USF2 Changelog and Wiki

x64x64 Fuck your SRKJoined: Posts: 3,187
edited August 22 in Fighting Game Discussion
This is a new list that will serve as a temp wiki for Ultra Street Fighter 2 until someone puts it up on the official SRK wiki. It's main purpose is to point out the differences between USF2 and Super Turbo. This list is drawn from the comments in the main USF2 thread here in FGD. I can't find anywhere else on the net seriously discussing this game. Please let me know if anything needs to be added and I will add it!

Main Differences:

-Based on the JPN ST rom (unverified but very likely Capcom used the Dreamcast ST port as a base like Sirlin did for HDR. Could also be based off of Hyper SF2). Gief's neutral headbutt auto-dizzies on hit in USF2, which only happens on the JPN versions of SF2.
-Runs at 1.35x speed of JPN Turbo 0. ST runs at 1.43x JPN Turbo 0. So 5.6% slower.
-It is speculated that different stages in ST run at different speeds (i.e. Gief and Honda stages are slower and Vega's stage is fast). This appears to be fixed now.
-Damage and stun are fixed instead of slightly variable like normal SF2.
-"Bugs" found in ST have been squashed. No moves are storable. Ken/Sagat/Dhalsim can do reversal supers. Moves that hit on the first frame (Blanka ball, Akuma air tatsu, Ken's HP SRK) are no longer 50/50 unblockable. Fireball characters are no longer able to get shorter recovery on MP and HP fireballs via kara cancel techniques. Chain or "Renda" canceling still works (i.e. cr.lk,cr.lk, xx super combo for Ken and V.Ken).
-Throw teching is now a neutral no-damage clash like later SF games. Command grabs cannot be teched. Unknown yet if throwboxes were made the same length or if every character has a different one like normal SF2. Also unknown if you could tech a normal throw if someone attempts a grab outside of the target's throw range.
-You can now throw someone out of a dizzy if the dizzy was caused by a normal or command throw. You usually only see this with Honda.
-Health bar no longer displays zero vitality while a character is alive. One pixel of health can ether equal one pixel of chip or zero life left making it impossible to differentiate between the two.
-Special move motions have more lenient timings (fixed input window like HDR) which makes certain moves easier/harder depending on what character you are using.
-Fireballs do a little more damage and throws do a little less damage across the board.
-Akuma is unlocked, meant to be used competitively, and is slightly towned down from his ST incarnation. Has raging demon super.
-Evil Ryu and Violent Ken are included.
-All characters except for Akuma/E.Ryu/V.Ken have the same fixed stun rates.
-Very slight "balance" changes have been made to certain characters.
-Other as-of-yet unexplained gameplay differences related to timing of moves.

Character Differences:

Ryu: No change. Fixed input window might mess up walkup SRK or walkup fireball as it did in HDR. Changed input for his knockdown red fireball.

Ken: Super can now be used as a reversal. Certain moves have easier inputs.

Chun-li: Super cannot be stored, making her a weaker character than in ST.

E. Honda: Super and ochio cannot be stored. Throw loops based off his HP grab no longer work (but do work with his HK grab still). Sumo Smash special move may have had hitboxes altered making it a lot more difficult to use it to go through fireballs. Ochio throw currently has a glitch that allows it to grab people out of non-throwable frames (like right after the super flash). Overall well worse than his ST iteration.

Blanka: No change.

Zangief: Easier input window allows for very easy walkup SPDs (hold forward, go forward down, down, down back, back, back up, punch). Green hand uses SRK motion. Two buttons allow for a lariat instead of three, messing up using the "piano" method for getting SPD ticks and reversals. Neutral HP headbutt insta-dizzies. MK kneedrop is bugged (treated like a LK move). Currently has a glitch that allows for normal throws to get SPD range. This can also be used to give Gief Super SPD range. Probably considered neutrally good as his ST counterpart (i.e. not good lol).

Guile: No change. Easier input windows allow for new combos involving super, flashkicks, and sonic booms.

Dhalsim: Super can be used as a reversal, making him better than his ST counterpart. Teleport reversal works correctly now (i.e. won't teleport you into the same place if done as a reversal). New inputs for yoga flame and upflame.

T Hawk: Based off N. Hawk, so shitty normals. Also cannot start a throw loop off of his HK throw, making him a lot worse than ST if that's possible. Easier input windows make walkup SPDs easier like with Gief. No longer has stray hurtbox trailing his crouching MP. Might be the worst character in the game.

Cammy: No change aside for easier input motion for hooligan roll and backfist.

Fei-long: No change. Easier chicken wing input.

Balrog: Easier input windows allow him to do stuff he couldn't do in ST, like follow up a dash upper into a dash sweep. Unknown if it really helps him that much right now. Can no longer get a safe jump throw loop off his throw on certain characters.

Deejay: No change.

Vega: Can't re-attach claw after losing it. Forced to climb his gate on his stage, making him a lot worse playing in Spain. Cannot store his flipkick by holding a back charge. Capcom said they made it so you can't juggle flipkick after landing a flipkick but it still works on wide hurtbox characters like Gief and Sagat.

Sagat: Based of N. Sagat from ST (so, pretty bad). Can use super as a reversal. Inputs changed for tiger knee.

Bison: HP Psycho Crusher only hits twice on block and stops close to the opponent instead of blowing past them.

Akuma: Can be dizzied. New input for red fireball. Takes more in damage and stun than the rest of the cast (moreso than E.Ryu/V.Ken). Cannot lock people in a corner with his HP multi-hit fireball. Ground tatsu can no longer go through projectiles. Possibly other nerfs from ST Akuma. Still top tier. Maybe even the best still.

V.Ken: Not in ST. Has a few attributes from N.Ken (crazy kicks, knee bash), O.Ken (invincible srks, better hadokens), and even HF Ken (HF style air tatsu). Has a wicked command dash that may or may not break the overall game balance. Jump arc is unlike any other character in the entire SF2 series. Walks faster than regular Ken. SRKs juggle like Akuma. Takes a lot more damage than the rest of the cast (second only to Akuma). Probably the best character in the game right now.

E.Ryu: Not in ST. Basically regular Ryu with a few new moves and less health. Differences include controllable normals (being able to use a close or far normal at your convenience, like Dhalsim). Has a new far reaching kick overhead. Has raging demon super. Walks faster than regular Ryu. Red fireballs hit multiple times like Akuma. SRKs and tatsus juggle like Akuma (SRKs don't hit 3 times like Akuma though). Currently doesn't have a juggle limit on air tatsus, which can make for easy juggle dizzies. Strangely SRKs are not fully invincible on the way up like Akuma or V.Ken.


Changes from HDR to USF2 detailed by user @Vance
Ryu

- Loses fake fireball (qcf+lk).

+ Increased damage of hadoken and shakunetsu hadoken.

Ken

- Input for crazy kicks changed to hcf+k, hcb+k and qcf+k instead of just qcf+k. Makes walkup tatsu impossible.

+/- Medium shoryuken now hits two times instead of one. Knocks down on second hit, not fully invulnerable on the way up.

- Hard shoryuken has shorter arc, may leave opponent standing if third hit does not connect.

+/- Reduced range on hard tatsumaki senpukyaku, but increased its speed and doubled its stun value.

- Throw traps from knee bash considerably less useful because of throw techs.

- Reduced range on medium tatsumaki senpukyaku.

+ Increased range on light tatsumaki senpukyaku.

+ Increased damage and range of mk throw (knee bash).

+ Increased damage of hadoken.


Guile

- Hard flash kick now travels high and up instead of far forward and diagonally up, with an extended hitbox to match medium and light flash kick.

+/- Upside down kick no longer an overhead, increased its priority, increased speed to 15 frames instead of 20 and reduced size of hurtbox.

+/- Super may not connect correctly all the time, charge d+df,f,uf+k option removed, damage increased substantially.

+ Increased damage of Sonic Boom.


E. Honda

- J.lk no longer hits sweeps.

- Throw traps considerably less useful because of throw techs.

- Distance traveled when steering j.hp left or right reduced.

- Can no longer "store" ochio throw by holding db after doing the controller motion, then pressing p when ready to do the throw

+ Doubled stun value of ochio throw.

+/- Hundred hand slap takes more button presses to come out, increased damage and priority.

- Super can now be countered by opponent's invulnerable move even if the first hit connects, no longer juggles for 50% (3-hits) from certain distances.

- Light headbutt no longer projectile invulnerable.


Blanka

- Electricity takes more button presses to use.

- Throw mixups and "roll into bite" considerably less useful because of throw techs.

+/- Horizontal rolling attack recovery time time increased, no longer gets damage penalty if hit out of it but much easier to punish even if it connects.

+/- Increased range of light and medium horizontal rolling attack.

- Increased startup and recovery time of rainbow roll, making it easy to hit Blanka out of it even if it connects.

+/- Can no longer hop with lp+lk, mp+mk or hp+hk, generates more super meter. Also decreased frames with foot invulnerability.

- Increased startup time and recovery time of super, can now be punished even if it connects, does not always knock down the opponent.


Zangief

- Hcb+f,p and hcf+b p shortcuts for spinning piledriver removed.

- Running grab and double suplex command changed to 360+k.

- Removed lp+lk and hp+hk shortcuts for lariats.

- Super motion changed to 720+p, making walkup super impractical.

- Added 4 frames of recovery time to green hand.

- Slowed down running bear grab.

- Kick lariat no longer foot invulnerable during first rotation.

- Punch lariat hitbox reduced so it no longer hits low attacks.

- Reduced hitbox on j.mp, no longer extends all the way down.

- Reduced hitbox on c.hp, making it a less viable anti-air.

- Can now hop with b+mp, f+mp or b+hp in addition to f+hp, slowed down significantly, increased hurtbox making it easier to get countered by low moves.


Chun Li

+/- Added new move: df+mk (backflip).

+/- Lightning legs take more button presses to use, increased damage and stun value significantly, increased priority slightly.

- Loses ability to "store" super, increased damage output.

+ Neckbreaker (df+hk) can now cross up in some situations, making it difficult to block.

- Spinning bird kick now travels forward instead of an arc.

- Can no longer do spinning bird kick after connecting with j.d+mk.

+ Increased damage of Kikoken.


Dhalsim

+ Increased range on yoga noogie (mp throw).

- Throw traps considerably less useful because of throw techs.

+ Damage increased on super, can no longer be thrown out of it, removed hurtbox at back of his head during super.

+ Increased meter gain from yoga flame and yoga blast.

- Yoga flame changed from qcb+p to hcf+p.

- Yoga blast changed from qcb+k tp hcb+k.

- Super motion changed to hcfx2+p instead of hcbx2+p.

- Yoga blast (upward flame) no longer travels upward.

+ Increased damage of yoga fire, yoga flame and yoga blast.


Cammy

- Spinning backfist no longer has projectile or lower body invulnerability, reduced hitbox on second hit.

- Spiral arrow less safe on block, must be carefully spaced to avoid punish.

+ Increased priority on light spiral arrow.

+ Cannon spike now safe on block.

+ Hitbox increased on j.mp.


Dee Jay

- Machine gun uppercut input changed; much more difficult to get all four hits unless you can easily piano all three punch buttons repeatedly.

- Machine gun uppercut no longer destroys fireballs.

+ Damage and stun values for machine gun uppercut increased significantly.

- Second hit of dread kicks much more difficult to connect, can now be countered easily if the first hit is blocked.

- Medium and hard dread kicks no longer go over low attacks.

+ Increased damage of Max Out.

Fei Long

- Input for Rekkukyaku (flying kicks) changed to hcf+k.

- Reduced range on Rekkaken. Also more difficult to connect all three punches in series.

+ Meter gains increased on Shienkyaku (flame kick) and Rekkukyaku.

+ Can combo into Rekkaken after Rekkukyaku.

+/- Reduced range on super, but head is no longer vulnerable during 4th and 5th hit.

+/- Light Rekkukyaku has less frames of partial invulnerability, making them more susceptible to fireballs, but they are now safe on block.

- Medium and hard Shienkyaku don't always knock down.

+ Increased priority and reduced recovery time of Shienkyaku.

- Can no longer juggle with Shienkyaku after Rekkukyaku.


T. Hawk

- Throw setups considerably less useful because of throw techs.

- Increased size of hurtbox when T. Hawk is standing still.

- Reduced hitbox on elbow drop, c.lp, j.mp, close s.lk, close s.hk, neutral j.lk, neutral j.mk and far s.mk.

- Reduced hitbox and damage of neutral j.hp, neutral j.hk, diagonal j.hp and diagonal j.hk.

- Reduced hitbox for far s.lk, can no longer be special canceled.

- Reduced hitbox, priority and reach of c.mk.

- Reduced active hitbox on c.mp.

- Reduced damage on close s.hp.

- Reduced priority and damage on s.hp.

+/- Reduced hitbox on second hit of c.hp, increased its horizonal range on both hits.

+/- Increased range on far s.hk, but does less damage and will miss some crouching characters.

- Reduced speed and damage of c.hk.

- Diagonal j.lk can not be cancelled.

- Body slam (j.d+hp) does less damage and no longer crosses up against all characters.

- All versions of Tomahawk Buster no longer guarantee knockdown on hit.

- Reduced invincibility and damage from medium and hard versions of Tomahawk Buster.

- No longer possible to do Mexican Typhoon with hcb,f+p or hcf,b+p.

- No longer possible to do Super with hcbx2,f+p or hcfx2,b+p.

+/- Condor dive knocks down, no longer safe on block, bounces further back on block or hit.

+ Reduced recovery time after Condor Dive, allowing T. Hawk to land before opponent.

+ Whiff animation no longer occurs after missed Mexican Typhoon.

+ T. Hawk falls faster and lands closer to opponent after connected Mexican Typhoon or Super.


Balrog

+ Increased throw range.

+ Increased super damage from 50% to 60%.

+ Low rush punch cancel into light headbutt is now safe on block.

+ Increased meter gain on headbutt and early levels of TAP.

+ Reduced recovery time on light and medium headbutt.

- Medium headbutt no longer projectile invincible.

- Throw traps considerably less useful because of throw techs.

- No longer possible to charge TAP by holding down two buttons instead of three.


Vega

+ Flying Barcelona Attack knocks down on hit.

- In Spain stage, Vega will climb the cage instead of bouncing off the wall during the Flying Barcelona Attack.

- Removed fake wall dive (charge d+u,k, press k again when touching wall).

- No longer possible to combo scarlet terror into scarlet terror except against larger characters.

- Can no longer pick up the claw if dropped.


Sagat

+/- Increased damage and recovery time on all tiger shots.

- Reduced range of super, does not always knock down on hit.

- Reduced damage on hard tiger uppercut, now hits multiple times.

- Can no longer juggle multiple tiger knees.

+ Can now cancel second hit of s.lk.

- Can not cancel c.mp.


M. Bison

- Removed invulnerability frames in beginning of Devil's Reverse.

- Removed fake slide (df+hk).

- Tick and cheese throws considerably less useful because of throw techs.

+/- Hard psycho crusher must be blocked twice, lands closer to opponent.

- Removed juggling property of neutral j.mp (diagonal j.mp still juggles).

- Reduced priority on s.lp.

Akuma

+ Air fireball (zankuu hadouken) no longer causes hop effect, travels the length of the screen instead of a sharp downward angle.

+ Increased distance where gou hadouken causes massive knockback.

- Input for Shakunetsu Hadoken changed from qcb+p to hcb+p.

- Input window for shun goku satsu (Raging Demon) is noticeably more difficult.

- Increased minimum height for zankuu Hadoken.

+ Increased damage of gou Hadoken, shakunetsu hadoken and zankuu hadoken.

Evil Ryu

- Has 20% less HP and easier to dizzy than Ryu or Ken.

- Also doesn't have fake fireball (Like Ultra Ryu).

+ Increased forward walk speed.

+/- Loses Shinkuu Hadoken but gains Raging Demon (Shun Goku Satsu) super.

+ Air and ground Tatsumaki senpukyaku can now juggle into other tatsus or shoryuken.

+ Greatly increased damage of ground medium or hard tatsumaki senpukyaku when both hits come from outstretched leg instead of the knee.

+/- Reduced damage of medium shakunetsu hadoken, increased damage of hard shakunetsu hadoken. Both versions result in stunning animation.

+ New move: overhead kick (f+mk).

+ New teleport move: Ashura Senku (dp or rdp + two punches or two kicks).

+ Can do close versions of normals by pressing b+attack button. Expanded hitboxes on back normals.


Violent Ken

- Has 20% less HP and easier to dizzy than Ryu or Ken.

+ Increased walk speed.

+/- Jump speed increased. Violent Ken rises and falls faster than any other shoto.

+ Can juggle with medium shoryuken if hitting opponent out of the air.

+ Increased damage on ground and air tatsumaki senpukyaku, knocks down on hit.

+ Changed trajectory of air tatsumaki senpukyaku horizontally towards opponent, even when jumping backwards.

+ New command dash move: Rasetsukyaku (dp+k).

+ New move: Inazuma kick (f+mk).

+/- New super move: Shinbu Messatsu (qcfx2+k). Replaces shoryu reppa for a move with more range and combo versatility but less damage.

More to come soon!


Post edited by x64 on
ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
Fightcade/USF2: x64
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Comments

  • Big OBig O Joined: Posts: 381
    I just wanted to point out a couple things.

    The game speed is 1.35x Turbo 0 according to the battle tactics video. ST's normal game speed is one that's 1.43x Turbo 0.

    Zangief's MK Knee Drop is changed (bugged?) and doesn't have medium aerial hitstun/blockstun anymore. It is a treated like a jab or short aerial on block/crouching hit for some reason.

    I don't think MGU is any easier than ST and the damage/stun is still at the same crazy touch of death levels (62 damage/18 stun), so I don't think anything actually changed with this move.

    Vega can still juggle HK Flip Kick for 3 hits on some characters. I don't play Vega, so I wouldn't know if it was character specific before or worked only on jump ins, but I have been juggled for 3 hits before as Zangief. I randomly tried it on Sagat and it still works on him too.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    Thanks. For some reason the MGU seemed easier to me. Not nearly as easy as HDR DJ but definitely easier than ST. Maybe due to the speed and fixed input change?
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • TelMarineTelMarine Joined: Posts: 37
    Thanks for starting this. It's disappointing that it has to be community sourced and not get a list of changes from Capcom.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Thanks for starting this. It's disappointing that it has to be community sourced and not get a list of changes from Capcom.

    We were expecting to have to do this with the lack of info coming from Capcom during development.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • TelMarineTelMarine Joined: Posts: 37
    Just thought of a change:
    The health bar. They changed it so if you have 1 hit left (meaning blocking a special move you'd get KO'd) it still shows yellow on the bar instead of the bar being full. This has really thrown me off because I can't tell how many hits the person has left now, it looks too similar. Maybe they should enlarge the health bar because it's too difficult at the moment imo.

    Also, when in the corner and getting a knockdown where the opponent hits the side of the stage, it feels like the get up time is slower. Like, they stay on the ground for an extra few frames or something. Is that the same? I don't recall it being like that in standard ST.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Just thought of a change:
    The health bar. They changed it so if you have 1 hit left (meaning blocking a special move you'd get KO'd) it still shows yellow on the bar instead of the bar being full. This has really thrown me off because I can't tell how many hits the person has left now, it looks too similar. Maybe they should enlarge the health bar because it's too difficult at the moment imo.

    Good point. Adding.
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Also, when in the corner and getting a knockdown where the opponent hits the side of the stage, it feels like the get up time is slower. Like, they stay on the ground for an extra few frames or something. Is that the same? I don't recall it being like that in standard ST.

    Yep, its the same.

    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • kedawakedawa . Joined: Posts: 401
    Aren't throws also different somehow?
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    kedawa wrote: »
    Aren't throws also different somehow?

    Durp. You're right. Adding throw tech.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 462
    x64 wrote: »
    Based on the JPN ST rom (unverified but very likely Capcom used the Dreamcast ST port as a base like Sirlin did for HDR).

    *Proudly owns Dreamcast ST*

  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    edited August 2
    7 5 0 wrote: »
    x64 wrote: »
    Based on the JPN ST rom (unverified but very likely Capcom used the Dreamcast ST port as a base like Sirlin did for HDR).

    *Proudly owns Dreamcast ST*

    I have the toodles disk with it on there. I'd love to actually own it but last time I checked even used copies were going for $100+ lol.

    Edit: Good lord some are going for $300+. WTF!? Just buy a CPS2 kit at that point.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Weak button fireball recovery bugs removed for shotos (just like the default DC ST & HSF2 ST mode).

    Going to test Sagat when I play it again he's unique cause not only whiffing weak normals change the recovery but also the previous strength tiger shots change the recovery of the next one.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    Weak button fireball recovery bugs removed for shotos (just like the default DC ST & HSF2 ST mode).

    Could you explain this bug? Is this the one where you can give HP fireballs LP recovery?
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    x64 wrote: »
    Weak button fireball recovery bugs removed for shotos (just like the default DC ST & HSF2 ST mode).

    Could you explain this bug? Is this the one where you can give HP fireballs LP recovery?

    Yes that's the one
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,261
    x64 wrote: »
    7 5 0 wrote: »
    x64 wrote: »
    Based on the JPN ST rom (unverified but very likely Capcom used the Dreamcast ST port as a base like Sirlin did for HDR).

    *Proudly owns Dreamcast ST*

    I have the toodles disk with it on there. I'd love to actually own it but last time I checked even used copies were going for $100+ lol.

    Edit: Good lord some are going for $300+. WTF!? Just buy a CPS2 kit at that point.

    Uhhh yeah about that ST board...$600 easy.

    ST - Gotta pay to play!

    Thanks for putting this list together.

  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,223
    x64 wrote: »
    7 5 0 wrote: »
    x64 wrote: »
    Based on the JPN ST rom (unverified but very likely Capcom used the Dreamcast ST port as a base like Sirlin did for HDR).

    *Proudly owns Dreamcast ST*

    I have the toodles disk with it on there. I'd love to actually own it but last time I checked even used copies were going for $100+ lol.

    Edit: Good lord some are going for $300+. WTF!? Just buy a CPS2 kit at that point.

    Uhhh yeah about that ST board...$600 easy.

    ST - Gotta pay to play!

    Thanks for putting this list together.

    Damn when did ST boards become that high? Got both an A and B board for just 200 bucks a few years ago.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    Log for Shin Akuma?
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 6
    Hi x64!

    For those who care about tiers I wrote an article on that at https://askvance.wordpress.com/2017/08/04/what-is-the-latest-tier-list-for-ultra-street-fighter-ii-august-4-2017/ based off of character performance online.

    From best to worst it's

    A+: Ryu
    A: Boxer, Chun Li, Guile, Dee Jay, Violent Ken
    B: Zangief, Ken, E. Honda, Akuma, Claw, Dhalsim
    C: Fei Long, Dictator, Evil Ryu, Sagat
    D : Cammy, Blanka
    F: T. Hawk

    The system changes, balance changes, Akuma and the new challengers have definitely shook up the meta. people from Super Turbo or HD Remix expectating to get to the top of the ranks without adjusting their strategy will be in for a surprise.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    How is Akuma not top? Isn't he like ST Akuma?
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 7
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    How is Akuma not top? Isn't he like ST Akuma?

    Despite his reputation, Akuma is not dominating the online charts.

    One of the biggest differences betwen ST Akuma (as described in the ST Wiki) is that U.Akuma's tatsu is not projectile invulnerable (except for Sonic booms and low tiger shots). Also ST Akuma is nothing like Shin Akuma, so he can be dizzied, and his hurtboxes are far less generous. U.Akuma also loses to Violent Ken. I'd guess that match is 6-4 or 7-3 in favor of Violent Ken.

    Shin Akuma can't be played in ranked or local wireless matches, which is a relief because his damage and hurtboxes would obsolete the rest of the cast.
    Post edited by Vance on
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Add this Sagat can cancel 2-hit standing short into super wasn't possible in ST or HSF2
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    edited August 9
    Vance wrote: »
    Hi x64!

    For those who care about tiers I wrote an article on that at https://askvance.wordpress.com/2017/08/04/what-is-the-latest-tier-list-for-ultra-street-fighter-ii-august-4-2017/ based off of character performance online.

    From best to worst it's

    A+: Ryu
    A: Boxer, Chun Li, Guile, Dee Jay, Violent Ken
    B: Zangief, Ken, E. Honda, Akuma, Claw, Dhalsim
    C: Fei Long, Dictator, Evil Ryu, Sagat
    D : Cammy, Blanka
    F: T. Hawk

    The system changes, balance changes, Akuma and the new challengers have definitely shook up the meta. people from Super Turbo or HD Remix expectating to get to the top of the ranks without adjusting their strategy will be in for a surprise.

    I don't know if I would shake out a tier list based off a few months of player performance on a system most serious players likely don't own. Ryu being top is likely because he plays exactly like ST Ryu and is the most commonly used character. Not counting the 3 new characters, I'd say the tier list is pretty much the same as ST with the exception of the good Old characters missing and Honda and Chun dropping a spot or two. V.Ken seems unstoppable in the right hands right now.
    Add this Sagat can cancel 2-hit standing short into super wasn't possible in ST or HSF2

    Done and done.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 9
    x64 wrote: »

    Not counting the 3 new characters, I'd say the tier list is pretty much the same as ST with the exception of the good Old characters missing and Honda and Chun dropping a spot or two. V.Ken seems unstoppable in the right hands right now.

    It's funny you bring this up. The ST Wiki cites a tier list for Super Turbo from nohoho's blog in 2008, which was compiled from character experts and only tiers the "new" version is as follows:

    Dhalsim
    Boxer
    Claw
    Ryu
    Chun Li
    Guile
    Dee Jay
    Dictator
    E. Honda
    Sagat
    Ken
    Fei Long
    Zangief
    Blanka
    Cammy
    T. Hawk

    While not the same order as the online results, there is some overlap (Sagat near the bottom, no drastic movements except Dhalsim and Claw who lost tools in Ultra). By the time all of this shakes up, the online list and this ST list could be even more similar.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Speaking of tiers, does anybody still believe Evil Ryu is god tier? This is a common opinion I've read from serious players who don't play USF2 seriously, and after trying him for 100 online ranked matches or so I think he's in the bottom 5.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • Big OBig O Joined: Posts: 381
    Vance wrote: »
    Speaking of tiers, does anybody still believe Evil Ryu is god tier? This is a common opinion I've read from serious players who don't play USF2 seriously, and after trying him for 100 online ranked matches or so I think he's in the bottom 5.

    He's Ryu with better walk speed, better normals, and way better tatsus that juggle into HP DP for tons of damage (or dizzy). He's weaker than V. Ken and Akuma, but he's still up there imo. Overall he's a slight upgrade from Ryu. The only thing you miss playing as E. Ryu is Shinkuu Hadouken.
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 9
    Big O wrote: »
    He's Ryu with better walk speed, better normals, and way better tatsus that juggle into HP DP for tons of damage (or dizzy). He's weaker than V. Ken and Akuma, but he's still up there imo. Overall he's a slight upgrade from Ryu. The only thing you miss playing as E. Ryu is Shinkuu Hadouken.

    My thoughts on Evil Ryu:

    B+hp is a great anti-air attack, so good that it can catch Chun Li's j.lk clean. It can also stuff a lot of special moves, like psycho crushers and sumo headbutts.

    B+hk will hit attacks that go on top of Evil Ryu's head.

    I also like b+mk for catching some special moves, like blanka balls and scissor kicks. Neutral mk is Evil Ryu's best normals for catching Buffalo Headbutt.

    C.mp is excellent and can catch moves other normals won't. But if you're playing a shoto, you knew that already.

    C.mk has great range. Learn to alternate low kicks so you can control the distance between you and the opponent after a blocked combo. C.mk xx lk tatsu xx throw is also pretty fun.

    C.hk into hadoken is especially handy for the distance it builds. I feel like the distance after that is the perfect distance for Evil Ryu to attack.

    Besides f+mk, f+mp makes for a great overhead. Both can lead to sweep (example: f+mk, c.mp, c.hk on crouching opponents), and cancelling that sweep to other special moves lead to other setups.

    You must learn to use these normals because of the lack of invulnerability on DPs. Wakeup DP loses if the opponent tries their own invulnerable move. Note that there is no damage difference between Evil Ryu and U.Ryu's shoryuken.

    Like USF4, Evil Ryu's teleport is slow and easy to hit even if you try a read. It's better to use Raging Demon to set up combos, like LiangHiuBBB demonstrates in his video.

    Evil Ryu can time a meaty fireball to force the opponent to block three hadokens, just like U.Ryu. This is a big deal because Evil Ryu needs all the damage he can get to open the opponent up.

    Evil Ryu's easiest kill combo is j.hk, c.mk xx mk tatsu xx shoryuken (dizzy) short teleport, c.mk xx mk tatsu xx shoryuken. This is the easiest 100% combo in the game and the j.hk can come from either side. You won't be able to fool opponents with this twice though so you'll have to learn other ways to deal damage to be more consistent.

    Air tatsu is not gimmicky. Learning when to sneak those in and what strength to use to chain more together is essential to leveling up.

    I also think Evil Ryu is one of Violent Ken's worst matches. It creates an interesting dynamic where Violent Ken beats Akuma, while Evil Ryu beats Violent Ken. I'm not too sure about Evil Ryu vs. Akuma though. I think a more disciplined Evil Ryu player can make that match even, but I get salty way too easily.

    Landing Raging demon is worth losing shinkuu hadoken, and works best if your opponent is stuck guessing high-low. Or if you can get in one of the setups from the combo videos posted all over the Internet.

    That's all I got. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Post edited by Vance on
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • rcaidorcaido Dynamic Bayside Duo Joined: Posts: 8,420
    Vance wrote: »
    Hi x64!

    For those who care about tiers I wrote an article on that at https://askvance.wordpress.com/2017/08/04/what-is-the-latest-tier-list-for-ultra-street-fighter-ii-august-4-2017/ based off of character performance online.

    From best to worst it's

    A+: Ryu
    A: Boxer, Chun Li, Guile, Dee Jay, Violent Ken
    B: Zangief, Ken, E. Honda, Akuma, Claw, Dhalsim
    C: Fei Long, Dictator, Evil Ryu, Sagat
    D : Cammy, Blanka
    F: T. Hawk

    The system changes, balance changes, Akuma and the new challengers have definitely shook up the meta. people from Super Turbo or HD Remix expectating to get to the top of the ranks without adjusting their strategy will be in for a surprise.

    Uhh Akuma is top its not even close...
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think Akuma is still in the top spot if we consider the stay safe hit and run strategy thanks to the Air FB. I played so many Akuma's and the most annoying players use him like a buffed up O.Ryu with Air FB as a main tool for zoning.

    He does have a major weakness now lowest health/stun and dizzy.
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think Akuma is still in the top spot if we consider the stay safe hit and run strategy thanks to the Air FB. I played so many Akuma's and the most annoying players use him like a buffed up O.Ryu with Air FB as a main tool for zoning.

    If Akuma has meter, that's when his air FBs are most annoying, since blocking a fireball will get you killed by a raging demon while you're still in block stun. The only answer I've found is to take the damage from the FB since that will make the demon whiff.

    Because of the air FBs, I also think Akuma vs. T. Hawk is probably one of the hardest matchups in the game. It makes me thankful that I'm not a T. Hawk main.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • BurnYourEgoBurnYourEgo Ishikawa don't care about your weeabullshit avatar. Joined: Posts: 1,997
    edited August 9
    Yeah, I don't think you'd get a lot of consensus on that tier list. From the people that have played the game on the No Honor Crew Facebook group, there's a very high consensus that the new shotos are busted, Honda is worse in every conceivable way in both his bad and already good match-ups. Being able to tech out of holds hurts some characters immensely, especially Blanka and the Sim vs. Claw fight. This game is pretty much DOA from a competitive standpoint.
    Steam: BurnYourEgo: Terribly playing KOFXIII and Xrd, want to learn Skullgirls
    Fightcade:Bathtub_Leviathan: ST, maybe 3s
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, I don't think you'd get a lot of consensus on that tier list. From the people that have played the game on the No Honor Crew Facebook group, there's a very high consensus that the new shotos are busted, Honda is worse in every conceivable way in both his bad and already good match-ups. Being able to tech out of holds hurts some characters immensely, especially Blanka and the Sim vs. Claw fight. This game is pretty much DOA from a competitive standpoint.

    Tbh, I don't remember any version of DOA where people complained about characters being busted as much as the new shotos/Akuma in USF2.

    T. Hawk is garbage tier in this game imo. If he wasn't in the game Blanka would easily be the worst character.

    Where is the No Honor Crew Facebook group? Any place where I can talk/vent about USF2 is therapeutic at best.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,868
    Yeah, I don't think you'd get a lot of consensus on that tier list. From the people that have played the game on the No Honor Crew Facebook group, there's a very high consensus that the new shotos are busted, Honda is worse in every conceivable way in both his bad and already good match-ups. Being able to tech out of holds hurts some characters immensely, especially Blanka and the Sim vs. Claw fight. This game is pretty much DOA from a competitive standpoint.

    He's not making a real tier list any more than taking the top BP from SFIV would make one. I have no clue why he's calling it a tier list even
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Can't speak for SFIV. The ranking system in USF2, and the penalties for ragequitting in USF2, do a great job of measuring how hard players push the game's characters.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • TelMarineTelMarine Joined: Posts: 37
    Vance wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think you'd get a lot of consensus on that tier list. From the people that have played the game on the No Honor Crew Facebook group, there's a very high consensus that the new shotos are busted, Honda is worse in every conceivable way in both his bad and already good match-ups. Being able to tech out of holds hurts some characters immensely, especially Blanka and the Sim vs. Claw fight. This game is pretty much DOA from a competitive standpoint.

    Tbh, I don't remember any version of DOA where people complained about characters being busted as much as the new shotos/Akuma in USF2.

    T. Hawk is garbage tier in this game imo. If he wasn't in the game Blanka would easily be the worst character.

    Where is the No Honor Crew Facebook group? Any place where I can talk/vent about USF2 is therapeutic at best.

    Pretty sure he meant DOA as in "dead on arrival" not "Dead Or Alive" the fighting game.
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You're a step ahead of me with your Ken and a step ahead of me in the forums. I tip my hat to you, sir.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    edited August 13
    Add this Sagat can cancel 2-hit standing short into super wasn't possible in ST or HSF2

    Whoops. It turns out N.Sagat can do that. Check the ST wiki: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Sagat_(ST)
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    x64 wrote: »
    Add this Sagat can cancel 2-hit standing short into super wasn't possible in ST or HSF2

    Whoops. It turns out N.Sagat can do that. Check the ST wiki: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Sagat_(ST)

    Then I guess someone needs to teach me the secret for the 2-hit cancel in OG ST (can do 1 hit) it's really easy in USF2.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    Just need an old sagat in USF2 to show these scrubs a lesson
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 303
    First I want to say thanks, I was looking for a changelog and appreciate the effort, please keep up the good work. I also have a request; if possible could someone list the changes from an HDR perspective? I am kinda pissed they didn't keep some aspects of that game or allow it as a mode like HDR allowed ST. It is the version I am most familiar with, and I'm probably not alone in that.

    As for the tiers, I'd still put Akuma at the top, with V.Ken & E.Ryu trailing behind as 2nd and 3rd, respectively. E.Ryu seems to take more work to use effectively than V.Ken but their results are both outstanding.

    I think Chun is absolute trash now, stored Super helped her immensely, as did her grab game. Upkicks always sucked, and now she has that shitty backflip kick you gotta be wary of using, not to mention she lost her stomp into SBK for "escape" (didn't really work but it was better than nothing). Also, I like that SBK is better for getting Super faster now but it had some interesting gimmick utility which will be missed.

    Deejay's MGU seems useless now, unless I'm missing something, because I can't combo into it now to save my life. It just hits once and leaves me open. Disappointing since he was my secondary. I think Vega, Honda, and Blanka seem to be indirectly nerfed since their grab game was great. Still above the likes of Chun/Cammy.

    Haven't really tried Bison yet too much but I imagine his grab game is in the toilet, and he relied on it heavily, at least I did. J.mp seems nerfed, not sure it juggles now...

    The game is overall worse than HDR imo, and depending on who you main it may be worse than ST. As a Chun main I would probably prefer ST. Still, fun game. Hopefully another update or version comes along though.
  • VanceVance Dial down the center Joined: Posts: 153 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Random wrote: »
    Deejay's MGU seems useless now, unless I'm missing something, because I can't combo into it now to save my life. It just hits once and leaves me open. Disappointing since he was my secondary. I think Vega, Honda, and Blanka seem to be indirectly nerfed since their grab game was great. Still above the likes of Chun/Cammy.

    While trying to research how to get all 4 hits for MGU I bumped into this YouTube video, which basically says to rapidly press fp,mp,lp,mp in that order repeatedly.

    I have deemed this maneuver impossible on a Joycon or Pro Controller and only do the MGU by mistake whenever the Pro Controller reads an up input while trying to do a Max Out, which is a more common problem than you'd think.
    Ultra Street Fighter 2 player
    Used to play Street Fighter V before Season 2
    Played a lot of HD Remix
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 303
    Vance wrote: »
    Random wrote: »
    Deejay's MGU seems useless now, unless I'm missing something, because I can't combo into it now to save my life. It just hits once and leaves me open. Disappointing since he was my secondary. I think Vega, Honda, and Blanka seem to be indirectly nerfed since their grab game was great. Still above the likes of Chun/Cammy.

    While trying to research how to get all 4 hits for MGU I bumped into this YouTube video, which basically says to rapidly press fp,mp,lp,mp in that order repeatedly.

    I have deemed this maneuver impossible on a Joycon or Pro Controller and only do the MGU by mistake whenever the Pro Controller reads an up input while trying to do a Max Out, which is a more common problem than you'd think.

    Wow, that sounds annoying, and it does seem impossible on Joycons. I try to play casually since all I HAVE are Joycons but my (overly) competitive spirit kicks in lol. I feel like a noob, jumping all over the place, can't even reliably special, let alone super or even block...I wish I had a real dpad.
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