MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

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  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    I think Ghost Rider is good because it's early. Nemesis and Haggar may have a place but it's difficult to say. I think characters like them will always blow people up and catch them slipping. I don't think they can be paired up as a team.

    Thanos is pretty *meh* I don't have a full opinion on him just yet but I don't think he has a lot going for him.

    All of these characters have low mobility and limited options in comparison to the cast however it seems like they all have at least something abusable going for them. Thanos being the only exception. I had my feeling that Thanos was the worst character in the game and I haven't seen anything to change that.
  • KnighT aMKnighT aM Joined: Posts: 33
    I think Ghost Rider is good because it's early. Nemesis and Haggar may have a place but it's difficult to say. I think characters like them will always blow people up and catch them slipping. I don't think they can be paired up as a team.

    Thanos is pretty *meh* I don't have a full opinion on him just yet but I don't think he has a lot going for him.

    All of these characters have low mobility and limited options in comparison to the cast however it seems like they all have at least something abusable going for them. Thanos being the only exception. I had my feeling that Thanos was the worst character in the game and I haven't seen anything to change that.
    I don't see how he can be the worst in the game. He is the most mobile big body with air dash and teleport and has crazy damage with palm loops and air super. I think him and Haggar are the 2 best big bodies.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,992 mod
    edited September 26
    Not yet. Japanese starting to break the game already.

    Luckily you can counter switch out of that. Otherwise I guess either Spiderman's web lob or the ice causes a combo to keep going with very little damage/hit stun deterioration. Interesting to see that other storms can go wild with hits and damage without dropping out.

    Speaking of Japanese, BAS has picked up the game. Can't wait to see what he does with A-Groove Time Stone (or whatever stone he picks). BAS is one of those players who's good at breaking stuff and finding scummy shit, both in CvS2 and XvSF. Can't wait to see what he comes up with.
  • straycatstraycat Joined: Posts: 48
    How are you guys feeling about Thor? Haven't had much time to play the game but he seems a lot more viable this time around.
  • wakalakawakalaka Joined: Posts: 160
    I think y'all are sleeping on mind surge too much. I think it will be one of the stronger stones as time goes on. One full combo leading into an untechable air command grab that leads to death may be pretty common in the future.

    I feel like everyones overlooking mind surge in favor of mind storm but I think it's the surge that's strong and the storm that is sub-par.

    I think mind stone may be my endgame stone but for now I'm a filthy reality stone user (mainly so I don't have to deal with other reality stone users)
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,893
    wakalaka wrote: »
    I think y'all are sleeping on mind surge too much. I think it will be one of the stronger stones as time goes on. One full combo leading into an untechable air command grab that leads to death may be pretty common in the future.

    I feel like everyones overlooking mind surge in favor of mind storm but I think it's the surge that's strong and the storm that is sub-par.

    I think mind stone may be my endgame stone but for now I'm a filthy reality stone user (mainly so I don't have to deal with other reality stone users)

    I think it's being slept on as well. 20 frame command grab isn't bad when you consider it might as well be a 20 frame overhead... people can't react to those easily so I don't see the mindsurge command grab being reacted to that easily. People may mash out of it but then you treat them like you would anyone with a command grab and frame trap them.

    The thing about its command grab is that it can be canceled into and it can be on a character that doesn't normally have access to a command grab. There will be a lot of setups for it. I was using it in training mode today and I don't see it as slow. It's the same speed as parasols overhead in skullgirls and that thing opens people up all day and that game has less shit going on and less input delay.

    With counter switch being so viable right now I see that stone getting some major use if for that alone.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,893
    Lol, I just realized you can mind grab on the ground, tag cancel, then command grab the air for an unblockable...

    If they stay on the ground they get grabbed, if they jump they get grabbed. Will have to press a button to hit the ground grab... but if the ground grab is canceled into from something then most of the command grabs startup will be hidden in the opponents hitstun making it a very hard to escape situation.

    Both fortunately and unfortunately though, most combos in the game are juggles which means setting this particular type of unblockable up won't come easy since you basically need a standing opponent.

    This is a skullgirls style reset against a grounded opponent and there are lots of branching options to work with.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,098
    Dime wrote: »
    Lol, I just realized you can mind grab on the ground, tag cancel, then command grab the air for an unblockable...

    If they stay on the ground they get grabbed, if they jump they get grabbed. Will have to press a button to hit the ground grab... but if the ground grab is canceled into from something then most of the command grabs startup will be hidden in the opponents hitstun making it a very hard to escape situation.

    Both fortunately and unfortunately though, most combos in the game are juggles which means setting this particular type of unblockable up won't come easy since you basically need a standing opponent.

    This is a skullgirls style reset against a grounded opponent and there are lots of branching options to work with.

    That's an interesting train of thought. You don't even need Mind Stone for it if your team comes with appropriate command grabs.
  • KJunkKJunk Joined: Posts: 2,964
    I'd agree that Mind seems weaker than the others at the moment, but it still seems viable to me for teams that can use meter to take control of neutral. Mind Storm starts to function like Reality or Space storm at that point if you have permanent orbs/sougenmou or whatever.

    Underlooked aspect of Mind Surge, though the combo after is heavily damage scaled, it is not hit-stun scaled like many grab starters are. That means you can still build 1.3+ bars or whatever on the resulting combo.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    KJunk wrote: »
    I'd agree that Mind seems weaker than the others at the moment, but it still seems viable to me for teams that can use meter to take control of neutral. Mind Storm starts to function like Reality or Space storm at that point if you have permanent orbs/sougenmou or whatever.

    Underlooked aspect of Mind Surge, though the combo after is heavily damage scaled, it is not hit-stun scaled like many grab starters are. That means you can still build 1.3+ bars or whatever on the resulting combo.

    That ties in well to the whole meter building aspect of the stone. The grab is essentially free meter build if you don't go for some beat the scaling reset

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • double Fdouble F Joined: Posts: 667
    KJunk wrote: »
    Underlooked aspect of Mind Surge, though the combo after is heavily damage scaled, it is not hit-stun scaled like many grab starters are. That means you can still build 1.3+ bars or whatever on the resulting combo.

    that's good to know. cause the hitstun scaling on command grabs is so severe you can barely get a launch abc etc. at least with Mind surge you can combo long enough to position them for reset.

  • double Fdouble F Joined: Posts: 667
    edited September 26
    straycat wrote: »
    How are you guys feeling about Thor? Haven't had much time to play the game but he seems a lot more viable this time around.

    He's definitely way better / faster than UMvC3. But he doesn't seem quite on par with the elite flyers (Ultron, Cap Marvel, Nova) cause his normals are a bit slower, he doesn't have a rapid-fire jab and his flight startup is too slow for flight combos.

    his tri-dash rushdown with LK is legit though. and he's got a great reset with his new QCF+K (the wallbounce overhead one). I saw Keits doing "unblockable" resets with it by tagging in Dante to hit low at the same time.

    only other weird thing is he doesn't really have projectiles anymore. his Mighty Spark can be double tapped to toss the hammer, but you can't spam it like the old Spark
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    KnighT aM wrote: »
    I think Ghost Rider is good because it's early. Nemesis and Haggar may have a place but it's difficult to say. I think characters like them will always blow people up and catch them slipping. I don't think they can be paired up as a team.

    Thanos is pretty *meh* I don't have a full opinion on him just yet but I don't think he has a lot going for him.

    All of these characters have low mobility and limited options in comparison to the cast however it seems like they all have at least something abusable going for them. Thanos being the only exception. I had my feeling that Thanos was the worst character in the game and I haven't seen anything to change that.
    I don't see how he can be the worst in the game. He is the most mobile big body with air dash and teleport and has crazy damage with palm loops and air super. I think him and Haggar are the 2 best big bodies.

    I don't believe that the increased mobility he has over nemesis and haggar makes him better than them. If this was a game where we didn't have flight annd super jumps he'd be awesome. He doesn't have any air air ok specials. I don't believe he has an armor on his normals. Thanos is best when his opponent is in the corner and his palm loops work. His normals seem lacking in comparison to haggar and nemesis. Also his teleport always crosses up unless in the corner. I think Thanos has very limited or few options in neutral. With potentially mediocre normals and no armor.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,873
    Thanos has a fireball that shuts down the the grounded horizontal level of play with, teleports, big ass normals on air dash for offense, able to force no-roll resets in the corner, and has the highest solo damage in the game.

    So yeah even if he ain't tops he ain't bad.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited September 26
    At minimum Thanos will likely be a strong support character as he has quite a few moves that are really oppressive when tagged into with other characters. I think he's definitely one of the characters that's designed to support other characters more than purely be a strong point character. His light kara command grab sets up full combos when tag canceled right before it hits.


    His titan's shield has pretty good durability vs other projectiles and the HK version throws out a huge hit box that can set up combos very easily for a tagged in character. His f+HK is a solid ranged projectile that causes a hard knockdown and easy combo conversions off a tag. Emperor's Stance also puts out a big hit box that covers AA or ground with easy conversions on hit.

    He may not have any air ok specials, but he has teleports that put him in the air, an air dash and an air OK super that has a ridiculously large hit box and does 4100 damage if it hits. He has good tools to command the air and you can't spend too much time in the air against him without putting yourself in danger.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,873
    edited September 26
    Everytime thanos does his air super unless you already burned up your ground bounce he gets free qcf+hp into either a jab/tag/lvl3, or he can just go cr.lk into lk fireball for more pressure as well.
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    At minimum Thanos will likely be a strong support character as he has quite a few moves that are really oppressive when tagged into with other characters. I think he's definitely one of the characters that's designed to support other characters more than purely be a strong point character. His light kara command grab sets up full combos when tag canceled right before it hits.


    His titan's shield has pretty good durability vs other projectiles and the HK version throws out a huge hit box that can set up combos very easily for a tagged in character. His f+HK is a solid ranged projectile that causes a hard knockdown and easy combo conversions off a tag. Emperor's Stance also puts out a big hit box that covers AA or ground with easy conversions on hit.

    He may not have any air ok specials, but he has teleports that put him in the air, an air dash and an air OK super that has a ridiculously large hit box and does 4100 damage if it hits. He has good tools to command the air and you can't spend too much time in the air against him without putting yourself in danger.

    The durability isn't that good on the move. Loses to beams and any piercing projectiles. Can stop stuff like Arthur daggers and lances ryus hadokuen prob morg and chun fire balls too. So it prob just bets stuff that can be reflected.
  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,708
    wakalaka wrote: »
    I think y'all are sleeping on mind surge too much. I think it will be one of the stronger stones as time goes on. One full combo leading into an untechable air command grab that leads to death may be pretty common in the future.

    I feel like everyones overlooking mind surge in favor of mind storm but I think it's the surge that's strong and the storm that is sub-par.

    I think mind stone may be my endgame stone but for now I'm a filthy reality stone user (mainly so I don't have to deal with other reality stone users)

    There's the plink tag throw d3v's friens found out in the demo that might make what you said only have the untechable part as an advantage.
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    At minimum Thanos will likely be a strong support character as he has quite a few moves that are really oppressive when tagged into with other characters. I think he's definitely one of the characters that's designed to support other characters more than purely be a strong point character. His light kara command grab sets up full combos when tag canceled right before it hits.


    His titan's shield has pretty good durability vs other projectiles and the HK version throws out a huge hit box that can set up combos very easily for a tagged in character. His f+HK is a solid ranged projectile that causes a hard knockdown and easy combo conversions off a tag. Emperor's Stance also puts out a big hit box that covers AA or ground with easy conversions on hit.

    He may not have any air ok specials, but he has teleports that put him in the air, an air dash and an air OK super that has a ridiculously large hit box and does 4100 damage if it hits. He has good tools to command the air and you can't spend too much time in the air against him without putting yourself in danger.

    The durability isn't that good on the move. Loses to beams and any piercing projectiles. Can stop stuff like Arthur daggers and lances ryus hadokuen prob morg and chun fire balls too. So it prob just bets stuff that can be reflected.

    You gotta go in training mode. If you put the LK shield out early enough it beats Iron Man's HP unibeam and continues to hit him for at least 2 of the hits. The LK one is so durable that it requires both beams from Strange's HP bolts to land in order to remove it from the screen.

    Then you have the HK shield which from what I'm seeing is nothing short of ridiculous. It's basically a projectile reflector so it will shut down any projectile. It even beats SUPER projectiles like Strange's Spell of Vishanti. Counters them, blasts the opponent for wall bounced HKC then go HAM with tagged in character. You can also do things like block the first hit of Strange's bolts and then reflect the second hit and counter him into combo. The range on it is at least 3 or 4 character lengths so there's a good range where it's extremely risky to use any projectile property attack on Thanos.

    Ah I see I was doing it wrong. OK his fireball os better than I thought. Don't think it changes the character to much
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    At minimum Thanos will likely be a strong support character as he has quite a few moves that are really oppressive when tagged into with other characters. I think he's definitely one of the characters that's designed to support other characters more than purely be a strong point character. His light kara command grab sets up full combos when tag canceled right before it hits.


    His titan's shield has pretty good durability vs other projectiles and the HK version throws out a huge hit box that can set up combos very easily for a tagged in character. His f+HK is a solid ranged projectile that causes a hard knockdown and easy combo conversions off a tag. Emperor's Stance also puts out a big hit box that covers AA or ground with easy conversions on hit.

    He may not have any air ok specials, but he has teleports that put him in the air, an air dash and an air OK super that has a ridiculously large hit box and does 4100 damage if it hits. He has good tools to command the air and you can't spend too much time in the air against him without putting yourself in danger.

    The durability isn't that good on the move. Loses to beams and any piercing projectiles. Can stop stuff like Arthur daggers and lances ryus hadokuen prob morg and chun fire balls too. So it prob just bets stuff that can be reflected.

    You gotta go in training mode. If you put the LK shield out early enough it beats Iron Man's HP unibeam and continues to hit him for at least 2 of the hits. The LK one is so durable that it requires both beams from Strange's HP bolts to land in order to remove it from the screen.

    Then you have the HK shield which from what I'm seeing is nothing short of ridiculous. It's basically a projectile reflector so it will shut down any projectile. It even beats SUPER projectiles like Strange's Spell of Vishanti. Counters them, blasts the opponent for wall bounced HKC then go HAM with tagged in character. You can also do things like block the first hit of Strange's bolts and then reflect the second hit and counter him into combo. The range on it is at least 3 or 4 character lengths so there's a good range where it's extremely risky to use any projectile property attack on Thanos.

    Ah I see I was doing it wrong. OK his fireball os better than I thought. Don't think it changes the character to much

    It doesn't have to change him much. Just showing that you didn't really training mode the character at all.

    Game is early so it'll be hard for people to see what all is going on. I don' think he's going to be top tier or anything, but at minimum if the game works the way I'm thinking you won't have to be top tier on point as long as you provide the top tier shit for another character to abuse. Characters like Thanos, Ultron and Strange seem very capable of that type of top tier support.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    At minimum Thanos will likely be a strong support character as he has quite a few moves that are really oppressive when tagged into with other characters. I think he's definitely one of the characters that's designed to support other characters more than purely be a strong point character. His light kara command grab sets up full combos when tag canceled right before it hits.


    His titan's shield has pretty good durability vs other projectiles and the HK version throws out a huge hit box that can set up combos very easily for a tagged in character. His f+HK is a solid ranged projectile that causes a hard knockdown and easy combo conversions off a tag. Emperor's Stance also puts out a big hit box that covers AA or ground with easy conversions on hit.

    He may not have any air ok specials, but he has teleports that put him in the air, an air dash and an air OK super that has a ridiculously large hit box and does 4100 damage if it hits. He has good tools to command the air and you can't spend too much time in the air against him without putting yourself in danger.

    The durability isn't that good on the move. Loses to beams and any piercing projectiles. Can stop stuff like Arthur daggers and lances ryus hadokuen prob morg and chun fire balls too. So it prob just bets stuff that can be reflected.

    You gotta go in training mode. If you put the LK shield out early enough it beats Iron Man's HP unibeam and continues to hit him for at least 2 of the hits. The LK one is so durable that it requires both beams from Strange's HP bolts to land in order to remove it from the screen.

    Then you have the HK shield which from what I'm seeing is nothing short of ridiculous. It's basically a projectile reflector so it will shut down any projectile. It even beats SUPER projectiles like Strange's Spell of Vishanti. Counters them, blasts the opponent for wall bounced HKC then go HAM with tagged in character. You can also do things like block the first hit of Strange's bolts and then reflect the second hit and counter him into combo. The range on it is at least 3 or 4 character lengths so there's a good range where it's extremely risky to use any projectile property attack on Thanos.

    Ah I see I was doing it wrong. OK his fireball os better than I thought. Don't think it changes the character to much

    It doesn't have to change him much. Just showing that you didn't really training mode the character at all.

    Game is early so it'll be hard for people to see what all is going on. I don' think he's going to be top tier or anything, but at minimum if the game works the way I'm thinking you won't have to be top tier on point as long as you provide the top tier shit for another character to abuse. Characters like Thanos, Ultron and Strange seem very capable of that type of top tier support.

    Oh I did I just did the besms really fast. Not that big of a deal. Early or not we can still look at a characters tools and tell what they are and what they are not. There's nothing about Thanos that leaps out to me. The tag system is going to go a long way in covering up his flaws but I don't believe it's enough. Even if they're a support they still need to be able to get the job done by themselves. You're not always going to have two characters and you can't ignore that.

    Now there's the stones which have to be taken into consideration too. These stones also hp in changing a characters viability and covering their flaws. So maybe there's a stone which also helps in raising his viability. I believe his best stone is space.

    So I believe that the conditions on which Thanos can succeed in is if you can consistently get the first hit. Your point has a strong neutral and strong corner carry. You can run space stone and you're always able to get your projectile out before your opponent shoots you with a beam and if they never ever ever jump what so ever at all. If all these conditions are met then Thanos is a perfectly mediocre character.
  • KorbidonKorbidon Who can stand against such abominations? Joined: Posts: 4,601
    Thanos has stupid easy combos and hit confirms, in addition to all his other strengths.

    Still unsure of what stone he needs though.
  • DirrtyPopDirrtyPop Joined: Posts: 205
    What are the best reset based teams out currently in peoples
  • KnighT aMKnighT aM Joined: Posts: 33

    Korbidon wrote: »
    Thanos has stupid easy combos and hit confirms, in addition to all his other strengths.

    Still unsure of what stone he needs though.

    I use reality but I think space is prob his best.
  • k4polok4polo Your Lethal Assassin Joined: Posts: 4,712
    Dime wrote: »
    Since this is a tier thread and the games been out a week...we should probably start talking actual tiers and stuff now?


    For me:

    A tier

    Dorm, Dante, ultron

    B tier

    Everyone else ATM till some cheap shit is found.

    Dorm:

    Flight, airdash, rose garden, good at counterzoning and getting in, has a beam super for lockdown tags. Literally seems like the perfect character. If any character is S tier yet, for me it's dorm.

    Dante:

    just works really well right now. Combos aren't to hard and neutral is easy to apply. Has great lockdown on hit to give dorm a free rose garden. Good all around character.

    Ultron:

    Also has an airdash and good zoning, his airdash normals are strong and he works well with the 2 aforementioned characters.

    Dorm/ultron is looking like the best team in the game at this early point as they are both basically point characters with great support skills. They are basically like putting 2 doctor dooms on a team... yet having a magneto function in one of them and none of mvc3 dooms awkwardness in the other characters function.


    Looking to see what comes around to really put this team in its place and counter them.

    The general consensus of whos up top is Dorm, Dante, and Ultron. I don't many people here are going to argue about this.

    I think Gamora, Captain Marvel, and Nova need to join them in your A tier so far.

    "Where there is light, there's a shadow"
    SFV: Nash, Cammy, Urien
    Injustice 2: Poison Ivy, Super Girl, Wonder Women
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,873
    edited September 26
    DirrtyPop wrote: »
    What are the best reset based teams out currently in peoples

    Any reset is basically a forced grounding that allows some manner of air teching(otherwise you just dropping your combo). However that said Jedah, Thanos, and Thor I know can all do the forced ground tech which you can try mixup trash after that. I know more people can to be sure just not sure who.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    At minimum Thanos will likely be a strong support character as he has quite a few moves that are really oppressive when tagged into with other characters. I think he's definitely one of the characters that's designed to support other characters more than purely be a strong point character. His light kara command grab sets up full combos when tag canceled right before it hits.


    His titan's shield has pretty good durability vs other projectiles and the HK version throws out a huge hit box that can set up combos very easily for a tagged in character. His f+HK is a solid ranged projectile that causes a hard knockdown and easy combo conversions off a tag. Emperor's Stance also puts out a big hit box that covers AA or ground with easy conversions on hit.

    He may not have any air ok specials, but he has teleports that put him in the air, an air dash and an air OK super that has a ridiculously large hit box and does 4100 damage if it hits. He has good tools to command the air and you can't spend too much time in the air against him without putting yourself in danger.

    The durability isn't that good on the move. Loses to beams and any piercing projectiles. Can stop stuff like Arthur daggers and lances ryus hadokuen prob morg and chun fire balls too. So it prob just bets stuff that can be reflected.

    You gotta go in training mode. If you put the LK shield out early enough it beats Iron Man's HP unibeam and continues to hit him for at least 2 of the hits. The LK one is so durable that it requires both beams from Strange's HP bolts to land in order to remove it from the screen.

    Then you have the HK shield which from what I'm seeing is nothing short of ridiculous. It's basically a projectile reflector so it will shut down any projectile. It even beats SUPER projectiles like Strange's Spell of Vishanti. Counters them, blasts the opponent for wall bounced HKC then go HAM with tagged in character. You can also do things like block the first hit of Strange's bolts and then reflect the second hit and counter him into combo. The range on it is at least 3 or 4 character lengths so there's a good range where it's extremely risky to use any projectile property attack on Thanos.

    Ah I see I was doing it wrong. OK his fireball os better than I thought. Don't think it changes the character to much

    It doesn't have to change him much. Just showing that you didn't really training mode the character at all.

    Game is early so it'll be hard for people to see what all is going on. I don' think he's going to be top tier or anything, but at minimum if the game works the way I'm thinking you won't have to be top tier on point as long as you provide the top tier shit for another character to abuse. Characters like Thanos, Ultron and Strange seem very capable of that type of top tier support.

    Oh I did I just did the besms really fast. Not that big of a deal. Early or not we can still look at a characters tools and tell what they are and what they are not. There's nothing about Thanos that leaps out to me. The tag system is going to go a long way in covering up his flaws but I don't believe it's enough. Even if they're a support they still need to be able to get the job done by themselves. You're not always going to have two characters and you can't ignore that.

    Now there's the stones which have to be taken into consideration too. These stones also hp in changing a characters viability and covering their flaws. So maybe there's a stone which also helps in raising his viability. I believe his best stone is space.

    So I believe that the conditions on which Thanos can succeed in is if you can consistently get the first hit. Your point has a strong neutral and strong corner carry. You can run space stone and you're always able to get your projectile out before your opponent shoots you with a beam and if they never ever ever jump what so ever at all. If all these conditions are met then Thanos is a perfectly mediocre character.


    That's why I brought up the tag system specifically because in Marvel 2 there were characters that got away being near garbage on point simply because their assist tools were that powerful and most of the point characters didn't have anti air assist tools nearly as strong. Dr.Doom started out as a guy that was basically good for throwing rocks in front of another point character and making that character close to top tier because of it.

    With the game not being as reliant around XF mechanic comebacks, I feel there's room for characters that are good for being able to put all of their strong hit boxes on screen for another character. There's definitely a possibility that like Marvel 2 you can have characters that aren't gdlk on point, but have moves that are gdlk for another character on point. If this becomes the case which is quite likely because of how the tag system basically opens you up to a large box of assists with every character, it's possible that a character that isn't gdlk on point just ends up having a gdlk set of hit boxes to abuse for another character.

    This technique was very viable in Marvel 2 because of how the game worked where comebacks required a lot of work even if you had 2 or 3 high tier point characters. In Marvel 3 it wasn't as viable because the 2nd or 3rd character dropping with XF could erase entire teams so it was important to have a team of characters that could erase teams. With the game going back to more Marvel 2 like standards where coming back with any point character if they're by themselves is rough, it leaves the door open for a lot of characters who are just great at putting assist hit boxes on a team to make up some of the better teams. Especially with how often counter swtiches can keep 2 characters in the game any way.




    As far as Thanos, again don't know enough about him to say he's going to be bad or good, but from what I'm seeing he definitely has tools at minimum that can be strong for other characters. Hopefully he's at least mediocre when it's all said and done.

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  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,708
    Point and support is weird in MVCI because you have to put your support in the front if you want him to support the point character, or you have to use the point character with no support in the front to try to land a hit by himself and tag in your support to do some support bullshit. I never played MVC2, but I imagine it would be hard to start the match with Psylocke. I think the best teams will be the composed of two well rounded characters instead of each one fitting a very precise role.
    One thing that saddens me is how damage seems to be similar across the board. I wanted UMVC3 Strider/Hulk in this system.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited September 27
    willseless wrote: »
    Point and support is weird in MVCI because you have to put your support in the front if you want him to support the point character, or you have to use the point character with no support in the front to try to land a hit by himself and tag in your support to do some support bullshit. I never played MVC2, but I imagine it would be hard to start the match with Psylocke. I think the best teams will be the composed of two well rounded characters instead of each one fitting a very precise role.
    One thing that saddens me is how damage seems to be similar across the board. I wanted UMVC3 Strider/Hulk in this system.

    It's really just about getting whoever is first started. Ideally the person who is best on point starts on point, but then you'll eventually get a situation to tag in and that gets the support started after a knockdown or combo into super. At that point they put the hit boxes on screen and then you can interchange with them and use the hit boxes you need for them.


    Right now it's easy to see the characters that are solid on point and as support, but with exploration won't be surprised to see some pretty strong teams with Ghost Rider/Strange/Thanos putting very useful hit boxes in the right places for other points. While not being too bad on point themselves. The tag system can allow you to exploit anything from a specific character and it could be a character that's not gdlk on point.

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  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,225
    I have no idea who is going to be good long term in this game yet because everyone seems to have something to be crazy with.

    Except Spencer. Fuck that guy.
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  • KnighT aMKnighT aM Joined: Posts: 33
    willseless wrote: »
    Point and support is weird in MVCI because you have to put your support in the front if you want him to support the point character, or you have to use the point character with no support in the front to try to land a hit by himself and tag in your support to do some support bullshit. I never played MVC2, but I imagine it would be hard to start the match with Psylocke. I think the best teams will be the composed of two well rounded characters instead of each one fitting a very precise role.
    One thing that saddens me is how damage seems to be similar across the board. I wanted UMVC3 Strider/Hulk in this system.

    It's really just about getting whoever is first started. Ideally the person who is best on point starts on point, but then you'll eventually get a situation to tag in and that gets the support started after a knockdown or combo into super. At that point they put the hit boxes on screen and then you can interchange with them and use the hit boxes you need for them.


    Right now it's easy to see the characters that are solid on point and as support, but with exploration won't be surprised to see some pretty strong teams with Ghost Rider/Strange/Thanos putting very useful hit boxes in the right places for other points. While not being too bad on point themselves. The tag system can allow you to exploit anything from a specific character and it could be a character that's not gdlk on point.

    I hope you are right about GR/Thanos/Strange because right now I don't see a reason to play anyone other than Dorm/Dante/Ultron/Nova. Is there a team that can do anything better than any combination of these 4?
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    I think it's going to be rough for characters that aren't strong as point and assist. A lot of times with thanos I find myself saying well why not run someone else instead. I feel like a good team balance is essential. I don't really understand some of these two point character teams like nova/ultron. There's also times when I've seen Hawkeye with space stone and just cringe as he does nothing with the storm.

    Strange is weird for me. I played him in 3 and I'm not really liking his transition to mvci. He does seem pretty awesome I just don't like him personally. As of right now for me personally I think the 3 strongest characters are Dante Strider and Dormammu. I need to see and learn more about this game to be able to get a feel for some more of the characters.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited September 27
    KnighT aM wrote: »
    willseless wrote: »
    Point and support is weird in MVCI because you have to put your support in the front if you want him to support the point character, or you have to use the point character with no support in the front to try to land a hit by himself and tag in your support to do some support bullshit. I never played MVC2, but I imagine it would be hard to start the match with Psylocke. I think the best teams will be the composed of two well rounded characters instead of each one fitting a very precise role.
    One thing that saddens me is how damage seems to be similar across the board. I wanted UMVC3 Strider/Hulk in this system.

    It's really just about getting whoever is first started. Ideally the person who is best on point starts on point, but then you'll eventually get a situation to tag in and that gets the support started after a knockdown or combo into super. At that point they put the hit boxes on screen and then you can interchange with them and use the hit boxes you need for them.


    Right now it's easy to see the characters that are solid on point and as support, but with exploration won't be surprised to see some pretty strong teams with Ghost Rider/Strange/Thanos putting very useful hit boxes in the right places for other points. While not being too bad on point themselves. The tag system can allow you to exploit anything from a specific character and it could be a character that's not gdlk on point.

    I hope you are right about GR/Thanos/Strange because right now I don't see a reason to play anyone other than Dorm/Dante/Ultron/Nova. Is there a team that can do anything better than any combination of these 4?

    It's early. There was a time in Marvel 2 where Guile and Iceman were top tier.


    There were times in Marvel 3 where Zero was too execution heavy to be tournament viable, Vergil was too unsafe to be top tier and Morrigan would die to the air dash nerfs in Ultimate.


    Dorm/Dante/Ultron/Nova are all solid characters and 3 of them are coming back as legacy character from Marvel 3. So getting back into them isn't very difficult so it's easier to explore what's new about them then going in with brand new characters like Morrigan or Megaman. Dormammu was known as a character in Marvel 3 that looked very high tier until his inevitable weaknesses started to come about to keep him out of top tier. Ultron is a solid support character that's good on point too and isn't too execution heavy so he's strong early as well.


    Zero is most likely going to be one of the top characters as he's explored more. He seems like when put together he'll be a slightly more fair version of what he was in 3, but with extra tools to help out. No way he won't be top tier or near top tier. Buttons are still too ridiculous for a character with his movement, mix up and projectile game. Megaman has really good potential, Chun Li will likely get pretty cheap, Jedah also has too much potentially going for him to not be good. I think he'll be nearly unblockable once he gets close once people get good with him.

    Captain Marvel will likely get better as well. Generally the tag system allows you to exploit anything good from any character with any other character so it's very likely that odd teams have a chance to be very good or optimal.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,708
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    I have my concerns about X. Nkt being able to move and charge buster is pretty weird. Air buster canceling when you hit the ground. Seems to control the ground and normal jump height pretty well. Not sure about SJ height and that's pretty concerning so is buster being his only air ok special.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited September 27
    Megaman would likely be busted if he had a bunch of air ok specials because almost his entire moveset is designed to anti air aerial characters. You can't just go in the air with flight characters against him without worrying about getting special AA'd or level 1 super sniped. Special weapons rush and air buster super pretty much forces you to flight cancel to avoid getting hit.


    Sonic slicer is really annoying specifically for aerial characters as it hits at an angle that can stop you from going to the air to begin with. Then on top of that if you already are in the air it can ricochet off the wall and hit you in the back. The hit box becomes pretty large with armor equipped.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,346
    Megaman would likely be busted if he had a bunch of air ok specials because almost his entire moveset is designed to anti air aerial characters. You can't just go in the air with flight characters against him without worrying about getting special AA'd or level 1 super sniped. Special weapons rush and air buster super pretty much forces you to flight cancel to avoid getting hit.


    Sonic slicer is really annoying specifically for aerial characters as it hits at an angle that can stop you from going to the air to begin with. Then on top of that if you already are in the air it can ricochet off the wall and hit you in the back. The hit box becomes pretty large with armor equipped.

    Yeah they do AA pretty well. But it seems as though it limits his combo potential and his game play. Arthur and MM are pretty similar to me but Arthur is able to do his specials in the air which gives him more options and opens up his combo potential.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,992 mod
    Not surprised Gamora's guns go through a lot of shit. Guns in the older games tended to act more like beams so it seems they wanted to keep that property here, even if they are now actual projectiles. I believe some of the other guns in the game share the same unreflectable property as well.
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