MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    edited September 27
    d3v wrote: »
    Not surprised Gamora's guns go through a lot of shit. Guns in the older games tended to act more like beams so it seems they wanted to keep that property here, even if they are now actual projectiles. I believe some of the other guns in the game share the same unreflectable property as well.

    Well what I do know about Jedah's spirals is that they don't interact with other projectiles. Unless you hit Jedah they stay on screen regardless of what other projectiles are on screen.

    Morrigan's harmonious spear seems to have pretty good durability and eats out other standard projectiles. The initial cloud it makes as it's setting up has pretty low durability, but once it's out it's hard to fuck with.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,890
    So, when looking at synergy for things like tagging and stuff... we should look at:

    Move properties on block, on hit, and on wiff.

    How can a wiffed move be good?

    Ask reality stone.

    General properties of good moves to tag from:

    Lockdown, invincible, projectile, unsafe on block or hit, heat seeking hit, covers an important angle on the screen, does great damage as a starter but hard for the point to combo off of.

    Moves that are probably going to become more and more useful as time goes on are heatseeking hits like striders divekick.

    Richard Nguyen was using dantes air shoot straight down pistol to kinda heat seek and lockdown so he could get in.

    He was also using dantes torpedo moves into tag as a way in, not necessarily as a lockdown... but just to get in... like uriens ex tackle if he could tag cancel it.

    So heatseeking moves and fast torpedo moves are likely to become more important as time goes on because they serve as neutral bypassers.
    Mind stone has a lot of power in it by hitting the command grab into combo to make meter and using that meter for a lockdown beam or counter switch.

    Mindstone will also be able to make for certain kinds of unblockable resets by doing the command grab/low mixup where you go low a frame after the command grab goes active so if they jumped the command grab they get hit by the low (Mike z took out these kinds of unblockables in SG by making it so that if you upbacked through a wiffed command grab you got chicken block protection)

    Mindstone might be very good on characters that don't seem to have a go to stone because it means those characters are probably well rounded and the only thing they lack is a command grab or a reversal.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,986 mod
    Dante's air shoot straight down doesn't turn Dante around even when it crosses up. This makes it great for use with tag for left/right mixups. Jedah's air downward drill has the same property, and I suspect can be used the same way as well.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 847
    Fuck me Soul Storm scales hard! Once you reach around 60% you're literally doing pixels of damage per hit and that's with hypers.
  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,700
    flicky wrote: »
    Fuck me Soul Storm scales hard! Once you reach around 60% you're literally doing pixels of damage per hit and that's with hypers.

    Optimized soul storm will revolve around double surge spam to get a lot of life.
  • wakalakawakalaka Joined: Posts: 150
    willseless wrote: »
    flicky wrote: »
    Fuck me Soul Storm scales hard! Once you reach around 60% you're literally doing pixels of damage per hit and that's with hypers.

    Optimized soul storm will revolve around double surge spam to get a lot of life.

    If you combo knock someone into the air and slightly delay soul surge on your partner (hold r1) you can combo soul surge up to at least 8 hits.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,789
    I believe someone said that soul surge doesn't count twice in the storm *shrug*
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    edited September 27
    I believe someone said that soul surge doesn't count twice in the storm *shrug*


    Plus the life steal scales heavily during combos. You'd probably start getting next to no health very quickly even if it was possible.
    flicky wrote: »
    Fuck me Soul Storm scales hard! Once you reach around 60% you're literally doing pixels of damage per hit and that's with hypers.


    Most Soul Storm combo videos I've seen have been ground based combos any ways so you can always add a reset in.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 847
    I believe someone said that soul surge doesn't count twice in the storm *shrug*


    Plus the life steal scales heavily during combos. You'd probably start getting next to no health very quickly even if it was possible.
    flicky wrote: »
    Fuck me Soul Storm scales hard! Once you reach around 60% you're literally doing pixels of damage per hit and that's with hypers.


    Most Soul Storm combo videos I've seen have been ground based combos any ways so you can always add a reset in.

    Indeed, just talking specifically about damage scaling. However the last hit of Lv.3's still take a chunk of damage like they usually do. Check out desk's YouTube!
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    edited September 27
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think people complain about scaling too much. Not sure why. Maybe there is too much MVC3ish feelings left over. Clearly this is not meant to be a one touch game. I'm pretty sure resets will prevail. I guess everyone is still trying to find their 100% combos, but I just don't think they'll be very prevalent in this game. A game where mixup options are very strong, it's better to just go for resets. The combo limiter works pretty similarly to MVC2. I think they were trying to bring back that style. I can't wait to see the mixup trees that people will come up with.

    The nice thing is that resets also promote neutral. Marvel 2 generally had longer bouts of neutral play because you weren't getting ToDs unless you had like 5 bars stocked or hit somebody with Ironman. Resets promote more neutral play since sometimes your mix up is strong enough and they get hit again and sometimes it gets blocked/pushblocked/reversaled out and then you go back to neutral.

    With the added counters switches and quite a lot of characters having armor or attack invincible specials or supers, it's a lot to account for and forces the issue of neutral.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    Hmmm wonder what you watched that got those 3 characters at the top?

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    You guys' tournament tier lists are so stronk.

    I'm still gonna wait till about the end of next month to see more shit in play before I really throw a list down. I'll conjecture with what you guys have until then.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    Hmmm wonder what you watched that got those 3 characters at the top?

    I'll admit that Dante got bumped up because of SCR.
    But Ultron and especially Dormammu were up there just from preview footage combined with my first day of playing.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,787
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »

    Id make haggar higher. Lariat is legit stupid in this game and it probably makes him high tier for right now
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    edited September 27
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »
    Hmmm wonder what you watched that got those 3 characters at the top?

    I'll admit that Dante got bumped up because of SCR.
    But Ultron and especially Dormammu were up there just from preview footage combined with my first day of playing.

    Dante is really good. Works better in a game without ToDs everywhere as his support and neutral tools carry even farther. The fact that fireworks is a normal now means you can just spam it in every block string. Not sure if hammer is invincible anymore but it seems faster start up with still a good hit box. Pushblock not pushing as far helps his solo rush a lot.

    Plus it's easier to play him on point since you can just tag into someone else vs a match up where his slow button frames may be an issue. Everyone was too afraid to play him on point in 3 because his slow frames and one touch death from other points. Without fast button + assist call dominating opening gambits he has more room to be a point character

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • KnighT aMKnighT aM Joined: Posts: 33
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »

    What does everyone see in Mega Man? He seems like a worse version of Arthur to me.
  • Hero_PandaHero_Panda Joined: Posts: 530
    Characters like Dante and Zero, with their archetypes, will be on top considering the amount of options they have.
    With X in the game, I don't see why they would allow Zero to keep his buster.
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »

    Id make haggar higher. Lariat is legit stupid in this game and it probably makes him high tier for right now

    Maybe, but I don't really know how high that would move him. I think he's useful, but I'm not sure how good that actually makes him.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    KnighT aM wrote: »
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »

    What does everyone see in Mega Man? He seems like a worse version of Arthur to me.

    That's basically how I feel about him. Pretty sure MM is really bad in this game. I actually feel like Arthur is a really good character. He has a lot of stuff going for him this time around.
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
  • KnighT aMKnighT aM Joined: Posts: 33
    What am I missing about Haggar? I love the character but I can't do anything with him. I saw RayRay say he was really good now Fchamp lists him top ten. Apparently he's more than just lariat
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    I feel the same. I don't think Haggar is bad at all, and Lariat is crazy good with Active Switch. I'm just not seeing what puts him in top 10.
    Other than that I think Champ's list is pretty solid.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • ES_CurseES_Curse ALL HAIL THE HOLY PHARAOH Joined: Posts: 8,171
    It's not just Lariat, but the overall nerfing of chip and the potential to score HBDs with a strategic Lariat (especially when Soul Storm has people on both sides) gives Haggar more opportunities to blow people up than ever before. Not to mention he still has pipe, which forces a lot of characters to respect him at mid range.
    Space Stone is what puts Haggar in top 10. The Surge mitigates one of his main weaknesses, and cutting off movement/assists is basically a death sentence vs him. And even if Space became the meta and appeared on every team, Haggar's defensive tools can shut down careless offense quickly. His only fault is dealing with Reality Stone and hard zoning, but that's what partners are for.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,069
    Those that think Dante was a bad point character in 3 just didn't dig into the character. He had 1 touch kills but they required damage engines like dorm or strange. Funny enough those same characters are really fucking good for him in this game. I think Dante just intimidates people because he isn't some pickup and body people kinda character. You have to invest time in learning him to get good enough to use him. Most people that play marvel games (at least in 3) want low execution high yield characters. That reflects on the laziness of the community tho more than anything.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
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    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    edited September 27
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Those that think Dante was a bad point character in 3 just didn't dig into the character. He had 1 touch kills but they required damage engines like dorm or strange. Funny enough those same characters are really fucking good for him in this game. I think Dante just intimidates people because he isn't some pickup and body people kinda character. You have to invest time in learning him to get good enough to use him. Most people that play marvel games (at least in 3) want low execution high yield characters. That reflects on the laziness of the community tho more than anything.

    Not sure if it was laziness but in mvc3 simpke stuff were able to ToD so there wasn't much meaning in learning more advanced stuff. MvC3 wasn't a forgiving game and dropped combos lead to death. The lack of ToDs in this game is refreshing.

    Champs list is interesting not sure why firebrand is in his top 10.
  • KnighT aMKnighT aM Joined: Posts: 33

    I don't see Jedah going anywhere but up.
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    LOL. He literally listed 29/30 characters.
    Apparently everyone forgets about Firebrand.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    edited September 27
    Dante could work on point but he wasn't ideal for start of match when too many of the top tier points could mash 4 and 5 frame buttons with assist right in his face was just not optimal for tourneys.


    Less stuff floods the screen at the start so gives him better room


    Also I figured Frank May Cry would be a more popular team

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    Frank is such an enigma in this game, just like in Ultimate.

    Like, he COULD be secret top tier. But he could just as easily be one of the worst in the game.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • ES_CurseES_Curse ALL HAIL THE HOLY PHARAOH Joined: Posts: 8,171
    If people can get some good solo Frank combos with Infinity Storm, he will be an absolute beast. Time, Reality, and maybe Soul are all good for bumping up that combo counter to build levels. Do his normals still chip like a motherfucker?
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,299 mod
    The badness gets badder. New overhead glitch

    https://clips.twitch.tv/VivaciousFurtiveGerbilVoteNay

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • dizzynecrodizzynecro Shenanigans! Joined: Posts: 942
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »
    Frank is such an enigma in this game, just like in Ultimate.

    Like, he COULD be secret top tier. But he could just as easily be one of the worst in the game.

    I think Frank will be strong. The tag system lets him level up much more easily. He's just an oddball character so there aren't many people playing him yet.
  • VyomeshVyomesh Joined: Posts: 590
    edited September 28
    I'm having a lot of trouble trying to find a solid partner for Spidey. (Picking up Spidey himself is a heavy task lol)
    I tried Jedah, but he just isn't my cup of tea as a character.
    Trying out Thor now. As I feel that Thor is a lot better in Infinite than he was in Ultimate. But I can't really seem to find any proper synergy between these two.
    From what I seen of her, Monster Waifu Hunter would make a good partner for him. Her UNGA sword moves have a lot of blockstun, allowing for nice tags and Spidey to get in, and she also has great lockdown moves in her dual blades slashes/supers and her spread shot and air arrow shot.

    Why isn't she in the base game? ;_;
  • Eat ManEat Man Joined: Posts: 141
    edited September 28
    Vyomesh wrote: »

    Why isn't she in the base game? ;_;

    Gotta make dat money
    Oops, my bad, that's my scenario.
  • KiyaaKingKiyaaKing Joined: Posts: 1,055
    The badness gets badder. New overhead glitch

    https://clips.twitch.tv/VivaciousFurtiveGerbilVoteNay

    The Dante thing was revealed during SCR weekend, but I didn't know it appied to other characters. That will probably be a big deal until we get a handle on how it works. Then it will just become the player's responsibility to know when to stand block.
    My Characters/Teams:
    UMvC3 - Spider-Man/Magneto/Dante, Zero/Dante/Strider, Doom/Dormammu/Dante
    SSF4 - Juri, Yun, El Fuerte
    Injustice - Flash, Zod, Lex Luthor
    Skullgirls - Cerebella/Squigly, Parasoul/Double
    GGXXAC+R - Slayer, Baiken

    3DS FC: 5043-2719-7330
  • NickRocksNickRocks DeathPlay Joined: Posts: 22,818
    I dont see ultron getting worse (considering the cast stays the same; no idea what dlc chars will bring to the meta). I see Iron Man getting better;
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