MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,261 mod
    edited September 29
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    The funny thing is Richard Nyguen is not a reality stone user. And he was beating reality stone users left and right. Very crisp Dante movement and Dorm made reality a non-issue for him. I have noticed that people aren't really using the movement options yet. I think even I have only wave dashed a handful of times in matches so far. A lot of players may be afraid to utilize the advanced movement options because wave dashing has changed back to it's MVC2 inputs. And it's easy to get overlaps in the heat of a match.

    Eventually people will get their movement down, and once everyone's movement gets crisp (at least crisp enough to start moving in actual matches), then reality will probably drop down. I remember back in the days in MVC2 when people thought all you needed was Blackheart/Commando/Sentinel and you could beat any team. But once movement improved that team because less effective.

    That's the main reason I like moves like reality surge and hidden missiles as they are braindead defense that force stronger, more planned offense and zoning. You have to play Ryu/Cap/Haggar to get anything close to an invincible assist (and 2 of those characters likely won't be high tier), so reality is good alternative to force longer bouts of neutral.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 844
    He's definitely gonna be someone I work on over the coming weeks. I've just been concentrating on the single player content for now, people get annoyed when you're fumbling about all the time in ranked so I've just been unlocking colours and doing missions so I can get used to the new control scheme, and work from there. I still press only lk to fly...
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    flicky wrote: »
    He's definitely gonna be someone I work on over the coming weeks. I've just been concentrating on the single player content for now, people get annoyed when you're fumbling about all the time in ranked so I've just been unlocking colours and doing missions so I can get used to the new control scheme, and work from there. I still press only lk to fly...

    Yeah I've been doing that also. The transition to mvci has been a bit more difficult than I thought it would be. Hopefully I get adjusted soon enough.

    I'm thinking that a Captain Marvel / America team with power stone might be a decent team.
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,780
    If reality stone went away on hit it wouldnt be so bad.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,801
    spondermen is a cheater with webzip!!!!
  • KiyaaKingKiyaaKing Joined: Posts: 1,055
    edited September 29
    So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this "guts" mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.
    My Characters/Teams:
    UMvC3 - Spider-Man/Magneto/Dante, Zero/Dante/Strider, Doom/Dormammu/Dante
    SSF4 - Juri, Yun, El Fuerte
    Injustice - Flash, Zod, Lex Luthor
    Skullgirls - Cerebella/Squigly, Parasoul/Double
    GGXXAC+R - Slayer, Baiken

    3DS FC: 5043-2719-7330
  • Zane HitsurugiZane Hitsurugi X-buster, ready. Joined: Posts: 1,123
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.
    PSN: hawkw1ng
    BBCF: Susano'o, Bang, Kokonoe UNIBEXLTEST: Enkidu/Yuzuriha MVC:I- Megaman X/Zero
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,179
    edited September 30
    Vyomesh wrote: »
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »
    So, uh, remember how Gamora's guns are basically a big "fuck you" to other projectiles?
    And y'know how we were saying Spider-Man might be slightly slept on?

    Apparently Web Zip works the same way.
    It completely ignores projectile interaction AND gives immediate follow-up opportunity.
    Spidey is seriously making a case to become my main character.



    That's a nice Super you got there.
    Would be a shame if someone...
    Web zipped it
    :3

    DELETE THIS QUICK!!!!

    Deviljin censor that shit before combofiend nerfs it!!!
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,553
    KiyaaKing wrote: »
    So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this "guts" mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

    Did some tests with Dante's f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

    First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

    Hulk:

    1-11: 500
    12-14: 450
    15-16: 400
    17-19: 350
    20-23: 300
    24-28: 250

    Iron Man:

    1-10: 500
    11-13: 450
    14-15: 400
    16-18: 350
    19-21: 300
    22-25: 250

    Rocket Raccoon:

    1-9: 500
    10-11: 450
    12-14: 400
    15-17: 350
    18-20: 300
    21-23: 250

    Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every... 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    KiyaaKing wrote: »
    So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this "guts" mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

    Did some tests with Dante's f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

    First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

    Hulk:

    1-11: 500
    12-14: 450
    15-16: 400
    17-19: 350
    20-23: 300
    24-28: 250

    Iron Man:

    1-10: 500
    11-13: 450
    14-15: 400
    16-18: 350
    19-21: 300
    22-25: 250

    Rocket Raccoon:

    1-9: 500
    10-11: 450
    12-14: 400
    15-17: 350
    18-20: 300
    21-23: 250

    Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every... 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

    Good work! I'm gonna cruncg these numbers later to get an approximation of total HP for the characters as well as total HP once they have had their their life reduced to half.


    It won't be perfect but it will give us an easier estimation of how much total hp characters have.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,553
    Dime wrote: »
    KiyaaKing wrote: »
    So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this "guts" mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

    Did some tests with Dante's f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

    First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

    Hulk:

    1-11: 500
    12-14: 450
    15-16: 400
    17-19: 350
    20-23: 300
    24-28: 250

    Iron Man:

    1-10: 500
    11-13: 450
    14-15: 400
    16-18: 350
    19-21: 300
    22-25: 250

    Rocket Raccoon:

    1-9: 500
    10-11: 450
    12-14: 400
    15-17: 350
    18-20: 300
    21-23: 250

    Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every... 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

    Good work! I'm gonna cruncg these numbers later to get an approximation of total HP for the characters as well as total HP once they have had their their life reduced to half.


    It won't be perfect but it will give us an easier estimation of how much total hp characters have.

    The 11k/10k/9k estimates seem to be about right tbh.

    A more accurate way of testing would be picking Reality Stone and whiff jabs to fire that small projectile that causes no hitstun. It deals 100 damage iirc so you can get more accurate numbers easily although it's quite boring.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,972 mod
    edited September 30
    KiyaaKing wrote: »
    So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this "guts" mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

    Guts scales the same way on all characters and starts at 50%. The different damage comes in because different health tiers reach 50% sooner or later than others.

    Health% - Scaling%
    50 - 10%
    40 - 20%
    30 - 30%
    20 - 40%
    10 - 50%
    Dime wrote: »
    KiyaaKing wrote: »
    So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this "guts" mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

    Did some tests with Dante's f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

    First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

    Hulk:

    1-11: 500
    12-14: 450
    15-16: 400
    17-19: 350
    20-23: 300
    24-28: 250

    Iron Man:

    1-10: 500
    11-13: 450
    14-15: 400
    16-18: 350
    19-21: 300
    22-25: 250

    Rocket Raccoon:

    1-9: 500
    10-11: 450
    12-14: 400
    15-17: 350
    18-20: 300
    21-23: 250

    Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every... 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

    Good work! I'm gonna cruncg these numbers later to get an approximation of total HP for the characters as well as total HP once they have had their their life reduced to half.


    It won't be perfect but it will give us an easier estimation of how much total hp characters have.

    Weren't these already figured out at something like 9,050, 10,020, and 11-something?
  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,644
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • ES_CurseES_Curse ALL HAIL THE HOLY PHARAOH Joined: Posts: 8,144
    One thing that seems very disconcerting about this game is everyone becoming so... homogenized.
    - Combos cap at roughly the same point, most characters can reach it easily
    - Health is pretty similar, compare Strider vs Hulk in MvC1-MvC3 to MvCI
    - System mechanics like DUD and perfect pushblock let everyone do roughly the same shit

    Idk, maybe my Marvel days are just behind me, but the game seems even less expressive when your choices are largely cosmetic with a few main tools that the top teams will always have.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    Yeah sorry, i dont see it. There were waaay cheaper things in older marvels.

    All reality does is force you to rethink your autopilot day one pressure neutral.

    Marvel is a gane based around neutral anyways so reality is perfect to me... and i dont even use it.

    Come back to me when you have to deal with an invincible assist that beats pushblocking, throw teching, all attacks on the ground and in the air, causes enough blockstun to get a mixup from, is hard as hell to punish and gives full unscaled combo on hit.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • Zane HitsurugiZane Hitsurugi X-buster, ready. Joined: Posts: 1,123
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Its a mechanic that rewards you for getting hit is what it is.
    PSN: hawkw1ng
    BBCF: Susano'o, Bang, Kokonoe UNIBEXLTEST: Enkidu/Yuzuriha MVC:I- Megaman X/Zero
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,972 mod
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Its a mechanic that rewards you for getting hit is what it is.

    No, it's a mechanic that rewards you for knowing how to protect yourself from getting punished when you get hit.

    This is Marvel after all, where there really isn't any commitment, or honest actions. Every can be protected under a layer of dishonesty and scummy stuff that allow you to be noncommittal.
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    edited September 30
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Its a mechanic that rewards you for getting hit is what it is.

    It's not as serious as you're making it out to be. If this is your first marvel game then I understand your plight. You're making reality out to be this auto win move when it's not that in the least. It's something that can be played around if you just think about it for .5 seconds.

    Let me ask you this then. Can you please tell me the start up active and recovery framesof reality surge? Can you tell me the advantage on hit and on block? If you don't know the answers to these questions you probably shouldn't be complaining about the move.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,261 mod
    edited September 30
    d3v wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Its a mechanic that rewards you for getting hit is what it is.

    No, it's a mechanic that rewards you for knowing how to protect yourself from getting punished when you get hit.

    This is Marvel after all, where there really isn't any commitment, or honest actions. Every can be protected under a layer of dishonesty and scummy stuff that allow you to be noncommittal.

    Pretty much. This is not a game where they're going to bring everything down to some great level of honesty. Everything is meant to be oppressive in this game. It's superheroes fighting suped up versions of other characters. You'll have to play Injustice 2 if you want anything close to an honest super hero fighter. I guess that's why Sonicfox is having a good time in this game because he can full scum out in it.


    Things as cheesy as reality surge is just the bare minimum for strong shit in Marvel. I've already said a bunch of times that Marvel 3 and now this game have a big history of tracking things and tracking things are about the best defensive tools in Marvel that aren't invincible attacks. In a game where movement is super oppressive with tracking teleports, anything defensive that tracks is about the best defensive tool you can get to slow things down.

    If Marvel goes the way I think it will, in about a couple months there will be so much shit to complain about that reality surge will start to go off the radar.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Zane HitsurugiZane Hitsurugi X-buster, ready. Joined: Posts: 1,123
    d3v wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Its a mechanic that rewards you for getting hit is what it is.

    No, it's a mechanic that rewards you for knowing how to protect yourself from getting punished when you get hit.

    This is Marvel after all, where there really isn't any commitment, or honest actions. Every can be protected under a layer of dishonesty and scummy stuff that allow you to be noncommittal.

    Pretty much. This is not a game where they're going to bring everything down to some great level of honesty. Everything is meant to be oppressive in this game. It's superheroes fighting suped up versions of other characters. You'll have to play Injustice 2 if you want anything close to an honest super hero fighter. I guess that's why Sonicfox is having a good time in this game because he can full scum out in it.


    Things as cheesy as reality surge is just the bare minimum for strong shit in Marvel. I've already said a bunch of times that Marvel 3 and now this game have a big history of tracking things and tracking things are about the best defensive tools in Marvel that aren't invincible attacks. In a game where movement is super oppressive with tracking teleports, anything defensive that tracks is about the best defensive tool you can get to slow things down.

    If Marvel goes the way I think it will, in about a couple months there will be so much shit to complain about that reality surge will start to go off the radar.
    Everything is meant to be dishonest, but not really since certain characters have to actually play by a set of rules while others fill the same niche but doing everything better.
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    Branh0913 wrote: »
    I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It's especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

    Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn't be easy to avoid. It's a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it's pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
    The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn't that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

    I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn't game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it's a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that's basically all it does). And they're calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.
    Its a mechanic that rewards you for getting hit is what it is.

    It's not as serious as you're making it out to be. If this is your first marvel game then I understand your plight. You're making reality out to be this auto win move when it's not that in the least. It's something that can be played around if you just think about it for .5 seconds.

    Let me ask you this then. Can you please tell me the start up active and recovery framesof reality surge? Can you tell me the advantage on hit and on block? If you don't know the answers to these questions you probably shouldn't be complaining about the move.
    By that logic, if you don't know the frame data, you shouldn't be defending the move.
    PSN: hawkw1ng
    BBCF: Susano'o, Bang, Kokonoe UNIBEXLTEST: Enkidu/Yuzuriha MVC:I- Megaman X/Zero
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    edited September 30
    https://mobile.twitter.com/TOOLASSlSTED/status/913296653595152384
    Sigh not sure when I said I didn't have the frame data but you clearly don't have a clue and just spewing stuff.
  • Zane HitsurugiZane Hitsurugi X-buster, ready. Joined: Posts: 1,123
    https://mobile.twitter.com/TOOLASSlSTED/status/913296653595152384
    Sigh not sure when I said I didn't have the frame data but you clearly don't have a clue and just spewing stuff.
    I never said that you didnt.
    PSN: hawkw1ng
    BBCF: Susano'o, Bang, Kokonoe UNIBEXLTEST: Enkidu/Yuzuriha MVC:I- Megaman X/Zero
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,551
    I think reality stone is going to fall off pretty hard later on. I think most of the optimized teams are going to be using space, soul, and time.

    Reality stone will always have it's uses but I've already seen top players deal with it no problem.

    Reality stone will always be super strong at low level play so they might nerf it, but hopefully they don't so I can scrub out some wins online lol.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse ALL HAIL THE HOLY PHARAOH Joined: Posts: 8,144
    I think reality stone is going to fall off pretty hard later on. I think most of the optimized teams are going to be using space, soul, and time.

    Reality stone will always have it's uses but I've already seen top players deal with it no problem.

    Reality stone will always be super strong at low level play so they might nerf it, but hopefully they don't so I can scrub out some wins online lol.

    No Power? Power Stone has one of the better surges and a TOD-enabling storm.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 844
    I think reality stone is going to fall off pretty hard later on. I think most of the optimized teams are going to be using space, soul, and time.

    Reality stone will always have it's uses but I've already seen top players deal with it no problem.

    Reality stone will always be super strong at low level play so they might nerf it, but hopefully they don't so I can scrub out some wins online lol.

    It only looks powerful because people don't know how to pushblock the orb properly or what to do when you have a floating ball in your face. I agree within time it will fall off as people stop being so intimidated by it and know how to handle those situations, but I also agree with 5 above that Power will be top too because some characters *cough Zero cough* have enough tools of their own that the potential of ToD is too great.
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,551
    I think reality stone is going to fall off pretty hard later on. I think most of the optimized teams are going to be using space, soul, and time.

    Reality stone will always have it's uses but I've already seen top players deal with it no problem.

    Reality stone will always be super strong at low level play so they might nerf it, but hopefully they don't so I can scrub out some wins online lol.

    No Power? Power Stone has one of the better surges and a TOD-enabling storm.


    The surge is ok but I think the storms that actually help land a hit are going to be more important.

    Only Tod's I've seen need full infinity stone meter and if your at full meter and still need a tod, that means your getting your ass whooped and probably won't land the hit to even make use of it lol
  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    I don't think pushblock reflecting reality stone is a good enough counter to stop its effectiveness. Because it tracks you, you have to go out of your way to run into it then actually time the reflect. So the opponent already has you drastically changing your gameplay just by putting it out there, which is pretty ridiculous considering its such a low commitment move. Even if you do reflect it, the issue is is that its probably run out of most of its duration by then so it won't reflect far enough to actually become a problem for the opponent. So whilst your still worrying about reflecting a little red ball, your opponent is already three steps ahead in their layers of offense.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,261 mod
    I don't think pushblock reflecting reality stone is a good enough counter to stop its effectiveness. Because it tracks you, you have to go out of your way to run into it then actually time the reflect. So the opponent already has you drastically changing your gameplay just by putting it out there, which is pretty ridiculous considering its such a low commitment move. Even if you do reflect it, the issue is is that its probably run out of most of its duration by then so it won't reflect far enough to actually become a problem for the opponent. So whilst your still worrying about reflecting a little red ball, your opponent is already three steps ahead in their layers of offense.

    Which stone are you using BTW? I figured being a dedicated zoner guy you would love the stone. Once they nerf reality surge the HAM floodgates come through with no repercussions.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    I'm just using Fchamps main team with Space stone at the moment. I think Space is good for holding the lead and forcing someone else to wait their turn a few times in the match. But I don't think it has great comeback potential and the mixups you can get in the box aren't as potent as I thought they would be. Overall it seems like a solid stone though.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,551
    I actually forgot about power stones ability to negate push block. That shit will definitely be used in the long run.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse ALL HAIL THE HOLY PHARAOH Joined: Posts: 8,144
    Power Stone with tridash characters is really OP
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,801
    Power Stone with tridash characters is really OP

    No more op then just them hitting you crossup anyway?

    I mean powerstone is literally slower than what ultrons mixup options are to begin with.
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