MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

1192022242546

Comments

  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,548
    I think he is talking about the storm. Can't push block them to create space, so they can pretty much do whatever mix up they want
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    Pretty sure he meant Power Storm with tridash. No pushblock = lol I'm in your face forever.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,785
    I am not so scared of that!

    mostly cause i keep on forgetting to pushblock so it doesn't make a diff to me anyway.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,778
    So end of week 2, any updated tier lists? I don't really know where to put zero or x anymore but I think people
    haven't really been playing either properly that I'm playing.
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,081
    edited October 1
    So end of week 2, any updated tier lists? I don't really know where to put zero or x anymore but I think people
    haven't really been playing either properly that I'm playing.

    Arachnophobia Tier = Spiderman with Reality Stone + corresponding setup partner.

    High Tier and below = The rest.
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,778
    Sounds legit.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,785
    Everyone was gaga for captain marvel but then nobody wants to play her.

    Champ was all like shes super top tier then immediately went back to ultron.

    That's my meta and tier discussion statement!!!!!!!!
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    So end of week 2, any updated tier lists? I don't really know where to put zero or x anymore but I think people
    haven't really been playing either properly that I'm playing.

    Zero is probably top 5 at worst top 10. X id probably low tier.
  • ShiroZXShiroZX Joined: Posts: 55
    Vyomesh wrote: »
    UnSaxon51 wrote: »
    So, uh, remember how Gamora's guns are basically a big "fuck you" to other projectiles?
    And y'know how we were saying Spider-Man might be slightly slept on?

    Apparently Web Zip works the same way.
    It completely ignores projectile interaction AND gives immediate follow-up opportunity.
    Spidey is seriously making a case to become my main character.

    That's a nice Super you got there.
    Would be a shame if someone...
    Web zipped it
    :3

    Damn. Spidey has always been so underrated imo, it's good to have him back, can't wait to play him and web zip all over the supers :^)
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    Just found stupid good setups with Arthur and strider off of mindstone:

    Arthur:

    Mindstone then

    Jhk xx qcb lp (repeat 4 times) Land then instant overhead j.lp xx tag or cr.lk chain (the hitstun decay gets big enough to where the cr.lk and j.lp will both uncombo. This is a completely unseeable mixup)

    I can also do cute shit with Arthur like doing the j.lp up then canceling into a delayed jhk that will crossup and tag that crossup, or do the j.hk early for a non crossup into tag... this is also near unseeable when timed right.

    Strider can mindstone then get gram loops... which are demoralizing cause they last so long.

    LOL.

    Also, Arthur upclose is a headache... the unseeable instant overhead mixed with the jhk overhead jump cancel overhead into a low.

    Haha, to good.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • SHwoKingSHwoKing Joined: Posts: 86
    Tried Arthur yesterday too and is j.HK overhead was weird. If you do it ASAP for instant overhead, CPU was able to block it while stay crouch. Had to delay the j.HK after the jump a little to be OH. I should try it on myself to check if it works that way on a human player.

    People say that scaling on Mind Stone Surge is too much but they forgot it deals 1000 damage first and this damage is not part of the combo after. You can do easy 3000+ combo after so basically it is a 4000+ throw, not to bad.

    Also, I have to study it further but seems like switching while in a combo reset the only one OTG / one wall bounce / one ground bounce rules as you can get a second ground bounce in the same combo when you switch just after the first one and relaunch.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,785
    If you instant j.hk with arthur it won't counter as an overhead, you can see it yourself it will hit as "high". You gotta wait a smidge to hit the button for it to count as OH.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    SHwoKing wrote: »
    Tried Arthur yesterday too and is j.HK overhead was weird. If you do it ASAP for instant overhead, CPU was able to block it while stay crouch. Had to delay the j.HK after the jump a little to be OH. I should try it on myself to check if it works that way on a human player.

    People say that scaling on Mind Stone Surge is too much but they forgot it deals 1000 damage first and this damage is not part of the combo after. You can do easy 3000+ combo after so basically it is a 4000+ throw, not to bad.

    Also, I have to study it further but seems like switching while in a combo reset the only one OTG / one wall bounce / one ground bounce rules as you can get a second ground bounce in the same combo when you switch just after the first one and relaunch.

    Yeah in training mode it uncombos if you don't hit the opponent ASAP, but it keeps the scaling and stuff anyways... weird. Arthur's instant jhk is a mid but if you time it just right it's a high...there's not that big a difference between the mid and the high. An easier way to get the high is to do an instant double jump jhk... done to fast it can still be mid but it's kinda hard to do it that fast.

    Also, Arthur's instant jhk has a built in mixup if the opponent is locked down or doesn't pushblock... you can double jump cancel the first j.hk into another jhk and that one will ALWAYS be an overhead, or you can land and go low. So this makes Arthur's lockdown mixup pretty strong because you can just sit there doing the overhead stuff or not or go for the instant overhead j.lp which if you are in dantes million dollars or something will combo into the super.

    Arthur isn't easy but I think he's a force in this game... lots of tools.

    I think strider might become a force as well, but his damage is pretty low and his neutral isn't the greatest outside of teleports and stuff, still though he also has some strong tools.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843
    Noticed something interesting today, Dante is a good example of visualising pre jump frames. You can instant air his hammer, but if you do it fast enough you can cancel it into lp guns. So essentially you're doing guns in pre jump frames but you're also doing hammer on the ground. I don't know exactly how many but there's possibly 5-10 pre jump frames, it's enough to see part of the hammer animation with the human eye.
  • SHwoKingSHwoKing Joined: Posts: 86
    edited October 2
    Dante is currently the best character in the game.

    Very good neutral, very damaging combo even without meter, can create huge set up for the other characters with Crazy Dance and Million Dollar. Instant OH or d.LK->Stinger, d.LK->d+HK mixup. Easy wall carry, etc..., etc... He has everything except that Spidey 100% lol.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843
    edited October 2
    SHwoKing wrote: »
    Dante is currently the best character in the game.

    Very good neutral, very damaging combo even without meter, can create huge set up for the other characters with Crazy Dance and Million Dollar. Instant OH or d.LK->Stinger, d.LK->d+HK mixup. Easy wall carry, etc..., etc... He has everything except that Spidey 100% lol.

    j.hp, s.hp, c.hp, sj.hp, ad/f.hp, jc.hp, qcf+hk, c.hp, sj.hp, ad/f.hp, jc.hp, qcf+ hp, qcb+hp, lp, AS.........

    Lol. It's super basic bed and breakfast does like 60% and you get a ton of shit off of it. I'm not sure I'd call him best in the game just yet but I'd say Dante, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel and Dormammu are in the top 5. Captain Marvel has a projectile invulnerable armour that costs nothing, she doesn't care about reality, super busted.
    Post edited by flicky on
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,061
    Dante is a character that by design will be top 10 minimum in every game just off design. He has too many moves to ever be worse than that. I knew he wouldn't be worse than high mid tier at the least. He was top 10 in umvc3 despite people not realizing what he could do until midway through. Dante likely never leave that upper echelon of characters unless they put a hit out on him.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • SHwoKingSHwoKing Joined: Posts: 86
    For me Dante is the best just because you can pair him with anyone, it's always a good choice.
    Same goes for Ultron IMO but he is not as strong as Dante. Quiet Close though.

    Spidey is definitely strong but he absolutely needs another character top set him up or he will have problem to get in against good zoning. Chun Li is quiet the same. I wanted to paired them but they both suffer from the same weakness.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843


    Probably escapable still haven't tested it but it could be wittled down to a single frame so pretty hard for people to AS if they can't CS.
  • SHwoKingSHwoKing Joined: Posts: 86
    flicky wrote: »
    Probably escapable still haven't tested it but it could be wittled down to a single frame so pretty hard for people to AS if they can't CS.

    Awaiting for the space stone 100% lol . Pretty sure it is possible with Dante / Nemesis with just one bar of Super. And maybe Spidey with two bars.

  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843
    edited October 2


    Power Stone doesn't add much damage, but this is showing good setup potential if it can make 100%, might mess with reality.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843


    Lv.3 is scaled to fuck.

    Let me know if you can't see the videos.
  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,682
    Why can't you counter switch Spidey's infinite?
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843


    Mind Stone!!! I wonder how many active frames Mind Stone has, because technically you could just set this up meaty and it would be inescapable.
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843
    willseless wrote: »
    Why can't you counter switch Spidey's infinite?
    Possibly because you have to hold CS for a certain amount of time and by the time you're able to CS you're hit by the next web ball.
  • p1nkt1t5p1nkt1t5 Joined: Posts: 646
    What would the tiers look like for support characters? And would it be different with stone select?
    SFV: Cammy, Yun
    SF4: Yun

    1HC to Super Makes SFV Satisfactory

    http://makeagif.com/gif/1hc-to-super-TOpukQ

    When I Miss, Salt >:(

    http://makeagif.com/gif/1hc-to-super-miss-Y4J9bL
  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    This game will end up having 'didn't get to play' syndrome just as much as MVC3 imo, maybe even worse. It basically boils down to one touch into one guaranteed 50/50 reset then GG. Because one character comebacks won't really be a thing without soul stone (even then its not easy) and counter switch is easily punished. I think Dante/Dorm embodies this gameplay the most at the moment so that is my pick for the best team in the game right now. Dantes neutral is completely busted and so is Dorms setplay, so its the perfect combination.

    There was a big difference in gameplay between the grand finals at northwest majors with Ironman and Jedah in GF's vs Milan games cup which was a Dante/Dorm mirror. There was alot more back and forth and neutral in the former whereas the latter was almost UMVC3 Firebrand levels of flowchart.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod
    edited October 2
    This game will end up having 'didn't get to play' syndrome just as much as MVC3 imo, maybe even worse. It basically boils down to one touch into one guaranteed 50/50 reset then GG. Because one character comebacks won't really be a thing without soul stone (even then its not easy) and counter switch is easily punished. I think Dante/Dorm embodies this gameplay the most at the moment so that is my pick for the best team in the game right now. Dantes neutral is completely busted and so is Dorms setplay, so its the perfect combination.

    There was a big difference in gameplay between the grand finals at northwest majors with Ironman and Jedah in GF's vs Milan games cup which was a Dante/Dorm mirror. There was alot more back and forth and neutral in the former whereas the latter was almost UMVC3 Firebrand levels of flowchart.

    And in not very surprising the fashion the Reality Dorm/Dante player lost clean sweep to the Soul Dorm/Dante player. Hopefully we'll see reality win something soon.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    edited October 2
    Soul stone seems like a double edged sword at the moment. On the one hand its like the only true comeback stone. On the other its easy happy birthday fodder. Probably the hardest stone to get results with but definitely worth putting time into.
    Post edited by Cheech Wizard on
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • TMNTempsTMNTemps brozhear Joined: Posts: 4,235
    edited October 2
    Everyone was gaga for captain marvel but then nobody wants to play her.

    Champ was all like shes super top tier then immediately went back to ultron.

    That's my meta and tier discussion statement!!!!!!!!

    she is missing two things that make Ultron so playable

    her crossup totally sucks

    and she has no lockdown special move so her partner synergy is 1 bar = great, no bars = better reality stone + tag

    also no solo confirms off beam like Ultron gets off helper beam, Ultron air drone is a good tool that hits at an angle she can't really cover without taking a risk, stuff like that. she's still good but Ultron is the same, but better kind of deal
    GGXrd - Sol // SFV - Ken
    SFV Ken Okizeme Lessons
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 843
    edited October 2
    Am I the only one thinking that people are switching more often than they should be, simply because it's quick and easy? As crazy as it is, people's defence will get better and there will be more risks to switching being exposed. It's so easy to beam-tag-wtf but when you have CS, what seems reasonably safe adds a whole new layer to the meta where people will actually have to think about what they're doing, or at least think about the risks of what they're doing, instead going for guarenteed damage and knowing the safety of the string they're doing.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod
    edited October 2
    Soul stone seems like a double edged sword at the moment. On the one hand its like the only true comeback stone. On the other its easy happy birthday fodder. Probably the hardest stone to get results with but definitely worth putting time into.

    It's basically what Phoenix should have been. Actually have enough risk to compensate coming back to life.

    Double edged sword is basically what it should feel like and the fact that it can still viably place highly and win events with that risk to it shows solid balance. At least so far.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    flicky wrote: »
    Am I the only one thinking that people are switching more often than they should be, simply because it's quick and easy? As crazy as it is, people's defence will get better and there will be more risks to switching being exposed. It's so easy to beam-tag-wtf but when you have CS, what seems reasonably safe adds a whole new layer to the meta where people will actually have to think about what they're doing, or at least think about the risks of what they're doing, instead going for guarenteed damage and knowing the safety of the string they're doing.

    Naw, I think people should be switching more if anything.

    It's risky sure, but that's marvel. It's the same as having an assist. You assist at the wrong time and you pay... you have to protect your assist/tag when you use it. People aren't yet adept at the protection thing so shit happens.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    Wow, pushblock autoguard is disabled during blocked multihit supers (or at least dantes) that's pretty fucked up. I was thinking of using the autoguard to get around the super mixups but if it's deactivated during supers that literally mean that supers, especially ones like dantes million dollars are quite possibly the best moves in the game.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod
    edited October 2
    Yeah you're fighting the power if you're not using a multi hit beam/full screen projectile/attack super character. Pretty much going to be a requirement to win tournament events if it doesn't get changed.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.

    Works more similar to how it does in Marvel 2 and Skullgirls. The pushblock doesn't push you a million miles away without using an assist.

    A lot of the beam projectiles and certain other projectile specials negate the pushback from pushblock. Like Iron Man's unibeam and Jedah's spirals lock the opponent down completely and don't get pushed back at all. Gamora's guns are like this too.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,344
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.

    I've heard that if you perfect push block you can get out of block stun sooner and punish thibgs you normally wouldn't be able.
  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,601

    Works more similar to how it does in Marvel 2 and Skullgirls. The pushblock doesn't push you a million miles away without using an assist.

    A lot of the beam projectiles and certain other projectile specials negate the pushback from pushblock. Like Iron Man's unibeam and Jedah's spirals lock the opponent down completely and don't get pushed back at all. Gamora's guns are like this too.

    Thanks so it seems like you really just have to take shit and just git gud at blocking most the time. I feel like this game may need invincible crossover counters back. I think it'd be fair to spend a meter to get out of all the lockdown>50/50 situations that come up a number of times during the match. There arent really any great defensive options at the moment.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod

    Works more similar to how it does in Marvel 2 and Skullgirls. The pushblock doesn't push you a million miles away without using an assist.

    A lot of the beam projectiles and certain other projectile specials negate the pushback from pushblock. Like Iron Man's unibeam and Jedah's spirals lock the opponent down completely and don't get pushed back at all. Gamora's guns are like this too.

    Thanks so it seems like you really just have to take shit and just git gud at blocking most the time. I feel like this game may need invincible crossover counters back. I think it'd be fair to spend a meter to get out of all the lockdown>50/50 situations that come up a number of times during the match. There arent really any great defensive options at the moment.

    Yeah that's really been a trend for Marvel 3, SFV and generally any later Capcom fighter. Defensive options aren't too strong. Marvel 3 took out invincible assists, SFV got rid of frame 1 DPs and now this game has lockdown supers that shut off your counter switch and leave pretty much no gap to poke or even invincible move out of. Later Capcom games pretty much force you to use preemptive movement and hit boxes to deal with shit. Once you're locked down you better hope something gives you space or you're eating a combo.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


Sign In or Register to comment.