MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

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  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,280
    edited December 2017
    What am I missing about Gamora/Zero? It seems like an obviously good team but you don't see any pro players using it.

    I think I'm still lost on good team comp in this game because it seems much more fluid than the last two games due to the lack of assists, tag actually being safe, and the stones.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    edited December 2017
    Bill wrote: »
    What am I missing about Gamora/Zero? It seems like an obviously good team but you don't see any pro players using it.

    I think I'm still lost on good team comp in this game because it seems much more fluid than the last two games due to the lack of assists, tag actually being safe, and the stones.

    Team composition is a bit easier in some ways. Marvel 3 kinda forced team composition because not everyone had a safe on block super, not everyone could OTG into full combo and not everyone had the meta defining beam/projectile assist. Plus things like needing to pick from characters that could TAC or ToD reliably and were derpy in XF etc.

    Now every character can make Iron Man's supers safe by just tagging, when before in Marvel 2 or 3 you had to pair him with someone else that had a safe super or else he couldn't function properly.

    It's easier to make a team in this game than in the 3v3 Marvels, but there's still the best stuff to make a team around. Such as characters that have strong pressure, invincible specials or supers and picking them with space or soul stones as those are still the best stones post patch. The other stones are trying to play catch up to them, but they require more tech and building a team around. Space and Soul are already ridiculous just by adding most characters to them, then get more ridiculous when you build tech around them.





    Gamora and Zero are really good because, it's Gamora and Zero. It's kinda like the team I use Morrigan/Gamora with Time where the two characters don't necessarily super support one another, but they're pretty good at playing self sufficiently and Gamora's guns generically prepare good lockdown for Morrigan to rush in and land a hit. I mainly play them because I like time stone and they both have oppressive projectile stuff with their activation supers and time storm. They compliment each other pretty well in the storm.

    Nemo last I saw him was using Nova/Gamora which I also think is a pretty strong team where both characters compliment each other pretty well. Both characters are decent in the air while having a strong tools for tagging opponents that are staying in the air too long. Both have somewhat invincible supers and both can help lock down for each other well. I use them as my side team with mind stone since they both have strong supers and can slip in surge grabs when people block too long.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,280
    That's pretty much what I was thinking. Just seemed odd that you don't see any pros using the team but, for instance, you see Rayray playing Ultron/Gamora which seems kinda similar in terms of synergy
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    Yeah it just takes time for certain teams to develop more into a meta. There are enough characters/teams that have proven to be strong enough where people are just gonna do what works for them for now. Like Zero/Dante is already good enough so there's no specific reason to use Zero/Gamora other than if you like Gamora better or there's certain matchups you feel Gamora does better in than Dante.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Why do people run from me? Joined: Posts: 979
    flicky wrote: »


    Decided to experiment a little. Time surge and space surge x axis interactions, space surge will either cancel time surge or propel it depending on when space is used. Conclusion? I think space surge > time surge.

    This reminds me of the work Joo and Magnetro did later in Marvel 2's life more specifically with y-boost, except in this case it's x-boost. I'm going to experiment more with this as it works with specials as well, it's nothing ground breaking just fun behaviour but it will be interesting to see if the same principles apply, and you can manipulate the dummy's x-axis momentum through your own movements of the properties of other abilities.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    Quick update on my tier list.

    Dead last: Black Panther.

    Just salty, played against a Sigma and Black Panther could do nothing but hold them shoulders. I tried the pushblock punish, stubby assed normals.
    I thought I was playing Rocket Raccoon.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    I think Power BP is the way to go. Just fly around the screen and press buttons into surge or just hit surge and 50/50 people all day into easy conversions.


    I was watching Cloud's stream and found out that Winter Solider's grenades work like Rolento's knives. You can just hit them and they disappear. So between that and reflecting them you got plenty of options to deal with it.

    He also said that he thinks it's funny that Coon went under the radar for the nerfs. Says he doesn't think his trap super should last as long as it does or being able to attack it should eventually remove it. He also says it's cheap that he can have 2 traps and groot out at the same time. Interesting to hear any way.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • coinjamcoinjam Joined: Posts: 5
    What’s up guys? First time poster. I decided to get in on this unblockable fun before it’s removed and came up with a nice backstab setup for jedah. With a clean cross up and 2 bars to start you get a dead character.

    I feel like a lot of characters should be able to set up something similar. As long as they’ve got good overheads from hyper hops they’re likely to have jump loops after cross ups. Something to play around with before/if this gets fixed.

  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 3,706
    coinjam wrote: »
    What’s up guys? First time poster. I decided to get in on this unblockable fun before it’s removed and came up with a nice backstab setup for jedah. With a clean cross up and 2 bars to start you get a dead character.

    I feel like a lot of characters should be able to set up something similar. As long as they’ve got good overheads from hyper hops they’re likely to have jump loops after cross ups. Something to play around with before/if this gets fixed.


    That combo was OD.
    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    edited December 2017
    I think Power BP is the way to go. Just fly around the screen and press buttons into surge or just hit surge and 50/50 people all day into easy conversions.


    I was watching Cloud's stream and found out that Winter Solider's grenades work like Rolento's knives. You can just hit them and they disappear. So between that and reflecting them you got plenty of options to deal with it.

    He also said that he thinks it's funny that Coon went under the radar for the nerfs. Says he doesn't think his trap super should last as long as it does or being able to attack it should eventually remove it. He also says it's cheap that he can have 2 traps and groot out at the same time. Interesting to hear any way.

    Yet he's not top 3. Stop crying Cloud. Dante player with 1000 moves ha! Pop the trap son. Although I bitch about Dante, Zero and the like I'm still more pro buff. Nerfing characters into the ground you can have them lose their identity but rarely will a buff be frowned upon as long as it doesn't make them to OP.
  • flickyflicky Why do people run from me? Joined: Posts: 979
    edited December 2017
    coinjam wrote: »
    What’s up guys? First time poster. I decided to get in on this unblockable fun before it’s removed and came up with a nice backstab setup for jedah. With a clean cross up and 2 bars to start you get a dead character.

    I feel like a lot of characters should be able to set up something similar. As long as they’ve got good overheads from hyper hops they’re likely to have jump loops after cross ups. Something to play around with before/if this gets fixed.


    That's both awesome and dumb, Coon trap into death. The dev team specifically wanted no unblockables so I say get rid of this shit.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    edited December 2017
    Looks a lot like my Venom/Coon unblockable. Had my first hate message on Steam doing it too.
    Basically use Venom trap with Coon jump over and repeat until dead. I can work the other way too.

  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,939
    How do you do it with Venom? They always air recover. Do you have to hit pretty early in the trap, like it happens with crumpled opponents?
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    @WorstPlayer I just watched FilthieRich replay and he's using Power WS/BP.


    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    I see a guy who gets opened up by slow overheads. Happens, but nice to see someone putting in time
    on such an ass on paper character.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    Yeah I just wanted to know if you were doing those bnbs with BP or had something better.

    Plus he's using Power BP which I definitely think is his best stone.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    My BnB's are super basic and net similar damage, leading to up arrows with MH to continue in a similar fashion. I actually play the team with Time or Mind Stone.
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 See you next fight... Joined: Posts: 4,313
    edited December 2017
    I need to figure out how to optimize Time Storm better.

    EDIT: Wrong thread
    NNID/XboxLive/Steam: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • coinjamcoinjam Joined: Posts: 5
    Alright guys, still trying to get Jedah to broken status. Dash canceled drills are just too much fun.

  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    Good stuff with time storm. I imagine some of that is kinda easy to pushblock, but with a partner you can lock them down for sure. He seems to have decent combos into time storm any ways so that's good for confirming and starting.


    My new side team (and possible main team depending) was going to be Space Jedah/BW, but I've been hearing a lot of how cheap Time Natalia is so most likely will learn both Time and Space for that team.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • coinjamcoinjam Joined: Posts: 5
    Most of those were strings were meant to show off what options are possible(high/low/left/right/grab), including responses to push block. Drill cancels can pretty much negate pushblock with Jedah’s ground/air dash. If you ground dash you get the option to drill again with lk/hk depending on the opponents position. If you don’t want to be precise with a drill just throw out a lk somersault and cancel that into a drill once it’s blocked. There’s so many paths available.

    Also, personal bias here, time is Jedah’s best stone and if you’re gonna learn that you might as well throw strider onto your team. Strider with time surge and orbs is a human projectile that ignores durability and sets up lockdown for Jedah’s high/low game off tag. Plus strider puts in tons of work with Jedah’s setplay which means meter can be burnt for orbs without worrying too much about kills.

    It’s a really fun team.
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,760
    Pretty cool time storm stuff with Jedah. Still wouldn't say time stone is better than space stone though. Space locks you in place and doesn't allow tag outs, so Jedah is free to run his strong mixups anyway and pretty much guarantee a kill
  • CharadesCharades Joined: Posts: 20
    Coin, how do use the teleport in neutral with jedah? I imagine there is some pretty crazy pinwheel into teleport settings. Especially on incoming
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    edited December 2017
    People most don't know how to use time stones surge. Even with BP I found some stupid shit. It's not hard and this drill shit will 3asily get ambigous. I like space because I like predictable.
  • flickyflicky Why do people run from me? Joined: Posts: 979
    Pretty cool time storm stuff with Jedah. Still wouldn't say time stone is better than space stone though. Space locks you in place and doesn't allow tag outs, so Jedah is free to run his strong mixups anyway and pretty much guarantee a kill

    I'd say Time surge and Space surge are neck and neck. Space surge effects the acceleration of time surge however time surge recovers faster and can punish space surge. The armour on space surge, and the invulnerability on time surge, are equally useful in their own ways.

    The box is strong, very strong, but the speed and ability to cancel anything into anything gives you unlimited possibility for block strings and AG bait, while the box only prevents the dummy from moving and switching. They're pretty even imo, but I favour Time over Space, it just has more benefits in the neutral imo and enhances a players front better than Space does.
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,760
    I'm just talking about Jedah. In neutral you want to be able to pull people into your pinwheels. Also, Jedah already has unreactable mixups so be able to lock them in place without being able to counter switch is just too good to pass up.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    My friendly neighborhood Jedah is putting this to work. Scary stuff. He was already a pretty good time stone user because he hated my trap game. I'd still say space is better in general, but matchup wise time could prove more useful.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    Space is definitely Jedah's best stone as the pinwheels are much more oppressive and can fight zoning better when you can space surge people into them. The pinwheels are easier to maneuver around or shoot through when you're not using space. Space surge makes them much more powerful both for zoning and offense. Plus Jedah can set up basically near inescapable meaties during space storm into pinwheels that lock you down for mix up and near guaranteed level 3.

    Time Stone has some good stuff for Jedah in the storm and time surge is nice to help him get in suddenly or escape a corner, but he doesn't really benefit too much from being anymore mobile as you can't really place the pinwheels too far away from where you are any way. Like if you're fighting Dorm or Doctor Strange you might as well have space as otherwise they will just keep putting shit on the screen to zone you out as you're flying around with the surge. Time Storm does have some good stuff, but Space storm is also arguably his other best storm and space surge is definitely his best surge.




    I think like Worst Player said though, there's probably certain matchups where time stone could be more useful and with the way Natalia's sticky bomb works, the time surge alone could make time her best stone. You pretty much get unreactable 50/50 as long as you're anywhere near them before the bomb goes off. I'm sure she has some cute stuff in the storm as well.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • coinjamcoinjam Joined: Posts: 5
    Haha like I said, it’s personal bias behind my opinion. I just think in most matchups that will matter, time will be more useful. Jedah can get trapped pretty easily because he lacks both a useable wave dash and dynamic air dashes. I’ll take the ability to stay out of a variety of bad situations rather than the ability to create a single bad one for the opponent.

    I just think the windup for pinwheel plus the need to space surge at least twice, realistically, to create blockstun is giving the opponent too much time to establish counter measures. Not to say it’s not good, it’s powerful as hell, but there’s answers. My Jedah/Strider/Time team doesn’t care too much about it since I can vajra, jet pack, surge x tag, or with orbs active just surge to turn into an invincible cannonball as strider to create blockstun while you set up.

    It does come down to matchups but I feel like time counters space. Not to mention the fact that when playing as runaway jedah you’re time surging in the air as much as possible+abusing orbs and surge as strider which means you’re building storm very quickly. If you can build your storm first, the box won’t matter since you can deny it.

  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I can vouch for Jedah with time stone and I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Jedah with time stone is super good. Pinwheel setups into surge are dirty.

    Jedah is an awesome addition to the cast and Capcom made him right. However, I didnt stick with Jedah or time stone because I find Jedahs stray hit confirms tricky and because reality stone was super buff pre-patch.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    edited January 1
    Yeah it's just usually you already have to be rushing down to get into a position to throw pinwheel into time surge and there's certain matchups with very mobile characters where that will be tough to do. As opposed to space where you just throw out pinwheel, press surge and they are forced into the wheel.



    The nice thing about Jedah is the people that do have all of his funky flight confirms down, once you get them down you can basically convert off anything and do huge damage before they even get knocked to the ground. He has derp easy confirms also. Press a button in the air, do qcf+LK sonic spin, air super then either do knockdown into qcb+P capture state move or tag in partner and do stuff. That's the online special.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Why do people run from me? Joined: Posts: 979
    Yeah it's just usually you already have to be rushing down to get into a position to throw pinwheel into time surge and there's certain matchups with very mobile characters where that will be tough to do. As opposed to space where you just throw out pinwheel, press surge and they are forced into the wheel.



    The nice thing about Jedah is the people that do have all of his funky flight confirms down, once you get them down you can basically convert off anything and do huge damage before they even get knocked to the ground. He has derp easy confirms also. Press a button in the air, do qcf+LK sonic spin, air super then either do knockdown into qcb+P capture state move or tag in partner and do stuff. That's the online special.

    Not unless you're faced against a Time player, otherwise the surge negates Space surge completely.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    Space surge vs time surge is weird. I've had times where the time surge works in my favor and other times where you get pulled entirely out of a good spot and then they tag in a partner and you're likely going to get hit.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 2,637
    I struggled with tem building in mvc3 cause my favorite characters had certain pairing that were just too good to ignore but they were a dime a dozen
    anyways i just got this and i wanted to know about the thanos and monster hunter pairing and which stone would you recommend

    I put them together with power stone but I was thinking about time also
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    edited January 3
    Power isn't bad. Neither of those characters really hugely benefit from power since they already have generally pretty easy conversions and derpy buttons. They're not really like pixie characters where the anti pushblock during the storm would help them much. Fast characters benefit from power surge more than more big body type characters who can already swing unga shit into long term hit confirms. Fast characters can easily scramble behind you and press surge and make it cross up.


    Time is good as both characters have good air buttons they can abuse and cancel into time surge to put them into a different position on the screen. Could mess with their cancel properties in the time storm to see what cool stuff they get neutrally in the storm. Likely have some decent time storm combos also. Plus the surge generally improves their movement greatly and Monster Hunter already becomes pretty OD with her cancels and movement in demon mode.


    Space is good for them because space is good for everybody and they both have specials that you can throw out and pull people into. Soul is good also because they both have stuff that's good to spam during the storm and can kinda force their hand during it.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Why do people run from me? Joined: Posts: 979
    edited January 4
    Something I'm really struggling with is something we haven't talked a whole lot about and that's team dynamics/structure/format. Past Marvel games have been very clear, for instance MvC2 was mainly structured as battery/main/assist each with certain purposes, MvC3 was a little bit different and could possibly be described as shell1/shell2/anchor, but with Infinite I'm honestly not sure how to describe team dynamics in this way, or whether we've even reached the stage where we understand enough to be able to do so.

    I get some of the concepts in this game, but I struggle to understand the overall goal. For instance, it seems for a lot of players matchups don't really matter, or perhaps matchups just can't be defined in a traditional sense. Players favour one particular move, lariat for example, and they base their gameplan around that (spam lariat, switch and win), people don't seem to be thinking about whether Dante is a better matchup against Ultron, or some shit like that, it's as if classic matchups aren't being considered or aren't needed, and that's where I'm lost.

    For example, Sentinel/Storm/Commando is a counter pick to Storm/Sentinel/Commando, you know? There was a clear advantage to playing Sentinel on point sometimes. But in Infinite, I don't see that. I play Winter Soldier mostly, so my mind set is, play the keepaway game, build a bit of Infinity, land my hit confirm and then switch and go in for damage; where as another mind set might be just to walk forward and do qcb+p and switch just for the fuck of it because qcb+p has sick ass properties and is safe with a switch. So I'm kind of lost as to how to approach my team dynamics; what is the purpose of my point character? What is the purpose of my second character? What words do I use to specifically define their purpose? How to I put that into a format?

    That's where I'm blank, I look at the character select and can't make sense of my gameplan because there's so many strategies I can't fit character to character and say "yeah this is a good idea!" I play WinterSoldier/Venom, Winter Soldier has sick hit confirms, Venom has a full screen switch dash, boom easy damage. But that's a classical way of thinking, not an infinite way of thinking, sometimes I just qcb+p in their face on GO and people are like wtf while his armour eats all their button presses, and I think, well what the hell was the purpose of that? How do I format that? It might as well be called team Charlie, Scrub/Dante/Winning.

    I really don't get it...
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    The game hasn't been out long enough to define stuff like that and the tag system makes it so that people can basically make their own assists. It's going to be a while before people come up with all of the tag assist options for each character and really define teams and the meta. Just have fun playing for right now.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Why do people run from me? Joined: Posts: 979
    edited January 4
    The game hasn't been out long enough to define stuff like that and the tag system makes it so that people can basically make their own assists. It's going to be a while before people come up with all of the tag assist options for each character and really define teams and the meta. Just have fun playing for right now.
    But this is what I mean, is it even right to call them assists anymore? Terminology gets thrown into the meat grinder with this game. Because, sometimes they're not always providing an additional opportunity for a character as per-se an assist, they're literally providing an opening for the character; they're leading not assisting.

    It's like I've mentioned before, the point character becomes an extension of the second character, so they're almost symbiotic. So character P1A might be a bad matchup with P2A, while P1B might be a good matchup with P2A, that doesn't make sense to run your team like that unless P1A has a move that's really good against P2A, like it has invincibility, or shit tons of armour, or is generally just a good move to throw out there.

    You know, to me that's like scrub mentality, proper YOP, I'm not used to that, I don't know how to build a team based on so many different factors, especially behaviours that I've specifically avoided in the past. To me Winter Soldier is an excellent point character because of his keepaway and hit confirms, but qcb+hp is really really fucking good. So do I play orthodox and start zoning with my main and fish for hits, or do I just Hail Mary with his fucking arm and let Venom do his rip?

    I'm mind fucked, like literally I don't know what the correct mentality is anymore or where it crosses the line of being a scrub. At least one bit of good is that this game allows a wider variety of players to apply strategies that are good for them regardless of how other players have been bred over the years.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 58,764 mod
    Just need more time for the meta to develop. I say it's close enough to an assist as you can release them so quickly that most of the time you can move and do normal things as if they were an assist, just you have to give up using the character to do it.

    It allows neutral to be created in a ton of ways that it couldn't before and it's very diverse between teams. I think eventually you'll have a lot of meta teams where one character does more of the point work and the other does more of the "lead in" work. Like stuff like a Zero/Strange or Morrigan/Monster Hunter. First character is definitely more the point character and the second character has a bunch of tools that can be abused and tagged in with to allow them to occupy was more space on screen than they normally can.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 5,027
    Because this is infinite each team will have combined strats for given situations. You'd be surprised how much mileage I got with
    BP, Uppercut into MH up arrows randomly since it was rendered relatively safe by the tag system in a lot of situations.
    flicky wrote: »
    The game hasn't been out long enough to define stuff like that and the tag system makes it so that people can basically make their own assists. It's going to be a while before people come up with all of the tag assist options for each character and really define teams and the meta. Just have fun playing for right now.
    But this is what I mean, is it even right to call them assists anymore? Terminology gets thrown into the meat grinder with this game. Because, sometimes they're not always providing an additional opportunity for a character as per-se an assist, they're literally providing an opening for the character; they're leading not assisting.

    It's like I've mentioned before, the point character becomes an extension of the second character, so they're almost symbiotic. So character P1A might be a bad matchup with P2A, while P1B might be a good matchup with P2A, that doesn't make sense to run your team like that unless P1A has a move that's really good against P2A, like it has invincibility, or shit tons of armour, or is generally just a good move to throw out there.

    You know, to me that's like scrub mentality, proper YOP, I'm not used to that, I don't know how to build a team based on so many different factors, especially behaviours that I've specifically avoided in the past. To me Winter Soldier is an excellent point character because of his keepaway and hit confirms, but qcb+hp is really really fucking good. So do I play orthodox and start zoning with my main and fish for hits, or do I just Hail Mary with his fucking arm and let Venom do his rip?

    I'm mind fucked, like literally I don't know what the correct mentality is anymore or where it crosses the line of being a scrub. At least one bit of good is that this game allows a wider variety of players to apply strategies that are good for them regardless of how other players have been bred over the years.

    I think you're thinking to hard. Just do shit that works with your team versus the opponents playstyle.
    Myself? Even though I like watching the game I'm getting to a point where playing it becoming less and less
    enjoyable. At this point in MVC I was still geeking out over the game. Is it possible that shit looks kind of
    homogenous?
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