Hori RAP 4 - Did I just buy a dud ?

swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
Hi friends, a newbie here. I recently bought a HORI RAP 4 arcade stick from the middle east through a friend of mine working there. I chose the middle east route since the same stick costs roughly about 400 USD in India. That's PS4 console ballpark and I just couldn't justify the extra premium that I had to shell out. So my friend came back to India with the arcade stick and I was pretty excited just to see the packaging let alone the stick. I took the stick home and connected it to the PS4 after watching a few YouTube videos on how to properly connect one. Then came the bummer, the joystick wouldn't register down input *Facepalm*,every other input worked pretty flawlessly. I then started reading on this specific problem online and after scouring through various threads came across the potential cause, that it could be due to a faulty snap action switch in the joystick assembly. I sourced the micro switch that they widely use in arcade cabinets in my town and replaced the original and what I thought was the faulty one with the new micro switch. The stick still didn't respond to the down input and I pretty much concluded that the problem lies elsewhere. And my temporal lobe was like, 'Elsewhere, you mean the bloody PCB, that's rocket science, that's way beyond what a mere mortal like you could fiddle with '. So, I threw a random Hail Mary and entrusted the stick with a friend who said he knew people who work on dual shock controllers and consoles. It has been a while now and when I spoke with him last week he said they were unsure if they could fix it since they weren't familiar with one. It is depressing just to think about the stick now.
Is there any way the stick could be fixed ? Looking forward to valuable suggestions from fellow tech savvy members. Thanks in advance.

Posting a few photos for reference
http://imgur.com/a/dOFGt

Regards
Gautham

Comments

  • FreedomGundamFreedomGundam Freedom, ikimasu! Joined: Posts: 2,533
    Look at the 5-pin connector, and the wires from that to the main PCB.
    Current at-home stick: Hori VLX Kuro (LS-40-01 + PS-14-K)
    Current portable stick: Mad Catz TvC (LS-40-01 + PS-14-KN)
    Current guest-sticks: custom ABS Modular stick (JLF + OBSN-30), custom Saint-stick (Happ/IL Competition)
    Cabinet: custom "Resistor" cabinet (32" LCD, X360, P1=LS-32-01 + PS-14-KN, P2=JLF + OBSC-30)
    Previous sticks: custom Happ CvS2 Double-sticks, custom Happ Hitomi-stick & Xenosaga-stick, custom Sanwa/Seimitsu Neptune-stick and Sylvia-stick, modded Mad Catz TvC, modded Mad Catz Brawlstick, modded Hori FSVX, modded Exar Exaprize

    Looking for:
    CPS2 (green or blue): Hyper SF2
    Naomi GD-ROM: SF Zero3 Upper, Puyo Puyo Fever, Triggerheart Excelica, Ikaruga
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    Sorry about the late reply, I did check the 5-pin connector for defects in soldering and came up with nothing. I checked the wires too, all the way up to the main PCB.
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 503
    Did you use a multimeter or did you just check it visually?
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    Did you use a multimeter or did you just check it visually?

    Just a visual inspection. I just didn't think it through I guess. Right now the arcade stick is with my friend, i'll ask him to check it and I will keep you guys posted. Thanks.
  • kedawakedawa . Joined: Posts: 403
    Did you try just shorting the down lead to ground(just connect the solder points or terminals on the switch with a paper clip)?
    If it registers the down press, then it's the switch that's bad. Otherwise, it's something else.
    Stupid question - did you swap replace the top microswitch on the stick, or the bottom one?
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    Did you try just shorting the down lead to ground(just connect the solder points or terminals on the switch with a paper clip)?
    If it registers the down press, then it's the switch that's bad. Otherwise, it's something else.
    Stupid question - did you swap replace the top microswitch on the stick, or the bottom one?


    I didn't short the switch, but i replaced it with a new one right away.
    I swapped the top microswitch in the arrangement since the shaft makes contact with the microswitch that is located in the opposite direction when we pull the balltop downwards. Cheers mate.
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    A quick update, after numerous visits to various computer repair shops and electronic technicians in and around my city the arcade stick is still not fixed. The one thing that I kept hearing from them repeatedly is that they've never seen an arcade stick. Most of them said that the PCB was faulty and that got me thinking about the Brook PS4+ Audio Fighting Board, well I'm desperate =). If I were to buy one do I need anything else other than the contents listed in this link : https://arcadeworlduk.com/products/brook-ps4-audio-fighting-board-ps4-ps3-pc.html
    # Will the wiring harness be included in the package ?
    # Can I strip off the main and secondary PCBs and rebuild the stick with Brook Fighting board alone ?
    Thanks.
  • AlphaCharlieAlphaCharlie Joined: Posts: 1,095
    edited September 16
    If everything else works EXCEPT pressing down? That leads me to believe you have a simple connection issue.

    Something with the wiring, like a lose connection, like a quick-disconnect not on properly. Or lose wire not making proper connection. No big deal. Just a matter of opening the stick up and giving all your connections a good fine-tuning to make sure things are properly set up.

    Sense you felt the need to actually take the stick to electrical repair shops, that leads me to believe you're just inexperienced. Gotta learn sometime. Don't let it scare you. Arcade sticks are very SIMPLE tech. It's just a hollow box with mounted controls on-top, with wiring connecting to the PCB circuit board, and a cord leaving the box to your console.

    Open it up, examine and get fimiliar with the wiring. Check all your connections, make sure its all tight and snug, no broken solder points, etc, etc. If everything is connected and running, yet no down signal? I suspect the quick-disconnect going to the down switch is just lose with the wire. You may have to chop it off, strip the wire, and clamp on a fresh QD, then reconnect it.


  • StrtFghtrMstrStrtFghtrMstr SRnk1VaBeachAlphaTeam Joined: Posts: 541 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Link up with an Electrical Engineer or student or Clincial/Biomedical Engineer. They should be able to diagnose your issue in 5min.
    Just a veteran player enjoying competitive SFV & the CPT
    -Kaillera veteran (GodWeapon Anti3d)
    -SFA3 Replay Tournament Champion (21-0)
    -Sticks & Setups currently owned
    -Namco w/HFC/SilentKuros/SilentHayabusa-Zippys
    -Namco stock
    -VLX 360 w/JLF+Silent Zippy&uSW mod/OBS-MX Reds+Silent O-Rings/Qanba/Seimetsu/PCBs360VX+HFC4, Jansen x5 19MM Turbo Panel
    -VLX 360 Stock
    -TE-S Six-Axis PCB w/ShinJN adapter
    -H2H setups: Zowie RLH2460HT, Asus VX238H-W & Monoprice 8204
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    @ AlphaCharlie

    "Sense you felt the need to actually take the stick to electrical repair shops, that leads me to believe you're just inexperienced. Gotta learn sometime. Don't let it scare you. Arcade sticks are very SIMPLE tech. It's just a hollow box with mounted controls on-top, with wiring connecting to the PCB circuit board, and a cord leaving the box to your console"

    You guessed it right mate, I'm not familiar with the electrical and electronic stuff. I guess I didn't want to mess something up, anyway after hearing your words of encouragement and Dubon's suggestion I have ordered a Fluke 101 multimeter online to do the basic testing. I've disconnected the joystick and USB cable powering up the stick and the other wiring harness belonging to the switches and buttons from the main PCB. I do have trouble disconnecting the flat cable originating from the touch pad PCB to the main PCB, any pointers ? The multimeter should reach me in a couple of days, will keep you posted. Thanks.

    https://imgur.com/a/SPb6W

    @ StrtFghtrMstr

    "Link up with an Electrical Engineer or student or Clincial/Biomedical Engineer. They should be able to diagnose your issue in 5min."

    I did approach an electrical engineer, but he was reluctant to check the fault. I must admit it has been a difficulty finding tech savvy ones back here.


  • eyeamg0dlyeyeamg0dly Joined: Posts: 61
    have you taken the lever itself apart and checked the connections to that specific microswitch? or do you have another lever to test?
  • StrtFghtrMstrStrtFghtrMstr SRnk1VaBeachAlphaTeam Joined: Posts: 541 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own. You'll have all the tools you need to find the problem now. Read/watch a fee tutorials on how to troubleshoot Normally Open Push Buttons.

    Have you tred to check the inputs on a PC?
    Just a veteran player enjoying competitive SFV & the CPT
    -Kaillera veteran (GodWeapon Anti3d)
    -SFA3 Replay Tournament Champion (21-0)
    -Sticks & Setups currently owned
    -Namco w/HFC/SilentKuros/SilentHayabusa-Zippys
    -Namco stock
    -VLX 360 w/JLF+Silent Zippy&uSW mod/OBS-MX Reds+Silent O-Rings/Qanba/Seimetsu/PCBs360VX+HFC4, Jansen x5 19MM Turbo Panel
    -VLX 360 Stock
    -TE-S Six-Axis PCB w/ShinJN adapter
    -H2H setups: Zowie RLH2460HT, Asus VX238H-W & Monoprice 8204
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,260
    @ AlphaCharlie

    "Sense you felt the need to actually take the stick to electrical repair shops, that leads me to believe you're just inexperienced. Gotta learn sometime. Don't let it scare you. Arcade sticks are very SIMPLE tech. It's just a hollow box with mounted controls on-top, with wiring connecting to the PCB circuit board, and a cord leaving the box to your console"

    You guessed it right mate, I'm not familiar with the electrical and electronic stuff. I guess I didn't want to mess something up, anyway after hearing your words of encouragement and Dubon's suggestion I have ordered a Fluke 101 multimeter online to do the basic testing. I've disconnected the joystick and USB cable powering up the stick and the other wiring harness belonging to the switches and buttons from the main PCB. I do have trouble disconnecting the flat cable originating from the touch pad PCB to the main PCB, any pointers ? The multimeter should reach me in a couple of days, will keep you posted. Thanks.

    https://imgur.com/a/SPb6W

    @ StrtFghtrMstr

    "Link up with an Electrical Engineer or student or Clincial/Biomedical Engineer. They should be able to diagnose your issue in 5min."

    I did approach an electrical engineer, but he was reluctant to check the fault. I must admit it has been a difficulty finding tech savvy ones back here.

    Its not hard to learn

    Best place to start learning the basics, slagcoin.com
    The site is a bit out of date now, like Mid PS3/X360 era, but pretty much everything their still holds true now.

    The electrical side, the actual wiring is just basic electrical. If you can figure out how to make a basic circuit from a battery, a LED Light, some wire and a switch you can wire up a stick.
    Every button, the 4 switches in the joystick, they are all just on/off switches that ether allow or not allow electricity to pass though.

    You are just bridging those switches from their arcade parts to the corresponding contacts of the board below. One contact is Positive and one Negative.
    If you ever hear us say common ground, that is just all switches share the same ground or negative point.
    The signal is made when you push a button thus turning the switch on, which electricity passes though and a chip on the PCB will encode or translate that ON switch as a button input.
    letting go of the button turns the switch off. All arcade buttons really are are just momentary switches. And a joystick is just four momentary switches attached to a lever, one for up, down, left and right.



    Analog buttons/triggers are like a turn style volume knob or light dimmer switch (usually the trigger tuns a pot that adjust resistance), with an analog joystick having two pots, one for the X and one for the Y Axis.
    The amount of electricity passing though the pot translate to how hard you press

    PotAlone-500.jpg
    Analog pot, often use for volume knobs on old stereos

    10-x-For-Xbox-360-3d-font-b-Analog-b-font-Stick-Sensor-Potentiometers-Repair-Parts.jpg
    Analog Joystick, see the two green things are pots, and there buttons that act as the R3/L3 buttons (black round thing).


    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    eyeamg0dly wrote: »
    have you taken the lever itself apart and checked the connections to that specific microswitch? or do you have another lever to test?

    I took the joystick assembly apart and swapped the microswitch in question with a new one sometime back. I'm waiting for the multimeter to reach my place to check the connections, should take a couple of days. No, I don't have another lever. Will keep you posted on any updates, thanks.


    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own. You'll have all the tools you need to find the problem now. Read/watch a fee tutorials on how to troubleshoot Normally Open Push Buttons.

    Have you tred to check the inputs on a PC?

    The Fluke 101 should reach me in a couple of days, pretty excited to do the testing. I will definitely follow up with your suggestions and read the basics. I connected the stick to my PC, every button input and every other directional input bar the downward input posted on the properties tab in the game controllers window. I couldn't check the arcade stick in an actual game (Mortal Kombat in my steam library) since my GTX 460 died on me recently. I will keep you posted, thanks.
    Darksakul wrote: »
    @ AlphaCharlie

    "Sense you felt the need to actually take the stick to electrical repair shops, that leads me to believe you're just inexperienced. Gotta learn sometime. Don't let it scare you. Arcade sticks are very SIMPLE tech. It's just a hollow box with mounted controls on-top, with wiring connecting to the PCB circuit board, and a cord leaving the box to your console"

    You guessed it right mate, I'm not familiar with the electrical and electronic stuff. I guess I didn't want to mess something up, anyway after hearing your words of encouragement and Dubon's suggestion I have ordered a Fluke 101 multimeter online to do the basic testing. I've disconnected the joystick and USB cable powering up the stick and the other wiring harness belonging to the switches and buttons from the main PCB. I do have trouble disconnecting the flat cable originating from the touch pad PCB to the main PCB, any pointers ? The multimeter should reach me in a couple of days, will keep you posted. Thanks.

    https://imgur.com/a/SPb6W

    @ StrtFghtrMstr

    "Link up with an Electrical Engineer or student or Clincial/Biomedical Engineer. They should be able to diagnose your issue in 5min."

    I did approach an electrical engineer, but he was reluctant to check the fault. I must admit it has been a difficulty finding tech savvy ones back here.

    Its not hard to learn

    Best place to start learning the basics, slagcoin.com
    The site is a bit out of date now, like Mid PS3/X360 era, but pretty much everything their still holds true now.

    The electrical side, the actual wiring is just basic electrical. If you can figure out how to make a basic circuit from a battery, a LED Light, some wire and a switch you can wire up a stick.
    Every button, the 4 switches in the joystick, they are all just on/off switches that ether allow or not allow electricity to pass though.

    You are just bridging those switches from their arcade parts to the corresponding contacts of the board below. One contact is Positive and one Negative.
    If you ever hear us say common ground, that is just all switches share the same ground or negative point.
    The signal is made when you push a button thus turning the switch on, which electricity passes though and a chip on the PCB will encode or translate that ON switch as a button input.
    letting go of the button turns the switch off. All arcade buttons really are are just momentary switches. And a joystick is just four momentary switches attached to a lever, one for up, down, left and right.



    Analog buttons/triggers are like a turn style volume knob or light dimmer switch (usually the trigger tuns a pot that adjust resistance), with an analog joystick having two pots, one for the X and one for the Y Axis.
    The amount of electricity passing though the pot translate to how hard you press

    PotAlone-500.jpg
    Analog pot, often use for volume knobs on old stereos

    10-x-For-Xbox-360-3d-font-b-Analog-b-font-Stick-Sensor-Potentiometers-Repair-Parts.jpg
    Analog Joystick, see the two green things are pots, and there buttons that act as the R3/L3 buttons (black round thing).


    Mate, thanks for the detailed and structured reply covering up all the basics. I will read on this stuff more and do the basic testing once the multimeter arrives.
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?
  • StrtFghtrMstrStrtFghtrMstr SRnk1VaBeachAlphaTeam Joined: Posts: 541 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?

    It would just give you another method of testing if you had it. You just need to measure for continuity and an audible tone in the MM would be helpful as well that must an entry lvl fluke then.
    Just a veteran player enjoying competitive SFV & the CPT
    -Kaillera veteran (GodWeapon Anti3d)
    -SFA3 Replay Tournament Champion (21-0)
    -Sticks & Setups currently owned
    -Namco w/HFC/SilentKuros/SilentHayabusa-Zippys
    -Namco stock
    -VLX 360 w/JLF+Silent Zippy&uSW mod/OBS-MX Reds+Silent O-Rings/Qanba/Seimetsu/PCBs360VX+HFC4, Jansen x5 19MM Turbo Panel
    -VLX 360 Stock
    -TE-S Six-Axis PCB w/ShinJN adapter
    -H2H setups: Zowie RLH2460HT, Asus VX238H-W & Monoprice 8204
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,260
    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?

    It would just give you another method of testing if you had it. You just need to measure for continuity and an audible tone in the MM would be helpful as well that must an entry lvl fluke then.

    You can get away with some length of wire, a LED light and a battery and make a crude Continuity tester
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12






    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?

    It would just give you another method of testing if you had it. You just need to measure for continuity and an audible tone in the MM would be helpful as well that must an entry lvl fluke then.

    I'll go with a different Fluke MM that comes with AC/DC current reading.
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?

    It would just give you another method of testing if you had it. You just need to measure for continuity and an audible tone in the MM would be helpful as well that must an entry lvl fluke then.

    You can get away with some length of wire, a LED light and a battery and make a crude Continuity tester

    Would definitely save me a lot of money, but I would like to give the MM a shot.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,260

    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?

    It would just give you another method of testing if you had it. You just need to measure for continuity and an audible tone in the MM would be helpful as well that must an entry lvl fluke then.

    I'll go with a different Fluke MM that comes with AC/DC current reading.
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Well if you bought Fluke thst should be the last MM you own.

    A bit reckless on my part, the Fluke 101 that I've ordered doesn't come with AC/DC current reading. Do I need a multimeter that can measure amps too ?

    It would just give you another method of testing if you had it. You just need to measure for continuity and an audible tone in the MM would be helpful as well that must an entry lvl fluke then.

    You can get away with some length of wire, a LED light and a battery and make a crude Continuity tester

    Would definitely save me a lot of money, but I would like to give the MM a shot.

    A Multimeter is much better, the diode test which most people use for continuity test as a beep when continuity is detected
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    The Fluke 107 multimeter got delivered a couple of hours back in my home and I got on with the testing business immediately. I checked the microswitches and the small circuit board for continuity and the joystick came out pretty solid. The wiring harness from the joystick to the main PCB is fine too. I then started checking the connections from the joystick to the PCB terminals by engaging the joystick in the faulty direction and placing the red probe and black probe of the MM on the corresponding positive terminal and the common ground terminal in the PCB respectively. This test was a success too establishing continuity. I then checked for continuity from the first set of terminals(A) to the second set of terminals(B) following the signal lines and consecutively from the joystick to the second set of terminals(B) and there was nary an issue. Beyond the second set of terminals there are four miniature rectangular components(C) what appears to be resistors(?) to my uninitiated self. The signal lines from the resistors lead to four pinholes (marked D in the attached image). What do I do now ? Thanks in advance.

    qXWv2i7.jpg
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 503
    Hmmm, and youre sure youre testing the right direction? If so i dont know what to tell you. The trace should lead to the other side of the pcb, to one of the pins of the chip, but thats covered in epoxy afaik. I, and probably most others on here expected you to have a faulty connection between the wireing and the pcb. If youre absolutely sure you tested the wireing and the switch correctly then you should probably look into installing a brook pcb.
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    Dubon wrote: »
    Hmmm, and youre sure youre testing the right direction? If so i dont know what to tell you. The trace should lead to the other side of the pcb, to one of the pins of the chip, but thats covered in epoxy afaik. I, and probably most others on here expected you to have a faulty connection between the wireing and the pcb. If youre absolutely sure you tested the wireing and the switch correctly then you should probably look into installing a brook pcb.

    The connections between the joystick and the main PCB look absolutely fine from the continuity tests I performed. The signal lines beyond the resistors (?) lead to through holes (marked D) present on the top side of the PCB. Upon further inspection those plated through holes lead to something covered with epoxy present in the backside of the PCB like you've mentioned. So, I reckon the fault lies with the Hori PCB and I should look into a Brook UFB/Brook PS4+. I could ask my brother who would be returning to India in a week's time to get one from Germany or I could go the ebay Global EasyBuy route and both these options would get me the previous iteration and not the updated one.

    *Do Focus Attack or any other vendor in the USA ship the Brook fighting boards globally ? (I could get the updated board this way)
    *Do I need to buy anything else ?
    *What is the difference between the one with the headers and the other one without headers ?


    I'm grateful for all the support and guidance from you guys, thanks a ton.
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 503
    If your brother is in germany he could get one from arcadeforge.net , theyre based in germany. The headers are for making a solderless install possble. If you want one with headers your brother should probably order from smallcab.net in germany arcade forge is probably faster though.
    That said, youre 100% sure the connection is good right? It would be a shame to blow money on a new pcb if the current one isnt actually faulty.
  • swoosegooseswoosegoose Joined: Posts: 12
    Dubon wrote: »
    If your brother is in germany he could get one from arcadeforge.net , theyre based in germany. The headers are for making a solderless install possble. If you want one with headers your brother should probably order from smallcab.net in germany arcade forge is probably faster though.
    That said, youre 100% sure the connection is good right? It would be a shame to blow money on a new pcb if the current one isnt actually faulty.

    Well, I did send my brother the arcadeforge's product link earlier today just to be prepared for what I thought could be an eventuality since he is hard pressed for time. Smallcab seems to be based out of France and I don't think the PCB will make it to his place in time with customs and stuff, I might be wrong though.

    The connection looks absolutely fine to me, concurs with what a local TV mechanic had said. Looking at all the green I have to cough up and the time lost, I might as well have bought the stick in India in the first place paying the extra premium with warranty. When life gives you lemons, B) .

    I have an other question though, do I need anything at all other than the Brook PCB itself ? Thanks.
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 503
    It depends, if you want to do everything solderless then you might need some jst plugs and a crimping tool depending on how much functionality you want for the buttons on the side of the stick.
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