The Current State of the World thread

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  • pedoviejopedoviejo Thuggin in da Kitchen Joined: Posts: 13,848
    snipp

    even then, they wouldn't see that SS. Those companies would have pissed it all away in wall street
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  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge I am Hatred. I am the Night. Joined: Posts: 16,362
    Honestly I don't follow the news at all. Gotta say thanks to a couple SRK members for posting threads like these. Never good to be in dark about serious issues.
    Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

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  • ElderGODElderGOD GOD Joined: Posts: 9,800
    Honestly I don't follow the news at all. Gotta say thanks to a couple SRK members for posting threads like these. Never good to be in dark about serious issues.
    No problem. I'm going to give it a couple more days, then consolidate the information. If anyone wants to help do that then they can and I will entail that information in the first post. Lets try to avoid walls of text. Pictures/charts/diagrams are encouraged. Include source(s) of information where applicable. Remember to keep the point as simple and clear as possible so that as many people could understand as possible.

    Lets also avoid responding to trolls and replying with reaction pictures/smilies/etc.
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,426
    I'm not on some corporate hatefest, I'm not mad at them for exporting jobs, they're just going for their own self interest just like they are supposed to in a (mostly) capitalist society....

    But the government going out of their way to keep companies afloat is a problem, let them deal with failure just like everyone else has to in America when no one wants their products and services.....

    This "jobs will trickle down to middle and lower class people by throwing money at the problem" nonsense has to stop......
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  • pedoviejopedoviejo Thuggin in da Kitchen Joined: Posts: 13,848
    snip

    have you noticed that the democratic party is much more war mongering than the republican?

    The problem with this emerging party is that if it doesn't get what it wants its going to get it the hard way, because it seems like a movment pushed by and organized by the people.

    Its also important to note that they may call the rule of law, but which rule of law? If they push this rule of law, its easy for it to spiral out of control and radicalism takes over. The conservatives, will push for their own rule of law and it will be just as radical.

    I also find it sad that people praise Regan so much, when he is responsible for all of this mess, and the coming shit storm.

    To be honest, the conservative Tea Party sound more liberal than the liberal party. Progressiveness in the 1800's lead to capitalism, which led to a type of socialism. If that socialism is taken to the extreme you get radical states like Nazi Germany.
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  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    have you noticed that the democratic party is much more war mongering than the republican?

    The problem with this emerging party is that if it doesn't get what it wants its going to get it the hard way, because it seems like a movment pushed by and organized by the people.

    Its also important to note that they may call the rule of law, but which rule of law? If they push this rule of law, its easy for it to spiral out of control and radicalism takes over. The conservatives, will push for their own rule of law and it will be just as radical.

    I also find it sad that people praise Regan so much, when he is responsible for all of this mess, and the coming shit storm.

    To be honest, the conservative Tea Party sound more liberal than the liberal party. Progressiveness in the 1800's lead to capitalism, which led to a type of socialism. If that socialism is taken to the extreme you get radical states like Nazi Germany.

    idk what your snipping, you keep snipping me.

    This is the political spectrum

    /
    /
    /
    /
    /
    Left, Liberal, Moderate, Conservative, Right

    left= marxist, communist, socialist
    liberal=good lol,
    moderate= democrats (maybe a tiny bit liberal), and lazy uninformed ppl
    conservative= republicans
    right= military, nazi, facist

    I find it ironic that christians are conservatives and generally vote republican, and most republican candidates back christianity, AND YET if Jesus was a politician he would most definitely be liberal. Think about it.

    The right which is extremely military, and extremely power oriented and elite oriented is where you turn into Nazi Germany. Like the Tea Party, they're closer to Nazi's than anybody out there on Wall Street right now (unless there is Nazis down there lol.)

    By rule of law I meant the constitution, and the judicial system. That people should be governed by justice not by greed and money. That even criminals in positions of power be held accountable for their actions.

    Sorry for the bad explanations, it's late and I'm ignoring my girlfriend on the phone who lives in another city to write this. Hopefully you get what I meant earlier.
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  • The Grey AreaThe Grey Area Yep... Joined: Posts: 692

    I find it ironic that christians are conservatives and generally vote republican, and most republican candidates back christianity, AND YET if Jesus was a politician he would most definitely be liberal.

    Funny thing is that many conservative Christians are trying their hardest to change that image of Christ into one that would resemble a Tea Party member. It's rather sad actually. They have already tried to say that he was rich, this was after turning him into a European for centuries.
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  • MrTIMMrTIM Joined: Posts: 199
    Hold up? There are riots on Wall Street?

    Woops, looks like they're not arguing any form of point and nobody's died yet ; why are they being discussed again?:coffee:
    Eat a dick.
  • The Grey AreaThe Grey Area Yep... Joined: Posts: 692
    You know, there was a bit of a media blackout on this. How are they to convey much of anything?
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    You know, there was a bit of a media blackout on this. How are they to convey much of anything?

    They aren't and that's the problem. Fucking weird that they media would squash a riot just like that but, it just gives me more reasons to go to prison planet and look at all the links crazy ass Alex Jones posts. His show is daffy and views hysterical at times, but god damn it if they don't spend a lot of time linking to legit news sources with good articles; fucking weirdest shit ever. Although even they weren't covering the riots on wall street on their news section (not a conspiracy person, just like checking out what groups are about).
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  • Jasin WalravenJasin Walraven Joined: Posts: 298
    Mommy, why is the man touching me at night????????



    obvious moron is obvious.

    Can you tell that to my Uncle who worked 18+ years as a construction worker. And got fired because some morons in wall street where stroking each other, and when people found them faced covered in cum they denied it ever happened?
    No one gets fired because of "wall street". Either after 18 years your uncle did something stupid and got fired, or the company was poorly ran and the company went out of business, or after 18 years your uncle isn't useful any more. If I am wrong, then please explain "how" wall street got your uncle fired. What investor called your uncle's boss and said "hey I am done jerking Fred off, fire Pedoviejo's Uncle" You make no sense.
  • Jasin WalravenJasin Walraven Joined: Posts: 298
    Let me guess. You must be one of those guys who wants to bust up the workers unions because the fat cats brain washed you, which is essentially destroying the greatest thing to come from of your area of the US. Good luck with your 60+ hour work week, and I hope that the privatized social security raises the age limit to 75 that way you can really earn your success.

    The above is speculation based on your post.

    One more thing is that we aren't all Bill Gates or the guy who created facebook. When there are people in the US who are working for an honest living and still aren't making it, then there are problems. Your argument is invalid. Most of the rich and super rich started off relatively well to begin with, and they continue to earn they're success by oppressing others. We can't all be rich right? Gotta keep the poor man down so we can have the life we want. Just so you know, as is, there are corporations that outsource to other countries to make a few bucks more in profit. Everyone knows that without laws to protect workers rights, employment in the US would basically indentured slavery to a higher degree.

    I sure hope for your children's sake that people don't end up looking at them like the human waste that you apparently view your fellow human beings as.

    You are full of lies. Most US millionaires started out with less than nothing. The capitalist system favors the poor. It is much eaiser for a poor person to become wealthy than for a middle class or upper middle class person to become rich. What keeps people poor is silly ideas such as the 40 hr work week. You say good luck with my 60+ hr work weeks? 60 hrs is a light work week for me, I have been working 80+ for several years now. The formula is simple but requires discipline, something a 40 hr. lazy union thug couldn't do. It requires to figure out how much money you need to survive. Cut out the xtras in life (cable TV, trips to the bars, movies, ect) start a business and learn to create positive cash flow (this can take several tries, my first 4 businesses failed but #,5,6 are good) Use your businesses money to buy assets (houses to rent, equipment to rent, stocks that pay dividends each quarter) Money from assists is called passive income, money that you don't work for but your money working for you. Once your passive income is greater than what you need to survive, retire and focus full time on building up more assists like new start ups that will employ people. Why you invest with your businesses money instead of your jobs income (also known as earned income).
    Because with earned income you are investing after you pay taxes, with passive income you invest with money before you pay taxes. Since the average tax payer pays 50% in taxes, to invest $1,000 inn a fixer-upper, you would have to earn $2,000 to have $1,000 to invest. Business moey goes twice as far as paychecks.
    Remember when I said it is easier for the poor to become rich than the middle class? As a poor person I figured my family and I need $1,300 a month to survive, but a middle class person has to often have $4,000 a month to survive. It will take the poor person a lot less time to create assets that pay him $1,000 a month than the middle class person who needs to create $4,000 a month in passive income. After several years, I have two homes, one I rent, 3 cars, one I rent out, 4 DJ rigs that I rent 3 out to other DJs, and my wife's Camera equipment cost more than my car. When we started out we did DJ and Photography both for $200 after several years now it cost between $1,698-$3,298 to hire us. That's because we stopped going to the bar, worked 100 hr weeks, and held back reward for the greater good, and didn't cry or even give a shit if someone is making more money than us.
  • Rhio2kRhio2k Senior Member Joined: Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    They aren't and that's the problem. Fucking weird that they media would squash a riot just like that

    Probably trying to suppress it because it's a bunch of liberal nutjobs (so the media is protecting those towards whom it's biased), and not the super-evil, somehow racist (even though it's the folks on the left at gatherings throwing slurs and spitting on people) tea party.
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  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    You are full of lies. Most US millionaires started out with less than nothing. The capitalist system favors the poor. It is much eaiser for a poor person to become wealthy than for a middle class or upper middle class person to become rich. What keeps people poor is silly ideas such as the 40 hr work week. You say good luck with my 60+ hr work weeks? 60 hrs is a light work week for me, I have been working 80+ for several years now. The formula is simple but requires discipline, something a 40 hr. lazy union thug couldn't do. It requires to figure out how much money you need to survive. Cut out the xtras in life (cable TV, trips to the bars, movies, ect) start a business and learn to create positive cash flow (this can take several tries, my first 4 businesses failed but #,5,6 are good) Use your businesses money to buy assets (houses to rent, equipment to rent, stocks that pay dividends each quarter) Money from assists is called passive income, money that you don't work for but your money working for you. Once your passive income is greater than what you need to survive, retire and focus full time on building up more assists like new start ups that will employ people. Why you invest with your businesses money instead of your jobs income (also known as earned income).
    Because with earned income you are investing after you pay taxes, with passive income you invest with money before you pay taxes. Since the average tax payer pays 50% in taxes, to invest $1,000 inn a fixer-upper, you would have to earn $2,000 to have $1,000 to invest. Business moey goes twice as far as paychecks.
    Remember when I said it is easier for the poor to become rich than the middle class? As a poor person I figured my family and I need $1,300 a month to survive, but a middle class person has to often have $4,000 a month to survive. It will take the poor person a lot less time to create assets that pay him $1,000 a month than the middle class person who needs to create $4,000 a month in passive income. After several years, I have two homes, one I rent, 3 cars, one I rent out, 4 DJ rigs that I rent 3 out to other DJs, and my wife's Camera equipment cost more than my car. When we started out we did DJ and Photography both for $200 after several years now it cost between $1,698-$3,298 to hire us. That's because we stopped going to the bar, worked 100 hr weeks, and held back reward for the greater good, and didn't cry or even give a shit if someone is making more money than us.

    So basically we should all become DJ's amirite?

    Not everyone is like you sir. Not everyone wants to be some bullshit entrepreneur elitist nut hugger, and work 100 hour work weeks and ignore their children.

    Honestly you have some good ideas, I admire that you're a hustler (that's a compliment). But there are students coming out of college with their degrees that aren't going to get jobs because of the state of the economy, which will cause their already high student debt to increase. There's honest hard working citizens who get laid off and can't afford their medications. People's homes getting taken away by credit companies, and the banks and big business gambling people's future away. Soldiers dying in the middle east, because the US thinks it's job is to police the world. Notice how only brainwashed self proclaimed patriots "support the troops" while all of the vets who know the horrors of war want an end.

    work.4162866.2.sticker,375x360.i-support-everyones-troops-v1.png

    But hey, as long as things work for YOU then everythings ok right? Stop being so dam SELFISH. This is everybody's world not just yours.

    I'm not pleased with the state of the US, and the state of the world. And if people want to fight to change things for the better then let them. I see people worshiping greed, taking more than they need. I see US' terrible history of relations with other countries. I see poor education systems. I see ball players making millions, and teachers barely making enough to get by. I see corporate corruption and greed, siphoning money away from the people and the economy into their pockets. I see ignorant people who only care about their immediate self, and not enough to care that their lives are being controlled.
    Probably trying to suppress it because it's a bunch of liberal nutjobs (so the media is protecting those towards whom it's biased), and not the super-evil, somehow racist (even though it's the folks on the left at gatherings throwing slurs and spitting on people) tea party.

    Wtf, how can you even say anything good about the tea party? Supporting christianity. You know Jesus was a liberal right? He would be pro healthcare, anti capitalism and greed, and he wouldn't take fellow human beings from their homes and send them back across the border. He'd be down there on wall street holding hands with the hippies.

    Talking about how we should go back to the original ways that the constitution was interpreted? What you want to take things back before women, and people of color could vote or had civil rights? You want to take things back to slavery? You're going the wrong direction, we're supposed to move forward.
    · "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    · "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  • Cletus KasadyCletus Kasady The Alarm Clock Joined: Posts: 284
    I see poor education systems. I see ball players making millions, and teachers barely making enough to get by.

    Supply and demand. If only about a thousand people in the world could competently teach elementary school, and ESPN wanted to pay public schools millions to broadcast Geography class, there would be plenty of money in school. The only real way to undo this would be to try to get people to stop following sports; all the best in that endeavour.
    Wtf, how can you even say anything good about the tea party? Supporting christianity. You know Jesus was a liberal right? He would be pro healthcare, anti capitalism and greed, and he wouldn't take fellow human beings from their homes and send them back across the border. He'd be down there on wall street holding hands with the hippies.

    Either your reading comprehension is lacking, or your desire to start a Tea Party/Christianity discussion is very strong.
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  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    Supply and demand. If only about a thousand people in the world could competently teach elementary school, and ESPN wanted to pay public schools millions to broadcast Geography class, there would be plenty of money in school. The only real way to undo this would be to try to get people to stop following sports; all the best in that endeavour.

    It's called media overexposure, and poor values. If big stations would make education a focus, or the government or president would make education a focus. Messages everywhere, media, propaganda. It could change.

    I'm not against sports. I love sports too. But you have to admit the world could survive without athletes, but it needs teachers. Education is important, one of the most important things.
    · "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  • Cletus KasadyCletus Kasady The Alarm Clock Joined: Posts: 284
    It's called media overexposure, and poor values. If big stations would make education a focus, or the government or president would make education a focus. Messages everywhere, media, propaganda. It could change.

    People would just not watch those channels. There's a reason that a big portion of TLC's programming now involves fashion/cupcake/hoarder shows. Plus, if under your view the government doesn't do enough to make education a focus, I imagine changing that involves more spending from a government whose spending is already out of control (particularly if this involves the subsidization of networks who don't want to lose any viewers).
    herd dat urien is going 2 b in ssf4ae. put this in ur sig if ur down.
  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    People would just not watch those channels. There's a reason that a big portion of TLC's programming now involves fashion/cupcake/hoarder shows. Plus, if under your view the government doesn't do enough to make education a focus, I imagine changing that involves more spending from a government whose spending is already out of control (particularly if this involves the subsidization of networks who don't want to lose any viewers).

    I know your right, but in a perfect world it should be like that. Education should be made a priority. If not through the media, at least give more money for public education. I'm from Texas and we have poor public education, and very high drop out rates and rates of teen pregnancy. It's sad.
    · "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    This is good.

    Change is good.

    Our government and it's policies are dated, it must change to accommodate for today. The people holding positions of power are mostly relics of a past era and is leading to stagnation in my opinion. Our government is suppose to be living and changing, evolving and adapting but there are too many within it trying to prevent it. Its inefficiency is becoming way too much a problem.

    Something needs to come of this. Something will, just a matter of when.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
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  • SoVi3tSoVi3t Behind The Iron Curtain Joined: Posts: 29,170
    I know your right, but in a perfect world it should be like that. Education should be made a priority. If not through the media, at least give more money for public education. I'm from Texas and we have poor public education, and very high drop out rates and rates of teen pregnancy. It's sad.

    I just look at the dark ages. At one point in human history, only the landowners and royalty learned anything, and it was 3 subjects called the trivium (reading, logic, and rhetoric). Then eventually we kinda taught ourselves shit over the years, but over we were dumb. Then we suddenly start teaching education to children, and WHAM, we invent more things than in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY. So now we seem to be at an impasse, and we're stagnating as a society (globally, I might add). Why can't we educate everybody even more, and start TRULY tackling the issues that are standing between humanity and perfection?

    As for the wall street coverage growing, good for it. It's getting blacklisted from Twitter supposedly (not now though, but it was when it started), and most news were ignoring it for the most. But just like the shit in Libya and Egypt barely got coverage until that shit exploded.

    Give this some time, and see where it goes
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  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    ^Agree except for the perfection part. It's never attainable, but that doesn't mean that people can't strive for it. I'm sure that's what you meant.
    No problem. I'm going to give it a couple more days, then consolidate the information. If anyone wants to help do that then they can and I will entail that information in the first post. Lets try to avoid walls of text. Pictures/charts/diagrams are encouraged. Include source(s) of information where applicable. Remember to keep the point as simple and clear as possible so that as many people could understand as possible.

    I would also like to see a list of learning material and media. Like documentaries, articles, books, etc. Along with links to the main websites and good news reports.

    like this article. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

    Or "Capitalism: A Love Story", and "Inside Job" documentaries.
    · "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    What are they occupying Wall Street for and what are demands?

    All I could find is pretty much protesting money instead of people controlling our government. Otherwise, it seems like a lot of people pissed off about the current state of things and want "something" done about it, that something being undefined.

    Also, the protestors need to do their thing right and by the book, otherwise they'll hurt their own cause.
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  • pedoviejopedoviejo Thuggin in da Kitchen Joined: Posts: 13,848
    idiocy and ignorance at its finest.

    You know I was going to post this long essay explaining why you are wrong, but Ill leave it at this.

    Those millionaires you are talking about, they got rich at the expense of America in the 80's when shit for brains Regan deregulated everything and led us to this shit hole we are in. You are misinformed and drinking to much Fox kool-aid. Please stop it, and stop trolling.

    Capitalism doesn't favor the poor. it favors those who have money, and further solidifies thier power. The capitalism model of you are referring to is from the 1800's where poor people stumbled across industries like steel and made fortunes of it. This is no longer possible. Those with capital, will make gross excessive capital from thier capital. And the poor who stumble on new technology or industry make a fraction of what they should make because the established elite already control him because they are the investors. So while 1 poor person gets semi rich, the rich get even more rich of the success of somebody who has worked for his money.

    You really need to read a book, and then apply critical thinking, you lack it.
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  • The Grey AreaThe Grey Area Yep... Joined: Posts: 692
    You are full of lies. Most US millionaires started out with less than nothing.

    Out of curiosity, do you have any stats or sources to back that up? It kind of goes against everything that I have ever read on the subject of American wealth distribution.
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  • Kusanagi02Kusanagi02 Joined: Posts: 5,460
    Maybe i heard it wrong but i'm hearing that apparently jobs won't hire you if you've been unemployed previously or something along those lines? It was something i caught on the Chris Matthews show a couple of days ago.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    Maybe i heard it wrong but i'm hearing that apparently jobs won't hire you if you've been unemployed previously or something along those lines? It was something i caught on the Chris Matthews show a couple of days ago.
    Yeah, if you google search that, some companies explicitly state they will only consider hiring people currently working.
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  • pedoviejopedoviejo Thuggin in da Kitchen Joined: Posts: 13,848
    Maybe i heard it wrong but i'm hearing that apparently jobs won't hire you if you've been unemployed previously or something along those lines? It was something i caught on the Chris Matthews show a couple of days ago.

    and people still want to unregulated companies even further so they can do stuff like this even more. I weep for my future.

    Luckily I can put my chemistry to clandestine use if worse comes to worse.
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  • hubcapsignstophubcapsignstop my structure is so dirty Joined: Posts: 1,443
    what system would you replace capitalism with to ensure social mobility?
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  • pedoviejopedoviejo Thuggin in da Kitchen Joined: Posts: 13,848
    Nothing, just well regulated capitalism, with dabs of socialism done correctly. Capitilism works when you have authority keeping douche bags in check
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  • WeeksWeeks Push Custom™ Joined: Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the problem is getting everyone to agree on who is a douchebag and who isn't
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  • pedoviejopedoviejo Thuggin in da Kitchen Joined: Posts: 13,848
    the problem is getting everyone to agree on who is a douchebag and who isn't

    its quite easy, all there needs to be is massive education and exposure to fraud. these people aren't careful with how they do thing because they know they have bought out the government. The amount of fraud and corruption in the American government makes the corruption in Mexico during the early and late 90's look like child's play.

    The real problem is exposing people to the truth. Because the douchbags in power control the media outlets, and the government.

    A good example of this is would be the wiki leaks situation. That was necessary and the right thing to do. but look how the government flipped it around and manipulated people into thinking it was the wrong thing.
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  • MCPMCP Joined: Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Education is always the start. When we finally properly tax the rich and corporations just like everyone else, then we can afford the education everyone needs. For now we're in crunch time, but general progress is only capable with general education.

    Not everyone will be able or want to be educated to the fullest extent, but our nation's general education grown by leaps and bounds since 5 decades ago. It's been a nice trend for the past several hundred years.
  • WeeksWeeks Push Custom™ Joined: Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    but then you run into the problem of the more educated people there are, the less each one's individual education is worth
    Americans can be relied upon to do the right thing, but only after exhausting all other options.
    -Churchill
  • MCPMCP Joined: Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yes, but now we're teaching Calculus in high school. It's quite regular for the top of the class in math will take Calculus, Physics, and other advanced classes at the average high school in California. (at least in the densely populated areas)

    What's next to trickle down from University to high school? What about one laptop per child, how many of them are going to be some kind of engineer or scientist or business owner fully capable of using a computer to their advantage?

    We have to take a step back occasionally, such as now, in order to push things forwards two steps.

    One specific example:
    When people can be taught the exponential function and growth rates in high school, they will have a much better understanding of what is being told (or not told) to them in the news. They will be able to imagine Long Term consequences for percentage growths per year. I wish all politicians understood this relatively simple math.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • No_CigarNo_Cigar close but....... Joined: Posts: 2,173
    This article sounds really good from what I've read: http://tarpley.net/2011/09/29/emergency-program-for-anti-wall-street-protestors/#more-3408.

    I DON'T LIKE THE OCCUPY WALL ST. DISSES. But he does say some important things.

    "In order to fight Wall Street, it is necessary for the American people to understand the basic idea of shifting the cost of the world economic depression off of the backs of working people and the poor where it is now, and onto Wall Street banks and super-rich speculators. Depressions are very expensive. Who should pay for the current depression? The bankers demand that the American people must pay. We want the bankers to pay, and we must specify how. A movement that wants to defend working people against the class warfare of the bankers has the responsibility of putting forward a program to defend middle-class and other working people. In order to win, the anti-Wall Street protests must agitate for a series of demands including the following:"
    1. Student Loan Amnesty. The common experience of many of the protesters is that of being crushed by an outrageous burden of high interest student loans. Today it is common for graduating seniors to carry $50,000, $75,000, or even $100,000 of debt. Add the costs of an advanced degree in teaching, law, or medicine, and the debt burden becomes astronomical. The exorbitant cost of a college education reflects the increasing immiseration of the United States over the past 40 years, as the overall standard of living has declined by two thirds or more in terms of real wages and other considerations. These debts are owed to the same zombie bankers who cashed in on the Bush bailout of 2008, and the even larger loans issued by Ben Bernanke of the Federal Reserve over recent years. This is a system of brutal primitive accumulation against the life chances everyone who knows that they need a college degree to be employable in the 21st century. Total students loan indebtedness is now approaching $1 trillion. This grinding debt is destroying the futures, the lives, and the hopes of college students and recent graduates.
    When a debtor country like Greece is unable to pay its debts, it is normal to hear talk of a haircut for the bondholders and bankers. It is time for the Wall Street zombie banks to take a haircut on student loan debt. Most of this debt cannot be paid off, but an entire generation can be ruined by a futile attempt to pay it back.
    A leading demand must therefore be a total cancellation of all outstanding student loan debt, meaning a total and immediate forgiveness of all payments of principal and interest coming from this category of borrowing. Carter granted Vietnam draft resisters an amnesty. If Obama wants to keep his job, he must deliver a student loan amnesty to save not just a single generation, but the entire future of the United States and beyond. Otherwise, dump Obama in 2012! The zombie bankers have been pampered enough. It is time for them to take a bath, so that a generation might live. This is also the best stimulus program possible.
    2. Stop Foreclosures. Since students alone will never be enough to make a revolution, it is necessary to put forward additional measures to defend other parts of the population from the depredations of Wall Street. In the area of home foreclosures, the bankers have trampled on the law to seize millions of homes, some of which never had a mortgage, and many of which were current in their payments. The banks have used corrupt robo-signers, robo-cops, and robo-judges to carry out these fraudclosure thefts. The answer is to make foreclosure a federal crime, so that anyone who throws an American family out on the street will end up in Leavenworth. Again, the zombie bankers can eat the losses, which are unavoidable in any case. This is not an impossible demand: under the New Deal, the Frazier-Lemke Act stopped all foreclosures on homes, provided only that the owners could get a minimal payment plan approved by any judge in any court. With the help of popular pressure and public opinion, foreclosures virtually came to a halt. This is what we need to be demanding today.
    3. Defend and fully fund the social safety net. Wall Street and Washington elites agree that the American people ought to be subjected to genocidal austerity – cuts so draconian that they will kill people. The goal is obviously to fund bigger and better bailouts of Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase when they go bankrupt the next time around. Real unemployment in the United States is now about 25%, meaning that 30 million people cannot find work, and many have been looking for years. Therefore, we need to extend jobless benefits to all unemployed, including those who have been out of a job for 99 weeks and more. 46 million Americans are now surviving thanks to Food Stamps, but the reactionary Republicans are demanding savage cuts, and Obama is more than likely to cave. We also need to defend programs that specifically help children and young. These include S-CHIP, which gives health care to poor children; Head Start, which provides breakfast and preschool for poor kids; and WIC, which provides high-protein meals for pregnant women, nursing mothers, and infants. Older people have special problems, including that Wall Street speculators have destroyed the value of their 401(k) and IRA retirement plans. This means that Social Security pensions should be increased, and not cut, as the Republicans and Obama both want. Obama has already cut $500 billion out of Medicare, but he wants to cut it even more, and the Tea Party is eager to help him. The best healthcare would be to open Medicare to all Americans, while making the investments needed to maintain quality. Medicaid gives healthcare to poor people of any age, and these payments must be maintained.
    4. Pay for healthcare and social services with a 1% Wall Street Sales Tax. When they hear demands like these, Fox news commentators will demand to know how these programs can be paid for. The answer is simple: the Tobin tax or Wall Street sales tax. Today the total financial turnover of the banksters in terms of buying, selling, and other trading comes to well over three quadrillion dollars yearly – that’s more than 3,000 trillion dollars. The rest of us pay sales tax on most purchases, often including the groceries, but Wall Street zombie bankers and hedge fund hyenas pay absolutely zero on that colossal sum. The most unfair aspect of the entire US tax system is that Wall Street pays virtually no taxes. It is time for the bankers to cough up 1% of every stock, bond, and derivatives transaction, be it program trading, high frequency trading, or computerized flash trading at the rate of one million transactions per second. The total revenue could be split between the federal government and the states, and would amount to hundreds of billions of dollars, perhaps even trillions – depending on how determined the speculators are to keep up their dirty deals. There is nothing impossible about this demand: the federal government had a financial transaction tax from the time of World War I in 1967. And even today, the largely right wing governments of the European Union are about to enact their own Tobin tax. Why can’t it be done here as well?
    These are immediate agitational demands that can be readily understood by any person. They can form the leading edge of a struggle to break the political power of Wall Street. In addition, a full recovery from depression and the attainment of full employment for the first time since 1945 will require the nationalization of the Federal Reserve, and the issuing of successive tranches of $1 trillion of 0%, very long-term Federal credit for the building of infrastructure, with a goal of creating 30 million new productive jobs with adequate capital investment per job.
    Another essential point is that Wall Street is the biggest nest of warmongers anywhere in the world. Anyone seeking to gain influence over the anti-Wall Street movement should be willing to condemn and denounce Obama’s wanton aggression against Libya, as well as to call for an immediate pullout of US troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who refuses to do this should be regarded with grave suspicion.
    The alternative to such concrete demands is, whether we like it or not, to remain in the orbit of Obama’s Democratic Party. Earlier this year, students, workers, and others occupied the state capitol in Madison, Wisconsin in response to attacks on working people coming from the fascist governor, Walker. The resistance against Walker was betrayed first of all by the Democratic Party, which announced that it would not fight for wages and benefits, but only for trade union rights in the abstract. That is a good program for trade union bureaucrats, but not so good for working people, who bore the brunt of Walker’s austerity. A president who was on the side of the people would have gone immediately to Madison, Wisconsin to hold a town hall on the occupied grounds of the state capitol, an event that would have looked much different than the canned, pre-screened teleprompter town halls Obama likes to address. A real president would have taken Attorney General Holder and Labor Secretary Solis along to investigate the denial of civil rights and labor violations by Walker. Obama did none of these things. Rather, he damned the movement with a few words of faint praise, and cut it loose. The lesson is that the Democratic Party is more than willing to sell out mass struggles anytime it can. And it is only by having your own program of anti-Wall Street demands that you can become independent of the rotten two-party system.

    IMO this sounds reasonable. They are not regulated enough, and control the economy, along with politics and the media. They cause the "bubble" to pop and when it does they are ready to profit from that too, while the average joe's financial situation turn to shit.

    Don't believe me? Check out this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ddIJajQ0w

    He's a trader from Europe but banks are the same all over the world. They are only trying to use other people's money to make profits for themselves, even at the cost of the economy.
    · "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  • MCPMCP Joined: Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    From the spoiler above:
    It does not sound reasonable to give amnesty for all student loans and to make it illegal to foreclose on a home.

    It does not sound feasible to pass every foreclosure case through the courts, no matter how much scrutiny foreclosures require.

    Cancelling all student debt makes no sense. First, those of us who have no debt, should we get paid back? That would be equivalent to printing more money if I was able to retroactively take out a student loan and then have it cancelled. Secondly, all students are guaranteed a loan. That is the real problem.

    When people look at welfare they tend to focus on one of two sides. They either focus on those taking advantage of it or those who really need it. When a friend gets laid off it's nice to think some of my tax dollars go to help him or her and their family. But then one could also think of the lazy slobs living off of welfare, leeching my tax dollars. We all agree, kill the leechers, help those really in need.

    What we have are compromises which are not perfect and need fixing. How do we fix them? Well, nothing like a tight economy to help motivate people to scrutinize every dollar spent. I think we need more scrutiny by everyone involved.

    Number 4, the 1% 'wall street' tax, or well I'm not sure which companies/people this effects, but whatever the answer is, something needs to be done to make sure corporations and rich people get taxed appropriately, that is just as much as everyone else. I like number 4 the most, I agree something needs to be done, and I don't have a better solution myself.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    People are worried about the government controlling the media, but we're getting to the point the where the people who control the media and other big businesses are controlling our government.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • Rhio2kRhio2k Senior Member Joined: Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    Wtf, how can you even say anything good about the tea party? Supporting christianity. You know Jesus was a liberal right? He would be pro healthcare, anti capitalism and greed, and he wouldn't take fellow human beings from their homes and send them back across the border. He'd be down there on wall street holding hands with the hippies.

    Talking about how we should go back to the original ways that the constitution was interpreted? What you want to take things back before women, and people of color could vote or had civil rights? You want to take things back to slavery? You're going the wrong direction, we're supposed to move forward.

    Yu-wha-huh?! What are you on, son? ...and you still haven't addressed anything I said. You just went off on some shit of your own. And relying on the government for everything at the expense of a stable family unit IS slavery. The parties never "switched", as far as I know...the dems just got slick with that shit in a way that benefited them more than keeping us in literal chains. They just do things that outwardly seem to help us, but have serious detrimental side effects. Isn't it strange that after all these decades, 99% percent of us still aren't doing that much better? Google this phrase: "I'll have those ni**ers voting democratic for the next 200 years!"
    Roger: Well, Anita's pregnant, and-
    Cruella: Well, what can I say? Accidents will happen.
    Roger: We're having puppies, too.
    Cruella: *Gasp* Puppies!? *Leer* My, you have been a busy boy!