10/01/2017 Las Vegas Strip Shooting

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  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • angelpalmangelpalm Stop enjoying things Joined: Posts: 24,117 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Pretty sure you were thinking about banning all guns and exiling people you don't like even if you didn't say it @white shadow , why no I am not projecting and low key showing you how I would actually react if the situation was reversed in some manner.
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  • JayRuppJayRupp Rival Joined: Posts: 45
    edited October 5
    Lol @ the 16-18 year olds voicing political opinions that they don't understand the consequences of.
    Post edited by JayRupp on
    XBL GT: Jay Rupp
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 5
    angelpalm wrote: »
    Pretty sure you were thinking about banning all guns and exiling people you don't like even if you didn't say it @white shadow , why no I am not projecting and low key showing you how I would actually react if the situation was reversed in some manner.

    lol Banning all guns in America is unrealistic, and exiling people is equally absurd. If anything, I'm creating a thought experiment about an American society that could never see happening. What would be more likely is genetic engineering being use to eradicate those genes responsible for creating these neurological tendencies in the very distant future, not enacting laws within legislative bodies that are controlled by the very same politicians with antisocial tendencies.

    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • angelpalmangelpalm Stop enjoying things Joined: Posts: 24,117 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    No bro even though you just CLEARLY stated that these ideas are both unrealistic and absurd I still beleive that is what you are trying to push upon me and I morally and righteously object with every grain of strength invested into my soul through the power of white jesus christ himself.
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,308
    Why is it always the same people spouting absolute nonsense claiming they're rational? Like can't you guys hear yourselves? Isn't there an emphatic bone anywhere that thinks you know... Since the current way has been working so great (sarcasm obviously) maybe it's worth at least trialing change.
  • InfernomanInfernoman Bro as Hell Joined: Posts: 9,431
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Why is it always the same people spouting absolute nonsense claiming they're rational? Like can't you guys hear yourselves? Isn't there an emphatic bone anywhere that thinks you know... Since the current way has been working so great (sarcasm obviously) maybe it's worth at least trialing change.

    No because there's always someone on here who thinks they know everything and will remind you how stupid you are. They'll flip on a dime being a troll and then be serious to make you seem like a fool.

    With that said, It's obvious that _____ is wrong and _____ is right!

    Who else in a movie wrestled an evil lesbian and by forcefully kissing her, turned her not only heterosexual but good as well? Exactly. That, my friend, is the power of Sean motherfucking Connery - Valaris
  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 6,033
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Why is it always the same people spouting absolute nonsense claiming they're rational? Like can't you guys hear yourselves? Isn't there an emphatic bone anywhere that thinks you know... Since the current way has been working so great (sarcasm obviously) maybe it's worth at least trialing change.

    The very notion of basing policy/change off of empathy means that any new policy is based off of emotion, not logic.

    I used to be hardcore anti-gun, as most Australians are. But facts don't care about feelings.

    When I discovered a while back that the EU (another union of member states, with a comparable population), has worse experiences with mass shootings than the US (refer to stats from crimeresearch.org previously), I realised gun control is generally futile, and that any form of change needs to focus on "why" these events occur.

    Do I really need to quote Einstein about repeating things and expecting different results?
    SFV: Ken, with THAT ORANGE COSTUME

    I have nobody to play with, so I typically talk out of my ass.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,308
    Infernoman wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Why is it always the same people spouting absolute nonsense claiming they're rational? Like can't you guys hear yourselves? Isn't there an emphatic bone anywhere that thinks you know... Since the current way has been working so great (sarcasm obviously) maybe it's worth at least trialing change.

    No because there's always someone on here who thinks they know everything and will remind you how stupid you are. They'll flip on a dime being a troll and then be serious to make you seem like a fool.

    With that said, It's obvious that _____ is wrong and _____ is right!

    I don't troll man, I just occasionally lay bait when I'm tired, frustrated and drunk.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,308
    Wasted wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Why is it always the same people spouting absolute nonsense claiming they're rational? Like can't you guys hear yourselves? Isn't there an emphatic bone anywhere that thinks you know... Since the current way has been working so great (sarcasm obviously) maybe it's worth at least trialing change.

    The very notion of basing policy/change off of empathy means that any new policy is based off of emotion, not logic.

    I used to be hardcore anti-gun, as most Australians are. But facts don't care about feelings.

    When I discovered a while back that the EU (another union of member states, with a comparable population), has worse experiences with mass shootings than the US (refer to stats from crimeresearch.org previously), I realised gun control is generally futile, and that any form of change needs to focus on "why" these events occur.

    Do I really need to quote Einstein about repeating things and expecting different results?

    Of course the causes are what's most important. You can say the same thing about why people do drugs and most crime. Why do people steal? Generally it's not for the hell of it. We still lock our doors to make it harder on them despite the fact that determined criminals can break in. I view gun control in the same way, why make things easier?
  • IAmYagamiIAmYagami Garuda Joined: Posts: 271
    edited October 5
    Been of the opinion for years and years that bullets should be extremely expensive, and make it a crime with a life sentence to the one caught making them illegally or selling them for cheap.
    One may think; "what about the hunters and pest control?" - Fuck hunters. Pest control is a government's responsibility.
    How much should a bullet cost? Depends on caliber and how common it is. Not lower than $100/bullet/projectile in my opinion, and preferably higher.
    It should hurt bigly, tremendously and greatly to get bullets. Just unbelievable. Believe me. Big water, ocean water.

    Something I find unbelievable and quite frankly outrageous and disgusting, is the following:
    Currently, a box with 1,000 9mm bullets used for a variety of guns, go for approximately $170-$230 depending on brand.
    Currently, a box with 1,000 5.56 (for Assault Rifle) projectiles go for approximately $300-$400 depending on brand.

    Way too cheap.

    One 9mm bullet costs around 20c to $2 depending on brand. - Insanity. Increase by $100.
    One 5.56 projectile costs around 32c to $1.50. - Again, fucking lunatics.

    No wonder you have constant mass-shootings.
    274 this year. It was 273 with Vegas, but there's been 1 more since then. October 3, 2017 - Florida, Miami.

    2014 - Mass shootings - 273
    2015 - Mass shootings - 318
    2016 - Mass shootings - 383
    2017 - Mass shootings - 274 and counting.

    Also, fuck high-capacity magazines.

    "But knives..." - Fuck you for even trying. - Would a 64 year old man with a knife be able to kill 59 people, let alone injure 200+ people...? No? No.
    "But cars..." - Cars aren't intended to be used to kill people. Guns firing bullets are for? ...Yes. Killing.
    "But guns don't kill people!!" - Guns do indeed not kill people, although there are times where people may have gotten killed by being bludgeoned with a gun. However, in general, the BULLETS fired from the gun... kills people, you saggy, wrinkly, non-beautiful tit.
    Post edited by IAmYagami on
    Huge fan of psychological warfare.

    Atheist, Humanist, Extreme Pacifist. (Pacifism is opposition to war, militarism, or violence.)
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,296
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.

    And I think it's straight up foul and inhuman to penalize people who haven't committed any crime because some test has flagged them up as someone who might do in the future.

    That shit just straight up isn't justifiable, we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty for a reason.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,308
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.

    That shit just straight up isn't justifiable, we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

    Unless you're Black.
  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 6,033
    edited October 5
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Wasted wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Why is it always the same people spouting absolute nonsense claiming they're rational? Like can't you guys hear yourselves? Isn't there an emphatic bone anywhere that thinks you know... Since the current way has been working so great (sarcasm obviously) maybe it's worth at least trialing change.

    The very notion of basing policy/change off of empathy means that any new policy is based off of emotion, not logic.

    I used to be hardcore anti-gun, as most Australians are. But facts don't care about feelings.

    When I discovered a while back that the EU (another union of member states, with a comparable population), has worse experiences with mass shootings than the US (refer to stats from crimeresearch.org previously), I realised gun control is generally futile, and that any form of change needs to focus on "why" these events occur.

    Do I really need to quote Einstein about repeating things and expecting different results?

    Of course the causes are what's most important. You can say the same thing about why people do drugs and most crime. Why do people steal? Generally it's not for the hell of it.

    That's not quite true. This may be dated by now, but it's the best I could find:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228094906_Motivations_for_Violent_Crime_among_Incarcerated_Adults_A_Consideration_of_Reinforcement_Processes

    Table 1, page 69. 53% of responses from burglars (i.e. stealing from properties) and 59% of robbers (i.e. stealing from people/mugging) cited ease of opportunity.

    Similar distributions were found among responses that included stealing of drugs, alcohol, money, or simply doing it for the thrill.
    We still lock our doors to make it harder on them despite the fact that determined criminals can break in. I view gun control in the same way, why make things easier?

    I'm fine with baseline requirements like security measures, mandatory registration, federal and comprehensive background checks, no full autos, etc. Measures that are comparable to what you described. At some point however, these measures become excessive and futile.

    http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4963361/secured-firearms-and-ammunition-stolen-from-safe-during-break-in/?cs=11

    You're acting like I would tell this dude not to buy a gun safe. Legal requirements aside, why would you not? At some point though, additional restrictions become pointless.

    No matter what restrictions are brought in, they are never enough. The silly thing is - the death counts are getting HIGHER in spite of it.

    There are clear loopholes that need to be fixed, and at least working to unify the laws and government processes around access would be a start. Eventually though, you quickly hit a point where you're not really making things harder at all, you're only creating the illusion that you are.
    SFV: Ken, with THAT ORANGE COSTUME

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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,308
    I'm pretty sure an additional restriction on having a semi-auto rifle with a high capacity magazine wouldn't be pointless or redundant.

    You cited ease of opportunity. Do you know what makes mass murder an easy opportunity? Assault rifles.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,380
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure an additional restriction on having a semi-auto rifle with a high capacity magazine wouldn't be pointless or redundant.

    You cited ease of opportunity. Do you know what makes mass murder an easy opportunity? Assault rifles.

    Except Restrictions are pointless as we don't enforce the laws we have on the books now, plus there so many loopholes.

    Also the shooter is rich, you think making his ammo more expensive would make it he has less? He will just spend more.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • purbeastpurbeast Joined: Posts: 4,771
    StockyJam wrote: »
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-wired-dollar100000-to-philippines-last-week/ar-AAsRCGj?OCID=ansmsnnews11
    Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock wired $100,000 to an account in his live-in girlfriend’s home country of the Philippines in the week before he unleashed the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history, according to multiple senior law enforcement officials

    ...

    Meanwhile, senior law enforcement officials told NBC News that Paddock gambled with at least $160,000 in the past several weeks at Las Vegas casinos.


    he lost 160,000 gambling and gave 100k to this philipino chick.

    not for nothing but i have a feeling either one or both things caused him to stress out.
    or...maybe it had nothing to do with it since he has been at that hotel room since early september, tho who knows if he had those weapons costing over 65k there or got them into the room more recently. he also had 7 star top status at the hotel. invitation only suite.

    saddest thing of all. is im still poor. :cry:

    Just FYI, gambling with $160k doesn't mean he lost $160k. Another article I read said they were unsure if he won or lost anything from that money.
  • FreezingCicadaFreezingCicada Joined: Posts: 626
    edited October 5
    angelpalm wrote: »
    Reticently wrote: »

    So. Wouldnt it make more sense to get a gun then to ban it then?

    No mention of banning guns. Still argues againt banning guns....fucking die already please.

    Just going off the thread seeing how people are quite knee jerky in responding. But even then the point is still valid.
    If you hate the Government (Trump), Police and white people; why wouldnt you want a gun to protect yourself or at the very least. Would you trust Trump to enforce gun control laws?
  • angelpalmangelpalm Stop enjoying things Joined: Posts: 24,117 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Has knee jerk reaction to something that never even occured. Blames others for knee jerking. Please stop posting.
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  • IAmYagamiIAmYagami Garuda Joined: Posts: 271
    edited October 5
    Pt1

    pt2
    Huge fan of psychological warfare.

    Atheist, Humanist, Extreme Pacifist. (Pacifism is opposition to war, militarism, or violence.)
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 5
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.

    And I think it's straight up foul and inhuman to penalize people who haven't committed any crime because some test has flagged them up as someone who might do in the future.

    That shit just straight up isn't justifiable, we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

    So I shouldn't assume that a cat locked in an aviary will inevitably kill all the birds there since it has been fed cat food all its life?

    This isn't saying most people who are psychopaths are wantonly committing grave crimes, but they are innately compelled to do selfish and unethical things to get what they want. They can't help themselves, like how a cat can't help itself from going after prey.

    Unlike the historically misguided and inhumane treatment of people using the classics i.e., race, religion, and gender, this is a measurable neurological condition that reaches into all these facets of society, and those who have this condition are described by psychologists as "intraspecies predators".

    So please answer this truthfully, if you had a kid, would you have no problem if one of the caretakers was psychopath?

    Prentky and Knight (1991) assessed the prevalence of psychopathy among sex offenders in a treatment center. The PCL was completed on 154 participants. These authors found that 45.3% of 95 rapists and 30.5% of 59 child molesters met the PCL criteria for psychopathy.

    Considering psychopaths only represent ~2% of the population that's a significant amount of them within a population of sex offenders; and interestingly enough, pedophiles are segmented from society and aren't able to do certain jobs for safety reasons.


    main-qimg-d42a927714d8cf7070d455c70cd947dc


    Do you think having screening assessments for those who take care of young children or carry a badge and a gun is any different for the background checks needed for many jobs? It honestly makes me ponder, at what point does advocating indiscriminate and unfettered freedom become the same as supporting negligence?



    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • rbuniaorbuniao Joined: Posts: 182
    Apparently Stephen Paddock booked a hotel with views of the Lollapalooza festival.

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/10/05/stephen-paddock-booked-hotel-lollapalooza-music-festival-chicago-vegas/

    I suspect that he really hates music or young, modern culture associated with them since he books hotels near these gatherings with murderous intentions.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,308
    Darksakul wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure an additional restriction on having a semi-auto rifle with a high capacity magazine wouldn't be pointless or redundant.

    You cited ease of opportunity. Do you know what makes mass murder an easy opportunity? Assault rifles.

    Except Restrictions are pointless as we don't enforce the laws we have on the books now, plus there so many loopholes.

    Also the shooter is rich, you think making his ammo more expensive would make it he has less? He will just spend more.

    It's worth trying. You can always ramp up enforcement, it's not like crackdowns have never happened before.

    If certain guns were made illegal they wouldn't all suddenly disappear and become impossible to obtain but they would instantly become a lot more expensive and less likely to be obtained.

    Your average gun guy isn't going away to prison for a lengthy amount of time to keep his toy.
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,296
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.

    And I think it's straight up foul and inhuman to penalize people who haven't committed any crime because some test has flagged them up as someone who might do in the future.

    That shit just straight up isn't justifiable, we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

    So I shouldn't assume that a cat locked in an aviary will inevitably kill all the birds there since it has been fed cat food all its life?

    This isn't saying most people who are psychopaths are wantonly committing grave crimes, but they are innately compelled to do selfish and unethical things to get what they want. They can't help themselves, like how a cat can't help itself from going after prey.

    Unlike the historically misguided and inhumane treatment of people using the classics i.e., race, religion, and gender, this is a measurable neurological condition that reaches into all these facets of society, and those who have this condition are described by psychologists as "intraspecies predators".

    So please answer this truthfully, if you had a kid, would you have no problem if one of the caretakers was psychopath?

    Prentky and Knight (1991) assessed the prevalence of psychopathy among sex offenders in a treatment center. The PCL was completed on 154 participants. These authors found that 45.3% of 95 rapists and 30.5% of 59 child molesters met the PCL criteria for psychopathy.

    Considering psychopaths only represent ~2% of the population that's a significant amount of them within a population of sex offenders; and interestingly enough, pedophiles are segmented from society and aren't able to do certain jobs for safety reasons.


    main-qimg-d42a927714d8cf7070d455c70cd947dc


    Do you think having screening assessments for those who take care of young children or carry a badge and a gun is any different for the background checks needed for many jobs? It honestly makes me ponder, at what point does being an advocate of indiscriminate and unfettered freedom become the same as supporting negligence?



    It depends on prior offences and age, any prior offences, no chance and the older the better because that will have been more time having the opportunity to do something but not.

    A young one who hasn't had opportunity to do anything, yeah I guess I would be a bit nervous and cautious about it but at the same time I wouldn't feel right writing someone off who hasn't actually done anything.

    The best compromise would probably be having all carers being recorded regardless of their state, that way incidents can be avoided without discrimination.

    Just because someone is lacking in empathy doesn't mean they're automatically going to do the most monstrous shit possible at every opportunity.

    You have things self preservation of knowing things are illegal and not wanting to be caught and also factors like preferences ect, believe it or not not everyone is a pedophile only held back by empathy for their potential victims.

    Now let me give you a question in return, what if your kid turned out to be a psychopath, what if someone close to you like a brother or uncle took the test and flagged up signs they might be one?
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,380
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure an additional restriction on having a semi-auto rifle with a high capacity magazine wouldn't be pointless or redundant.

    You cited ease of opportunity. Do you know what makes mass murder an easy opportunity? Assault rifles.

    Except Restrictions are pointless as we don't enforce the laws we have on the books now, plus there so many loopholes.

    Also the shooter is rich, you think making his ammo more expensive would make it he has less? He will just spend more.

    It's worth trying. You can always ramp up enforcement, it's not like crackdowns have never happened before.

    If certain guns were made illegal they wouldn't all suddenly disappear and become impossible to obtain but they would instantly become a lot more expensive and less likely to be obtained.

    Your average gun guy isn't going away to prison for a lengthy amount of time to keep his toy.

    How bout ramping up the enforcement of the gun laws we have now First before you write new laws.

    Even the strictest of gun restrictions right now is a joke. Writing laws don't stop psycho killer criminals that already decided and are committed to to their heinous acts.
    No Criminal would be like "oh there are new gun laws, I better watch out and not use this gun". They are going to see at it as "look at all these people who are now powerless to stop me".

    We can't trust the government to figure out that people need health care, provide relief for Puerto Rico or Balance the budget.
    And you think the Government is going to write up a bunch a bunch of new gun laws is going to help when they do not bother to enforce the laws we already have now.
    You are a special kind of idiot if you believe that.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • coNcoN Joined: Posts: 876 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 5
    Darksakul wrote: »
    coN wrote: »
    dab00g wrote: »
    Congress could have closed loopholes on bump stocks, silencers, assault rifle mods, crazy people, background checks but the nra paid of 58 congressmen
    What are these loopholes do you speak of?

    Do you have any examples to help clarify?

    There all kinds of crazy loop holes and I can't touch on them all, but like you can't ship a while AR 15 Rifle (civilian version of the M16) in the mail, but you can ship individual parts.
    You can own but not buy certain guns, but there nothing prohibiting buying all the parts to said gun. You can also "inherit" guns you can't normally buy.
    Also Gunshows don't require the normal background checks buying a gun from a Brick-n-mortar store has to do.
    Concerning AR15's, sure you can get everything via mail. Except the lower, which is the gun portion of the rifle and has to be purchased via FFL which means filling out form 4473, including a phone call with a background check. Without the lower, all those parts dont do anything. Where is the loophole there?

    The next portion needs more clarification concerning "nothing prohibiting buying all the parts to said gun" (that cannot be purchased but owned) especially when the gun portion of any gun must be purchased via FFL. Like above, where is the loophole?

    As for the inheriting of guns you can't normally buy, I'm assuming youre referring to the 1986 Firearm Act (which name I cant remember at the moment, Firearm Owners Protection or some shit). Guns of this nature are typically owned by collectors. Should the said collector pass away, someone simply cannot just inherit the gun. The ATF regulates the shit out of these types of firearms, suppressors, etc which is why crimes with these items are exceedingly rare. Its the one thing they actually do correctly. IIRC Upon time of death, there is a notice sent out for any firearms owned under the said act. To gain ownership, you must provide proof of relationship, then comply with the NFA and fill out paperwork, submit some paperwork to the ATF and your local Sheriff's office with notice of intent, and even after all the months of waiting for extremely thorough background checks, there is no guarantee you will get the okay to inherit it. If you are found in possession of said gun without any proper paperwork, a federal judge will throw the book at you and youll likely go to prison for the rest of your life.

    Because of this, no one has been dumb enough to try to get around it. However, I wont discount the fact that it wont happen because theres a first time for everything, but the ATF will be close behind. 404 loophole?

    Gun shows, I cant speak for them. Ive only ever been to SAXET gun shows who are the main proprietors of gun shows in Texas, and all tables have 4473 forms stacked all over. I dont know about other states and how they conduct their business. Same with private sales.

    3D printed guns? I wont get into it since it costs shit-tons of money, not to mention they wont be viable, let alone reliable especially when the metallurgy sucks if metals are being used. Forging (or hell, even proper casting) of steel would be superior in all regards i.e. not 3D printing. Here's a link that would be able to articulate it better than I ever could - https://3dprint.com/139537/3d-printed-guns/
    Tee-Fucking-Hee...
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,651
    edited October 5
    I like White Shadow's posts are triggering people like WHOA. I guess this thread is going to be the Current World Affairs thread,lol?

    Having a CT scan would be a good measure.
    "Racism died in the 80's and 90's. Period." - ParryAll 11/10/2016
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/146396/the-current-state-of-the-world-and-us-updated-first-post/p237

    "I was walking home and decided to not get shot at by a Muslim by not interfering and if people want to keep enriching the US with diversity then that's their decision. Also, she was already getting raped. Me interfering would have most likely resulted in the Muslim dude getting killed and then the media picking it up as a hate crime. I just kept walking and I think I made the right choice." - ElderGod http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/208447/the-american-government-thread-youre-fired-no-really-gtfo/p424
  • coNcoN Joined: Posts: 876 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 5
    DOUBLE POST
    Tee-Fucking-Hee...
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,651
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.

    And I think it's straight up foul and inhuman to penalize people who haven't committed any crime because some test has flagged them up as someone who might do in the future.

    That shit just straight up isn't justifiable, we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

    So I shouldn't assume that a cat locked in an aviary will inevitably kill all the birds there since it has been fed cat food all its life?

    This isn't saying most people who are psychopaths are wantonly committing grave crimes, but they are innately compelled to do selfish and unethical things to get what they want. They can't help themselves, like how a cat can't help itself from going after prey.

    Unlike the historically misguided and inhumane treatment of people using the classics i.e., race, religion, and gender, this is a measurable neurological condition that reaches into all these facets of society, and those who have this condition are described by psychologists as "intraspecies predators".

    So please answer this truthfully, if you had a kid, would you have no problem if one of the caretakers was psychopath?

    Prentky and Knight (1991) assessed the prevalence of psychopathy among sex offenders in a treatment center. The PCL was completed on 154 participants. These authors found that 45.3% of 95 rapists and 30.5% of 59 child molesters met the PCL criteria for psychopathy.

    Considering psychopaths only represent ~2% of the population that's a significant amount of them within a population of sex offenders; and interestingly enough, pedophiles are segmented from society and aren't able to do certain jobs for safety reasons.


    main-qimg-d42a927714d8cf7070d455c70cd947dc


    Do you think having screening assessments for those who take care of young children or carry a badge and a gun is any different for the background checks needed for many jobs? It honestly makes me ponder, at what point does being an advocate of indiscriminate and unfettered freedom become the same as supporting negligence?



    It depends on prior offences and age, any prior offences, no chance and the older the better because that will have been more time having the opportunity to do something but not.

    A young one who hasn't had opportunity to do anything, yeah I guess I would be a bit nervous and cautious about it but at the same time I wouldn't feel right writing someone off who hasn't actually done anything.

    Age has nothing to do with it. The shooter in Vegas was 64 years old. There were red flags that were ignored as usual.

    The best compromise would probably be having all carers being recorded regardless of their state, that way incidents can be avoided without discrimination.

    Just because someone is lacking in empathy doesn't mean they're automatically going to do the most monstrous shit possible at every opportunity.

    There's a precedent for it. Get mad at those that set the precedent. It's not unwarranted skepticism about these types of people, and I wouldn't blame them for being skeptical.
    You have things self preservation of knowing things are illegal and not wanting to be caught and also factors like preferences ect, believe it or not not everyone is a pedophile only held back by empathy for their potential victims.

    Now let me give you a question in return, what if your kid turned out to be a psychopath, what if someone close to you like a brother or uncle took the test and flagged up signs they might be one?

    There's nothing wrong with having flags giving people a heads up. There's data that can't be refuted that can be looked at, that warrant people's skepticism
    "Racism died in the 80's and 90's. Period." - ParryAll 11/10/2016
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/146396/the-current-state-of-the-world-and-us-updated-first-post/p237

    "I was walking home and decided to not get shot at by a Muslim by not interfering and if people want to keep enriching the US with diversity then that's their decision. Also, she was already getting raped. Me interfering would have most likely resulted in the Muslim dude getting killed and then the media picking it up as a hate crime. I just kept walking and I think I made the right choice." - ElderGod http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/208447/the-american-government-thread-youre-fired-no-really-gtfo/p424
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,296
    So it's ok to discriminate against entire groups of people based on the actions of those who conform to the steryotype?

    This is what it comes down to, you want to discriminate against people before any crime is commited because you're scared of the steryotype.

    Everyone deserves a chance to have a normal life until they fuck it up for themselves no matter how they were born.

    We've fought wars for this, people have gone to jail for this and died for this, the idea that a bunch of tests and scans can throw that out of the window is disgusting.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • dab00gdab00g Joined: Posts: 20,778
    This is like reading a discussion on the themes of zootopia
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,006
    I'm ready for the US to become like that Psycho-pass anime. :tup:
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,651
    Iduno wrote: »
    So it's ok to discriminate against entire groups of people based on the actions of those who conform to the steryotype?

    This is what it comes down to, you want to discriminate against people before any crime is commited because you're scared of the steryotype.

    Everyone deserves a chance to have a normal life until they fuck it up for themselves no matter how they were born.

    We've fought wars for this, people have gone to jail for this and died for this, the idea that a bunch of tests and scans can throw that out of the window is disgusting.

    There's discrimination on gender, race, age. Those are bad.

    Using it as one piece of a puzzle to put together with other pieces to assess whether someone is a threat isn't discrimination.
    "Racism died in the 80's and 90's. Period." - ParryAll 11/10/2016
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/146396/the-current-state-of-the-world-and-us-updated-first-post/p237

    "I was walking home and decided to not get shot at by a Muslim by not interfering and if people want to keep enriching the US with diversity then that's their decision. Also, she was already getting raped. Me interfering would have most likely resulted in the Muslim dude getting killed and then the media picking it up as a hate crime. I just kept walking and I think I made the right choice." - ElderGod http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/208447/the-american-government-thread-youre-fired-no-really-gtfo/p424
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,296
    Femto wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    So it's ok to discriminate against entire groups of people based on the actions of those who conform to the steryotype?

    This is what it comes down to, you want to discriminate against people before any crime is commited because you're scared of the steryotype.

    Everyone deserves a chance to have a normal life until they fuck it up for themselves no matter how they were born.

    We've fought wars for this, people have gone to jail for this and died for this, the idea that a bunch of tests and scans can throw that out of the window is disgusting.

    There's discrimination on gender, race, age. Those are bad.

    Using it as one piece of a puzzle to put together with other pieces to assess whether someone is a threat isn't discrimination.
    If the person in question hasn't actually done anything or prepared to do anything it is though.

    The other pieces need to come first and be such good evidence that you'll have someone bang to rights without needing to profile in the first place, in which case yay redundancy.

    That said this would be a whole lot easier if people

    A) Weren't legally allowed to own guns that powerful and

    B)Weren't legally able to stock up on guns

    Your problem isn't empathy or not it's the ability to get completely stocked up and prepared for a mass shooting whilst being a completly law abiding citizen untill you actually start it.

    You'd never manage that over here in England and we aren't testing for psychopaths either.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • InfernomanInfernoman Bro as Hell Joined: Posts: 9,431
    Psychopathic people do other things besides need guns to hurt people.
    Who else in a movie wrestled an evil lesbian and by forcefully kissing her, turned her not only heterosexual but good as well? Exactly. That, my friend, is the power of Sean motherfucking Connery - Valaris
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,651
    The U.S. isn't testing for psychopaths and has been letting people stock up, so until legislation passes that puts limits on gun ownership and closes loopholes what else are people to suggest?
    "Racism died in the 80's and 90's. Period." - ParryAll 11/10/2016
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/146396/the-current-state-of-the-world-and-us-updated-first-post/p237

    "I was walking home and decided to not get shot at by a Muslim by not interfering and if people want to keep enriching the US with diversity then that's their decision. Also, she was already getting raped. Me interfering would have most likely resulted in the Muslim dude getting killed and then the media picking it up as a hate crime. I just kept walking and I think I made the right choice." - ElderGod http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/208447/the-american-government-thread-youre-fired-no-really-gtfo/p424
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,296
    I'd assume you'd also need time to start putting in legislation banning people from jobs where there can effect others based on these tests like was originally put forward by @white shadow . (Which let's be honest will be most well paying jobs, can you think of many high responsibility jobs where you don't have an effect on other people)

    So you'll be waiting either way, only one way you're waiting to majorly fuck innocent people because you're scared they might go off on one based on some fucking tests.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    People trying to do a real life Minority Report.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Infernoman wrote: »
    Iduno wrote: »
    Bypassing the whole gun debate a bit, the thing that I've always been equally fascinated and disturbed by are the most toxic portion of human race- psychopaths and sociopaths.

    They shells of humans with superficial charm, manipulative, with virtually zero empathy, only seeking wealth, power, and self-glorification by any means. Seeing as this guy's father was a noted psychopath and career criminal, and psychopathy is inheritable, do you think that people with antisocial tendencies should be tagged or refused certain privileges (like firearm possession) and human welfare/financial/government-oriented jobs where they can wreak havoc?

    Bear in mind this is different from being a mental health issue since psychopaths and sociopaths are not mentally ill, just devoid of the standard moral compass most humans naturally possess.

    "Oh hi there you haven't actually committed any crimes yets but we're going to treat you like a second class citizen because you've flagged up a few signs on our test"

    Yeah fuck that.

    Projecting empathy for individuals who don't really give a damn about anyone but themselves and are callously manipulative is ironic. You do realize we already have facilities specifically designed to house said individuals. Prison. 80% of male inmates and 65% of female inmates have antisocial personality disorder. So we essentially wait until they rob, rape and murder before we lock them up. They also have a shallow understanding of consequences, lack remorse, and are highly impulsive.

    Even when prison psychologists tried to make inmates with sociopathic tendencies more empathetic they realized that their sessions only made then better at mimicking and manipulating.

    And it's actually not that hard to screen people for psychopathy since there are neurological markers (or lack thereof) in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala responsible for feeling empathy. I'd rather live in a world that doesn't have psychopathic nurses, kindergarten teachers, "for the people" politicians, lawyers, judges and yes, gun owners.

    I recall you brought this up before and also added that in the past when sociopathic individuals were within a community, if they weren't being helpful, they were practically left alone or exiled if you will for the good of the community. Over time as we have progressed through history, we have been slowly allowing these dangerous people to thrive via other means believing that anyone can be reformed. Social media amplifies this more by giving them a voice others of their ilk can relate to.

    Yes, good memory. Inuits had a long-standing tradition of exiling anyone with selfish tendencies. Fortunately for them, when you have only modest amount of individuals in a camp they were easier to spot.

    Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.”

    When your survival in a harsh, unforgiving landscape depends on mutual corporation, it's important to remove those parasites as soon as possible.

    When I look at the past 20th century, America and the world has only created systems and technology for them to thrive. Look at the financial, legal, corporate and political sectors. We wonder why these problems keep happening, why anyone would create financial systems to fail, or laws that work against our citizen's interests, or have pertinent information that proves defendant's innocence but still prosecute to keep a perfect record. It's been staring in our faces the whole time. I'm not even going to get into the world changers like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin responsible for countless millions of deaths collectively.

    And like @odin said regarding that creepy kid, sociopaths and psychopaths are notorious for getting other people to behave like them due to their fearlessness, manipulativeness and charm. They're the corporate CEOs on the top, and the gang leaders on the bottom. So it's not long until they create an invisible set of antisocial bylaws for modern society to follow even after they're gone.

    Going back to Stephen Paddock- he was a son of a convicted criminal psychopath, a highly motivated self-made multimillionaire with a gambling addiction, who Illegally modified his cache of guns, and then premeditatedly shot at a concert murdering 59 people.

    All those facts by themselves wouldn't lead to anything concrete, but together they pretty much spell out the underlying cause for such an inexplicable and coldhearted decision by a seemingly benign individual.

    In other words Inuits exiled people after they committed crimes not before just because they thought they might like you want.

    Inuits didn't have MRI scanners and genetic marking capabilities to track the neurologically unempathetic, so they have no choice but to rely on repeated transgressions as a deciding factor. I also never said anything about about exiling non-offending psychopaths from society (where would they go anyway?) just screen and prevent them from gaining careers where they can cause a lot of damage. I, for one, wouldn't like the idea of a sociopathic cop with a gun, or an unfeeling psychopathic caretaker at a daycare center. But hey, that's just me.

    And I think it's straight up foul and inhuman to penalize people who haven't committed any crime because some test has flagged them up as someone who might do in the future.

    That shit just straight up isn't justifiable, we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty for a reason.

    So I shouldn't assume that a cat locked in an aviary will inevitably kill all the birds there since it has been fed cat food all its life?

    This isn't saying most people who are psychopaths are wantonly committing grave crimes, but they are innately compelled to do selfish and unethical things to get what they want. They can't help themselves, like how a cat can't help itself from going after prey.

    Unlike the historically misguided and inhumane treatment of people using the classics i.e., race, religion, and gender, this is a measurable neurological condition that reaches into all these facets of society, and those who have this condition are described by psychologists as "intraspecies predators".

    So please answer this truthfully, if you had a kid, would you have no problem if one of the caretakers was psychopath?

    Prentky and Knight (1991) assessed the prevalence of psychopathy among sex offenders in a treatment center. The PCL was completed on 154 participants. These authors found that 45.3% of 95 rapists and 30.5% of 59 child molesters met the PCL criteria for psychopathy.

    Considering psychopaths only represent ~2% of the population that's a significant amount of them within a population of sex offenders; and interestingly enough, pedophiles are segmented from society and aren't able to do certain jobs for safety reasons.


    main-qimg-d42a927714d8cf7070d455c70cd947dc


    Do you think having screening assessments for those who take care of young children or carry a badge and a gun is any different for the background checks needed for many jobs? It honestly makes me ponder, at what point does being an advocate of indiscriminate and unfettered freedom become the same as supporting negligence?





    Just because someone is lacking in empathy doesn't mean they're automatically going to do the most monstrous shit possible at every opportunity.

    You have things self preservation of knowing things are illegal and not wanting to be caught and also factors like preferences ect, believe it or not not everyone is a pedophile only held back by empathy for their potential victims

    Yes neurotypical people also do bad things, that doesn't mean that we should ignore people that have a significantly higher chance of doing horrible things when looking at their population group.

    Not every action has to be monstrous to be destructive. For example, a psychopathic daycare worker could simply be consistently negligent until something due to never genuinely caring about the welfare of the children or ignore things a parent would tend to, like a baby crying incessantly because they're sick or in distress. Preprogrammed apathy can be just as dangerous as malice.

    Casey Anthony is a perfect example of this kind of selfishness.
    Now let me give you a question in return, what if your kid turned out to be a psychopath, what if someone close to you like a brother or uncle took the test and flagged up signs they might be one?

    That's a fair question. If I had a kid with psychopathic tendencies I would try my best to nurture him or her as best as I could and instill value systems based on consequence-based logic rather than empathy based comparisons. I would most likely coordinate with a mental health professional and keep a close eye on them until they came of age (e.g., not missing dogs in the neighborhood). And yes, I would steer my kid away from professions that exacerbated their predator-like instincts. Psychopaths can potentially be productive members of society given that they grow up in pristine environments with 2 parent households, which is a daunting goal to achieve in a modern society.

    If my brother or uncle got flagged, then what could I do? Not much, but most likely I would have already judged their past actions and determine how much interaction I would want my immediate family to have with them, especially if there's children involved.
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!