10/01/2017 Las Vegas Strip Shooting

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Comments

  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,122 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This thread.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I love punk's posting style. Those emotes are hilarious.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,245
    coN wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    coN wrote: »
    dab00g wrote: »
    Congress could have closed loopholes on bump stocks, silencers, assault rifle mods, crazy people, background checks but the nra paid of 58 congressmen
    What are these loopholes do you speak of?

    Do you have any examples to help clarify?

    There all kinds of crazy loop holes and I can't touch on them all, but like you can't ship a while AR 15 Rifle (civilian version of the M16) in the mail, but you can ship individual parts.
    You can own but not buy certain guns, but there nothing prohibiting buying all the parts to said gun. You can also "inherit" guns you can't normally buy.
    Also Gunshows don't require the normal background checks buying a gun from a Brick-n-mortar store has to do.
    Concerning AR15's, sure you can get everything via mail. Except the lower, which is the gun portion of the rifle and has to be purchased via FFL which means filling out form 4473, including a phone call with a background check. Without the lower, all those parts dont do anything. Where is the loophole there?

    The next portion needs more clarification concerning "nothing prohibiting buying all the parts to said gun" (that cannot be purchased but owned) especially when the gun portion of any gun must be purchased via FFL. Like above, where is the loophole?

    As for the inheriting of guns you can't normally buy, I'm assuming youre referring to the 1986 Firearm Act (which name I cant remember at the moment, Firearm Owners Protection or some shit). Guns of this nature are typically owned by collectors. Should the said collector pass away, someone simply cannot just inherit the gun. The ATF regulates the shit out of these types of firearms, suppressors, etc which is why crimes with these items are exceedingly rare. Its the one thing they actually do correctly. IIRC Upon time of death, there is a notice sent out for any firearms owned under the said act. To gain ownership, you must provide proof of relationship, then comply with the NFA and fill out paperwork, submit some paperwork to the ATF and your local Sheriff's office with notice of intent, and even after all the months of waiting for extremely thorough background checks, there is no guarantee you will get the okay to inherit it. If you are found in possession of said gun without any proper paperwork, a federal judge will throw the book at you and youll likely go to prison for the rest of your life.

    Because of this, no one has been dumb enough to try to get around it. However, I wont discount the fact that it wont happen because theres a first time for everything, but the ATF will be close behind. 404 loophole?

    Gun shows, I cant speak for them. Ive only ever been to SAXET gun shows who are the main proprietors of gun shows in Texas, and all tables have 4473 forms stacked all over. I dont know about other states and how they conduct their business. Same with private sales.

    3D printed guns? I wont get into it since it costs shit-tons of money, not to mention they wont be viable, let alone reliable especially when the metallurgy sucks if metals are being used. Forging (or hell, even proper casting) of steel would be superior in all regards i.e. not 3D printing. Here's a link that would be able to articulate it better than I ever could - https://3dprint.com/139537/3d-printed-guns/

    And yet I know too many people who actually skirt around those restrictions. Ether via loopholes or poor enforcement
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,331
    I'm sure there was a less disturbing way to make that point, but that would require being clever.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 6,392
    I'm pretty sure America is actually trying to shiv the NRA from that position, but whatever.
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  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 6,392
    It was.

    But I will side with po here, because the more you push the envelope to make a point, the more desensitised we become, and the less inclined we are to take that message to heart.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,331
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I'm sure there was a less disturbing way to make that point, but that would require being clever.

    I think the point was to be disturbing, kind of like mass murder is disturbing.

    Yeah but political cartoons are supposed to be clever, even when doing a social commentary.

    The point could have still been made without the macabre imagery.

    That's the problem I have with a lot of modern writers and artists these days-- They are too ham-fisted and direct.

    Painting a big neon sign over your message that screams "THIS IS THE POINT! GET IT? CLEVER, RIGHT?", kind of dilutes the impact and the spark that happens when someone is allowed to connect the dots organically.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Not everything needs to be intricately subtle like Rick and Morty.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,331
    Not everything needs to be intricately subtle like Rick and Morty.

    And not everything needs to be as blatant and loud as Family Guy... It's that kind of shit that leads these shooters to think they need to be bigger, louder, and more destructive than the last murdering shit-stain of a person.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    po pimpus wrote: »
    Not everything needs to be intricately subtle like Rick and Morty.

    And not everything needs to be as blatant and loud as Family Guy... It's that kind of shit that leads these shooters to think they need to be bigger, louder, and more destructive than the last murdering shit-stain of a person.

    I think you missed the joke.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,331
    po pimpus wrote: »
    Not everything needs to be intricately subtle like Rick and Morty.

    And not everything needs to be as blatant and loud as Family Guy... It's that kind of shit that leads these shooters to think they need to be bigger, louder, and more destructive than the last murdering shit-stain of a person.

    I think you missed the joke.

    I did. Sarcasm is hard online.

    Point still stands.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • coNcoN Joined: Posts: 876 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 6
    Darksakul wrote: »
    And yet I know too many people who actually skirt around those restrictions. Ether via loopholes or poor enforcement
    Sooooooooo, no counter-arguments? No teardown or examples of how the loopholes are broken, you just... "know". Umm hmm, I believe you. /sarcasm

    Moreover, you claim to have firsthand knowledge of people you know skirting around those restrictions (which I'd love to know how) and yet you do nothing...

    You allow it to happen.

    Nice.
    Tee-Fucking-Hee...
  • dab00gdab00g Joined: Posts: 21,164
    So you would keep everything the same

    Honestly, what is your point?
  • coNcoN Joined: Posts: 876 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 6
    dab00g wrote: »
    So you would keep everything the same

    Honestly, what is your point?
    Who said about keeping anything the same? This is about loopholes. On the previous page Darksakul said people bypass the various gun loopholes. People love to throw the whole loophole argument but can never provide examples on how the loophole was bypassed. I gave examples on procedures on the things he mentioned and wanted him to explain how those loopholes were bypassed. Which is where we are currently.

    Im not talking about new restrictions, no politics, so dont try to make it about that. Im just concerned about the facts about how these current restrictions are being bypassed and some examples of it happening since no FFL is stupid enough to ship the gun portion of any firearm (complete stripped AR15 lower, Glock frame, etc.) to someones front door.

    So now, as you can see per his reply on this page, there are no counter-arguments since he just "knows". But because he claims to know first-hand, people who "skirt around the restrictions", (and apparently is an enabler since he doesnt report it) hes in a position to explain the said loopholes, dont you think?

    PS - I wanna make it clear that its strongly implied that the loopholes are of a legal nature, so dont think of using the black market argument because otherwise it wouldve been stated as such in the first place.
    Tee-Fucking-Hee...
  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 6,392
    It's Nevada, though, so that's nothing.

    Supposedly there's no notification of when you buy single weapons; but I recall them saying there would have been a notification if he bought, say, two handguns at once.
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  • InfernomanInfernoman Bro as Hell Joined: Posts: 9,614
    RockBogart wrote: »
    DLWJE63WAAAfN5V.jpg:large


    :rofl:

    It's always two kinds of comments

    "he seemed like a normal guy...didn't think he would do something like that"

    And

    "I always felt like there was something seemed weird about him."
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,658
    po pimpus wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I'm sure there was a less disturbing way to make that point, but that would require being clever.

    I think the point was to be disturbing, kind of like mass murder is disturbing.

    Yeah but political cartoons are supposed to be clever, even when doing a social commentary.

    The point could have still been made without the macabre imagery.

    That's the problem I have with a lot of modern writers and artists these days-- They are too ham-fisted and direct.

    Painting a big neon sign over your message that screams "THIS IS THE POINT! GET IT? CLEVER, RIGHT?", kind of dilutes the impact and the spark that happens when someone is allowed to connect the dots organically.

    You get that in everything now, even games. Not so much literature if you know where to look but movies, games, television, they're all so afraid you'll miss the point they thrust it in your face. I find the point tends to be more effective when people have to look. A really clever allegory can change how people think.
    2 Kings 2:24
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,911
    po pimpus wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I'm sure there was a less disturbing way to make that point, but that would require being clever.

    I think the point was to be disturbing, kind of like mass murder is disturbing.

    Yeah but political cartoons are supposed to be clever, even when doing a social commentary.

    The point could have still been made without the macabre imagery.

    That's the problem I have with a lot of modern writers and artists these days-- They are too ham-fisted and direct.

    Painting a big neon sign over your message that screams "THIS IS THE POINT! GET IT? CLEVER, RIGHT?", kind of dilutes the impact and the spark that happens when someone is allowed to connect the dots organically.

    Being desensitized happened a loony time ago. Sandy Hook happened and still nothing new. The shock here is the number of people hit.
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  • angelpalmangelpalm Stop enjoying things Joined: Posts: 24,455 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    @raz0r that gun nut bingo pic is scarily accurate. I can literally spam that pic on my facebook feed when people are foaming at the mouth and just point out a square. XD

    I know they gotta be sooooo pissed.
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  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,245
    edited October 6
    coN wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    And yet I know too many people who actually skirt around those restrictions. Ether via loopholes or poor enforcement
    Sooooooooo, no counter-arguments? No teardown or examples of how the loopholes are broken, you just... "know". Umm hmm, I believe you. /sarcasm

    Moreover, you claim to have firsthand knowledge of people you know skirting around those restrictions (which I'd love to know how) and yet you do nothing...

    You allow it to happen.

    Nice.
    Yes I allow a single gun sale to happen, thousands if not tens of thousands of them happen every day.

    Yes I allow someone I know to take a loophole to buying guns. Although they loophole they taken is to get parts for cheaper, the gun itself is perfectly legal in the state. Not everyone who buys guns is automatically psychopath. The weapon only have a safety and fire settings and no 3 round burst or automatic setting, also their magazines are 10 round capacity not the 30 you see with military models.
    They are still registered and obtain legally, thus No law is broken.

    As for the exact loophole, you know what I forgot. It has been like 8 or 9 months and I can't expected to remember the legal loopholes other people have done in the past.

    Still feel like being a self righteous dick about it?

    Got something with a real point to say? No then shut up.
    Wasted wrote: »
    It's Nevada, though, so that's nothing.

    Supposedly there's no notification of when you buy single weapons; but I recall them saying there would have been a notification if he bought, say, two handguns at once.

    You know for a fee, you can remotely operate a fully automatic weapon on a gun range over the internet. There a Company in Nevada that does it, you have limited turning/aiming range to move and someone on site can do easily do an override and disable the weapon if necessary. You still have to pay for ammo and all range fees, as well as the service charge for someone to set up the gun for you and cleaning up spend casings.
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,658
    I saw a little bit of coverage on some of the people that saved lives by rescuing wounded.

    The majority of the coverage (here at least) is focused on Trump, the gun lobby and the shooter.
    2 Kings 2:24
  • StockyJamStockyJam My nigga Networkingyuppy Joined: Posts: 5,832
    theres alot more hispanics in that list than i expected.

    uh...why did this thread get stickied to the top of the gd page tho?
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,245
    StockyJam wrote: »
    theres alot more hispanics in that list than i expected.

    uh...why did this thread get stickied to the top of the gd page tho?

    I dont see this thread needing a sticky.

    Where the sticky for Puerto Rico ?
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
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  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,959 mod
    edited October 7
    (Ah. I forgot to note that Derrick "Bo" Taylor and Denise Cohen were husband and wife? I will edit my last post and the original post to reflect this.)

    Darksakul, there isn't a Puerto Rico thread at all. Otherwise I would sticky that one too given they're going to be fucked over until at least next March.

    So either make a competent one to prove that you supposedly care or kindly shut the fuck up. I know you never seem to tire of talking out of your gaping asshole, but Athena Christ, you could at least pretend to have some decency and blather in some other thread that doesn't revolve around a bunch of people dying.

    As for this thread, it doesn't "need" a sticky, but there's no harm it getting one for week to a month given there's no other thread that currently deserves one and all of facts aren't out about this yet even as much as I don't care about giving the gunman any attention. If anything, then this just reminds me that I should un-sticky Shatterstar's thread given I stickied that almost a year ago and he is unfortunately not getting any less dead.

    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I saw a little bit of coverage on some of the people that saved lives by rescuing wounded.

    The majority of the coverage (here at least) is focused on Trump, the gun lobby and the shooter.

    It's unfortunately the same here. Outside of PBS Newshour and Anderson Cooper's show on CNN, the majority of the coverage is focused on the shooter and non-responses of the other two still living assholes you mentioned.

    I forget. Where are you again, @FrostyAU? Australia?

    StockyJam wrote: »
    theres alot more hispanics in that list than i expected.

    It's not too surprising, really, when you realize that almost half of the people--26 IIRC--who died were from southern California and even the most incompetent Americans knows that southern California has a lot of Hispanics.
    Post edited by The Damned on
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  • coNcoN Joined: Posts: 876 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 8
    "Darksakul wrote:
    ***facepalm***
    There was a point and you just proved my point. What was that you ask? People who cry wolf about loopholes typically don't know what the fuck their talking about since they don't know what the actual loopholes are.

    Buying rifle parts from state-to-state is not illegal. Everything you said, is not a loophole. I (or anyone for that matter) can buy all the fucking parts i/they want except for one thing...

    The actual gun portion of the firearm. As stated previously, without that one portion, those parts don't do a damn thing. And again, no FFL possessing business is stupid enough to ship a serial numbered gun portion to someone directly. It must go FFL to FFL. If your "friend" was magically getting these serial labeled gun portions sent to him/her directly at his house (which he wasn't because that shit is tracked), THAT wouldve been a loophole. And because of the tracking, said friend would've been in a federal prison, the FFL holder who sold the part would lose their license and all staff would be held liable.

    Example, I can go buy barrels, handguards, bolt carrier groups, the upper, adjustable stock, etc, ordered from other states and have it sent to my home but the moment I want to buy the lower, cue the sound of a car slamming on the brakes. I can't go to gunbroker (or any online gun dealer) and order a AR15 lower and have them to send it to me at my home address. The first thing they'll ask is "what FFL is this going to and do you have a copy of their FFL license?"

    I won't address anything else I mentioned in my previous posts since there's no need.

    I'm willing to bet that whatever you think are loopholes, aren't loopholes at all. Next time, if you're going to discuss shit like this, know what the fuck you're talking about.
    Post edited by coN on
    Tee-Fucking-Hee...
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,247
    Someone mentioned a new theory besides Islamic terrorism (even though we know that when the investigation concludes, it will be Islamic terrorism); the new theory is that this shooting was a mob/mafia hit
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,245
    coN wrote: »
    know what the fuck you're talking about.
    You first. :coffee:
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,658
    @The Damned

    Yeah Australia. We actually get PBS Newshour here, it's on SBS which is a government special interest channel. Not a lot of people watch it but I catch it on my lunch sometimes.
    2 Kings 2:24
  • Rhio2kRhio2k Senior Member Joined: Posts: 11,534 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 8
    I don't think the media should be so quick to label this guy a terrorist. He committed mass murder, but it wasn't against a specific group, nor was there a motive beyond just wanting to kill a bunch of strangers. Terrorism is, simply put: a public act (up to and including destruction of property, violence, and mass murder) that incites fear for the furthering of a political or religious agenda. Just because an act kills more than one person and people were afraid during the commission of said act doesn't automatically qualify the incident as terrorism. That's just some knee-jerk sheep shit. This dildo acted alone, had no demands, and instead of remaining at large, threatening to do it again, he topped himself. Now if there was a note reading like "I am one of many. We will keep doing this until you are afraid to even leave your homes unless you hear and bow to these demands, signed, whatever group" in the guy's room/facebook page/...myspace (hey, he WAS crazy), ok, sure: Terrorism.


    Weird how people without spare money think being rich makes life sublime, while people WITH money to burn seem to be prone to becoming suicidal/sociopathic nutbags.
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  • NickRocksNickRocks Knock Knock Joined: Posts: 22,876
    mo money mo problems
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    Good video
  • Rhio2kRhio2k Senior Member Joined: Posts: 11,534 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 8
    ...I miss when Cracked was entertaining, instead of being a political mouthpiece.
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    i miss when cracked was just a more gross not-as-well-drawn version of mad magazine
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  • InfernomanInfernoman Bro as Hell Joined: Posts: 9,614


    Stephen Molyneux puts together more of the facts and information.
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  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Worker warned hotel before Las Vegas shooter opened fire on crowd
    LAS VEGAS -- A maintenance worker said Wednesday he told hotel dispatchers to call police and report a gunman had opened fire with a rifle inside the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino hotel before the shooter began firing from his high-rise suite into a crowd at a nearby musical performance.

    The about whether better communication might have allowed police to respond more quickly and take out the gunman before he committed the .

    Worker Stephen Schuck says he was checking out a report of a jammed fire door on the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay when he heard gunshots and a hotel security guard, who had been shot in the leg, peeked out from an alcove and told him to take cover.

    "As soon as I started to go to a door to my left the rounds started coming down the hallway," Schuck said. "I could feel them pass right behind my head.

    "It was kind of relentless so I called over the radio what was going on," he said. "As soon as the shooting stopped we made our way down the hallway and took cover again and then the shooting started again."

    Police said Monday they believe gunman shot a hotel security guard through the door of his suite six minutes before he unleashed a barrage of bullets into the crowd of concert-goers, killing 58 people and injuring hundreds more.

    The injured guard used his radio and possibly a hallway phone to also call hotel dispatchers for help.

    That account differs dramatically from the one police gave last week when they said Paddock fired through the door of his room and injured the unarmed guard after shooting into the crowd.

    The company that owns Mandalay Bay has questioned the new timeline.

    "We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline," said Debra DeShong, a spokeswoman for MGM Resorts International. "We believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate. This remains an ongoing investigation with a lot of moving parts."

    Las Vegas police did not respond Tuesday night to questions about the hotel's statement.

    "Our officers got there as fast as they possibly could and they did what they were trained to do," Las Vegas assistant sheriff Todd Fasulo said earlier Tuesday.

    Gunshots can be heard in the background as Schuck reported the shooting on his radio, telling a dispatcher: "Call the police, someone's firing a gun up here. Someone's firing a rifle on the 32nd floor down the hallway."

    It was unclear if the hotel relayed the information to Las Vegas police, who did not respond to questions from The Associated Press about whether hotel security or anyone else in the hotel called 911 to report the gunfire.

    Joseph Giacalone, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired New York City police sergeant, said the new timeline "changes everything."

    "There absolutely was an opportunity in that timeframe that some of this could've been mitigated," he said.

    Nicole Rapp, whose mother was knocked to the ground and trampled at the country music concert said she's "having a hard time wrapping my head around" why police changed the timeline of the shooting.

    "It's very confusing to me that they are just discovering this a week later," she said. "How did we not know this before? It's traumatic for the victims and their families not to be sure of what happened."

    The six minutes that passed between the hallway shooting and the start of the shooting into the crowd wouldn't have been enough time for officers to stop the attack, said Ron Hosko, a former FBI assistant director who has worked on SWAT teams. Rather than rush in without a game plan, police would have been formulating the best response to the barricaded gunman, he said.

    "Maybe that's enough time to get the first patrolman onto the floor but the first patrolman is not going to go knock on that customer's door and say 'What's going on with 200 holes in the door?'" Hosko said.

    Undersheriff Kevin McMahill defended the hotel and said the encounter that night between Paddock and the security guard and maintenance man disrupted the gunman's plans. Paddock fired more than 1,000 bullets and had more than 1,000 rounds left in his room, the undersheriff said.

    "I can tell you I'm confident that he was not able to fully execute his heinous plan and it certainly had everything to do with being disrupted," McMahill said. He added, "I don't think the hotel dropped the ball."

    Law enforcement tells CBS News they're getting "a very good response" to billboards asking the public for help with information about Paddock and the shooting massacre.

    This is the first time I've heard of an injured security guard.
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,669
    Worker warned hotel before Las Vegas shooter opened fire on crowd
    LAS VEGAS -- A maintenance worker said Wednesday he told hotel dispatchers to call police and report a gunman had opened fire with a rifle inside the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino hotel before the shooter began firing from his high-rise suite into a crowd at a nearby musical performance.

    The about whether better communication might have allowed police to respond more quickly and take out the gunman before he committed the .

    Worker Stephen Schuck says he was checking out a report of a jammed fire door on the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay when he heard gunshots and a hotel security guard, who had been shot in the leg, peeked out from an alcove and told him to take cover.

    "As soon as I started to go to a door to my left the rounds started coming down the hallway," Schuck said. "I could feel them pass right behind my head.

    "It was kind of relentless so I called over the radio what was going on," he said. "As soon as the shooting stopped we made our way down the hallway and took cover again and then the shooting started again."

    Police said Monday they believe gunman shot a hotel security guard through the door of his suite six minutes before he unleashed a barrage of bullets into the crowd of concert-goers, killing 58 people and injuring hundreds more.

    The injured guard used his radio and possibly a hallway phone to also call hotel dispatchers for help.

    That account differs dramatically from the one police gave last week when they said Paddock fired through the door of his room and injured the unarmed guard after shooting into the crowd.

    The company that owns Mandalay Bay has questioned the new timeline.

    "We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline," said Debra DeShong, a spokeswoman for MGM Resorts International. "We believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate. This remains an ongoing investigation with a lot of moving parts."

    Las Vegas police did not respond Tuesday night to questions about the hotel's statement.

    "Our officers got there as fast as they possibly could and they did what they were trained to do," Las Vegas assistant sheriff Todd Fasulo said earlier Tuesday.

    Gunshots can be heard in the background as Schuck reported the shooting on his radio, telling a dispatcher: "Call the police, someone's firing a gun up here. Someone's firing a rifle on the 32nd floor down the hallway."

    It was unclear if the hotel relayed the information to Las Vegas police, who did not respond to questions from The Associated Press about whether hotel security or anyone else in the hotel called 911 to report the gunfire.

    Joseph Giacalone, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired New York City police sergeant, said the new timeline "changes everything."

    "There absolutely was an opportunity in that timeframe that some of this could've been mitigated," he said.

    Nicole Rapp, whose mother was knocked to the ground and trampled at the country music concert said she's "having a hard time wrapping my head around" why police changed the timeline of the shooting.

    "It's very confusing to me that they are just discovering this a week later," she said. "How did we not know this before? It's traumatic for the victims and their families not to be sure of what happened."

    The six minutes that passed between the hallway shooting and the start of the shooting into the crowd wouldn't have been enough time for officers to stop the attack, said Ron Hosko, a former FBI assistant director who has worked on SWAT teams. Rather than rush in without a game plan, police would have been formulating the best response to the barricaded gunman, he said.

    "Maybe that's enough time to get the first patrolman onto the floor but the first patrolman is not going to go knock on that customer's door and say 'What's going on with 200 holes in the door?'" Hosko said.

    Undersheriff Kevin McMahill defended the hotel and said the encounter that night between Paddock and the security guard and maintenance man disrupted the gunman's plans. Paddock fired more than 1,000 bullets and had more than 1,000 rounds left in his room, the undersheriff said.

    "I can tell you I'm confident that he was not able to fully execute his heinous plan and it certainly had everything to do with being disrupted," McMahill said. He added, "I don't think the hotel dropped the ball."

    Law enforcement tells CBS News they're getting "a very good response" to billboards asking the public for help with information about Paddock and the shooting massacre.

    This is the first time I've heard of an injured security guard.

    Yea the security guard story came out super late. Makes you wonder why.
  • InfernomanInfernoman Bro as Hell Joined: Posts: 9,614
    Now why is the story changing? Hmmmm...
    Who else in a movie wrestled an evil lesbian and by forcefully kissing her, turned her not only heterosexual but good as well? Exactly. That, my friend, is the power of Sean motherfucking Connery - Valaris

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