Harness Your Quan! Zeku General Discussion Thread

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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    HBninja wrote: »
    interesting... just to add, not sure if it helps, but CH cr.lp, st.mp xx M koku is a pretty nice little counter hit combo and it oki's into the same combo when you dash up against a normal quickrise 3f.

    might add another dimension to your cr.lp x2, st.lp xx L koku strat

    Yeah man, that combo is good shit! I use it a lot, or at least try to. My opponents though are just getting hit by cr.lp x2 (blocked) microdelay st.lp xx lk koku. Might as well be a 4 hit combo with how much it works against certain people. I’m lovin it. Still tossing in cr.lp>throw and cr.lp>frame trap and cr.lp> shimmy as well to keep shit fresh... using the bigger combos for punishes/frame traps and things like that.

    Ok so some more awesomeness about the 3 hit jab string:

    If you already have v trigger popped you can do the jab string and end in idaten st.mp,st.mk,st.hp,st.hk xx hp+hk for around 250 damage off of a 3 jab string confirm. End in super for 418 damage which is nothing to scoff at.
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  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    edited December 2017
    Do you guys havd an explanation why zeku's vskill used in combos doesn't grant the right amount of Vgauge ? Is that a bug ? Personally, I think it is because other characters don't have this issue (vega, necalli).
    Edit : okay no, I tested with claw and there is like a Vgain scaling too
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 943
    Ed's vskill gain scales as well
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    Ok, so some theory about how to realistically use Zekus ex demonflip as an actual mixup:


    St.hp xx ex demonflip hold forward P. This crosses up.
    St.hp xx ex demonflip hold forward, press back and K at last second. This DOESNT cross up.

    The reason why this works is because ex demonflip won’t go passed the opponent more than a certain spacing... it basically won’t go past the opponent more than a character length... so hold forward p barely crosses up no matter how long you hold forward and no matter if you did the ex demonflip from point blank or from kinda far. This means that you can hold forward and then at the last second press back and k and the K won’t crossup. This is a great mixup if the opponent decides to crouch your demonflip.

    However this mixup loses its strength if the opponent holds backwards or forwards... and that’s when your ex demonflip throw comes in to hit them while they are walking and blocking high.


    Nothing super powerful, but something to know about and setup as the set goes on.

    Bonus run shit:

    Zeku run is real, but it’s gimmicky real like Laura v skill dash and ken run v skill.

    First a non gimmicky setup:

    St.mp,st.hp TC xx ex qcf PP, st.hp xx run stop (+1 against the flip out, +3 if you use ex run stop instead)
    You get a real throw/strike mixup off the ex version and you get a free cr.lp off the non ex version)

    Gimmicky shit:

    Cr.mp xx runstop
    Cr.mp xx qcf mp if you think the opponent will mash jab. The qcf MP will hit the opponents 3 or 4 frame jab
    Cr.mp xx stance change (use this as a way to transition “safely” by not moving forward when you cancel the cr.mp)

    Based on this your opponent won’t know what option to take to defend because they won’t know your cancel. The safest thing is to use the cr,mp stance transition, then when you see your opponent reading it and trying to press ranged buttons to hit it (jabs wiff from range) then you can start to cancel into qcf MP or runstop... opponent and spacing dependent of course.

    -edit

    Yep, been using this shit. It’s bomb. 50/50 till they start to walk, then command grab em. Zeku gets mad damage off of this as well.

    I don’t think it’s super abuseable at all... but it’s like Ibukis crossup command dash... works basically the same except you get a jumpin combo and have to use ex meter... but the flip side is the left/right hits at basically the same exact time so if they stay on the ground they have to guess. Funny shit is if they try to jump out, you can kick them and then juggle them...LOL

    Post edited by Dime on
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  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    Yo Dime, I had success with the flip mix up at first. Then, my opponent (Juri) started to react to it with st.lp. This simple button stopped everything quite effectively. It seems that even if Zeku is behind, his hurtbox (being sooo big) is still in the front too. I'll run some tests this week-end with all the characters. Oh, and I found an option : hit the kick earlier. But as you know, the earlier you use the kick, the less advantage you get. But if you counter hit them, you can hit check with 2 x jabs and confirm into light teki.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    Sanjo wrote: »
    Yo Dime, I had success with the flip mix up at first. Then, my opponent (Juri) started to react to it with st.lp. This simple button stopped everything quite effectively. It seems that even if Zeku is behind, his hurtbox (being sooo big) is still in the front too. I'll run some tests this week-end with all the characters. Oh, and I found an option : hit the kick earlier. But as you know, the earlier you use the kick, the less advantage you get. But if you counter hit them, you can hit check with 2 x jabs and confirm into light teki.

    Yeah, you gotta mix it up against those AA players my man... make sure that it isn’t easy for them to react:


    1. Vary your cancel buttons (Cr.lp,st.lp,st.mp,st.hp,cr.hp)
    2. Vary what you cancel into (h flip to go far, m flip to stay out of range of the st.lp if they stood still, stance change, hk/mk koku if they are using delayed button presses...use sparingly and from range of course...
    3. Use K earlier (you already said this) :)
    4. Use staggers and delays to get them thinking about something else (st.lp walk forward a microstep st.mp etc etc)
    5. Tick throw them if you think they are concentrating on the AA
    6. Dash at them since they are looking for the AA
    7. Don’t cancel into it at all... do it raw from range after a pokestring.


    Etc etc

    You got lots of options to make them think. This mixup is nowhere near good enough to just autopilot, like any gap if you abuse it the opponent will start to counter you pretty easily :)

    And of course there are going to be characters that this probably won’t work on very well at all... gief clothesline, cammy BMP, Guile flashkick etc.

    I think when all is said and done it’s going to more or less about as powerful as Ibukis command dash mixup. Not abuseable, but badass when setup.

    It depends on how good the alternative options that are found are... like canceling into stance change is very good because now you get a good stagger character with a variety of confirms and CH confirms from a decent distance and a decent runstop from st.hp xx ex run, or lights into ex run.
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  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 943
    Random thoughts on his vt2.
    - it will probably have some invincibility frames like his vt1
    - It seems like you can juggle the opponent when he's falling back. I bet you can at least connect a super, it would be stupid otherwise.
    - the knockdown it gives you seems to be extremely positive
    - since you can cancel your specials into it, can you make his teki, slide, overhead etc safe? Can you continue the combo if you cancel the first hit of the run overhead? Can you get a better knockdown if you cancel his palm?
    - a jumping heavy, cr hp xx mk koku xx vt, hk koku, hk teki should be like 370 damage meterless (if you can juggle)
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    So, wandering even further into the mysterious world of mister zeku... this fucker has different frame advantages for all his different knockdowns from teki xx koku... as an example, if you lk teki you can only lk or ex koku juggle.

    But if you get a better starter you can mk teki launch and that gives you the bonus option of picking between lk koku or mk koku. Mk koku gives the better damage, but lk koku gives the stronger meaty.

    So like if you mk teki launch, and then lk koku juggle you are +7 after a dash up and can st.mk to beat 3 framers for a much better starter. If you end in the more damaging mk koku juggle then you are left at only +2 after the dash and can only get a CH jab starter for combos which is much weaker.

    Zeku has 3 different strengths of teki and 3 different strengths of koku and depending on your teki and koku you get varying advantages of more and less depending on how much damage you sacrifice. You sacrifice more damage you get a better meaty etc etc.


    Jesus this character...
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  • PerthoPertho Capt of Team #Hellspawn Joined: Posts: 22,922 mod
    So...does Zeku just eat it to chun?

    She murders him on the ground.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Pertho wrote: »
    So...does Zeku just eat it to chun?

    She murders him on the ground.

    I haven’t played against her, but I did imagine the fight in my head once... didn’t go well for zeku!
    Might be better to fight her with young zeku.
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  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 943
    I think so too. With young form you can catch her limbs with your buffers, and she has a floaty jump which is easier to anti air or avoid with slide
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Yeah, I think too footsie-heavy characters like Chun or Karin are really a pain in the ass, atm in able to fight back with Yung Zeku buffering like a madman. Make them panic isn't easy, only Yung Z can give them problems.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Jesus Christ man, zeku might be to complicated for me. Finding shit no one has talked about. Literally hundreds of options for zeku on his opponents wakeup.

    Here’s one of like 20 that I’ve made up so far:

    St.mk,st.mp xx ex teki>stance change to YZ>dash> cr.mp (hits 3 frame jabs on quickrise) use cr.hp to cover both knockdowns. You can cr.mp CH,cr.mp xx run slide, st.hk and hit 3 frame quickrise and link into mp~hp target combo. This series will stun characters.

    And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. I’ve got koku meaties for all strengths of koku. I’ve got ex koku meaty that gives +18 on block and bla bla bla bla hundreds of other things that can be labbed.

    The fuck is up with these complicated ass characters.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    @Pertho

    What do you want to do with this forum?

    Right now I’m thinking of making a thread for Zekus knockdowns specifically. I think that’s the only way to really have all this knowledge at our own hands easily. I basically forget my setups nearly as soon as I make them up because their are so many options.

    The problem I would have with a thread like that would be formatting the structure. I could go simple with do this off of this but some knockdowns and follow ups are combo specific because of spacing. Like cr.lpx2,st.lp xx like Koku leaves Zeku much further away on quick rise versus something like point blank st.lp xx lk Koku.

    Anywho, don’t know when exactly I’m going to do it but I will start to catalogue all this stuff soon, if only because I need the info myself.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Updated the oki guide. It now has all teki and koku enders for quick rise. There’s already some really good shit in there so take a look.

    From now, my next project is to figure out and catalogue Zekus options versus back rise and frame kills he can use against no rise. After that I will be looking to include CH cr.hp and st.hp xx hk Koku and it’s various enders which will be tough because there is no frame data for that specific ender so it will have to be based upon trial and error.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    So should we be using ex koku as a poke more in neutral?

    Good range
    17 frame startup
    Knocks down on hit
    Pre emptive wiff punish
    Double dash KD gives oki
    Beats fireballs once extended
    Plus on block to setup for more neutral


    It’s kinda expensive for a poke that doesn’t really move Zeku forward, but on hit it’s probably more than worth it.
    Could maybe be likened to an ex tackle. Not something you want to abuse but good when used intelligently.
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  • PerthoPertho Capt of Team #Hellspawn Joined: Posts: 22,922 mod
    I don't use EX koku enough in the neutral. I'm so stingy with meter; this game feels like you always wanna have a bar on deck in case of emergencies.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    Pertho wrote: »
    I don't use EX koku enough in the neutral. I'm so stingy with meter; this game feels like you always wanna have a bar on deck in case of emergencies.

    Well, you might want to, but after further looking at the move, maybe not. At max range where on,y the projectile hits, Zeku is negative after a double dash... so no juice. He only gets the juicy double dash plus frame oki if he hits the koku from closish range.

    Anywho, from what I’ve gathered so far from the oki thread is his most important knockdowns are mk koku and ex teki> Lk koku.

    Both confirms into them do good damage and he has options versus back rise in them and he has a meter less and metered option. The ex teki route gives him a st.mk meaty so it’s high damage confirm and high damage okie afterwards. A simple st.mk,st.mp xx ex teki, lk koku> dash CH st.mk,st.hp xx mk teki, mk koku does 569 damage and 895 stun which is 5 stun away from stunning Karin.

    -edit
    Do cr.hp xx hk teki>hk koku and the series does 935 stun so it stuns Karin outright in literally one mixup.

    Nvm... Karin’s stun is 950 and it just looked like it would stun.

    Still awesome though.

    -edit 2

    That entire high damage series leaves the opponent at negative enough that a dash up st.mk will meaty against 3 frame jabs and will do 1055 stun. If you started with full meter then the next stun combo into super will kill.

    Probably a strong series to remember.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    Lol... don’t know what’s going on with my stupid training mode, but now that series is stunning Karin in 2 combos. She literally dies to the post stun combo with a super tacked on. Does like 616 damage....

    Nvm, ok I get it. I have CH on now. CH actually does more stun than normal hit.

    Lol, you guys should try it. Funny to see a character die in one mixup.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    @Pertho

    Since you like the youngster so much you might want to try this reset out:

    Cr.mp,st.mp>st.hp xx ex palm,st.hp xx run stop. This leaves you at +1 at point blank and it’s a flip out so the opponent can’t choose their wake up option. This leaves you with a cr.lp/throw mixup.

    If it’s a CH cr.lp.. it links into st.mp target combo xx m hozanto, m Palm

    And the entire series does 915 stun.

    If you are willing to spend another meter (and you should) you can combo into ex palm, H hozanto, m palm for 524 stun, or 989 total stun for the series.


    Basically Zeku is a character that can realistically stun characters in 2 combos.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    You guys are making me want to play Zeku while I wait for S3 to roll around, room for a youngster?
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Froztey wrote: »
    room for a youngster?

    Always :)
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Practice series to get old Zekus most important wake ups against quick rise>jab into muscle memory

    St.mk,st.mp xx ex teki xx lk koku, dash
    St.mk,st.mp xx mk koku, dash
    CH cr.lp,st.mp xx ex koku dash x2
    CH cr.lp,st.mp xx mk Koku dash and block (repeat from beginning)

    This is just a training regimen to cycle through the most important options and get them into muscle memory for later use.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    So is ex teki actually negative on block? Because all my testing is bringing it out to +2?
    Nvm, I get it. Block high to block the strike portion then block low and you give yourself more frame advantage as the defender. The faster you block low after the strike, the more advantage you get.

    Very very weird.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    Which gives me another idea:

    since the strike hits on frames 18 and 19, if we can meaty with ex teki on a knockdown that is +20 or more, we bypass the strike frames and can get our juicy goodness off.

    And, yes that works.

    So it adds more punch to the meaty that @los figured out. Basically v skill in the corner, then lk teki to cover both wake ups, but lose to mashed low moves. However to beat mashed low moves, use ex teki to cover both wake ups and still stay plus on block. So a pretty decent metered way to gain access to pressure on block.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited December 2017
    Just writing this down so I don’t forget.

    KD>Meaty ex Koku>idaten>cr.lp for pressure against quick and back rise at midscreen. With Zekus monstrous stun output this could be a good guaranteed way to get pressure at mid screen without having to deal with back and quick rise.

    Need to test this when I get a chance.

    -edit

    Nope, doesn’t work, or I just don’t have the skill to do it.
    Post edited by Dime on
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    Is DP AA just reset to neutral?
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Froztey wrote: »
    Is DP AA just reset to neutral?

    Generally, yes. Especially if they backrise you won’t be getting any pressure off on them.

    The grounded frames are +19, +24 so you do get a free dash up. They will be more as an AA but the distance you knock people back means you don’t get any pressure.

    Best to hope for is an ex or hk Koku to get some chip, depending on how close they are to the corner.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    His cr.hp CC OS is very strange, not gonna lie.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Froztey wrote: »
    His cr.hp CC OS is very strange, not gonna lie.

    Yeah I find it hard to to time the cancel if that’s what you are referring to... but then again I haven’t ground out the timing.

    However, I have heard from automattock that the very last active frame of cr.hp isn’t cancelable, so take that into consideration as well. Also look at automattocks tech stuff. Since you seem interested in higher level execution stuff you might like his st.hp os.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    Dime wrote: »
    Froztey wrote: »
    His cr.hp CC OS is very strange, not gonna lie.

    Yeah I find it hard to to time the cancel if that’s what you are referring to... but then again I haven’t ground out the timing.

    However, I have heard from automattock that the very last active frame of cr.hp isn’t cancelable, so take that into consideration as well. Also look at automattocks tech stuff. Since you seem interested in higher level execution stuff you might like his st.hp os.

    AH! BINGO! I knew something was going on with the game, I though I was bad for a sec!

    I was sure I had the timing down but it just wasn't working, thanks granddad!
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  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    I'm very curious about Zeku changes in AE, mostly because some of his stuff seems over complicated if compared with others characters. I mean, he's definitely a good one, but I don't get why he deserved some hard hitconfirms or pushbacks. Like Sako said, maybe Capcom makes Zeku a bit too tamed in certain areas, can't wait to see how they've rebalanced this character.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    I haven’t really thought about zeku buffs tbh... he feels like he has everything but some of it is slightly underpowered.


    The only thing I’ve really been searching/hoping for is better on block pressure and a high priority aerial get in with his young form.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    edited January 1
    I've only been using him a short while but this would be my personal wishlist, it's basically all to do with his normals and nothing more.

    Old adjustments -

    Reduce old cr.hp pushback on hit to allow st.lk link, fantastic meaty tool but gives nothing on normal hit - counterintuitive

    Make 4th active frame of cr.hp cancellable, bit weird that it isn't, I use cr.hp a decent amount at tip range in the neutral to CC fish and if it lands on 4th frame I don't get anything, it's another consistency problem he's faced with.

    Reduce old st.mp pushback on block/hit very slightly to bring consistency to entirety of roster in hit/blockstrings across roster - Chun-Li and possibly others make both combos and blockstrings whiff

    Reduce old Zeku st.mk to 6f, minor reduction to pushback on block/hit(see above) improve overall blockstring game allow 4f traps into teki BnB

    Young adjustments -

    Reduce st.mp pushback significantly, opens up stagger game and confirm options when pressuring, consistency issues with counter-hit combos and standard combos

    Increase st.mp x st.hp TC cancel frames by maybe 2f/3f? Opens up confirm options in pressure game, rewards skillful play

    Possibly extend LP.Hozanto hitbox slightly backwards so less crossunders happen when used as an AA, this is a consistent issue I'm finding with LP.Hozanto atm

    That's all I'd ask for on old Zeku, I think it's just his normals that have issues to be completely honest, they lack a little bit of consistency and they all have a bit too much pushback and his blockstrings are a bit weak because of how slow st.mk is, his most threatening mid for damage potential.

    I heard he has fundamentally broken issues with his normals in how the frame data is handled with them but idk the specifics, so if that's a thing - that too.
    Post edited by Froztey on
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited January 1
    For me personally:

    Young Zeku: cr.mp +2 on block.
    St.hp xx run stop -2 on block.
    Target combo having more leniency would be a very good thing that he could definitely use.


    I don’t feel like st.mp having less pushback would be good for the game. It would have to be nerfed somehow for it to get the kinds of stats it has (+3 on block, 5 frame startup, followed up by a 6 frame ranged plus on block medium, on hit) his pressure would be incredible if that happened. He’d have like necalli st.mk stagger pressure but on steroids.

    Old zeku:
    Slightly faster walkspeed
    Koku startups all buffed with 2 less frames of startup. Koku just in general seems like it could use a buff of some sort.
    Agreed that his st.mp could use a bit less pushback.

    Both:

    Ex stance switch that is 5 frames faster than his current stance switch, also moves forward a slight bit.
    Super bonus: moves forward a bit and hits and is plus 2 from young to old and plus 1 from old to young.


    This won’t happen of course but it isn’t unheard of for characters to get new moves in this game (ibuki ex store)
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    edited January 1
    isn't the way to get -2 run/stop in this game to use EX run? I doubt they'd give him a -2 run/stop, but it's not that bad considering he has no EX reversal to force a 50/50 with, if you react you take your turn back - simples. Basically the same as most dashes tbh.

    st.mp is pretty bad and ruins his pressure though, standard path seems to be st.lk - st.mp but you get pushed out of threat range just by pressing it once. The +3 means nothing if you can't use that advantage, see Akuma for reference. His cr.mp wouldn't be good at all if it had pushback.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Froztey wrote: »
    isn't the way to get -2 run/stop in this game to use EX run? I doubt they'd give him a -2 run/stop, but it's not that bad considering he has no EX reversal to force a 50/50 with, if you react you take your turn back - simples. Basically the same as most dashes tbh.

    st.mp is pretty bad and ruins his pressure though, standard path seems to be st.lk - st.mp but you get pushed out of threat range just by pressing it once. The +3 means nothing if you can't use that advantage, see Akuma for reference. His cr.mp wouldn't be good at all if it had pushback.
    Im trying to figure out how to respond to this without a wall of text. I guess I’ll leave out explanations and just say things and hopefully they make sense without having to explain them.

    YZ has no standard path (neither does OZ really)
    The best overall path for YZ is cr.mp,cr.lp xx L hozanto> stuff. does ok damage and beats 3 framers and confirms while not having huge pushout, to make the most of this string you have to confirm cr.mp into st.mp on hit, and cr.mp into cr.lp on block. Then autopilot another cr.mp after the cr.lp in case it CH and confirm into run slide.
    St.mp, cr.mp is the standard medium medium. The basic mixup is do both hits on autopilot to train for no buttons, or to confirm the first block and use stagger pressure once the opponent is trained.
    The big problem here is that there seems to be not much followup if the cr.mp connects. The only thing that I know that reaches is link into super.

    YZ
    St.lk,st.mp is a good string but should really only be used in situations where the st.lk has a decent chance of CH. so basically off of stagger pressure or when the opponent is waking up, or on defense. As a simple poke starter it isn’t great because it has pushback and doesnt combo on normal hit. Better is probably st.lkx2... kinda like how punk uses karins st.lk against his opponents wakeup.

    Still put in explanations :(
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,906 mod
    I use st.lk > st.mp, you can set up a tick via st.lk, and if the st.lk CHs you get a st.mp link that's an easy confirm into full TC, better overall payoff for the route and if it's meaty that st.lk is going to counter-hit if it's gonna hit at all tbh.

    When it comes to staggering strings st.lk seems #1 as well, low pushback low blockstun, keeps the pace fast.

    cr.lp > cr.mp is alright, but the payoff is low for a character with as much damage output as Y.Zeku, you're picking up crumbs with just a slide confirm or a LP.Hozanto. You want those beefy EX.Palm combos for nutty corner carry and good follow-ups.

    I guess everyones blockstring options differ, that's the fun of it.

    Also, does O.Zeku f.throw in the corner set-up a meaty cr.hp? As you can tell I'm a by-eye kinda guy and don't use data apps much.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Froztey wrote: »
    I use st.lk > st.mp, you can set up a tick via st.lk, and if the st.lk CHs you get a st.mp link that's an easy confirm into full TC, better overall payoff for the route and if it's meaty that st.lk is going to counter-hit if it's gonna hit at all tbh.

    When it comes to staggering strings st.lk seems #1 as well, low pushback low blockstun, keeps the pace fast.

    cr.lp > cr.mp is alright, but the payoff is low for a character with as much damage output as Y.Zeku, you're picking up crumbs with just a slide confirm or a LP.Hozanto. You want those beefy EX.Palm combos for nutty corner carry and good follow-ups.

    I guess everyones blockstring options differ, that's the fun of it.

    Also, does O.Zeku f.throw in the corner set-up a meaty cr.hp? As you can tell I'm a by-eye kinda guy and don't use data apps much.

    Yeah I know about all those options and I do use them because as I said, zeku doesnt have a standard option, really.

    But something I want to point out is that always going for optimal damage makes you predictable. Well at least more predictable.

    But there are more ways to optimise rather than just in combo damage and confirms. There is also optimal pressure strings, ie moves that don’t have huge pushback nor have huge gaps.

    The thing in this game is that you very very very rarely get to have both optimal damage routes that synchronise with optimal pressure routes.

    So you have to pick between either or, or try to maintain a balance of both. The balanced version is the hardest because it means you have the most options to juggle and therefor be fluent with.


    The optimal damage route is great for damage but you will end up getting blocked a lot and won’t have a higher hit to block ratio unless you are clearly better than your opponent and seeing the upclose position nearly at will.

    Optimal pressure routes means you will be getting in a bit more and having more chances on block, but you will be doing lower damage overall.

    There is no “right or wrong” here in a theory perspective. It’s just a choice of styles. But the style a lot of players opt for is the optimal damage. It means they need to get in less (or more depending on how you view it ) and it means that if they are better than their opponent then they will be getting in anyways so it’s best to go for optimal damage. The optimal pressure stuff starts to come in when you know your opponent is as good as or better than you are. You will need more chances against them.


    Easy every character example is jumpin crossup. Do you land into a jab and take a simple jab jab xx special confirm, or do you land into a pushout medium into bigger damage?


    I answer that via the following questions:

    Can I hit confirm this jumpin?
    Can I get in easily against this character or person?
    Is this crossup ambiguous with timing or spacing or relatively obvious?


    I tend to use pressure/pokestrings in the same way and for me personally I usually choose pressure over damage.
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  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,625
    Ex palm combos are ass. You gotta confirm counterhits with ex qcb PP (young zeku).
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