Harness Your Quan! Zeku General Discussion Thread

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  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,625
    Now that young Zeku s.lp was nerfed as antiair, what are you guys using for AA beside hozanto L?
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,551
    edited January 18
    Zeku has to hold a big L in AE with all those insane VT2s thrown in

    multiple new specials per activation, hit-parries, unblockables.. and we get a 1 use DP for a character already having a DP

    you can't even cancel f+HP overhead with it at least..
    hello friends, my name is Drago Umeharevich from CrossCounter Balkans
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Now that young Zeku s.lp was nerfed as antiair, what are you guys using for AA beside hozanto L?

    Far distance: st.HK
    Mid close distance: lp Hozanto
    Crossups: st.lp should work, but I've never used that option, walk under st.mp works fine for me.
  • PerthoPertho Capt of Team #Hellspawn Joined: Posts: 22,922 mod
    What's the start up on v-trigger 2? Maybe he can combo into it from counterhit overhead...

    Oh fuck it, its pointless. his second v-trigger is probably the worst of all of them.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    VT2 still has uses because it’s an invincible AA for YZ... a 230 damage AA for OZ and it gets him out of the corner, puts his opponent IN the corner.

    At least it’s probably the go to trigger versus gief.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    My AAs are :
    OZ : dp, cr.hp into flip or m.teki (far), st.mp into flip or m.teki (close) PS : If only they buffed vskill to work as an AA...
    YZ : cr.hp (far), l.hozanto (spacing dependant), st.mk (close), st.lp into dash meaty st.lk - st.mp confirm st.hp (cross-ups; doesn't need CH). In the corner, I also like to run stop under a jump to get out.
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    Oh, I forgot. If my opponent is almost dead and that I have CA and VT1, I like to yell "ZA WORUDO" while I stop time with VT1 and activate CA !
  • PerthoPertho Capt of Team #Hellspawn Joined: Posts: 22,922 mod
    Even with gief i think I'd rather have v-trigger one so I have the option to rushdown. Right now it feels like you're getting smacked around to build an extra bar of meter.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited January 19
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.


    OZ dp k xx vt2 does 230 and most importantly, corners him with YZ in his face, cornered which is probably the worst thing ever for gief.

    VT1 if it gets blocked you can look forward to SPD/frame trap/blocked reversal hell that could lose you the entire matchup. So a get out of the corner trigger if he jumps at you, or a get vortexed trigger if you have your Idaten blocked...

    Use whatever you feel more comfortable with.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.


    OZ dp k xx vt2 does 230 and most importantly, corners him with YZ in his face, cornered which is probably the worst thing ever for gief.

    VT1 if it gets blocked you can look forward to SPD/frame trap/blocked reversal hell that could lose you the entire matchup. So a get out of the corner trigger if he jumps at you, or a get vortexed trigger if you have your Idaten blocked...

    Use whatever you feel more comfortable with.

    You can look forward to everything you said even with VT2, cornered or not Gief has still tools to turn the table. We aren't forced to use slide to activate VT1 and a blocked one is still -2, not good but could have been worse. VT2 can't put Gief in the corner every time, he's dangerous even waking up with YZ in his face, Gief has enough stamina to convince most players to take risks more rather than taking a mixup. More I can keep him far the better, I didn't played against AE Gief yet to judge if we can go more ham on him.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.


    OZ dp k xx vt2 does 230 and most importantly, corners him with YZ in his face, cornered which is probably the worst thing ever for gief.

    VT1 if it gets blocked you can look forward to SPD/frame trap/blocked reversal hell that could lose you the entire matchup. So a get out of the corner trigger if he jumps at you, or a get vortexed trigger if you have your Idaten blocked...

    Use whatever you feel more comfortable with.

    You can look forward to everything you said even with VT2, cornered or not Gief has still tools to turn the table. We aren't forced to use slide to activate VT1 and a blocked one is still -2, not good but could have been worse. VT2 can't put Gief in the corner every time, he's dangerous even waking up with YZ in his face, Gief has enough stamina to convince most players to take risks more rather than taking a mixup. More I can keep him far the better, I didn't played against AE Gief yet to judge if we can go more ham on him.
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.


    OZ dp k xx vt2 does 230 and most importantly, corners him with YZ in his face, cornered which is probably the worst thing ever for gief.

    VT1 if it gets blocked you can look forward to SPD/frame trap/blocked reversal hell that could lose you the entire matchup. So a get out of the corner trigger if he jumps at you, or a get vortexed trigger if you have your Idaten blocked...

    Use whatever you feel more comfortable with.

    You can look forward to everything you said even with VT2, cornered or not Gief has still tools to turn the table. We aren't forced to use slide to activate VT1 and a blocked one is still -2, not good but could have been worse. VT2 can't put Gief in the corner every time, he's dangerous even waking up with YZ in his face, Gief has enough stamina to convince most players to take risks more rather than taking a mixup. More I can keep him far the better, I didn't played against AE Gief yet to judge if we can go more ham on him.

    I personally don’t fear gief on KD. You should be running a train on him at that point as that’s his major weakness. Only time I’m hesitant on his KD is when he has super at which point I like to be very prodigious with standing in his face and then jumping backwards at the last second. If he wiffs super you get a punish and if he didn’t, all that happens is neutral gets reset. But if he doesn’t have super... you’re meaties are free against him because he has no strike invincible moves.

    So cornering him is a good thing for my style.

    But anywho I’m putting zeku on hold for Sakura for now so happy hunting :)
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044


    Interesting.
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.


    OZ dp k xx vt2 does 230 and most importantly, corners him with YZ in his face, cornered which is probably the worst thing ever for gief.

    VT1 if it gets blocked you can look forward to SPD/frame trap/blocked reversal hell that could lose you the entire matchup. So a get out of the corner trigger if he jumps at you, or a get vortexed trigger if you have your Idaten blocked...

    Use whatever you feel more comfortable with.

    You can look forward to everything you said even with VT2, cornered or not Gief has still tools to turn the table. We aren't forced to use slide to activate VT1 and a blocked one is still -2, not good but could have been worse. VT2 can't put Gief in the corner every time, he's dangerous even waking up with YZ in his face, Gief has enough stamina to convince most players to take risks more rather than taking a mixup. More I can keep him far the better, I didn't played against AE Gief yet to judge if we can go more ham on him.
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dunno about using VT2 against Gief j.mk, since he's gonna jump again once he has another chance to do so. Atm using OZ against him works for me, cr.HP works good against jump happy Giefs.


    OZ dp k xx vt2 does 230 and most importantly, corners him with YZ in his face, cornered which is probably the worst thing ever for gief.

    VT1 if it gets blocked you can look forward to SPD/frame trap/blocked reversal hell that could lose you the entire matchup. So a get out of the corner trigger if he jumps at you, or a get vortexed trigger if you have your Idaten blocked...

    Use whatever you feel more comfortable with.

    You can look forward to everything you said even with VT2, cornered or not Gief has still tools to turn the table. We aren't forced to use slide to activate VT1 and a blocked one is still -2, not good but could have been worse. VT2 can't put Gief in the corner every time, he's dangerous even waking up with YZ in his face, Gief has enough stamina to convince most players to take risks more rather than taking a mixup. More I can keep him far the better, I didn't played against AE Gief yet to judge if we can go more ham on him.


    But anywho I’m putting zeku on hold for Sakura for now so happy hunting :)

    You're taking the Froztey way of jumping from a character to another? :lol:
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,551
    how do you feel about all these stance switch meaty setups?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/7rqg60/zeku_stance_switch_meaty_setups/
    hello friends, my name is Drago Umeharevich from CrossCounter Balkans
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,625
    Aquashark wrote: »
    how do you feel about all these stance switch meaty setups?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/7rqg60/zeku_stance_switch_meaty_setups/

    The ex bushin sho ones are not viable at all...
    The ex hozanto side shift and LP hozanto are good
    Everything that sacrifices more than 15% dmg of a combo is not good looking specially since you remain plus regardless of the enders (except for the yz air grab of course)
    He didnt mention the qcb LK ones with old zeku. You can ex that special and be stupidly plus on block while also covering characters waking up with crouch buttons, if you are worried about people mashing on wakeup

    About the AA topic. Thanks for the input. I add one more, cr.lp agaisnt crossup kicks work well from my experience
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Someone noticed a better efficiency of LP Hozanto AA? Lately I can hit even opponents who are slightly behind YZ.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 35
    VT2 has been a really inconsistent AA in testing.

    If they jump in from too close, you'll whiff. If you hit them with Ban too high up, it'll whiff. Basically, if you don't wait long enough on there jump, this things not working.

    Most consistent uses for it as an AA I've noticed is either:

    Old: If you managed to catch them with L.Teki x M.Koku. Jakura kick into Ban can work but probably not consistently.

    Young: It gives neutral J.mp an actual followup from most ranges.

  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,625
    It plain sucks. No potential to be uncovered at all. Capcom better give us buffs in 3.5 update
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    You'll have to notice YZ VT2 is slightly longer than the OZ version. Even with that VT2 don't cover YZ weak spot, right over his head.

    VTC with VT2 does more damage than doing the same with VT1, but the latter could combo into CA. My problem with VT2 is the setups right after, the KD leaves the opponent free to wake up like he wants to,so you need to cover every wakeup option. Even then a well made autocorrect dp move could straight up fuck everything we do not called blocking. With the VTC nerf combined with the general damage scaling using VT2 as a combo ender is silly. The best uses I've found are only AA or whiff punish, but nothing really crazy.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 35
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    VTC with VT2 does more damage than doing the same with VT1, but the latter could combo into CA.

    It really bothers me that we can't combo CA once you land. You're given so much time when you land, whats the big deal not letting him do it.

    Legit question to everyone, been thinking about it recently, why are people not adding transform into blockstrings/pokes? From the few Zeku players I've seen, never seen anyone do this.

    Everyone knows Old St.Hp into transform because it leaves you +1, but we don't do it on other normals cause your minus. But, honestly, why do we care?

    Compare it to Ken or Laura Vskill cancels. Or even Ibuki Command dash. These are all minus to various degrees but people still get away with it because its still hard to react to when mixed into actual blockstrings or good normals. Zeku is no more minus on a normal into transform than a Ken/laura normal into vskill.

    This could also play off the problem Zeku has with opening people up. Establish the fact you're willing to transform on them and catch them pressing buttons. Adding this on top of the Run stop, high, lows that young gets, or normal into Jakura for old.

    Lets use Old St.Hp x transform, Young St. Hp x Transform, Old St.lk x L.koku as an example.

    They respect that Old St.Hp x transform is plus or else they get hit by cr.lp x hozanto, so you get away with a slower button like st.hp. Young has St.Hp x M.Bushin sho as a true blockstring, H. Bushin Sho can catch certain lights whiffing, and M.Hozanto will beat 4 frames and trade with 3 frames (St.Hp x Run slide/overhead could also be a thing if you're willing). Now that we've conditioned them that both steps have frame traps to them lets add transform to Young St.Hp. This leaves you at -6 (1 better than Lauras st.mp x vskill forward for example). Counter hit St.lk will combo into Koku. St.lk x koku is also a frame trap.

    Obviously cant just do it all the time but this is starting to look like something I should add to my game
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    edited January 24
    You are free to play as you like. That's one of Zeku's strengh : variety. Personnaly, when I'm in close range, I don't bother switching too much. I would only switch into young zeku because he is better at that range (st.hp x change). I will only get into old zeku if I get an opening and finish with vskill, which I tend do do a lot (zeku's ability to build v is very good). Then I will meaty with cr.hp (4 active frames, CC, reactable, +2) if opponent is in the corner (which is very often the case) or go for corner pressure with grab, cr.lp x grab (os the mk dp), cr.lp - cr.hp (anti late tech), cr.lp - shimmy, etc... mixing it up. Then I'll find a way to switch into young again.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    VTC with VT2 does more damage than doing the same with VT1, but the latter could combo into CA.

    It really bothers me that we can't combo CA once you land. You're given so much time when you land, whats the big deal not letting him do it.

    Legit question to everyone, been thinking about it recently, why are people not adding transform into blockstrings/pokes? From the few Zeku players I've seen, never seen anyone do this.

    Everyone knows Old St.Hp into transform because it leaves you +1, but we don't do it on other normals cause your minus. But, honestly, why do we care?

    Compare it to Ken or Laura Vskill cancels. Or even Ibuki Command dash. These are all minus to various degrees but people still get away with it because its still hard to react to when mixed into actual blockstrings or good normals. Zeku is no more minus on a normal into transform than a Ken/laura normal into vskill.

    This could also play off the problem Zeku has with opening people up. Establish the fact you're willing to transform on them and catch them pressing buttons. Adding this on top of the Run stop, high, lows that young gets, or normal into Jakura for old.

    Lets use Old St.Hp x transform, Young St. Hp x Transform, Old St.lk x L.koku as an example.

    They respect that Old St.Hp x transform is plus or else they get hit by cr.lp x hozanto, so you get away with a slower button like st.hp. Young has St.Hp x M.Bushin sho as a true blockstring, H. Bushin Sho can catch certain lights whiffing, and M.Hozanto will beat 4 frames and trade with 3 frames (St.Hp x Run slide/overhead could also be a thing if you're willing). Now that we've conditioned them that both steps have frame traps to them lets add transform to Young St.Hp. This leaves you at -6 (1 better than Lauras st.mp x vskill forward for example). Counter hit St.lk will combo into Koku. St.lk x koku is also a frame trap.

    Obviously cant just do it all the time but this is starting to look like something I should add to my game

    You are perfectly correct in this assessment. Its also something i brought up awhile back in this thread as well. Im picking zeku back up because hes fun as shit and im subbing him and sakura and urien.


    Theres alot of reasons why negative stance cancels can be a boon to your game as well as a detriment... ill give one boon:


    If the opponent expects a transform.... jabbing you out wont do any good because you are to far away. So the opponent is going to want to do medium interrupts which means they will be easier to interrupt themselves.

    Only problems with switching i have is if they are done to close and the generall DD motion as well i dont really like.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    edited January 24
    You guys probably know that you can also hold down then tap down PP to transform. Makes it unpredictable.
    Post edited by Sanjo on
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Sanjo wrote: »
    You guys probably knows that you can also hold down then tap down PP to transform. Makes it unpredictable.
    LOL... nope I didn’t know that. Wow this is the weirdest motion ever.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 35
    edited January 24
    More thoughts on transform cancels.

    Would do them more with old than young

    As Young you already have better walk/ dash speed along with command run too keep yourself on top of your opp. Bnb leads into easy oki and an easy reset in Ex Bushin sho. You also have cr.Hk or Run slide if they try to walk away from you.

    St.Hp would probably be the best button for young? Since it can be spaced out pretty far and still get something like: Young St.Hp x Transform, St.Lk x Koku OR Cr.Mk x VT

    Better advantage on olds normals makes it easier for opp to want to block. If they start walking back, you can leave them be and start playing with gram, or you're now in young and have Cr. Hk or run slide to get back in there.

    Should compliment Jakura. Jakura is easily telegraphed on its own. Easily blocked/AA'd on its own but, Medium/heavy normal cancel into Jakura can hop over an immediate normal your opponent does out of block. Transform cancel makes your opp want to press buttons.

    So to open them up with Old, Establish basic blockstring, introduce transform cancel to force out buttons, add L/M Jakura for Left/Right and air grab on reaction if they try to walk away.

    Zeku is fun.
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,625
    I'm away of my ps4 at the moment, but i'm thinking of

    Young zeku corner combo > vskill ender > oz qcb +k ex version > Jakura (any version). Since the ex special leave zeku at obscene block advantage on the late frames, this might be a real near to 50-50 corner setup!
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    edited January 24
    More thoughts on transform cancels.

    Would do them more with old than young

    As Young you already have better walk/ dash speed along with command run too keep yourself on top of your opp. Bnb leads into easy oki and an easy reset in Ex Bushin sho. You also have cr.Hk or Run slide if they try to walk away from you.

    St.Hp would probably be the best button for young? Since it can be spaced out pretty far and still get something like: Young St.Hp x Transform, St.Lk x Koku OR Cr.Mk x VT

    Better advantage on olds normals makes it easier for opp to want to block. If they start walking back, you can leave them be and start playing with gram, or you're now in young and have Cr. Hk or run slide to get back in there.

    Should compliment Jakura. Jakura is easily telegraphed on its own. Easily blocked/AA'd on its own but, Medium/heavy normal cancel into Jakura can hop over an immediate normal your opponent does out of block. Transform cancel makes your opp want to press buttons.

    So to open them up with Old, Establish basic blockstring, introduce transform cancel to force out buttons, add L/M Jakura for Left/Right and air grab on reaction if they try to walk away.

    Zeku is fun.

    There’s a lot of really amazing negative stance cancels you can do. A “higher execution” one that looks cool and is fast and will catch people off guard is young cr.lp,st.lp xx stance,st.lp xx flip.

    There’s a couple of things in there that will make your opponent have to mindset switch really fast which is what makes the flip easier to get off there.

    There’s TONS of blockstrings and stuff that you can do from this.

    The most basic application is pretty autopilot strategy but still really hard to apply:

    1. Old or young, cancelable normal into stance change.
    2. Cancelable normal into run, or palm or flip or ex koku.

    It’s pretty simple. The only limiter is range and how big of a gamble you are willing to chance on your negative frames. The thing is, with both the flip and the run, you get back in and can do it again or go for tick throw of go for stagger or whatever... so you can keep it fresh without abusing it.
    When taken to this kind of conclusion it’s probably next to impossible for the opponent to be able to pick the correct option consistently. It’s bascaly like Fuerte mixups, in theory at the very least.

    Another example sequence you could do is:

    OZ
    Cr.lp microwalk forward, st.mp,st.lk xx stance, YZ cr.mp xx run,st.lk,cr.mp xx stance change,OZ st.lp xx m or h Jakura.


    This is obviously just a theory string. It’s to long to actually be considered “real” but you could definitely get this off in a match. To me, at least slightly, this is how zeku is meant to be played.

    It’s not gimmicks of your opponent doesn’t know where it will come from or when they should press buttons or not. And zeku has ways to punish people for pressing buttons and NOT pressing buttons.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    Dime wrote: »
    Sanjo wrote: »
    You guys probably knows that you can also hold down then tap down PP to transform. Makes it unpredictable.
    LOL... nope I didn’t know that. Wow this is the weirdest motion ever.

    Also, if you want to, you can quickly transform back to back using this technique
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 35
    Tried VT2 abit more and starting to get more use out of it.

    There definitely should be some use as a whiff punish tool with how far it goes horizontally. Thinking of it like that I can see more matchups where i’d try it.

    Characters like Chun li or Birdie whiffing buttons in your face or going through fireballs like guiles boom.

    Also getting fun stuff out of Old CC cr.Hp as an AA.

    I think optimal would be; AA CC cr.hp x m.Teki, ex. Teki, l. Koku x VT2. Think that’s 375 damage.

    Something more stylish

    AA CC cr.hp x ex teki, dashup, m.teki, ex Teki, l. Koku x vt2

  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Tried VT2 abit more and starting to get more use out of it.

    There definitely should be some use as a whiff punish tool with how far it goes horizontally. Thinking of it like that I can see more matchups where i’d try it.

    Characters like Chun li or Birdie whiffing buttons in your face or going through fireballs like guiles boom.

    Also getting fun stuff out of Old CC cr.Hp as an AA.

    I think optimal would be; AA CC cr.hp x m.Teki, ex. Teki, l. Koku x VT2. Think that’s 375 damage.

    Something more stylish

    AA CC cr.hp x ex teki, dashup, m.teki, ex Teki, l. Koku x vt2

    The way to get more CC out of CR.hp is as follows:

    If the opponent expects you to dp their jumpin, they will generally stick out their move later... this is natural for priority, however since they are sticking out their move later that means it’s in active frames later in the jump. That means that if you DIDNT AA with dp, but instead AA with cr.hp, you have a much bigger chance of hitting them with a CC.

    If however they expect you to AA with cr.hp, they will be pressing their button early to try and beat the cr.hp, so their jumpin will be in active frames by the time it makes contact with cr.hp and therefor won’t be crush counterable.

    That’s the secret for those that haven’t yet figured it out. So start out by dping them, then switch to cr.hp to CC their late jumpin.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Tried VT2 abit more and starting to get more use out of it.

    There definitely should be some use as a whiff punish tool with how far it goes horizontally. Thinking of it like that I can see more matchups where i’d try it.

    Characters like Chun li or Birdie whiffing buttons in your face or going through fireballs like guiles boom.

    Also getting fun stuff out of Old CC cr.Hp as an AA.

    I think optimal would be; AA CC cr.hp x m.Teki, ex. Teki, l. Koku x VT2. Think that’s 375 damage.

    Something more stylish

    AA CC cr.hp x ex teki, dashup, m.teki, ex Teki, l. Koku x vt2

    Why doing all of that when you get an easy st.hp xxflip reset?

    Using VT2 as a whiff punishing tool sounds good until the opponent will be able to escape the setup right after. If that happens then they will try to jump at you/ press buttons again since the VT2 isn't there anymore and you can't use V-Reversal for a bit.

    VT2 is pure trash.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 35
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Tried VT2 abit more and starting to get more use out of it.

    There definitely should be some use as a whiff punish tool with how far it goes horizontally. Thinking of it like that I can see more matchups where i’d try it.

    Characters like Chun li or Birdie whiffing buttons in your face or going through fireballs like guiles boom.

    Also getting fun stuff out of Old CC cr.Hp as an AA.

    I think optimal would be; AA CC cr.hp x m.Teki, ex. Teki, l. Koku x VT2. Think that’s 375 damage.

    Something more stylish

    AA CC cr.hp x ex teki, dashup, m.teki, ex Teki, l. Koku x vt2

    Why doing all of that when you get an easy st.hp xxflip reset?

    Using VT2 as a whiff punishing tool sounds good until the opponent will be able to escape the setup right after. If that happens then they will try to jump at you/ press buttons again since the VT2 isn't there anymore and you can't use V-Reversal for a bit.

    VT2 is pure trash.

    Because I can go for damage and kill them rather than assume they can't block or AA me? You can also transform throw out a normal into run stop and left/right them that way too.

    Those problems with VT2 are the same for VT1. Theres no guaranteed setup in VT1, if they escape the knockdown there going back to whatever it is there doing. Then you still gotta worry about confirming into the dash chain combo or you basically wasted a vtrigger.

    I mean, VT1 is worse now with the scaling change. VT cancels do roughly the same or even less than not vt canceling at all.

    look at s.mk, s.mp x l.teki l.koku.

    that 240 damage. now try s.mk, s.mp x vtc, st.hp x m.teki m.koku. Thats only 251 damage and doing the vt earlier will give you even less damage. Going straight for dash chain combo is gonna give you the same damage to.

    Find utility where you can or don't play the character because neither Vtrigger is gonna be the best.







  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Tried VT2 abit more and starting to get more use out of it.

    There definitely should be some use as a whiff punish tool with how far it goes horizontally. Thinking of it like that I can see more matchups where i’d try it.

    Characters like Chun li or Birdie whiffing buttons in your face or going through fireballs like guiles boom.

    Also getting fun stuff out of Old CC cr.Hp as an AA.

    I think optimal would be; AA CC cr.hp x m.Teki, ex. Teki, l. Koku x VT2. Think that’s 375 damage.

    Something more stylish

    AA CC cr.hp x ex teki, dashup, m.teki, ex Teki, l. Koku x vt2

    Why doing all of that when you get an easy st.hp xxflip reset?

    Using VT2 as a whiff punishing tool sounds good until the opponent will be able to escape the setup right after. If that happens then they will try to jump at you/ press buttons again since the VT2 isn't there anymore and you can't use V-Reversal for a bit.

    VT2 is pure trash.


    Find utility where you can or don't play the character because neither Vtrigger is gonna be the best.

    In the previous page I've described the ins and outs of VT2 after hours of testing, have you read what I wrote?

    If using VT2 that way works for you,go ahead. But please, don't tell me what to do. Ever.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 35
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »

    In the previous page I've described the ins and outs of VT2 after hours of testing, have you read what I wrote?

    If using VT2 that way works for you,go ahead. But please, don't tell me what to do. Ever.

    I did read it, good stuff.

    I ain't telling you to do anything. All I'm saying is both Zeku vtriggers are situational at best.

    If anyone plans to use the character then they better find something and make it work or they're gonna have a bad time.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »

    In the previous page I've described the ins and outs of VT2 after hours of testing, have you read what I wrote?

    If using VT2 that way works for you,go ahead. But please, don't tell me what to do. Ever.

    I did read it, good stuff.

    I ain't telling you to do anything. All I'm saying is both Zeku vtriggers are situational at best.

    If anyone plans to use the character then they better find something and make it work or they're gonna have a bad time.

    That's what Capcom give it to us. I still don't understand why they decided to give Zeku 2 situational VT's, I bet they were scared to create a character potentially OP. At the same time they give to the others VT's way more comeback oriented with reset abilities.

    Anyway I think working on Zeku will give us a lot back in the future, so atm I'm more oriented in improving with him. With all the complaints and laughs he gets I think Capcom will improve Zeku more than we can imagine. Til then we have some work to do.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    Jibbo (AutoMattock) has changed his tune about vt2. He likes it now. Not that you should be taking all your advice from someone else... but vt2 is far from trash. Best dp in the game and people that complain about YZ not having AA really can’t complain anymore.

    VT1 is better against grounded opponents that want to button you down, vt2 is better against opponents that want to jump in on you and get offense started through the air. If you are using only 1 v trigger, you are doing it wrong.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Best dp in the game? Can't even go through Akuma VT Zanku Fireballs. Close jump ins can make it whiff pretty easily if we misjudged the aerial attack. Would have been more useful if we had at least 2 shots of it, instead after connecting with it better monetize the KD or we waste the benefits of VT2. I've used it against FANG during a ft10 this week and every time I've punished my opponent with it through whiff punishes or jumps all he does right after was sliding away with his EX crossdown special. Maybe even Akuma could leave with teleport, I have to try.

    If trash sounds too much then I can say VT2 isn't enough for a full V meter. I mean, have you'll seen what Abi,Ed, Kolin and Menat gets compared to us? I've only cited the newcomers on purpose, probably only Juri can compete for the worst VT title this season.
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 83
    We could argue which vtrigger is better all day. In the end, it depends on your own playstyle or a specific match up. VT1 suits my gameplay as I control pretty well the air space and want to limit my opponent's backward movement (I have an aggressive gameplay). Plus, I practiced a lot my sweep confirms (if blocked, activate vt1) so that I don't waste my trigger. But I also noticed that vt2 can be useful against dive kick characters (mostly cammy) because it's super easy to aa on reaction even to a surprise dive.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,586
    It goes through akumas air fireball if you time it right, good enough for me. Spacing it correctly is same as anything else.

    So in other news... been finding all kinds of tight gimmicky strings and stance cancels and side switches with zeku. These things are probably why capcom is so worried about him... his gimmicks and the number that he has...is really REALLY strong.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 4,044
    Dime wrote: »
    It goes through akumas air fireball if you time it right, good enough for me. Spacing it correctly is same as anything else.

    Tested VT2 again in Casuals.. The different ranges between OZ and YZ just annoyed me. I don't use VT2 in Old form because I can use dp without problems if there's no lag,YZ needs it more and VT2 just don't cover his weak spot,just over his head. I've also tried to punish Akuma f+hp overhead special and VT2 loses clean. VT2 needs to be used super late against Akuma fireballs and demon flips,but still isn't fully invincible how a one shot VT deserve to be. VT1 is still the best choice, at least for me.
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