How to deal with reality stone spam

DimeDime Wasting timeJoined: Posts: 10,878
Ok, so this post might be kinda big as I explain the concepts on something that is very simple. So I will start this thread outlining the concept in its most simplified form for those that don't wish to read the entire explanation:



(You know the opponent is about to call reality stone surge)

Empty jump towards the surge, pushblock it back at the opponent.

Ok it's really that simple. But because it's so simple people won't think there's any kind of tech here... and tbh... there isn't. This is just basic mvc2/skullgirls knowledge on how to deal with invincible assists. So without further ado, let's break this down as to why it's so important to know and use:


1. But dime, everyone knows to pushblock reality back at the opponent.
2. Yes they do. But most players aren't yet putting the 2 and 2 together that reality pushblocked back at the opponent is only really powerful when done upclose. Done from far or even midrange doesn't really get you anything and usually isn't much of a dissuasion from the opponent spamming the surge.


So, lets go into something else... dealing with invincible assists in mvc2 and skullgirls and how that knowledge can be applied to dealing with reality spam.

The question is, how do we deal with invincible assists? Well there are a couple of options:

1. Outrange the assist and make it wiff, then punish it with your own assist call. This is known as counter calling, or at least a very basic form of counter calling.
2. Jump into the assist and block it In the air then call your own assist to hit the opponents assist... this is also countercalling but the tactic is different.
3. Use movement to get around the assist in someway (usually reserved for getting around non invincible assists like mvc2 sent drones or skullgirls double hornet bomber)

Now of these options... people are already trying to use number 3 against reality with very limited success since reality tracks. People are also using number 1, but that's also mostly useless because reality has about 3/4 screen range. People are also using their own reality to hit the opponent reality... but that just results in a neutral situation at best. And what do we do if we don't have a reality stone ourselves? How do we fight it with other stones? Well you can always use your own projectile to beat it... a good option but one that requires some commitment and also generally requires a tag if you want to try and get something out of it. Using a tag resource to beat a non tagged resource isn't really the fairest of economy's and you will start to see your neutral suffer if this is abused, especially since the reality user can also tag.


So that leaves us at point 2. But the problem here is... you don't have an assist to counter call the reality surge. If you block it then tag or something... you are at massive frame disadvantage because you have to go through all the blockstun then tag... plus the fact that the reality user can simply call another reality after the first one gets blocked... putting you back into the same situation again and again.

But the thing is.... YOU DO HAVE AN ASSIST!

If you reflect the reality back at the opponent, it becomes YOUR reality surge. THATS your assist.

So putting this into play... you've reflected reality surges before but nothing happens right? That's because of your spacing.

Reality reflected is weaker the further away you are from your opponent. So a very common sense and correct answer here is GET CLOSER. Anticipate the surge and dash emptyjump into the reality and decrease the space from you and your opponent when reflecting it back into them. If you were close enough this is actually a punish and you can combo off of it.

So instead of sitting there and waiting for reality to get close to you, jump into and reflect it back at the opponent. When playing against reality this should be one of your key go to neutral patterns. This is basic bulldogging done the marvel way. In streetfighter you bulldog by taking a step forward and blocking, then doing it again and again and again till the opponent gets cornered or stops running away. In marvel you bulldog by emptyjumping towards your opponent with the anticipation of blocking their aerial normal/projectile/assist/reality stone.

Now, this is of course beatable. In mvc2 and skullgirls if you get predictable with this strategy then you can get airthrown for free.

And a good reality user will stop calling reality as obviously.

So who's a good user and how do they play? Well Justin Wong is the best reality user I've seen so far and if you notice, this way of playing against reality stone isn't going to work well against him.... but why is that? Because Justin tends to tag his reality calls for one, and for 2 and the biggest reason, it's because he protects realities startup. He calls reality, then does dash attack or boxdash attack or whatever before you get a chance to pushblock reality.

So how to play against that? Well there are options:

You can super jump to partially avoid the reality and to get yourself out of his dash/boxdash pressure and then reflect the reality as you are coming down on him. Or you can quickly wavedash back to get out of his boxdash range... etc etc.... its basic footsies.. and he's probably better than you so you will more than likely get crushed.... so that's not the point. The guy down the street isn't Justin Wong. But he may be a good reality user. Using these tactics against reality are far from a free win, but if you use these tactics smartly you can take a lot of the wind out of a reality stone abusers wings and that can allow you to play other stones with success against reality, and allow you to have fun and get some nice wins against the mindless spam.

Happy hunting.


Disclaimer:


I'm not saying I'm the only person that knows this or that people aren't already using this. I'm saying lots of people could use a decent plan against reality besides picking reality themselves like kazunoko did against Justin Wong, as well as just having a decent go to plan can make all the difference.
Gettin' my derp on.

Comments

  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 844
    Time stone.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod
    Pick Captain Marvel.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 3,083
    Close app, open Injustice 2, play it, close app, open MvCi, appreciate one lil red ball you can deflect, armor, and phase through.
    XBL: Kalyx triaD

    YouTube.com/Kalyx
  • ZioSerpeZioSerpe Fueled by nostalgia Joined: Posts: 1,230
    Dime wrote: »
    Ok, so this post might be kinda big

    As per usual.
    good points though.
    CFN - ZioSerpe
    Twitch
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,878
    ZioSerpe wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    Ok, so this post might be kinda big

    As per usual.
    good points though.

    You only have to read the first 4 lines though....
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,251 mod
    edited October 27
    So on top of what Dime says. There's quite a lot of things that punish air reality surge on reaction which has more recovery than the grounded one. Luckily since 99.5 percent of players use air reality surge that gives you good enough percentage to start looking for things to practice.


    Couple things that work on reaction any beam hyper that can be performed from the air like Ultron's, Nova's, Marvel's or Megaman's armor buster super (regular buster super works closer ranges, armor is pretty much full screen punish). They can't throw air surge vs any of these characters withtou taking guaranteed punish at least on the character that threw the surge. Zero's Raijinshou (the new invincible tornado level 1) can also punish it on reaction and has a high enough hit box where you can see them use it from the air and then just activate it on the ground and blow them up. Works great because even if they try to tag afterwards you're going to blow up the partner also.

    Playing Captain Marvel is also good because her photon absorber is basically a meterless coat of armor against reality surge. Can just go in and they have to use heavy buttons or other fireballs to really slow you down. She'll just eat right through standard reality surge spamming and get in. Especially good if you tag in a partner after she gets in. Also has air beam super so that's great too.


    Dante has 2 things that are really good vs it. Rain dance (air downwards gun spin) as its a projectile that tears right through the durability of the surge and then leaves you plenty of room to come down on them with hammer. Twister/Tempest is also really good as it's basically a huge lockdown projectile that easily eats up the surge. You can auto pilot do a combo starter vs someone and if a stray surge is coming at you from the air you can just cancel into Tempest to eat up the fireball then tag in partner to continue pressure.



    I'll post up more stuff or likely make a video on other options in the future.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,527
    PSN: Hawkingbird
    FC: 0834-1564-0151
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/runawayavenger
  • Zane HitsurugiZane Hitsurugi X-buster, ready. Joined: Posts: 1,123
    edited October 28
    Just pick sigma
    PSN: hawkw1ng
    BBCF: Susano'o, Bang, Kokonoe UNIBEXLTEST: Enkidu/Yuzuriha MVC:I- Megaman X/Zero
  • Midnight_IguanaMidnight_Iguana I play 3d fighters & mkxl. Joined: Posts: 145
    The stone I use 24/7 is space stone.
    But then again I use the megaman chars & gomorra, raccoon, frank west etc dorm & pretty much anybody not called dante or bionic commando.
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