Hori Fighting Commander 4 not working on PS4 Slim

LagannLagann Sorry for bad english, you know the drillJoined: Posts: 20
Anyone else had this problem?

I went to a local today, I played on PS3 and PS4 FAT and everything went well. I tried playing on a PS4 Slim and it didn't recognize the controller. PS Button didn't work, Restarting the console didn't work.

It seems logical to the problem to be that particular console, but earlier this year I had the same problem with a PS4 Slim during other event. Anyone sharing this experience?
For the record, I padhacked the HFC4 PCB

It goes like: PCB---Neutrik----5m long USB A-B cable

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Comments

  • TortaTorta A piece of Cake Joined: Posts: 725
    Maybe try using a shorter USB Cable?

    It's weird.. i use a hori Fighting Commander by my own (no mods neither padhacks, just normal gamepad use) and i haven't experienced issues on a PS4 Slim (I don't play regularly on those consoles tho).

    But i would try a shorter USB Cable, as resistance on some USB Cables/Boards can affect communication (like PS360+ boards do lol)
    VAMOS
    MCCthulhu >> all

    KOFXIII: Ash/King/Vice
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,899
    Try a shorter USB cable and shorter wiring in your stick over all (including the internal USB cable).

    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • LagannLagann Sorry for bad english, you know the drill Joined: Posts: 20
    Thanks, guys

    A shorter cable (1m) did the trick

    Still ,maybe I should work on the wiring

    HFC4 have a 3m long cable by itselft. Add another 5m to that and there's the problem.
  • FreedomGundamFreedomGundam Freedom, ikimasu! Joined: Posts: 2,522
    Lagann wrote: »
    Thanks, guys

    A shorter cable (1m) did the trick

    Still ,maybe I should work on the wiring

    HFC4 have a 3m long cable by itselft. Add another 5m to that and there's the problem.
    If I remember correctly, USB cables are best under 15'; anything longer starts getting weird. 3+5m = ~24'. That's definitely WAY over standard acceptable USB cable length specs.
    Current at-home stick: Hori VLX Kuro (LS-40-01 + PS-14-K)
    Current portable stick: Mad Catz TvC (LS-40-01 + PS-14-KN)
    Current guest-sticks: custom ABS Modular stick (JLF + OBSN-30), custom Saint-stick (Happ/IL Competition)
    Cabinet: custom "Resistor" cabinet (32" LCD, X360, P1=LS-32-01 + PS-14-KN, P2=JLF + OBSC-30)
    Previous sticks: custom Happ CvS2 Double-sticks, custom Happ Hitomi-stick & Xenosaga-stick, custom Sanwa/Seimitsu Neptune-stick and Sylvia-stick, modded Mad Catz TvC, modded Mad Catz Brawlstick, modded Hori FSVX, modded Exar Exaprize

    Looking for:
    CPS2 (green or blue): Hyper SF2
    Naomi GD-ROM: SF Zero3 Upper, Puyo Puyo Fever, Triggerheart Excelica, Ikaruga
  • LagannLagann Sorry for bad english, you know the drill Joined: Posts: 20
    It seems you are right

    http://www.yourcablestore.com/USB-Cable-Length-Limitations-And-How-To-Break-Them_ep_42-1.html

    Although, it's kinda weird it works on PS4 FATs and doesn't on Slims
  • TortaTorta A piece of Cake Joined: Posts: 725
    Can you do some soldering? i'd try shortening the HFC USB Cable, then testing USB A-B Cables :)
    VAMOS
    MCCthulhu >> all

    KOFXIII: Ash/King/Vice
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,899
    Lagann wrote: »
    It seems you are right

    http://www.yourcablestore.com/USB-Cable-Length-Limitations-And-How-To-Break-Them_ep_42-1.html

    Although, it's kinda weird it works on PS4 FATs and doesn't on Slims

    The PS4 Phat and the PS4 slim aren't the same hardware.
    The two consoles have different tolerances for USB.

    1. Part of the problem no one wants to pay attention to is that the USB devices has to send a request when it first plugs into the host (in our case a PS4).
    If the host accepts the request (including requesting sufficient power in watts to power everything) there is a handshake between the device and host and things go as planned.

    And most USB Hosts, especially PC motherboards on USB 2.0/ 1.1 ports and some consoles are really stingy on power. That is where half the problem comes in.
    This can be sometimes worked arounded by using a powered USB hub (A USB hub with it's own power source, min 1amp from the AC/DC adapter.
    Sad thing is the better made host devices sometimes are pickier than the cheap ones.


    2. The other part is the length of the USB cable. USB cables are supposed to go no more than 10 feet with 15 feet being the max.
    Pass 15 feet USB cables will fail unless a repeater of some kind is used.

    Because at those lengths you start to notice two different forces into play:
    A. voltage drop (longer the wire, the higher the resistance and thus lower the voltage on the other side)
    B. And more importantly Interference.

    Interference is the most annoying part, cheap unshielded cables tend to do poorly. And the stock USB cables in most arcade sticks are already skimming the minimum side of USB specs.
    Keep in mind, every wire also acts as an antenna, and as an antenna every wire will pick up Radio Frequency (RF) and Electromagnetic (EM) interference.
    Any number of home appliances and electronic devices throws off RF and EM Interference, even your own wires and Cables interfere with itself (electrical current passing through a wire will produce a magnetic field).
    Hence why most modders like to keep their wiring as short and tidy as possible. If you ever hear the term Cross-Talk, that is two data wires (true with both digital or analog) start interfering with the other and a single wire end up sending the signals of both wires. With analog signals you develop what is called an interference pattern, when it comes to digital and how digital works it works with absolute Pulses (on and off states, ones and zeros) instead of wave functions. Mess with the pulses of Ones and Zeros, and you lose the the entire Data being sent.

    A Good, Well made USB cable will have the Data - and Data + lines in a twisted pair, as well as some kind of shielding (foil with a drain wire or preferably a wire braid covering all the internal wiring).
    Another good trait of a well made USB cable is the wiring thicker, a smaller number gauge is used to help battle the effects of interference and voltage drop.
    Which is also why you want to always tie the shield ground into ground somewhere. Some Hori and Mad Catz PCBs have a dedicated S Gnd pad or via to tie the Shield to ground.

    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • LagannLagann Sorry for bad english, you know the drill Joined: Posts: 20
    Torta wrote: »
    Can you do some soldering? i'd try shortening the HFC USB Cable, then testing USB A-B Cables :)

    I can, I probably will

    I did all the wiring on my stick ^^
  • LagannLagann Sorry for bad english, you know the drill Joined: Posts: 20
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Lagann wrote: »
    It seems you are right

    http://www.yourcablestore.com/USB-Cable-Length-Limitations-And-How-To-Break-Them_ep_42-1.html

    Although, it's kinda weird it works on PS4 FATs and doesn't on Slims

    The PS4 Phat and the PS4 slim aren't the same hardware.
    The two consoles have different tolerances for USB.

    1. Part of the problem no one wants to pay attention to is that the USB devices has to send a request when it first plugs into the host (in our case a PS4).
    If the host accepts the request (including requesting sufficient power in watts to power everything) there is a handshake between the device and host and things go as planned.

    And most USB Hosts, especially PC motherboards on USB 2.0/ 1.1 ports and some consoles are really stingy on power. That is where half the problem comes in.
    This can be sometimes worked arounded by using a powered USB hub (A USB hub with it's own power source, min 1amp from the AC/DC adapter.
    Sad thing is the better made host devices sometimes are pickier than the cheap ones.


    2. The other part is the length of the USB cable. USB cables are supposed to go no more than 10 feet with 15 feet being the max.
    Pass 15 feet USB cables will fail unless a repeater of some kind is used.

    Because at those lengths you start to notice two different forces into play:
    A. voltage drop (longer the wire, the higher the resistance and thus lower the voltage on the other side)
    B. And more importantly Interference.

    Interference is the most annoying part, cheap unshielded cables tend to do poorly. And the stock USB cables in most arcade sticks are already skimming the minimum side of USB specs.
    Keep in mind, every wire also acts as an antenna, and as an antenna every wire will pick up Radio Frequency (RF) and Electromagnetic (EM) interference.
    Any number of home appliances and electronic devices throws off RF and EM Interference, even your own wires and Cables interfere with itself (electrical current passing through a wire will produce a magnetic field).
    Hence why most modders like to keep their wiring as short and tidy as possible. If you ever hear the term Cross-Talk, that is two data wires (true with both digital or analog) start interfering with the other and a single wire end up sending the signals of both wires. With analog signals you develop what is called an interference pattern, when it comes to digital and how digital works it works with absolute Pulses (on and off states, ones and zeros) instead of wave functions. Mess with the pulses of Ones and Zeros, and you lose the the entire Data being sent.

    A Good, Well made USB cable will have the Data - and Data + lines in a twisted pair, as well as some kind of shielding (foil with a drain wire or preferably a wire braid covering all the internal wiring).
    Another good trait of a well made USB cable is the wiring thicker, a smaller number gauge is used to help battle the effects of interference and voltage drop.
    Which is also why you want to always tie the shield ground into ground somewhere. Some Hori and Mad Catz PCBs have a dedicated S Gnd pad or via to tie the Shield to ground.

    Wow, this is deeper than I thought

    Thanks for this insight

    Things are way clear now
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,899
    Lagann wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Lagann wrote: »
    It seems you are right

    http://www.yourcablestore.com/USB-Cable-Length-Limitations-And-How-To-Break-Them_ep_42-1.html

    Although, it's kinda weird it works on PS4 FATs and doesn't on Slims

    The PS4 Phat and the PS4 slim aren't the same hardware.
    The two consoles have different tolerances for USB.

    1. Part of the problem no one wants to pay attention to is that the USB devices has to send a request when it first plugs into the host (in our case a PS4).
    If the host accepts the request (including requesting sufficient power in watts to power everything) there is a handshake between the device and host and things go as planned.

    And most USB Hosts, especially PC motherboards on USB 2.0/ 1.1 ports and some consoles are really stingy on power. That is where half the problem comes in.
    This can be sometimes worked arounded by using a powered USB hub (A USB hub with it's own power source, min 1amp from the AC/DC adapter.
    Sad thing is the better made host devices sometimes are pickier than the cheap ones.


    2. The other part is the length of the USB cable. USB cables are supposed to go no more than 10 feet with 15 feet being the max.
    Pass 15 feet USB cables will fail unless a repeater of some kind is used.

    Because at those lengths you start to notice two different forces into play:
    A. voltage drop (longer the wire, the higher the resistance and thus lower the voltage on the other side)
    B. And more importantly Interference.

    Interference is the most annoying part, cheap unshielded cables tend to do poorly. And the stock USB cables in most arcade sticks are already skimming the minimum side of USB specs.
    Keep in mind, every wire also acts as an antenna, and as an antenna every wire will pick up Radio Frequency (RF) and Electromagnetic (EM) interference.
    Any number of home appliances and electronic devices throws off RF and EM Interference, even your own wires and Cables interfere with itself (electrical current passing through a wire will produce a magnetic field).
    Hence why most modders like to keep their wiring as short and tidy as possible. If you ever hear the term Cross-Talk, that is two data wires (true with both digital or analog) start interfering with the other and a single wire end up sending the signals of both wires. With analog signals you develop what is called an interference pattern, when it comes to digital and how digital works it works with absolute Pulses (on and off states, ones and zeros) instead of wave functions. Mess with the pulses of Ones and Zeros, and you lose the the entire Data being sent.

    A Good, Well made USB cable will have the Data - and Data + lines in a twisted pair, as well as some kind of shielding (foil with a drain wire or preferably a wire braid covering all the internal wiring).
    Another good trait of a well made USB cable is the wiring thicker, a smaller number gauge is used to help battle the effects of interference and voltage drop.
    Which is also why you want to always tie the shield ground into ground somewhere. Some Hori and Mad Catz PCBs have a dedicated S Gnd pad or via to tie the Shield to ground.

    Wow, this is deeper than I thought

    Thanks for this insight

    Things are way clear now

    Its honestly not that deep, but I felt it was necessary to explain the basic science of what is going on
    To electronic engineers, I gloss over and over simplify a lot of things but this is far far from anything really technical

    I was told my diode tutorial which is like 8 times this length was too over simplistic as I didn't go into the physics on how and why the Semiconductors works
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • MrSujanoMrSujano Joined: Posts: 62
    Lagann wrote: »
    Torta wrote: »
    Can you do some soldering? i'd try shortening the HFC USB Cable, then testing USB A-B Cables :)

    I can, I probably will

    I did all the wiring on my stick ^^

    On the plus side, you have a ton of cable to work with :)
    I agree with Darksakul here - try shortening it up considerably and go from there.
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