What happened to SRK/the FGC?

DrambitDrambit High Overlord BalrogJoined: Posts: 612
I stopped playing fighting games some time in 2012 although I've been loosely following tournaments and the pro scene in general the whole time. I'm coming back a bit because I got into Tekken 7 and wanted to finish some arcade sticks I've been working on for a long time. Coming back now I got this major vibe that the community died a long time ago and is just the niche hardcores left. Seems like most of the tech innovation stopped 4 years ago, new designs, new parts, etc. I don't see many noobs around, don't see a lot of activity in general honestly.

I looked up trends to see if this was just a feeling or actually truthful, here is the google trends for SRK since 2004.

CKGuwfa.png

What on earth happened here?

Comments

  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,273
    The FGC was always niche, and niche trends wax and wane.
    The more novel trends die off.

    Welcome to the FGC.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,356
    Wasted wrote: »
    SF4 2012 happened.

    More like SFxT happened.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 6,399
    Oh, that was a thing, yeah. Slipped my mind for some reason.
    SFV: Ken, with THAT ORANGE COSTUME

    I have nobody to play with, so I typically talk out of my ass.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,404 mod
    I legit don't have 3 hours to spare to write it all down.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,355 admin
    You can probably directly chart all of that to major events in the fighting game industry and the tides of social media. I see the SRK internal stats when updating aspects of Vanilla, and you can pretty easily see the tides surrounding game releases, Evo, etc.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • AzureAzure E-Sports is fucking retarded. Joined: Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭ Former OG
    edited November 30
    Wasted wrote: »
    SF4 2012 happened.

    AE was worse.

    Super and Ultra were the good ones.

    And they WERE good.

    Ultra got robbed by the absolute travesty that is 5.

    Ultra could have had 4 more years, and it would have been great to watch, as well as play.

    The meta got shafted by a piece of shit "sequel" that needed a few more years, incubating in Crapcom's anus, to refine itself into a more polished turd, before being flushed down the shitter for something better... like a stained, empty bowl, or Capcom acquiring the licensing rights to poop out a Time Killers remake.

    Ultra 4 is a better Street Fighter 5 than SF5 will ever be.
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.

    eSports is fucking retarded.
  • traxustraxus Joined: Posts: 352
    Maybe you are forgetting how bad ultra was when it launched. The hitboxes on the SFxT copy/paste characters were busted, netcode was fucked up on the PS3 and completely broken on PC for an absurd amount of time. PS4 version had severe performance issues IIRC when that came out as well.

    The new 'features' were wack as well imo. Delayed wakeup was implemented in a really counter-intuitive way. Press a button on most knockdowns to get up faster, press a button on hard knockdowns to get up... slower? Red focus was a dud.

    Maybe it ended up being better overall than AE/2012, but it took capcom a long time to fix major issues and get it there, and SF4 in general was really stale by that point.
  • DrambitDrambit High Overlord Balrog Joined: Posts: 612
    traxus wrote: »
    Maybe you are forgetting how bad ultra was when it launched.

    seems like it was already pretty dead by that point though, I stopped playing with AE 2012.
  • DrambitDrambit High Overlord Balrog Joined: Posts: 612
    By the way that chart is adjusted based on relative popularity, which means that shoryuken.com right now is about 2.5% as popular as it was in 2010.
  • traxustraxus Joined: Posts: 352
    That was @ the guy above my post, but yeah I think much of the attention SF4 had garnered from the mainstream was already gone by that point, outside of maybe tuning into evo when it's on the front page of twitch.
  • DrambitDrambit High Overlord Balrog Joined: Posts: 612
    Man that's depressing. I came back to finish some arcade sticks I have had half-built for years, not even sure if it's worth finishing them at this point. Probably will just for the hell of it.
  • traxustraxus Joined: Posts: 352
    edited November 30
    Too be fair, SRK has really only been a hub for modern capcom games, and SF5 + (to a much larger degree) MVCI have been flops. SFxT before that not well received by players either.

    Even if they are trafficked way less than SSF4 era SRK, dustloop/tekkenzaibatsu/testyourmight/etc are still around for other games and sub-genres. A lot of folks have moved to places like discord and reddit for fighting game stuff as well. If you find the right places for the games you're playing, I don't think you'll have a shortage of people to play/discuss them with, albeit they will be smaller communities. There were even a decent amount of people on fightcade for ST, 3S, old KoF, etc. on fightcade last I checked.

    I'm not sure fighting games are going to get back into the mainstream limelight anytime soon thou, but perhaps dragonball figherz has a chance.

  • DrambitDrambit High Overlord Balrog Joined: Posts: 612
    Modern capcom games also happen to be the bottom line of the FGC. Tekken 7 is doing well, but still not great.
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Which seems sad because I have randomly browsed reddit and discord and I dont see any better conversations than here
  • LordxMugenLordxMugen FIGHTAN GAHMS!!! Joined: Posts: 582
    I agree with the others here that what was once a novel (if very niche) genre has since deteriorated into what it is now. Some of the games arent as much fun as others that came before and I feel like many studios dont really have a clear direction of where to take the genre next that can appeal to both crowds without resulting in terrible ideas like Xfactor ,or Tekken's "supers", whatever the hell SCV's deal was, the complete dissection of defense tech in most fighting games,etc. And also, for certain local and online scenes, newcomers arent exactly always the most welcomed. at least they may feel that way since they might not have anyone they measure up to very well. But yeah, thats kind of what happened.
    *silently waits for Darkstalkers 4*
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,404 mod
    d3v wrote: »
    The real answer is social media, reddit, and discord.

    OGs imploded SRK with no survivors.

    One part of the puzzle is the dumb shit James Chen would say that "if you ever played an FG, you are FGC". There is not a single cultural group ever fucking studied that has such a low barrier of membership. That dumb shit made it so that any random place was suddenly FGC if people wanked to KoF doujins.

    The rest is some other wacky decision making in the SF4 years.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,355 admin
    I don't follow. The barrier I'm aware of for membership has been showing up. This is true for all of the many groups that I'm involved with. Everybody here started as a complete random: in theory we should respect the randoms as future us'es. Allowing people to consider themselves part of the community doesn't hurt anybody. Unless they're into cosplay. That hurts everybody involved.

    The more people involved the more chance you have for the few people that are going to take the time to make substantive investments to the community.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,134 mod
    edited November 30
    Which seems sad because I have randomly browsed reddit and discord and I dont see any better conversations than here

    That's just part of it. You missed the social media bit. Most of the top players who used to post here started posting on social media. It used to be that SRK was the best place to get in touch with the top players for most games. Now, it's much easier to do it on Twitter or Facebook.

    Decentralization spreads people out. Unlike before where stuff was all on one place, now stuff is scattered everywhere. Even where you'd think people would centralize too, you still find stuff scattered. For example some games have multiple discords dedicated to that, all started by different people.
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ya I am part of some facebook groups for fighting games, but I dont see much on them besides usually people just talk about a match video they saw or wanting to play in real life. Like trying to set up tourneys etc, I dont see actual things what SRK use to be for when I was a kid like strategies tactics conversations about gameplay etc.



    And ya ive tried looking at multiple discords, honestly the conversations that I saw were basically only a step above gamefaqs sorta level I would say.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,134 mod
    Nobody wants to read anymore. Stuff is usually just posted as video on YouTube or Twitter and most discussion happens there, or in private.
  • DrambitDrambit High Overlord Balrog Joined: Posts: 612
    d3v wrote: »
    Nobody wants to read anymore. Stuff is usually just posted as video on YouTube or Twitter and most discussion happens there, or in private.

    funny how people read lots for other games.
  • jblairjblair Joined: Posts: 1,451
    That google graph makes perfect sense but geez, I guess I hadn't realized how much the site had REALLY fallen off. Funny given the increased production value of the front page, and all the other new bullshit, is obviously aimed at being more mainstream, and attracting new people. It has definitely seemed like a total ghost town, but yeah, still surprising to see it laid out like that. You can see how this happened to dustloop more quickly, and severely: the degeneration from useful ggxx info, to bb weeb lore central, to absolute ghost town. It is REALLY amazing to see how in that graph, the release of SFV did basically NOTHING in comparison to the releases of sf4, daigo moment, etc. Sad to see really, this was the first place I came to when I started to play third strike, and I would have never found my local arcade scene (which was far weaker when I found it than it was in 2000-2006), or gone to norcal regionals. We still had like 30-40 people show up for every new arcade release of sf4, but now if you aren't playing in someone's fucking bedroom or at a tournament, there is basically no way for a random to get in and find people. Going to a tournament as a newcomer is pretty daunting, but now it is pretty much the only way to "show up."
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Basically SRK has reverted back to its pre 09 days. And seeing how you joined during 09 or thereabouts you wouldn't know how dead the scene was back then, how a "major" tournament had only 50-100 people showing up. Only difference is that now there is far more competition. SRK doesn't have the presence it used to have, and it no longer serves the same purpose.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,877
    Going to echo d3v here, it's social media. Discord is a million times better for character specific stuff, Twitter makes sharing tech simpler, and Facebook enables organization
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,134 mod
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Going to echo d3v here, it's social media. Discord is a million times better for character specific stuff, Twitter makes sharing tech simpler, and Facebook enables organization

    It's much easier to join in on social media. Just about everyone has some sort of social media account these days, so there's not need to join in on an exclusive forum to participate in a community.

    The problem right now though is that of impermanence. Unlike with a forum, where stuff can be stickied and kept alive, most stuff on social media lasts only so long before it's buried. Even Reddit, which has forum features, suffers from the same problem since it's formatting makes keeping a lot of stickies, or old discussions alive, difficult.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,877
    d3v wrote: »
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Going to echo d3v here, it's social media. Discord is a million times better for character specific stuff, Twitter makes sharing tech simpler, and Facebook enables organization

    It's much easier to join in on social media. Just about everyone has some sort of social media account these days, so there's not need to join in on an exclusive forum to participate in a community.

    The problem right now though is that of impermanence. Unlike with a forum, where stuff can be stickied and kept alive, most stuff on social media lasts only so long before it's buried. Even Reddit, which has forum features, suffers from the same problem since it's formatting makes keeping a lot of stickies, or old discussions alive, difficult.

    Eh, discord is pretty good about that; just have a resources channel that serves a similar role
  • AsteriskBlueAsteriskBlue Joined: Posts: 765
    Everyone put all their eggs in one basket, then after a while the basket failed to get even semi-respectable sales.
    It's nice to meet you, too.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,355 admin
    edited November 30
    I can tell you as a kid I have gone to tournaments was beating "top players" and they would shake the machine and moved it back and forth while I was comboing them so I wouldnt beat them and do you think any tournament organizer cared about that shit?
    Yup: Bang the Machine. At NCR3 (IIRC) I remember Potter and DJ-b13 playing and they were just smashing the fuck out of the cabinet when the other person had caught them in a combo. It was just part of the game.

    APEX was an interesting system but imploded due to the fake tournaments people posted up. And if you were out of a populated region, you were pretty much fucked.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • Bomberman3000Bomberman3000 The Headshaker Joined: Posts: 2,400
    Seems to be multiple factors, but things are a lot more spread out when it comes to where one wants to go online if one's interested in anything FGC-related. That and you don't see much of anything SRK-related pushed out these days.
    "What Strength!!
    But Don't forget,
    There are many guys like you, all over the world!!!"

    SteamID: BombermanGOLDEN
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,355 admin
    FWIW I think the useful question is - what can we do to make the things we care about better?

    I don't think SRK is required. If people find a place to party together, awesome. In theory any place can serve as a place for people to come together and learn to beat each other up better. Facebook has proven pretty shitty for it, imho. (It gets carried by its user base, not by it being good at community building/organization/knowledge-sharing.) Reddit is kind of interesting as a kitchen sink approach, but also shitty. Discord/slack/etc has seemed divisive to me - there's a variety of secret squirrel servers out there, knowledge maintenance and discoverability sucks imho, blah blah. Wikis are pretty good as long as you maintain and build the fuck out of them. That's less fun than playing games so it doesn't happen. IRC is actually still pretty good, and oddly to me has about the same discoverability as discord. Sooooo I like SRK. Even as broken as Vanilla is. rip vbulletin days.

    I think the last huge joint effort I can think of was the wiki. It is really easy to enjoy the fruits of other's labor. It's hard to put stuff out there yourself, to help others. I know I've slacked pretty hard: I went to an MvC2 tournament Tuesday night and didn't tape it, for example. Just a small thing I could have done, but I didn't do it and that particular community is a little less due to my lack of effort. Blarg.

    Ask not what your community can do for you, but what you can do for your community.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • DrambitDrambit High Overlord Balrog Joined: Posts: 612
    Has the entire FGC not declined sharply in the same timeframe? Definitely seems like it has.

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