The Art of War: Zeku Match up thread

PerthoPertho Capt of Team #HellspawnJoined: Posts: 22,825 mod
Post strategies, suggestions, punishes and other match up specific info. Will updated it regularly.

Abigail
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Akuma
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Alex
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Balrog
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Cammy
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Chun Li

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Dhalsim
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Ed
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F.A.N.G.
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Guile
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Ibuki
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Juri
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Karin
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Ken
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Kolin
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Laura
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M.Bison
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Menat
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Nash
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Necalli
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Rashid
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R.Mika
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Ryu
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Urien
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Vega
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Zangief
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Zeku Mirror

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Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

"Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
jimmy1200 wrote: »
pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.

Comments

  • PerthoPertho Capt of Team #Hellspawn Joined: Posts: 22,825 mod
    Saving just in case
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    The first thing we gotta do is determine which zeku version is better agaisnt each character in neutral game. Then what zeku version is better agaisnt each character when he is in.

    Young zeku (rushdown)
    Old zeku (zoning)

    So far i got this for neutral:
    Young: Nash, Guile, Ryu, Chun, Akuma, Sim, Cammy, R.mika, Laura, Ibuki, Karin, Urien
    Old: abigail, gief, balrog, bison, vega, necalli

    Both versions take huge risks but young gets biggest rewards so imo that should be the standard to deal with most matchups.

    That said, it looks like Bison, Balrog, Chun beat us...
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • PerthoPertho Capt of Team #Hellspawn Joined: Posts: 22,825 mod
    I'm a bit torn on Abigail. Maybe Old Zeku is better but rushing down Abigail feels better than trying to keep him out. Rushing down with old zeku might be the best option.

    Against Karin there's a decent up close range where Old Zeku does well because st.lk keeps her from pressing her best buttons. If you're at half inside the lenght of her st.mk she can't really argue with OZ's st.lk.

    Chun match up is silly stuff though. Feels like you have to hope they don't know all they have to do is press buttons.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 923
    I also like young against abigail. Having a 3 frame normal stops some of his bullshit
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    edited January 4
    I still have yet to play a chun, but having mained her in her past I know that her weakness is both sweeps and fireballs.

    Sweeps because they tend to beat out all her standing pokes (YZ has slide) fireballs because she doesn’t have great answers for them. Zeku doesn’t have a fireball though.


    If you can figure out the chuns rhythm though, slide will more than likely be a decent option against her. Low moves in general (which all of Zekus are pretty shit) tend to give her problems.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Dime wrote: »
    I still have yet to play a chun, but having mained her in her past I know that her weakness is both sweeps and fireballs.

    Sweeps because they tend to beat out all her standing pokes (YZ has slide) fireballs because she doesn’t have great answers for them. Zeku doesn’t have a fireball though.


    If you can figure out the chuns rhythm though, slide will more than likely be a decent option against her. Low moves in general (which all of Zekus are pretty shit) tend to give her problems.

    The problem is when the slide didn't connect and also Chun has one. What I've found annoying the most are her long limbs, whiff punish that shit is almost impossible. Working her outside her st.hp/st.hk range helps to get there with the slide when she throws out these normals. If she chose to go with fireballs getting inside with Hozanto will make our job even easier. Once we're there we need to apply a non stop pressure,if she keep blocking or using the V-Reversal we had to restart from the beginning. Getting the lifelead would help us at taking advantage of her faults like jumps, staying outside her longest normals will give us more time to react. Atm this kind of gameplan works for me,but isn't easy. She's definitely getting stronger in AE, I hope Zeku did same or guys we have a problem.
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    She definitely beats Zeku, but it is not that bad since Zeku (young) abuses the game engine more. If there were 0f input lag it would be like 6 5-3.5 chun but thankfully it is not lol we can dash our way in and pressure her until the other player cracks.
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    Guile seems like a bad matchup. Versus old he can just l boom and flash kick. Versus young he can just l boom and jump.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Have no problems with Guile, he can't keep out Young. Booms aren't really a problem, his far reaching normals are -oB and we can get the turn. Guile can't really go on offense on Zeku without taking risks and trying to playing lame will make him cornered in an heartbeat. There Young kills him. In general Zeku need to pay attention to Guile CC normals like the backhand fist and the straight one, even not getting cornered helps. With young normals isn't hard keeping Guile at the bay,st.HP works amazingly from midrange against him.
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,723 mod
    A lot of Zeku's normals outright whiff on Chun in blockstrings, so that MU seems bad from that alone. He can't do st.mp > st.mp on her crouching hitbox and he can't do st.mk > st.mp either

    I've yet to have that happen with other characters.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Yeah, it seems we're forced to get closer or use Young st.HK the most against her,but using the latter from a safer distance just make the st.mp whiff by default. With the only change Zeku gets from AE and the buffs Chun will get this MU will be officially his worst.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Have no problems with Guile, he can't keep out Young. Booms aren't really a problem, his far reaching normals are -oB and we can get the turn. Guile can't really go on offense on Zeku without taking risks and trying to playing lame will make him cornered in an heartbeat. There Young kills him. In general Zeku need to pay attention to Guile CC normals like the backhand fist and the straight one, even not getting cornered helps. With young normals isn't hard keeping Guile at the bay,st.HP works amazingly from midrange against him.

    When you say booms aren’t really a problem I’m assuming you are playing against terrible guiles. What about his boom game isn’t hard to get around? The only thing you got is your projectile invulnerable moves and you basically have to do them almost ahead of time to not get them blocked.ir guess and if you guess you are getting punished bad for wrong guesses since he’s -6 and point blank at best. If it’s slide it’s even worse.

    What are you using to beat his booms. Pls don’t tell me your jumping them or palming them... a good guile isn’t going to let you palm his booms for free.

    Idk. I’d have to see some of your games to see. I saw Valle beating up a guile once with YZ but he wasn’t getting punished for blocked shoulders at all.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    Zeku has some stuff to deal with guile booms

    Young zeku hozantos have proyectile inv frames for all versions starting in frame 8 so guile cannot really spam booms mindlessly at mid range

    Young run > slide goes below booms

    Zeku CA is 4 frames startup and has a far reaching hitbox

    His slide is fairly good at mid range

    His vtrigger allows him to insta teleport next to guile and pressure with the string cr.lk, cr.mk, s.hp, cr.hk. Thats really nasty to block if you are trying to move back

    Old zeku ex command jump has projectile inv frames from frame 1

    And guile cracks to pressure once you get in. Young zeku normals are really fast. I dont fear guile either
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    Also Valle has good fundamentals and is a good guide and low-mid level but for high level i would recommend watching chris wong videos. Ignore all the crap of pro players (like momochi etc) that played zeku week 1 for the hype and dropped him shortly after. They win cause they are great players not because they were using zeku as he should be used.
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    edited January 5
    (delete pls)
    Post edited by serpentaurus on
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    Zeku has some stuff to deal with guile booms

    Young zeku hozantos have proyectile inv frames for all versions starting in frame 8 so guile cannot really spam booms mindlessly at mid range

    Young run > slide goes below booms

    Zeku CA is 4 frames startup and has a far reaching hitbox

    His slide is fairly good at mid range

    His vtrigger allows him to insta teleport next to guile and pressure with the string cr.lk, cr.mk, s.hp, cr.hk. Thats really nasty to block if you are trying to move back

    Old zeku ex command jump has projectile inv frames from frame 1

    And guile cracks to pressure once you get in. Young zeku normals are really fast. I dont fear guile either

    That’s all fine and dandy, but what I’m saying is how many of those counters can be done on reaction and not get blocked against a good guile? All of those are anticipatory afaik. The only one I could see being used on reaction is ex hozanto. There is literally no way you are hitting guile with an H hozanto unless you do it at like near the same time they boom... or they do some dumb shit like walk into it... which I’ve seen but... I mean....maybe playing loose and risky like that is called for... I guess. It’s faster than a jump anyways.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Have no problems with Guile, he can't keep out Young. Booms aren't really a problem, his far reaching normals are -oB and we can get the turn. Guile can't really go on offense on Zeku without taking risks and trying to playing lame will make him cornered in an heartbeat. There Young kills him. In general Zeku need to pay attention to Guile CC normals like the backhand fist and the straight one, even not getting cornered helps. With young normals isn't hard keeping Guile at the bay,st.HP works amazingly from midrange against him.

    When you say booms aren’t really a problem I’m assuming you are playing against terrible guiles. What about his boom game isn’t hard to get around? The only thing you got is your projectile invulnerable moves and you basically have to do them almost ahead of time to not get them blocked.ir guess and if you guess you are getting punished bad for wrong guesses since he’s -6 and point blank at best. If it’s slide it’s even worse.

    What are you using to beat his booms. Pls don’t tell me your jumping them or palming them... a good guile isn’t going to let you palm his booms for free.

    Idk. I’d have to see some of your games to see. I saw Valle beating up a guile once with YZ but he wasn’t getting punished for blocked shoulders at all.

    I'm using MP Hozanto the most. Once you are in range baiting them with neutral jumps catching the Guile off guard becomes easier, you could use even HP Hozanto if Guile throws his booms mindlessly. Outside his far reaching normal Guile can't do nothing but throw a SB, if he's too scared to do that YZ has room to close the range and apply pressure. From close range most Guiles don't love to use booms to prevent being jumped on,so they need to make a decision. The thing could be problematic when he has meter 'cuz reacting to ex SB with Hozanto is impossible,but doing so Guile give up useful meter for his EX Flash Kicks. Hozanto are good enough to bypass also VT SB. You just need to force Guile to shoot them booms. @serpentaurus is also right,even EX Slide could work, but I'm still not too good at doing so.

    Sometimes happened a Guile is good at baiting the Hozanto and punish, but he can't really bait them all. Once YZ gets in push him out it's hard for Guile without using V-Reversal or EX FK. Baiting the VR it's easy with st.lk into grab, for the FK we have definitely need to anticipate the move.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    Yeah, took a page out of your book watched a few of your guile matches and saw what you did and decided to do it myself. I pwned the shit out of a guile that normally beats me.

    Suffice it to say I was just doing random hozantos and slides and getting punished sometimes but once I got in he cracked pretty much everytime. Feels like shit playing that way though because I feel like I’m using bronze level tactics but if it’s what gets the W then, well... that’s just how the game plays.

    Anywho thanks for the tips. Once the guile was worried about both random slide and random hozanto he had like nothing else he could do.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Dime wrote: »
    Yeah, took a page out of your book watched a few of your guile matches and saw what you did and decided to do it myself. I pwned the shit out of a guile that normally beats me.

    Suffice it to say I was just doing random hozantos and slides and getting punished sometimes but once I got in he cracked pretty much everytime. Feels like shit playing that way though because I feel like I’m using bronze level tactics but if it’s what gets the W then, well... that’s just how the game plays.

    Anywho thanks for the tips. Once the guile was worried about both random slide and random hozanto he had like nothing else he could do.

    Yeah, SFV Guile is less a defensive wall than his SF4 version, especially the SB, that's why Dieminion didn't use him anymore. Strangely Guiles nowadays are too afraid of forward marching characters and they literally shit in their pants when YZ gets near to them. I've seen this distance tactic used by Tokido when he tries Zeku and works. Hozanto is surprisingly good against fireballs and the reward vs Guile worth the risk. Glad to know it helps, once you're next to him, there's nothing I need to explain to you, Guiles literally panic.

    In other news, I've being focusing on OZ now and I didn't noticed how his st.mk screwed a ton of people. Works exactly like the Laura one,but Zeku has advantage. Followed with st.HP xxHP/EX Koku leads to a fuckton of damage, I've to give a look at your post kd stuff now. Not only Cammy,but even the other dives lose clean to it, this character is full of surprise.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    Yeah, took a page out of your book watched a few of your guile matches and saw what you did and decided to do it myself. I pwned the shit out of a guile that normally beats me.

    Suffice it to say I was just doing random hozantos and slides and getting punished sometimes but once I got in he cracked pretty much everytime. Feels like shit playing that way though because I feel like I’m using bronze level tactics but if it’s what gets the W then, well... that’s just how the game plays.

    Anywho thanks for the tips. Once the guile was worried about both random slide and random hozanto he had like nothing else he could do.

    Yeah, SFV Guile is less a defensive wall than his SF4 version, especially the SB, that's why Dieminion didn't use him anymore. Strangely Guiles nowadays are too afraid of forward marching characters and they literally shit in their pants when YZ gets near to them. I've seen this distance tactic used by Tokido when he tries Zeku and works. Hozanto is surprisingly good against fireballs and the reward vs Guile worth the risk. Glad to know it helps, once you're next to him, there's nothing I need to explain to you, Guiles literally panic.

    In other news, I've being focusing on OZ now and I didn't noticed how his st.mk screwed a ton of people. Works exactly like the Laura one,but Zeku has advantage. Followed with st.HP xxHP/EX Koku leads to a fuckton of damage, I've to give a look at your post kd stuff now. Not only Cammy,but even the other dives lose clean to it, this character is full of surprise.

    Funny thing is I never had a problem with sf4 guile, lol. And I played a lot of good ones.

    The OZ st.mk thing, saying it’s like Laura’s is a bit nebulous I think, I don’t think you mean the cheesy repeatability like st.mk Xn over and over aggain since Zeku st.mk doesn’t move forward, so I’m going to assume you mean using it as an interrupt on defense like how Laura uses it to v trigger cancel into? I was thinking about trying to use it this way kinda but I haven’t had the chance to really look at it. Definitely didn’t think about it’s CH properties on defense... good show. Actually now that I think about it, this can probably be used as higher risk versus reward thing for a lot of characters on defense. Jab is lower risk, mediums higher risk but with higher rewards.... hmmmm.

    I’m getting back to work on that oki thread in a bit. It’s tedious boring time consuming work but it’s so worth it to have shit catalogued. I miss meatiest and then I look at the thread like... what should I have done there? Oh yeah. Then use it next game and catch a fool slippin. One day it will all be memorized, one day.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    Ok so 2 matchups I’m currently having trouble with:

    Cammy..
    She outpokes zeku and her BMP hits crossups. Just played one that basically advances with cannon drill which hit me everytime, divekick... and just cr.hp. Then AA with bmp all day. It was like a wall, but with a divekick attached.

    Fang...Young Zeku seemed outclassed here, oz out in some decent work but fang can just command dash through koku... so neither stance seems great.

    It really seems like if the opponent just has good AA it makes it pretty hard on zeku in general because his ground game really seems lacking for decent pokes.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 26
    edited January 6
    Dime wrote: »
    Ok so 2 matchups I’m currently having trouble with:

    Cammy..
    She outpokes zeku and her BMP hits crossups. Just played one that basically advances with cannon drill which hit me everytime, divekick... and just cr.hp. Then AA with bmp all day. It was like a wall, but with a divekick attached.

    Fang...Young Zeku seemed outclassed here, oz out in some decent work but fang can just command dash through koku... so neither stance seems great.

    It really seems like if the opponent just has good AA it makes it pretty hard on zeku in general because his ground game really seems lacking for decent pokes.

    Cammy - I recall her being really easy to AA. Old HK Dp or st.mp should stop any approach from the air.

    Fang - ....I have no idea. I remember it being very difficult to punish him with young or old. Most useful thing for Old is that Jyakura (flip) Elbow can beat out his Cr.Hp. Young I would wait for him to throw fireballs and run slide.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    Played against another guile... still a shit matchup if they keep calm and just mixup their teching/jabbing/walking back. Hozanto is bad. Gets a free cr.lp xx boom>sweep combo if he blocks you.

    Biggest problem with this game is the inability to really put blocking pressure on your opponent. Everything has mad pushout and there is no neutral poking game so pushout is really bad. If the game had strong ranged pokes it would be different with the pushout not being so bad, but as it is... it just don’t be feeling like streetfighter but instead some sort of weird mini game where you basically take turns guessing what each other is going to do and having few in between moves. Moves that are good and don’t leave you open but also don’t do much damage. Like everything I try in this game just fails. No ways to set people up. just do random shit and see what sticks. Oh I got countered, let’s try random move number 47 then! Oh that worked! Now let’s try random move 31! Hey it worked! Random move 68? Awwww..
    Didn’t work. Little strategy.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Dime wrote: »
    Played against another guile... still a shit matchup if they keep calm and just mixup their teching/jabbing/walking back. Hozanto is bad. Gets a free cr.lp xx boom>sweep combo if he blocks you.

    Biggest problem with this game is the inability to really put blocking pressure on your opponent. Everything has mad pushout and there is no neutral poking game so pushout is really bad. If the game had strong ranged pokes it would be different with the pushout not being so bad, but as it is... it just don’t be feeling like streetfighter but instead some sort of weird mini game where you basically take turns guessing what each other is going to do and having few in between moves. Moves that are good and don’t leave you open but also don’t do much damage. Like everything I try in this game just fails. No ways to set people up. just do random shit and see what sticks. Oh I got countered, let’s try random move number 47 then! Oh that worked! Now let’s try random move 31! Hey it worked! Random move 68? Awwww..
    Didn’t work. Little strategy.

    Just saw your replays vs Guile,you goes full throttle too much. I've seen the one where you won the 1st round, you started immediately with a flip,but was too high, there's no advantage if you did Jakura that way. Then going for it vs Guile isn't useful since from that distance he could counter it pretty easily, in fact he goes for an A2A the next round. YZ tc isn't bad,but cr.mp,st.mp xxMP Hozanto,MP Palm is better and give you a better oki with run-stop cr.mp. Guile V-Skill has 10f recovery, no reason to use EX Hozanto for it and he could just use it to bait your shoulder mive and go for Flash Kick. The Guile just played full ape throwing Flash kicks all over the place,but you didn't use cr.HP CC once, giving up a lot of damage. His gameplay convinced you to try to start jumping too much becoming predictable. Against V-Reversal happy opponents st.lk-grab works amazingly, cr.lp has less pushback,but less frame advantage oB. From a hitting st.lk you can confirm with cr.lp xxHozanto xxCA if you need damage or to close the round. Sometimes you was able to hit with your j.mk crossup, but instead of proceeding with cr.mp into combo you started with cr.lp losing the opportunity to take home the match. In YZ form sometimes is better using V-Reversal at the start of the round to keep your opponent at the bay, you gonna get VT later anyway. Once you get it you need to stop sliding too much, I did this fault myself sometimes, we become too predictable. The Guile player was way more worried than you was, you just didn't noticed that, can happen. I'm gonna watch the Cammy match now.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Ok,vs Cammy.

    You played too much 'calm' compared to the Guile match. Cammy b.mp is a showstopper,no surprise here, there's no character in the game able to jump at her without a dive move. With that in mind the only way to do that is jumping with j.hp looking to her face instead,we don't need a crossup. Her AA didn't work there,but you are in a perfect range for a dp, so think twice before going for it. I was able to count how many koku you did, just 5 at the start of any round. You was to afraid about keep with them because of can't aerial attacks. The solution here is using LK koku right out of her st.mk range, then using the normal able to stop Cammy ground and aerial attempts, st.mk. With that OZ is able to counter st.lk/st.mk with ease and punish cr.hp on whiff (you can use lk koku also, but it's risky),st.mk can stop every move targeting at your face,cr.hp is gdlk vs predictable jumps. If you get the CC here is a good idea going for the st.hp-flip reset, a perfect placed elbow leaves you at +4 if blocked, you could mix that up with the kick version. In the first match you had a good number of chance to kill Cammy with cr.mp into VT cancel,but you didn't get once. Cr.mp is slow,but is super good when w have V-meter,cr.mp xx VT,cr.mp xxVT,st.mp-st.mk-st.hp-st.hk-st.hp+hk is a quick ~300dmg punish,go for it once you have the chance.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Until now I had issues vs Akuma and Urien,mostly because my stubbornness to use YZ only mid match. Finally I decided to go ham since start limiting OZ to AAing possible jump ins at the very start of every round.
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 78
    I used to play like this, determining which Zeku was better for each MU... Recently, I've been experementing a more movement/stance switch heavy playstyle. It opened up a new way to play with more oportunities. I'm less predictable, opponents make more mistakes...
    Regarding the Guile MU, although I switch stance a lot, I had a lot of success with Old, mostly thanks to sl.lk buffered into lk koku. Stops Guile from throwing booms at a certain range, stop the infamous follow-ups after blocked booms mid-screen (st.fierce, back fist, knee bazooka) and recovers so fast that you have time to AA just in case.
    The hardest MU is Chun, mostly because she seems to low profile everything.
    I have a hard time against Laura too, but always had (mained Vega and Bison, tough).
    There are a couple match-up where I don't switch stance : zangief (old) and Dhalsim (young).
    But still, I really think that Zeku could use some buff here and there. Koku could be faster (I don't mind the recovery), Teki's hitbox shoud be improved upward (even with a good read on a jump-in, it often whiffs), jumping normals need a better hitbox/hurtbox ratio (for god sake, even Vega manages to AA him with st.lp), throw range should have a bit more range (0.85 ?), Young's st.mp could reach a bit further.... I hope there will be a S3.5 patch like past year.
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 923
    Yesterday I played a couple of sets against a Menat. Didn't really know what to do. She outranges you in old form, and keeps you out in young. I guess young is still better, but her dives are a pain to anti air
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,405
    Still have no answer for fang. Can’t jump at him and his stupid ground fireball keeps us from getting in. Tried to ex hozanto through multiple times but it doesn’t work unless you are decently far and he can just do ground fire bubble thing and then regular up fireballs and even if you make it through the stationary ground fireball you don’t make it through the upballs. Also constant,y getting my sweep CH in the matchup as well. YZ is all offense. He has zero defense.

    Zoning him with old doesn’t seem useful with his command dash being projectile invincible. And once in on YZ it’s a wrap cause you have no defense against him save for your slow ass v reversal that doesn’t seem to ever want to hit him.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    Ground fireballs trade with zeku special cancel slide
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • serpentaurusserpentaurus just watching Joined: Posts: 4,606
    once you get in, the pressure is insane, Fang doesnt have a 3f normal to stop zeku gap of 4f for s.MP > cr.MP at any range. And dont spend meter on hozanto, save ir for super
    umvc3: Thor / Dr.Strange / Ammy - Thor / Dorm / Doom - Wesker / Dr.Strange / Vergil - ssf4: Vega
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce Makoto, Capcom plz Joined: Posts: 3,843
    Los wrote: »
    Yesterday I played a couple of sets against a Menat. Didn't really know what to do. She outranges you in old form, and keeps you out in young. I guess young is still better, but her dives are a pain to anti air

    Best way to fight Menat is playing more lame than her. Once the orb is out just stay behind it,get closer when she recalls it. Once you're in range you can risk a jump in against an orbless Menat, but looking at how Dhalsim-like she is I don't mind playing with the timer against her. Her dives are exactly like Sim ones, you don't need to AA them, instead it's better getting hit by them since she has less advantage after.
    Dime wrote: »
    Still have no answer for fang. Can’t jump at him and his stupid ground fireball keeps us from getting in. Tried to ex hozanto through multiple times but it doesn’t work unless you are decently far and he can just do ground fire bubble thing and then regular up fireballs and even if you make it through the stationary ground fireball you don’t make it through the upballs. Also constant,y getting my sweep CH in the matchup as well. YZ is all offense. He has zero defense.

    Zoning him with old doesn’t seem useful with his command dash being projectile invincible. And once in on YZ it’s a wrap cause you have no defense against him save for your slow ass v reversal that doesn’t seem to ever want to hit him.

    No need for Hozanto vs Fang,you can walk under his poison balls. The V-Skill is useless,even being touched by doesn't harm us enough to be worried about. OZ can give Fang problems from far/mid ranges, then YZ can seal the deal. Under pressure Fang often use his V-Reversal to get out of the corners,just keep him there with meaty st.lk into grab, the latter catches Fang effortlessly. We have to pay attention on his plus oB normals, that's the problem against him.
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