Info on the Old School SF Scene?

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  • Judgment DayJudgment Day Disrupting Da Coronation Joined: Posts: 379
    Hmm...excellent, yet sad story. Like many others, it also reminds me of my home arcade in Michigan. That place was booming when I started going up there in '93 (SSF2 was out), and it went through the roof in when MK2 was released. After Killer Instinct in 94, the crowds dwindled, and Mainstreet Video finally closed in late 1997 :( Luckily, Mainstreet Video had 2 other establishments, but none were like the original; the one where everyone would hang out beyond gaming, have a good time, and take it to the next level. The arcade that created

    --Judgment Day
    Judgment Day: PsychoBison, Rated [R]


    http://www.mayn-event.com
  • PKPK Joined: Posts: 9
    wow... some good reads.. i'll have to spend some time in here... but my first memory of SF was in Sharpstown arcade (houston, tx). by that time they had taken out the big smash 'em up buttons and replaced them with the legendary 6-button layout. I couldn't understand why no one used the hurricane kick. the scrubs like myself would wait our turn and call, "no fb and no uppercuts ok?!" hell, i was like 12 at the time. i had to skill. so the guy was like, "ok" and preceeded to whooop me with the hurricane kick. d.fierce wasn't around then. damn, that game sucked, but it looked really cool. like something out of the fly'n kung fu movie scene. very cool. then one day at Fun Plex (also Houston, TX) there were 20 guys standing around one machine. My friend Greg and I desided to check it out and that's when i first saw it, SF2. an older college age guy was on 2nd player using Z of all ppl. I loved wrestling and so i gave it a shot. when it was my turn to get up there (after a short 15 game wait), the original Z guy was still champ. was i worried? hell no!!! i was only 13. at 13, nothing scares you... so i didn't think there was that much to this game... big brawly characters and a girl... hhmm... i'll go with Z, i love wrestling.... i most i got off a couple of fierces but the guy just SPD me to death... i was amazed... so i hung out, didn't want to wasted my money losing to this guy so i just watched.... "how do u do that?" i asked... he said, "just watch my hands" all i saw was him spinning the joystick... hhmm... to think about it, that messed up my SPD abillity for a LONG time.... asshole... but that was the first move i learned... i couldn't do it... but i knew how to do it... soon i became a Dalsim master... soon as in SF time line.. it was 2 years later that started to actually realized the full potential of all the characters... Blanka's cball was the first move i pulled off... everyone was like, "wow! how did you do that?!" and "how do you do this?!" that was the first couple of years of SF2.. answering questions on how to do a move or how to pull off a combo (revolutionary at the time). i used to love beating guys with Guile's standing jab, if done fast enough you can redizzy them just with the standing jab. unballanced. bad shound. highly addictive. it saved the arcade, gave the SNES the extra boost over the competition, and started a cult.. damn, i love that game... OH BTW, you can play SF2Turbo and down at DAVE AND BUSTER'S in Houston!!! it's soo funn doing the drunk'n monkey and handcuffs again!!!
    Welcome to PK's world...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Reading this thread makes me realize a few things....

    Fighting games, no matter how complex the engine is, no matter how feverent the fans, are a niche market and their fans will never compare in numbers to fans of other types of games.

    A lot of that has to do with the advent of Home consoles gaining popularity. No longer did you have to go into those musty, smokey-filled halls instead you could play games in the comfort of your own home.

    SF was unique in that it gave the Arcades a view into what they could become and opened the doorway for Fighting games to burst onto the scene. It also allowed other companies to literally survive and lay strong foundations.

    It forms a link from the old Ghosts N Goblins to Resident Evil: Zero and Steel Battalion.

    SF was unique and for that I don't think it will ever get enough credit.

    PS. I was one of the few people that LIKED Alpha1 when it came out. Super Turbo to me was really the last gasp if you will of a tired franchise. When I saw and played Alpha, I saw it held the promise of what SF could become, a more 'complete' version of the game that most of us spent our youths learning.

    For that I am also grateful.
  • urkangijordiurkangijordi Spelled UrkAngiJordi Joined: Posts: 90
    Wanna talk about an old school player, look no further. Maybe I am not the best player, but I do have an SF2 story.

    My first experience with Street Fighter was SF1at my then favorite arcade, the Time Out of Laurel Center Mall. This arcade, like many of the ones I am about to mention are gone and faded, as is the SF2 days. Street Fighter 1 I played once. I didn't like Street Fighter 1. I did love going to the arcade and I love Capcom games, mostly for graphics. When I use to work at the mall I went there to play other games (Out Run, Turbo Out Run, Shinobi, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles). I'd seen new games get popular and fade out. When TMNT came out, dozens of little kids would crowd around it, dumping money faster than a drunk billionaire in a casino. But for the most part, my infatuation for video games was mostly a solo experience. I had maybe 2 friends who I played Genesis games with. The John Madden Football would introduce me to my first real competitive experience. But this was at someone's house, not in the arcade. You go in to the arcade and play, and then you go home.

    It's funny, when I worked at the mall; I went to the arcade all the time. But when that job ended, I couldn't get to the mall (no car, not yet) and I missed a great deal of the games that came out around late 1990-1992 in the arcades. But I did read EGM and I did love Capcom. The first pics of SF2 in EGM (March 1991 if memory serves me) got me fired up. I wanted to see it, but I needed to find one, and get a ride. I heard there was one at another mall (Annapolis Aladdin's Castle) and convinced my best friend at the time to drive me down to Annapolis just so I could see this game (June 1991).

    I didn't like it. There were too many buttons, the cabinet was a horrible conversion (I would later realize that the game got better when converted correctly) and it was damn hard. Or maybe it was damn confusing. But I did love the trademark Capcom graphics and the floor parallaxing blew my mind. I went away disappointed and would not see SF2 again until I trekked back to Laurel later that summer.

    I went to Time Out and saw many new and different games, but the main attraction at the front of the 'cade was an SF2. I watched a guy playing it (he was an Asian guy named Thomas, I kid you not) and he was playing the game using Zangief. I saw SPD and many cool throws that really brought me into the game. I couldn't believe how much you could do with a big dopey character like Zangief. My bud looked at it but he didn't seem all that interested. So I sunk my money into the game against Thomas. I chose the one character that was destined to be my pick until ST...Ken Masters. I liked his red gi.

    I didn't like the ass kicking I got.

    I played SF2 for like $10 and lost EVERY TIME. This Thomas fellow threw me left and right. I got hammered and embarrassed. I was upset and gave up, vowing never to touch that horrible game again.

    Fate would change in December of 1991. I would get a car. Now I was a true high school senior, and more importantly... I could get back to Laurel Center Mall and play more games...Yay! My first instinct was not to go back to SF2. I remembered the brutal beating I got at it and I wanted to play something else. But when I walked into the Time Out, crowded around the SF2 machine were about 20 guys and one woman. I played other stuff, and heard the banter from the SF2 machine. My curiosity got the better of me. I watched as a Guile player systematically destroyed everyone at SF2 he fought. He was not Thomas but was still beating everyone. He had long dirty blonde hair and had a sort of laid back, rock attitude about him. He played several others who I would later get to know and befriend. As I watched, people played everyone, there were several Ryus, a Honda, a female Chun Li, and a Blanka by a blonde 12 year old named Andrew . They were not only playing a game together, but also competing. The competition aspect of the SF community is what hooked me.

    I went to other arcades I knew of like the Champions of Columbia Mall, a small hole in the wall at Security Mall, and an arcade in the now gone Harundale Mall. There was comp at Columbia, but the machine was a small 13in conversion where you had to be huddling your competition to play. Security Mall was highly competitive, but I was a lamer no thrower and they threw. They also comboed much better than the Laurel crowd. In the end though, Laurel remained my place of choice.

    I began to play SF2 and take my bruises. I met many, many people who also like SF2 and I could talk strategy and tactics with. The most prominent players there was the longhaired Guile player, a Ryu player named Joshua, and Lil Andrew who eventually learned Dhalsim very well and dumped Blanka. I also ran into a player who went to high school with me previously named Jazz. He brought the flare of combos from downtown Baltimore to Laurel. I did learn a lot, like what a special move was and how to block, but by the time May 1992 came, the attention had shifted to the new SF2...

    Champion Edition

    Laurel was not very quick in getting Champion Edition. I had to drive south towards DC to University of Maryland in College Park. There was a 24-hour laundry mat with a Champion Edition in a dedicated Capcom competition cabinet. As I approached the blue machine with the double sized Champion Edition I saw lots of players. There was a crowd that I have never seen the likes of again...ever (outside a tournament). There must have been at least 30 people in line with more just trying to watch. Joshua was there as well as a few others. I got to play one time that day. I loved the changes to Ken, but lost to fast and didn't really want to wait another hour to try it again. At this time my focus changed from Laurel (due to late CE) to Columbia who had a nice Capcom dedicated cabinet. It was like vindication for all those scrunched SF2WW matches before. I finally understood combinations and crossovers. I was getting better and I also met a guy there who would eventually become a really good friend years later. Columbia was a no-throw arcade as well and many, many Guile grudges were settled within the first few weeks of CE being available.

    At the time of Champion Edition's era beginning in MD, a new mall opened called Marley Station Mall. It was another Champions Arcade like Columbia but with shiny new equipment, and 2 Champion Editions. In MD it was unheard of having 2 of a game of any kind in an arcade outside of Ocean City. Both were also big dedicated cabinets and there were all kinds of new comp for me to play. The most prominent and memorable of the new comp was a player named Andrew. He was easily the most prominent player there playing with an unorthodox 'crossed-handed' style with his controls. He played with an intelligence that I would not see surpassed for many years. He could play anybody, was very good at mixing up his patterns and reading everybody else. I also met another player who would become a good friend of mine named Lord Zor. He was simply put, extremely good at finding powerful strategies for every character. While Andy played Ken, Zor played Zangief. There was also another Zangief player who was really good (and the brother of a friend of a friend), and finally a wacky combo nut named Vince. These guys would become somewhat kindred over the years as I began realizing the wide spread popularity and diversity of SF2 at that time. Marley Station was now my home base beyond all others. I played SF there clear thru Hyper Fighter.

    During the Champion Edition era, Marley Station had a tournament. The first video game tournament I had ever been to was there. The idea of a tournament was unusual to people but many, many players came from as far as Springfield VA. This tournament was the first time I realized there were much higher levels of skills at SF. I met for the first time a notoriously good player at that time named Lance. He showed everyone the first five hit double sonic boom combo. Hailing from downtown Baltimore, a place that at the time if I had known about, I would have become MUCH better at SF. Imagine a 24 hour arcade with lines on 3 machines. It had Infinite comp, with greasy, iffy sticks. He and Jazz played there often, but Lance was clearly much better than anyone at that tournament. The Virginia players brought us the Sagat uppercut glitch (allowing Vince to learn to uppercut before the low fireball finished recovering, creating a monster). I lost so fast it wasn't funny, but I did learn a great deal for the first time since my early days in Laurel Center. I had finally mastered almost all skills except predictability. I learned of an arcade down the road in Severna Park that was open late with SF comp.

    ..more to come...
    My username is actually spelled UrkAngiJordi (Pronounced Urk-Angee-Jordee)
    Ken and Mai are my favorite characters.
    Favorite fighting game franchises. Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Capcom VS SNK 2
  • urkangijordiurkangijordi Spelled UrkAngiJordi Joined: Posts: 90
    ...con't

    SF comp was everywhere, and I loved it. As Hyper Fighting had made its appearance, I was in bliss with Ken's new air hurricane abilities. But at this time players were going to other fighters...namely Mortal Kombat. As the steam died down, MK rose in popularity, and my ridged loyalty for SF2 prevented me from trying MK seriously. So I watched as the comp dwindled and my games were against a few repeat players at Marley.

    During the time of Super Street Fighter 2 I had blew the engine in my car. I couldn't go anywhere and missed out on the SSF2 at Marley for quite a while. Not that I cared, Super's slow speed felt like a fatal mistake to me, and I didn't really like the slow game. I did however love Cammy. She would begin my many years of 'Goddess Worshipper' (you may have to look up some old posts in alt.games.sf2 for the definition to that one folks ^_-) and I would start to try other games like Samurai Showdown, and King of Fighters. Still nothing really compared to SF to me, and the dying comp scene depressed me somewhat. Before SF I didn't care about comp and community and such, but since then, going into an arcade and not seeing someone I knew seemed wrong now.

    Super Street Fighter 2 would also bring me up to another new arcade in Security Mall. Woolworths of all companies owned this place. However the supplier was Maryland mega distributor State Sales...so it got a constant rotation of new games, just no technical support. But still an arcade was an arcade so I went there too. But comp was thinner than ever, and SSF2 was killing my flame.

    Sometime in 1994 I think, Capcom released one more Street Fighter 2. Now up to this point I was completely naive about the world stage of SF2. This would be the SF that changed my life and showed me my goal for the future. In Annapolis of all places, where my first exposure to SF2 began, I would come across Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. The game that is played by many, respected the most of all SF2 games, and would have the longest legs (it is now what 7-8 years old?), I played and loved it. I didn't like New Ken too much, but Cammy was really cool now. So I played Old Ken and New Cammy. As SSF2T got to Marley, the old crowd returned as well as some new faces that I am proud to call friend (Hey F2Billards =). Super pushed our skill limits and more importantly, gave me an idea.

    I tried to start a club called the Fighter's Guild (before I knew of the internet, I tried to do the club thing the old fashion way). As I met more faces and became a sort of known locally not for my skill, but my dedication to trying to create and unify the SF community in MD. I also met a man in Security Mall named Alex, who helped me learn why you don't run a game club like a boxing organization (Don King anyone). After I let go of the Fighter's Guild I began wondering something. Marley at the time of SSF2T was the best in MD at the time. I was not, but some of my friends were great, and super egotistical about it. They would talk about how cheap each other was, and how great they were. I was not convinced. I wanted to see how good people could get.

    I issued a challenge on alt.games.sf2. I just wanted to meet new players, but Jazz (who plays DeeJay and will remind you of that fact every chance he gets) figured we would get a better response if we talk some smack. I wanted the Fighter's Guild to be about community but when Jazz talked up our game on the post, we got a response from Hampton VA (Hey Kris). They came up and not only were our side not prepared for the incredible skill difference between them and us (the Horsemen of Hampton killed us so bad), but the egos of the local clan sort of died out and I began to see how far and how deep SF2 has always been. I realized that the community between SF players was global, arcade based, and very talented. Beyond anything I could ever do with my experiences. My curiosity was fueled more. I wanted to go to more places so I went down to Hampton to have my ass handed to me some more. I saw Zangief dominate Guile and all kinds of things I thought werent possible. To play a game for almost 4 years and still realize there were levels higher to achieve got me going again. I even went to New York and lost to the greats like Seth Killian, the turtling Joel and Sam, and even played Tom Cannon once (he played Chun Li), when Boardwalk was still around.

    As I grew away from SF, the Alpha came to be, and the skill and shift of comp went down to Gametime. It's amazing that when SF2 was around; there were arcades and comp everywhere. Now in Baltimore there are much fewer arcades with even less fighting games (unless you like Tekken...Bleh). I still miss it, and I wish I could go down to Gametime and compete more. The drive is like an hour and now I just want an arcade in Baltimore for competition again...

    I was there when it began, and I am still there. Some people on the boards may not remember me to much but I a great deal of memories and friends from SF and the fighting game community. I will never be the same again.
    My username is actually spelled UrkAngiJordi (Pronounced Urk-Angee-Jordee)
    Ken and Mai are my favorite characters.
    Favorite fighting game franchises. Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Capcom VS SNK 2
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Speaking of good SF2 players back in the day, there was this guy I used to know his name was Elika. I miss this guy to death. He died in a car accident a few years ago, when Alpha 2 was the rage. But Elika was the only player I know on the level of Thomas Osaki. He once came to our house to play some SF2:WW on SNES, and his playing was so incredible...he could successfully do combos and link special moves while your character is stunned, like if he was using Guile, he'd hit you with a Sonic Boom, and while you're stunned and the game is slowing down, he jumps at you and finishes the combo with a flash kick, I mean giving you NO chance to recover. Or other than that he could throw more than one sonic boom all at once, I mean with that charging method he was good at beating the odds the slowdown could bring.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Alright, Junior, step aside and let an old man tell you what Street Fighter was REALLY like. This story, like any good one, began in a 7-11 in Glendale, CA The local 7-11, actually, just three convenient blocks from my junior high and high school. Every day after school, I visited the 7-11 for a few hours and flexed my arcade might on the latest and greatest arcade games, and boy were there many great ones Shinobi, Double Dragon, Ninja Turtles the list goes on and on. But one of them I will never forget - the game that changed my life Street Fighter 2.

    It was an ordinary day and an ordinary game. I thought nothing of it. Six buttons? Certainly a novelty, but I had no idea how special this game was. The first character I picked was Blanka.

    Here was the reasoning:
    Ryu I never picked the default character. Status quo was for the weak.
    Ken Tempting, but a little too generic.
    E. Honda Fat guy? No thanks.
    Chun Li I aint no girl.
    Blanka Savage green animal sign me up!
    Zangief Big hulking wrestler dude, aww hell no!
    Guile Good, clean, all-american guy. Probably was the high school football captain. He would be my second choice.
    Dhalsim Interesting but what was the last game you played (remember this is 1991) where a Hindu was the best?

    I asked a friend how you did the ball, and the rest is history. I walked backwards and literally balled my way to victory against computer and human opponents alike. Most people hadnt figured out how to block, and luckily, my walking backwards technique provided a natural defense against the errant fireball that would eek out from some button mashers wild gyrations.

    In time, I grew to love the fierce and roundhouse buttons. They provided a nice bang for the buck and were obviously the weapons of choice for the adept Street Fighter player. These were the two buttons that you used, just like all the other arcade games. The other 4 buttons were gimmicks.

    Over the next few days, word spread of how to do special moves, and new ones were discovered regularly. Ken and Ryus spin kick and fireball became staples of their arsenal. Guile players now had the choice of crouching and razor kicking or walking backwards and sonic booming. These tactics were generally adequate enough to frustrate non-blocking opponents into a desperate jumping charge of futile offense. A jumping opponent is a dead opponent. Remember that, Junior.

    Then one day, I was playing the computer and the typical large crowd had gathered, hoping to get a glimpse of an ending. My walking backwards technique was sadly bested by M. Bison and his Great Roundhouse of Death. As the crowd began to disperse, a stranger approached me and put a quarter in my hand. Finish the game, he said. Id never seen him before, as he wasnt a regular among the video game crowd I was used to. But who am I to refuse an offer of free money? So I continued and the crowd returned. This time, I didnt mess around. Once I knocked M. Bison down, I was on him with my scathing Electricity of Death. Payback for the humiliation just handed to me. M. Bison succumbed to my manly button-pounding fury, and the crowd was treated to Jimmys tearjerking ending.

    As a new game started up, the stranger tried his hand at some versus competition and promptly got his ass handed to him. From the pitiful play of his Chun Li, I could tell he had never played an arcade game before, so I stepped in and avenged his death. Over the next few days, he kept coming back and getting better and better and better until he could beat me. He must have been practicing during off-peak hours when nobody was around. Here was a video game virgin who put in the time and money to get good at a game. Training, if you will, for the video game equivalent of Bloodsport.

    By now, I began to notice changes. People were not losing interest in this game, like all its other arcade predecessors. Instead of being a passing novelty, like the next Robocop/Bad Dudes/Superman game, this game is gaining in popularity over time. In fact, the crowds of spectators was growing. A pecking order also started to develop at the 7-11, as the good players gained reputations and regularly dominated for streaks of 7-10+ wins in a row.

    Myself and my newfound friend, Vahe, rose to the top of this local pecking order. We made the ideal dynamic duo. Me, the young 17-year-old with lots of free time and highly refined arcade skills. He, the much older 22, had the maturity, brains, money, and, more importantly, transportation (a car!).

    After establishing our position as the Godfather of the local 7-11, we realized that there were other arcades, 7-11s and liquor stores out there where we could prove our Street Fighter superiority. Taking Vahes car, we journeyed around town in search of Street Fighter competition (this was an absurd idea back in 1991). The next stop Pinball Plus in Burbank. This was the hangout for the local Burbank high school kids. They were pretty good too, but again, we dominated the competition.

    Eventually, we grew to know every backwoods mom and pop doughnut shop, 7-11, and arcade that had a Street Fighter machine in town. We had an imaginary map in our head of the town and the nearest Street Fighter machine, scouting each regularly for competition.

    Then one day, I was in the Video West arcade, just blocks from the Glendale Galleria. There is this asian older guy (30 something) on the machine holding center court and dominating fools like nobodys business. Hes sitting cross-legged over a stool and smoking while taking out the trash (players that I considered good). Hes playing Zangief, and he has full command of the mysterious Spinning Piledriver. Hes doing it on demand, grabbing people from 3 inches away, jumping on them, and doing it again. Id never seen anything like it.

    This is back before the Internet was big, when knowledge was power. My first introduction to the SPD was a brutal one, as he routinely demolished myself and the local Glendale competition. I tried everyone: Chun Li, Guile, Ryu, Dhalsim, E.Honda everybody. He won over 40 matches in a row before growing tired and leaving.

    My visions of the world were shattered. That was and still is the worst beating Ive ever taken in my Street Fighter career. I was not the best. No matter how good I was at the local 7-11, there was someone out there better than me. That knowledge fueled my desire for revenge and to be the best. I went back to the 7-11 to train some more and become a fine-tuned killing machine.

    By now, all the moves had been figured out, except for one: Ryus all-you-can.

    One day, I walked into Pinball Plus, and there was one guy on the machine who was kicking ass and taking names. Watching him play, my jaw dropped as he regularly threw fireballs and did the all-you-can on command!

    I asked him how he did it, but he refused to tell me. I kept watching his hands and mimicking the movement on another machine until I got my first uppercut. Eventually, I narrowed down the possibilities till I had it figured out: forward, offensive crouch, forward flip, back to forward, hit Fierce all in one quick motion. By the end of the day, I could all-you-can on command! on 1-player side only (but most people didnt know this).

    So Vahe and I took our newfound knowledge back to the 7-11 the next day and dazzled onlookers with our all-you-can prowess. If only Id had this weapon against that damned Zangief player
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Weeks later, I was going about my day, business as usual, slapping down the local competition while my mind was on autopilot I wonder how long it will take to do my homework? Should I buy that new Guns N Roses CD? My train of thought was interrupted when Vahe came in and started babbling. He was so excited, he was tripping over his words.

    Dude! I played this guy. Hes the best player Ive ever seen. He uses Guile and he demolished my Ryu. He was doing this backhand!

    The backhand? That move sucks! Youre smoking crack. How could you get hit by that?

    No no. I would throw fireballs and he would hit me while my arms were stuck out. <imitates Ryus fireball pose>

    At this point, I was still in disbelief that:
    1) There was a guy who was THAT good that he could destroy my invulnerable buddy.
    2) He was using walking-backwards-to-sonic-boom or crouching-to-razor-kick Guile to dominate like that.
    3) He could hit someone with the backhand. Who uses that?!

    But then Vahe dropped the hammer: This guy was throwing sonic booms while sitting down! This was another one of those life-changing moments in which comprehension dawned and I reached an epiphany of video game thinking. Up until this point, we had treated Street Fighter like any other arcade game out there: 4 directions 4 choices. But this was an 8 direction stick. Why not try a diagonal?

    Hands shaking, I selected Guile and held defensive crouch and tried throwing a Sonic Boom. Oh my god I tried a razor kick from the same position Hot damn! I was beginning to believe.

    So tell me more about this backhand. He does it when youre in the fireball pose?

    Yeah, and I couldnt block it.

    We proceeded to figure out, piece by piece, the ingredients for my friends public dismantling. We were part mad scientist/part mystery detective re-enacting the murder of my best friend. Vahe would fireball and I would match it with a sonic boom, then backhand.

    You couldnt block that?

    No! he said, excited with glee.

    I then grilled him for more details about his weekend trip. Apparently, he had gone to Pak-Mann arcade in Pasadena and played this kid named Tomo, who kicked his ass.

    By now, we were beginning to realize that Street Fighter was developing a community a hierarchy even. Every town was crowning local players who they deemed the best. Names were popping up and reputations were spreading. This Tomo was apparently the champion of Pasadena. I had to meet the guy.

    Like a video game bounty hunter, I tracked down the details of his playing times and habits by questioning people whod played him. There were surprisingly many.

    The Guile guy? Yeah, he plays on Friday and Saturday night at Pak-Mann. Go around after 10PM. That guy is GOOD! Vahe and I circled the next Saturday on our calendar. The anticipation was like a world championship boxing match. The showdown was set to begin.
  • UltimaUltima Whipped Joined: Posts: 1,686 ✭✭
    A couple things:

    Concerning the general death of Street Fighter, I think there were 3 main factors:

    1) Arcade Super SF2 - No doubt about it, this killed the interest in new SF in my country. Awful voices, the new characters were shitty, and TOO SLOW. Very few places got it, and NO ONE played it after the first week or so. Every one went back to playing HF (and I should note that people STILL play HF to this day, but that's another story).

    2) Street Fighter the Movie - This pretty much made SF a laughing stock in the general gaming community. Now you couldn't mention "SF" without thinking about this horrible, horrible movie.

    3) SNES SSF2 - The final nail in the coffin. Super Turbo had been released by this time, and there was definitely a lot of interest in it around here. However, no arcade seemed to get it (and none did until LONG afterwards), so the thought of a home version was a comfort. And while Capcom did release a home version that improved on the arcade, it just wasn't enough. SSF2 with more speed wasn't ST. Many of us saw absolutely no reason to buy this game and play it over HF, and our interest in new SF games was killed for a very long time. Alpha 1 came out in one place, and I thikn only two people played it (me and my friend). I remember the machine breaking one week when we played it, and when we came back the following week, it as exactly the same. I guess no one had played the game in that time to report that it was broken.

    Anyhow, that's my view on what ended the golden age of SF. MKII had a big hand, but I think if Capcom had made SSF2 a much better game (i.e. ST), MKII poularity (much of whic came at SF2['s expense) wouldn't have been as high (and rightfully so).

    Anyway, I have my own old school stories, but I won't repost my longass rambling tirades here. You can check them out on the following link. It's my arcade history in general, so there are some other games that are mentioned, but 90% of it centers around SF in some fashion. Since I grew up in another country, I can't name drop any of the old legends like Tomo or anything, but don't mind that. :)

    http://www.rit.edu/~jas2842/uramble/history_arcade.html

    Oh yeah, to the person that said it: The original SF2 guide from Gamepro isn't any good, but the second one that dealt with HF and preview SSF2 was - and still is - a great book. That was where I first learned the concept of deep hits and started pulling off combos for real. It may have been from Gamepro, but it as masterminded by Matt Tyler, who also orchestrated VS. Books and the SFA2 guide, the best US fighting game strategy guide ever made.
    Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Saturday afternoon, we warmed up our skills by destroying the locals at Pinball Plus. An appetizer for the main course to come. Then we got in the car and cruised down to Pasadena. This was pretty absurd if you stopped to think about it. Me, a 17-year-old kid getting in the car with some stranger I barely knew, and us going on the freeway to travel to another town in hopes of possibly meeting this reputed good player at a video game. But with Street Fighter 2, anything was possible

    When I first arrived at Pak-Mann, I was dumbfounded. Id been to the arcade before: its about a block long and filled with row up on row of arcade machines from past, present, and future. What was surprising was the row of 10 Street Fighter machines and the crowd of people surrounding them. I didnt have to see the marquee to know what game everyone was playing and excitedly talking about. There were so many people that they had to put a few of the machines in another row so the crowd wouldnt get too clumped in one area.

    I put my quarter up and waited through a line of three people. By the time I drew first blood, I knew I belonged. My Chun Li was one of the better ones out there. My Blanka wasnt too shabby either. The stream of players kept coming, a regular and steady flow of more meat for the grinder. But this isnt what I came here for. I had plenty of newbies back home to beat up. I wanted the Man himself.

    Scoping the aisles of machines, my friend pointed him out. There he is. I stood and watched as he dismantled opponent after opponent. Nobody could take a round off of him. Tomo looked like an average, unassuming Asian kid. But the way he was playing was anything but ordinary.

    He was doing combos. Jumping Forward, low Jab, Razor Kick. Dizzy. Jumping Fierce, low Strong, Razor Kick. Dead. I had no idea what combos were. I just saw people dying REALLY fast. Like 10 seconds and the round was over. It was pretty scary. I didnt know why they werent blocking the second and third hits.

    I dropped in my quarter and lost first round badly to a dizzy combo. I looked at the controller as if defensive crouch didnt work. I cant block that?

    No. He laughed. I almost won second round due to my unorthodox Chun Li play and some timely throws, but he pulled it out. I proceeded to wait in line and continually get schooled by his Guile.

    I didnt realize it at the time, but Tomo wasnt just playing the game. He was creating it as he went along. He wasnt sticking to any simple fireball-uppercut pattern. He was faking, feinting, constantly doing something to throw you off, testing new moves. While you were thinking of the next move, he was thinking three moves down the line. While I was a follower learning traps and patterns, he was creating them.

    As I was waiting in line, a guy came around and handed me a flyer. His name was Charles and he was holding a tournament at some comic book shop called Worlds Finest Comics.

    A video game tournament?! Are you serious? Never before had the idea been mentioned. But now that I thought about it, it made sense. Here was my shot at a real-life Bloodsport. Vahe and I knew we had to go to this.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    The fateful Saturday rolls around and we head down to Pico Rivera. Worlds Finest Comics, the locale where Tomo and company hung out, played, strategized, talked, and generally grew into the #1 Street Fighter community in the U.S. The tournament was about 30 people or so. The turnout was considered a success, and Charles announced that he would hold another one in 3 weeks.

    I didnt make top 10, but I didnt care. I was there to learn, and learn I did. How to combo. The latest combos. Redizzy combos. Corner traps. Fireball traps. Trap counters. How to throw. How to reverse.

    Every three weeks, Vahe and I would go to Worlds Finest for these SF tournaments. We went as much to compete as to amass knowledge like a sponge. And then bring back the latest tricks of the trade to our local arcade to whip ass on the newbies.

    Worlds Finest wasnt just the site of a video game tournament. It was a place for SF experts to gather, be accepted, and share tales of their local arcades. It was a place where the newest and most effective combos, strategies, and glitches could be displayed, analyzed, and countered. The In & Out burger restaurant across the street was the source for our daily sustenance, drinks, and a secondary hangout - our home away from home.

    Gradually, the pecking order of Worlds Finest developed. There was the Big Four and everyone else. The Big Four were Tomo Ohira, Roger Chung, Tony Tsui, and Willy (Lee?). They were in a class by themselves, playing at another level from everyone else. The reason they were grouped together like that is because the other three were the only ones who could beat Tomo, although he ended up winning most of the tournaments.

    As time progressed, people realized that not all characters were created equally. Guile emerged as the best, and the only character who could stood a chance against him was Dhalsim. Every tournament came down to Guile and Dhalsim fighting in the finals and semi-finals.

    Vahe was a real student of the game. He could sit back and watch people play, dissecting what they were doing to win. What traps worked and how to get out of them. Every move had a counter. Every technique had an answer.

    His problem was he didnt have the reflexes and coordination to pull off the latest combos as they were invented. So he took me under his wing as his student. He told me what to do and when to do it. What countered what and the latest strategies. Living vicariously through me, he was training a lean, mean, fighting machine.

    After a couple tournaments, the Guile/Dhalsim fight was expected. It became like an elaborate dance to the death, with new moves added every week. It evolved. First Dhalsim started with standing Fierce to push people back, then Fireball, standing Forward. Then people changed it to Fireball, standing Fierce to push them back and get damage when they jumped. Then people found out Fireball, low fierce had more priority. Then it became Fireball, low Roundhouse slide when they jumped, Yoga Flame as they got up, standing Fierce, repeat. Fireball, close-range standing forward. Fireball, jump back Fierce. Drill (Yoga Mummy), throw. Noogie, standing Strong, Noogie some more. Yoga Flame, throw (in the corner). The variations were endless.

    Every week changes were made to the choreography, and if you didnt keep up on the latest moves and the appropriate counter, you would succumb to them. It became like homework in Street Fighter school to memorize the latest tactics. And believe me, school was in session.

    By this time, I was becoming an elite SF player. I knew all the strategies for destroying any non-Guile/Dhalsim characters with either Guile or Dhalsim. People I didnt know, didnt scare me. I began placing top 10 at Worlds Finest, as the homework and practice began to pay off. I still couldnt beat the Big Four when it counted, but I would make them earn it.

    At this point, playing at my local 7-11 was no longer satisfying. Local scrubs were stifling my growth, dulling my skills, and providing false confidence. I only wanted to play at Worlds Finest, where the true challenge lay. Every three weeks, I would go to the tournaments and get schooled by 3 weeks worth of new ideas and strategies. It was difficult trying to improvise counter strategies on the fly, but I tried and loved every second of it.

    Between tournaments, Vahe and I would scour Los Angeles, looking for hotbeds of hidden SF talent. Searching for a backwoods pizza place with a local prodigy who might have some tricks we could use.

    I became like a talent scout. I would go to foreign arcades and just watch how the locals played. If their technology (the moves and patterns they were using) wasnt up to snuff, I wouldnt even bother wasting a quarter to beat them. When I was out with my girlfriend, we would walk by an arcade and she would know we had to go inside to see what people were doing.

    By the way, the one time I brought my girlfriend to Worlds Finest (boys, never bring your girlfriend to a video game tournament. Shell be bored out of her mind.), I won the tournament, beating Tomo in the Finals. One of the high points of my SF career.

    Eventually, we realized that we had scouted all there was to scout. There was no more hidden talent in LA. The best places to play were Pak Mann in Pasadena, College Arcade across the street from LACC (LA Community College), and Worlds Finest in Pico Rivera. By now, we knew everybody at these places on a first name basis.

    Do you believe in pre-destination? It exists in video games. If you dropped a quarter in a machine and challenged me, and I didnt know your name, you already lost. There was no doubt. Your fate was pre-determined. You just wasted 25 cents funding my gaming habit for the next minute.

    When I spent three hours a day, seven days a week presiding over the scrubs at my local arcades and doing my homework regularly at Worlds Finest for the latest tricks of the trade, there was no way a stranger could win. It just didnt happen. Ever.

    Oh there were guys that talked smack. Lots of them. You gotta play my friend at Street Fighter. Hes sooooooo good. You dont know how many times I heard that.

    But the end result was always the same. Unless I knew you and practiced against you regularly, you didnt beat me. Not even a round. The people who could beat you became like family. Your peers. Your comp. What made you better. What pushed you further. What made you innovate.

    My comrades and I played through all sorts of conditions. Walk into an arcade no defensive crouch. No problem. Ill pick Ryu and uppercut through the fireballs. Spin kick to the other side and play footsie. Broken controls werent a deterrent, they were a handicap which we overcame. Roundhouse doesnt work all the time. Time to play Dhalsim.

    Only two buttons work.
    Is one of them punch?
    Yes.
    Zangief.

    I would play matches using only one button - jab. I would play one-handed: one hand on the joystick and the same hand on buttons (and yes, you can still fireball/uppercut that way). I could literally beat people with one hand behind my back. Buddies would share rounds. Sometimes, we would play together. My friend would do joystick, I would do buttons and we could fireball trap (with fakes) and uppercut opponents without verbal communication. Great minds think alike? Sometimes I would be bored and let people take off more than half my life, then magically turn it on and demolish them without taking any damage. It was sick.

    So it was established Pico Rivera was where the best Street Fighter players in Los Angeles played. But how did LA compare to the rest of the world? We were about to find out as we took our first trip outside LA in search of the true World Warrior
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
  • jcasetnljcasetnl nachos.posterous.com Joined: Posts: 145
    Eggo, dude, speak the lore.

    <tips his hat>

    To move forward, remember the past...

    With eternal vigilance the old skool will never die...

    - j
  • Storming FlowerStorming Flower Top player hater Joined: Posts: 617
    with this talk about og sf, im trying to learn guile. can one of you guys help me on the guile vs ryu matchup HF, the gameplan and strategy, like followups and setups after booms..im only 17 but i played this 24 year old og player and i would come so close to beating his ryu with my ryu but when i go to guile i completely lose, and his guile beats down on both my guys but i still don't really know how to play guile.
  • jcasetnljcasetnl nachos.posterous.com Joined: Posts: 145
    Originally posted by Storming Flower
    with this talk about og sf, im trying to learn guile. can one of you guys help me on the guile vs ryu matchup HF, the gameplan and strategy, like followups and setups after booms..im only 17 but i played this 24 year old og player and i would come so close to beating his ryu with my ryu but when i go to guile i completely lose, and his guile beats down on both my guys but i still don't really know how to play guile.

    It's all about the mind game. I already said it, but, make that charge time dissapear. Put the pressure on. Use his thrusting knee to close the distance and keep the pressure on. Use the range of his crouching normals to your advantage. You can always counter his wiff roundhouse with a low forward. Learn the walk-unders, the wiffs, etc. to set him up and take him down. It's really quite easy when you get feel of it.

    Shotos, except the very best, are easy to contol with Guile. Just shut them down. Distance and positioning are the key. Just get in close to him, get in his face, and learn from there.

    Good luck - j
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
  • Storming FlowerStorming Flower Top player hater Joined: Posts: 617
    j: thanks for replying i read your post on shinakuma too when you talked about the walk unders, but im still trying to figure it out. Right its like im developing a pattern of slow boom, walk forward, down forward twice, then boom again (if they jump im screwed), or continue down jabbing before boom but if they jump while im jabbing then FK. (that gets weak but not sure what else to do)

    sometimes they jump and i walk under and throw from other side. or low boom knee boom again. i'll use the other booms like fierce to give myself room when they throw fireball so i can walk foward. that's all i basically do...(not a good sign) I mean in ST he has those new kicks so i can use him but he seems more limited in HF, , what about corner traps..i'll just keep practicing
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Back in the day... (LONG!)

    Let me begin by sending mad shouts out to jcasetnl

    It is jcasetnl's recounting of the lore tales of yesteryear that has brought me out of retirement and to my keyboard this afternoon.

    For the first time in over a decade he has called upon me to share my experiences with what I consider to be the greatest arcade game of all time. Dare I say the greatest videogame of all time...? Street Fighter II.

    "Dude...what should I say?! Whats left to add?!" I asked...

    "Damn TONY.... speak the lore already... these fools need to know about the next level!" he replied impatiently

    I sat down to read the posts to see where my SF brothers stand. Just reading through the thread brought about an influx of old skool memories

    Memories of a time before 800 page FAQs and step by step combo guides.

    Memories of a time before 'onscreen help or 'context sensitive' game menus.

    Memories of a time when games didn't have to have an end, or play fair with you...

    Memories of arguing with parents about spending too much time in the ware palace.

    Memories of adding fools to the database for future reference.

    Memories of spending my college years at SFSU in the campus arcade

    Memories of Metallica on stage with long hair ripping through Harvester of Sorrow >sigh<

    Memories of jacasetnls over the top victory celebrations

    Memories of playing the fabled Thomas and kicking his ass. (If only for a few games)

    Memories of defiling the great temple known as Dennys

    Memories of taking fools bus fare and lunch money as they tried just one more time

    Memories of sending legions of fools back to Remedial to work on their basics

    Today I share a brief moment in time which jcasetnl will never let me forget

    I do mean. never

    Oakland, CA:

    Jcase and Phil (the deadest homie of them all) are credited with introducing me to the game of SF2. Phil brought the knowledge, but stepped back as his disciples took his knowledge, disposed of it, and elevated to a new plateau. (Not to deride Phil any fool who can finish Ultima 4 has his name scribed in the Great Book of Wareplay Eternal his 8bit skillz were indeed legendary on both NES and C64 alike)


    For a brief period of time after the release of SF2, I was able to hold my own against any and all challengers. I didnt lose often and when I did lose I was able to evolve and return with higher standard. My skills, reflexes, and timing were polished to a point that I have since been unable to duplicate


    I was also quite the arrogant bastard especially where SF2 was concerned. (..and rightfully sohehe) Trash talking was a huge component of my game. To this day I am amazed that I didnt end up in a garbage can somewhere in the back alleyways of Oaklands Chinatown

    Woe to the fool who walked up to a machine with a gamepro in hand or a move list scrawled on a napkin. He would be the recipient of verbal abuse that would make the likes of a Navy Seal ring the bell of shame

    I often turned this attitude toward the homies as well as Jcase and I would often exchange pleasantries after our matcheshehe

    After a while, Jcase stepped away from challenging me and concentrated on his own game. He would often step in to trade rounds with me while I reloaded on bagel dogs and Sunkist, or made a food run to the local Wendys. In my mind, this was the white flag that I had been waiting for. I had established myself as the dominant World Warrior.

    Of course, I had no clue that he was studying my habits, patterns, techniques, tendencies I also had no clue that my style was so readily obvious. Apparently JCase had noticed my fatal flaws flaws that other opponents recognized but could do nothing about. (I had fairly quick reaction times, and the speed of the original SF2s game play gave me plenty of time to adapt to their attacks.) This coupled with the time he had been spending cross training at the OakTree was a dangerous combination

    One afternoon he cruised into GameTown, stepped up to the SF2 machine that I had been occupying for what seemed like weeks without a valid challenge, plunked in his quarter, and hit the player 2 start button.

    I believe that day I had decided to work on what we called advanced theory with Ken. (I often took breaks from playing Guile, as it was just too easy) I believe Jcase to be putting his newfound Guile devotions to the test.

    Round 1 started as I faked a fireball and dug into his airborne ass with a dragon punch. (Oh how many rounds began this way, my old friends?!hehe) While not taking the round with a perfect, I was victorious and began one of my usual verbal celebrations.

    Round 2 saw me relaxing myself a bit. In the olden days, we gave second rounds to our deserving opponents as a way of showing respect. The problem was, while I thought I was giving him second round, he actually took it from me. Toward the end of the round he began to read my every move and supply the appropriate counter for the situation. How many backfists in the mouth would it take for me to adjust my flow?? How many standing forwards or air throws would it take for me to adapt??

    Round 3 began and for the first time in recent memory I was concerned that my opponent may actually get the best of me. I became tentative I was second guessing myself. I was hesitant and cautious perhaps too cautious.

    Jcase sensed this and began the blitzkrieg. I found myself flipping around the screen in hopes of escaping the onslaught, in hopes of delaying the inevitable

    I, like countless Ken/Ryu players before me, was being dissected by the consummate Guile player. As time wore on in the round, I began to stage a brief comeback, upper cutting any limb he would even think about sending my way doing my best to keep proper distance. Faking him into coming in and getting a fistful It was truly a see-saw matchup.

    He seemed to have an answer for everything... he would take the hits, then bring the pain. The closing seconds of the round saw me in the corner, attempting to hold on for a few more seconds perhaps in hopes of being saved by Father Time.

    It had become clear to me what I needed to do: I had a tactic of walking up to crouching opponents and throwing them. Remember that? Straight up walk up to a fool and toss em before their brain even processed Jcase had this move scouted, as I had used it on him religiously. (With MUCH success)

    I made the madmans final attempt and moved in to deliver the final throw. As I rose and made my way toward my crouching nemesis, thoughts of my victory speech began streaming through my mind. "We choose to go the moon in this decade...."

    Not two steps into my attempt to throw my unsuspecting opponent, I was greeted by a roundhouse flash kick, right smack on the forehead

    eeeeeeewwwwwuuuuuhhhhhh was all I heard as Ken struck the ground lifeless and Guile began combing his ridiculous flat-top. It was the flash kick heard round the world

    I was stunned, but muttered good shit nonetheless.

    Of course, JCase being the great sport that he is proceeded to humiliate me with the greatest after match clown in recorded history.

    Elated at the sight of his victory, he ran out of the arcade, directly into the middle of college avenue with his arms raised overhead in a V and screamed MOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOMBAT!!!! at the top of his lungs.

    All the while, staring toward the sky, spinning around in the middle of the street. MOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOMBAT!!!!

    (For those who dont remember, the ad campaign for the 16bit renditions of Mortal Kombat featured scores of kids running through desolate streets yelling Mortal Kombat in unison)

    Cars and passers by had absolutely no idea how the balance of power had shifted that day, or the significance of his actions. In fact, most were peeved to see a young punk in the middle of the street yelling at the top of his lungs.

    He returned to the arcade to find me in a ball on the floor of the arcade tears of laughter streaming down my face

    I had been handed the fattest slice of humble pie in my game playing career.

    Big props to Jcasetnl, Jay, Frank, the crews from GameTown, OakTree, Regency, Escapade, 2 Star liquor, SShack Redemption, Big Al, all my victims, and all those here in the forums today who took the time to read about a personal piece SF history.

    Much love to the dead homies, to the Commodore Amiga, to the old skool warez scene, and to anyone who picked up a controller when it was called a joystick and had one big ass red button.

    Im OUT

    -Tesco
    "Tony"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Is that THE Eggo from Gamefan magazine posting?!
  • jcasetnljcasetnl nachos.posterous.com Joined: Posts: 145
    Old skool - mad skillz.

    First of all, you new skool fools need to read that shit twice on weekdays and three times on sunday and take notes. That was consumate old skool as it has never been told nor will ever be spoken again. You need to study that shit, pay attention and recognize.

    Damn dude, even till this day I get slapped around by your technique.

    I need to head to the ticket counter for Redemption...

    <>!!sEGa!!<>

    - jon
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    with this talk about og sf, im trying to learn guile. can one of you guys help me on the guile vs ryu matchup HF, the gameplan and strategy, like followups and setups after booms..im only 17 but i played this 24 year old og player and i would come so close to beating his ryu with my ryu but when i go to guile i completely lose, and his guile beats down on both my guys but i still don't really know how to play guile.

    This matchup is pretty hard for Guile. Good ryu players will sweep your low forward and roundhouse with a low roundhouse. They can see the move come out and react.

    Anyway, try walking backwards to start, throwing nothing but fast sonic booms in the projectile war. See if you can draw him out into jumping to come get you. If you have him jumping towards you, you'll most likely win.

    If he doesn't jump towards you, you're going to have to keep throwing sonic booms till he falls asleep, then jump with a late roundhouse to kick him once in the head. Then proceed to run away and guard the lead. This match is all about getting a lead (no matter how minor) and holding it. Time is your best friend.

    Once you've got Ryu jumping, then you can low fierce, low strong (it will whiff) then immediately throw (Ryu's jumping RH with mysteriously miss), low jab, standing RH, standing forward if he's right on top of you, air throw, low forward or RH if he's far, or jump early RH. Once in a while, you might want to block too. Basically, whenever Ryu jumps on you, do something different, so he never knows what to expect and when to RH.

    If you're losing, then you have to play close range and throw the hell out of him. This should be your second choice. Never play close range if you can avoid it. Here, throw a slow sonic boom and follow it. If he matches with a fireball, backhand or low forward (he'll have time to block), but it buys you time to setup another boom.

    A good OG trick is after doing a low forward which they block, immediately do a backhand. If they try to throw a fireball, you'll hit them clean before the fireball comes out. Your goal is to get them to block a sonic boom with you right behind it. Then you just walk in and throw. The alternate is walk in and at the last second low RH. Or you can walk in, pause, then walk forward and low RH. Walk in, standing jab, throw. Endless variations of cheese. If he spin kicks, low fierce. If he fireballs, block it, then jump towards him with a fierce, low strong, razor kick in case he throws another.

    If Ryu corner traps you with fireballs, it can get really bad. Try razor kicking out - cutting off his head like a guillotine and going through the fireball. Or else trade a backhand with the fireball just to throw off his timing. Good Ryu players will back you into the corner and make you block at least 5 fireballs every time you fall down. If you jump up, they'll alternate fireball speed till you finally fall on one. You do not want to be in the corner against a good Ryu player.
    Is that THE Eggo from Gamefan magazine posting?!

    Yes.
  • Storming FlowerStorming Flower Top player hater Joined: Posts: 617
    thx a lot man, i really appreciate it. i've beem playing a lot and sorta learning those things, yes i've found out that time is my friend. i mostly use low strong, walk stand fk, thrust knee, jump early rh, and walk under throw against jumping. however how do catch in airthrow? in a projecticle war, even though im throwing fierce booms, wouldn't i lose the war? because i end up getting guard damaged, cuz fb comes out faster than boom? i thoguht ryus game plan was to keep guile out. (unless hes way behind in life)
  • jcasetnljcasetnl nachos.posterous.com Joined: Posts: 145
    Originally posted by Storming Flower
    j: thanks for replying i read your post on shinakuma too when you talked about the walk unders, but im still trying to figure it out. Right its like im developing a pattern of slow boom, walk forward, down forward twice, then boom again (if they jump im screwed), or continue down jabbing before boom but if they jump while im jabbing then FK. (that gets weak but not sure what else to do)

    sometimes they jump and i walk under and throw from other side. or low boom knee boom again. i'll use the other booms like fierce to give myself room when they throw fireball so i can walk foward. that's all i basically do...(not a good sign) I mean in ST he has those new kicks so i can use him but he seems more limited in HF, , what about corner traps..i'll just keep practicing

    When you walk under the guy, if you're directly under him do standing forward kick with the stick neutral. After you knock him out of the air a few times with this he'll roundhouse early to counter it (the roundhouse has priority I think). So in that case, when you're right under him, let the stick go neutral again and wait for the roundhouse. The moment he sticks his foot out you go into crouch - not defensive crouch - because you'll go into your block animation. Just duck under the kick, which will wiff, and when he lands you can chuck him, do a couple low strongs, etc.

    If you connect with the standing forward you have to move up so that once again you're right out of the range of his roundhouse. So basically you need to know fairly precisely where he'll land because you have to position and charge as soon as possible.

    On the corner traps it's basically the same thing. In WW Guile could corner trap like a bastard but by the time of Super Turbo they'd added some delay to the sonic boom and taken a lot of the range and priority out of the flash kick. Also, of course, his normal moves got ball-chopped. Oh yeah, and they added a slight delay after the flash kick. <sigh> Speaking of which, when you do his super flash kick, there's no delay afterwards so if you completely wiff it and the guy walks up to toss you worse, you can immediately follow with another flash kick. It won't work against the better players who are wise to it but sometimes it can turn a match around.



    Hope this helps.

    - j
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    The ONE thing I remember about the "Old Skool" S.F. scene were the Fights that occured outside the Arcade/Round the Local "Corner" after someone lost a match. It was pretty good, actually.

    ........
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    This is the greatest thread ever! :)
    Thanks to this thread , i will download every single st movie from evo which i otherwise never would`ve done..
  • Judgment DayJudgment Day Disrupting Da Coronation Joined: Posts: 379
    Back in the day... (LONG!)
    Originally posted by Tesco
    Not two steps into my attempt to throw my unsuspecting opponent, I was greeted by a roundhouse flash kick, right smack on the forehead

    eeeeeeewwwwwuuuuuhhhhhh was all I heard as Ken struck the ground lifeless and Guile began combing his ridiculous flat-top. It was the flash kick heard round the world

    I was stunned, but muttered good shit nonetheless.

    Of course, JCase being the great sport that he is proceeded to humiliate me with the greatest after match clown in recorded history.

    Elated at the sight of his victory, he ran out of the arcade, directly into the middle of college avenue with his arms raised overhead in a V and screamed MOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOMBAT!!!! at the top of his lungs.

    All the while, staring toward the sky, spinning around in the middle of the street. MOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOMBAT!!!!

    (For those who dont remember, the ad campaign for the 16bit renditions of Mortal Kombat featured scores of kids running through desolate streets yelling Mortal Kombat in unison)

    Cars and passers by had absolutely no idea how the balance of power had shifted that day, or the significance of his actions. In fact, most were peeved to see a young punk in the middle of the street yelling at the top of his lungs.

    He returned to the arcade to find me in a ball on the floor of the arcade tears of laughter streaming down my face

    I had been handed the fattest slice of humble pie in my game playing career.

    -Tesco
    "Tony"

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Oh my God, that was funny! Excellent post, my friend.

    PS: The death sound effect of Ken was to a tee. Also reminds me on how Ken and Ryu used to say "Shoryuken" (All You Can) like they meant it in those days. The true sign of old school :)

    eeeeeeewwwwwuuuuuhhhhhh
    --The Real Ken
    Judgment Day: PsychoBison, Rated [R]


    http://www.mayn-event.com
  • DanielLarussoDanielLarusso All for the glory of love Joined: Posts: 219
    As many have said before me, best thread on SRK. Good shit jcasetnl. What up Eggo, Dragonmaster Alex from the OG #gf_tavern oldschool in the heazy.
    The Karate Kid
  • jcasetnljcasetnl nachos.posterous.com Joined: Posts: 145
    Originally posted by Storming Flower
    thx a lot man, i really appreciate it. i've beem playing a lot and sorta learning those things, yes i've found out that time is my friend. i mostly use low strong, walk stand fk, thrust knee, jump early rh, and walk under throw against jumping. however how do catch in airthrow? in a projecticle war, even though im throwing fierce booms, wouldn't i lose the war? because i end up getting guard damaged, cuz fb comes out faster than boom? i thoguht ryus game plan was to keep guile out. (unless hes way behind in life)

    You're right that you can't go head up against fireballs with booms. So the key is to know when the fireball is coming and already have an answer for it with a normal. And of course, you can't connect a normal unless you're close to your opponent...

    But if you use the same normal over and over you'll obviously get factored and filed away. So mix it up, but more importantly, watch what your opponent does in response to your setups. Some guys, after you shut down a fireball with a backfist, for example, will *always* jump at you as soon as he recovers. And because of the positioning I knew I could always do a walk under and either do standing forward or let the roundhouse wiff and hit him on the way down. I can also "take the hit" and throw him. In some cases I could jump and chuck him out of the air. He's expecting me to go for the wiff/low hit thing, so he holds off hitting roundhouse and leaves himself wide open.

    They jump forward and immediately realize it was a mistake, but in the heat of the match they can't adapt and overcome their "instinctive" response. My reaction time was middle-of-the-road at best so I had to know what was coming in advance. Quick players, even with often subpar gameplans, always gave me the toughest time until I took their game into the lab for analysis.

    This is all ryu/ken stuff though. Especially against good rushdown Balrogs you better have something else up your sleeve.

    - j
  • jcasetnljcasetnl nachos.posterous.com Joined: Posts: 145
    Re: Back in the day... (LONG!)
    Originally posted by Judgment Day


    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Oh my God, that was funny! Excellent post, my friend.

    PS: The death sound effect of Ken was to a tee. Also reminds me on how Ken and Ryu used to say "Shoryuken" (All You Can) like they meant it in those days. The true sign of old school :)

    eeeeeeewwwwwuuuuuhhhhhh
    --The Real Ken


    That reminds me of when the slower kids would call Guile, "gully" and Ryu was still called "rye-you", back when kids would have half-hour long debates about what make and model car the bonus round Ride was or point to the old man with the cane on Bison's stage and claim he was Sheng Long.

    PISS-O-PISS-O-P-PISS-OFF. Who's old skool enough to remember what fighting game that comes from? Heh heh.

    Damn this thread brings back memories. Back in the Street Fighter 1 days I used to show other kids how to do the special moves in exchange for nachos and burritos...heh heh... information is power. Then they would do the same with other kids. Talk about a pyramid scheme.

    I can still beat Heavy Barrel on one quarter, though. I can usually still get at least to Stage 30 in Galaga. And it would not be wise to ever throw money down against me in Moon Patrol or Spy Hunter. All that aside, I'd go so far to claim you might be totally insane to ever challenge me on 8-bit, that is, unless you can beat Metroid from start to finish in under 20 minutes or beat Gradius without any codes... heh heh. :D :cool:

    peace - j
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Originally posted by Eggo
    "His problem was he didnt have the reflexes and coordination to pull off the latest combos"

    Sometimes I wish I had just kept that quarter in my pocket and walked.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Originally posted by vahe
    Sometimes I wish I had just kept that quarter in my pocket and walked.

    :lol: ...and here I thought I was the old man on the board. <passes cane over to Vahe>

    So why don't you share your thoughts on Tomo with the younguns?
  • MillionMillion King of Creeps Joined: Posts: 6,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    haha....I think I was the only one here who didn't say "Gully" when referring to Guile. I thought it was odd and couldn't possibly be correct....it doesn't even look like it's pronounced that way. :p Plus there was the word "beguiled", so I figured it was pronounced that way. Everyone here also said "rye-yuu" for Ryu, and that was NEVER corrected. For the longest time, I was probably the only one saying it the japanese way. It got to a point where I just conformed to saying "ryeyuu" just so people around me knew who the hell I was talking about.:lol: I refused to start calling Guile "gully" though....it just sounded silly.

    I had a friend who swore Ken/Ryu were saying "I Got YouSurrounded!" when doing that hurricane kick....eventually he just called the move IGotYousurrounded!....like:
    "Hey, how you do that IGotYouSurrounded again?"


    Rumors!!! Rumors!!! anyone remember these?
    --Guile can take a gun out and shoot the opponent.
    --Guile could use a knife that's tucked in his boot.
    --there was a way the opponent could pick up Vega's claw after it was knocked off.
    --If you KOed him in a certain spot on the screen, Bison's body would break the bell in the background.
    --Guile could throw his comb at the opponent.
    The odd thing is....I remember people believing these....but I don't remember ANYONE falling for the legendary Sheng Long secret character joke. :lol:
  • DanielLarussoDanielLarusso All for the glory of love Joined: Posts: 219
    -When the WW came to the SNES soon after there was a Game Genie code that allowed you to pick the last four bosses.

    When you used the code the game was glitchy and the bosses were off color. In fact I think only two of them worked.

    If you were Sagat, you were fine as long as you're throwing Tiger shots, but once you tried to Tiger Uppercut the game would freeze and you'd have to reset it.

    ---

    My cousin's favorite character was always Sagat. Sagat was unplayable so he'd pick Ryu, and yell Tiger and Tiger Uppercut EVERY time he did a fireball or dragon punch.

    ---

    Knowing how to do all the character's moves on command was considered "mastering" the character.
    The Karate Kid
  • UltimaUltima Whipped Joined: Posts: 1,686 ✭✭
    Waitaminute... "Eggo"..? As in Eggo from Gamefan? :wtf:

    BTW, amongst most of my friends and in my country, Ryu is still pronounced "Rye-YOU". Most of us know how it's really pronounced, but we refuse to change because we're stubborn OG bastards like that. :)

    To Million:

    Jesus, we've gone over and over all those stupid Sf2 rumours about 2193712937901274 times by now. But among the more famous ones you missed were Chun Li being able to throw her bracelet, being able to throw the rock in Chun Li's stage, Blanka climbing the tree in his stage, and Bison being able to hide in his bell. At least those were some of the rumours I heard in my country.

    It's odd: Despite the fact that I've grown up and live in another country, the SF2 rumours that we had are pretty much the same as the ones I've heard in the US. I guess bullshit is universal. :p
    Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
  • Judgment DayJudgment Day Disrupting Da Coronation Joined: Posts: 379
    Originally posted by jcasetnl



    That reminds me of when the slower kids would call Guile, "gully" and Ryu was still called "rye-you", back when kids would have half-hour long debates about what make and model car the bonus round Ride was or point to the old man with the cane on Bison's stage and claim he was Sheng Long.

    peace - j

    Heh...As people mentioned, a lot of gamers still call him Rye-You, even I do, though I'm aware of the correct pronounciation. Just a bad habit, I guess. Every now and then me, and my friends joke around and call Guile "gully" or break out the "Barlog" :lol:

    Nothing was better than translating what was originally said to English which made absolutely no sense, like:

    Somebody! = SamSho1, 3 Victory Chant

    Ahh...memories :)
    Judgment Day: PsychoBison, Rated [R]


    http://www.mayn-event.com
  • ShinRyuBenShinRyuBen Not a new $#@%ing member.... wtf.. Joined: Posts: 166
    ..Oh Hell yahh!! HEAVY BARRELL!!!!!!
    My mom used to work at stopNgo and lemmee tell ya' .... I played that game to no end... the best one of those DE little twisty stick games... what fun...
    And as for Street Fighter... One of my friends called him "Barlog" and I always ragged on him.... but one day he showed me that it was spelled that way on the cabinet.... I felt like such a jerk....
    And for the "Igotyousurrounded.." there is no fucking way he said TatsuMakiSenpuuKyaku... I always called it "Yespakjakgaroogak" (yep... I'm serious.....) and to this day if Im talkin to one of my buddies I STILL call it the "Yespakjak"... think about it.... wtf WAS he sayin????
    ---->>Ben
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible only make violent revolution inevitable
    -John F. Kennedy
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    LoL, this thread is great. Funny and a history brush up. As for funny rumors:

    - Guile's comb, yeah there was the throw the comb one, but I also heard from a friend back in the day that he used it as a knife or something. I swear I heard someone say to get the comb you gotta press certain buttons when he pulls it out to comb his hair for his victory pose. Too funny.

    The Chun-Li rock one is interesting because the rock does appear to pop-up off the foreground because of the way the graphics are, I guess someone saw that and immediatly thought it must be useable. Too good.

    This is a Mortal Kombat one but... :

    -Johnny Cage has a Fatality where he does his infamous "ball punch" and juggles the guy's balls like a clown then throws them all up in the air and catches them in his mouth. :lol: Sick, funny, but I don't see how anyone could ever think it could even be remotely true. I heard this one on a school bus ride home, ages ago BTW.


    General thoughts now. I mentioned this in a somewhat recent chat hosted by AMinorThreat. I think SF2 gameplay in general for people back in the day, well at least the people who were younger - was pretty funny reflecting upon it now. I believe you could sum up our Shoto gameplay like this:
    Mix up Hadoken, Hurricane Kick, good old "jump kick and trip", and struggle to Shoryuken.

    Great stuff.

    Oh boy does my state need more SF 2 series machines.

    Ryu's Hurricane Kick : "Da-da-da-dadooken."

    DBZNY 5.0
    http://go.to/DBZNY
    -GohanFan@aol.com-
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    ok...so who's tomo?

    Whod he get dethroned by?

    Valle? Choi? Watts?
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404
    Originally posted by floppydiskx
    ok...so who's tomo?

    Whod he get dethroned by?

    Valle? Choi? Watts?

    Nobody. He just retired, IIRC.

    Josh the FunkDOC
    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-speedrunning - My live stream, mainly speedruns w/ some other stuff now and then
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,152 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by GohanFan
    This is a Mortal Kombat one but... :

    -Johnny Cage has a Fatality where he does his infamous "ball punch" and juggles the guy's balls like a clown then throws them all up in the air and catches them in his mouth. :lol: Sick, funny, but I don't see how anyone could ever think it could even be remotely true. I heard this one on a school bus ride home, ages ago BTW.


    :lol:
    That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time... never heard that one before...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Heh, after reading all this I decided to pop in the ol' SF2 cartridge for SNES and DAMN! I have not enjoyed SF that much in a long time. Re-dizzy combos, covering your sweeps with fireballs, tick-throwing, just basic shit that never gets old.

    Couple questions

    Are there any old school SF collection games for DC or PS?

    How do you do some of those Guile glitches like the invisible throwing and handcuff things, I've heard about them but never seen them. And can they be done on the SNES version.
  • MillionMillion King of Creeps Joined: Posts: 6,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are two SF Collections on Playstation. I actually forgot if I had both or not..:p It's been THAT long since I've played the system. (I destroyed my psx over 2 years ago.)

    The collection I remember most is the one with Super SF2, Super SF2 Turbo, and SFAlpha 2 Gold. Alpha 2 Gold was on a second disc, and the Super games were on the first disc. The other SF Collection has regular SF2 and SF2 Champion Edition..(or Hyper? I'm not sure)
    And the art for both of the SF Collections is SO damn nice....it's done by whoever the artist(s) are that did all the Rival Schools/project justice art. Of course, this means it's one of the very few SF games to be released in U.S. with GOOD box art.:p The one I have has a group shot of everyone from the Super series on the front.
    *quick search*---here it is:
    http://www.ciudadfutura.com/solucionesytrucos/playstation/streetfightercollection.jpg
  • NemoDCNemoDC Joined: Posts: 271
    i remember thinking during the hurricane kick "rye-you" was saying "ha-tight-tight-world wah!!"

    everyone remember's rumors about how to do the "red fireball" with ryu/ken

    i could've sworn one time i saw E.Honda's arm fly off and hit the guys face across the screen... but I kept that to myself.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Street Fighter....now that's a name I've not heard, in a long time....a long time...

    I actually got started with the first street fighter on a *commodore-64*. I didn't even know how to do the moves...just, sometimes a FB or a 50% damage DP came out. The music was quite good on it, though.

    Then, around 1989, when I started playing it at an Arcade in Cerritos Mall, I started learning the moves from my friend and trainer, Mohsen, and eventually we were able to have Uppercut contests, sometimes lasting half the round before someone got hit. (On that machine, the Uppercut was COMPLETELY invincible, even when landing). And we also had contests to see who could get the highest score fighting the computer (even a blocked HK gave you 5,000 points per hit, and making the CPU block and doing the HK for 4 hits, was the fastest way to jack up your score). Losing the 2nd round helped a lot here, too.
    (note: getting the "highest score" in a machine card (best score ever), gave you a bunch of free tokens.

    Anyway, Street fighter 2 came to our arcade late, because the manager was a jerk, and was going "VR" crazy. Anyone remember the "TIme traveler" "Hologram" game, and the "VR" action game? He didn't think SF2 was a great game, which hs REGRETTED when he found out how much money he missed, and how those "high tech" machines were TOTAL fads. We had to go play at Long Beach arcade, and a few other places, before the "TIme Out" would get a SF2 machine.

    Mohsen and I had advantages when SF2 was new, since we already knew how to DP, so we could beat a lot of people. We also found out about tick chumping too, but most scrubs hated it. we used it to take advantage of a knockdown and outpredicting what the other guy was going to do.

    Then (since we lived in Cerritos), we found out about World's Finest comics (in Pico Rivera) and Pacmann Arcade...and that's where I met the legendary Tomo (and a bunch of others, like George "eggo" (no offense, George :) (Ngo). It was at Pacmann where we first saw the "sitting Guile" domination of WW, when Guile's ground attacks simply had WAYY too much priority, and NOTHING in the game could hit his close standing forward kick (not even Chun Li's forward knee press, IIRC)

    I still remember when Mohsen beat Tomo's Perfect Guile, with *ken*, by jumping at him without attacking, which whiffed Tomo's RH totally, and then he got tick thrown to death. From then on, Tomo used ducking Fierce....

    CE came out next, and Western Arcade (in Cypress) and a donut shop by Faye Ross(?) junior high had the machines first. That Donut shop was PACKED with about 20 people...a tiny little shop. Western arcade was farther but we went there a day or two later, and it was PACKED. Two CE machines, and Mohsen figuring out that Guile was still good (but he didn't have 0 recovery after flash kick anymore). This was back before anyone knew about Ken's almighty Jumping Fierce priority. I was the first person in Cerritos to find out about this, and NO ONE at touraments knew. I was fighting some Vega player, who kept using the claw when I jumped in. Then I tried different attacks, and then saw that the Fierce, to my surprise, stuffed his claw cleanly. I then saw how dominating this Fierce was, by jumping at the CPU and outprioritizing their counters. I took this to a tournament at WF comics, and surprised everyone by jumping at Guile, and stuffing his ducking punch with my Fierce, and doing a DP for free when landing (usually a combo).

    The problem was, those joysticks were like total 360 type (Super) sticks that I could NOT DP on (I could only DP on the old block-feeling (for the corners) style (Happs Competition-like) joysticks), so my Ken got pretty owned. I even surprised Sean Mann by jumping at his sagat with Ken a million times, before he figured out that vs Ken's fierce, he had to wait till the last moment before doing a TU. I can't believe none of these guys knew this (not even Tomo).

    CE was really an imbalanced game, though. Bison had an *UPPERCUT* vs many players (Ducking Fierce), which totally destroyed Ryu...if Bison got close to Ryu, he could trade RH's with Ryu's FB, and nothing worked....Ryu couldn't jump (duck fierce), Ryu couldnt HK (duck fierce), Ryu couldn't DP (scissors double dizzy), Ryu couldnt FB (Bison jumps straight up or hits you with RH)...Ken was much easier to fight Bison with, than Ryu, as his jumping fierce hits Bison's ducking fierce).

    The 5 best players in CE were Guile, Bison, Ryu, Sagat (who was apparently identical to SSF2 Sagat but with a "worse" fireball and MASSIVELY damaging Fierce TU) , and Dhalsim (with his fast drills, and rediculous tick traps).

    I got out of tournaments after that, due to not having funds (or transportation), but I did start playing HF, and Chun (who was the same as on Ce, except with a much better SBK, and a FIREBALL), was actually a respectable player, and Blanka was mad fun.

    A word about some of the matchups: when i went to Riverside, I learned that Chun was one of the best characters in HF, IF you know how to use her effectively, without making mistakes. (Her too good jump forward+throw vs Shotos was a no-brainer as long as you didnt throw them into the corner--her throw made them land at the perfect time for a middle jump hit right when they get up, and jump forward+two low forwards=fast dizzy if they miss a wakeup DP), PLUS a fireball and useful air SBK. Blanka was really good too, vertical balls=OWNAGE...Sagat and Bison were no longer the best...Bison sucked ass and Sagat had more FB recovery time now; Dhalsim was really weakened (his air drills were SLLOWWW and more vulnerable now, while given an almost useless teleport--good against blanka traps only IF you did it right). Honda destroyed Sagat with his TOO GOOD short sumo splash. Ryu, without a Bison to stuff him (HF Bison's duck fierce totally missed Ryu's HK now), and with the increased speed of HF, made him top tier.

    Some people think that HF Ryu was "better" than CE Ryu, but this isn't really true. CE Ryu had gained the initial invincible frames of the HK, and faster FB, but slower ground speed (than Ken)...this was unchanged in HF. HF Ryu gained an air HK, that's the only change. Otherwise he was the _exact_same as on CE (the air HK could work for him or against him depending on distance or matchup). Both Ryu and Chun could land for free after their HK/SBK in the air and ground in HF. But what REALLY made Ryu top tier (besides the nerfing of Bison) was the faster speed of the game. This made it harder for Guile and Chun to react to Ryu's fireballs.

    If HF had CE's gamespeed, then Guile would be top tier, and Ryu would probably be *Below* Chun Li (chun would be 2nd, Ryu third), since again, the faster gamespeed makes it harder for both of them to react to the fireballs. Few people realize this.
    As it is now, the rankings for HF are 1:Ryu, 2:Guile/Chun (depends on who has more experience in this matchup, but Guile has a slight pull), 3:Blanka/Sagat (take your pick) 4:Ken. 5:Honda/Gief

    I wont get into the ST games, since I wasn't really into the scene (besides SSF2 and some ST games in Riverside and after I came back to Cypress)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Originally posted by smashfighter
    Heh, after reading all this I decided to pop in the ol' SF2 cartridge for SNES and DAMN! I have not enjoyed SF that much in a long time. Re-dizzy combos, covering your sweeps with fireballs, tick-throwing, just basic shit that never gets old.

    Couple questions

    Are there any old school SF collection games for DC or PS?

    How do you do some of those Guile glitches like the invisible throwing and handcuff things, I've heard about them but never seen them. And can they be done on the SNES version.

    nope, it can't be done on the snes version, but load up the arcade rom on your P.C. in mame...and have some guile air throw fun. I remember when we first discovered that you didn't have to throw them forward, you could throw them towards your character, and keep doing it over and over until they died. Or doing the handcuffs on someone, then releasing them 1 second before the match was over so that it wouldn't have to be restarted. Classic.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Story for you

    Hey, I just figured I'd add a link to my thread here... with some info about my Street Fighting in the good old days and the opponents I met in the past, like Tomo O., Thomas O. and the good east coast old-schoolers.

    http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=12165
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
  • MajMaj CvS2 Combo Collector Joined: Posts: 2,073
    Wow. Just wow. This is hands down the best thread i've read on srk this year.

    jcasetnl, Visceral_1, Eggo, vahe, urkangijordi, JoelFrank - you guys are my heroes!

    Way too much fun reading these stories, trying to understand what it must have felt like to find down/back for the first time with Guile : )
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    This is the very first thread I have ever read from start to finish, and I must say it is by far the greatest thread ever posted on SRK!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Hey there,

    For the writers and responders who are looking at this thread.... can you please take a look at my own thread called 'Are there any scholars out there? Brainstorming...'

    I make a direct reference to the people in this thread and especially some of the writers. Maybe you folks could help out an old schooler... =)

    Anyways,

    take it easy.

    Visceral_1
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