Advanced A2 Discussion

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
I just started playing the game again after a somewhat long hiatus (like 2 years) and I'm hoping I can learn some new tricks. Hopefully some of you guys can help me out.

First a question: How the hell does Sodom fight Chun-Li? Her jumping short beats his crouching fierce alot of the time, and his crouching strong doesn't work either. Sac-throwing doesn't get me too far if she times the kick right. Nothing short of an AC seems to work. Her standing jabs are great pressure, and she can mix that up with throws. Her ducking RH beats alot as well. Is there any tricks I can use against her or is this a complete mismatch? I've noticed she's considered kind of a monster in this game.

I hope we can get some good Alpha 2 conversation into the air.
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Comments

  • FritzFritz Joined: Posts: 253
    User his supers, they take off more than normal punches and kicks, but you only get 3 altogether
    Souled Out
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    you cant, chun li is god in that game.:(

    and in 3s and in XvSF.

    damn.............weaken that bitch!:mad:
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sodom's Lvl1 Scrape super trades with many of Chun's pokes, so it isn't worth it to throw them out randomly. Actually, it isn't such a good idea to throw out supers randomly for any reason. I guess just using the Alpha Counter wouldn't be such a bad idea, seeing how fast you gain meter.

    Yeah, Chun-Li has a lot going for her in the game. Crazy low forward and whatnot. But fighting an uphill battle makes the match-ups more entertaining, IMO. :cool:

    I'm not really so bad at the game, so if you have any questions, feel free to post. Come on, people still play Alpha 2! You know who you are.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    Sodom is pretty much fucked, kinda like most of the rest of the characters. Chun has way too much priority and speed for Sodom to keep up (not to mention that huge ass damage custom combo of hers). Not much (if anything) in Sodom's repetoire will beat her jumping short or crouching RH (some moves might trade, but even then, they are few and far between). Sorry, I don't play Sodom much, but Chun's got him beat clean.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    A2 Chunli is a symbol of typical Capcom girl charcters - good speed, ungodly air priority, easy ass combos.

    however, things aren't so grim, since this IS alpha 2, the land of alpha counters. Plus Sodom has some other advantages as well.

    Against jumping chun : chunli can either stick her legs out early or late when she jumps. Sodom can counter in 5 ways :
    1) Jumping back roundhouse - this is just on reaction/prediction. Sodom has an above average air to air roundhouse.
    2) Crouching fierce : against chunli who sticks leg out late
    3) Throw : against chunli for sticks leg out early
    4) Alpha counter : against chunli who sticks leg out early
    5) His air catchy thingie : for fun :)

    Against crouching forward chun, try sticking out standing short and fierce at max range. You can also throw in a jab 360 every now and then and it WILL hit Chun from that range. If you have a level 2 or above meter jump straight up. From there you get multiple options

    1) If Chun walks forward you do jumping forward.
    2) If Chun tries to crouch forward + roundhouse you can 720 or do rush super.
    3) If Chun jumps you block, then throw her ass when you both land.

    Sodom's effective range IMO is about 1 to 2 characters outside Chun's crouching forward range. Mainly you have to use standing fierce and jab jitte scrap to keep her there. Build up that meter and AC anything she throws at you. Chunli can't CC you from that range.

    Another important thing to remember about Sodom is that he can recover roll BACKWARDS. Always always roll backwards whenever you hit the floor. This puts you in your ideal range and Chun has to work her way back in.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Actually I've been playing this matchup a decent amount recently, and I've found that Sodom doesn't lose the fight for free. Let me just write down what I've found.

    Sodom has a solid ground game, but Chun's j.lk is just insane. Although like you said, positioning is paramount. Sodom CAN counter it although you end up using many flimsy anti-airs depending on the situation. I end up just saving meter for the AC and just trying to stay out of the way of her jump.

    Sodom's C.RH is great. It accents his ground game very well, and is his best mid-range move, IMO. Learn the range on it. His Standing strong and standing forward are also good, and you can cancel the forward into a jab Jitte Slash, then possibly follow it up with a Slide. His crouching short is also important, and every so often I buffer it into his 360+P. This is effective but should be done no more than like, twice a match because it is not a tick and you can be jabbed out of it on reaction. Sometimes I'll use a standing strong after a crouching short, because it will whack people jumping away expecting the 360. More later.

    You know in all the years I've played Alpha 2 I never knew about that backwards roll! :D How do you do it?

    Does anyone have any CC's with Sodom? What's the Chun-Li one that was mentioned?

    If you have a level 2 or above meter jump straight up. From there you get multiple options

    1) If Chun walks forward you do jumping forward.
    2) If Chun tries to crouch forward + roundhouse you can 720 or do rush super.
    3) If Chun jumps you block, then throw her ass when you both land.

    I haven't tried this, but couldn't Chun-li just walk under you and hit you with her C.RH? That functions as a great anti-air.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    that bitch has wayyyyyyyy too much going for her.

    c. hp
    c.mk
    c.mp
    c.hk
    wall jumps
    j.mk
    j.lk
    standing lp
    and that damn coustom combo!:mad:
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    The Chun Li CC is:

    cr. RH --> Lightning Kick til meter is almost gone --> Rising Spinning Bird Kick

    I think that with a full meter, this can kill.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The Sodom CC i usually go for is: Blow-out CC, forward into repeated strong jitte strikes, CC meter runs out, d.fierce into 360+rh. Painfull. Although, sometimes they get knocked off their feet at the end off the CC sometimes (?) which means you can't d.fierce into 360+rh. I have no idea why.

    Try it after a blocking a high jump-in, or when she tries to throw.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Fritz
    User his supers, they take off more than normal punches and kicks, but you only get 3 altogether
    Most useless advice ever.
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    lololololol agreed das
    AZ fighting game crew, team hAZmat

    www.teamhazmataz.com

    www.twitch.tv/teamhazmat
  • orikuoriku Joined: Posts: 50
    What are the tiers for this game anyway?

    My guess is (from what I've read, seen and heard):

    Tier1
    Ken, Chunli, Rose

    Tier2
    Ryu ??

    Bottom
    Dan (tho he isn't too bad).
    _______________
    I am the mostest... I am the mostest bestest! I am the mostest bestest everest!! wait... that's a mountain. I AM A MOUNTAIN!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Also, utilize Sodom's grab moves, when positioned right, she has trouble getting out of them, also his 720 grab super, it really kills her life meter.......i think grabs would mean the death of Chunny in this game.....

    my favorite matchup is Chunny vs Bison, Chun owns Bison for free!!! literally!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by oriku
    What are the tiers for this game anyway?

    My guess is (from what I've read, seen and heard):

    Tier1
    Ken, Chunli, Rose

    Tier2
    Ryu ??

    Bottom
    Dan (tho he isn't too bad).

    Traditionally, the top tier is known as "The (Big) Four" -

    Ryu
    Ken
    Chun Li
    Rose

    Most people put Zangief in the second tier, but other than him it's debateable.

    Dan is considered 2nd worst in the game, better than only Birdie. I however am willing to prove everyone wrong about that. I think Dhalsim is pretty shitty in A2, and Dan is somewhere closer to mid-tier.
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    i really think sim is decent. his only real flaw(granted its a big flaw) is that ac's destroy his limbs. but other than that, i still think hes a solid character. good CC and inferno super and the typical sim shit. its just that damn downfall when it comes to getting owned by ac's
    AZ fighting game crew, team hAZmat

    www.teamhazmataz.com

    www.twitch.tv/teamhazmat
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What is Guy's CC?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Actually, if someone can post CCs for all the characters that would be most helpful. :D

    What do you guys think of Sakura? I thought that she was one of the top four, after Ken, Ryu and Chun. But then, I only learned of Rose's sneaky low strong not too long ago.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    Most CCs consist of initial normal (more often than not, it is cr. RH), to repeatedly special until meter is nearly done, then finishing special for hits.

    eg. Ken - cr. Rh --> repeated jab DP --> fierce DP

    however, some characters have different customs (although almost all still rely on repeating the same move)

    Rose and Ryu - fireball rave (still same idea, cr. RH --> repeated fireballs, although I think that Rose's is cr. Rh --> short Soul Spiral --> repeated fireballs)

    Rolento - cr. RH --> superjumping shorts and forwards (I think)

    As for Sak, she isn't nearly as good in this game as she was in A3. She seems slower, fireballs come out slower (to me), and her CCs aren't really that good (nowhere near as good as her VCs in A3). She isn't a bad character, but nowhere near the top 4 in this game.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ken/ryu/akuma CC's i use are trip, rh hurricane kick, srk x2, does hella damage..........chuns of course everyone knows hers.....umm lets see thats about all the cc's i know! lol, i only use 3 characters.

    i shall try to find a sakura one..........
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Originally posted by js2756
    Most CCs consist of initial normal (more often than not, it is cr. RH), to repeatedly special until meter is nearly done, then finishing special for hits.

    eg. Ken - cr. Rh --> repeated jab DP --> fierce DP

    however, some characters have different customs (although almost all still rely on repeating the same move)

    Rose and Ryu - fireball rave (still same idea, cr. RH --> repeated fireballs, although I think that Rose's is cr. Rh --> short Soul Spiral --> repeated fireballs)


    As for Sak, she isn't nearly as good in this game as she was in A3. She seems slower, fireballs come out slower (to me), and her CCs aren't really that good (nowhere near as good as her VCs in A3). She isn't a bad character, but nowhere near the top 4 in this game.

    Um, no. After the top 4, second tier is: Zangeif, Rolento, Sakura
    Sakura is still very solid with the best cross-up games in the cast. She's very near the top.

    Rose CCs? Why bother? CCs are the last thing you'll be wanting to spend her meter on. Level 1 Illusion, Level 1 Soul Throw, and both ACs are far better options than her CCs. But if you must:

    Rose CC1: cr.HK, LK Soul Spiral xN, HP Soul Throw
    Rose CC2: (with charged fireball), cr.HK, LP Soul Spark xN
    Ken CC: cr.HK, HK Hurricane Kick xN, HP Dragon Punch
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    sakura has an awesome ground game yet her air game sucks, except for her crossup fk, jumping straight up, rh on the way down is pretty good if you play rushers.....her bnb's are nice as usual
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sakura: For her custom combo, trip and immediately cancel into hk hurricane kick, then xx into the dragon punch at the end of her hurricane kick. Its weird but with sakura, but if you want to get full damage with her hurricane kick, make sure you cancel when the opponent is still near the ground, and not flying outward from the cc cr. rh.

    Rose: never really try it on arcade, but for people who can't roll, use her hp grab in the corner with her. So for example, actiavte cc, cr. rh, xx hk drill xx (air grab * n). It works on snes thats for sure. If at all possible, safe your super for her anti-air grab or better yet the soul illusion. It gives rose ability for insane chip damage.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Guys CC: trip, bushin elbow x n then hurricane kick to end.

    Rolentos CC is sick. trip, scouter jump and lk repeatedly.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • ercoerco Large Member Joined: Posts: 650
    all CC's should start with c.rh, if anything for the Valle CC factor.
    I like games
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by erco
    all CC's should start with c.rh, if anything for the Valle CC factor.

    No. All CC's should start with a LOW HIT. Guy and Zangief have extremely damaging CCs starting with c.forward.
  • ercoerco Large Member Joined: Posts: 650
    shit, didn't know there were decent non-sweep ccs.
    I like games
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by erco
    shit, didn't know there were decent non-sweep ccs.

    Guy's c.forward IS a sweep. It's just faster than his slide. Gief's c.forward isn't... it's just so you can keep them grounded so you can end the combo with a grab (although I seem to remember there being a glitch where you can still SPD at the end of juggling CC... but that may have just been a rumor). Gief's CC that starts with a c.roundhouse still isn't that bad...
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    The Rose CC that I put up does a ton of damage if done properly. I believe that if you do the soul sparks fast enough, you can do 100% damage with it.

    Gunter: I kinda consider Guy's cr. Forward to be a psuedo-sweep since you can cancel the first hit (which doesn't knock down) into other moves.

    Please don't use the SNES version of the game for examples. That game is screwed up to shit.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    For anyone who's wondering about CC's, check out my Alpha 2 vid here. It has each character's most damaging CC (or at least the most damaging one I could find). Transcript can be found on the same page.


    -Nick
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by NKI in his transcription
    Gunter for 0wning me with Dan at B5 (too good!)

    LOL! Thanks for the props. Maybe NOW ppl will believe in the power of DAN! BWAHAHAHA!

    Too bad we couldn't play at Evo. Those damn ST players hogged all the cabinets, couldn't play the best SF ever....
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Gunter


    No. All CC's should start with a LOW HIT. Guy and Zangief have extremely damaging CCs starting with c.forward.

    you wouldn't mind posting that Guy CC would you? Or is it just the Bushin Elbow xn -> Hurricane Kick as someone else posted
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Rose's fireball CC only does insane damage if your Soul Spark is powered up (like 6-8 absorbs). No one with a brain will allow her to absorb that many. After at most 2 absorbs, most people stop when they see they've just given her a free level. Her repeated Soul Spirals is the more practical combo.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    Still not a bad thing to have in her repetoire if fighting someone who is a little too fireball happy.

    Not like she really needs it, all she needs is crouching strong :p
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hey Gunter, I understand your something of a Zangief expert, so here's a question for ya.

    Are Zangief's ticks in this game as effective as they seem? I've used various ticks on various people over the years and they said they couldn't jump out of it. I don't know if thats true, but they seem very effective. On that note, do you think that using CCs with him is worth it over ticking the FAB, or the FAB in general?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by RadicalEdward
    Hey Gunter, I understand your something of a Zangief expert, so here's a question for ya.

    Are Zangief's ticks in this game as effective as they seem? I've used various ticks on various people over the years and they said they couldn't jump out of it. I don't know if thats true, but they seem very effective. On that note, do you think that using CCs with him is worth it over ticking the FAB, or the FAB in general?

    I wouldn't call myself an expert... I just stole all my stuff from Chensor, Sirlin, and various Gief players in Japan. :cool:

    But as far as ticks with him go... forward knees into SPD is extremely good. It is WAY too good. A2 was the last version of SF where he could tick with such success.

    And Gief's meter should be used for CCs 95% of the time. Even at level 1, ppl can't block low if they were standing when you activated. Gief has the longest non-slide c.roundhouse in the game (maybe tied with Rose?), and comboing into Green Hands from that leads to BIG damage. I never really tick into FABs. I like to empty jump and land with FABs once in a while, as it'll grab any poke that they tried to stick out. I'll use FABs maybe 1% of the time I'm playing him. The other 4% is for ACs. His ACs are really really good. You just have to know when to use which one (although I tend to lean towards his Kick AC in more situations...).
  • Lv.32 Z-Ism RoseLv.32 Z-Ism Rose Soul Spark! Joined: Posts: 342
    What is the damage formula for a good CC in A2? Is it the highest amount of hits, or the special moves, or what? What makes a good CC?
    SFA3: V-Cammy, A-Rose, A-Zangief (pad)
    SF3-3S: Hugo (SA1) stick, Yang (SA2) pad, Ryu (SA1)

    Pad>Sticks :lol:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Just some little tips:

    Don't be afraid to try anti-air CCs, they get crazy damage too. EX: Ken CC (d)strong, jab DP xN, hp DP.

    Use CCs to get out of ticks (Gief)

    Don't be afraid to throw with Sakura, it's great. Not the throw itself, but because it leads to perfect crossup opportunity.

    If you get caught Standing (and they CC), at least *TRY* to counter with a special or CC. I've seen too many people just eat the CC without even trying to stop it. Even if you get blow-back. It's hard, but why not right?

    Oh yeah, what's the deal with Bison? He seems soo shitty. Alpha Fat Bison = bleh
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Mummy-B


    you wouldn't mind posting that Guy CC would you? Or is it just the Bushin Elbow xn -> Hurricane Kick as someone else posted

    c.rh -> hurrican kick works too, main one i use lol...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    More random questions on CCs:

    1.) Does invincibility play any role in seting up a CC? I've tried blowing through fireballs with it and have just ended up getting hit as I ran through it. Is it worth the effort?

    2.) Did anyone check out NKI volume 6? That is some crazy shit. Is that what the tournament CCs look like?

    3.) If you can't block in reaction to a CC, can you CC in reaction to a CC? It seems like its possible, but I've not tried it yet.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by RadicalEdward
    More random questions on CCs:

    1.) Does invincibility play any role in seting up a CC? I've tried blowing through fireballs with it and have just ended up getting hit as I ran through it. Is it worth the effort?

    2.) Did anyone check out NKI volume 6? That is some crazy shit. Is that what the tournament CCs look like?

    3.) If you can't block in reaction to a CC, can you CC in reaction to a CC? It seems like its possible, but I've not tried it yet.


    The more meter you have, the longer your invincibility lasts... so in general, you want to CC through FBs at level 2 or higher. I like doing it at 2 and a half. Also, the width of the character plays a huge role. In my entire life, I've only gone through a fB once with Gief, but Guy can probably go through at level 1.

    Also, counter CCs are what makes CCs tolerable. Anyone who says "if you stand near them, you die" doesn't know how to play A2 properly. The customer is NOT always right. The SECOND customer is USUALLY right. However (having worked in customer service I know this for a fact), you're always better off keeping customers away. In A2, you do this by constantly pressuring with c.strong and c.forward. A2 has the best footsies of any SF, which is why I love it so much. :D


    Oh yeah... I can't believe I'm saying this, but GO GIANTS!!!!
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