Advanced A2 Discussion

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Comments

  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    They all different.
  • strizzmatikstrizzmatik Brick = Shat Joined: Posts: 250
    Saturn had the best arcade-to-home port if I'm correct.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Okay, dumb question time:

    I'm trying to get into this game. The characters I'm using are Guy and Sodom. I know they're mid so and they appeal to my play style. I played this guy who used Charlie and I could not get in there. I mostly used Guy though. Nothing Guy has can beat Sonic Boom spam aside from Airgrab which isn't that reliable. Everytime I jumped at him I couldn't crossup (I assume MK is a crossup, right?) so I'd be a little past him and he would just hit LP or MK into Sonic Boom and I'd get pushed in and can't get in again. Rinse and repeat.

    Any advice?
    STOMP!
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,546
    Guy's MK crossup works only against wide/big characters: Rolento, Sodom, Zangief, Birdie.
    he has a dropping elbow (d+MP) crossup.. but is very hard to do as well.

    vs Charlie:
    - try to play footsies with standing MK
    - surprise him with random short jumps (D+MP in air) to bait flash kicks
    - use Bushin Flip + elbow drop (QCF+P,P) to land near him or grab him
    - jump in and activate Custom Combo midair (it has some startup invulnerability and you can catch him on counter)
    - walljump near the wall
    hello friends, my name is Drago Umeharevich from CrossCounter Balkans
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    FYI SFA2 Hitbox Viewer: Chun-Li and Rose
    The emulators and lua script listed on this page work for SFA2 hitbox display (and sfa3 and vsav): Hitbox
    Let's play.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Guy's MK crossup works only against wide/big characters: Rolento, Sodom, Zangief, Birdie.
    he has a dropping elbow (d+MP) crossup.. but is very hard to do as well.

    vs Charlie:
    - try to play footsies with standing MK
    - surprise him with random short jumps (D+MP in air) to bait flash kicks
    - use Bushin Flip + elbow drop (QCF+P,P) to land near him or grab him
    - jump in and activate Custom Combo midair (it has some startup invulnerability and you can catch him on counter)
    - walljump near the wall

    I'll keep it in mind dude. Thanks. I'm starting to get into Guy more. He's got great normals, and some interesting tick throw setups. What sucks is that most of his specials leave him extremely vulnerable (excluding Hurricane Kick).

    Any advice with Sodom? It's really hard to get grabs in with him, especially against shotos. I like his normals, and his Slashes are really good. But grabbing people is really fucking difficult. It seems like if I try to jump in, or tick into the unblockable grab, they always mash out. It seems like it's best to use the grab to punish whiffed specials. But, why do the grab when you can activate V-ism (or CC whatever it's called in A2) and slash them to death for easy 25% dmg?
    STOMP!
  • DreamfireDreamfire ~And it's a long way forward, so trust in me. I'll give them shelter, like you've done for me.~ Joined: Posts: 167 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You just have to train them to stop mashing. Go for counterhit setups if they keep trying to do something. Simple stuff like s.mk, wait a second, c.fp xx scrape will counterhit and then leave you with some advantage to try another counterhit, sweep, or 360. Once they get the hint, then you go for 360s.
    <randomdps> Yes, it's like your characters are walking through a sea of gummy bears
    Darian on how slow A3 is.

    <Hakero> fucking brazil is in tropical geography
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,546
    FYI SFA2 Hitbox Viewer: Chun-Li and Rose
    The emulators and lua script listed on this page work for SFA2 hitbox display (and sfa3 and vsav): Hitbox
    thank you, thank you!
    hello friends, my name is Drago Umeharevich from CrossCounter Balkans
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    If this game was to be rebalanced, what would be some general and character specific changes you A2 masters think should be considered?
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • strizzmatikstrizzmatik Brick = Shat Joined: Posts: 250
    #1 - Take out Valle CC
    #2 - Nerf CC damage in general. A level 1 shouldn't kill 40-60% damage in any situation

    Everything else is pretty minor.

    Ryu - no changes
    Ken - lessen Kick AC hitbox/damage? Maybe nerf his stand Forward hitbox so it's not god-mode AA
    Chun - no changes
    Rose - lessen Soul Illusion damage, maybe a hitbox change to c.Strong (it's way too good)
    Charlie - make c.Fierce usable AA, fix FK hitboxes (inexplicably whiffs at times), increase damage on normals maybe?
    Sagat - higher damage/more invinciblity on Tiger Blow, slightly less recovery on Shots to make him a more viable zoning character
    Rolento - Good god lessen his CC damage. Way too easy to kill 50-80% health with no effort.
    Guy - Make run cancel faster, better hitbox on crossups
    Dhalsim - no changes
    Gen - don't really know Gen well enough to say
    Sakura - fix her crossup so it's blockable in any situation
    Zangief - nerfing CC auto-nerfs him IMO
    Adon - give him mid-air Jaguar Kicks with frame adv. on hit, maybe a slight hitbox nerf to c.Strong?
    Birdie - Don't really know where to start on him, he needs a lot
    Sodom - Give c.Fierce a decent hitbox for AA, give him his A1 slide properties
    Akuma - Change Demon Flip to DP+K, make Raging Demon a 0-frame grab
    Bison - Speed him the fuck up in general
    Evil Ryu - NO FULLSCREEN CC BLOWOUT. Shit is just stupid

    As for Shin Akuma, just remove him.
  • DreamfireDreamfire ~And it's a long way forward, so trust in me. I'll give them shelter, like you've done for me.~ Joined: Posts: 167 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Everyone is already broken and as such, is already balanced imo. A lot of other players would agree as well. This is one of the few fighting games were tiers really don't matter, if you have the knowledge on punishes and footsies you can win with anyone.

    #1 - Leave ValleCC in.
    #2 - Nerf CC damage slighty. There is only a couple characters that actually do 40-60% with a level 1.

    Everything else is pretty minor.

    Ryu - No changes
    Ken - Lessen Kick AC damage is all I agree with.
    Chun - Probably change her fireball hotbox so hurricane's actually hit her when going over the fireball.
    Rose - Lessen Soul Illusion damage is all I agree with.
    Charlie - No changes, he already has godly antiair with s.mp, neutral s.mk, and backfist.
    Sagat - Sagat is already zone heavy, just because his tiger shots aren't ST like doesn't mean he's bad at zoning.
    Rolento - "Good god lessen his CC damage. Way too easy to kill 50-80% health with no effort." - Only one I truly agree with, since his CC actually does like 50-100%
    Guy - His run cancel is already 100% safe even from reversal CC and DPs when you stop point blank, if you do it right. No changes
    Dhalsim - No changes
    Gen - No changes
    Sakura - Her crossup is just ridiculously ambiguous, most top players block it a lot of the time. No changes
    Zangief - He'd still be a monster without ValleCC, or even CCs in the game. No changes though
    Adon - Dunno about sf4 jaguar kicks, but I wouldn't mind seeing atleast frame advantage on hit. Right now everything is punishable besides super carefully timed jaguar kicks.
    Birdie - No changes really, maybe a non-punishable c.fp
    Sodom - His c.fp antiairs a good portion of the cast already, his mixup is extremely annoying once he finally corners you. No changes
    Akuma - No changes
    Bison - He can already walk up, stop, you can whiff a poke, and then he can follow up and throw you a la ST. He's already fast enough. No changes
    Evil Ryu - "NO FULLSCREEN CC BLOWOUT. Shit is just stupid" - I agree
    <randomdps> Yes, it's like your characters are walking through a sea of gummy bears
    Darian on how slow A3 is.

    <Hakero> fucking brazil is in tropical geography
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    I always wondered why Chun's fireball goes full screen. I don't think it should nor should it be HCF.

    What is the purpose of Rolento's S.RH? It should be a better poke than it turns out to be? Too much recovery on it imo, not that Rol needs more stuff, but that is a place that I see improvement to be had.
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • BleeperBleeper Joined: Posts: 122
    #1 - Take out Valle CC
    #2 - Nerf CC damage in general. A level 1 shouldn't kill 40-60% damage in any situation

    Everything else is pretty minor.

    Ryu - no changes
    Ken - lessen Kick AC hitbox/damage? Maybe nerf his stand Forward hitbox so it's not god-mode AA
    Chun - no changes
    Rose - lessen Soul Illusion damage, maybe a hitbox change to c.Strong (it's way too good)
    Charlie - make c.Fierce usable AA, fix FK hitboxes (inexplicably whiffs at times), increase damage on normals maybe?
    Sagat - higher damage/more invinciblity on Tiger Blow, slightly less recovery on Shots to make him a more viable zoning character
    Rolento - Good god lessen his CC damage. Way too easy to kill 50-80% health with no effort.
    Guy - Make run cancel faster, better hitbox on crossups
    Dhalsim - no changes
    Gen - don't really know Gen well enough to say
    Sakura - fix her crossup so it's blockable in any situation
    Zangief - nerfing CC auto-nerfs him IMO
    Adon - give him mid-air Jaguar Kicks with frame adv. on hit, maybe a slight hitbox nerf to c.Strong?
    Birdie - Don't really know where to start on him, he needs a lot
    Sodom - Give c.Fierce a decent hitbox for AA, give him his A1 slide properties
    Akuma - Change Demon Flip to DP+K, make Raging Demon a 0-frame grab
    Bison - Speed him the fuck up in general
    Evil Ryu - NO FULLSCREEN CC BLOWOUT. Shit is just stupid

    As for Shin Akuma, just remove him.

    Nerf this bitch son! Also can Rolento for the love of god have usable supers if you are gonna nerf his CC. None of his supers combo for shit.
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    Is Rolento's bomb dropping super good as an anti air? I really see neither super used in tourny play.
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • DreamfireDreamfire ~And it's a long way forward, so trust in me. I'll give them shelter, like you've done for me.~ Joined: Posts: 167 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It can, but antiair CC is 5000x better. Tripwire can't be combo'd into on this, but lvl 1 hits low instantly when used point blank (like wakeup), and level 3 can catch a fireball fullscreen so it's actually a pretty useful super unlike the other one.
    <randomdps> Yes, it's like your characters are walking through a sea of gummy bears
    Darian on how slow A3 is.

    <Hakero> fucking brazil is in tropical geography
  • CSSCSS i quit mashing custom finally Joined: Posts: 174
    If this game was to be rebalanced, what would be some general and character specific changes you A2 masters think should be considered?

    i'm by no means a master, but these are a few changes i would like to see:

    character specifics
    e.ryu: get rid of his full-screen blowout cc but give him more reliable dragon punches similar to normal ryu.

    general changes
    reducing the amount of damage certain characters do in custom combos would probably be okay, but making them weaker across the roster wouldn't. birdie, for example, needs his high cc damage like darian harman needs good beer and death metal. characters like chun-li and rolento don't need high damaging customs since they already have enough tools to work with.

    i'm on the fence about valle customs. i typically only use CCs for anti-air and punishing, so getting rid of VCs wouldn't be a tremendous blow for me. honestly, i don't think they hurt the game as much as people seem to believe.
    NickRocks wrote: »
    And GGPO players wont travel, they are like 14 and play on keyboard
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    1-Is there a match up chart for this game anywhere? I've seen tier lists, but where is the hard data to back it all up?

    2-If there was a rebalancing (probably never) and the A3 engine is similar enough that they could import a few of the A3 chars, who would fit well into A2? I was thinking Karin/Cody/Boxer/Claw/Honda and Blanka, so that we have the best 2 new chars from A3 and finish up the original cast from SF2. I know they could just put them all in, but 6 shouldn't be that much work and is a nice number. I think a few of the new moves from the A3 incarnations would really help in giving more options to the A2 cast. Again, this is all wishful thinking...

    3-I really hate ACs. They either do too much damage or are too easy to do. Maybe it should be a smaller window to do them.
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    Thinking that AC's, across the board, are too good in A2 is the equivalent of wanting to soft-ban the King's Indian from chess.

    As for Valle CC's, there are a few possibilities for dealing with this. Removing it completely would neuter the fear dynamic of footsie; i.e. the driving force behind wanting to play as sharply as possible. When you take away that in-your-face incentive to both stay alive and represent an immediate threat to your opponent you fundamentally suck the fun out of playing competitively.

    The current ways to counter the Unblockable Low CC are as follows:

    1.) High priority and/or invincible move on the first-to-second frame after the flash: Dragon Punch, Super, Teleport or a move that profiles over a low on the first frame. Not every character has this option without meter.

    2.) Reversal CC - Fairly self-explanatory. What happens, typically, is that your activation is timed such that, if they did perform their sweep on the first (or first few) frames, your CC activation invincibility will cause their sweep to whiff, giving you the free combo. If they mistime their attack, a lot of the time you will activate directly into the hitbox of their move and you are left only with the option to do a reversal type of move on the first frame on reaction to what's on-screen during the CC flash.

    3.) Don't be a jackass.


    Possible solutions/tweaks????: (and let it be known that I do not have any qualms with Valle CC's, period)

    1.) Re-work a few frames here and there to force the Valle CC to be performed with greater precision. So whether it's by making crouch-guard 1 frame faster or making CC normals one or two frames slower, you may lessen the ease of use of the unblockable. This also makes it a bit less "impossible" to hit them with an invincible type move. (on reaction to them activating within your sweep range while you are standing and have no meter, d'uh)

    2.) And in keeping with that thought: Should every character have some sort of Reversal type of move to escape it without meter?

    Some examples...

    Shotos DP it

    Sagat DP's it

    Akuma, Sim, Dictator teleport out of it

    Some suggestions for changes...

    Rolento's qcb+k should leave the ground on the first frame?

    Jaguar Tooth should leave the ground on the first frame? Nooo, fuck that. Just tweak his DP hitboxes/invincibility. Although, it's still a thought.

    Give Sodom his A3 move? (the one that beats lows)

    Make Charlie's f+mk profile over lows and hit earlier?

    Give Dan's DP invincibility whenever you execute it within a certain amount of frames? (In this case it would always have invincibility given how quickly you need to respond). Either that, or make his qcb+lk leave the ground on the first frame. I think even his st.mk can beat Valle CC's, though.

    Etc etc etc...that's another line of reasoning.

    Thoughts?

    Final edit: It's also worth noting that there is already a mindgame taking place in which the person who activates to perform a Valle CC can do so simply to bait an ill-timed counter-attack and punish. For instance, activating within sweep range to bait them into dp'ing or counter CC'ing....etc.
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    Is there a color hack for alpha 2?
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    Yes. It's easy. versuscolors.com.

    Here's most of my custom A2 colors.

    Pictures by CheeseTit_ChainGang - Photobucket
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,546
    3-I really hate ACs. They either do too much damage or are too easy to do. Maybe it should be a smaller window to do them.


    i agree the damage is a bit too high for a tool that should only get you out of pressure.. still they can be countered with buffered specials/supers
    hello friends, my name is Drago Umeharevich from CrossCounter Balkans
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    That video has a lot of pretty things in it, just know that that (mostly) wasn't based on tactics that have any practical immediacy. In a real match, you're going to want to buffer multiple AC reversals during an attack series without breaking stride. You can't just do a string and hope they AC the last hit. And, yes, Ken's AC does too much dmg (Ken player here. Then again, I play everyone).
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • CSSCSS i quit mashing custom finally Joined: Posts: 174
    1-Is there a match up chart for this game anywhere?

    probably, but not in english. were there any characters in particular you wanted matchup analysis for?
    NickRocks wrote: »
    And GGPO players wont travel, they are like 14 and play on keyboard
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    "man, it's work. you ain't trying to look good." - doujinshi


    I thought he said "Nigga, it's work".
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    The Rolento match ups would be great.

    I like those versus colors you showed. I think ill have to try that program.
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    That's too wide open of a question. We need to start somewhere specific. Before you start learning match-ups in depth, you need fundamentals. Footsie, a little punishment, some damaging combos, anti-air reaction, spacing, wake-ups, etc. Those are some of the things that change from match-up to match-up as well. Pick a few characters to fight, preferably some who you find difficult for Rolento to fight. (should be none, because Rolento is a douche to pretty much everyone).

    What matches are you losing? And what's happening in them? What are you having trouble stopping? Etc. Match-up breakdowns are pretty freaking ridiculous. Can't just lay it all out like a pre-made game plan. Sure, there are basic things you'll want to take notice of, but nobody can account for how you play Rolento and how your opponents are playing their characters. It always comes down to yomi.
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    I know the fundamentals very well. Still working on CCs thou. I'm a footsies master which is one of the reasons Rol is to interesting. He is only really weak in regards to wake-ups and limited combos, but spacing, poking, punishing and of course being rdy to use all his anti-air options are his forte. Do you think he has any 4/6 match ups? It seems Ken is easier to handle than Ryu yes?

    In regards to Sagat... one of his weaknesses is if you do a fireball to close and they AC it. I was curious that if you are put in that situation and they AC your FB, should be be rdy for that and be buffering an AC yourself after every close interval FB? Can you AC their AC, if you are hit during the recovery stages of your projectile?
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    This may seem condescending, but I'm not trying to be a dick

    1.) What exactly do you think the fundamentals are?

    2.) Do you think that memorizing a match-up chart/ratio will benefit you in a match in real-time?

    3.) You've mastered footsie? I don't understand. Footsie is largely about adaptation and contingent on that particular moment/opponent.

    4.) No, of course you cannot AC on hit. You may be asking, however, if you can throw the fireball with a timing that allows you the time to recover and AC the AC; to which the answer is both yes and no. Yes, because it is possible, but no, because it is obvious to the opponent that an AC is a stupid idea there.

    5.) What is your name on GGPO?
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    1-Fundaments? You named a good many of them and I don't really care to discuss basics on here. Some of the more intermediate aspects of Alpha I need more work on.

    2-I don't care to memorize a match up chart, but most many fighters have them and since I can't spend hours and hours a day playing, this will give me a slight heads up on what high level play finally boils down to. I just want to read them lol.

    3-How do you not understand, or you are saying that you do not believe that I understand? Footies (a dicussion of which I'd rather not want this thread to turn into) is something that has been around (maybe not in name) since fighting game inception; Knowing the prime distance to keep between you and certain characters (as it changes from char to char and player to player). Moving back and forth and being 'seemingly' random and not sticking to a pattern. This sets you up to allow you to use your primary pokes (Rol has a good many) outside of their attack range and punish their jump ins with the appropriate anti air (in Rolento's case s.strong, s and j jab and of course c/s fierce. His footsies game allows for the throwing of air knives as chip damage and/or to keep the space open between him and his enemy. Thats some of the basic ways this term has been understood by me and there are many reasons more. If you look, as I'm sure every Rol player has, at BBC you can look at his movements and how they set up his attacks and fakes. He confuses his opponents and they become timid in how to approach him do to his footsies and what they set up. Rol has some of the best in the game IMO. I just took what he did and try to learn and develop my own style.

    4-How do the counter ACs work as in the video published above? I don't think I understand that aspect.

    5-I am in the Army atm and depolyed to Iraq we can't access GGPO. I would love to learn from skilled opponents on a daily basis. That will have to wait until next year!

    Thank for your replys. I'm learning alot.
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    Fair enough. And yes, I was indeed asking out of incredulity as, from my perspective, it's a bold claim to have "mastered footsie" coming from someone I have never seen, fought or heard of. You could either be really good, or quite awful.

    As for match-ups: there's not a lot to be said, here. He has both brutal and annoying answers to everything, including a normal that beats SPD. If a player with full health jumps at Rolento (especially without meter) while the Rolento player has a level 3: GG.

    While I cannot comment on exactly how the video was done, my guess is that it was intended to demonstrate the delayed AC reversal. I'm sure there's probably a billion posts about this on SRK, but here's my explanation:

    Input a special/super during the dead space of a cancel-able normal's input window such that the move does not come out if the opponent does not AC, and it does come out if they do. The dead space is in proportion to the AC start-up freeze such that the freeze compensates for the delayed input, rendering the normal still cancel-able in "game time". So it's just an option select. Rolento doesn't really rely on this method for countering AC's, though. His answer to AC's is usually spacing/spaced meaties. He can also use qcb+p or PPP to roll/flip out of many of them (for instance, versus Ken's Kick AC: cr.lpxxqcb+lp, AC whiffs, Rol thwaps with cr.frc. The cr.lp or cr.lk or cr.mk has to be done from pretty much max distance for this to work, as a plus, poking from that distance is typically the smart way to engage an opponent who has meter. Win/Win, unless they're scrubby enough to throw out a random Reppa or something). For Rose's punch AC, buffer a delayed level 1 kick super. Another honorable mention for his anti-AC game= j.mp and cr.mp (they're just not easy to AC for obvious reasons).

    There are less technical ways of countering AC's, of course. You can just yomi that shit down, or do it on reaction. The former being unnecessarily risky and the latter being pretty much specific to Zangief: "OMGZ SCREEN FREEZE PRESS ALL THREE PUNCHES!".

    Were you ever on GGPO?
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah he been on ggpo. I played him before. I WAS doing a match up chart, but my PC crashed :(
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    Is he any good? And what was his nick?
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    I was playin ST when i was online (and I consider myself pretty good). Mainly 2dfighter thou. I got GGPO later. Hope to play you when I get back, but thats a while from now!


    I've been playing a big of Rose and Gat. Rose feels really strong. Even her c.fp is just a nasty anti air and you can buffer it into super (which I can't do yet lol). Her weaknesses are almost non-existent. It seems as if Rolento and maybe Guy can give her a lil trouble. VS Rolento s.mk gives him some trouble if he is spamming low attacks. Guy's standing mk is good against her and his overhead is great to mix in.

    Gat is fun, but def limited by his normals. Seems c.short is good when people get close and you basically want to back them off you. I guess his kick AC is nice to knock them back to the other side. His tiger knee has pretty good recovery, when they block both hits (+ frames?). Standing MK is a good mid range poke. His s.strong is almost worthless cept as an anti air in certain situations. Which of his kick supers are better?

    I don't understand why Rol isn't top tier. I mean he has almost no bad match ups 3/7 (IMO). Does he have any 4/6? He has the 90% custom. Like you said earlier, nobody can really zone him. Great normals, anti airs and AC Not so great supers, limited combos and no real wake up. I think his damage potential is low outside of CC also, but not much lower than others. I mean he has to be #5 on the list, beating Gief and Sak.

    Just my thoughts ;-p
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • DJRedrumofEPGDJRedrumofEPG Violent Sumo Joined: Posts: 1,567
    Can someone enlighten me on how to "properly" use Adon? I just got told off by smartpatrol/MrDNA on GGPO about how I don't use him properly and I "poke like an idiot".

    Now...maybe I am just thinking about this wrong, but I thought that using pokes at max distance was a GOOD thing. He did bring up a good point about me throwing out pokes when he wasn't moving at all. Solid advice, because I can get CC'd for that. But, I don't understand what exactly Adon can do. He's not gonna rush down like other characters and afaik, his specials are pretty much worthless.
    Now you have learned the meaning of SUMO! DOSUKOI!! PSN id: KoreyKore USF4: Honda
  • DreamfireDreamfire ~And it's a long way forward, so trust in me. I'll give them shelter, like you've done for me.~ Joined: Posts: 167 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I assume you're talking about s.rh? If you're whiffing c.rh infront of him, yeah it's unsafe..probably even on hit. If you're whiffing s.rh he'd have to have pretty good reflexes to CC that, and you could probably whiff c.mp infront of him forever and he wouldn't really be able to CC that. You understand him perfectly, Adon is garbage :>
    <randomdps> Yes, it's like your characters are walking through a sea of gummy bears
    Darian on how slow A3 is.

    <Hakero> fucking brazil is in tropical geography
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    Adon's best quality lies in his ability to preemptively stuff CC activations. His footsie is perfectly built. His punch super has an enormous wall of a hitbox (tends to trade, though). His CC's do pretty serious damage. His throw is all around amazing. He makes funny sounds, and he's always smiling.

    His punch AC is hard to safe jump--> dp, and it's also difficult to AC reversal.
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I was playin ST when i was online (and I consider myself pretty good). Mainly 2dfighter thou. I got GGPO later. Hope to play you when I get back, but thats a while from now!


    I've been playing a big of Rose and Gat. Rose feels really strong. Even her c.fp is just a nasty anti air and you can buffer it into super (which I can't do yet lol). Her weaknesses are almost non-existent. It seems as if Rolento and maybe Guy can give her a lil trouble. VS Rolento s.mk gives him some trouble if he is spamming low attacks. Guy's standing mk is good against her and his overhead is great to mix in.

    Gat is fun, but def limited by his normals. Seems c.short is good when people get close and you basically want to back them off you. I guess his kick AC is nice to knock them back to the other side. His tiger knee has pretty good recovery, when they block both hits (+ frames?). Standing MK is a good mid range poke. His s.strong is almost worthless cept as an anti air in certain situations. Which of his kick supers are better?

    I don't understand why Rol isn't top tier. I mean he has almost no bad match ups 3/7 (IMO). Does he have any 4/6? He has the 90% custom. Like you said earlier, nobody can really zone him. Great normals, anti airs and AC Not so great supers, limited combos and no real wake up. I think his damage potential is low outside of CC also, but not much lower than others. I mean he has to be #5 on the list, beating Gief and Sak.

    Just my thoughts ;-p

    With no meter and his giant hitbox he gets rushed the fuck down. Otherwise he is fucking great. He also is one of the few who get fucked by Gief with no meter.
  • BleeperBleeper Joined: Posts: 122
    Adon Cr.mp is so godlike and he builds meter like a beast. Oh and QCF*2 K chips nicely.
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Adon kick super is a free ac at the end.

    Oh you can view hitboxes for alpha 2, just download the right emulator, load up a2 in it and go to file>run lua script whatever you name the hitboxes

    Vampire Savior: advanced link combos & important notes Some of them are pretty interesting to see, like all gief db cr kicks have the same hitbox
  • yatesyates RandomDragonPunches Joined: Posts: 66
    You can just CC it before the first hit connects, actually. DP's also beat it clean. Chun Li's st.lp beats it clean. Etc. You can also just walk under it.
    "I'm ALWAYS jacking off on GGPO." - dreamfire -
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