Cammy Guide (K, C grooves)

2

Comments

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Burghy
    ok guys I need the following information before I do some sections.

    1. Is far HP linkable into level 2 or only level 3 super?
    2. Is cr LP cr MK a viable link? I have no dreamcast but I recall trying that and finding it never linked.
    3. Does RC spiral arrow work as anti-air against Sagat? Apart from a very specific range at which st HK hits Sagta clean, all other angles trade for me for all anti-airs.

    I can't test this out because a) I don't have a DC at the moment and b) I can't RC for crap which is why I use Cammy and Sagat and not A-Sak/Bison/Blanka.

    4. If you don't have a level 3, what do you do in C groove against an Iori that does repeated RC rekkas?

    5. cr HP. What sort of angles/people is this a good anti-air against? I was told it's good against Blanka low jump, but I haven't used this move much at all.

    1. Any LEVEL
    2. YES I usually link crshort crjab cr forwardXX super after I jump nothing low jump or I cr jabx2 cr strong into spiral arrow. This works real well after corpse hops.
    3. YES. But hard timing somewhat I recommend cannon spike.
    what are you trading with? From like more than like half screen you'll trade with a jumping fierce kick. but anything within that range you'll hit clean with a st fierce kick. i like doing a deep st roundhouse as anti air and then canceling into a level 2 or 3 anti air super. it combos off the anti air close RH kick.
    4. PRAY or RC back or throw him on start up if he's cornering you.
    5. Just USE St roundhouse for low jumps don't know about cr fierce the only time I use it is welll never...... ....... after more test s..... its hard to judge or predict low jumps. most blankas and sagat hit clean if theyre in the right range. theyre too many variables to take into considerations..... some times it doesnt hurt to just block them. But if you in dire straight go ST rh!!
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hmm...

    For those of you that uses the hooligan(2369+p):

    You can cancel her lvl2 (either super) with 214+k(air), land, s.fierce(hits them when they are in the air) xx hooligan mixups. I don't like using that move either but that is the only time I would use it.

    Random stuff:

    I never stop my runs with a c.short. I always use s.jab so I can go into throws when I wiff it.

    Her crossup j.short, s.fierce is an easier link when they are crouching.

    I don't like her c.fierce as anti air. Why not use the dp+kick??

    Also, I have never seen anyone in RL or in vids use s.fwd ever.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Alphastorm
    Hmm...

    For those of you that uses the hooligan(2369+p):

    You can cancel her lvl2 (either super) with 214+k(air), land, s.fierce(hits them when they are in the air) xx hooligan mixups. I don't like using that move either but that is the only time I would use it.


    hehe how dare you steal my combo!!! LOL I posted that earlier in this thread btw. Cr Short hits low and you can combo off that. I like to mix up cr jab cr short in rush down. St mk is good because it has pretty good priority is fast and has range. Helps keep opponent pinned down. Its like Chunlis st mp but you can't cancel a special off the end of it, but its faster and has faster recovery than chunlis.
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sorry, I don't have time to read the whole thread. I only skimmed it. Can s.mk cancel into super? If s.mk is that good, how come I never see anyone use it?

    And I'm not saying I don't use c.short. I said I use s.jab to stop my run.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    LOL I was just joking about the combo.
    Yeah it can be canceled into any level super at any point of the normal. Ummm well ... She has ST RH which people like to whore out ALOT. People commonly overlook all of her other normals that are good like ST forward. Crouching forward almost has same range and hits low and has about same recovery so that tends to be better choice. I mean ST forward has like 1 pixel or so less range than st RH and has faster startup and recovery. Depends on your style. You can't just rely on whoring out ST rh all day your going to get supered. You gotta mix up the look and feel a bit if you know what I'm saying. Hope any of my educated nonsense helps. LOL
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ok one more thing I need for my guide

    Who must block Cammy's far MP while crouching?

    Also, a Sagat question.

    YOu know how Sagat vs Sagat, their far HP if you crouch block, you block it. But if you only crouch, you can duck it. Does the same thing happen with Cammy's far MP?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Cammy is one of the smallest sprites in the game, so I don't think she'd encouter that Sagat vs Sagat situation you just listed. Maybe on crouching Hibiki or something, because she's tiny as hell, but that's the only person I can think of.

    Pretty much any sprite larger than the standard (Ryu) will have to block Cammy's far mp even while crouching. So pretty much Sagat, Honda, Raiden, Gief, maybe Blanka (I'm like 90% sure), Yamazaki, and so on.
    I'm just posting because of S.RoundhouseXXsuper on reaction to every hit seems impossible, and after a counter hit doesn't make any sense..unless counter hits extend the cancelable frames in a normal???? I never heard of/noticed that

    No, counter hits cause more stun damage. Like with Kyo, you can like combo into CC and then juggle with normal combo into a dizzy, but it only works if you land the first jumping hit as a counter hit, because it does more stun. So technically, it gives you like a couple more frames leeway probably, but nothing really noticeable.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    5b. Mixups

    Every character has three basic mix-ups - crossups, high/low, and throws. Cammy excels in throws and is good at high/low mixups, but can't really use crossups as her jump is slow.

    You always have to set up your mixup things, or else the other guy will just press fierce punch and BAM you lose momentum and positioning and take a lot of damage. So first off, to set up your positioning, Cammy basically has to make them block a far HP.

    That should be easy to do so enough said about that. If you can't even do that then choose a scrubbier character to play. Like Cammy or something.

    OK once you
    have them where you want, here's a list of convenient moves that hit low: cr MK, cr LK, spiral arrow. These moves hit high: cannon strike, hop LK, hop HK.

    Cammy's low jump is rather slow, so it's hard to have high/low like Kyo does. Your main high/low will come from making them habitually block low by liberally using cr MK when they're on the ground. Then, you can get them with tiger knee cannon strikes (do them just as you leave the ground) which needs to be blocked high. Even if they block it you maintain the momentum if you're doing it right.

    Anyway there's nothing special to say about the high/low game with Cammy. However, she's really really good with throw setups because her moves have so much priority and most of them link into super, so the opponent will be scared to stick anything out. Probably only Blanka has more throw setups.

    Here's a list of the common ones:

    whiff tiger knee cannon strike -> either throw or close HP
    cr LK (hit or blocked) -> throw or close HP
    low jump LK (hit or blocked) -> throw or close HP
    close HP (blocked) -> walk forward a bit, throw or close HP. Patented scrub Cammy play!
    crossup LK, st LP (whiff), throw
    cr LK, st LP (whiff), throw
    cr LP, throw mix with cr MP -> combo (cr LP and cr MP have the same animation)
    cannon strike (hit or blocked) -> throw or close HP or close LK (more detail later)

    The last one deserves a little bit more explanation. Depending on how high you hit with the cannon strike, you can combo afterwards. If you can't, of course, you can immediately throw when you land (the hitstun on the thing is small). You should learn the area where she hits that will lead to either one. If you want to be more advanced, you should learn which strength of kick (they have different angles) will lead to which hit.

    Once you knock them down, you can have terrific fun with cannon strike! You can make the cannon strike either hit or whiff, and make it either cross up or not. You don't even have to guess because you can just hold a direction and press HP and then see what's up. Yay go Cammy!

    You can also dash over their body for dash crossups. Or dash and then do a cannon strike to crossup again! Or whiff crossup cannon strike into a cr LK combo! Or whatever! Just do a lot of crazy dash or cannon strike things and high/low games. Cammy is sort of like Kyo after a knockdown except not as scary.

    Anyway the point is after every cannon strike, cr LK or knockdown, you have advantage. So don't throw it away and pressure them. You can go back to pressing HP and HK once they manage to reset the match.
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by Burghy
    5b. Mixups

    Cammy excels in throws and is good at high/low mixups, but can't really use crossups as her jump is slow.



    when you get a knock down it doesn't matter that her jump is slow. You can still crossup short into mind games. And I think her low jump rh has a really long range and gives you plenty of time to combo into super if it hits.
  • noodlemannoodleman Cancer of GTASF Joined: Posts: 5,165
    Another use of her cross up lk is to mixup the timing for it.

    Do it high sometimes to go straight into a throw (becareful, they can throw you back), or do it low to start doing close FP into your regular mixups.

    Another mixup that i do sometimes is walk up cr.mk. walk up to the point where they'd have to block rh, and then just hit down+mk at the same time for a practically instant low hit. I get a couple of free hits because people are use to the regular rh whoring and just block high. This is especailly painful if you're raged, since one slip up like that and they'll be eating a lvl3 super.

    There's a couple of things you have to watch out about cammy's throws. Her throw range ISN'T larger than anyone elses, it's just that she's thin so that the throw range is longer by proportion.

    Lastly, a question. Since throwing is a large part of Cammy's game, what do you recommend doing after a teched throw? I do cr.mk by instinct, which usually trades or gets blocked. Is there anykind of thing you can do other than that?
    "You'd be better off falling asleep with the taste of my crotch in your mouth." - Miyavi

    "no no! it don't hurt if spoon is greasy!" - Zangief Chronicles.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by noodleman
    Her throw range ISN'T larger than anyone elses, it's just that she's thin so that the throw range is longer by proportion.

    Then whey can she throw me when im further away, but if i try to throw at same distance i get wiffed move?
  • noodlemannoodleman Cancer of GTASF Joined: Posts: 5,165
    if you refer to...

    http://www.shoryuken.com/games/cvs2/strats/files/throwdata.shtml

    you'll see that cammys throw range is like everyone else's...at 52 pixels. i think the difference is that at 52 pixels from the centre of the sprite, so when cammy's 52 pixels hit the opponents sprite for the throw, your opponent's 52 pixels can't reach cammy (cause her sprite is thinner), giving some an advantage.

    I guess what i'm trying to say is that we're both partially right. Her throw range is the same number is almost everyone, but since her sprite is thinner, she can throw people before your opponent throws.
    "You'd be better off falling asleep with the taste of my crotch in your mouth." - Miyavi

    "no no! it don't hurt if spoon is greasy!" - Zangief Chronicles.
  • jreinert13jreinert13 Smoked out Member Joined: Posts: 899
    Originally posted by Mummy-B

    No, counter hits cause more stun damage. Like with Kyo, you can like combo into CC and then juggle with normal combo into a dizzy, but it only works if you land the first jumping hit as a counter hit, because it does more stun. So technically, it gives you like a couple more frames leeway probably, but nothing really noticeable.

    I really hate beating this topic to death...

    I know counter hits extend stun frames. I was just confused to why a counter hit was relevant to S.Rh XX Super. Since the stun time isn't long enough to link the level 3, you have to still cancel the super for it to combo. So unless the cancelable frames are extended, the extra stun frames mean nothing.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was under the impression you could pretty much cancel the stand roundhouse just about anytime after it connects (blocked or not) while it's still in animation sequence. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't do the rh XX super very often.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    mixup:

    i don't think this will happen to often in real matches but this looks cool.

    after a real close knockdown, lk cannon spike. it's a right/left mixup.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I tried this C combo .... HP does not connect. thanks
  • jreinert13jreinert13 Smoked out Member Joined: Posts: 899
    One thing I discovered while experimenting with Cammy this week was that she can link Cannon Spike after a meaty C.Strong(if this has already been mentioned in this thread sorry). It only seems to work on crouching opponents, It might and probably is possible on standing opponents but if thats so the timing is very strict.

    Don't really know how useful this is until I see how easy I can link Cannon Spike on reaction to every hit. If I can get it to about 95+% then I'll probably use it instead of C.Strong->C.Strong->Cannon Arrow
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    but cr strong, cr strong, spiral arrow does more damage than cr strong, cannon spike!


    For the C groove level 2 cancel, you have to be fast. thanks
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks for flooding this thread with junk and making it unreadable guys :).

    Burghy:
    Wonderful job writing to people who don't know how to read.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by kcxj
    Wonderful job writing to people who don't know how to read.
    :D :D :D :D


    I've decided to post everything in a new thread after I have the guide finished. There's too much stuff here to expect everyone to delete their things :)

    Although, some of the postings were useful!

    Anyway I'm almost onto the character matchups.

    Random questions!

    1. Am I correct in that C-Cammy basically has no counter to Iori's repeated RC rekka? What's the frame deal on that thing?

    2. What can I punish a blocked Mister Bison scissors with apart from super or a single cr LK?
  • jreinert13jreinert13 Smoked out Member Joined: Posts: 899
    my point was if I could get C.Strong->link Cannon Spike more consistently than C.Strongx2->Cannon Arrow I'd rather use that because if you fuck up either combo you're going to lose a lot of damage.


    Bisons short Scissor kick is unpunishable from a certain range against Cammy(besides lvl 3 I think). But if you ever block 2 hits of it, you can punish with C.Forward or S.Strong pretty easily. Scissor kicks shouldn't be much of a problem since Cammy moves around so fast(difficult for Bison to get in that perfect range)

    repeated RC Rekkas should not be a problem. At certain ranges you can just throw him right out of the move, especially if you're cornered.
    You can easily RC Spiral Arrow him back if you know he's going to do another rekka
    you can super jump back(even up I think) then dive kick counter hit into combo
    You can lvl 3 QCBx2 K to punish a blocked rekka

    and uhh just keep pressing roundhouse...and umm if you see it counter hit just super on reaction, that works too.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    5d. Basic combos

    Here I introduce combos you should know. I list them in the order that you should learn them.

    i) cr MP, cr MK -> qcf+K (2700 damage)

    This is the most important Cammy combo. The link is easy, but you never want to mess it up. Not much to say here except that at maximum cr MP range, or if you counterpoked with cr MP, the spiral arrow won't combo. At close range it will always combo. Therefore, learn at what distance the thing will combo. Don't embarrass yourself by getting a spiral arrow blocked.


    ii) close HP, link qcfx2+HK (?? damage)

    This combo is so completely braindead you should get it 100% after practicing for a minute. After the facepunch you have enough time for a cigarette break before you link the super. There are more damaging super combos but I list this because it's your "safety" super combo. Every character needs something you can rely on 100% under pressure, and this is it for Cammy.

    I don't know how much damage this does. Please someone give me a CvS2 Dreamcast CD :(


    iii) close HP, cr MK -> qcf+HK (?? damage)

    This combo connects on certain characters point blank or after a crossup LK. Against them, this should be your basic combo instead of combo i) above. It connects on "fat" characters. The ones I know it will work for sure on are Blanka, E Honda, Zangief, Raiden, and Chang. I do not know if this works on any other people, but it doesn't work on all the other popular characters.


    iv) far HP, qcfx2+HK (?? damage)

    This link is also really easy but slightly harder than combo ii). There should be no reason you ever have this combo blocked. It links easily. Just remember that far HP recovers quicker than you think it does.

    Having this combo down is incredibly useful because it increases Cammy's scare range significantly. This is good. I can get this 100% under pressure on normal speed settings, and I suck at combos, so there is no reason you can't get this too. You can also see if it hits on ground, hits in air, or is blocked first before doing the super.


    v) jump HP, close HP -> qcf+MK (?? damage. Or does qcf+HK do more damage? Where are you CVS2 CD?)

    This is dizzy punishing or telegraphed fireball punishing combo. It's the most damaging combo Cammy has without a super. Yeah. Not much to say. But you still need to practice this because the jump HP, close HP thing isn't as simple as it looks (you need to do jump HP late).


    vi) low jump HP, qcfx2+K (K groove only) (?? damage)

    Practice this to add additional scare factor to Angry Cammy. The timing for it is the same as Sagat's low jump HK, super. Then just go nuts with this and be crazy!


    vii) cr MP, cr MP -> qcf+K (2700 damage)

    This combo is like combo i) above except it needs to be closer. On the other hand, if the second cr MP connects, you are guaranteed the spiral arrow without needing to judge distances. If you're lazy or under pressure, do this combo instead. [Note: I recommend combo i) instead though, because you can get slightly more range from which the full combo connects, and because the cr MK will hit low]


    viii) far HK -> qcfx2+HK (?? damage)

    This is the combo I wish I could get on reaction. Or even get consistently. Anyway, this will increase Cammy's scare range even further to ridiculous extremes!

    Despite what other people say, I think this combo is quite hard to pull off under pressure. Also, you probably need good reactions to see whether it hits first before doing the super (getting a counter hit won't make it easier). You are supposed to press HK, move the qcfx2 joystick motion, and then wait to see if it hits before pressing kick again. This gives you the maximum amount of time to see whether it hits or not.

    You should practice this and be able to get it on reaction if you want to be some super good Cammy player. But don't feel bad if you can't because you just need to move in slightly close for far HP range. If you can't get it, use the combo I use:

    viii2) far HK -> nothing (1000 damage)


    ix) cr MK -> qcfx2+MK/HK (?? damage)

    This combo is useful if you can get it consistently. No one can see if it hits and do the super on reaction, don't worry. What this is useful for is, cr MK is Cammy's fastest and furthest reaching normal move (far HK has more range but is slower) so you use it to punish small mistakes or after just defends in K groove. Did Sagat just have a close HP blocked? Oops, cr MK -> super!


    x) cr LK x 3 -> qcfx2+MK/HK (?? damage)

    This will make your high/low mixup scarier. Empty low jump into this combo! You have enough time to see whether it hits before you do it.

    I can't give advice on how to do it because I can't get this combo to work. But I saw some guy do it consistently. I was going to ask him but I felt embarrassed to because I had just OCVed him.


    xi) cr MP, st MP -> qcf+HK (?? damage)

    I need to check whethe 1 hit qcf+HK does more or less damage than qcf+MK. Anyway, this combo works on Tallguys. So do it against Tallguys. The link is about the same difficult as cr MK link, but the advantage of this is that you have more frame advantage if it is blocked.


    xii) cr MP, cr MK -> qcfx2+MK/HK (?? damage)

    Yeah! The link gives you loads of time to combo into super. So if you can do combo ix), there's no excuse not to tag on the super every time. Basically Cammy can combo a super from almost anything. Scary!

    xiii) After connected qcfx2+MK, cancel air qcb+K (whiff), close HP -> db, qcf, uf+HP, P/K

    Any time after you connect a level 2, you should try to do this. Cancel immediately after the last hit into whiff cannon strike. Then you have plenty of time to hit them with close HP and cancel into the rolling Cammy ball for a throw/dive kick mixup. You can vary how late you hit with the close HP too. Play around with this.

    Note: Don't do this if they are raged or show indications of being ready with a level 3. This is painful for you.

    xiv) close HP, far HP, link qcfx2+HK

    The most damaging ground combo against fatguys (e.g. Blanka, E. Honda). The far HP links easily from close HP. Also the far HP does 100 more damage than far HK and the super is much easier to get afterwards.


    xv) jump HP, close HP, far HK -> qcfx2+HK

    The most damaging combo Cammy has, if they're dizzy and you have lots of meter. Substitute jump HK for jump HP for 100 less damage but more priority and ease of execution.


    xvi) air qcb+K, close HP, -> stuff

    Hit them at their toes, and the close HP will combo. Then follow with either far HK -> super, or... not.


    xvii) cr LP, close HP, link qcfx2+MK

    cr LP links easily into close HP. The main use though is this give you an easy to set up throw/fierce guessing game.



    This section may be revised in the future when I get some CvS2 Dreamcast CD!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Fake stuff that burghy told me and I actually believed:

    "Sagat can duck under another Sagat's far s.HP if he's not blocking."

    "d.MP, d.MK xx cannon drill is a better combo because d.MK hits low."

    I should take you to McDonald's and smear hot french fries into your face like an abusive parent you liar.

    That Sagat thing made me eat s.HP xx super the other day and it sucked.

    d.MP, d.MP xx cannon drill is a better combo because it always combos no matter what. If you hit with the d.MP's you're always going to get a guaranteed cannon drill after. With d.MK, you're sometimes pushed to a distance too far away so the drill doesn't combo.

    d.MP, cannon spike doesn't link either. d.MP, level three links beautifully though. You can do it from like half screen away if you get a counter hit d.MP.
  • jreinert13jreinert13 Smoked out Member Joined: Posts: 899
    Originally posted by kcxj


    d.MP, cannon spike doesn't link either. d.MP, level three links beautifully though. You can do it from like half screen away if you get a counter hit d.MP.

    It does work. Your opponent has to be ducking, thats the only restriction(character become fatter when they duck/their hitboxes extend horizontally). It's not at all dificult either(easier than mp->mp)..completely practical.
    I don't know if it works on all characters, but I know it definetly works on Cammy...so I'd imagine it combos on everyone.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    aha I'm a liar.
    I tried that sagat vs sagat thing out and I was wrong after all :)

    It only works if Sagat is doing cr hp (he'll duck under the thingy)

    Also I said the exact same thing you said in combos i) and vii) so I"m not a liar.
  • delmari001delmari001 Joined: Posts: 59
    great thread

    loads of info on Cammy...I'm gonna work her into my C-groove Ryo, R2 Joe team. I can't wait to practice with her. keep it comin thanx
    Spanky
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'll draw this out re cr mp x 2 spiral arrow and cr mp cr mk spiral arrow.


    Okay! Distances.

    let "C" represent Cammy and "D" represent the other person.

    1. Close range

    C________D


    At this range, both combos will fully connect! So there's no difference between them.

    2. Medium range

    C______________D

    At this range, the cr mp x 2 combo won't connect because the second cr mp will whiff. But the full cr mp, cr mk, qcf+K combo will connect!

    3. Far range

    C______________________D

    At this range the cr mp x 2 combo won't connect. the cr mp, cr mk qcf+K combo will connect up to cr mk. But then the qcf+K will get blocked and you will eat a huge combo!

    4. Max range

    C__________________________D

    At this range, cr mp x 2 combo won't connect. cr mp, cr mk will connect for two hits. But then qcf+LK will be safe if blocked.


    Anyway that's my summary of what ranges you should use the combos!
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    For the fierce, fierce xx qcfx2+k super:

    I hit fierce, qcf+fierce, qcf+kick. It's much easier imo.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Alphastorm
    For the fierce, fierce xx qcfx2+k super:

    I hit fierce, qcf+fierce, qcf+kick. It's much easier imo.

    No, it's not. I bet you get a lot of standing fierce, ducking HK (blocked) xx nothing too. The whole idea of that combo is to think of the s.HK xx super as one move. Go close and press s.HP. If it hits, great. s.HK xx super after that. If it doesn't hit, don't do s.HK xx super. By breaking down the combo into three individual motions, you're making things needlessly complicated I think. :D

    Burghy:

    How about listing some more combo setups? You know... crosses up, don't cross up, stuff like that.

    Examples: (from CvS1, but works just as great in CvS2)

    -after close s.HP xx qcf+HK combo, deep cross up normal jump LK. The cross up LK here hits really, really meaty. It's great. If the opponent likes to safe fall, mix that up with s.HKing them or something.

    -close Level 3 Spin Drive Smasher (like for punishing a blocked Joe slide etc...), deep cross up super jump LK.
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by kcxj


    No, it's not. I bet you get a lot of standing fierce, ducking HK (blocked) xx nothing too. The whole idea of that combo is to think of the s.HK xx super as one move. Go close and press s.HP. If it hits, great. s.HK xx super after that. If it doesn't hit, don't do s.HK xx super. By breaking down the combo into three individual motions, you're making things needlessly complicated I think. :D


    Well just my opinion. Everyone should use a method that suits them. The combo isn't practical anyway. It does not work on small characters. I always do fierce, rh xx super because that hits everyone.
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by kcxj


    Oh, you were talking about s.HP, far s.HP super. My mistake. I thought you made a typo.

    right. I feel there is less time to do far fierce xx super than rh xx super. That is why I do it as fierce, qcf+farfierce, qcf+kick. No kicks should ever come out.

    Anyway, I've discarded the 2 fierce xx super combo from my gameplay because the risks involved isn't worth the extra 100pts in dmg.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Alphastorm

    right. I feel there is less time to do far fierce xx super than rh xx super. That is why I do it as fierce, qcf+farfierce, qcf+kick. No kicks should ever come out.

    far fierce xx super has infinitely more time than rh xx super.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Cammy - corner

    As Cammy, you want your opponent to be in the corner. It is advantageous to you because now you can hit him with lots of things and he can't jump back or run away to avoid your attacks.

    Liberal use of st HK and st HP will stuff all hops and jumps. Incredibly, if you press forward while doing these moves to stuff hops and jumps, you will stuff all rolls too as you will throw them! Top tier Cammy strategy: Be 2-3 character widths away from them, hold towards on the joystick, press HK and HP at random times!

    Sometimes character with high priority jumping attacks will jump back and try to hit you with them (e.g. Sagat jump HK, Bison jump HK). You don't need to worry about this. Just run or dash in and do close HK, which is a move with tremendous vertical reach. Then you can hit them with attacks again.

    With the corner, you can even play less risky and go for less mixups. Because of your incredibly positioning advantage, you can now play for a guard crush. Any attempt to escape the corner, if you are ready for it, will meet with big damage and a return to the corner (exception: Bison's psycho crusher). Meanwhile you wear down their guard bar and get ready to do a huge combo. K groove Cammy especially benefits from corner because now she has a good way to land a level 3.

    Summary: Corner good


    Dizzy

    Every character in this game has either 60, 70 or 80 stun points. Stun points will reset if the character is not hit or blocks an attack for around 2 "free" seconds (i.e. not in hitstun or falling back from an attack in the air, but free to move and attack). Throws will reset the stun meter as they do not count as an attack.

    All of Cammy's moves do (damage/100) stun points. Stun points is not affected by damage scaling (e.g. a cannon spike at the end of a L2 spin dive smasher does just as much stun as a cannon spike alone). Cammy can dizzy well against certain characters if you play the aggressive 'in your face' style and avoid throw mixups, but the conventional poking style will not let you stun. Super moves do not do stun damage.

    You know how people say that crazy skilled Japanese players mentally keep a point count of how close the other person is to being dizzied? It's really easy! Let me tell you how.

    First, of course, you will need to know the opponent's stun point. Extra tough guys like Sagat have 80. Weaklings like Yun have 60. Normal characters have 70.

    Here's a list of the stun point total of a short selection of non-sucky characters:


    Cammy: 60
    Blanka: ?
    Sagat: 80
    Bison: ?
    Sakura: ?
    Iori: ?
    Chun Li: ?
    Athena: 60
    Kyo: ?
    Geese: 80


    Now to simplify your point count, divide the character's stun point by 10. I call this the Burghystun total. For example, Cammy will have 6 Burghystun points. Instead of counting the stun points and losing concentration on addition, use the simplified Burghystun meter instead!


    Move Burghystun points
    ----

    close or far HP 1
    close or far HK 1
    jump HP or jump HK 1
    cannon spike 1
    spiral arrow 1
    cr MP or st MP 1
    cr MK or st MK 1
    dive kick 1
    jump LK 0


    When the Burghystun equals your opponent's Burghystun total, he will either be dizzied or one hit away from dizzy. Note that some moves do slightly more than 1 Burghystun point (e.g. cannon spike), but those are balanced by ones that do slightly less (e.g. cr MP).

    When you are one Burghystun point away from their Burghystun total, try to play for a dizzy. This is pretty straightforward: don't go for throws, and don't run away. Apart from that, just continue doing what you were doing earlier. Note how every common Cammy move apart from jump LK does 1 Burghystun point, so it's really easy to keep track of in a match.

    This table assumes that any connected cr MP, cr MK will be followed by a spiral arrow. If you are not in the habit of completing your combos, you can make Burghystun slightly more complex, but more accurate, by accounting for all medium moves as 2/3rds of a Burghystun point, and cannon spike and spiral arrow as 4/3rds of a Burghystun point. I actually finish my combos, though, so I haven't had the need to do this.

    Burghystun works!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    6b. Sagat


    This matchup is about even but even a small difference in skill will lead to a totally lopsided result because of the nature of the matchup.

    This is completely about superior poking skills. Jumping by either character is banned because of tiger uppercut and cannon spike/st HK. Even low jumps aren't safe against Sagat because of his skilled tactic of mash on random buttons to trade in his favour. You can low jump and hope for a conencted jump HP -> L3 when you are raged, though.

    A note on damage: Sagat does around 75% more damage than Cammy for equivalent. A raged Cammy does around 10% less damage to Sagat for equivalent moves. This is why you shouldn't trade with Sagat.

    Don't try to play in close with Sagat. His huge damage makes this dangerous for you - if you make a small mistake, it's TIGER FRIENDS! TIGER UPPERCUT! and half your life is gone and he has you in the corner. You should be using only three pokes: st HK, cr MK and perfectly spaced qcf+LK. (You can use qcf+LK because if Sagat jumps on reaction, he is too slow to punish you. And it's counterintuitive to roll a spiral arrow so most Sagats will not do this).

    Don't get trapped in the corner because then you are at a huge disadvantage in getting to your optimal poke range. Conversely, get Sagat in the corner because then you can kick him a lot.

    If you block a tiger friends (qcbx2+K) from Sagat, normally you can crouch and hit Sagat back with a st HK -> super after he lands. You can't do this if you're in the corner, which is another reason to avoid the corner.

    A note on how to prevent Sagat jumping or low jumping:

    Perfectly spaced st HK will hit all of Sagat's jump attacks clean (including jump HK and jump LK). If you don't space it right, you will trade in Sagat's favor. At angles where st HK will trade (i.e. Sagat will kick your head), use a late cannon spike instead. Unless the Sagat player is very good, you can do st HK on reaction to low jumps and you will usually hit him clean.

    If Sagat knocks you down and goes for a crossup LK, cannon spike him.

    Random notes:
    You can't punish Sagat after you just defend a cr HP.

    His tiger shot (qcf+P/K) sucks and you should punish him severely with a super if he ever does these.

    You have frame advantage after a blocked tiger crush.





    6g. Athena


    Put some other character up against Athena if you can! Because this fight is much pain and no gain for you.

    Athena's top tier tactic against Cammy is to press cr HP a lot. It trades or stuffs poorly timed cannon spikes, trades with cannon strike in Athena's favour, beats or trades favorably with all other jump attacks, and beats every singly one of Cammy's pokes clean. The only thing Cammy has that beats this cleanly is L2/L3 spin dive smasher, or RC spiral arrow. Not exactly the safest things to use. Because Athena's tiny and crouches low, you can't even cross her up because her cr HP will hit you. You don't have time to retaliate after you just defend a cr HP. This matchup is a horrible of the century.

    If you do get in this situation, remember that many scrub athenas will do two cr HPs in a row. This is your cue to L2/L3 them or cannon spike. Athena has poor vitality so your strategy should be to hit her a lot. You don't want to rely on Cammy's pokes here; instead, get right in her face and do your mixups. Be careful though because if you are careless, you eat any level shining crystal bit and it's back to getting your knees pushed again!

    Random notes:

    Athena really doesn't need to do anything else. Wall start!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Burghy, I keep all this junk in mind when I play against Sagat too.

    Far s.MP is good against Sagat. It reaches out far and leaves you and Sagat even on frames (ie. you can set up a counter hit s.HK). Also combos into spiral arrow when you're too far away to do anything else.

    RC spiral arrows aren't bad either. They have to be spaced perfectly and used conservatively though. I only use LK and MK versions (MK to go through low tiger shot block strings).

    I'm not afraid to use far s.HP either. If you only s.HK all the time, Sagat is eventually going to roll, SUPER!!! and it's going to suck. Far s.HP is safe from roll. Also, when you ever get a counter hit (the startup for Cammy HP's are very fast) it's free link level 3 afterwards always.
    Cammy's also a big crossup target believe it or not. Blanka s.MP can hit her (ie. she's as considered as tall as Vega). That's a liability you have to watch out for. If you ever stand still or just block, Sagat crossup LK will get you. Always keep moving with Cammy to avoid that. You have to use her fast walk speed to your advantage.
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Just to clarify, for dizzy point counting. Here's the Stun Meter Chart from James Chen Systems guide.



    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Stun Meter of 60: Akuma, Athena, Benimaru, Blood Iori, Cammy,
    Dhalsim, Evil Ryu, God Rugal, Hibiki, Kyosuke,
    Mai, Morrigan, Nakoruru, Rolento, Sakura,
    Shin Gouki, Vega, Yun, Yuri

    Stun Meter of 70: Balrog, Blanka, Chun Li, Dan, Eagle, Geese,
    Guile, Haohmaru, Iori, Joe, Ken, Kim, King,
    Kyo, Maki, M. Bison, Rock, Rugal, Ryo, Ryu,
    Sagat, Terry, Todo, Vice, Yamazaki

    Stun Meter of 80: Chang, E.Honda, Raiden, Zangief

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks to you both.

    Edit: I updated with this information in my 'master' cammy file which I'll repost once it's done.
  • AlphastormAlphastorm SRK's Kingofbeatdown Joined: Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Dillay Pokai. Where can I play cvs2 in HK?
  • noodlemannoodleman Cancer of GTASF Joined: Posts: 5,165
    Originally posted by Alphastorm
    Dillay Pokai. Where can I play cvs2 in HK?

    haha, didn't know you were typing chinglish until i read it again, haha! Sorry Burghy for these random posts on your thread, but it's just too funny for me =p
    "You'd be better off falling asleep with the taste of my crotch in your mouth." - Miyavi

    "no no! it don't hurt if spoon is greasy!" - Zangief Chronicles.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    There's this arcade in Causeway Bay. However, people here hate playing with skill and prefer to be scrubby KOF-style mindless attack players. Because that's "fun"! Therefore it's all on speed 5. Want to be able to block Blanka/Vega/Mai/Rock/Rolento low jumps on reaction? No thanks!
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