Zangeif Thread

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  • Master BigodeMaster Bigode Touhoufag Joined: Posts: 879
    so what's the trick to doing a standing 360 spd consistently? so far i'm just rotating the joystick in a fast 360 motion and it comes out randomly. i have a slow wrist.
    IMO, the :hcf::uf:/:hcb::ub: motions are the most comfortable, and I can get a SPD to come out easily using then.
    If you need to practice SPD motions, try playing SF EX2+, I've learned how to SPD consistently from it.
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  • JubeiNinja69JubeiNinja69 Playing To Win Joined: Posts: 1,158
    wow i can confirm that :hcb::ub::u: most definitely works for me. master bigode i don't know how you got it working without adding an up motion, but it really helps me. i'm like getting standing spd like 9/10 times. i think it has to be at least a 270 degree motion like ultradavid said. now i'm gonna go practice the tick into super. i think it has it uses.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I always wondered about this, because in the "Street Fighter 2 Expert Players Handbook" (lol), which is for the SNES, Megadrive/Genesis and arcade Super SF2, it lists some weird ways to perform the SPD. It's also co-written by James Goddard, who worked on SF2' and Super I think?

    It says to do it from standing you start at neutral and do :hcb::ub: like Master Bigode said. I assume if that works it's because of neutral counting as one of the points you have to pass for the "270".

    The other motion listed is for walking in and it goes :hcb: then pass through neutral to go back to towards. That would be the same number of points as before, except you wouldn't even go through any of the jumping positions.

    So does this work? I had a go on CCC2 ST and got the SPD from it a few times, but it could have been that I went to an up position without noticing. Also I edited this post because I misread the book.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think the best way to do a 360 is :hcf::ub:
    I've read in this thread that you have at least do a 270 motion, but hcf + up/back works fine for me.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I press up at the end of the SPD, but I press punch (someones I piano the buttons using 2 punches) when I get to the u/f or u/b part of the motion. That way, you will be more likely to get the SPD without jumping. Hope that helps.
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Pressing the buttons before you have the motion finished isn't a good idea. You'll probably still get the move out if you're moving the stick quickly enough, but you risk kara canceling a normal move into the spd, that is, bringing out a normal for a couple frames and canceling into a special move before the normal hits. This will make your spd come out a couple frames after it should, meaning that your tick will become less tight or your walk-up spd will come out less quickly, and that means the opponent has a better chance to escape and you're being less effective than you could be. Make sure to complete the necessary motion inputs before pressing punch.

    Start pressing buttons when you get to the 270 degree mark because, regardless of what anyone says, 270 is the minimum required, and that has been shown by programmable-pad testing in Kawaks. So rotate the stick 270 degrees (aka back, down, toward, up), drum the buttons, and complete the full 360 motion just to make sure you get the move out.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I guess I didn't explain very well. When I get to the last parts of the motion, I go fast, so it's more a timing thing for me, but your advice is much better. Pressing 2 punches is only done when I want to make sure that it is going to come out (you know how sometimes things can get hectic and you can do things too early or late). On a pad, I just press 1 punch button and do what you said, which works all the time.

    Anyways, what are your thoughts on the Chun-li matchup? Almost a lost cause?
  • NoAffinityNoAffinity Saikyooooooo!!!! Joined: Posts: 484 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    SPD i got down, now put this in your pipe and smoke it...
    Kara Banishing fist, discuss!!

    Are we talking simply doing a kara banishing fist, or comboing it in a situation where banishing fist wouldn't be comboable (is it even comboable?)? Piano technique will get you a standard, no-frills kara banishing fist...but what would be the advantages?
  • El Ton-KEl Ton-K Joined: Posts: 193
    I don't know if this has been discussed or not but.

    Does FAB grab reversal moves like T.Hawks super?
    I know that the jumping splash in cross up beats some reversals like SRK
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    My favorite SPD motion is :r::l::db::d::u:
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    I don't know if this has been discussed or not but.

    Does FAB grab reversal moves like T.Hawks super?
    I know that the jumping splash in cross up beats some reversals like SRK
    I'm not really sure what you're asking.

    Are you asking if Gief's grab super takes priority over Hawk's grab super? Well, Gief's super has more range, but if both players are in range and input their super at the exact same frame, no, Gief's doesn't take priority; the game does what it always does when grabs are done on the same frame, which is to just randomly pick who gets the grab.

    And yes, crossup jumping splash beats some reversals, like DeeJay's upkicks and Sagat's uppercut. It also lands before it can be hit by most other reversals (that is, it's a great safe jump, where if the opponent does nothing they have to block, but if they do a reversal you land before the reversal can hit you).
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ^ actually T.Hawk has more range on his super than Gief. Although, Gief's SPD appears to outrange T.Hawk completely.
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Hm, I just looked it up, and you're right. It's always seemed the other way to me.
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  • El Ton-KEl Ton-K Joined: Posts: 193
    No, what I mean is hat T.Hawks super grabs reversals, I wanted to know if Gief's super grabs reversals as well
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Hawk's super grabs reversals? I guess it grabs reversal fireballs and psycho crushers, but I've never seen it grab reversal dragon punches.
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  • El Ton-KEl Ton-K Joined: Posts: 193
    It does grab them, I've seen it and here's a vid proving it NKI I just wanted to know if Giefs' super grabs them too
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Just watched that vid, interesting stuff.

    If you're talking about when Hawk supers Boxer's reversal, that reversal was a turn punch, which is totally throwable. If you're talking about when Hawk reversal supers Ryu's dragon punch, I guess the dragon punch has a throwable frame there, and I'm sure Gief's super could do the same thing.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I've 720'd DPs before with Hawk.

    If gief can do it, Hawk can too. A grab is a grab right? Just gotta be in range, opponent is throw-able, yada yada.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    There is nothing significant about Hawk grabbing Ryu's DP in NKI's video. Well, okay, it IS really tough to do, and NKI pulling it off for the video was awesome. ^_^ But the reason it happens isn't because of anything special about Hawk's Super. Ryu (and Ken, actually) just has one frame of his DP where he can be thrown, right before he leaves the floor. And you just have to time it properly to grab him in that very frame.

    Majestros does it as well in his video at one point. It's really hard to see, but you'll see a sequence where Ken does a DP right when Guile lands in to the corner from a throw, and Guile throws him out of the DP (you really need to watch it frame by frame to see it happening).

    So yeah, you don't even need Hawk's Super to grab Ryu out of that frame. You could have done it with the regular 360 if you wanted. And by that logic, Zangief can also grab Ryu out of that frame of the DP.

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  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    I'd like to ask your guys' input about his double German suplex (the 360+K move done within close range) I noticed it does more damage than SPD, but then again you can't do it at SPD range otherwise you get the "Touchdown!" move.
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    The suplex is not something to be used often. It does more damage than spd, but because its range sucks you can't really do more than one very close tick before you hit it. Say Guile whiffs a flash kick and it just misses you; you could do suplex because it's more damaging than spd alone, but if you do crouching jab crouching short into spd you do more damage, and since Guile hasn't recharged his flash kick yet there's no chance of you getting hurt. If Ryu whiffs a dragon punch such that it just misses you, and you know the opponent if great at reversals so ticking into spd isn't a good idea, then doing suplex to punish is better.

    That's not to say you should never tick into it. Close jumping roundhouse into suplex does almost half life, for example. But this is rare and situational and character specific, so don't get used to it. In general you wanna stick with piledrivers.

    Also, the only version of this you should ever use is roundhouse, since not only does it do more damage, but it actually has considerably greater range than the short and forward.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    There is nothing significant about Hawk grabbing Ryu's DP in NKI's video. Well, okay, it IS really tough to do, and NKI pulling it off for the video was awesome. ^_^ But the reason it happens isn't because of anything special about Hawk's Super. Ryu (and Ken, actually) just has one frame of his DP where he can be thrown, right before he leaves the floor. And you just have to time it properly to grab him in that very frame.

    Majestros does it as well in his video at one point. It's really hard to see, but you'll see a sequence where Ken does a DP right when Guile lands in to the corner from a throw, and Guile throws him out of the DP (you really need to watch it frame by frame to see it happening).

    So yeah, you don't even need Hawk's Super to grab Ryu out of that frame. You could have done it with the regular 360 if you wanted. And by that logic, Zangief can also grab Ryu out of that frame of the DP.

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    That only works on new school DP's? Old characters are ungrabable in their DP?
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  • logiclvlogiclv Washed up veteran Joined: Posts: 97
    No, what I mean is hat T.Hawks super grabs reversals, I wanted to know if Gief's super grabs reversals as well

    yay, finally i have something to add, and i dont even really use gief. but anyway, sirlin's tutorials state that a dragon punch doesnt hit till after the 5th frame, so its safe to assume that you can throw during the first 4 frames.


    watch the part about safe jumps
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  • El Ton-KEl Ton-K Joined: Posts: 193
    Actually they are invincible during those frames. However they have a throwable frame but I'm not sure witch one it is
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  • logiclvlogiclv Washed up veteran Joined: Posts: 97
    i thought you could SPD during the first 4 frames? idk, i dont really use command throwers, i like to DP reversal those darn throwers instead. = P
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    No, those frames are invincible, but there's randomly a frame at the end of that that's throwable, like just before Ryu actually leaves his feet, around frame 5 or so. Not too useful for Zangief, though, since the dp will hit his spd whiff if he misses that one frame.
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  • MokuraMokura Joined: Posts: 148
    I play whit the D-Pad 100% of the time.
    To do a SPD, just do a :hcb: :ub:.
    Maybe you are doing the motion too slow or too fast...

    I'd skip that Up-Left..that's gonna make you jump prematurely; go straight to Up. And has anybody realized the benefit of reversing w/ an up-side down negative edge KICK 360 from REALLY close? Say, after Fei's "Chicken Wing"? It's fool-proof.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    That only works on new school DP's? Old characters are ungrabable in their DP?

    If I'm not mistaken, that is correct. O.Ryu and O.Ken cannot be grabbed out of their DP's since they are completely invincible.

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  • Professor JonesProfessor Jones Joined: Posts: 213
    New Ryu and Ken are also completely invincible at the beginning of their dp's, but for a shorter time.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    I'd like to ask your guys' input about his double German suplex (the 360+K move done within close range) I noticed it does more damage than SPD, but then again you can't do it at SPD range otherwise you get the "Touchdown!" move.
    Two good things about 360+K...

    1) The close version fills up your meter 50%. :wow:
    2) The far version grabs on the first possible frame, so you can set up perfectly timed ticks more easily.

    An example of number 2, if you knock down Dic, you can do [cross-up splash, cr.Forward xx 360+RH], and Gief will grab Dic on the first possible frame. I haven't tested it, but it looks like Gief is outside of Dic's throw range when the 360 grabs, so if Dic doesn't have meter, it's a guaranteed tick, and it's really easy to do.
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  • KuprinKuprin MOOGLE RUSH!!! Joined: Posts: 322
    Yeah, I guess on Dic it's really no big deal that it's so telegraphed, because you can do it to him for free. Against some of the rest of the cast you can't get away with that shit lol...I'm trying to remember who else you can tick for free. Other giefs?
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  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    If you try to tick another Gief, he can SPD you first, for free, every time.

    If the opponent has no charge, you can tick for free against Dic, Chun, Boxer, DeeJay, and Guile. If they do have a charge, you don't get any ticks for free.
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  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    Ok guys i didnt see it any where but I might have missed it but there is no mention of canceling a crouching jab or crouchin short ( or any other cancelable normal for that matter )

    into a running bear grab. Im guessing here because Im not actually sure it really is a move you can go into from a cancel but dam it sure feels like it does!

    I wondering if this is a good technique to be using because earlier in the thread it was explained that it grabs on the first possible frame so in theory doesnt that only give them a

    really minimum chance of escaping since (a) there is no whiff animation. And (b) he starts running BEFOR they can do anything since they are so deep in block or hit stun.

    Isnt it like the timing is actually being done for you like that ?

    Lol, I sure hope I explained myself. Maybe only I understand what Im trying to say!!!
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Yeah man, canceling into bear grab after like crouching short or forward is ok in some situations. If you do it close, it's a tight enough tick so that the opponent can't jump out, so that's cool. But usually there's no real reason to do this, since the bear grab does less damage and has some startup.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I just wanted to point out a pretty good move that gets forgotten: Zangief's normal strong throw. This grab is great to start some pretty mean mind games because Zangief stays super close to the opponent. You are so close to the opponent that you can go for a crossup splash. I've been using this grab for awhile now, and it's great because it usually ends up resulting in an SPD anyways, so it's extra damage!

    Also, you should always use a banishing fist after an SPD to close the gap and keep pressure on the opponent.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054

    Also, you should always use a banishing fist after an SPD to close the gap and keep pressure on the opponent.



    I thought I saw Pony using Banishing Fists after bearly conecting crouching roundhouses to get good SPD tick range. You can see it here

    http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=panLrkRk0CQ

    at the 1:50 mark (even though he misses the SPD ) :looney::looney::looney:

    O but then he lands it at the 3:49 mark :rofl::rofl::rofl:
    He actually gets good enough tick range to throw TWO standing shorts for the mix up!!!
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    (even though he misses the SPD)
    He didn't miss the spd, he was expecting Ryu to super and tried to jump out of the way. But yeah, green hand after crouching roundhouse is good just make sure you do it such that you'll recover before your opponent.
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  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    So what's the deal with the distance you land away from your opponent after an SPD in the corner? Sometimes I'll land real close while sometimes I'm put further away...
  • KuprinKuprin MOOGLE RUSH!!! Joined: Posts: 322
    As far as I can tell it's partly random and partly based on the strength of the SPD you used.
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  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    I think based on which direction your SPD motion ended with also determines it, but I'm not certain.
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