Fighter's History Dynamite thread

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  • CoosCoosCoosCoos Yep. Joined: Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Get at me on aim if anyone wants to play this.

    My main's Jean, but I play with pretty much everyone.
    AE: Fei

    Marvel: Mag/Doom/Dante

    UNIEL: Waldstein
  • Slash CharlotteSlash Charlotte Chonshu's handmaid Joined: Posts: 90
    Ryoko's not ass, but you can't be braindead and try to play her. Yungmie has some awesome stuff to combo with, but you need to know what you are doing, total skill character. Feilin is so awkward its unrealistic to even play the bitch, you can do it if your dedicated enough though.
    Daraku Tenshi: Roccio Roche, Taro
    KoF XI: Ryo, Jyazu, and Kasmui
    NGBC: Chonshu, wildcard
    Karnov's Revenge:Masturius and Zazie
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,021 mod
    Oh I don't care if she's ass really, I know dumb this game is :rofl:.

    I just <3 Ryoko~
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    feilin is waaay worse
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Hit me up also on yahoo:Lance_uppercut20@yahoo.com

    I play everyone cept Karnov and Feilin.

    I also have a friend who plays her pretty damn good too.

    Shadowcharlie: Hop on that Real Bout 2 with me sometime.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hit me up on aim l33tzeppygorrila to play me
  • ThrowTheDiceThrowTheDice Yahooey! Joined: Posts: 246
    To all Matlok users:

    Crouch C >>>>>>>>> everything else.
    God 2.0: When I play a fighting game, I want to play it like chess, not like guitar hero.
    New SamSho V Special thread, get on the gravy train: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=186398
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hit me up also on yahoo:Lance_uppercut20@yahoo.com

    I play everyone cept Karnov and Feilin.

    I also have a friend who plays her pretty damn good too.

    Shadowcharlie: Hop on that Real Bout 2 with me sometime.
    i dont really play rb2 sorry
    ><><><>
    dwn+c with matlock is good but so is jumping D ala claw in st
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • redmyst81redmyst81 Joined: Posts: 19
    Late to the game, but I play this beast of a game too. My mains are Jean, Mizo, Ray, and now Zazie.

    Aim: terrinsct451
    msn: T_scott20@hotmail.com
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Okay, this seems about right:

    God Tier: Ray, Karnov, Zazie
    Top Tier: Lee, Marstorious,
    Mid Tier: Jean, Samchay, Clown, Mizoguchi,
    Low Tier: Matlok, Yungmie, Ryoko
    lol garbage: Feilin

    I feel like Mizoguchi, Clown and Matlok are all up for debate: Clown is fast but can't deal HUGE damage, Mizoguchi deals big damage but is a tossup unless you get a dizzy, and Matlok seems to have C and the overhead mixups.
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    my AIM is the same as my username (Lord BBH), I wanna play more peeps in this. I play pretty much everyone except Feilin!

    anyway seeing how everyone has a different tier list I may as well post mine. It's pretty similar to my colleague zeppy_gorilla's, but I'll try to explain it:

    S: Ray, Karnov, Zazie
    A: Lee, Jean, Marstorius
    B: Samchay, Mizoguchi, Matlok, Clown, Yungmie
    C: Ryoko
    Feilin: Feilin

    I still think Ray is #1 in this game because I don't think he really has any really bad matchups. Wheel Kick is just one of the most obnoxious anti-air moves I've ever seen in a fighting game. Karnov... well, we all know why Karnov is good. Zazie has so many options, his "DP" has almost no recovery and he can dash into it... plus the ABCD rapid punch thing.

    Lee could maybe be in the top along with those 3, just on the basis of how scrubby he is to play and how much damage he gets (along with easy dizzies). I dunno. Jean is up there because he can turtle pretty effectively (a flash kick that moves him backward? why?) and his ABCD punch combo sometimes does even more damage than Zazie's, it's insane if you can do it right. Marstorius is odd, if he gets one grab he can use that momentum so sometimes win the round instantly, but he has a hell of a time getting in on most fireball characters. He's very scary to play against but the low jump is just such a huge weakness.

    Here's where things get weird - I can't really differentiate the next 5 characters (Samchay, Mizoguchi, Matlok, Clown, Yungmie) into individual tiers because they all feel about the same to me. They can all win, but they all have weaknesses. Samchay is definitely the best of the bunch, but I don't think he should be in the next tier. Yungmie is definitely third-worst, winning with her isn't hopeless but she doesn't have enough good ground combos, one more bufferable move from the ground would've been nice.

    Ryoko gets her own tier because I don't feel she's anywhere near as good as those 5, but she doesn't deserve to be grouped in with Feilin. She gets raped by the top tier, but against everyone else I don't think it's a total blowout for her (although she may still have some pretty bad matchups). The big difference between her and Feilin is that if Ryoko gets an opening, she can actually do about 40% damage instantly.

    Feilin is in Feilin Tier because she is garbage.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • ThrowTheDiceThrowTheDice Yahooey! Joined: Posts: 246
    Does matlok have any GOOD matchups? It seems like everything for him is uphill but winnable. His fb is good but nowhere near the best, and his overhead kick is nice, but his flash kick is garbage; its priority is ass, and it doesn't work well in combos. I think his greatest strength would be his good normals (jump D, crouch C, crouch D, stand C to a certain extent.).
    God 2.0: When I play a fighting game, I want to play it like chess, not like guitar hero.
    New SamSho V Special thread, get on the gravy train: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=186398
  • SnatcherSnatcher The True Enemy Joined: Posts: 920 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I still got nothin' on doing Thunder Dynamite, anyone got any advice on that?
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ^ i know i get it most when i do it off a blocked sweep
    its really weird to hit it normally for me.

    ><><
    i would like to hear feedback on why there is fuzzy guard in this game i hope its only the emu version that me and the people i play with have but cmon too many times can u get away with blocking high jumpin then stand blocking a low right after =/
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • ChibiPotPieChibiPotPie Epic Joined: Posts: 347
    Ray

    - Fastest FB in game.
    - Wheel kick is fast and can go through/over fbs at startup. Virtually impossible to trade or beat in air.
    - Dynomite is safe and hard to counter. (only a fb or well-timed sweep will beat it)

    Fei-Lin

    - Low Atk Power
    - FB has startup and recovery time (chunli a3 fb).
    - FB can't be comboed.
    - Anti-air has mid priority
    - Slow attacks

    - Jean

    - Natural turtle game
    - Flash kick goes backwards (making it virtually safe and difficult to counter)
    - Jumps relatively high than most chars.
    - FB has no startup and quick recovery.
    - CR. Strong Kick acts as an anti-air (chunli a3 cr.rh)
    - CR. Strong Punch acts as an anti-air.

    Yungmie

    - Poor Ground Game
    - Needs to triangle jump to beat fb spammers (not a weakness, but if a player isn't aware of it they can be pinned down into anti-airs from ray and jean)
    - Awkard motion anti-air. (has low priority)

    Callin em as I see em.
    SS3Ken: Super Off Road

    S tier- that damn gray car.
  • redmyst81redmyst81 Joined: Posts: 19
    Ray + whiffed wheel kick + Double German = dead Ray
  • RushedDownRushedDown back in the usa Joined: Posts: 2,046
    the only character i had any real troble with was karnov and hid ballon shit and teleport glitches
    i think samchay should be higher
    Home Depot Vagina TM
    Xanoz says the cure for the common Emil is Semi-Tight White Pie
    RIP Harold John Grinnell 8/29/53 - 8/29/09 you will be missed dad

    RushedSRK on psn and live
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    the only character i had any real troble with was karnov and hid ballon shit and teleport glitches
    i think samchay should be higher
    That would put Samchay higher than marstorious, which he is not. Marstorious simply has the highest damage over time output
  • RushedDownRushedDown back in the usa Joined: Posts: 2,046
    my samchay owns marstorious players
    mr dbl german aint got shit on me
    and i have only played this game a few times
    Home Depot Vagina TM
    Xanoz says the cure for the common Emil is Semi-Tight White Pie
    RIP Harold John Grinnell 8/29/53 - 8/29/09 you will be missed dad

    RushedSRK on psn and live
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ray
    - Dynomite is safe and hard to counter. (only a fb or well-timed sweep will beat it)
    Callin em as I see em.
    actually u can down jab ray everytime he trys to do die no mite =/ just like u can down jab karnovs flying kick and samchays knee alog with other moves that move horrizontally.
    Ray + whiffed wheel kick + Double German = dead Ray
    if ray wiffed a wheel kick then hes probly doing a ddt to u
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    my samchay owns marstorious players
    mr dbl german aint got shit on me
    and i have only played this game a few times

    Yes, Samchay can give Marstorius a hard time, obviously... but it's not completely impossible for Marstorius to get in, and then it's trouble for Samchay if Mars gets in. This match can go either way, I think.
    Ray + whiffed wheel kick + Double German = dead Ray

    Why would Ray be whiffing wheel kicks? Not much point in doing wheel kick every time from a distance, if Marstorius is just landing from a jump and it looks like wheel kick would miss, Ray just has to do sweep into fireball as Marstorius lands to go back into pushing him away.

    But ok, even if Ray whiffs a wheel kick and Marstorius does a Double German, this isn't the end of the round for Ray. Ray actually has one of the best chances at getting out of crossup shenanigans after a Double German. Why? Wakeup wheel kick...
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    and i have only played this game a few times
    If you're not being sarcastic, then you are disreagrded from here on out. Even if you are, Samchay does not have "option select" upon a move (such as Marst. with his Double German).
    If Marstorious could jump fireballs better I'd say he'd be encroaching top 3 territory.
  • redmyst81redmyst81 Joined: Posts: 19
    Yes, Samchay can give Marstorius a hard time, obviously... but it's not completely impossible for Marstorius to get in, and then it's trouble for Samchay if Mars gets in. This match can go either way, I think.



    Why would Ray be whiffing wheel kicks? Not much point in doing wheel kick every time from a distance, if Marstorius is just landing from a jump and it looks like wheel kick would miss, Ray just has to do sweep into fireball as Marstorius lands to go back into pushing him away.

    But ok, even if Ray whiffs a wheel kick and Marstorius does a Double German, this isn't the end of the round for Ray. Ray actually has one of the best chances at getting out of crossup shenanigans after a Double German. Why? Wakeup wheel kick...

    While true, it is just the fact that it would make people think twice. I know I learn my lesson. Wheel kick from afar hurts when you whiff. Also when I say dead Ray, he looks in a great deal of pain when it lands... then again everyone looks like that when dunked on there head.
  • RushedDownRushedDown back in the usa Joined: Posts: 2,046
    If you're not being sarcastic, then you are disreagrded from here on out. Even if you are, Samchay does not have "option select" upon a move (such as Marst. with his Double German).
    If Marstorious could jump fireballs better I'd say he'd be encroaching top 3 territory.

    samchay can do his knee and then jump up back and kick before mars can grab him
    and i wasnt being sarcastic at all
    i have only played the game a handful of times
    i guess we will have to wait for the nec vids to come out to prove that samchay beats mars more than mars beats sam
    Home Depot Vagina TM
    Xanoz says the cure for the common Emil is Semi-Tight White Pie
    RIP Harold John Grinnell 8/29/53 - 8/29/09 you will be missed dad

    RushedSRK on psn and live
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    I think I'm one of the only Clown players that uses him though I still mess around with Ray and Lee as well. Would love to get some games sometime with some of ya.
    youtube channel = jaimedl
    twitch channel = jaimedl
    twitter = NocturnalSRK
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    While true, it is just the fact that it would make people think twice. I know I learn my lesson. Wheel kick from afar hurts when you whiff. Also when I say dead Ray, he looks in a great deal of pain when it lands... then again everyone looks like that when dunked on there head.

    Good points :)
    samchay can do his knee and then jump up back and kick before mars can grab him
    and i wasnt being sarcastic at all
    i have only played the game a handful of times
    i guess we will have to wait for the nec vids to come out to prove that samchay beats mars more than mars beats sam

    Ummm. The only time the "tiger knee" is safe is if you do it from the absolute maximum distance (in which only 1 hit is blocked). If you do it too close, you WILL get Double German'ed. If the Marstorius'es you're playing against aren't punishing blocked knees with Double Germans, then either their timing is off or they're not very good. Alternatively, Mars can just throw out jabs to stop the knee cold, just like shadowcharlie said (doesn't have to be crouching jab, standing jab works too and actually has more range).

    Abusing the tiger knee is not at all recommended in this match, it only should be used in instances where you know it's going to hit (like hit confirming it after crouching weak kicks). No, the key to winning that matchup is to abuse his fireball, of course. Marstorius does of course have ways around it, but many times those ways can end up with him coming up short and getting pushed back again by Samchay.

    Not gonna act like an authority on this matchup because I don't have THAT much experience with this game, but I have played it more than a "handful of times" and at this point I think this match is honestly even. Would probably give the edge to Samchay since he can chuck fireballs like there's no tomorrow. But he most definitely does not win for free.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • RushedDownRushedDown back in the usa Joined: Posts: 2,046
    Good points :)



    Ummm. The only time the "tiger knee" is safe is if you do it from the absolute maximum distance (in which only 1 hit is blocked). If you do it too close, you WILL get Double German'ed. If the Marstorius'es you're playing against aren't punishing blocked knees with Double Germans, then either their timing is off or they're not very good. Alternatively, Mars can just throw out jabs to stop the knee cold, just like shadowcharlie said (doesn't have to be crouching jab, standing jab works too and actually has more range).

    Abusing the tiger knee is not at all recommended in this match, it only should be used in instances where you know it's going to hit (like hit confirming it after crouching weak kicks). No, the key to winning that matchup is to abuse his fireball, of course. Marstorius does of course have ways around it, but many times those ways can end up with him coming up short and getting pushed back again by Samchay.

    Not gonna act like an authority on this matchup because I don't have THAT much experience with this game, but I have played it more than a "handful of times" and at this point I think this match is honestly even. Would probably give the edge to Samchay since he can chuck fireballs like there's no tomorrow. But he most definitely does not win for free.
    i got dbl germaned everytime i did the knee to close
    the players i was playing knew how to play mars pretty well
    i just find its easy to beat mars with samchay
    and i did throw lots of fireballs
    Home Depot Vagina TM
    Xanoz says the cure for the common Emil is Semi-Tight White Pie
    RIP Harold John Grinnell 8/29/53 - 8/29/09 you will be missed dad

    RushedSRK on psn and live
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think I'm one of the only Clown players that uses him though I still mess around with Ray and Lee as well. Would love to get some games sometime with some of ya.
    noc id love to play on say the p2p client ala kawaks ? clown is dope as fuck but its like u missjudge one thing and the round ends
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    noc id love to play on say the p2p client ala kawaks ? clown is dope as fuck but its like u missjudge one thing and the round ends

    I'd rather do it on mame since I dont use kawaks at all anymore.
    youtube channel = jaimedl
    twitch channel = jaimedl
    twitter = NocturnalSRK
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    ^^^ NFBA is the new hotness as far as P2P emulators go.

    i got dbl germaned everytime i did the knee to close
    the players i was playing knew how to play mars pretty well
    i just find its easy to beat mars with samchay
    and i did throw lots of fireballs

    Ok. Just saying that spamming the knee isn't unbeatable or anything.


    In other news, I made a semi-interesting discovery regarding Marstorius a little while ago. As I'm sure any Marstorius player knows, the best thing to do after a Double German is to charge back and then do the tiger dash punch to get close. This sets you up for a crossup, of course.

    But instead of charging back and then hitting forward + weak punch, you can also perform the dash punch by hitting DOWN-FORWARD + weak punch instead. Keep the down-forward held and you can begin charging down (charge buffering). Mars has two moves he can do out of a down charge, unfortunately using the Moonsault on a rising opponent isn't very useful. Most of the time it's easy to block and they can throw you first. His rising knee attack though is a little more useful. It hits on the way up with partial invincibility, and also on the way down. So you can do a rising knee on them when they get up, and most any wakeup move they attempt will get stuffed. If they block the first part of the knee, the second part crosses up! This knocks them down again and you have another knockdown, and can go for a regular jumping crossup before they know what's going on...

    This probably isn't all that useful in the long run, but it does give Marstorius an extra option on what to do after a double german. Hell, if you ever have an opportunity to gain ground with the dash punch, you can also start it with the down-forward + punch and then have a charge ready should you want to moonsault or rising knee. Just thought it was cool since I had no idea this game had charge buffering, haha.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    I have nFBA as well but I was mainly saying that because I dont really know anyone that uses Kawaks online.
    youtube channel = jaimedl
    twitch channel = jaimedl
    twitter = NocturnalSRK
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    if someone blocks mars knee on the way up they can trade their aa or beat it ray jean and ryoko can just air throw him
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    As I'm sure pretty much everyone is aware of by now, Fighter's History Dynamite is playable on damdai's 2DFighter Client. If you ever wanted to pick this game up, now is the time! I welcome any and all competition. Holla at me on #srksnk on EFNet if I'm not on 2DF (I tend to be on in the evenings/late night), if anyone's new to the game and wants to learn, I'd probably be willing to teach :tup:

    Here are a few tidbits I have to share regarding this game's combo system:

    After a character has been dizzied, attacks to a character's weak spot do 50% more damage than an attack to a character who doesn't have that region of their body as their weak spot. What this means, is that if you do land a dizzy on a character, you'll probably want to do a combo involving some moves that hit whatever region that character's weak spot is in for that extra damage. This also means that I don't think most characters have one universal combo against everyone that will always do the most damage. It will take some experimentation to figure out which combos do the most on which characters. I'm thinking of compiling a list for some characters, but there's something else in the game engine that's screws this up a little...

    ...and that's that when you're being hit by attacks, you can actually alternate whether your character is standing or crouching while you're being comboed. For example, say someone starts hitting you with repeated crouching LK's when you were blocking high, after the first hit connects you can hold Down or Down-Back and your character will move from a standing to a crouching state. You obviously won't be able to block the rest of the combo if their timing is correct, it just lets you switch to standing or crouching if you weren't in that state already. Going to crouching is obviously advantageous for ducking a few normal moves that hit high (like Samchay neutral standing HP), but there aren't too many of these. Going into a crouching state may NOT be advantageous depending on the character though, since crouching will of course change the position of the hitbox on your weak spot! I think this could potentially hurt the characters with weak spots on/near the head (Mizoguchi, Ryoko, Zazie, Clown, Matlok, Karnov), as the vast majority of special moves in combos usually end up hitting the middle of the body. So if you know you're going to eat big damage, it may be beneficial to leave yourself in a standing position to lessen the damage you'll take. But then again, leaving yourself standing instead of holding down-back after the first hit could screw you over if your opponent doesn't manage to correctly link any other crouching attacks they were going to do after the first hit... wow, mad layers of yomi right there :looney:

    The other thing I've learned about the combo engine is that there is verrrry slight damage scaling going on. I've started to finally figure out how this damage scaling works.

    As an example, here's how adding a crouching LK or two to a Lee combo can vary the damage. This was tested against a standing Ray with his weak point already taken out (but as I said, attacks to the weak point still do 1.5x the damage after they're already dizzied). As I'm using memory watchpoints in MAME to calculate damage, a full lifebar is 255 points (but I'll approximate the damage).

    c. HP, qcf + HP, f,f+ LP - 102 points (40%)
    c. LK, c, HP, qcf + HP, f,f + LP - 100 points (39.2%)
    c. LK, c. LK, c. HP, qcf + HP, f,f + LP - 104 points (40.8%)
    c. LK, c. LK, c. LK, c. HP, qcf + HP, f,f+LP - 108 points (42.4%)

    Let's break this down individually. Here's how much damage each move does on its own, outside of a combo:

    c. LK - 6 points
    c. HP - 30 points
    qcf + HP - 48 points (normally 32, hits Ray for 1.5x)
    f,f + A followup - 24 points (normally 16, hits Ray for 1.5x)

    Looking at the first combo, it adds up correctly: 30 + 48 + 24 = 102. But then in the 2nd combo, adding one crouching LK actually results in a combo that adds up a total of 2 FEWER points, even though you're doing one extra attack! How can this be?

    Well, from what I can tell, any normal attacks that are chained or linked (i.e. after a jump attack) after the first hit will do approximately 75% damage, although if the number doesn't divide evenly, it rounds down. So, going back to the 2nd combo, the c. HP is chained after the c. LK, and 75% of 30 is 22.5. The game rounds this down to 22 points. The damage on the special moves isn't affected, so the first two attacks do 28 points, which is less than you would have gotten had you started the combo with c. HP on its own.

    The third and fourth combos do more damage because more c. LK's are added in to offset the reduced damage on the c. HP. 75% of the 6 points of the c. LK is 4.5, rounded down to 4. So the first c. LK hits for 6 damage, subsequent c. LK's hits for 4.

    This might not mean that much since these combos don't do drastically much more in the way of damage (from 39.2% to 42.4%), but now you know a little more about how the damage works. Here's another for Lee (corner only):

    f, b, db, df+LP+HP (fireball blast), c. HP, qcf + HP, f,f+LP - 178 points (70% damage!!)

    The fireball blast special move does 108 points on its own if all hits connect. So why does the rest of the combo only do 70 points afterwards, when it should actually be 94 (22 for the c. HP, 48 for the qcf + HP, 24 for the f,f+A followup)? Well... as it turns out, in this particular combo, the qcf+HP actually does half damage! Yes, even though special moves aren't supposed to be reduced in damage when they're buffered in, it's reduced here, and by 50% instead of the 75% rule that exists for normal moves! I'm not completely sure on this one, but it seems like if a second special move is performed in a combo, damage will be halved. I haven't completely tested this thoroughly, as I can't think of many characters that can START a combo with a special move, and then link another special move after. The other question is why the f,f+A elbow followup does full damage after the qcf+HP was reduced in damage, and I don't have a fucking clue on that one :confused:

    Well, I hope at least one person found all that interesting! This game isn't very well-documented so I thought it would be nice to share some of my findings here.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • SohSoh Thunder God assisted Joined: Posts: 74
    Well, I hope at least one person found all that interesting!

    Great post! :tup:
  • Oro's Other ArmOro's Other Arm Joined: Posts: 19
    Here's something: what's the deal with Jean's Chojaku Needle Shower? Sometimes it does so little damage a single punch would have worked better, but one time I had it do almost double Flic Flac damage. In my experience it's been very inconsistent.
  • CoosCoosCoosCoos Yep. Joined: Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Here's something: what's the deal with Jean's Chojaku Needle Shower? Sometimes it does so little damage a single punch would have worked better, but one time I had it do almost double Flic Flac damage. In my experience it's been very inconsistent.

    I main Jean, so maybe I can help you out a bit.

    If you fight anyone who's has any weakness near their head, close st. fp xx ABCD shower will usually kill them. Sometimes it will kill them without them even being dizzy.

    If their weak spot is near their midsection, then cr. fp xx ABCD shower, link cr. fk will do pretty good damage, sometimes you can get a critical hit, but it's usually rare.

    Mars and Lee, just do any combo that ends in lk flash kick. That does massive damage.

    This is one of my favorite games. So pm me if you wanna play on nfba.
    AE: Fei

    Marvel: Mag/Doom/Dante

    UNIEL: Waldstein
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Me and Red Myst got into a serious debate on why Ray isn't S tier and Lee is. He thinks Ray is A+ simply because his damage output is low while he says Lee is S because of his bread and butter taking up to 60% in the right scenario,stupidly fast alternate dash punch,uppercut kick wakeup mindgames and so forth.

    I told him Ray is overrated but for all the right reasons as wheelkick is probably the most spammable move outside of balloon.and Ray's walk and attack animation are blinding to the average player as tick throws become a nuisance.

    To me,I think they both should be in the same spot but somebody has to take a dive.

    What do you think?
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    Attacks to a character's weak spot do 50% more damage than an attack to a character who doesn't have that region of their body as their weak spot. It's important to note that even after they're dizzy, hitting their weak spot area still does 50% more damage, even if you can't dizzy them again.

    Wow, I made a serious mistake here. In actuality, no extra 50% damage can be done as long as their weak point is intact (i.e. they haven't been dizzied yet). It's only AFTER they've been dizzied that attacks to that weak point area will do 50% more damage. Sorry for any confusion. :xeye:
    Here's something: what's the deal with Jean's Chojaku Needle Shower? Sometimes it does so little damage a single punch would have worked better, but one time I had it do almost double Flic Flac damage. In my experience it's been very inconsistent.

    This took me a little while to figure out, but I've finally got it.

    Jean's ABCD Chojaku Needle Shower does inflated damage only when two-in-oned off a normal move on a crouching opponent.

    Remember what I said in my previous post about how you can switch between standing and crouching when you're being hit? When crouching, all hits of the ABCD version whiff except for one, and that one hit is the hit that does the obscene damage. That one obscene damage hit simply won't connect if they're standing, you'll get 2-3 hits for less damage instead.

    What this means is that if you're fighting against a Jean that knows about the damage trick, you should never hold down on the stick if you get dizzied! If you hold down or down-back and they go for a c. LK into ABCD needle shower, it's your own fault if you end up getting KO'ed.

    Conversely, if you do play Jean and you think your opponent won't hold down when you go for a post-dizzy combo, it's probably a better idea to go for a simpler combo that guarantees damage, such as c. HP into flash kick. This doesn't make the ABCD needle shower worthless though, as it's always possible to land it earlier in the match before they're dizzied too! A simple c. LK into ABCD happens so fast, they won't be able to let go of their crouch in time to avoid the high damage.

    (also worth noting - the ABCD damage trick apparently does not work on Marstorius, as in his crouching state he's big enough to take 2 lesser hits from the attack instead of the 1 big hit. Now that I think about it, it might be possible from a farther distance or something, I'll have to test a little more. I'm not sure if any other characters are immune from this trick in their crouching state.)
    Me and Red Myst got into a serious debate on why Ray isn't S tier and Lee is. He thinks Ray is A+ simply because his damage output is low while he says Lee is S because of his bread and butter taking up to 60% in the right scenario,stupidly fast alternate dash punch,uppercut kick wakeup mindgames and so forth.

    I told him Ray is overrated but for all the right reasons as wheelkick is probably the most spammable move outside of balloon.and Ray's walk and attack animation are blinding to the average player as tick throws become a nuisance.

    To me,I think they both should be in the same spot but somebody has to take a dive.

    What do you think?

    I'm siding with you on this one, except that Ray isn't "overrated" at all. I still believe Ray is #1 in this game over Karnov, who a lot of people instead believe is #1. My reasoning for this is that I don't think Ray has a single bad match - even Ray vs. Karnov I'd put at 5.5-4.5, possibly 6-4 (Ray's one of the only characters that can deal with BALLOOOOOON lockdown, thanks to his Wheel Kick and air throw).

    Ray's raw damage output may be low, but he can still cause dizzies fairly quickly, especially if he combos an Electric Dynamite Tackle. Just because he doesn't have 70% combos doesn't mean he's a bad character, because he's so versatile and has a lot of options that make up for this. Yes, Wheel Kick is insane - best anti-air in the game, and fairly quick recovery on whiff that often lets him land a throw if his opponent's reflexes aren't up to snuff. He also has a really good projectile, and while comboing tackles don't do huge damage, it still lets him reliably combo in extra damage from any distance.

    Lee does have a huge damage/dizzy-causing bread 'n butter, but Lee's options are kinda limited. He has no projectile, and while his Senkyutai is pretty good at stopping jumpers or catching people trying to do meaty attacks to him on wakeup, it's still nowhere near as useful as the Wheel Kick is. He's still a very good character, probably #3 or #4 in the game (can't make up my mind which order he and Zazie should be in), but his lack of versatility hurts a little bit, it makes him predictable.

    Ray isn't invincible, though. He's not an unstoppable character by any means, his weak spot is a prime target for dizzies so often all you need are one or two openings to turn the match around. But getting in and creating those openings can sometimes be pretty difficult. Hell, if Lee lands a dizzy in the corner on Ray, Lee gets to do a 70% damage combo that would most certainly end the round right there.

    I think the fact that everyone's tier lists for this game vary quite a bit, goes to show that this game is more balanced than it seems. I mean, it's obvious that certain characters are better than others, but most of the cast always has a shot at winning, although it often means they've gotta work a little bit harder. The only thing that's certain is that Feilin is dead last. :rofl:
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • Oro's Other ArmOro's Other Arm Joined: Posts: 19
    Yeah, I figured it out earlier. I was doing the combo right, but instead of just hitting ABCD and letting it do its thing, I was mashing on it as in the regular needle shower so it wasn't hitting very hard. I just started on Jean so I wasn't quite sure, but once I realized just to hit it and let it go, I can definitely see the massive damage now.
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Fei just takes a bit of work to get used to really. I have a friend who plays her pretty well and she can give Mars a headache if played correctly.

    The worst thing about Ray and others who have those anti air moves with almost no lag is that some players tend to get reckless with them. A good player knowing how to neutral guard can make them pay.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • CoosCoosCoosCoos Yep. Joined: Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Lee's dash punches can be stopped at certain distances by a simple cr. lp by most if not all characters. Also, there are some characters that can block a max range cr. fp/fk, and when the Lee player goes for the dash punch they can hit cr. lp and hit them out of it. I don't remember the list but I will test it.

    This will produce damage to his weak spot. If you can keep Lee at this distance, he'll have to find other way ways to get in, risking his weak spot in the process.

    If you watch some of the vids on youtube, you'll notice that all the Lee's use the qcf, b p version of the dash punch, that's because it is way faster, and harder to react to. It still suffers from the problem of being spaced and cr. lp'ed, but it is harder to do that because the light punch version stays in place, and the hard punch version goes way far.

    You can also cr. lp/lk Ray's regular shoulders from certain distances. As well as cr. lk Jean's slides.
    AE: Fei

    Marvel: Mag/Doom/Dante

    UNIEL: Waldstein
  • Oro's Other ArmOro's Other Arm Joined: Posts: 19
    That hp into Chojaku Needle is incredible if you can make it work. After breaking his weak point, I just hit some guy's Karnov for what must have been 70%. He quit before I could even finish the fight.
  • JuddfroJuddfro Joined: Posts: 106
    How good is the bull? I can't imagine he's good since he seems like a joke character. Regardless I want to play as him......because he is a bull.
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Great priority and damage but is a combo movie waiting to happen which has already happened. If you're a masochist,play him.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    I don't think the bull is normally playable without cheats. By the way, it's the same bull that attacks the player in one of the bonus stages of the granddaddy of fighting games, Karate Champ :rofl:
    Lee's dash punches can be stopped at certain distances by a simple cr. lp by most if not all characters. Also, there are some characters that can block a max range cr. fp/fk, and when the Lee player goes for the dash punch they can hit cr. lp and hit them out of it. I don't remember the list but I will test it.

    This will produce damage to his weak spot. If you can keep Lee at this distance, he'll have to find other way ways to get in, risking his weak spot in the process.

    Yeah, that's another big weakness for Lee, all his dashes can get stopped by random jabs. If all you do is toss jabs out though, it can possibly make you vulnerable to Lee's low HP if he gets close enough, so you have to be somewhat careful.

    Also, on blocked Lee rush punches, the f,f+LP or f,f+HP followups shouldn't be punishable unless they delay the followup. If they do it immediately after the rush it should still be part of block stun. Only if they're delaying the followup by a little bit does it become punishable (you could also time special moves with invincibility to hit him when the followup comes out, such as Ray's wheel kick).

    And of course, Lee has to be VERY careful in deciding when to do blocked followups against Marstorius, as it makes him prime fodder for the Double German :bgrin:
    Fei just takes a bit of work to get used to really. I have a friend who plays her pretty well and she can give Mars a headache if played correctly.

    The thing about Feilin is that her damage output is completely horrible. She has to poke and poke and poke and keep at it very slowly to win. All Mars has to do is get in once and he can completely offset the damage she's done. Yes, Feilin has a fireball and that can be trouble for Marstorius, but he can still get around it.
    That hp into Chojaku Needle is incredible if you can make it work. After breaking his weak point, I just hit some guy's Karnov for what must have been 70%. He quit before I could even finish the fight.

    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Actually, when I say dash punch, I meant THE dash punch. Nobody in thier right mind would spam the rekka punch. Frankly, doing them outside a combo is suicide.

    Later on tonight, I'll get online to play a bit. It's hard to get comp for this game outside of people I train personally.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    Got a few more tidbits about the game engine to share.

    Has it ever felt like it takes a little longer to finish someone off when their life is low? As it turns out, the game implements damage reduction on normal moves when your lifebar is at 25% or so. Once you're at 25% life (which is NOT the same time the music starts to speed up, it's a little less than that... the speedup occurs around 30% IIRC), normal attacks start doing half damage. But here's the weird part - this damage reduction does not take effect if the bar hits 25% in the middle of a combo. The damage reduction will only kick in once the combo ends, if it leaves you with less than 25% life. Special moves and throws still appear to do full damage, it's only normal moves that are affected (and I think block damage from special moves is reduced slightly too). Weird!


    For some reason I've always had problems doing Marstorius's "Tiger" Lariat. It made me start to wonder if Mars had the same kind of problems with charge moves that Clown has (more on that below). But no, it just seems that both Marstorius's Tiger Lariat and Kneel Kick require twice as much charge time as most moves.

    Basically, most charge moves require a charge time of 40 frames (roughly 2/3 of a second)

    Marstorius Tiger Lariat and Kneel Kick, and Ray's Electric Dynamite Tackle take 80 frames (roughly 1 1/3 second).

    1 1/3 second doesn't seem like a very long charge time in theory, but when you get used to the shorter charge time for most other special moves, it's easy to get thrown off and not have the move come out when you think you've charged long enough, but in actuality haven't.

    And just a reminder, charge buffering exists in this game! Any charge Back, Forward + button move can be done as Back, Forward, Back + button so you can immediately start charging after the move comes out. This is what makes Matlok's corner projectile lockdown / infinite combo possible (although the infinite is still rather difficult to keep going). Flash kick motions can also be done by charge Down, Up, Down + button, but you have to be very fast, obviously.

    Another way of doing charge Back, Forward moves is to substitute the Forward with either Up-Forward or Down-Forward. Ending the motion with Down-Forward can be very advantageous for Marstorius, Jean, and Matlok since it allows them to then immediately start charging Down. Jean and Matlok can immediately charge a flash kick after throwing their fireballs, and Marstorius can begin charging his moonsault or upward knee after a lariat.


    As for Clown, you have to keep in mind that both of his ball attacks and headstomp HAVE to be charged in the Down-Back position. Either Back or Down by itself won't cut it. There is some very annoying move overlap between his horizontal and diagonal ball attacks though. The horizontal ball is done by Down-Back, Forward + kick, and the vertical ball is done by Down-Back, Up + kick. If you hit Up-Forward instead of Up, you'll end up getting the horizontal ball. If you don't want to run the risk of flubbing this motion when you want the vertical ball instead, then you can also complete the motion by pressing UP-BACK instead of Up.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    You can also cr. lp/lk Ray's regular shoulders from certain distances. As well as cr. lk Jean's slides.
    u can c.jab almost all horrizontal moving attacks in this game.
    still think theres some fuzzy blocking bullshit goin on in it also bbh u should look into that next how i can block a low standing up if im in block stun from the jumpin and such...
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,136
    u can c.jab almost all horrizontal moving attacks in this game.
    still think theres some fuzzy blocking bullshit goin on in it also bbh u should look into that next how i can block a low standing up if im in block stun from the jumpin and such...

    Yes, the game has automatic fuzzy guard. Once you block one attack and are in blockstun, you will automatically be able to block all subsequent attacks while blockstun is active. You can actually alternate between standing and crouching while blocking too.

    The only way to sneak in low attacks is to delay your block strings, let them come out of blockstun and then do your low poke. But the downside to this is that once they're out of blockstun, they can do their own attacks...


    At this point one of the only things I don't understand about the engine is why it's sometimes inconsistent in how many attacks you need to do to take out someone's weakspot. If it's a combo where 3 attacks in a row are done to the weak point, then it's pretty much a guaranteed dizzy. But if those attacks are spaced out over the match, I've seen sometimes seen it take 4 or even 5 hits before they were dizzied. I'm not sure what would cause it to take longer - perhaps some hits "graze" the weak point and show the screen flash, but don't damage it as much. I can't find anything to fully support this theory, though.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Ray....knockdown in corner, jab dynamite,short wheel kick.....

    If done right, they have to block FORWARD on wake up. Works with Samchay kinda also.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
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