The Superman Thread: PREACH IT, goody!

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  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    ...but he dropped Neo Nazis into the sewer works...
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    It really boils down to what seperates this book from a regular Superman comic who is not married in this reality. Extremely little. So there is no justification for another title. So this is just Superman before he fills out a job application at the Daily Planet and stops wearing jeans? Like really?

    I'm just hoping there's more to this down the line. I was hoping for something All-Star Superman level, but maybe that can't be done within current continuity. Sigh...

    Like Zeph would describe it, this is "I gotta pay the rent" Morrison and not "I'm tripping on acid" Morrison. I want the later, not the former.

    Again because Morrison is who he is I will hang in there for a while.
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    DC wants to shake things up, but they never want to shake things up.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    Superman's already in Metropolis.

    Lois already wrote her Superman piece.

    Clark Kent and Jimmy Olsen are already best friends.

    General Lane is aware of him.

    Lex Luthor is aware of him.

    And this is all BEFORE Action Comics #1!

    Is there room for growth here? Like at all? It's like Morrison is writing for an arc or writing for a TPB and not a long running comic.

    I just don't get it.



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  • AYO?!AYO?! Strong Style Hips. Joined: Posts: 19,032
    Probably, I keep hearing ho-hum responses from it which exemplifies Superman comics over the past year or two, seems to be an ongoing problem. I hope the George Perez powered Superman coming later this month is at least better, I have that coming to me and we'll see, I wasn't much interested in Jeansman.
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  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    Haven't picked it up and don't intend to, but it does sound to me like Morrison isn't calling the shots. He's not the type to play it conservatively when given the opportunity to revise one of the great superheroes. I'm betting Sano is right: Morrison's just the guy with the pen.
  • AYO?!AYO?! Strong Style Hips. Joined: Posts: 19,032
    Most likely, Morrison just wants that money, honey.
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  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    It really boils down to what seperates this book from a regular Superman comic who is not married in this reality. Extremely little. So there is no justification for another title. So this is just Superman before he fills out a job application at the Daily Planet and stops wearing jeans? Like really?
    Only justification I can think of is that this is the ONLY book Morrison is writing for the main new DCU ATM.
    What exactly were you expecting though Sano?

    I guess my standards are low or something =/ I just liked seeing Supes save the day and help people out, I mean that IS what superheroes do.
    I'm just hoping there's more to this down the line. I was hoping for something All-Star Superman level, but maybe that can't be done within current continuity. Sigh...
    You're not really judging this run based on the first issue are you? :lol:
    Like Zeph would describe it, this is "I gotta pay the rent" Morrison and not "I'm tripping on acid" Morrison. I want the later, not the former.
    I dunno I feel like Morrison's got enough money what him working on a movie ATM and other stuff.
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    I'm not judging the entire run by one issue but since I don't have a time machine that's all I have to talk about right now. He's already set barriers in place that permits this from being All-Star level or anywhere near it. Hopefully that will wear off after this arc.

    I could tell, and so could everybody what kind of book All-Star Superman was by issue #1. Same for his first IBatman book and same for Final Crisis. Morrison's not a type of guy to hold all of his cards until the end.

    Speaking of, are you all caught up on Wolverine yet? Now there's someone holding his cards. :tup:

    I only read preliminary stuff that this was supposed to be how Superman becomes Superman. I thought stuff like Superman being single wouldn't bother me because, he'd... I dunno either hang around Smallville, travel the world or be in some dark remote corner of Metropolis... Maybe operating in secret. In short A LOT more to seperate this comic from Superman's regular comic.

    Or... Going on a wild limb here, maybe seeing EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED BEFORE THIS ACTUAL COMIC? He's best friends with Jimmy Olsen without working at the Planet how exactly? Lois wrote her Superman piece, can I see that? Nope. Oh well that's what I expect starting with issue #15... WAITAMINUTE... :rofl:

    You hit the nail right on the head. The only big difference really is Morrison is writing it. And it's not even his best stuff.

    He had a long term year plan for Batman and that was evident really early on. This plan feels like it's only for six issues or so. Right now anyway.

    It's funny because Morrison's not even going to solve Superman being a jerk because going by Justice League 1, even with the costume on he's still a jerk! So Morrison will resolve Superman giving up his jeans and Perry White hiring him at the Daily Planet! WOW!!! I can't take that much story development! I just can't! :rolleyes:

    Morrison having to pay the rent is just an expression, I don't mean that literally. I know he has money. He's probably just putting his name on it to help DC out since they've been good to him and let him do whatever he wanted to with Batman for years (everyone else, if Batman sneezed five editors had to sign on it).

    It's just a guess though. I don't know why he's writing a standard Superman comic when he's proved he can do so much more.

    Maybe DC is playing it safe because they expect a lot of new readers and don't want someone stapling up the Moon with bridges just yet. Whatever it is, this is Morrison censored.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    Morrison might have felt the need to rush certain elements that everyone already knows about instead of waisting ink telling people shit they already know.

    This works better in All-Star when it's basically a take on all of the basics everyone knows. Just not in a new universe we you are supposed to attract new readers and a lot of the basic stuff even long term readers know no longer apply.
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    Frank Miller once made a crack about DC: They'll lend you their car. They just don't want you to drive it.

    I think Morrison got away with murder on ASS because DC could rationalize it as being a standalone, out-of-continuity story. They weren't committed to keeping any of it or dealing with its long-term ramifications in future stories. In the main titles, though, there's never going to be a big change, because writing endless serial fiction is an exercise in preventing forward movement. As soon as real development starts to occur, your story is that much closer to the end.

    That's what cracks me up about reboot after reboot after reboot. Ostensibly, they're an opportunity to shake things up, to try something new. But they're inevitably no different from every previous version in the broad strokes, and the tiny details just get shuffled around a little. And even those little changes usually end up getting retconned out within a few years anyway. It's a comedy.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    People who have never read comics, no. People who have never read Superman yes. That should be the goal here.

    Let's say Ultimate Spider-Man #1 started with Peter Parker already in costume and already dating MJ. Instead of what it did, taking their time before he put on his costume.

    The later approach works better for me. Sure, I don't need to know how he got his powers or costume really, but this is what you call new reader friendly. Again, not "I never read a comic in my life" friendly, but "I never read THIS comic" friendly.

    Justice League #1 was off to a better start. Sorry, I just like starting stories at act 1 (or at least feel like act 1) and not act 15.

    It goes without say that Superman's comic is going to start later on in his career. I just wish Action Comics started much earlier in his career then it has. It would differentiate the two books more. At least the way it used to be Action was about Lex, a really different book.

    In retrospect I wonder if DC just wants JMS handling all of the early origin stuff only in his overpriced Earth One book, despite it being a different reality altogether. Maybe they are favoring the people who paid money for that. I have no interest in reading Earth One myself. Not because of the subject matter, but I don't really believe in buying TPBs blindly without knowing how good or bad they will turn out.

    Ah well. Again I don't think Action Comics is a bad comic. Just not up to par with what Morrison can do or what I was expecting. So overall not impressed. I will stick with it for a little while longer and hope there are some twists and turns to keep things interesting.
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    Hm... not sure I like the sound of this lawyer the families have gotten themselves mixed up with.
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    I just watched this for the first time. It's the much-talked-about opening sequence from Superman Returns that never made it into the final movie, in which Superman makes a pilgrimage to the ruins of Krypton.



    I understand that deleted scenes are often cut for good reason. Maybe a scene is fine on its own but doesn't flow well in the context of the movie. Maybe a scene contradicts the tone and the themes. Maybe a scene is just plain bad.

    But this scene, I just don't understand why it was cut. It would have added a very appreciable cosmic dimension to an otherwise Earthbound superhero movie--and if any hero shouldn't be Earthbound, it's Superman. It would have immediately established how lonely it is to be the last of his kind, whereas without the scene, the loneliness is something of an informed attribute. We're told he's lonely, but seeing him search vainly among the rocks even as they make him sick is a much more effective dramatization. It would have set a tone of melancholy for a film that gamely tries to explore the more tragic side of the character.

    And maybe that's why they cut it. A melancholy tone would have interfered with its ability to represent the big budget summer adventure movie that it was marketed as. Without the scene, the movie only occasionally manages to delvesinto this tone.

    Generally speaking, the first scene in a movie defines how the rest of the movie will be watched. In this case, by cutting this crucial opening moment and substituting it with Luthor making off with an old lady's fortune, we get a very different experience, even if the rest of the movie plays out largely the same. The first scene--whichever version it is--casts a shadow over everything that follows. It's either a melancholy movie about loss or a movie about the schemes of a cackling villain.

    If anyone doesn't know, I am not a Superman Returns detractor. I think it's a flawed movie that suffers from the mixing of two contradictory approaches--simultaneously trying a different take on the character while also pandering to the traditional superhero formula--but it's ultimately well worth a look, and better than a good many of the modern superhero movies. I just wish it had been better. As we see here, it could have been.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    It's funny but a few months back a friend of mine sent me the same footage and also wondered why it was cut.

    I just figured they had to make room for the romance stuff just like they cut some villain stuff in Spider-Man 3 for the same reason. I don't think it would change everyone's outlook on Spidey 3 but it would've helped a bit. In Supe's case it would've helped a lot I think, but who knows.

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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I have a lot of love for Superman Returns. Good find with the deleted scene. Is that on the DVD?
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
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  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    It's on the Blu-Ray.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    No wonder that scene didn't look familiar. I need to get with the times.
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  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    I have the Superman DVD box set. Nowhere on any of the 14 discs is this footage present. I figured it must have been in some unfinished condition that made it unfit for release, because 14 discs is a lot of running time. There should be room for footage of Terence Stamp eating Twizzlers if it exists.
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    Reposted from dat Lounge...

    I have to admit, this is kind of a relief. I generally prefer that creators and their immediate families retain creative rights to the creations, but I think the Siegels and Shusters got themselves mixed up with a real scumbag of a lawyer who cooked up a deal that would benefit himself far more than anybody else.

    Plus, by some kind of miraculous defiance of historical precedent, DC hasn't done too badly by the two families, even if Superman remains a corporate-owned character.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So what do you think of today's news?

    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=43105
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • chopperbyrnechopperbyrne Joined: Posts: 1,247

    So what are peoples thoughts on H'el on Earth?

    I'm liking it quite a lot. It's good to see the rebooted characters cut loose and Superman be the badass that he is.

     

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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    My knee jerk reaction is that I have no real interest in any Superman story written by Scott Lobdell and Tom DeFalco. Maybe if it were 1992 and I was nine years old again - but even then I still didn't like DeFalco's comics. The concept sounds stupid (let's start with the name: "H'el," really?) and the artwork looks awful.

    My polite thought is that I have not read the story so I really have no comment.
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  • NinetiesArcadeNinetiesArcade Joined: Posts: 1,489
    Another big-fan of All-Star Superman here; thoroughly enjoyed reading it in my local library and bought it afterwards. I'm curious, what do you guys think of Secret Identity? I enjoyed reading it and loved the idea of superman getting old/naturally dying. Not as action-pack as ASS but still awesome imo.
    =============================================================
    "I put Soleil Moon Frye's breast reduction up with the Holocaust and Khmer Rouge purge as one of THE most senseless tragedies of the 20th Century." Return of Shiki.
    'Racism, that's the name of the game
    And you couldn't escape that if you was David Blaine
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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Secret Identity by Busiek and Immonen? It's one of my favorite Superman stories, too. Hits a lot of emotional notes without being contrived. The craft of it was impeccable. It's one of those stories that neatly summarizes most, if not all, of what makes Superman one of the greatest fictional characters.
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  • NinetiesArcadeNinetiesArcade Joined: Posts: 1,489
    Yea; I couldn't put it down after reading the first 5 pages. I thought it wouldn't work out since Lex Luthor was nowhere to be found in the story but everything in the story just made sense. I think the government chasing/trying to control Superman is more realistic than one-man's hell bent crusade to stop him. Busiek and Immonen did a great job conveying Superman as a normal person with hopes/dreams/problems etc that just happen to have supernatural abilities. Superman seemed more 'real'/'exposed' to me in this version compare to the other ones I've read. That's the best I can describe it.
    =============================================================
    "I put Soleil Moon Frye's breast reduction up with the Holocaust and Khmer Rouge purge as one of THE most senseless tragedies of the 20th Century." Return of Shiki.
    'Racism, that's the name of the game
    And you couldn't escape that if you was David Blaine
    Know what I'm sayin?' -Junk Science, House Wigger

  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, and the whole development of his marriage and family was handled in a particularly convincing manner. The way that Clark came to terms with his life and the character arc from his youth to his old age was impressive for a comic of that length.
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  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    Newsarama really needs a bigger "start here" button.
  • TelevisionTelevision Joined: Posts: 190
    im about to dive into what appears to be six years worth of this forum

    heres to hoping you dudes have been on point
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    One of my FB friends showed that to me. The thing that really stuck out to me is that they found a way to include the Superman video game for Atari 2600--a game that completely baffled me as a child. Something about Superman seems to defy being captured in game form.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Really? What about that amazing Superman game they made for N64?

    Or this modern classic? http://www.qualityjollity.com/MMOSGAME/MassMurdererOfSteel.html

    http://comicsalliance.com/kyle-baker-man-of-steel-parody-video-game/
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
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  • HardflashHardflash Joined: Posts: 3
    I'm waiting for the Superman vs. Batman movie. I think it's really a superhero movie to wait for. Hopefully it clicks well enough to lead to a future Justice League movie.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    Hardflash wrote: »
    I'm waiting for the Superman vs. Batman movie. I think it's really a superhero movie to wait for. Hopefully it clicks well enough to lead to a future Justice League movie.

    Currently the only thing that bugs me is Jessie Lexenberg but I have to admit, Ben Affleck and Gal Gadot actually look good in costume, surpirisingly. So maybe it's another smart move. Hard to say until the movie comes out.

    I have some issues with Batman being around longer than Superman. Superman should always be the first modern day Super-Hero of any DC world. This is the only thing the 52 Reboot got right. No hate for the JSA, but if you are not going to introduce them after Superman becomes Superman they really should be on some alternate Earth. Well, it could still work for the movie giving it a Dark Knight Returns vibe without skipping to the far future so there's that.

    I'm hoping it won't have the same problem as Amazing Spider-Man 2, cramming too many characters in one movie to play catch up with the Marvel Studios Cinematic Universe.

    Then again I think Zack Snyder is smarter than Marc Webb (one guy who used to direct music videos is smarter than another guy who used to direct music videos ha ha) so it should turn out okay. I like Snyder too, as a person anyway. At conventions and on DVD commentaries he has a great attitude, defintely a fanboy.

    Kind of too bad that it's no longer going head to head with Captain America 3 on Free Comic Book Day weekend. Not surprising that it moved so they could make more loot instead of splitting the audience, but it would've been a fun weekend for us Marvel / DC fans. WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON? ROFL!

  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sweet Christmas. You guys actually think Superman v. Batman is worth your excitement? You actually like Zack Snyder over Marc Webb?

    You all deserve whatever turds you get.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,059 mod
    Sweet Christmas. You guys actually think Superman v. Batman is worth your excitement? You actually like Zack Snyder over Marc Webb?

    You all deserve whatever turds you get.

    Sorry that you really like 500 Days of Summer. I hear the Blu-Ray comes with 501 days. The extra day is another musical number and another painfully obvious indication that she's just not that into him. :P

  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I would rather watch 500 Years of Summer than spend a single day with a Zack Snyder movie.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
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