Spider-Man, The Amazing Thread

ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power UpJoined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
Seeing a Batman and Superman thread, I figured it was time for everyone's favorite web-slinger to get his due.

The reason Spidey is so popular has been stated countless times by so many people over the years: he's your everyday man. Despite his great powers, he is not immune to the trials and tribulations of everyday life. He's the original hardluck kid, but he still catches those much needed breaks.

If you want to check the Lee/Ditko, Lee/Romita era books, you can check either the Marvel Masterworks books, Essential Amazing Spider-Man vols., or pick up 40 Years of Amazing Spider-Man, a CD-ROM collection of over 500 ASM comics on 1 disc.

Actually, Spider-Man has had a TON of good runs with various different writers and artists. Those that say Spidey was only good back in '60s-'70s are drinking drano.

Remember, true believers, with great power, comes great responsibility!
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Comments

  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,040 mod
    40 Years of Amazing Spider-Man, a CD-ROM collection of over 500 ASM comics spanning 11 discs.

    Correction, the DVD-Rom is only one disc. Still has 40 years of comics like you said. Technology is scary....

    I read an issue whenever I can on the DVD-Rom and I'm up to issue 15, 1964. Haven't read the Lee/Ditko stories in years, and it's cool because they reprint the old letters too! In 14 they started talking about the first annual in 1964 coming soon so I'll go read that next, he fights the Sinister Six for the first time. After that in 15 he meets Daredevil and the Ringmaster, another story I haven't read in a long time.

    Spider-Man's my favorite super hero and while not the first comic I read since I used to read my older brother's comics behind his back whenever he wasn't around, Amazing Spider-Man #269 was the first comic I ever paid money for. Some kid brought it into school and there were women wearing bikinis sunbathing on the roof, call it raging hormones lol! The story was called something like Cometh the Commuter and was written by Peter David, who would much later become my favorite comic book writer. :smile:

    My favorite villain is Eddie Brock/Venom but the old school Hobgoblin really has a special place in my heart, that "Who is the Hobgoblin" storyline was great! They kept us guessing for years! I remember when he had his mask removed and underneath it was Flash Thompson! Course it was a ruse but it was quite a shock! I still recall when Peter Parker went to visit Flash and he told him how ironic it was that the guy he used to call Puny Parker was now his best friend.

    I think the reason I like Spider-Man so much is because it's easy to identify with him, his problems with school, girlfriends, paying rent, job troubles, marriage troubles, Civil War beefs and everything else that bothers him. But when he puts on a suit he becomes another person, like a class clown covering up everything that is bothering him. And when he is written the right way he is really freaking funny, I can't count the number of times I've been reading a Spider-Man comic on the train and started laughing outloud! Even some of the things he says during the Lee/Ditko run still crack me up, a lot of the jokes still hold up! :rofl:
  • 4Play4Play Galactic Asshole Joined: Posts: 1,534
    Kraven's Last Hunt is one of the best Spidey stories ever.

    The kid who collected Spider-man is up there as well.

    Oh I have a fear that One more day is going to fuck up Spidey big time. Fuck Joe Q and his hate for the marriage.
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  • kane_warheadkane_warhead Blanka forever Joined: Posts: 1,532
    The kid who collected Spider-man is up there as well.

    Yeah it was a powerful story.
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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    My favorite Spider-Man writers are Bendis and Paul Jenkins, by far, especially in terms of writers with long runs.

    Kraven's Last Hunt was great stuff, too - DeMatteis is a really good writer. I reread that a year or two ago, and it's still one of the most outstanding Spidey stories I have encountered. When I was younger, DeMatteis had a run on Spectacular with Sal Buscema on art. That was my favorite Spider-Man series in the '90s. It was all about Harry Osborn and how the Green Goblin was messing up his life and the life of his family. I think those comics came out around the same era as Carnage and shit, and Amazing always seemed to pale in comparison because of that. And I don't like Carnage.

    JMS has been solid. And I don't care what other people think; I really enjoyed Sins Past. It is sad to have seen the good name of Gwen Stacy besmirched, but it was one of the few Spider-Man stories that really made me feel angry while I was reading it. (Angry at Norman Osborn, not angry at the stupid writer - though I understand why people would get pissed at JMS.)

    I would have to think for a while about my all-time favorite stories, though. For me, generally, Spidey is one of those characters I love because the ongoing soap opera of his life just captivates me. Every issue is an adventure, and when you string together a bunch of good issues, that's what I remember. It would be hard for me to boil it down.

    I do know my absolute favorite Spidey story is the Clone Saga from back in the '90s. It was an epic piece of storytelling that spanned multiple decades (because it really began back in the '70s) and multiple titles. It's amazing how well-thought out the entire saga was even though so many people were involved in writing and drawing it. The Clone Saga set the gold, nay, PLATINUM standard for comic book epics. I mean, it was long! But so consisitent. And the payoff at the end was, dare I say, AMAZING, SPECTACULAR, and WEB OF!!! That heart-rending ending when Ben Reilly (a true hero and, to many readers, the one true Spider-Man) melted away and the real Peter Parker swore to continue the legacy of Spider-Man was so touching. I cried when I read that - tears of sadness because poor Ben was dead but also tears of joy because I saw how much blood and sweat the fine folks at Marvel poured into the Greatest Comics Saga of All Time. I only wish it had been longer, because I stopped reading Spider-Man comics once it ended. I knew in my heart that after reading the Greatest Comics Saga of All Time, everything else that came afterwards would only be a disappointing letdown.
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  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    I think I would like to see Marvel receive an Academy Award for the Clone Saga. I realize that the Oscars are typically for movies only, but this is one case when I think we can all agree it would be fair and fitting to make an exception. Let us lobby for the formation of a new category: the Academy Award for the Greatest Comic Ever Made. 90s Spidey would be the only recipient.

    Also, "heart-rending ending" is a hell of a catchy rhyme.
  • SanchezSanchez Needs More Powerbomb Joined: Posts: 3,156
    And the payoff at the end was, dare I say, AMAZING, SPECTACULAR, and WEB OF!!!

    :lol::lol::lol:
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  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,040 mod
    JMS has been solid. And I don't care what other people think; I really enjoyed Sins Past. It is sad to have seen the good name of Gwen Stacy besmirched, but it was one of the few Spider-Man stories that really made me feel angry while I was reading it. (Angry at Norman Osborn, not angry at the stupid writer - though I understand why people would get pissed at JMS.)

    I also liked Sins Past. Only thing JMS was involved in that really bothered me was The Other. Also known as Oh Brother...

    Back in Black was a difficult story for me because it was hard for me to see Peter go so dark but it ended strong, can't really knock JMS for it.
  • chopperbyrnechopperbyrne Joined: Posts: 1,242
    First comic I ever read was part one of Spidey Vs Juggernaut. I was hooked on comics from then on.
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  • Carpet LintCarpet Lint MUHFUGGA NEVA LOVED US Joined: Posts: 3,404
    Honestly, my biggest problem with the whole Clone Saga was that it didn't have enough symbiotes. Like everything else...love, drama, action, intrigue, tragedy...it was all there, but I really felt it was missing that crucial symbiote ingredient gives all stories that je ne sais pas element of awesomeness, you know?

    I think that was the problem that all mid 90's Marvel comics had. Not enough symbiotes. And not enough Wolverine as well, but you can only solve so many problems at a time. Why just stop at giving Venom 12 separate mini-series, his own monthly, Separation Anxiety, Planet of the Symbiotes, and that whole Hybrid thing? They should have pushed more of that MAXIMUM LETHAL PROTECTOR angle into even more stories, because I really feel that the grungy, slackerish, late 20's/early 30's loser male demographic didn't take to Carnage and Venom as much as they could have.

    If there was one thing the mid 90's era of comics (otherwise known as the Golder Than Golden Age) missed out on, it was more symbiote stories.

    Thank God that Marvel remembers all the good things that went right during that age and is trying to bring all those elements back, completely unchanged with more symbiote fun in New Avengers and that whole Venom vs. Carnage/Toxin thing from a couple months (or has it been years already?) back.

    I really hope Venom takes off again - I don't think we see enough Venom t-shirts around, and the other day I actually met a casual comic book fan that said Carnage was NOT his favourite villain. I mean...can you imagine!?!
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Symbiotes and clones are definitely the key ingredients to a successful Spider-Man story. How many decent Spider-Man stories have there been that DIDN'T have symbiotes or clones? I can think of Kraven's Last Hunt, and that's about it. And even that had Spidey wearing a black suit, in clear homage to the original symbiote.

    You know what would be really awesome? If they brought back Spidercide and had him bond with the Carnage symbiote. Soooo badass! Just imagine the baddest assed clone of Peter Parker combined with the ultimate expression of irrational hatred and power! It would be like if Batzarro and the Joker were combined into a single foe.

    And the Spidercide/Carnage arc could even bring back the mysterious Kaine, for added drama. Kaine was another amazing character. That's one reason why JMS' story with Ezekiel wasn't so hot - because Marvel already told the most mysterious, suspenseful, and thrilling storyarc ever when they introduced Kaine. Ezekiel just seemed like a cheap attempt to swipe a classic.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    je ne sais pas

    Fail. It's "Je ne sais quois." You live in Canada. How could you fuck that up?

    Z: Everytime someone mentions Spidercide, a part of me dies. Luckily, it's only the part that gives a shit about anything.
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    I just had the greatest idea ever: a Doomsday/Bane/Venom crossover.

    Wait, no, a Doomsday/Bane/CARNAGE crossover.
  • 4Play4Play Galactic Asshole Joined: Posts: 1,534
    With Norman Osborn as the mastermind behind it all.
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  • Carpet LintCarpet Lint MUHFUGGA NEVA LOVED US Joined: Posts: 3,404
    Fail. It's "Je ne sais quois." You live in Canada. How could you fuck that up?
    Ah, touche. I was a really bad French student though, in my defense. But c'est la vie, eh? Ah oui oui, mes amies! Ahauhauhau. <- please note that by using "amies" rather than "amis" I am thus referring to you as a singular female, which is a clever dig questioning your manhood.

    It's probably precisely my mandatory high school French credit that messed me up in the first place. Instead of "I don't know what" I literally translated just "I don't know" - and when you're getting C's and D's all throughout ELEMENTARY French class, "je ne sais pas" is the go-to French phrase that you absolutely must need to know for when the teacher tries to ask you anything in front of the class, because you can't speak in English while you're in the French classroom. And also "puis je aller aux toilettes?"

    Old habits die hard.

    Anyway.

    That crossover wouldn't work without some Image representation, to truly grasp the glory of that era. May I suggest some Youngblood?

    You know who was an awesome character that I really wish they would bring back? Judas Traveller. I don't think there's enough characters in comics that are both all mysterious AND all powerful. I really think we need to fill that void, especially with characters in western style cowboy hats as well.

    Thankfully - as again, Marvel always knows whats up - we have the Sentry to fill that role of the mysterious, all powerful character with the impossibly vague, yet extreme powerset. We just don't have enough of those characters, I think - we never did.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ah, touche. I was a really bad French student though, in my defense. But c'est la vie, eh? Ah oui oui, mes amies! Ahauhauhau. <- please note that by using "amies" rather than "amis" I am thus referring to you as a singular female, which is a clever dig questioning your manhood..

    But by adding the S you made it plural and called us all females. At least you would have if we were your friends. As it stands, the only people who should be offended exist solely in your head. ZING! And you fail again because of that. First math, now French... I'm beginning to see a pattern here...
    snip

    I just had an epiphany. Spawn. The Sentry. Precrisis Superman. Crossover. I skeeted twice while typing.
  • 4Play4Play Galactic Asshole Joined: Posts: 1,534
    That crossover wouldn't work without some Image representation, to truly grasp the glory of that era. May I suggest some Youngblood?

    Aren't they being rebooted for what the 27th time. Sounds like a legal headache to me. Just use one of the other colorful and original teams those creative peeps at Image made. Team Youngblood, Bloodstrike, Bloodpool, or Bloodsport.
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  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Correction, the DVD-Rom is only one disc. Still has 40 years of comics like you said. Technology is scary....

    I read an issue whenever I can on the DVD-Rom and I'm up to issue 15, 1964. Haven't read the Lee/Ditko stories in years, and it's cool because they reprint the old letters too! In 14 they started talking about the first annual in 1964 coming soon so I'll go read that next, he fights the Sinister Six for the first time. After that in 15 he meets Daredevil and the Ringmaster, another story I haven't read in a long time.

    I think the reason I like Spider-Man so much is because it's easy to identify with him, his problems with school, girlfriends, paying rent, job troubles, marriage troubles, Civil War beefs and everything else that bothers him. But when he puts on a suit he becomes another person, like a class clown covering up everything that is bothering him. And when he is written the right way he is really freaking funny, I can't count the number of times I've been reading a Spider-Man comic on the train and started laughing outloud! Even some of the things he says during the Lee/Ditko run still crack me up, a lot of the jokes still hold up! :rofl:

    40 Years of Amazing Spider-Man is on a single disc now? Cool. They still charging $40-50 for it? I'll buy it eventually.

    Spidey didn't meet Daredevil and fight Ringmaster until ASM#16. In ASM#15, Kraven entered Spidey's life for the first time. Just thought I'd throw that out there while we're correcting each other. :bgrin:

    I like Spider-Man for all the reasons you listed. This comic really is a soap opera for guys. It has hot babes, drama, and sweet action. As much as Peter has hated his powers and the grief that comes with them, getting bitten by that radioactive spider was the best thing that ever happend to him. One bite turned a nobody into a somebody. Thanks to that spider bite, he went from a nerd to being a nerd who fights crime, spouts wisecricks and dates hot babes that most guys will only dream of getting. Peter has changed so much since being Spider-Man, but at the same time, he's still the same. Peter has grown to the point where we really don't have to ask who is the real ID, Peter, or Spider-Man. In early stories he was still timid as Peter Parker but as Spider-Man, it was like he was so above it all. Now there really is no black and white between Peter and Spidey. Even before he reavled his ID in Civil War, he didn't have to do anything to hide his ID to keep people form suspecting Peter and Spidey were the same guy.


    My favorite Spider-Man writers are Bendis and Paul Jenkins, by far, especially in terms of writers with long runs.

    Kraven's Last Hunt was great stuff, too - DeMatteis is a really good writer. I reread that a year or two ago, and it's still one of the most outstanding Spidey stories I have encountered. When I was younger, DeMatteis had a run on Spectacular with Sal Buscema on art. That was my favorite Spider-Man series in the '90s. It was all about Harry Osborn and how the Green Goblin was messing up his life and the life of his family.

    JMS has been solid. And I don't care what other people think; I really enjoyed Sins Past. It is sad to have seen the good name of Gwen Stacy besmirched, but it was one of the few Spider-Man stories that really made me feel angry while I was reading it. (Angry at Norman Osborn, not angry at the stupid writer - though I understand why people would get pissed at JMS.)

    I would have to think for a while about my all-time favorite stories, though. For me, generally, Spidey is one of those characters I love because the ongoing soap opera of his life just captivates me. Every issue is an adventure, and when you string together a bunch of good issues, that's what I remember. It would be hard for me to boil it down.

    Bendis has done a great job on Ultimate Spider-Man, another of my fav books. Paul Jenkins is also dope. Man is one of my fav writers because of his work on the Spider books.

    I love JMS run on ASM. Screw those haters, I loved the Sins Past story arc. The only reason those I love My Little Pony so much it hurts hate the story is because it discraces the memory of Gwen to Gwen lovers. My opinion of the Gwen wasn't high even before I read Sins Past. Gwen was a whinney broad. Everytime Peter had to be Spidey, she pissed and moaned. That and her opinion on Spider-Man flip flopped like crazy. though in later stories, it was pretty clear that she hated Spider-Man because she believed he killed her father. Dem right there, was the breaks for Peter and Gwen. I honestly don't think she would have been able to handle the Spider-Man aspect of Peter's life. Gwen was also very much the damsel in distress type of woman, the complete opposite of MJ. It's actually funny that although I really don't care much for Gwen in the comics, I loved her in Spider-Man 3. Conversely, I hated MJ in Spidey 3 and not because of Kirsten Dunst. I enjoyed her as MJ in the first two movies but in 3, they wrote her to be the whinney broad Gwen was in the comics. Talk about a role reversal.

    I've only read two stories in the Kraven's Last Hunt storyline but I remember really enjoying them. They were also very dark. We saw a side of Kraven we never saw before. Not only did he "kill" Spider-Man, he BECAME Spider-Man. Justice was swifty and deadly with Kraven Spider-Man patroling NY. I need to pick up the trade of this story. It is a must read for all Spidey fans.

    DeMatties is indeed a dope writer. I have issue #189 of Spectacular Spider-Man. Harry becomes the Goblin again and things go nuts. I really want to read The Child Within story arc. Was another of DeMatties works. Spidey has to deal with Harry AND Vermin at the same time. Has it been collected into a TBP?
  • The Bucket Of TruthThe Bucket Of Truth VINTAGE Michael Cole Joined: Posts: 764 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    lol this thread is great
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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Gwen was a whinney broad. Everytime Peter had to be Spidey, she pissed and moaned.

    Hang on there, bub. You're saying that like all the other women Spidey ever dated didn't feel weirded out every time he had to "go buy some medicine" for Aunt May and sneak off to fight some costumed whacko. Mary Jane married him, and she still bitches about it all the time.

    Did you forget about the time MJ faked her death and then tried to live as an actress in California? Huh? What kind of allegedly loving and supportive wife does that?
    That and her opinion on Spider-Man flip flopped like crazy. though in later stories, it was pretty clear that she hated Spider-Man because she believed he killed her father. Dem right there, was the breaks for Peter and Gwen. I honestly don't think she would have been able to handle the Spider-Man aspect of Peter's life.

    So what if she was against Spidey most of the time? She still loved Peter Parker. Gwen Stacy was a smart lady; she went to college. She would have been able to reconcile her feelings if she knew the truth.

    Gwen was also very much the damsel in distress type of woman, the complete opposite of MJ.

    Almost every single female character in the Marvel Universe has been a damsel in distress at one point or another. MJ's been a damsel in distress before. How about the time when Peter Parker was hypnotized by the Jackal into attacking her (and their unborn child) and Ben Reilly (aka, The One True Spider-Man) had to rescue her?

    But you're right about Gwen being the complete opposite of MJ. Gwen was always portrayed as intelligent and mature. MJ started off as an airheaded party chick. The only reason MJ matured was because Gwen died.

    Also, Mary Jane's a smoker. Absolutely disgusting. Remember those '90s comics when she'd be so stressed out by Peter's life as Spider-Man that she got addicted to tobacco? Doesn't sound like a very strong woman to me. Gwen's got pink lungs; the autopsy proved it.

    Gwen had better hair, too. It was always so nice and straight. Every time I see a picture of Gwen in a comic book, I wish she were real so I could grab her hair and rub my face in it like a starving dog being presented with a juicy t-bone steak. Gwen always wore that cute hairband, too, like any classy dame from the '60s. MJ, on the other hand? Every day has the potential to be a bad hair day for her. Just look at Todd McFarlane's run. When he drew MJ, it was like her hair was pregnant and about to give birth to Spawn. Seriously, go back and look at a late '80s/early '90s T-Mac Spidey comic. MJ's hair was like a precursor to Spawn's cape. (Her butt was like Spawn's giant boot.) Not very flattering.

    Most importantly, Gwen is dead and MJ is alive. That is why I will always love and prefer Gwen more than Mary. Gwen is dead - she's a saint by default. A living woman cannot compare to a corpse, no siree. She's the perfect woman because she no longer has the ability to do something stupid with her life. It's like dear old Raul Julia, who was able to perish while at the peak of human existence - no one alive will EVER be able to measure up.

    The point is, Gwen S. is the perfect woman and you are no doubt out of your mind for hating on an angel, a sacred lamb. Mary Jane ain't nothing but a Hollaback Girl. Clean them spiderwebs outta your brain.
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  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hang on there, bub. You're saying that like all the other women Spidey ever dated didn't feel weirded out every time he had to "go buy some medicine" for Aunt May and sneak off to fight some costumed whacko. Mary Jane married him, and she still bitches about it all the time.

    Did you forget about the time MJ faked her death and then tried to live as an actress in California? Huh? What kind of allegedly loving and supportive wife does that?



    So what if she was against Spidey most of the time? She still loved Peter Parker. Gwen Stacy was a smart lady; she went to college. She would have been able to reconcile her feelings if she knew the truth.




    Almost every single female character in the Marvel Universe has been a damsel in distress at one point or another. MJ's been a damsel in distress before. How about the time when Peter Parker was hypnotized by the Jackal into attacking her (and their unborn child) and Ben Reilly (aka, The One True Spider-Man) had to rescue her?

    But you're right about Gwen being the complete opposite of MJ. Gwen was always portrayed as intelligent and mature. MJ started off as an airheaded party chick. The only reason MJ matured was because Gwen died.

    Also, Mary Jane's a smoker. Absolutely disgusting. Remember those '90s comics when she'd be so stressed out by Peter's life as Spider-Man that she got addicted to tobacco? Doesn't sound like a very strong woman to me. Gwen's got pink lungs; the autopsy proved it.

    Gwen had better hair, too. It was always so nice and straight. Every time I see a picture of Gwen in a comic book, I wish she were real so I could grab her hair and rub my face in it like a starving dog being presented with a juicy t-bone steak. Gwen always wore that cute hairband, too, like any classy dame from the '60s. MJ, on the other hand? Every day has the potential to be a bad hair day for her. Just look at Todd McFarlane's run. When he drew MJ, it was like her hair was pregnant and about to give birth to Spawn. Seriously, go back and look at a late '80s/early '90s T-Mac Spidey comic. MJ's hair was like a precursor to Spawn's cape. (Her butt was like Spawn's giant boot.) Not very flattering.

    Most importantly, Gwen is dead and MJ is alive. That is why I will always love and prefer Gwen more than Mary. Gwen is dead - she's a saint by default. A living woman cannot compare to a corpse, no siree. She's the perfect woman because she no longer has the ability to do something stupid with her life. It's like dear old Raul Julia, who was able to perish while at the peak of human existence - no one alive will EVER be able to measure up.

    The point is, Gwen S. is the perfect woman and you are no doubt out of your mind for hating on an angel, a sacred lamb. Mary Jane ain't nothing but a Hollaback Girl. Clean them spiderwebs outta your brain.

    I don't mean to turn this thread into a MJ vs. Gwen thing but I knew it was gonna pop up eventually. While I don't outright hate, Gwen, I don't think she's the "perfect" woman so many make her out to be/remember her as. Of course MJ isn't perfect either. As much as I love MJ, I HATE smoking and it sure rubbed Peter the wrong way. Of course she hasn't touched a cig in ages so its all good. As for the faked death, I thought MJ took that job and got on that plane to get away from a stalker. I didn't read that story, just read about it.

    I admit that Gwen kicking the bucket made for a heck of a story and the impact it had on Peter's life can be felt to this day, way too much, IMO. So many writers set Gwen up like she was perfect. OK, so MJ got to lessend into the role of damsel in distress because she got to live longer. And Gwen is better because she's dead? I disagree. A woman doesn't get to be better off because she's dead. She still made mistakes when she was alive. Remember when Gwen opened her mouth and told Aunt May not to smother Peter so much? By doing so, she drove Aunt May away, further complicating Peter's life. And don't forget, she banged Norman Osborn, Peter's worst enemy. She hurt Peter from beyond the grave. Actually, I was angery at Osborn when reading Sins Past, but it takes two to tango so as guilty as Osborn is, there's no changing the fact that Gwen royal screwed up. A woman loses points when she's dead and STILL manges to cause the ex problems.

    But clearly, you prefer Gwen and I prefer MJ. So I'll leave it at that. :bgrin:
  • m121akumam121akuma Power to Tearer Joined: Posts: 1,993
    I love JMS. One More Day is weak so far, but DAMN, just about everything else outside of The Other he's done for Spidey is GOLD. Especially Back in Black and ALL of his Romita Jr. era stuff.
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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I don't mean to turn this thread into a MJ vs. Gwen thing but I knew it was gonna pop up eventually.

    It's not really a Vs. Thread because Gwen's already won. We're just discussing the box score at this point.
    As for the faked death, I thought MJ took that job and got on that plane to get away from a stalker. I didn't read that story, just read about it.

    She still ignored his phone calls and told him to stay away for several months. She almost got a restraining order. Even when her face was on billboards and advertisements she still tried to hide from Peter. Gwen would never have done that. That's straight cold.
    She still made mistakes when she was alive. Remember when Gwen opened her mouth and told Aunt May not to smother Peter so much? By doing so, she drove Aunt May away, further complicating Peter's life.

    How is that a bad thing? She was trying to help Peter be less of a Mama's Boy (or Aunt's Boy, as the case may be). There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, Peter were less of a Mama's Boy, he wouldn't be faced with this predicament in One New Day. Aunt May's like 97 years old. She's had a pretty fulfilling life. Let her go, man. Let her rest. Instead, Peter is a Mama's Boy and now he's trying to fix the mistake of his life, the mistake buried deep in his subconscious: his marriage to MJ. I tell you, this whole thing would never have happened if Gwen didn't die. We wouldn't be talking about One More Delay and Brand New Day and JACKPOT. Lol, JACKPOT. Gwen never looked that stupid.
    And don't forget, she banged Norman Osborn, Peter's worst enemy.

    Very well. I shall grudgingly concede this point to you. That was Gwen's sole mistake of her entire life.
    She hurt Peter from beyond the grave.

    This, however, is a blatant lie. Gwen did not hurt Peter from beyond the grave. Mary Jane hurt Peter in Sins Past. Mary's the one who told him the truth about what happened between Gwen and Norman. If Mary had kept her mouth shut about the one night stand, Peter wouldn't have been so messed up. Mary thought by telling the truth, she was doing the right thing. But, nope. It was definitely the wrong thing to do. She should have allowed Peter to continue living a lie so that he could continue to be driven and focused.

    Or at least she could have told him years ago when they got married or something. Then he wouldn't have been taken by such surprise in Sins Past.

    But clearly, you prefer Gwen and I prefer MJ. So I'll leave it at that. :bgrin:

    :tup:
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • kane_warheadkane_warhead Blanka forever Joined: Posts: 1,532
    Are you serious?

    Mary Jane is better for the fact that she tolerates so much bullshit in her life. She's Peter's second love. She tolerates Peter's superheroic lifestyle. She was there when Peter was at his low.

    Gwen fucked Norman Osborn. That right there is alot wrong.

    Let the past go. Mary Jane is better.
    Sunod-Ako.com - Your Total Resource to Philippine Fighting Gaming
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Any of you guys ever check out spiderfan.org? Its a good site but many times I find that I disagree with some of their reviews and some of the rants and raves.

    Let's talk about Kingpin! Long before he was screwing up Matt Murdock's life, he was causing Spider-Man all kinds of problems. He first appeared in ASM#50 in part of a 3 part story arc. (BTW, the cover to ASM is instant win.) Despite Kingpin's size, only a small percentage of his body is fat. 2%, I believe. The rest of it is ALL MUSCLE. On many occasions Kingpin has been able to hold his own against Spidey, a guy who usually pulls his punches on foes that have no powers. To this day he's still one of my fav Spidey villains even though he's used more as a Daredevil villain now.

    Convesrely, Tarantual was a sucktacular villain from day one. Spidey even admited that he as D-list in a story arc Roger Stern wrote on his run in ASM in the '80s. Bravo for killing that loser off. Actually, I felt sorry for him, being turned into a spider and then begging to be killed. Why did Gerry Conway make another Tarantual in Spectacular Spider-Man? Was he mad that Stern killed off his lame villain? Hey, I have respect for Conway but Tarantual SUCKED. May he never appear in the Spider books ever again.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I like the Kingpin, but more as a Daredevil character. One thing I didn't like about a lot of old school Kingpin vs. Spidey fights is how Kingpin could stand his ground. I mean, when you boil it down, Wilson Fisk is basically just a super strong sumo wrestler in a white suit with a giant bib and purple pants. He should not be able to last more than a minute against Spider-Man.

    That's one thing I really enjoyed about JMS' Back in Black: the Kingpin getting humiliated so easily.

    I also like how Kingpin is involved with Spidey in Ultimate. That makes more sense to me. The way Fisk uses his power and resources to deal with Spidey, rather than just fighting him straight up. Ultimate Fisk was just more ruthless, too, and that's why the payoffs to his arcs are so satisfying.

    Back in the '60s, Kingpin was just treated as mostly a variation of the usual animal-themed opponent with whom Spidey would engage in fisticuffs. I just like the way he's portrayed today. A crimelord known as the Kingpin should be relentless in dealing with his foes. He should be destroying them from the inside out (see: Born Again) and ruining their personal lives before he crushes them in his spaghetti-stained palm.

    One Spidey story I sort of remember from when I was a kid was The Name of the Rose (or something like that) storyline in Web Of Spider-Man. (Alex Saviuk for the win, baby.) I don't remember too much of the specifics, only that it stood out in my mind and secured my lifelong addiction to Spider-Man. So if anyone remembers more about this storyline, I would like to hear about it.

    [EDIT: I just went to that SpiderFan.org site and found info about it there. It sounds like a pretty lame story. Oh, well. Um, either that or the guy who wrote the reviews doesn't know what's awesome because I am pretty sure I thought it WAS AWESOME back when I was nine years old!]

    But yeah, the Kingpin of the '60s was whack. And those purple pants - dude looked like he was trying to cosplay as the Joker but couldn't find a purple suit that fit his bulk so he just covered his top with a white coat and giant bib.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,040 mod
    I remember back in Gang War (late 80s I believe) when Spidey was fed up with Kingpin and he wanted to beat his ass. Then Daredevil intervened for some reason or other, prolly the usual "the law has to bring him down" and Spider-Man fought Daredevil wearing a Kingpin outfit, so Spidey could blow off his steam while the real Kingpin went unharmed. That's the Spidey/Kingpin story that sticks out in my mind most because it was so freaking funny to see Kingpin's head come off to reveal Daredevil in his DD costume underneath wearing stilts. :rofl:
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The reviewer at Spiderfan.org didn't like JMS Back In Black on ASM. He said Peter was acting so out of character. Hello, this isn't the first time Peter has been hungery for vengance. Remember what happend to Gwen? No joking around, no smart comebacks. Spidey was out for the Goblin's blood and he nearly killed him. And don't forget the Death of Jean DelWolf. Spidey was merciless. Dardevil had to keep him from killing Stan Carter. This is the thing about Spidey being an everyman hero: we see all sorts of sides to him, even his vengful side.

    Zeph, I'm with you 100% on JMS Spidey vs. Kingpin. Spidey beat him and got a perfect win. And after the fight, he basically said he owns Fisk. Fisk's rep is everything to him. For all the stuff he did to Daredevil and for having Aunt May shot, that was a well deserved beating. :rofl:

    So who are your fav Spider-Man artists? I LOVE John Romita Sr.'s work. His Spider-Man was so good it was emulated for decades! I wasn't too fond of Romita Jr.'s art back in the '90s but in 2002 it really grew on me and I've come to appreciate him and his work. Gil Kane has to to be one of the most inconsistent Spidey artists I've ever seen. His work on ASM#90 and ASM#121-122 was perfect. In other books it looks like absolute crap. That or it just plane doesn't work for Spidey.
  • Carpet LintCarpet Lint MUHFUGGA NEVA LOVED US Joined: Posts: 3,404
    I think the Ultimate Kingpin stories are like the only standout things about the Ultimate books so far - I haven't read that much to be honest, but the one arc where Peter gets the job doing the Bugle's website and fights the Ultimate Enforcers - that was a good story.

    One of my biggest shames as a comic book nerd is that I've never actually read Amazing Spider-Man #33 (where he's trapped under that big machine and the room is flooding) in any collected trades or anything either, and it's supposed to be one of the greatest sequences in comics and possibly the top Spidey moment of all time. It almost has to be - they go through it against almost verbatim like twice a year, and each time it's still good!
  • ViciousSLASHViciousSLASH Game Time Jones Joined: Posts: 7,509
    The best was when Dr Octopus beat the crap out of Peter when he was sick, took off his mask and then dismissed him as being an imposter.

    ( it might have been the same issue as the machine thing actually )

    Ol' school Spider Man was a super huge icon in the 60's. I was reading how he, along with the hulk, was considered a top counter cultural hero along with like che guerrera in a poll amongst college students.
    http://michaelpfeffer.blogspot.com I don't even update this, who cares
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    One of my biggest shames as a comic book nerd is that I've never actually read Amazing Spider-Man #33 (where he's trapped under that big machine and the room is flooding) in any collected trades or anything either, and it's supposed to be one of the greatest sequences in comics and possibly the top Spidey moment of all time. It almost has to be - they go through it against almost verbatim like twice a year, and each time it's still good!

    Do yourself a favor and pick of Essentail Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2. You can find that issue in there. That's the Master Planner trilogy, which begins in ASM #31. Ah, this is still an awesome story. Some of Stan and Steve's best work. Spidey lifting that huge weight is one of the greatest moments in comic history. They never really went into how strong Spidey was back then but all that weight had to be more than what he could possibly lift. Aunt May would die if he didn't lift it so Peter did what he had to.

    How about the Spidey/Human Torch friendship-rivalry? These guys butted heads just as often as they'd team-up. Maybe Marvel didn't want them to be all chummy like Supes and Bats were back then. I dunno the reason, but it made for great stories.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    For some Spidey and Human Torch action, check out Dan Slott's miniseries from a couple years back.
    http://www.amazon.com/Spider-Man-Human-Torch-Im-Stupid/dp/0785117237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195192190&sr=8-1

    That book is the motherfargin' truth. Except for some reason it's not in stock, but now you know what the cover looks like so you can find it at your store.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • 4Play4Play Galactic Asshole Joined: Posts: 1,534
    they should bring back Hobgoblin. I always thought he was great villain.
    SRK: 4Play(main), redpremium.
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    For some Spidey and Human Torch action, check out Dan Slott's miniseries from a couple years back.
    http://www.amazon.com/Spider-Man-Human-Torch-Im-Stupid/dp/0785117237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195192190&sr=8-1

    That book is the motherfargin' truth. Except for some reason it's not in stock, but now you know what the cover looks like so you can find it at your store.

    I may be able to find the single issues in my comic shop. Beats have to pay the price Amazon is asking. I saw the single issues but never thought to buy them.
    they should bring back Hobgoblin. I always thought he was great villain.

    Hobgoblin was indeed awesome. Def one of my fav Spidey villains. I actually have the issue where he first appeared, ASM#238. Great read. Gotta love how Marvel screwed with us for YEARS on who Hobby really was. It was over a decade until we found out he was Roderick Kingsley.

    Peter was the man when it came to women. Liz wanted to get with Peter when he became less timid. Gwen was all hot for Peter but was so irked by the fact that he was the only guy in school that wasn't openly drooling over her. And MJ probably wanted Peter more than any other woman, even when she was dating Harry. MJ never passed up a chance to make a play for Peter, even when Harry was around. Flash and Harry couldn't do anything about it. Peter was just that unblockable. :rofl:
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hobgoblin is probably my favorite Spider-Man villain. It sucks that his backstory's so damn convoluted, and even the story that finally tells us who he "really" is doesn't make much sense, but I always loved the concept of the character. And remember the "Demogoblin" from the early '90s? That was whack. I used to dream about writing a Spider-Man epic that involved the Hobgoblin, just so I could retcon the Demogoblin.

    One thing that always bugged me about those early Spidey stories was how Peter always got all the chicks. I mean, he was supposed to be the quintessential nerd and wimp, right? So how come all these hot chicks were always swooning over him? That was the sort of thing that took me out, as a reader, of the verisimilitude of his world. (LOL!!! I used the v-word in a conversation! That's my English degree in action!!!!!!)

    I mean, I could understand a few homely girls being mildly interested in him. That would've been believable. MAYBE even one pretty girl (Gwen, because she was smart and not shallow. Unlike Mary!) liking him could have been believable. But it's like you said, bub. There were so many chicks who were into him! Liz, Gwen, Betty Brant, MJ, Gloria Grant, Jessica Jones, Felicia Hardy, May Parker... The list just goes on and on. It was absurd.

    That's just plain taunting the average reader, who generally tended to be a nerd and thus identified with the title character of his favorite monthly serialized publication. See, reading Spider-Man comics as a kid really fucked me up for life. I thought it was okay to be a geeky nerd, because from reading Spidey, I actually thought girls were attracted to nerds. I thought it was okay to wear thick glasses and wool vests over button down shirts to high school. I thought it was okay to eat wheat cakes for breakfast every day. I thought it was normal to be a loser. From reading Spider-Man, I thought girls were naturally attracted to social outcasts. That's why, tonight for example, I am writing about comic books and still hoping a beautiful woman will somehow read my post and PM me so we can meet up and make wonderful comic book-reading babies together.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    If I remember right, Peter's level of female attention was a little more realistic in the Ditko days. In fact, it seemed like he could never catch a break, like he was damned to be alone. It was a little after that era that things got ridiculous with the women.
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, when Ditko was plotting, Peter had crappy luck with women, but if he stayed a lonely loser forever, he wouldn't have made much progress. Even in the Ditko days, Peter was way out of his introverted stage in soscial interaction with the ladies. Women just knew a good man when they saw one and Peter was as good as it got.

    One thing that irked me was that Peter actually decided to keep dating Black Cat after he revealed his identity to her. She was disgusted by the man behind the mask. But Peter, like everyone else, wants to be loved and in a relationship. Still, I felt that was one of his weakest moments. If she couldn't care for Peter, then she shoulda kicked her out of his aparetment, via the skylight entrance. So when he was boinking Black Cat, did he keep his mask on? Man, that's.... kinky?:sweat:
  • goodm0urninggoodm0urning AWKWARD... BITCH Joined: Posts: 14,235
    Yeah, when Ditko was plotting, Peter had crappy luck with women, but if he stayed a lonely loser forever, he wouldn't have made much progress. Even in the Ditko days, Peter was way out of his introverted stage in soscial interaction with the ladies. Women just knew a good man when they saw one and Peter was as good as it got.
    Ditko's way was more realistic for a dork like Pete, but I agree that it would have gotten stale had they kept up with it. I also think Ditko was in love with the idea of a hero being 100% dedicated to his crime fighting activities, to the point where he sabotaged his personal relationships to avoid any potential lapses in judgment. Which is a little weird, since Ditko was also way into Ayn Rand, whose philosophy condemned that kind of self-sacrifice.
    One thing that irked me was that Peter actually decided to keep dating Black Cat after he revealed his identity to her. She was disgusted by the man behind the mask. But Peter, like everyone else, wants to be loved and in a relationship. Still, I felt that was one of his weakest moments. If she couldn't care for Peter, then she shoulda kicked her out of his aparetment, via the skylight entrance. So when he was boinking Black Cat, did he keep his mask on? Man, that's.... kinky?:sweat:
    Well, if Watchmen is any indication, the kind of personality it takes to put on a colorful costume and seek out the bad guys might also have bizarre tendencies in... shall we say... other areas of life.
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Denny O'Neil did a few issues on ASM. I read his ASM Annual #15. It was fantastic stuff. Story involved Doc Ock and Punisher. Denny is THE MAN. Everyone was written in character and Spidey's oneliners were on point. I'm not sure if it's included on 40 Years of Amazing Spider-Man, but if it isn't I recommend trying to find a copy. The artwork is also sweet.

    My Spider-Sense is tingling! So one of the many things I've loved about Spidey is his powers. I think he's got some of the best ones imaginable. One of my fave's is his Spider-Sense. I mean the thing is nearly broken in early days as Peter can use it to decode messages. Of course Mysterio and Green Goblin figured out a way to roll cancel Spider-Sense with unique gas. Tough break, Spidey. One think that has irked me over the years is that some writers don't grasp how the Spider-Sense works. Stan Lee pretty much knew the ins and outs of it. It reacts to all forms of danger, be the danger coming from friends or foes. However, Gerry Conway, back in the day thought Spider-Sense shouldn't react to threats from friends. So when Aunt May knocked him over the head while he was Spidey, his Spider-Sense didn't go off. Same deal when the Jackal attacked him from behind. Lameness, man.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It reacts to all forms of danger, be the danger coming from friends or foes. However, Gerry Conway, back in the day thought Spider-Sense shouldn't react to threats from friends. So when Aunt May knocked him over the head while he was Spidey, his Spider-Sense didn't go off. Same deal when the Jackal attacked him from behind. Lameness, man.

    ::Puts on The Clinty Hat::

    See, you might chalk that up to "lameness" or poor writing... But it's ALL SKILL, BABY. Nobody can defeat Aunt May (or the Jackal). Remember the time she stood up against Galactus?
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ::Puts on The Clinty Hat::

    See, you might chalk that up to "lameness" or poor writing... But it's ALL SKILL, BABY. Nobody can defeat Aunt May (or the Jackal). Remember the time she stood up against Galactus?

    Hmmm. When did Spidey go up against the planet eater exactly? Try as I might, I just can't remember it. Though seeing as how Spidey has fought practically ever bad guy in the Marvel universe, I'm sure he's taken on one of the FF's greatest foes.

    That's one thing I love about Spidey, he's able to hold his own, take down, or survive in fights against mega powerful enemies or when he's outnumbered. Take Secret Wars #3 for instance. Spidey took on 6-7 memebers of the X-Men all at once. A lesser writer would have shown Spidey getting his stuff wrecked, but Jim Shooter knew how it should go down. Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Nightcraler, Wolverine, Coloasus all ended up looking like scrubs when Spidey was all over the place. ALL SKILL, BABY!
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