Chang

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
Anyone know any set ups and special strats for him.
«1

Comments

  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    EDIT:

    What I like to use:

    Normals
    c.jab- Pretty fast. Good for stopping throw attempts, and if you're close, you can mash into his iron ball.
    c.strong- decent priority. Comes out a bit slow, but still great to use for anti-air and stuffing moves.
    c.fierce- an anti-air with excellent vertical reach, but horrible lag/recovery. This loses to adept A/P/K-Groove users wanting to bait you into sticking it out, obviously. You're better off using his c.strong for anti-air in situations like these, but otherwise, this move's pretty solid. Use only if you're looking for someone to jump at you, IF you're confident they have nothing to counter it.
    c.forward- a low poke with good reach and priority, snd faster than his c.strong. Good for stuffing moves and mix-up.
    c.roundhouse/DF+FP- this is one area where you should put your mix-up ability at work. The range on his c.roundhouse is good, but the recovery is horrible. Use it, but only at maximum range and for mixing up with his slide (DF+FP). Sliding is surprisingly fast, goes under most projectiles, covers distance, and is much safer. But to hit with it, it's most effective when they least expect it, as that's what it's clearly meant for. Not many would expect something like this from a big guy like Chang, so again, mix it up. Also, along with that comes Chang's......

    s.strong- I find myself doing this more accidentally, but if youre far enough, you can hit people out of the air with it.
    s.fierce/s.roundhouse- the recovery may be a little slow for these, too (though not quite as much as his c.RH), but both have VERY good range. So good, they can be deceptive for people thinking Chang's too slow to get near them, when he doesn't really have to. Shit, that's gotta be the one reason I LIKE using Chang in the first place! Therefore, s.fierce/s.roundhouse are a lot safer, and make terrific GC moves. Like his c.RH and slide, you want to throw quite a few of these in your mix-up game to keep pressure on cornered opponents, especially during their wake up. Also, his s.fierce can be used as anti-air from a distance, or as a pre-emptive anti-air if you stick it out early, just as people leave the ground. The s.roundhouse is among probably the second furthest reaching in the game, behind Dhalsim's limbs, and is best used at its maximum range.
    close s.RH- yet another decent anti-air. Comes out relatively quick and has nice recovery, something most of his other anti-airs lack.

    j.fierce- now THIS is a sweet, SWEET move. If you want to get in, by all means, use it. This makes every one of Chang's jump-ins all the more safe. If you want to jump over a fireball (save Sagat's High Tigers), this'll hit them clean, right before they can make it back to their standing animations and block. And unless they're in C-Groove, or controlling characters with high jumps, your opponents will not want to be in the air with you, as Chang's fierce will shut down almost everything they have to throw at you. The j.fierce is slightly laggy, so it takes getting use to. Just remember to stick it out a bit earlier than you think you have to, and you'll arm Chang with the "c.fp of the sky." :lol: j/k
    j.strong/j.forward- as good as his j.fierce is, youre not always going to get a chance to use it. Chang does have problems with people who manage to get close to him from the air, and because of the fierces lag, they wont hesitate to try and hit you out of it, and it often works. Fortunately, Changs mix-up options arent limited to ground games, and the j.strong/j.forward are just the right things to keep opponents off you in mid-air. They dont stick out that far, but with Changs large frame, the priority speaks for itself.
    j.roundhouse- fast, and does decent damage. It has no reach, so its clearly meant as a tool for low-jumping. I might even go as far as to say its THE best move to low jump with. Other than that, I cant think of much use for this. It stuffs a lot of moves just nicely if you hit with it at the initial moment of your jump, but it also leaves you open, not to mention without your much-needed tripgaurd.
    (BTW: If you want low jumps with Chang, but dont pick N-Groove, come see me so I can hurt you! :D J/k, Ill get to that in a minute).

    Throws- Use the punch throw to knock them anywhere, use the kick throw to keep them cornered, or throw them behind you if Chois not standing next to you.

    Specials

    Hold B, F+P- this is mostly used as a counter, with its counter time and reach varying on the button (ie. jab gives him the shortest time to counter a move, and throws the ball out at its shortest reach, and so on). If you think you can randomly insert this somewhere between your barrage of s.fps, s.-c.rhs, and slides to punish a normal on their reaction, do so. Sometimes works as anti-air, but only against deep jump-ins. This can also stop fireballs. Note: Do not RC this. Chang may have a long-ass roll, but its invincibility gets eaten up by this moves start-up.

    Spinning ball [tap P]- a [/i]relatively[/i] good anti-air by itself; simply a pain in the ass when RCed. If you havent gotten the hang of RCing this, then just stick with c.strong/fierce. And if you miss, don't forget to cancel it with 3P.

    HCB, F+P- this grab has short range, so its not always guaranteed to land on your part. It might do wonders as an RC, but only if youre some incredibly gifted RCer (HCB, F+P command grabs are some of the most inconsistent RCs ever). If you can, however, try to use this whenever they slip up (like roll blindly towards you), after theyve blocked Choi, or when you fuck up during the middle of Changs CC.

    HCB+K- I fuckin LOVE this move. The GC potential this has is too sweet. Its amazing how so many people try to jump over Choi or roll through him as if he were a projectile, only to get knocked the fuck down and get moved in on by Chang. You can provide this inconvenience continuously as long as youre far enough from opponents, and you get a free s.fp/rh if they hit Choi. But if they get within range of Changs s.rh, switch to the short version. It travels closest to Chang, allowing for more error on their rushdown. And no matter what the situation, always, ALWAYS RC it. At the least, if you do it at the last minute, theyll hit Choi instead, which could allow you a free throw in some cases. Not everyone is prepared to whiff through Changs thumb-up pose.
    Note: One neat set-up is to buffer this from a close s.rh. It combos when theyre in the corner. Anywhere else, and the roundhouse will push them away, far enough for them to try and jump, and get hit, or roll through and get thrown.

    HCF+K- Great anti-air from afar, great pressure nullifier from mid-screen. RC.

    DP+K- Choi may leap up in the air, but never confuse this as an anti-air. If anything, you can use it to chase down opponents jumping AWAY from you, but not as theyre jumping towards you. Even if you RC it. Its main purpose, though, is to provide a decoy for people to hit without forethought of taking a s.fp/rh from Chang. This move in particular does that best, as Choi can launch himself onto attacks anywhere on the screen.

    Supers
    QCF, HCB+P- this can be comboed from a c.strong/c.forward/c.fierce/s.forward/close s.rh. Use those to combo into his Lv.3 version if you can. In A, dont bother.

    HCBx2+ K- If theyre almost dead and they dont have access to an AC, you can use this on them in the corner to chip them to death, at least. Its useless otherwise.

    Changs A-Groove combo:
    Activate CC, [close s.fierce x2, s.strong]x2, s.forward x 16, c.forward, c.fierce XX QCF, HCB+P


    It is highly recommended that Chang be played in a rolling groove. A-Grooves perhaps the best choice for him. What makes him so scary is that he can keep people out for as long as he wants, until he decides to get in himself, hammering away with his long-range pokes and setting them up for mistakes with Choi (Gcing them in the process). To top it off, Chang does immense damage, and his CC does more damage than any of his Lv.3s. Any other groove for Chang will have to be either C or N; C for the added bonus of air-blocking, N for running (which I prefer) and low-jumping. What it boils down to is that Chang MUST have the ability to RC. If youre not using him in any of these grooves, youre simply not using Chang.

    Feel free to correct me on any of this.

    Whew,. damn, now that I look at all this. why the fuck CAN'T more people use Chang?
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    Just thought I'd add more to these.
    Originally posted by Kataklysmic


    s.strong- I find myself doing this more accidentally, but if youre far enough, you can hit people out of the air with it.

    His s.forward's used in much the same way.
    as good as his j.fierce is, youre not always going to get a chance to use it.

    This is because Chang suffers from the same problem as Dhalsim- when he's too close, his j.fierce and s.fierce may miss. I really should've noted this before.
    j.roundhouse- Other than that, I cant think of much use for this

    Whoops, sorry. On grounded opponents, you can use this if you're too close to hit with j.fierce.
    HCB+K-

    HCF+K-

    Another thing: Choi's attacks are negated if either he, or Chang, gets hit. But if they jump in, and you block an attack after Chang's thumb-up pose, Choi will still hit them with either of these. HCF+K works great against cross-ups, too, BTW (as if THAT were easy on Chang).
    DP+K- Choi may leap up in the air, but never confuse this as an anti-air. If anything, you can use it to chase down opponents jumping AWAY from you, but not as theyre jumping towards you.

    Well, I actually take that back. If you use the RH version, Choi will keep running until he reaches them before doing his slash, and the lighter versions will make him stop at a pre-designated distance. You can alternate between these, so it's, at least, a more useful anti-air than I imagined. Not that you really need to, but, you could throw this in if you want to be unpredictable (Dang, Chang's got mix-ups for everything!).
    HCBx2+ K- If theyre almost dead and they dont have access to an AC, you can use this on them in the corner to chip them to death, at least. Its useless otherwise.

    Actually, this isn't so bad, as it chips away at their gaurd meter, most important of all. Chang does have incredible GCing ability, and this could prove to be a nice supplement, given that Chang recovers BEFORE Choi finishes. I still wouldn't go beyond using it at Lv.1, though.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Cheap Chang tricks(:D ):

    Basic Chang trap:...... knock down in the corner, lk spinning choi, j.HKXXHP spinning ball. Crushes 3/4 guard meter. If they get hit cancel immediately and reset the trap. When you have a lvl1 built up, knock down and do choi hurricane (in the corner only).

    Command grab: s.LK ticked into command grab is easy since you don't even have to move forward like a normal tick throw.

    AA: Jump back HP is his best option, but if they're too close you'll have to settle for c.HP or just block.....
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I agree not a lot of people use Chang. I guess they think he's too slow. Anyways I've done that cornering trick many times and it works. I also find that opponets will not block his ground ball trip. Thanks Kataklysmic and pain definetly use these strats next time I go to the arcade.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Chang AA setup:
    Great vs DP/Wake up Super happy opponents.

    On the knockdown, do the ppppppppp chain whirly, then stop, activate.

    Great Chang example is on an NEC trailer Ino used in NEC vs Ricky O. you can get it on direct connect .

    Chang does bad against S-Groovers, his moves are way to laggy, can i get some tips against them? Chang does good against Cammy,Blanka,Sagat,Sakura,Bison, but i suggest you go use a Roll groove against Roll groove Sakura.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think Chang's best grooves are

    1.K/N
    2.A


    K and N are tied because you may have trouble against fireball characters, and N has roll, so roll cancel, and they both have run.

    A is second because his CC is Damaging. Though Chang is great at gaurd crushing, there is allways someone better than you who can get around this, and you might not get this GC consistantly.

    You should put chang in R1 or R2. i personally go Cammy/Kyo/ChangR2 in K groove, I put him last because he's matched up with bison, and i'd perfer someone with tons and tons of life and power who matches up good/well against Bison, but you can place him anywhere in your order.

    Chang's strength is that you can play aggresively but still stay safe. He's also very easy to pick up. Hell, my joystick was broken and the first time i picked up Chang was at an arcade, and he did pretty well. Now my stick isn't broken, so now i can practice him.

    Chang's weakness, maybe it's his matchups against some people. Fireballs don't really hurt chang, but it slows him down just a little bit. I really don't know his worst matchups, but i know that Claw Vega and Dhalsim played correctly are bad matchups.
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    I don't think that corner trap with Chang's spinning ball is that effective. They can still hit you out of hit in between each ball swing, so I don't use it. If I wanted to GC people in the corner, I could just do HCB+K, c.mk, then s.hp/hk. And if they roll, you know what to do......

    Personally, I've done good against several Sagats and Blankas with Chang, and a few Cammys and Chuns. S-Groove might give him problems; the only S I've lost badly too was Doc B's. After playing at Newpark yesterday, though, I'm starting to think he loses to good P-Grooves as well. Chang has lots of opportunities to hit people out of the air, but with parrying, it seems to backfire on him worse than any other character.

    Oh, one more thing: RC HCB+K can hit Blanka balls.

    Later.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I hate to flame, but I can't see any way to not be cheap with Chang. All you have to do is button-mash and you've given even the best players a run for their money.
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    Do you even play CvS2?
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Do you think I would be here if I didn't?
    I've seen it done.
    Chang corners, spins ball around, and there's very little you can do.
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    Seriously, even if Chang does manage to get close enough when he's got them cornered (as any good Chang player would do), he can get DPed, Supered, or ACed out of his ball easily. I tried it before, and I've seen THAT done. Many times. Even the friggin' CPU catches on.

    EDIT: I will give you this, though. It does add more to the "inexperience-against" factor that Chang has going for him, so I take it back. It is definitely not unstoppable or anywhere NEAR cheap, but like most of Chang's tricks, not many would realize that and just eat up the gaurd damage. Thing is, you really gotta work your ass off to get them in the corner and make them block. It's not as easy as you make it sound. And this is CvS2; button-mashing and CvS2 don't mix.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    I've been playing a lot of K-Chang lately, and now I have a change of opinion. Just a few more things from my original post that I want to correct:

    - I found that RCs aren't actually necessary if you want to play Chang well, after all. I'm sorry for placing so much emphasis on it. It's still a very good supplement, and it does make him more dangerous if you can RC everything he has (except his B, F+P), but you hardly need it. In fact, you hardly need to roll, which you probably shouldn't do anyway since Chang has the worst roll in the game. Now with that said-

    - Running is still necessary if you want to better your offense, and low-jumping too. You add more to the pressure and mad damage by throwing out Choi and rushing in with hard attacks. Without either of these, you're pretty much stuck turtling and throwing Choi out as bait for a Super/CC/throw/etc, which probably won't happen if they know when not to roll, or if they don't have rolling at all.

    - I don't know if I said this before, but alternate between the three HCB+Ks and DP+Ks to hit people out of the air.

    - If they're too close and all else fails, keep charging back and hit F+P when they jump in (Yep, I've been seriously undermining his autogaurd move).
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    I use the Chang trap more and more now. I haven't done it with too much success before, but I realized you don't need to jump in after Choi's HCB+K. Just mash right into the ball on recovery. It's still rollable, but if they try that shit, just hold back on the joystick and knock them back.

    Another thing to note about S-Groove: Since Chang's attacks have so much lag, the ideal thing for an S player would be to dodge constantly and counter him. Rush in, but when you see them dodge, don't get reckless by sticking something out. Just try to be more patient; that way they'll do something and leave themselves open.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Best grooves for chang:

    A and K hands down. He has one of the easiest and most damaging Customs in the game, and in he does massive damage when raged. a simple 2 hit combo when raged does more damage than most lvl 1 supers.

    then comes C: since he has hop dash and air block

    P: hop dash and airblock

    N: his worst. all he has is short jump roundhouse. He doesn't need run or need to roll, since his roll sucks.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    Watching Kat play the Chang trap on a number of people with some success, even against S-Groove, it helps to move Chang further out so the tip of his ball barely hits the opponent caught in the trap in order to reduce the chance of getting slammed by a VERY well timed dragon punch or a good Alpha Counter.

    However, I did see A-Sakura roll out of it once Kat moved out to this distance and throw his Chang.

    Probably a fluke, but the number of people who die to this trap alone is amazing.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    Originally posted by caliagent#3


    N: his worst. all he has is short jump roundhouse. He doesn't need run or need to roll, since his roll sucks.

    What easier way can Chang keep the pressure on without running? His roll sucks, but it gives him the added benefit of RC Choi and RC Ball. N's the only one that allows him to use both. Plus, you can just break stock and add more damage to your hits that way. It may not be his best groove, but his worst? No.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • yes4meyes4me F411ure 1z n07 4n 0p710n Joined: Posts: 329
    QUESTION1:
    Chang and Athena are my 2 main characters in CvS2. However Chang seems to do terrible against opponents who do a lot of poke string.

    I came to the conclusion that K is his worse groove, except if you are hell good at "just defence". And I really mean hell good. It is really hard to play Chang against people (and that's pretty much anyone who is not a scrub like me) who like to poke string a lot. You cannot get out because his anti air sucks, and he has no quick retalition moves. I got beaten almost perfect against any character who just rushes.

    And that even include shotos crossjumping all day long. I am serious... non stop. j.MK, jMK... do that 100 times, watch your guard break goes to 0 and no idea how to counter the shoto.

    Vega (LK move forward)*infinity is also a problem... god every opponent I have face is a problem!!

    Chun-li is probably the worse. She can crossjump all day long, does a series of pokes and breaks my guard all day long without giving Chang a chance to even hit her back.

    But that's my impression. If you have an idea how to beat any character, in particular Chun-li, that plays poke strings a lot, let me know.


    QUESTION2:
    What are his poke strings if your opponent is not in the corner?


    QUESTION3:
    Is there a way to do the spinning ball and cancel really really quick like Blanka electricity thingy? You know... spinning... cancel... spinning... cancel... but very fast
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    K is Chang's best groove. Japanese and gay people from California play Chang in K.
  • yes4meyes4me F411ure 1z n07 4n 0p710n Joined: Posts: 329
    Dumb expected question: WHY? Just because some jap and US people use it in K mode doesn't mean much without explication. In my experience, he seems to be better in C, N, or S mode.

    And someone, please... answer my questions.
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    I'll let Kat know this thread's alive again.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by Kataklysmic


    What easier way can Chang keep the pressure on without running? His roll sucks, but it gives him the added benefit of RC Choi and RC Ball. N's the only one that allows him to use both. Plus, you can just break stock and add more damage to your hits that way. It may not be his best groove, but his worst? No.

    Out of all the grooves to play chang in N should be the last one u pick. He doesn't need run, his dash is better. It sets up nice mind games with his slide. He still gets RC choi in A groove and c-groove. A and K groove are definitely his best grooves becuase he can do so much damage. His A groove CC (fiercex3,mpx2)x2, mkxN does really nice damage and catches people jumping in on him. In k-groove he gets short jump roundhouse, rage, and jd. N doesn't really offer chang much
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • yes4meyes4me F411ure 1z n07 4n 0p710n Joined: Posts: 329
    The last tournement I went to, I seen Ricky doing spinning kick all days long with Chun li A-groove versus Geo Vega P-groove... the result was so obvious: Vega couldn't move and very quickly he ended up in the corner, and died from guard crush and block damage. Ricky played Chun-li like that all the way to the last character and won the tournement in the most boring fashion. And if by some luck, Geo was able to beat Chun-li, Ricky does the same with Vega.

    Now, in my arcade place, there are some people who are somehow big fan of Ricky. They do the SAME shit as Ricky does... on my Chang. Tried 20+ times with Chang in K-grove, and lost 20+ times the same way: I always end up in the corner against a "spining kick" Chun-li. Explain me what would you do to beat that in K-grove?

    So what's really my point? You need roll no matter how bad it is... If not, you cannot escape this kind of trap. In the worse case, you need to be able to cancel roll. Having a low jump can also help to put pressure on your opponent. That's why I was thinking about N-groove more than K-grove.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    First of all when fighting against chun li with big characters u should always be aware that there is a 95% chance she will be doing her SBK trap on you. Now since u r using k-chang u have an advantage. Command grab. THe thing to look for when playing chun li is if she combos her SBK off of a crouching/standing mp or s.fierce. if she combos from crouching/standing mp then u can hit her in between the mp and sbk, so that shouldn't be a problem. If the sbk connects then command grab her when it ends. If she combos it off of a s.fierce then u have to take the hits of the sbk and then command grab when it ends. But u should realize that any groove chang versus chun li is bad matchup to begin with.

    Anyways, k-groove chang is top becasue when he is raged his corner trap is lethal. Since u do more guard damage when u raged, u can guard break someone then combo into super. Chang also gains jd into command grab, a simple j.fierce, s.fierce combo in rage does more damage than most lvl 1's and more damage than some lvl 2's. Chang isn't much of an offensive character. He's mostly keep away. N-groove doesn't provide him with many defensive options hence the reason N isn't his best groove
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    Gee-o doesen't play vega anymore, and vega doesen't get caught up in sbk traps. You sure it wasn't a different character
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by S4v
    Gee-o doesen't play vega anymore, and vega doesen't get caught up in sbk traps. You sure it wasn't a different character

    He's using the japanese names for the characters ---> Vega (psycho)
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    Ok...I dont know much about gee-o but when did he ever play p-bison? Like i asked before, are you sure it wasnt some other characters? I was at the nor cal team tourney (missed the singles) and gee-o was using CBS.
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • yes4meyes4me F411ure 1z n07 4n 0p710n Joined: Posts: 329
    I am sure he was using Vega in Sunnyvalle. I think he was using Vega/Sagat/Blanka in P-grove. And I am not using Japanese name.
  • MegaZangiefMegaZangief Mr. Endowed Joined: Posts: 298
    Originally posted by yes4me
    I am sure he was using Vega in Sunnyvalle. I think he was using Vega/Sagat/Blanka in P-grove. And I am not using Japanese name.

    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong if you said Ricky's Chun Li destroyed his Vega. I dont care who you are, Chun Li doesnt beat Vega.
    Magic the Gathering is better than Marvel
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong if you said Ricky's Chun Li destroyed his Vega. I dont care who you are, Chun Li doesnt beat Vega.

    That's a matter of skill, but the fact is chun li can't sbk on vega. It's doesen't hit him at all. This will be my last post on the subject of sbk and vega cuz it's truly taking away from the point the thread which is Chang.

    On the subject of Chang i'll add this. My boy plays p-chang and p chang doesen't seem that great to me but he's definitely annoying. Parry gives him options when he cant anti air and if he's getting rushed down. Just doing something as simple as 3 low lp's into the ball twirl thing after a parry is a 4 hit knockdown combo. Which gives chang the chance to send choi out and get back to the pressure game. Some people feel chang is keep away but i feel thats not his main point as much as it's just something he usually has to deal with due to the fact he's big and slow. People just rush down chang since he as slow normals (4 frame low lp) he can get counter hit while tryna break somebodies rush.

    My opinion is Changs game is pressure and guard breaking. Its a lot easier than people think and very hard to deal with. Just send little dude out then follow up...or not. Rarely will you get punished for it. What seems to always happen is fools try to get agressive and up eating the damage from choi or blocking it. Even worse is c groovers tryna jump and have to airblock that. The chip damage is pretty bad. At that point chang is on you maybe doing the just the ground slide with the ball. Or the low jump hp. By that time choi is back by your side and if you opponent sits for a sec just send him out again and see what happens. Its usually rinse repeat. After a few seconds they will be in the corner, scared, hurt or all the above. If they sit still throw em while the guard is blinking. Its pretty mindless on a basic level for p-chang. Even if you dont have it figured out just throw little dude out there and see what happens. Usually u can win by reacting to how they react

    Sorry for sidetracking the thread and any questions on p chang I can answer. Later
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • yes4meyes4me F411ure 1z n07 4n 0p710n Joined: Posts: 329
    Originally posted by MegaZangief


    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong if you said Ricky's Chun Li destroyed his Vega. I dont care who you are, Chun Li doesnt beat Vega.

    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you to say something like that IF you were not there. I was there... I saw the match in person. Geo (and pretty much everyone else) got raped 5 matches in a row by Chun-li. Yeah that's a total of almost 15 characters dead over the same trap by Chun-li. And we are not talking about some scrub like me. We are talking about Geo... who is supposed to be one of the best P-grove player out there.

    So what's my point? My point is that Vega is faster than Chang. If Geo's Vega cannot even escape from the trap of Chun-li, how can Chang have a chance?

    And yes, I don't care about your feelings too. I am here just to ask advices, not to bother with who you are.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by yes4me


    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you to say something like that IF you were not there. I was there... I saw the match in person. Geo (and pretty much everyone else) got raped 5 matches in a row by Chun-li. Yeah that's a total of almost 15 characters dead over the same trap by Chun-li. And we are not talking about some scrub like me. We are talking about Geo... who is supposed to be one of the best P-grove player out there.

    So what's my point? My point is that Vega is faster than Chang. If Geo's Vega cannot even escape from the trap of Chun-li, how can Chang have a chance?

    And yes, I don't care about your feelings too. I am here just to ask advices, not to bother with who you are.

    The thing wrong with your post is that chun cannot trap Claw vega, but she can trap psycho power bison. R u sure u r not using the japanese names? THere is no way chun can sbk trap claw vega. Anyways chang is diesel in k and a groove. P-groove gives him option select and c-groove gives him air block. N-groove only gives him short jump and counter movement
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • MegaZangiefMegaZangief Mr. Endowed Joined: Posts: 298
    Originally posted by yes4me


    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you to say something like that IF you were not there. I was there... I saw the match in person. Geo (and pretty much everyone else) got raped 5 matches in a row by Chun-li. Yeah that's a total of almost 15 characters dead over the same trap by Chun-li. And we are not talking about some scrub like me. We are talking about Geo... who is supposed to be one of the best P-grove player out there.

    So what's my point? My point is that Vega is faster than Chang. If Geo's Vega cannot even escape from the trap of Chun-li, how can Chang have a chance?

    And yes, I don't care about your feelings too. I am here just to ask advices, not to bother with who you are.

    Seriously are you that fucking stupid. Chun Li cannot use that trap on Vega, you have already made it clear you were not talking about the Japanese Vega either, so please stop making yourself look to be a bigger dumbass than you already have. That trap is not as great as you are trying to make it out to be. Unless he is using s.FP to buffer in the bird kick there are gaps.
    Magic the Gathering is better than Marvel
  • yes4meyes4me F411ure 1z n07 4n 0p710n Joined: Posts: 329
    Originally posted by caliagent#3


    The thing wrong with your post is that chun cannot trap Claw vega, but she can trap psycho power bison. R u sure u r not using the japanese names? THere is no way chun can sbk trap claw vega. Anyways chang is diesel in k and a groove. P-groove gives him option select and c-groove gives him air block. N-groove only gives him short jump and counter movement

    I am sure about what I am saying. Let me say it one last time, and after let's go back to the topic.

    Ricky Ortiz: Chun-li A grove.
    Geo: Sagat/Blanka/Vega(the guy with a mask and a claw)/Cammy/Bison P grove

    Ricky Ortiz won at least 2 times in a row using JUST chun-li almost perfect against the entire team of Geo. And twice I saw Geo's Vaga get destroyed by Chun-li. Like someone said before, it is probably because Ricky has a lot of skills to pull off an almost perfect trap that Geo cannot figure out how to get out.

    The guy above me says he can get out? Great to hear... how come Geo was not able to? I dunno... maybe he is implying that Geo is a fucking idiot too. Anyhow this is not my point. My point was how do you get out of her trap as Chang, knowing that someone faster than Chang(and that's pretty much everyone) cannot/have a hard time, and someone already answered the question a few post ago. If you want to argue all days long about Vega stuff even if you were not even there, it is fine but I am not going to reply anymore because it is NOT a "Chang" topic.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by yes4me
    snip

    U had to be hallucinating, becuase vega cannot be trapped by chun. Unless u guys were playing a new ver. of cvs2 that no one esle has, it is impossible for chun to trap vega. He is just not tall enough.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • MegaZangiefMegaZangief Mr. Endowed Joined: Posts: 298
    Originally posted by yes4me
    snip

    Ya maybe that is what I was implying based on what you were talking about. When I am playing Vega and some idiot attempts that trap on me all I do is duck...

    Depending on groove or what not you can quite a few options. Most obvious is keep Chun Li away. Which Chang is quite good at, jumping Fierce/jumping MP are great air to air moves. Things get better if you are playing K or P groove. JD or parry jump ins and do your command grab, it isn't hard. It is also extremely easy to parry/JD bird kicks, then do whatever you feel like...
    Magic the Gathering is better than Marvel
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    Chun-li's Spinning bird kick doesn't hit a crouching Vega (claw) if I'm not mistaken.

    Even though Ricky's chun beat Geo's vega... it wasn't because of the SBK trap.

    End story.

    I think chang's best groove is A. His customs are easy. roll cancel ball spin.
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    Originally posted by S4v


    My opinion is Changs game is pressure and guard breaking. Its a lot easier than people think and very hard to deal with. Just send little dude out then follow up...or not. Rarely will you get punished for it. What seems to always happen is fools try to get agressive and up eating the damage from choi or blocking it. Even worse is c groovers tryna jump and have to airblock that. The chip damage is pretty bad. At that point chang is on you maybe doing the just the ground slide with the ball. Or the low jump hp. By that time choi is back by your side and if you opponent sits for a sec just send him out again and see what happens. Its usually rinse repeat. After a few seconds they will be in the corner, scared, hurt or all the above. If they sit still throw em while the guard is blinking. Its pretty mindless on a basic level for p-chang. Even if you dont have it figured out just throw little dude out there and see what happens. Usually u can win by reacting to how they react

    You know, I couldn't agree more. I play Chang offensively, and though my focus is always trapping people in the corner, I often find myself GCing along the way without much effort. And P-Groove compensates him fine for his faulty defense. Thing is, I don't use him in P because my reaction time sucks, thus I can't parry jack.

    I've been playing him a lot in A-Groove, so now I do kinda like his dash better than his run. I still play him in N from time to time, though. Probably just because it suits the rest of my characters, but I don't mind.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I could have sworn that I posted this before, but for the person who asked, in CAP grooves you can build meter by mashing 3Xpunch. What happens is you keep starting and cancelling spinning ball for tonnes of meter.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    it's funny to me that no one is talking about turtling and keep away with the fat bastard. played correctly (cheaply), he can be a serious pain. send out the gimp and sit back. if they roll, grab. they already can't jump. if they just sit there, who cares? eventually they'll get frustrated and do something stupid. just be careful of rc's and you should do well. if they somehow manage to get in, god help you.
    and i definately think k is his best groove overall. once he's raged, the threat of eating a super puts chang in complete control of the match. jd at the right moment and you're basically guaranteed a grab. all skill. :lame:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    nice tips
  • Deacon_nccDeacon_ncc Joined: Posts: 32
    Anybody got any C Chang tips? I play C Chang Cammy Rugal 2

    with chang I just do Choi mix ups, mostly spinning and the forward wall thingy or whatever that is. I didn't know jumping hp was so good.

    What I do with Chang is Choi spin dash s.hp or near corner Choi Spin sj.hk Ball Spin. Lets u do Corner Trap from further out. But not against Sagat, Ken, Iori, and Kyo. I'm not sure about the rest. I think everybody else would just hit Choi, but that's unconfirmed. and probably :lame: but what can I say I'm a scrub.

    Also after guard crush I usually do cr.jab*2 cr.short XX qcf,hcb.mp cancel with ball spin toward the end. Does pretty good damage. I was playin A Chang but I had forgotten his CC, but now that I'm here I know it again lol. But now I'm liking C Chang more.

    Oh well I'm rambling so I'll stop now.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    what does everyone here feel is chang's best groove? i think k with a and c right behind it.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Tie between K & A, P, C
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • Shocky IIShocky II Churn that butter. Joined: Posts: 411
    Bump!

    c.jab x3 xx Spinning Ball is great, no doubt. But I have an alternative in the corner: meaty c.fierce xx Fierce Spinning Ball. It combos and is just as safe, plus it adds variety.

    No one has said anything about c.fierce being super cancelable. It isn't useful but neither is c.strong xx super and that has already been mentioned a couple times.

    For K-Chang you can punish some Just Defended projectiles halfscreen with a s.fierce. While on the topic of projectiles, Chang's slide will go under almost any projectile. Almost meaning not Sonic Booms or Low Tiger Shots. That slide is almost, if not as, good as the Blanka slide.
  • DaliPicardDaliPicard An XBoX Live Legend Joined: Posts: 276
    Deacon_ncc wrote:
    Anybody got any C Chang tips? I play C Chang Cammy Rugal 2

    with chang I just do Choi mix ups, mostly spinning and the forward wall thingy or whatever that is. I didn't know jumping hp was so good.

    What I do with Chang is Choi spin dash s.hp or near corner Choi Spin sj.hk Ball Spin. Lets u do Corner Trap from further out. But not against Sagat, Ken, Iori, and Kyo. I'm not sure about the rest. I think everybody else would just hit Choi, but that's unconfirmed. and probably :lame: but what can I say I'm a scrub.

    Also after guard crush I usually do cr.jab*2 cr.short XX qcf,hcb.mp cancel with ball spin toward the end. Does pretty good damage. I was playin A Chang but I had forgotten his CC, but now that I'm here I know it again lol. But now I'm liking C Chang more.

    Oh well I'm rambling so I'll stop now.

    Well I'll give one of my cheap tricks in C-Groove (ComboLESS tricks since if you ever play me you know I dont combo :smile:). If you playing against someone who likes to jump over Choi when you send him out. At about 1/2 screen distance between Chang and your opponent ssend Choi hcf + hk and if your opponent doesn't have air throw and jumps you jump at him with Chang while doing nothing but block and you'll knock your opponent back slightly into the range for choi's spinning 3 or 4 hit combo.

    Probably allready been mentioned but in corner and your oponnent has 1/2 gc meter you can slide --> lv1 1(fart) spinning ball (expect gcrush) cancel then level2.

    Also if your opponent is "smart" and rolls pass choi. You can bait the roll from about 1 character space and jump torwards and nail them with fp deep in the jump (the spacing should put you in a great position to hit when they leave roll animation).

    I'm sure there are RC strats but I don't use RC out of principle(and slow hands) unless I'm getting my ass beat. Cheapness: RC spinning ball, dash RC Spinning ball, up close RC Choi.

    And always remember that Chang has some of the best anti airs in the game (imo)

    1) jumpins from 2 character spaces away = cr.mp
    2) jumpins from 1 character space away = jump straight up mp
    3) jumpins from point blank range = cr fp
    4) jumpins from 2 or more character spaces away = j fp
    5) also from 1 character space you can use <- 2sec -> either jp or mp depending on how far(in frames) you need to extend its "built in parry"
    "Dali = Cheese
    He annoys me like no other when I play him. Lil' ho just sits on the other side of the screen sendin that whore Choi at you." -- Hurley Guy
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    one cheesy thing I learned about Chang over the weekend, is when using A-groove Chang, you can set them up with some pretty sweet corner traps. It may not do the most damage...but I still like it. Activate CC, and my CC for Chang is just forward + MK until they get in the corner. Once in the corner and the CC gauge is almost empty, start doing ball spin. If you can time it right, you can juggle them in the air for quite a while. Unless they have either a level 3 waiting, or some badass wakeups (like a dragon punch), keep doing ball swing. If they block, it will eventually crush their guard, and if they don't block...well they get hit. I did this to my friend's Geese, and he kept trying to do his counter but it wouldn't work....is there a reason for this? or was he just being retarded....
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    anyone play S groove chang?

    i recently started playing S-chang and its not that great, but im still working on it. some stuff i have so far:

    -hitting your opponent with hurricane choi gives you some time to charge if you dont want to go on the offensive.
    -in corner after a knockdown, you can play some decent mind games with choi and dodge, slide, LJ. ex:

    -knockdown, lk drill choi, run up XX dodge (opponent DPs or stand blocks flying choi), command grab. [choi wont hit]
    -knockdown, mk drill choi, run up XX dodge, [choi hits], empty low jump, command grab.

    work on these some more

    -midscreen dodge > K XX lp counter is decent. its like your getting a 2 for 1 deal.

    -after knockdown: fk choi drill at midscreen, run up XX dodge, then low jump/low hit anything when the opponent blocks choi. or c.lk > super/bnb/command grab if they dp choi or anything.

    basically this looks you're going on the offensive (run) then you suddenly become defensive. opponent most likely will try and counter with wake up super or DP which you use the dodge to...dodge it. or they'll stand up and block choi and you can go on from there. dodge keeps you safe, choi gives you back up, opponent has limited options. (do i counter and get punished? do i block choi and get GC'd? do i counter choi and get punished?)

    um yeah..scrub post. ive only been working on it for a week or so..
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I usually use K Chang or for a more offensive C. I'm just that lazy.
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    one cheesy thing I learned about Chang over the weekend, is when using A-groove Chang, you can set them up with some pretty sweet corner traps. It may not do the most damage...but I still like it. Activate CC, and my CC for Chang is just forward + MK until they get in the corner. Once in the corner and the CC gauge is almost empty, start doing ball spin. If you can time it right, you can juggle them in the air for quite a while. Unless they have either a level 3 waiting, or some badass wakeups (like a dragon punch), keep doing ball swing. If they block, it will eventually crush their guard, and if they don't block...well they get hit. I did this to my friend's Geese, and he kept trying to do his counter but it wouldn't work....is there a reason for this? or was he just being retarded....

    I don't think the spinning ball registers as one of Chang's limbs. Try to counter it and you're just going to get hit. The only "practical counter" probably is Eagle's auto-guard move, but realize that the spinning ball probably registers like a projectile, or whatever Choi and Mamahaha are.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I like Chang in S-groove, for run, dodge AND small jump...and come on...it's just not humanly possible to beat infinite level 1 Choi supers...you just can't do it! But no seriously though...I don't think a lot of people use Chang's charge back, forward + P move, but damn it's so good.

    and yea, ticking into his command grab.....ABUSE IT

    ok and wtf is Mamahaha, Hellion? It made me giggle to read that....

    but thanks for answering my issue with countering Chang's spinning ball
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.