Kyo quick notes, useful frame data

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
========
Normals:
========

close s.MP 800 0/0
3/12/11

Wow! Hits fast at only three frame startup. The hands down best use however, is as Kyo's best meaty attack. Probably the most meaty attack in the entire game at 12 frames. You can do it really early and the opponent is almost always forced to get up into it.

Link d.MP to combo afterwards. Mix that up with throwing and walk up, counter hit d.LKs. You can get upwards of +11 frame advantage if you have good timing skills.


far s.MP 900 -5/-5
4/6/22

This move is a four frame attack and has more range than d.MP. It does slightly more damage as well. However, yielding -5 on the block, this move is no where near as useful in your offensive patterns as d.MP is. This move should be your main punishing attack instead (and combo filler when facing big characters too). When you aren't raged to be able to do far s.HK xx super as your punisher, far s.MP xx rekkas is very useful.

Most notable uses:
-After blocking a dp+LP from the shotos
-After blocking a two-hit Bison scissors kick


d.MP 800 +6/+6
4/7/9

Gives just as much frame advantage as a c.LK? That's cheap. You can link two of these together. Great when blocked too. Use this move alot (up close, use s.HK whenever possible though).

Tip of Kyo's fist is invincible


close s.HK 1200 -1/-1
4/4/21

Completely safe on the block at -1. After a JD, you have to use close s.HK if you want to combo into MK launching kicks for some reason. In situations after a JD where you know you have a guaranteed free combo, always use close s.HK xx qcf+LP/qcf+HP/qcf+MK. Again, if you accidently get this move blocked, you're perfectly safe at -1. Punishing with combos that involved this move HURT.

Outside of after a JD, the main use of this move is to cancel into qcf+MK when the opponent leaves himself WIDE open. Up close, this move is suitable combo filler for combos starting with d.LK as well. At four frame startup, it's just as easy to link as d.MP or far s.MP.

Try not to use this move when you're not sure whether your attack is going to hit or not. You're left safe on the block at -1, but with moves that leave you at +6 or more like d.LK or d.MP, what's the point? Plus this move is a heavy attack as well, which pushes Kyo out of his optimal range of up close and in your face. Unless you know for sure you have a guaranteed combo, using one of the MP or light attacks up close is almost always better for you.


d.LK 200 +6/+6 o/o/o
3/4/7

The exact same frame data as d.LP. Only 100 damage sacraficed to hit low instead. Just as easy to link off d.LK as it is d.LP. Range is one pixel longer than d.LP. That's insignificant however as link d.MP won't reach at that distance. Since you are at +6 though, you either take a free run in or low jump.


d.LP 300 +6/+6 o/o/o
3/4/7

Against opponents that like dashing over your d.LK's (Bison, Eagle, Vega, and Cammy most notably), use d.LP against them instead. The frame data is the exact same as d.LK, only d.LP has a different, mid-hitting hit box.


close s.LP 400 +5/+5
2/6/6

Kyo's only two frame attack. The main use I have for this is punishing Sagat's level 1 or level 3 Tiger Raid super. Block high, then do close s.LP, d.LK, far s.MP xx rekka combo.

Oh, you can use this along with far s.LP whenever you want to whiff a high light attack on a crouching opponent, then throwing him too.


d.MK 900 -5/-5 x/x/o
7/9/16

The RANGE is what makes this move so great. It hits even further than his far s.HK! Not good up close though. Just a quick low poke. Think Sakura far s.HK (which hits in 8)...

This move will combo into the level 3 super from far range, but only on a counter hit. Anybody have any good setups?

-Meaty close s.MP, d.MP, d.MK
*leaves very little gaps, high possibilty of a counter hit


far s.HK 1300 -5/-5
7/7/24

One of the most useful ground attacks in the game. It goes over low attacks and can be canceled into level 3. When you're raged, use run up s.HK xx super to cover safe falls. Ouch!

This move has lower body invinciblity AND the tip of Kyo's foot is invincible.


d.HK 1300 knockdown/-2
8/6/22

This sweep is one of the best in the game. Hit's a little slow at 8 frames, however you can't beat the -2 recovery (most characters are at -12 plus).


df+HK 400+800 0/0
11/[4]/8/[4]/20

11 frame startup. Even on frames when hit or blocked


air d+HP 1400
8/6

This move is good. Am I safe after having this blocked from a low jump?


j.HP 1100
6/10

10 hit frames? Awesome! When used along with j.HK, Kyo has some of the most useful low jumping attacks in the game.


j.HK 1200
6/6

This move keeps the opponent from jumping at you.


f+HP 1300 knockdown/-3 x/o/o
14/10/20

Combos into orochinagi. Good as a meaty. Cancel into something when blocked.

You need this move to do K-Kyo's corner OTG combos. Launching kicks, juggle with f+HP, quickly canceled into qcf+LP, hcb+P, P. Big damage.

===========
Combo info:
===========

d.LK, d.MP
2 frame link

d.LK, s.HK
2 frame link

d.MP, d.MP
2 frame link

-The main punishing combo, for when the opponent is REALLY open, is run up close s.HK, qcf+MK, MK, juggle with dp+HK. It does a ton of damage. When you want more stun, you can use dp+HP instead of the dp+HK as well.

=========
Specials:
=========

-Always use the LP rekka chains only. When the opponent blocks, you're only left at -5 (same as Iori's). This is a significant difference over the MP rekka chain. You're left at -10 (!) after those and the opponent can hit you with whatever he wants.

-qcf+HP has 4 frames of autoguard. My friend, who's pretty good with Kyo, tells me to use this on a waking opponent. The trick is to time the autoguard portion perfectly. You'll blow through any wake-up dp, RC move, or whatever. This is hard for me though, so I can't really recommend it that much.

-qcf+HP, hcb+P gives you +1 frame advantage. The great thing is that you can delay any of Kyo's punch chain moves whenever you want too. The opponent blocked your qcf+HP? Wait a split second, then counter hit him with hcb+P. Now you should be at around +4 (at least +1). Kick throw him or go for a combo reset with d.LK.

=====
Anti-air
=====

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread62140.php

Intentional trading:

dp+MP 1700, 800
knockdown/-42
4/8/49
4 frame total body invincibilty,
followed by 4 frames of NOTHING
4 frames lower body invincibility

See those 4 frames of nothing in the frame data for dp+MP? That's what makes this tactic so special. For those who don't know this already, always attempt a deep dp+MP as your anti-air when you have a level 3 super ready. Kyo's dp+MP will trade with whatever jump-in the opponent threw out, and both characters will reel back. However, Kyo recovers MUCH faster than the opponent does and is free to juggle with a level 3 qcb, hcf+P super every time.
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Comments

  • KamuiKamui Joined: Posts: 304
    Note the amount of frames the move stays out. Stand strong stays out for 12 frames. That means it deosnt have to hit on the earliest possible frame. Its actual frame advantage in the guide refers to it hitting at the earliest possible frame. If the attack is done meaty enough, it will hit a character on wake up at a frame LATER then the earliest it can possibly hit.

    Stand strong stays out for 12 frames. If it were done meaty, timed to hit on a later frame then the first, and were to hit on say for example, the 6th hittable frame(instead of the first), your frame advantage/disadvantage at the end of that move gets a +6 advantage.

    I think stand strong might be a little overrated vs low strong meaty. Technically you can get the same amount or near same amount of frame advantage from both moves if timed correctly, but if you miss time stand strong and hit it too late, you get no advantage at all or not enough to make use of, while with low strong, even if you miss time it, you still get a +6 advantage.
    Originally posted by kcxj
    close s.MP 800/0/0 x/o/o
    3/12/11

    Hits FAST. Kyo's best MEATY. Probably the most meaty attack in the entire game at 12 frames. No frame advantage though. I wonder why?

    When done as a deep meaty (tested against Sagat), Kyo can actually link d.MP to combo afterwards. I don't understand how this works. The book does say plus/minus zero. I wish I could read Japanese. All of a sudden the move goes from 0 frame advantage when hit, to at least +5.

    Same thing with Ken being able to combo a 6 frame sweep from meaty s.HK that only gives +4. I don't get it.
    Ven - "This is scary...egotistical ol' Kamui and goofy ol' BonusKun VS. the wall of SNK otaku."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks Kamui, that's very helpful. :D
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by kcxj
    far s.HK 1300/-5/-5
    7/7/24

    Goes over low attacks. Still not as useful as Sak s.HK.

    Tip of Kyo's foot is invincible.

    It's useful if you have a level 2 or more ready, because unlike Sakura's s.roundhouse, you can (super) combo off of it.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Gunter


    It's useful if you have a level 2 or more ready, because unlike Sakura's s.roundhouse, you can (super) combo off of it.

    Is it a difficult link? (it is a link right)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Re: Re: Kyo quick notes, useful frame data
    Originally posted by Gwai Lo


    Is it a difficult link? (it is a link right)

    It's a cancel. I don't think you can link anything off a move that leaves you at -5.

    http://page.freett.com/QSYUKAPUESU2/index.htm

    Watch "goku-vs-desiken-1011.wmv". The Kyo player is excellent. He does the s.HK xx super thing vs. Sagat.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    s.rh xx super is great, but sometimes the level 2 won't hit.:bluu:
  • Gamma RayGamma Ray Bonerific Joined: Posts: 106
    sorry for sounding like a "n00b" heh..but I ahve no friggen clue what this thread is about..x/o/o? what is that?
    Infinite ammo. One Shot Kills. Rockets Only.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    u 4got kyo's c.mp, c.fp link. It combos without it being a counter hit. Does really good guard damage when c.fp is buffered into fierce rekka.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Re: Re: Re: Kyo quick notes, useful frame data
    Originally posted by kcxj


    It's a cancel. I don't think you can link anything off a move that leaves you at -5.

    http://page.freett.com/QSYUKAPUESU2/index.htm

    Watch "goku-vs-desiken-1011.wmv". The Kyo player is excellent. He does the s.HK xx super thing vs. Sagat.

    ah shit, i assumed you couldnt cancel that kick :) that's sick, p-kyo is so dirty...
  • 56565656 ! Joined: Posts: 32
    Is there any frame data on Kyo's specials? I'm pretty sure the first qcf lp rekka is only punishable by Cammy, Balrog and Rock's level 3 (and super throws) if blocked. I know Cammy and Balrog can still punish a blocked RED kick at the max distance. I haven't tested the others yet.
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    CVS2: P-Groove-Cammy,etc.
  • FreddyL0c0FreddyL0c0 Joined: Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    add vega and guile to that list (red impact, sonic hurricane)

    not sure about cammy though
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  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I also say Kyo has the best sweep in the game, good length, speed, really good priority (stuffs almost anything it touches i.e. Sagat's c.mk, anything of Blanka's).
    I can't really think with some with as good a sweep. Super throws punishing a blocked rekka? Have Zangief try to super Kyo after blocking and c.mp, c.lp, s.mp xx rekkaken.

    Kcxj: I always wondered about the frame data on a blocked R.E.D kick, post it if you can.
  • KamuiKamui Joined: Posts: 304
    Last time I checked the guide RED kick leaves him at something like a -3 or -4 for the short version, and 1 point less disadvantage for every consecutive strength after that. I think that data refers to it hitting at the latest possible momment though. Ive sat in training mode with another friend to check it, when blocked high, most characters can hit a low short to hit him on recovery.
    Originally posted by kcxj
    Kyo's RED kick leaves him at -1 when blocked. Unless somebody else who has the book can do it first, I'll post up some more data when I get a chance in a few days.
    Ven - "This is scary...egotistical ol' Kamui and goofy ol' BonusKun VS. the wall of SNK otaku."
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    Originally posted by Kamui
    Last time I checked the guide RED kick leaves him at something like a -3 or -4 for the short version, and 1 point less disadvantage for every consecutive strength after that. I think that data refers to it hitting at the latest possible momment though. Ive sat in training mode with another friend to check it, when blocked high, most characters can hit a low short to hit him on recovery.
    I'll second that. Frame data for a lot of aerial moves like Kyo's RED kick, Ken's flying craziness kick, Cammy's dive kick etc. are all totally dependant on what distance they are done at.

    And best sweep? I'd give that to either Rock or Vega. Honorable mention to Eagle, Geese and Iori.
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

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    bas: hahah of course no
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I know Kyo's sweep stuffs Rock's. Geese's sweep is strong, but very punishable if not used right, it gets stuft easily also.
  • UCRJesseUCRJesse Joined: Posts: 1,109
    Originally posted by RagingStormX
    I know Kyo's sweep stuffs Rock's. Geese's sweep is strong, but very punishable if not used right, it gets stuft easily also.

    Rock's sweep is fucking fast, combos into super, goes far, and makes him a small target.

    IT'S CRAZY!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It's a tie between Rock's, Vega's, and Rolento's IMO. Although Rock's sweep will beat out Vega's and Rolento's, both of the latters' sweeps move em forward and are unpunishable unless done near point-blank range. But yeah,... Rock's sweep is kinda uber. Although I kinda like Geese's too, bufferable into mp Rebukken dammit... man... if Rock could buffer his sweep into Rebukken....
  • CBCB Joined: Posts: 2,840
    I shouldn't have posted an opinion like that. Yo ODG, Rolento's, Kyo's, and Rock's sweeps aren't even in the same category. Rolento's sweep is a slide for one thing...

    The book says -3 for the short RED kick (the only semi-useful version) btw... Unless you want to be going meaty with like hard RED kick or something, which I wouldn't because there are better options.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You can also super/CC off Kyo's sweep. Morrigans sweep seems good to me. Off the the sweep subject now, It seems to me I get more frame advantage off a meaty c.mp than the close s.mp. It seems easier to link stuff after it.
  • amodfamodf Gargos porn Joined: Posts: 134
    To super or CC off of it you have to pretty much be right next to someone(slightly further away for a CC, but still fairly close), a range your never going to be doing low roundhouse at. Its cool its possible, but fairly useless in the long run.
    Originally posted by RagingStormX
    You can also super/CC off Kyo's sweep. Morrigans sweep seems good to me. Off the the sweep subject now, It seems to me I get more frame advantage off a meaty c.mp than the close s.mp. It seems easier to link stuff after it.
    ("TeamWhiteGuys" retekinf) I'm seeing if I want to spend $11 to play my old wizard
  • HeaTHeaT mindgames Joined: Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i think you had a question that said if d+fp in low jump is blocked if it is safe...

    it depends when you do it if you do it early in your jump no it is not safe...if you do it late yes you are basically safe and can actually combo (i think) into d+fp into rekka for mad gaurd damage...this is only if blocked...

    im outi

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    =======
    vs. Blanka
    =======

    Fighting RC electricity:
    Set dummy Blanka to do dash, RC electricity. Now find the closest range at where you can stand and have the RC electricity just barely whiff.

    Master this range.

    It's Kyo's optimal range versus Blanka. At this range, there's nothing Blanka can do to you without you being able to safely react to.

    Remember that if you duck down, you increase the size of your general hitbox as well. So always try to stay standing when you're fighting at this range (ie. not too close, but not too far either).

    Blanka RC electricity
    All versions have 13 frame recovery
    HP version always has at least 9 frame startup

    -From optimal range, do far s.MP xx qcf+LP combo every time you visably see scrub Blanka do dash, whiff RC electricity
    -From closer than optimal range, kick throw after the Blanka dash and BEFORE the electricity hits you
    -From farther than optimal range, press d.MK after you see the electricity whiff (note: also consider far s.HK xx super and d.HK. d.MK has the most range and safely hits low though)


    Fighting RC balls:

    Midscreen counters:
    -JD, walk forward, d.HK for the knockdown
    -JD, immediate neutral far s.HK (easiest)
    -JD, wait, neutral far s.HK xx cloud super (riskest because of difficult timing, but has the biggest reward)
    -block, reversal qcf+LP/MP (easiest)
    -block, reversal qcf+HP xx combo (riskest, biggest reward)

    Corner counters:
    If you have Blanka cornered, he'll try to RC ball to the other side of the screen a lot of the time. Don't let him. Do these counters instead.
    -block, qcf+LK, LK, juggle with cloud super, OTG punches
    -block, qcf+MK, MK, juggle with dp+MK, juggle with cloud super


    Fighting Blanka d.HP:

    Find the max range of this move.

    -When you're just outside of it's range, press s.HK when it whiffs
    -When you're inside the range, JD then far s.HK xx cloud super (IMPORTANT... so really practice this one)


    Ground Game:

    Find Kyo's optimal range mentioned in the first paragraph. Press far s.HK a few times. Notice Kyo's kick totally whiffs. Now have Blanka do a d.HP first, then press far s.HK. Wow! Kyo just kicked this fool from half screen away! Now stay at this range (give or take a few steps forward or backwards) and practice...

    -blocking low on reaction to Blanka slides
    -JDing Blanka balls on reaction, then punishing
    -punishing whiff Blanka d.HP with Kyo far s.HK
    -dp+HP against a Blanka jump-in
    -s.MP xx combo against Blanka dash, whiffed RC electricity
    -kick throw against Blanka dash, RC electricity attempts (if you're at slightly closer than optimal range and/or you were crouching already)

    In a real match, you want to be able to find, then walk in and out of this optimal range at will AND be able to comfortably perform any of the footsies tools listed above. As soon as you get any kind of knockdown, a jump-in opportunity, or are able to get in close with a low jump is when you can start your offensive. Until then, you always want to play patient in order to establish ground control first. Always try to bait Blanka into making the first mistake, counter him for a knockdown or whatever, then take your control and mix Blanka up until he dies.

    Low jump options:
    -lj.HP can get you in and will cleanly beat Blanka's d.HP
    -lj.HK can get you in and also takes out jumpers. Don't ever use this at too far a range where Blanka can go under you with df+HP though.
    -lj.MK can get you in from far. Stupid trick --> low jump MK, rdp+LK. If it works, viola! Instant offensive advantage.
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    good shit! this info will come in handy since im tryna figure out the kyo/blanka match up at this very moment
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by S4v
    good shit! this info will come in handy since im tryna figure out the kyo/blanka match up at this very moment
    Glad you found the thread useful, Jamaal. I appreciate the props coming from a fellow Kyo player. Be sure to post up if you find anything useful about match-ups as well.
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    Aight. This is groove specific but its pretty cool to know anyways. After blanka knocks you down and does rc elec to chip you he'll usually low hk/hp you. Hk is the more popular choice. This is when i usually parry and do somethin like s.hk/c.lk for some small damage. What was found out yesterday is that when timed right, the c.lk can not be parried after the elec. You're stuck in block stun and even tho you can move up and down while blocking, trying to parry will get you hit for free. BUT since the timing for the c.lk to combo off of the elec is strict, if you do get the parry, you can actually do the double kicks with mk > super. Or walk up and do s.mp > rekkas.
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ========
    vs. Sakura
    ========

    d.LK, d.LP, s.LK xx dp+HP is a very common combo she'll inevitably hit you with sooner or later. One of the follow-ups she commonly uses is to wait slightly, then super-deep, meaty cross-up j.MK. If you're blocking low as you get up, you'll get hit. If you're blocking in the wrong direction, you'll get hit. If you try to do hcb+HP for a "cross-up" dp, you'll get hit as well.

    The correct counter? Do a reversal dp+HP in the normal facing direction. Kyo's dp+HP will auto-correct itself to face the right direction and take Sakura right out of the air. Thanks, CvS2!

    Oh yeah, be careful if Sakura did walk back slightly, then j.MK so the jump-in hits from the front instead. The horizontal range on Kyo's dp+HP might make him go under the jump-in. Use your safe-fall/delayed getup a lot when you face an opponent who likes to play tricky like that. When in doubt, always better to just block or JD instead too.


    How the heck am I suppose to play footsies against Sakura?? Her far s.HK is way too cheap. The only thing I have so far is to stand at midrange and stick out an early d.MK so Sak gets stuffed on her startup. That's a terrible strategy to depend on 100% though. Seems like Sak can still walk up and s.HK me in the face whenever she wants.

    When I have Sagat, it's easy to keep her out with far s.LK. But when I'm using Kyo... damn, this match is hard.

    edit: oh yeah, I can hit her leg with Kyo far s.MP. If I whiff my far s.MP however, Sak gets to kick me in my recovery. :bluu: Anybody have some more tips for this match?
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by kcxj

    How the heck am I suppose to play footsies against Sakura?? Her far s.HK is way too cheap. The only thing I have so far is to stand at midrange and stick out an early d.MK so Sak gets stuffed on her startup. That's a terrible strategy to depend on 100% though. Seems like Sak can still walk up and s.HK me in the face whenever she wants.

    When I have Sagat, it's easy to keep her out with far s.LK. But when I'm using Kyo... damn, this match is hard.

    edit: oh yeah, I can hit her leg with Kyo far s.MP. If I whiff my far s.MP however, Sak gets to kick me in my recovery. :bluu: Anybody have some more tips for this match?

    She can abuse st hk pretty freely. I think you can try and bait it and punish with st lk (not much). In some weird cases I've been able to hit her with the tip of HIS st hk and to hit her leg she sticks out, but its a rarity. Maybe you can experiment with it or something ....
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    u use d/f+rh...that gets u in.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Okay. I tested out Kyo vs Sak (more spefically her st rh) and here's what I got

    st lk isn't good against it.

    st rh is good only if you anticipate it and poke her limb, kinda hard

    df+rh isn't too good against it. His first hit will go under the st rh so if she throws it out during that time he's okay. Not something I would go for.

    cr mp (tip) works decent, but you have to space it perfectly.

    The best option?

    cr roundhouse! From max range this will beat Sak's st rh cleanly everytime. He also goes low enough for it to duck under. Perfect!

    Let me know if this was useful. :(
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Hey Kxcj.....what does down+forward RH leave you with?

    I was guessing like a -2

    Not to punishable right?
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    whoa! im gonna test that out in training mode If it works like you say it does then you've helped me a lot. What i do is basic footsies against her. I try to make her whiff it by standing near max range. When she whiffs it i use that as a chance to get in with dash, low jump, empty low jump, df+hk, or normal jump. Neither of these will for sure hit her but it takes away her spacing and gives you some advantage depending on what you do.
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • NokatoNokato Joined: Posts: 1,662
    Thanks for the tips and strategies fighting Blanka. I find thats usually one of my hardest fights. I use A-Groove Kyo (>_<) and some of the tips are quite helpful. I'll post a small thing that I did find with Kyo that works in all grooves. Not sure if its really useful but nonetheless its something stumbled on. It seems that you can "kara" Kyos Toward +Fierce into Rekka. You probably can do this with any special but notably I did it with rekka. For the most part it looks totally useless seeing that I couldn't detect an increase in range in any way. I just thought maybe if someone here tried it they could find something from it or confirm that its pointless.

    I was also wondering if anyone's tried to actually whiff qcf+jab into Low Short/grab mixup? Or in instances where you condition the opponent to reverse grab and just do Stand Strong into rekka?

    After Kick throw is it really safe to do whiff qcf,shortx2 to switch to the other side? or is Kyo vulnerable. I used to use Kick Throw into dp+short and it worked for a while but Kyo can be hit before he can attack. Any suggestions?
  • MAGUS1234MAGUS1234 walk forward Joined: Posts: 3,993
    No it;s not safe.It might be if you do, c.kx2 qcfkx1,THEN do whiff qcfkx1,it switches side and pretty sure its safe(?).But they get up too fast off a throw.
    -Heres a neat one though...Fpthrow(midscreeen) dash forward then SJ. and you should be able to get a down+FP crossup.
    -The kara crap is only good to gain extra meter off whiffs, not usefull with kyo
    I came to Keystone II and all I got was DP'd.
  • NokatoNokato Joined: Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by MAGUS1234
    No it;s not safe.It might be if you do, c.kx2 qcfkx1,THEN do whiff qcfkx1,it switches side and pretty sure its safe(?).But they get up too fast off a throw.
    -Heres a neat one though...Fpthrow(midscreeen) dash forward then SJ. and you should be able to get a down+FP crossup.
    -The kara crap is only good to gain extra meter off whiffs, not usefull with kyo

    That what I thought about the whiff of Toward +Fierce into Rekka I didn't think it was really worth doing for the most part. Thanks for the info about the qcf+k whiff. Depending on the opponent, kick throw into whiff dp+short works but I still feel as if its unsafe unless the opponent doesnt know any better or an RC attempt after that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The only mix-up Kyo ever needs after any knockdown is to just walk forward. Just by doing that, you're showing your opponent you're in total control of the match and he's the one that's going to have to guess as he gets up. Trying to be fancy with kara-cancels, dp+LK, qcf+LK, crazy low jumps is honestly a total waste of energy in my my opinion... Just stay basic and walk forward instead.

    -timed d.LK will beat throw attempts and jumpers
    -walk back, walk forward, throw will beat blockers
    -walk back, timed d.LK will beat late throw attempts and late jumpers

    There's always potential for a counter hit when you do d.LK as well.

    Meaty close s.MP will beat wake- up mashers and force wake-up throwers to block.

    -meaty close s.MP, link d.MP xx combo
    -meaty close s.MP, link d.HP xx qcf+HP, mix-up with follow-up hcb+P mindgames
    -meaty close s.MP, walk up, throw
    -meaty close s.MP, walk up, counter hit d.LK

    Look at all the options you have already. What's the point of trying to be all crazy to look good or whatever, when you can just be basic and win instead?


    df+HK is +/-0 on the block. The basic Kyo strategy in the Jap guidebook says not to be desperate with random jump or roll-ins in order to get close, but to use the hard kicks to get in patiently and accurtately instead. Three main moves:

    -far s.HK has very good priority and lower body invincibility
    -d.HK
    -mixed up with df+HK

    The idea is to play so patient that the opponent makes the first mistake (ie. rolling) or lets you d.HK him. Either way, Kyo never goes on the offensive unless he gets the knockdown first.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Good info. Just curious I remember someone said his cr mp on meaty was better than st mp. Is that true? They seem to be pretty identical.
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • S4vS4v Team Cream Joined: Posts: 148
    He's right about not over doing itw ith kyo. Ive come up with crazy mixups that's not really needed and it also clogs my head with 10 ways to do the same thing. So yea learn the basic mix ups. by the time you have em down perfectly you prolly wont even try your crazier mix ups. Match will be over by then =]
    Take a chance you stupid ho
  • MAGUS1234MAGUS1234 walk forward Joined: Posts: 3,993
    Hmmm... makes sense. I started to pick him up the other day and think im going to stick with him.-Ok heres a Q's, after I parry a jump in I do c.lk,c.mp(or s.FK)qcfmk,shoryuken w/FK.This is the best option correct?
    And If I parry while jumping in, I do,j.Fk,land,S.Fkxxqcf mk,shoryuken w/FK

    -and if in corner I do the Mk shoryuken then super.
    And the basic ground combo should be c.lkx2,c.Mpxxrekkas. Or other??
    Are these my best options?

    -Ohh and when you start looking all cool and doing random ass stuff it actually makes it harder for the opponent to read what you are going to do, making them make mistakes, and sometimes thinking you set up patterns.I don't neccesarily do it, but it remains true in all games.for instance...-after knockdown you small jump over them,well this is already processing an overhead? a throw? a crossup? low hits? nothing?.Time it a little dif and you land in front, these tricks work, and especially versus ppl who don't know kyo well, and personally every little bit helps in P- when you play a annoying BISON/SAK...A-team.
    I came to Keystone II and all I got was DP'd.
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Originally posted by MAGUS1234
    Hmmm... makes sense. I started to pick him up the other day and think im going to stick with him.-Ok heres a Q's, after I parry a jump in I do c.lk,c.mp(or s.FK)qcfmk,shoryuken w/FK.This is the best option correct?
    And If I parry while jumping in, I do,j.Fk,land,S.Fkxxqcf mk,shoryuken w/FK

    If you parry an air attack, I'd say going for a knockdown is the most important thing. So I'd go for a parry > DP. It's really the only way Kyo is going to get in and do crazy damage, really. If you try to get fancy with it, you'll just end up getting DPed yourself against people who know what to do against parried air attacks.

    As for parrying while jumping in, I honestly don't know since I just smack 'em with a S.HK kick most of the time. I guess you could get a really big combo off it if you parry something with a lot of recovery.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • MAGUS1234MAGUS1234 walk forward Joined: Posts: 3,993
    Dp can be blocked on deep air attack.
    -ok when you land a FKthrow you can take a step back jump and get a wierd down+fp...sometime it lands on the non cross side??
    I came to Keystone II and all I got was DP'd.
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