To critique or not to critique

2

Comments

  • EphidelEphidel Old Man SRK Joined: Posts: 14,530 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by akumachan



    READ THAT POST PEOPLE.

    THAT IS THE ART GALLERY BIBLE.


    1. This is NOT art school. NOR is this critique class. This is a FAN ART Gallery. For fans. Not only for professional artists. EVERYONE IS WELCOME. and EVERYONE should be able to post art without fear of bashing.

    2. People post their art here for FUN.

    3. harsh critique should not be delivered unless asked for. (of course constructive comments are ALWAYS welcome

    4. NOT EVERYONE wants to be a professional artist one day. 90% of you just draw for fun.

    5. a PERSON drew the picture you are about to bash. And that person put a lot of effort into their work. That person also has FEELINGS.

    6. Remember the old saying.... "If you can't say something nice, don't say a goddamn thing at ALL" so have some damn common courtesy.

    7. Art bashing is a pet peeve of mine. I am very unforgiving when I see senseless bashing.



    anyway, now that i have more time on my hands I WILL be enforcing the critiquing rules. Yes you can critique, but use common sense. and remember the best thing you can do for a beginning artist is to ENCOURAGE THEM. This doesnt mean you cannot point out their faults, but be ENCOURAGING. I understand that constructive criticism is imperative for artists to get better, but use your GOOD judgment about how that critique should be worded.

    It is true in this world that some of us never use common sense a-chan, but your right about everything, encouraging a beginning artist is what makes the Fan Art Gallery fun. We all started low at some standard, and work or way up to talented drawers. I hope everyone can realize that....
    -Bulldancer
    You get to blaze medical marijuana in peace you lucky motherfucker. RIP bruv

    -Javi
    02’s can never be OG
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    one more thing. i would like to post some of my art so all you good people can tell me what im doin wrong, so i can fix it. do i need to scan it and save it or somthin like that? what i need do?
    p.s. sorry for the newbish question. you probly get it all the freakin time.:sweat:
    donkey
  • HanzouHanzou Genius of Fisticuffs Joined: Posts: 299
    If you want to learn hands, grab an anatomy book. You should be able to find something like that at your local library.

    As for critiques, I appreciate harsh ones. I even don't mind Sweet's abrasive methods. The thing about Sweet is that he hardly ever posts his own work on these boards, and the stuff I saw wasn't mind-blowing (though it was good). If SFMC gave me criticism, I'd take it more seriously than I would from Sweet, since SFMC posts a lot of his work and its always excellent.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    nifty. thanks
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,268 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by white shadow
    BTW, how do you put a pic on your computer on here? I've tried several times but it never seems to transfer and I REALLY want to see how my art fairs against you guys. (I'm no Da Vinci:p ) I draw with pen pencils and the mouse.:)

    :p
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm typing this all over again, from scratch. Damn computer.X_X

    I'm not qouting because there's too much to qoute.

    I agree with everything said by a-chan. My viewpoints, some anyway, you don't want me to type them all, are as follows:

    Fan art galleries are there to post your art and show it to other people. There's no reason to critique unless someone asks for it. I think a critique without constructive criticism can't even be called a critique. What's the point of even commenting if you're not going to give suggestions or a reference, something positive? No one wants to hear "Your art sucks." Don't point out every little flaw in someone's work, it hurts, even for those people who are all "I feel no emotions. Words do not effect me." it does, they just don't show it.

    EVERYONE started out "sub-standard" which is really basing their artwork off the majority's, which is the same as basing it off of one person's, making the words "sub-standard" and "average" really annoying and are just really worthless words in the English langauge, so limited... I don't compare myself to "average" art, I compare myself to what my goal is. Critiques are there to help me reach that goal, but they can still hurt, if said harshly. Watch what you say. It shouldn't matter wether somone is good or bad, it's art, enjoy it, they're putting it up because they want to. I started out crappy, Vango started out crappy, O' Keffe, all the manga artists. There's no reason to bash someone's artwork. No one deserves that.

    Another thing. People, grow up. You'd think that anyone above the age of 13, 15 and ESPECIALLY 18, would have the decency, the understanding of human emotions/ understanding of the consequences and common sense, which I know is hard to tap into for some people, to stop saying, "Oh, he did this." "Hey, she did that." There's no reason to put it on the boards. There's a PM system for a damn reason. Resolve your issues with people off the boards. Besides, these attacks and low blows just make you look like an idiot. It doesn't make the person you're attacking look worse, it makes you look worse. I, and I'm sure most others, though I don't speak for them, don't care what happened in the past. It's the past. (Obviously, this doesn't apply to repeat offenders, such as a serial killer, or those who have done horrible things.) Leave it alone, leave the person alone. No one wants to hear about it. I see it to every damn board I go to, except for a group of them where a group of people circulate through them and are mature, which is hard to find. Just stop the flames already. I don't care, and my bet is that no one else does either.


    I thank you very much if you've taken the time to read this post, as it has been long.^_^

    Any flames you may have can be directed at me by e-mail at: dragonflame327@yahoo.com

    Do be aware that all flames will be read, laughed at, and then deleted.^_^

    -DF

    PS- Society sucks. I know you agree. :p
  • EphidelEphidel Old Man SRK Joined: Posts: 14,530 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Originally posted by dragonflame327

    PS- Society sucks. I know you agree. :p [/B]


    Yes I do..............:evil:
    -Bulldancer
    You get to blaze medical marijuana in peace you lucky motherfucker. RIP bruv

    -Javi
    02’s can never be OG
  • akumachanakumachan going domestic Joined: Posts: 412
    wow, this thread kept going and going and going. :eek:

    Good to see people were actually reading it and understanding.

    its been a while, but eventually I'll start posting some stuff again. I miss drawing fan art.
    IT'S GETTIN REAL IN THE WHOLE FOODS PARKING LOT YO!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    bump
  • aerialgrooveaerialgroove Joined: Posts: 1,300
    Originally posted by phil sifu
    .... and there arent any "MASTER ARTISTS" here at these forums.... nobody has been crowned "KING ARTIST"
    all of us are still on the same road of learning..... some are just further ahead than others .... but we have all been there... everyone of us... there is not one single person here who can say that..."oh when i was 8 years old i just picked up a pencil and sketched out the whole cast of streetfighter zero perfectly...and thats how i started drawing....."
    weve all made mistakes......
    look at Akiman's old drawings of Street Fighter, they don't look that good at all. And over the years he got way better, you just have to keep on drawing.
  • Dreaded FistDreaded Fist Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Originally posted by BloodUrien
    bump

    This is late, but why did you bump a stickied thread?

    I dont know about you guys but a man has came along that goes by the name of SFMC who has revolutionize the way we critique. He paint/draw over the picture to show mistakes and then post smiley faces to show that he's good natured.
    www.phongworks.com
  • crazydiamondcrazydiamond Joined: Posts: 565
    Originally posted by aerialgroove

    look at Akiman's old drawings of Street Fighter, they don't look that good at all. And over the years he got way better, you just have to keep on drawing.

    I used to think Akiman's old drawings weren't good, but now that my eye is finer tuned I think his old drawings are AMAZING.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    grrr.... Goikigirl... you... and your sister... you've made me develop a very ugly style of criticising people.

    Here's my story:

    Back on f.net every time I wrote some remarks about Goukigirl's or her sister's art I was replied with constant flaming. I kinda got friendly with her sister, but Goikigirl declared IN PUBLIC that she and her sister PURLY HATE me.

    Since then I pretty much compliment an artist for every tiny good thing in their drawing while criticising their art. That's even if the drawing is completely horrid.

    I'd use SFMC's method, but I really don't think I'd run Open Canvas or PSP every time I want to comment a drawing.
  • D.ZD.Z Joined: Posts: 11
    umm...where are the pictures in this tread? i'd like to see some art from the any of the people mentioned thru out the entire agruement. links anyone? links?
  • Ryu Shinnosuke'Ryu Shinnosuke' hAZ|Holy Order Troll Joined: Posts: 205
    grrr.... Goikigirl... you... and your sister... you've made me develop a very ugly style of criticising people.
    What?? :confused:

    I'm not trying to stir up anything, but for as long as i can remember, you were criticising artwork from the beginning. A lot of it wasn't really bad-bad, just bad enough for some people to take the wrong way. You probably weren't aware that you were offending people, so i'll give you the benifit of doubt.
    Here's my story:

    Back on f.net every time I wrote some remarks about Goukigirl's or her sister's art I was replied with constant flaming. I kinda got friendly with her sister, but Goikigirl declared IN PUBLIC that she and her sister PURLY HATE me.


    Umm...You're wrong..We were never known for flame others; especially when it came to artwork. Uhhh, if you consider defending yourself or your drawings as flaming, then maybe we did "flame" you :confused: I always thought that flaming was being a hater, though :xeye:

    Our artwork has been trashed talked 100s of times by lots of people, but it was embarrassing more than anything else. When we did get mad, it was because random trolls dissed it just to do it(Even if they didn't even draw or drew very awful). And if it weren't for those people who bashed it & gave us tips(Not the trolls, but the other people), we would not have gotten much better, IMO. I agree, we did get mad at you a few times, mainly because you were always pointing out bad things about our's & other's artwork, while your's wasn't too great, either(No offense, i'm sure you're a GREAT artist now). You didn't really give out tips or compliments,
    either :confused:And we certainly never said we hated you :sad: Remember when i PMed you, trying to be your friend because we had a lot in common(My sis was cool with you, too because we learned how to understand you and we loved your sprite rips)? We started e-mailing eachother very often, but we lost contact after something very big happened in 2003, which shattered me & my family's lives...Life hasn't been too good this year, too...I'm wasting away and can't do a darn thing about it. But oh well...I'm more for defending other's than myself.
    Since then I pretty much compliment an artist for every tiny good thing in their drawing while criticising their art. That's even if the drawing is completely horrid.

    That's okay, but i think it's best to point out an equal amount of good & bad things(Not harsh), just my opinion, BTW:smile:
    I'd use SFMC's method, but I really don't think I'd run Open Canvas or PSP every time I want to comment a drawing.
    Well, i'm just trying to tell you that things weren't like how you thought they were... We never hated you or anyone else, so i can't see how you could say such a thing...We never lie to cover up crap, because that's just plain pathetic and IMO, lies only causes more throuble. I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything, either... I know you're good, we just all make/made mistakes. Anyway, peace:smile:

    P.S. PM me if you want to say more about this subject.
    GGXX AC: Main - Order Sol. Subs - Potemkin, Sol
    UMvC3: Wesker/Vergil/Dorm, Trish/Wesker/Vergil, Dorm/Doom/Vergil.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    grrr.... Goikigirl... you... and your sister... you've made me develop a very ugly style of criticising people.

    1. You(or atleast on F.net you do) criticise harshly/nitpick just if something was not perfect..! If memory serves me right, You attacked my Gouken's daughter drawing just because you didn't like the colors and you said you like 'Real'/Canon character of the SF storyline. You also said some guy's Cammy drawing looked nothing like her because she looked 'Too Cute' for you and you posted an Official CAPCOM drawing of Cammy just to prove him wrong plus said: "Does that look anything like her?"(insulting the guy's drawing)... Pathetic..!
    Do not insult us while trying to protect yourself..!
    Here's my story:

    Back on f.net every time I wrote some remarks about Goukigirl's or her sister's art I was replied with constant flaming. I kinda got friendly with her sister, but Goikigirl declared IN PUBLIC that she and her sister PURLY HATE me.

    2. We do not flame people for criticing our art and I do not remember EVER stating that i or my sister hated you, it seemed more of a good Friendship to me...
    If we ever said we dislike you it was probably your rudeness(check above)...
    Since then I pretty much compliment an artist for every tiny good thing in their drawing while criticising their art. That's even if the drawing is completely horrid.

    3. WOW! You sure must have changed since f.net then!
    Ahh yes, and why mention something 2 Years ago?
    To stir up crap? Definitely..! :lame: :tdown:


    P.S. This was not a flame.
  • Dreaded FistDreaded Fist Joined: Posts: 1,920
    OWNED!!! seriously, lets just post and take critiques. OFten I too get offended when my brother, SFMC, paint over my pictures w/o ever me asking him to do so. I spend 2 hours in photoshop and he just spend 10 minutes on a paint-over and it come out looking 10x better.











    ....nah, we cool.
    www.phongworks.com
  • rookrook amused observer Joined: Posts: 1,628 mod
    RS' & GoukiGirl... I'm cool with you gals but damn that's 2 long responses to an old post. If this goes further (ie; if Brain Digger shows up & the conversation gets heated) I'm gonna ask that you guys move this to PMs (or e-mail/AIM/MSN/etc).


    Personally I feel that crits should be constructive - don't shit on someone's work, they put time and effort into it. Pointing out areas for improvement is fine; dropping in a 2 word post "that sucks" is not... I fail to see the benefit of such a post; there's nothing sensible to discuss or defend.

    Usually ppl on this board don't give very harsh critiques, so you may have to explicitly ASK for it. More often than not you'll get by with a "that's cool" or something like that.
    square peg. round hole. large hammer.
    http://rook-over-here.deviantart.com
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    rook wrote:
    RS' & GoukiGirl... I'm cool with you gals but damn that's 2 long responses to an old post. If this goes further (ie; if Brain Digger shows up & the conversation gets heated) I'm gonna ask that you guys move this to PMs (or e-mail/AIM/MSN/etc).


    Personally I feel that crits should be constructive - don't shit on someone's work, they put time and effort into it. Pointing out areas for improvement is fine; dropping in a 2 word post "that sucks" is not... I fail to see the benefit of such a post; there's nothing sensible to discuss or defend.

    Usually ppl on this board don't give very harsh critiques, so you may have to explicitly ASK for it. More often than not you'll get by with a "that's cool" or something like that.


    Don't worry, i won't reply to him if he comes back because i don't want this thread to get ruined/closed.

    Peace out to one of my fave fan artist!
  • KandokenKandoken Ukettetato! Joined: Posts: 677
    Izzis still about Sweet? Where's he bin at? Was he banned? I miss'im.
    >/c( /.')>: BRING THE GRAPE!
  • rookrook amused observer Joined: Posts: 1,628 mod
    Kandoken wrote:
    Izzis still about Sweet? Where's he bin at? Was he banned? I miss'im.
    This thread existed way before Sweet posted on this board. There were... others before him.

    I have no idea on where he is, though. AFAIK he's not banned, and his last post was on 25 Oct 2004.
    square peg. round hole. large hammer.
    http://rook-over-here.deviantart.com
  • BengusBengus (べんがす) Joined: Posts: 76
    I used to think Akiman's old drawings weren't good, but now that my eye is finer tuned I think his old drawings are AMAZING.

    :smile: Akiman ?Capcom ???????????????????? Shoei ????! ????????!
    "Tell me what you tweet, and I'll tell you who you are." - Bengus-Savarin
  • DarkVegetaDarkVegeta []D - [] - []\/[] - []D Joined: Posts: 30
    -- Achan :wow: wasss happnin girl ^_^ dont kno if u remember me but i had to reply when i saw ur SN :pleased: been quite a while since i been on, but i thought sum 1 said u had left the boards when i cheked in a year or so ago :sad: happy to see they were wrong :clap:
    ><_>< Temporarily Sober ><_><
  • kurokumakurokuma Tengoku O Misete Yaru!!! Joined: Posts: 88
    one thing i have always felt was pretty retarded is when something is created that is not supposed to be real, and critics start to bash that item for its unrealistic look, style, or details. anyone els think this is just plain stupid?

    if you see a pic of and alien monster shooting a fire ball from his hands, there is nothing you can tell me about the size of his head compared to his body! there are no aliens like him that you can base the complaint off of.

    if you see a drawing of blanka doing his electric shock attack you cannot tell me that his muscles are wrong, you know why? because even if the muscles don't exist in the real world neither dose a big fuckin green mutated amazon monster man who can create electricity outta thin air!

    theres no fact that anyone can say about morrigan isn't she a succubus who can take souls and change dimensions? all you can do is compare her to the original, and even then you got nothing to say that is fact really because maybe the artist is trying to show the character in his or her own style.

    anyway i don't mind if people say "hey man, I'm not down with the big body little head that your alien dude is sportin" its a hell of a lot better than "aw man common! everyone knows that aliens bodies are 7 heads tall just like the great roman artist said!"

    as far as I'm concerned art has no rules, none of it. the only time art has a rule is when you need to imitate another persons style EXACTLY. thats just my opinion but if there where rules in art we wouldn't have even half of the cool things that we do in our everyday lives.

    anyway just my opinion. of course everyone has the right not to like something in any kind of art. but fantasy is fantasy because it is not REAL and thats pretty much my point.
    The worst enemy of the street fighter community IS the Street Fighter Community.
  • kurokumakurokuma Tengoku O Misete Yaru!!! Joined: Posts: 88
    I'm typing this all over again, from scratch. Damn computer.X_X

    I'm not qouting because there's too much to qoute.

    I agree with everything said by a-chan. My viewpoints, some anyway, you don't want me to type them all, are as follows:

    Fan art galleries are there to post your art and show it to other people. There's no reason to critique unless someone asks for it. I think a critique without constructive criticism can't even be called a critique. What's the point of even commenting if you're not going to give suggestions or a reference, something positive? No one wants to hear "Your art sucks." Don't point out every little flaw in someone's work, it hurts, even for those people who are all "I feel no emotions. Words do not effect me." it does, they just don't show it.

    EVERYONE started out "sub-standard" which is really basing their artwork off the majority's, which is the same as basing it off of one person's, making the words "sub-standard" and "average" really annoying and are just really worthless words in the English langauge, so limited... I don't compare myself to "average" art, I compare myself to what my goal is. Critiques are there to help me reach that goal, but they can still hurt, if said harshly. Watch what you say. It shouldn't matter wether somone is good or bad, it's art, enjoy it, they're putting it up because they want to. I started out crappy, Vango started out crappy, O' Keffe, all the manga artists. There's no reason to bash someone's artwork. No one deserves that.

    Another thing. People, grow up. You'd think that anyone above the age of 13, 15 and ESPECIALLY 18, would have the decency, the understanding of human emotions/ understanding of the consequences and common sense, which I know is hard to tap into for some people, to stop saying, "Oh, he did this." "Hey, she did that." There's no reason to put it on the boards. There's a PM system for a damn reason. Resolve your issues with people off the boards. Besides, these attacks and low blows just make you look like an idiot. It doesn't make the person you're attacking look worse, it makes you look worse. I, and I'm sure most others, though I don't speak for them, don't care what happened in the past. It's the past. (Obviously, this doesn't apply to repeat offenders, such as a serial killer, or those who have done horrible things.) Leave it alone, leave the person alone. No one wants to hear about it. I see it to every damn board I go to, except for a group of them where a group of people circulate through them and are mature, which is hard to find. Just stop the flames already. I don't care, and my bet is that no one else does either.


    I thank you very much if you've taken the time to read this post, as it has been long.^_^

    Any flames you may have can be directed at me by e-mail at: dragonflame327@yahoo.com

    Do be aware that all flames will be read, laughed at, and then deleted.^_^

    -DF

    PS- Society sucks. I know you agree. :p

    not to mention that whatever harsh critics think is a flaw in someones art is THEIR opinion and NOT fact.
    The worst enemy of the street fighter community IS the Street Fighter Community.
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    not to mention that whatever harsh critics think is a flaw in someones art is THEIR opinion and NOT fact.

    Generally yes, opinions are never facts. I don't know what kind of criticism you've been getting, but if you've drawn the muscles on Blanka wrong, someone points it out and you just use the "he doesn't exist in real life" argument, then you're just taking the easy way out, imo.
    You could also take someone's criticism, and learn from it, use it to look at your own work differently.

    If you're gonna post your work, you're doing it so people will see it. You also do it, because you want people to comment on it and tell you what a great job you're doing. If they don't like it, it's indeed their opinion, but don't tell people it's all their fault that they didn't like it.

    SRK is one of the least criticizing boards I've ever seen in regards to art. Whenever you post something here, you're bound to get at least 50% positive responses.
    If you take people's criticism and learn from it, just imagine how great your next drawing is gonna be. If you just keep saying people shouldn't criticize your work, you'll never get better and will stay at the same level for ever.

    It's as if you keep falling for the same tricks in a fighting game. If people tell you, don't use Rog's super against Gief, 'cause he'll just block and piledrive the shit out of you, you don't say: "It's just a game, you should let my super just hit you every now and then or it isn't fair!" Then you might as well just be playing against the computer.

    Which is like showing your drawings only to your mom.


    (This isn't solely directed against you btw, I just happened to quote your post.)

    EDIT: Of course, it's never okay to just say: "Your art sucks." Anyone who does that is a bitch. :arazz:
    Roald Dhalsim
  • Dreaded FistDreaded Fist Joined: Posts: 1,920
    one thing i have always felt was pretty retarded is when something is created that is not supposed to be real, and critics start to bash that item for its unrealistic look, style, or details. anyone els think this is just plain stupid?

    if you see a pic of and alien monster shooting a fire ball from his hands, there is nothing you can tell me about the size of his head compared to his body! there are no aliens like him that you can base the complaint off of.

    if you see a drawing of blanka doing his electric shock attack you cannot tell me that his muscles are wrong, you know why? because even if the muscles don't exist in the real world neither dose a big fuckin green mutated amazon monster man who can create electricity outta thin air!

    theres no fact that anyone can say about morrigan isn't she a succubus who can take souls and change dimensions? all you can do is compare her to the original, and even then you got nothing to say that is fact really because maybe the artist is trying to show the character in his or her own style.

    anyway i don't mind if people say "hey man, I'm not down with the big body little head that your alien dude is sportin" its a hell of a lot better than "aw man common! everyone knows that aliens bodies are 7 heads tall just like the great roman artist said!"

    as far as I'm concerned art has no rules, none of it. the only time art has a rule is when you need to imitate another persons style EXACTLY. thats just my opinion but if there where rules in art we wouldn't have even half of the cool things that we do in our everyday lives.

    anyway just my opinion. of course everyone has the right not to like something in any kind of art. but fantasy is fantasy because it is not REAL and thats pretty much my point.

    If art has no rules, then why would art schools exist? How are you suppose to get better at something if there are no rules? There is a method to everything, from anatomy to how a strand of hair should flow to the placement of text on an ad.

    If something looks wrong then there's probably a reason behind it. Fantasy art has to be grounded in reality to make it believable. I agree with Bob Sagat that you shouldn't use the fact that because something doesn't exist in real life that it shouldn't have to look realistic. If you drew Blanka with sausages on his body instead of muscles, then yeah something's gonna look off no matter what.

    EDIT: I know your post was posted a year ago and like bob sagat, I'm just quoting your post. Not directed against you.
    www.phongworks.com
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    OK. interesting discussion.. going on about critique..

    I agree with Bob Sagat on the critiquing... that you post to get feedback. whether positive or negative feedback.. it's at the critic's discretion. but as an artist, you have to take the both. I will add though, taking in a valid critique and one that's just a waste of time is at the artist's discretion.
    as far as I'm concerned art has no rules, none of it. the only time art has a rule is when you need to imitate another persons style EXACTLY. thats just my opinion but if there where rules in art we wouldn't have even half of the cool things that we do in our everyday lives.

    kurokuma, there are rules and theories in art. but in my opinion. you gotta learn the rules to break them.
  • pootnanniespootnannies addicted to bad things Joined: Posts: 3,052
    yeah there are rules obviously. you can bend them but if you bend them too much you break 'em and it's noticeable as hell. to a degree, even abstract paintings have rules. hmm. maybe not...
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

    psn: pootnannies
    ggpo: whodat?
    CFN: JawnPolygon
  • ScissormanScissorman Neal D. Anderson Joined: Posts: 1,167
    On alot of boards I've noticed(this one included) hardly anyone gives out critique and when someone asks for it, they deny any problems with their piece.

    And for the case of a member here(not going to say who) his critiques are good, but then he insults them in the process, which isn't helpful at all.
  • ProvidenceangleProvidenceangle お尻をおじさんは泣くことになる Joined: Posts: 483
    On alot of boards I've noticed(this one included) hardly anyone gives out critique and when someone asks for it, they deny any problems with their piece.

    And for the case of a member here(not going to say who) his critiques are good, but then he insults them in the process, which isn't helpful at all.
    Me? just kidding... Yeah it does seem like people are afraid to either: Hurt someone or be told they have no right to critique.
  • kurokumakurokuma Tengoku O Misete Yaru!!! Joined: Posts: 88
    OK. interesting discussion.. going on about critique..

    I agree with Bob Sagat on the critiquing... that you post to get feedback. whether positive or negative feedback.. it's at the critic's discretion. but as an artist, you have to take the both. I will add though, taking in a valid critique and one that's just a waste of time is at the artist's discretion.



    kurokuma, there are rules and theories in art. but in my opinion. you gotta learn the rules to break them.

    the rules and or theories are not important to an artists growth and are put there by people who want to make you into a carbon copy of those who came before you.

    just ask cave men painting on their cave walls or any other of historys past artist if they took any figure drawing or 3d art desighn classes before they started painting.



    point is when you make something it is art. and if it makes someone feel sumthin or if people like it, it is recognized art.

    this computer monitor im sitting in front of was created by an artist. our ipods where, my tooth brush was. if these people where following some kind of rule then i doubt we would have nearly as many useful things as we now do today. you dont have to break a rule if you didnt care about the rules in the first place.

    just ask akira noriaki, the artist of "jojo's bizzare adventure." his charachters are drawn all messed up looking with impossible body positions and a lot of times you can barely tell what the fuck is going on. but its great anyway. its different and fells like a dream like world. i cant even name another japanese manga with perfectly drawn characters that follow some hard core artistic rtules that are as populare as jojo in japan.

    most of the junk...no, damn near all of the junk art teachers teach kids in class boils down to putting your free flowing artistic ability into a box of their choice. the normal art teachers class is this: comic books are not art, this is my fav. artist!, his work is god, you will agree with me on that or you will fail, you will copy my fav. artist becouse he is right you are wrong and my art teacher and his art teacher before him where all made to copy this style, here are the tools you need to copy my fav. artists style, and your grade depends on how well you bend to these ideas regardless of whatever personal styles you may have cookin in your brain when you got here.

    this is every art teacher i have ever met in my life and when i was in college i was taking damn near 9 hours of art.

    everyone has a person they copy though so if there are any rules id say they are the ones we set ourselves based off of the art or artist we where inspiered by when we started. melodic death metal band "In Flames" was inspiered by "Iron Maiden" but their music sounds compleatly different. this is good insperation in my opinion, theres nothing wrong with that. just dont tell us that one artists rules are correct over all else and we have no choice other than to agree and carbon copy them.



    you lose a large percentage of your artistic freedom and abillity thinking that you can only make art one way. or that there are rules to it. i will never buy into that crap.

    everything we make is art and art exsisted before stuck up artistic rules came about boxin mufuckas artistic ideas in a little room.

    rules have nothing to do with art. and the rules that do exsist where made for one reason and that is so that other artist will continue to reproduce the same kinds of art only slightly different according to their individual art styles.....if all artist fall into this trap then our future artist are going to have a borring future indeed.

    anyway, im not saying you said any of this. it was just a more detailed rant about so called rules in art. just my opinion though, evewryone is different.
    The worst enemy of the street fighter community IS the Street Fighter Community.
  • Dreaded FistDreaded Fist Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Man I think you're going on and on about the rules of art and I'm not sure what rules you're referring to. I think you're missing the whole point here. Following the rules doesn't make you a carbon copy. Following the rules ensure that whatever you put on the paper will look believable and desirable. Also you're thinking about art in terms of fine art where as everyone here is speaking from an academic standpoint. Sure if you wanna draw like cavemen on walls then art rules won't matter. But if you're trying to draw something convincing, why not make it...convincing?



    "the rules and or theories are not important to an artists growth and are put there by people who want to make you into a carbon copy of those who came before you."
    Again I'm not sure what rules you're talking about but without studying what works and what doesn't, how are you going to get better? Why would you draw something wrong 100 times when you can just figure out why it doesn't work and draw it right the first time?


    All the extreme artists you see out there that exaggerates the hell out of the figures all know the rules before they "break" them. And by breaking the rules of natural anatomy and proportion they're following a different rule. That is the rule of exaggerating for effects. That's the difference between a good artist and a mediocre one, a good artist knows where and how much to push. If you ask me idolizing and studying artists with distinctive styles will just make you a carbon copy of them rather than learning the rules of art and applying them to your work.



    In the end if it doesn't make sense to you then do follow it, but find out why. But know that the rules of nature cannot be tampered with without understanding how things work. So study anatomy and perspective and I promise they will do more good than harm.
    www.phongworks.com
  • Bland_WolfBland_Wolf Are You OK? Joined: Posts: 419
    it's the truth. you gotta learn how to perform a fireball before you can start to use it in the way you want. without knowing the basics we wouldn't be able to manipulate them to surpass those limits. it's true, tho, that you don't need to learn the rules. ppl find out how to do things themselves all the time. but if we didn't pass on this knowledge everyone would be 50 years behind schedule.
    as far as art goes, imo, the most basic way i would put it is art is the representation of an idea. the boundaries are endless as to what you could call or not call art. and more so as everyone's experiences cause ppl to view things differently. but in this forum it's pretty obvious what type of art people post, or rather what they're intending to show. that skill alone is what makes everyone here --- EVERYONE --- good enough. and the more experienced folk here are just tryin to help and push others. and if the posters don't want that feedback that's cool too.
    all in all we learn the rules so we have a platform to launch from. not to chain us to the ground. and we have critiques to help each other launch from a stronger, higher platform. that's all.
    ~dizzy my future, silly my way~
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    the commands and or strategiess are not important to a player's growth and are put there by people who want to make you into a carbon copy of those who came before you.

    just ask people playing Street Fighter 1 if they looked up match vids or written down strategies before they started playing.

    I didn't feel like doing this to the entire post, but I think you know what the general response on this forum would be if this had been an FGD post.

    Also:
    this computer monitor im sitting in front of was created by an artist. our ipods where, my tooth brush was. if these people where following some kind of rule then i doubt we would have nearly as many useful things as we now do today. you dont have to break a rule if you didnt care about the rules in the first place.

    Technically, no. Those were invented by well, inventors, or I guess engineers. All these items you have listed are functional items, not art. They could become art in the hands of someone like, Marcel Duchamp, but that's another story.

    When cavemen were painting on walls, they were trying to paint real things; animals, each other, etc. They had no rules, sure, because they were the first to do this. They were trying to create and establish the rules we have today.
    The rules of naturalism(often mistakenly referred to as realism) aren't created by man, but by well, nature.
    Nature made things look a certain way, and anything that doesn't at least borrow some key elements from it will look strange to anyone.

    OF COURSE you don't have to follow any rules as an artist, but please, when someone throws a hissy fit when someone else tells them they can't draw 3 biceps on one arms because it looks stupid, who's really in the wrong here?

    When you draw a human, don't you draw the head in between the shoulders, or the legs at the bottom of the body? Sure, you can switch it around in the name of fantasy, or draw someone with an extra pair of arms (Goro :P), but you'll draw them in a way that it looks like your creation is alive. (Doesn't necessarily mean photo realistic, but you make it look like a living creature, not a random collage)

    I'm no advocate of pure naturalism, nor do I feel that everything that isn't drawn in a photo realistic way is bad, on the contrary. There is quite a thick line between bad art and abstracted art though.
    If you look at something and the artist's intention is clear, but it's also clear that that goal hasn't been reached, either due to poor skill, poor taste, or poor judgement, it's usually bad.
    That doesn't mean it can't be fixed though. And that's exactly what criticism is for! :woot:
    Roald Dhalsim
  • rookrook amused observer Joined: Posts: 1,628 mod
    while I'm sure there are people (usually grumpy, curmudgeonly art teachers who are stuck and unhappy) who rip ppl's art because they think they're this generation's answer to Rembrandt, I think there are tons more ppl who give constructive criticism for the sake of helping one another get better.

    I know that's how I improved. When ppl respond to my posts with comments like "hey, you need more work on your anatomy/linework/etc... his bicep really shouldn't look this way when he's in this position", I really appreciate it because ppl are taking the time to help me get better.

    As DFist mentioned -- ppl should try to know the rules before you intentionally break them. Anatomy, composition, a little bit on colour theory, etc. Yes, there are some ppl who catch these things really fast without much effort, but they are in the vast minority.

    And understanding the rules doesn't mean you should follow them all the time, but there is a difference between choosing to break the rules for intended effect, and breaking the rules because the artist didn't know any better. An artist can't deconstruct things properly without knowing why they work in the fist place.
    square peg. round hole. large hammer.
    http://rook-over-here.deviantart.com
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It's hard to determine the divide between harsh and constructive criticism. If we think harsh is something that hurts the feelings or sensibilities of the artist, then harsh criticism can also be constructive. I've met a few people who ask what I think and when I comment on what could use more attention, they get hurt.

    I understand other forms of harsh criticism. Saying it looks like crap, being offensive or insulting. Though this is just "stupid" criticism without real thinking, foresight, or effort into why they don't like it.

    It's like the difference between being told you suck at Street Fighter, or being told "okay, this is why you lost/try this next time/etc." Personally, as long as comments can help me better understand what's working/what's not, then a great favor has been granted. Though I also assume not everyone feels the same and only get into the nitty-gritty crits if that's what they're looking for.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    this thread is on like donkey kong :D
  • akumachanakumachan going domestic Joined: Posts: 412
    OMG. I can't believe this thread is still here and that people have been using recently. :sweat:
    IT'S GETTIN REAL IN THE WHOLE FOODS PARKING LOT YO!
  • HanzouHanzou Genius of Fisticuffs Joined: Posts: 299
    I love criticism only because it can help with a picture. My recent Hellboy picture got some great crits from various forums, and it helped me produce a better picture overall.

    Hellboycolor.jpg

    Yay!!

    Artists shouldn't be afraid of criticism. Just stop, listen, and embrace what someone is saying about your work. Be honest to yourself, and if your work needs improvement, IMPROVE it. If you can't take criticism, then you'll never improve because you believe your work is perfect. Nothing is perfect, everything needs improving.

    Now, that's not to say that you should take everything someone says to heart, or alter your style to fit someone else's vision of YOUR style. There's some real jerks out there who's criticism is completely useless to you.
  • InafuneInafune Joined: Posts: 9
    Wow, that's awesome work man...nice :tup:
  • ScissormanScissorman Neal D. Anderson Joined: Posts: 1,167
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin

    I think the visor is pure awesomeness. Good shading skills.

    My critique would be to crop the picture where his shoulders end and add a background.
  • DarkVegetaDarkVegeta []D - [] - []\/[] - []D Joined: Posts: 30
    are u still the same achan from years ago or someone else usin the acct? never did find out what happened to u.
    ><_>< Temporarily Sober ><_><
  • momokomomoko banana Joined: Posts: 5
    maybe a grey or neutral darker color background. since there's so much dark, the white sort of strains the eyes.
  • shubaccashubacca so many long time Joined: Posts: 329
    Artists wouldn't have explored theory if they didn't want to know why something did or didn't work. When something is irking you about your work, that is proof that there are rules/theory you haven't followed.

    Believe me, your ipod, and your monitor were indeed designed following some rules.

    I see where you come from. It simply comes down to what you do with the feedback. Those who want to improve, or those who wish to share what they enjoyed creating will handle criticism differently.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    -snip-
    Regarding critique: the word itself is synonymous with criticism. But in my opinion, any sort of criticism one could give could be reworded in the form of advice. Saying the exact same thing, but worded in a positive way instead of a negative way.

    Instead of saying "this is wrong it breaks the rules" one could say "try this, because..", and so on.

    It's true artists should not be afraid of crit, but, it's common courtesy to ask first before giving crit. Uninvited opinions are uninvited. Posting art to the public is not the same as posting words on a message board, because sometimes art is very a personal form of expression that is directly connected to ability/capability/thought/execution, and some people just do not enjoy having their heart and soul pissed on by uninvited guests.
    Let's play.
  • fistoftheryustarfistoftheryustar Joined: Posts: 2,170
    I dont critique unless they ask for opinions or give some hint they want criticism. i really hate it when someone realize the other artist made something they are jealous of and they say "HAY! But his left pinky nail is too far to the left!" You pretty much give your position away with that.
    My drawing:
    Mai cheats on Ryu - "Shin Shoryuken!"

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7115525&postcount=252
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    I usually don't ask for critiques much, but I do honestly want to get better at coloring in photoshop(I'm still garbage despite 10 years under my belt). Just posted up my latest work, comments/criticism would be greatly appreciated.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, panty shot, possibly nsfw
    http://akuuu.deviantart.com/#/d31gmr5
  • Mr ListMr List Lord of the Scrubs Joined: Posts: 1,393
    it's beyond my level to be able to judge that picture for flaws.
    Hey hey let's go kenka suru , Taisetsu no mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so let's fighting...
    Let's fighting love!
    Let's fighting love!
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