Is Sonic hot garbage?

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    answer to thread=yes
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    answer to thread=yes
    play Lucky. or play me if you're on east coast
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    And yet you've said nothing for about a month.

    I should have time nothing but time in the coming days (outside of Monday and then Thursday night).

    I can't really comment on the actual topic of this thread since I haven't really given Sonic a chance.

    whoa I said that definitely a long time ago...I had been pretty busy with college and life and what not...but now that summer has started. I think it's time...=D I'm not even sure if we've exchanged friend codes and do you frequent the brawl irc chat? I show up there occasionally. I would like to play your Snake and see how that match fares for the hedgehog.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,781 mod
    whoa I said that definitely a long time ago...I had been pretty busy with college and life and what not...but now that summer has started. I think it's time...=D I'm not even sure if we've exchanged friend codes and do you frequent the brawl irc chat? I show up there occasionally. I would like to play your Snake and see how that match fares for the hedgehog.

    Pretty much the only time I was on IRC was for the tournaments here.

    That said, I have to download mIRC again and otherwise put you in my Friend Code thing (but I do have the master list, afterall).

    So I'm ready when you are. I have free time until Thursday and then I work on Friday night as well. So...?

    (We might get to play each other Wednesday, regardless, though.)

    P.S. I do have to buy a new Gamecube controller since mine keeps sticking to up or down, but that hasn't really deterred me greatly at the moment. On top of that, though, I think my connection with Wi-Fi is acting up.

    But, yeah, whenever you want to do this, I can be on since no one else is at the moment.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Pretty much the only time I was on IRC was for the tournaments here.

    That said, I have to download mIRC again and otherwise put you in my Friend Code thing (but I do have the master list, afterall).

    So I'm ready when you are. I have free time until Thursday and then I work on Friday night as well. So...?

    (We might get to play each other Wednesday, regardless, though.)

    P.S. I do have to buy a new Gamecube controller since mine keeps sticking to up or down, but that hasn't really deterred me greatly at the moment. On top of that, though, I think my connection with Wi-Fi is acting up.

    But, yeah, whenever you want to do this, I can be on since no one else is at the moment.

    If you're free right now....then that'd be awesome. I'm jumping onto the iirc chat so if you show up on their I'll be waiting.

    Edit: better yet i'm gonna find your brawl code on the list and go ahead and put it in..if you happen to pop up online we'll brawl!
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,781 mod
    If you're free right now....then that'd be awesome. I'm jumping onto the iirc chat so if you show up on their I'll be waiting.

    Edit: better yet i'm gonna find your brawl code on the list and go ahead and put it in..if you happen to pop up online we'll brawl!

    Mine is 3652-0227-0431.

    I already have yours.

    I'll be on for like an hour or so. You can host the room since my thing is acting up.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Mine is 3652-0227-0431.

    I already have yours.

    I'll be on for like an hour or so. You can host the room since my thing is acting up.

    got your name as well...awaiting registration...

    I still don't have my items to evo rules yet...I'll try to fix em as we go a long

    Edit: gotta let you know your snake is indeed beastly....and as much as you're beating me right now this matchup doesn't really seem to be too bad...I can't get over this lag though >(...it's fucking me up horribly you cannot believe
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    As some have pointed out by others have missed, the only thing Sonic is fast at is running (and walking). His attacks are slow on startup and he's not even fast in the air (i.e., he doesn't fall fast).
    The best characters in the previous games usually didn't have too much in the reach and priority department.
    O RLY?

    The Top- and High Tiers disagree:
    Fox - Ridiculous priority
    Falco - Ridiculous priority
    Sheik - Ridiculous priority
    Marth - Ridiculous range and priority
    Peach - Ridiculous priority on select moves

    The ones directly below them either have Ridiculous range or Ridiculous Priority of both. Priority and range = Very good. Have neither = Bad. Not surprisingly, the Low Tiers consists of a lot of characters with little range and priority.
    His up b doesn't need to sweet spot edges because you can do attacks out of it. Stutter stepping increases the range of his foward smash to a distance higher than Marth's.
    1) What's preventing people from meteor smashing you on the way up? Or just aerialing you?
    2) What's to prevent everyone else from stutter stepping to get even more range than Sonic? It'd be good if it was a Sonic-specific tech. Not so much when everyone can do it.
    Yeah, uh, dont agree at all. Especially with the statement on his attacks being slow. I actually find that absurd. His only moves that really come out slow are his froward smash (but it fucking hurts) and his dair. I'd say he's at LEAST mid tier material.
    He's slow when compared to the rest. Except for a select few moves that aren't very good at KO:ing.
  • KMDKMD Lurkers Anonymous Joined: Posts: 699
    In response, because I don't like it when accurate info is used as a cock-bludgeon.

    Sonic's walking and running speed are one of the best, and the best in the game respectively. His priority is bollocks yeah, but movement speed combined with the activation speeds on his tilts and two out of three smashes make his overall move effectiveness about average, if not greater. His real problem is that he has a hard time straight killing, nor does he have the ability to airguard like Meta and characters with better air-control.

    I also think you're confusing raw speed with priority here, the Fucking Furries (Fox/Falco) only had decent priority on most of their attacks, Shine and Lasers notwithstanding. They could be played exceedingly fast with the techs given to us in Melee. Speed can give the illusion of priority(which is a nebulous thing anyway). The only character in that list that had moves that legit beat out an ungodly amount of things was Marth, and that was due to the disjoint hitbox on his sword. In Melee, ridiculous speed more or less = ridiculous priority.

    On the Up-B: A Sonic can Meteor Cancel out of the spike, if it's near ledge the upward hit of the move gives slight protection and the non-recovery move specific auto-sweetspot for a falling character does the rest. Given that, an under-stage spike would be necessary, and it's difficult for characters to do that.
    I'm here to have Eddie turn his upper body into a giant cow skull and make stupid cackling noises while sodomizing people with gigantic black drills. In HELL. Now THAT'S villainy.
    -Ben Reed
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    KMD, Fox and Falco (in Melee) vehemently disagree. Their aerials were some of the most prioritized attacks in the game.

    Falco's Dair, for instance, has so much raw priority, most people can, at best, trade hits. The only real way to go through it is with Disjointed Hitboxes. This is because parts of Falco's legs are actually invincible during the Dair. Fox's Dair has a large hitbox and a decent priority as well, but not as much as Falco's.

    Their Nairs and Bairs have a lot priority as well. Ever seen them randomly hit people with Fox and Falco not trading hits when it looks like they should? Priority. Upair as Fox (1st hit) has ridiculous priority. Falco's has less so.

    Dsmash with Falco has his legs invincible during charging. Not sure about when he's actually smashing (I don't actually play as Fox or Falco). Some of Fox's and Falco's smashes have some of the games' highest priority, like their Fsmashes and Fox's Usmash.

    In the game, very few games have actual True Priority. True Priority is what happens when two ground attacks come out at the same time. In most cases, the attacks would clank and stop. But not with True Priority attacks! They'll cancel out the other attacks (if they're too low on priority) and actually continue and hit the opponent.

    That's right, if you, for example, jab as Peach against Fox's and Falco's smashes, Peach's jab will clank and stop while their smashes still come out and hit her. This holds true for a lot of other lower-prioritized attacks vs. Fox's and Falco's smashes as well.

    Fox and Falco are priority powerhouses. The only attacks they have that have low priority are Up + B (more priority for Falco) and Over B (crap priority for both as their hitboxes are actually behind Fox and Falco, meaning you can hit them way before their hitboxes are anywhere near you).

    Peach and Sheik are priority powerhouses as well. Peach's Nair, Dashattack, jab, F-tilt, Bair, Dsmash, among other things. Pretty much all of Sheik's aerials except Dair and to an extent Uair (which has medium priority) + all of her tilts, Dsmash.

    Regarding Sonic's Up B: You cannot meteor cancel indefinitely because of how it works now. At certain %s, there'll be nothing for Sonic to do but die after getting meteor smashed, even if he meteor cancels since he won't make it back.

    And there's also the much more obvious options: A simple aerial. Either try to go for a stage-spike (unreliable) or do a Nair/Fair/Bair so that he'll fly off from the stage again and keep edgeguarding. Because his recovery is almost entirely vertical, he'll eventually be too far away to make it back.

    It's not the crappiest recovery in the game, but it's not very good, either.
  • miomio You have no dignity. Joined: Posts: 552
    Sonic is pretty low on the tier list but he'll probably start getting way higher once we have enough tournaments to align tiers according to tournament records again.
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    .....Are people forgetting about Air dodge or am I missing something here?

    Anyway I have something I'm going to post about regarding the Snake vs Sonic match up since I played it against thedamned...Mind you...We were both lagging like hell and we weren't at 100% but he still kicked my ass lol.

    First off I was right in my assumption before about the c4...Sonic doesn't give 2 shits about the c4 unless it's planted on him or snake is trying to predict exactly when he's gonna run over it. With the Side B cancel he can even fake Snake into setting it off accidentally at times. If snake wants to hit him with the C4 he's going to have to keep him over in that certain area and even then would probably have to set the c4 off at least 1 second in advance in order to catch him unless the setup is perfect. TheDamned is really good with his trapped so I did get blown up a few times..but otherwise I made a mental note of where the c4 was and went about my business.

    Snake has a pretty hard time keeping Sonic out...even with the disjointed hit boxes on his attacks. One thing that Sonic players will have to watch out for in his match is for grenades drops....if snake is holding a grenade and trying to either hold onto it or drop it to blow you and him both of....run up and grab him if you can to apply pressure and then do a back throw to toss you and him both away from the explosion. I wasn't sure if I was able to demonstrate that completely in our match because everytime I attempted..the lag spiked and screwed up my timing. Also since Snake can take more damage than Sonic if he's holding a grenade be a bit more careful on when you're deciding to attack him.'

    Sonic's forward b can hop over the proximity mines if spaced properly without fear of them blowing him up...this can be use full in those situations where there's a mine between you and snake and there's a nikita headed your way. Sonic can also forward b through a nikita so the snake player will have to drop it prematurely if they know this.

    If snake is above you on his cypher...If he's at the right distance it can be a good idea to up b and possibly surprise kill him with an up air. 2 things to keep in mind while doing that though is that Snake can let go of the cypher when he feels like it and immediately air dodge....also one of the times I actually thought I had caught TheDamned he threw out some type of an attack that traded and sent me out...I'm assuming it was probably his up air...which is why it's imperative that you space it probably. Sonic has the most priority on his up air near the end of the animation when his feet are pointed straight up. I've beaten out Mr. G and W's key several times with it..but you have to know spacing.

    Another thing to watch out for is Snake's grabbing right just out reaches sonic's...so if you thought you were close enough to grab him and you wiff..Assume that you're within his range for a grab and quickly move yourself is the snake you're fighting grab's a lot.

    Snake has a weak spot behind him since he doesn't have any attacks that cover both sides...some of his attacks may have hit boxes just barely behind his back but he doesn't have anything like Ike, or metaknight.

    That's all I have to present right now I believe......
  • miomio You have no dignity. Joined: Posts: 552
    Snake's bair has tons of range behind him!
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Snake's bair has tons of range behind him!

    It also has lots of lag....when I'm talking about attacks that cover behind him I mean in reference to him being grounded..so I apologize if i wasn't clear...
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,781 mod
    It also has lots of lag....when I'm talking about attacks that cover behind him I mean in reference to him being grounded..so I apologize if i wasn't clear...

    Speaking of bair, it's actually what I hit you with both of times we traded and then you ended up dying off screen.

    Thing about Bair isn't that it has lots of range behind him (it has a bit), but that his whole body is a hitbox. Your Uair would have beaten my attack (and maybe killed me) if it wasn't for the nutty fact that Snake's elbow (and face, apparently) can hit people for full power with that attack.

    This reminds me, I have to find a new Gamecube controller today, since half of the times I Up-Tilted you, even if it worked, I wasn't really trying to.

    Good analysis by the way, though I would want to point that you have to also watch out for short hop Nikita fakes since they also have killing power and they're really easy to run into, especially with someone as speedy as Sonic.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Speaking of bair, it's actually what I hit you with both of times we traded and then you ended up dying off screen.

    Thing about Bair isn't that it has lots of range behind him (it has a bit), but that his whole body is a hitbox. Your Uair would have beaten my attack (and maybe killed me) if it wasn't for the nutty fact that Snake's elbow (and face, apparently) can hit people for full power with that attack.

    This reminds me, I have to find a new Gamecube controller today, since half of the times I Up-Tilted you, even if it worked, I wasn't really trying to.

    Good analysis by the way, though I would want to point that you have to also watch out for short hop Nikita fakes since they also have killing power and they're really easy to run into, especially with someone as speedy as Sonic.

    so...wait...when I up b'ed after you when you were riding the cypher...that was actually your back air that socked me? lol...I was assuming it was the up air since i went straight up and out.

    Yeah I already dknow about sonic running into stuff...that's what most of the Ike vs. sonic fight is about from what I can tell is Ike just swinging the sword around and hoping that Sonic is unlucky enough to run into one of the swings...besides beating him to death with A,A,A.

    Everything that I've said in my analysis of the matchup though is based on how we were both reacting to certain situations and handling them....with the lag beating us up and killing us. Lag like the one we had was killer for me because I couldn't do any reaction setups properly as half the time whenever I attempted we were stuck in a brief pause that either stopped it or didn't come out at all. I'm hoping we can get another rematch at some point with lag not being such a factor because i'm interested in this matchup. I also would like to say your snake is as dangerous as everyone's been saying it is lol.
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Augh..............Wolf.....where do I begin on this match up?

    I guess I'll start off by saying in terms of difficulty in handling him...he's up there with Metaknight. The difference in this being that he actually has a projectile that beats out just about everything sonic does. He can't even forward b through any of them. At least with Metaknight he has to get at least somewhat close to you but trying to get in on Wolf so far from my experience has been a pain in the ass. The only thing I've been able to come up with is perfect shielding the shots and using sonic's speed to get in afterwords...from there it becomes a guessing game as you have to decide after perfect shielding it whether wolf is going to do a forward smash on your run in or try to block and try to react to what you're doing. Don't even think about having an air to air confrontation with wolf....especially if he's facing you. His claws WILL beat you out.

    I'm feeling a bit drowsy at the moment so I need to get some sleep...I think there's stuff I'm forgetting about in this match up so I'll try to remember when I make another post. I say this to the other sonic users in here...try this match up with someone and tell me what you think about it...but from my experience at the moment it's as bad as fighting metaknight, and possibly more frustrating since the laser spam limits sonic from doing the thing he loves most...:(
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    I don't remember having too much problem with this, but then again I've figured out the fighting style most Wolf players use so well that I can manipulate them into doing what I want them to do.

    oh btw, I got a chance to do the Meta Knight one too. I actually almost won it.. and would've won it if the last attack connected. He was actually pretty good, and I didn't feel disadvantaged either. in fact, the only matchup I can recall clearly feeling disadvantaged in is vs Ice Climbers
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    I don't remember having too much problem with this, but then again I've figured out the fighting style most Wolf players use so well that I can manipulate them into doing what I want them to do.

    oh btw, I got a chance to do the Meta Knight one too. I actually almost won it.. and would've won it if the last attack connected. He was actually pretty good, and I didn't feel disadvantaged either. in fact, the only matchup I can recall clearly feeling disadvantaged in is vs Ice Climbers

    Did the wolf player spam lasers at you 75 -80% of the match? and did Metaknight spam tornado 80% of the time?
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,305
    Did the wolf player spam lasers at you 75 -80% of the match? and did Metaknight spam tornado 80% of the time?

    If no, they didn't know what they were doing, lol.
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • ZoogstinZoogstin Joined: Posts: 1,021
    ^truth
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Ok during the course of me playing against rioting soul's Ike I've come across another mixup option that sonic has. It's nothing big but it adds a tad bit more to what he can do and it's a branch off of his forward b cancel. Since when you cancel the forward b you go into shield if you immediately tap forward after shielding you do a roll. You can do it so fast and seemless that when you're running in that it makes it look like Sonic is actually doing his roll attack almost towards the opponent since he is in a ball animation when he rolls...but he's not. If spaced properly this can be used as another fake out technique and get around to the opponents back as they're attempting to block and/or attack the fake roll attack. Plus if you do it correctly you get the buzzsaw noise to add to the fake. Try it out for yourself and tell me what you think! I'm still trying to get the timing down for it myself but it seems pretty useful.
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    Did the wolf player spam lasers at you 75 -80% of the match? and did Metaknight spam tornado 80% of the time?
    every Wolf I've ever played does that. Meta Knights I've played used tornado a lot, but not extremely often. I think one of them was Somns or whatever
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Ok more insight from me in terms of the Metaknight vs. Sonic match up...

    After having to deal with Zoolander's spamming of the tornado...I've realized that while that may be one of his greatest tools to use against sonic...it could also at times be his undoing. Most characters get ONE free Tornado block...If you have a full shield and Metaknight starts that shit up right in your grill and you don't have time to do anything...You can just block it entirely. After blocking it YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO PUNISH IT IN SOME WAY. I can't really stress that enough because if he starts up another tornado you're not gonna have enough block to deal with it and it'll just eat right through it. If I can go for the throw with sonic I'll try to take that but if Mk is trying to get away from me so I don't punish it...I'll just take any type of damage on that bastard that I can...be it a dash attack or what have it.

    If Mk is spaming down tilt and you have enough space...fake a forward b and see what his reaction is...He might be trying to bait you into trying to jump over it so he can up smash you but if he seems to be just doing that for shits and giggles...ball right over the blade and smash his ass.

    Mk can kill sonic at a ridiculous percentage if you let him...Watch out for this set up..Down throw, jump, forward air followed by an up b. That combo will own him horribly. Ways I've gotten out of it include DIing away from the stage and away from him. It'll cause him to chase you and get him out of his comfort zone and may force him to retreat back to the stage. Another way is just air dodging the forward air and trying to get past him....If you've already been hit by the forward air and MK is below you..you better be slaming on up b or hope that a dodge is out. Sonic can usually make it back onto the stage just so long as he hasn't been socked by an Up B.

    If you notice that when you're near metaknight and He's spamming down smash...don't even try to challenge him on it by running in or trying to roll behind him while he's doing it....usually eventually he'll stop when you're just staring at him and he'll try to do something really quick...like a throw if he believes your close enough. I haven't developed a clear cut strategy for that but so far I've been trying to work running forward b fake out to make sonic stop just outside the distance of his forward smash and his down smash. If MK does anything on the ground that's standing besides his A spam or any of his specials...try to nail him with a stutter step forward smash. That seems to work well against down smash spam as well if you fake out just outside of the distance since you're not rolling behind him and the first hit wiffs you.

    There was a period when forward b canceled out MK's tornado in one of our matches...dunno how it happened...as most of the time the tornado completely beats it out...this was the first time I saw them clash.

    Sonic still has a hard ass time with this match up...and its WAAAYY..uphill for him. He has to RUN his ass off for the most part and take the match VERY slow.

    Info in terms of Falco vs. Sonic

    Don't let that Italian Boid chain throw you...If you start to see him doing that, Give him a spring for his troubles.

    Falco players like to use his aaa combos and then throw his reflector. If you're getting hit...get out of the sea of wings and block. If he throws the reflector IMMEDIATELY..punish him with a grab...I'm pretty sure Sonic can guard against it at max range and punish his ass with a throw...preferably a down throw so you can do mix up and keep falco off balance.

    Generic Sonic Stuff

    That new fake out thing I thought of actually works quite decently...the problem with it is that if you don't execute it properly you can accidentally do something you don't want...like a homing attack.


    I'm hoping I'm not missing anything...I've been getting a lot of Ike experience fighting Rioting Soul's Ike...fake outs work VERY WELL in that match up since Ike for the most part has to fully commit to a lot of things he has to do in order to stop sonic's bullshit....still a tough match but with the stuff that's been found out now I think it's a bit more managable.
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    smash boards seems to be slightly behind this thread in terms of knowing things about the blue hedgehog...but they do know something that I found to be interesting while shifting the the bs in the sonic forum over there. Apparently Sonic can cancel the landing of his aerial down b roll into a shield when he hits the ground, it doesn't work with side b.

    Pros and cons

    Pro
    More mix up!!! You can change the angle of it a tad as he's coming down to the ground so that you land in front of the person and can be used for a shield grab. You can also do a seamless(when I say seamless I mean you don't see the shield) roll to the left and right if done quick enough or a spot dodge. It can also be used as another way of approaching

    Cons
    uh....the way you're faced...when you start the charge that is the direction your going..no if ands or buts. So if you see Ike Charging up that forward smash when he saw you charge up in the air...you better pray that you hit the ground before that sword slams down on you.

    Definitely has some potential...I was messing with it in practice mode...problem is that it's hard to control....but then again that didn't stop me before eh?
  • El NinjaEl Ninja President of Spaceballs Joined: Posts: 31
    Still tilting at windmills, huh Brandon?
    Ron Perry keep makin' it hot.

    Ron Perry keep makin' it hot!
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Still tilting at windmills, huh Brandon?

    .....I'm sorry I don't quite get your reference...
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Don Quixote?
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Don Quixote?

    I figured it had something to do with Quixote...but the whole 'tilting' thing sorta threw me off...I suppose I could be but again I don't really care ^^.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Now I know why Sonic gives me a bad feeling.

    HIS SECRET FINALLY REVEALED.
  • Zan-kunZan-kun Joined: Posts: 293
    lol good shit

    Anything new on the Sonic gameplay front? Anybody?
    Aka Malajax on GGPO and elsewhere.
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    lol good shit

    Anything new on the Sonic gameplay front? Anybody?

    Well I did a bunch a few more brawls with The Damned's snake and ended up figuring out something pretty useful.

    Snake vs. Sonic matchup info update

    I'm not sure if I mentioned it last time but sonic can actually easily detonate Snake's proximity mines. Damned was giving me the business in when he was trying his best to keep me out...one of the things that can really hinder sonic getting inside was the proximity mine if He set it correctly. However Sonic can get rid of it by simply running forward and canceling his run into a shield. It works pretty well considering Sonic slides forward a bit because of his momentum. Of course I wouldn't recommend doing it if your shield is already low but then again..this is sonic we're talking about. He can run away for a good while to wait for his shield to recharge before jumping back into the fray.

    I really don't feel that there's a big advantage or disadvantage in this matchup either. Dispite the fact that Snake had disjointed hit boxes it still seems Snake had a hard time keeping the hedgehog off of him. That's including grenades, c4, etc all being used.

    Homing Attack info

    There was a sonic tutorial vid that someone posted in the irc chatroom...the first few minutes or so on it was bleh but then it actually gave some useful info especially on the homing attack that I wasn't fully aware of. I'll try to see if I can find that vid again because I don't remember who posted it. Apparently Sonic's homing attack radius is actually an Ellipse with the furthest distance being to the right and left of him. He also tends to strike for his opponents back. The vid did a pretty good demonstration on this and it could probably explain the properties of it better than I could so more on that later.

    Ledge grabbing trick

    When you're holding onto the ledge do a forward b in the opposite direction of the ledge but immediately jump out of it. You should be facing the other way and it will allow you to come back up onto the stage with a back air. I still haven't mastered that yet and it was featured in the video as well.

    I think that's all for now...
  • ZoogstinZoogstin Joined: Posts: 1,021
    Yeah I posted it. Here it is. This should probably be on the first page.

  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Yeah I posted it. Here it is. This should probably be on the first page.


    the topic creator doesn't even really have anything on the front page since this thread didn't start out to be the 'sonic thread'.....Thanks for putting up the link Zoogstin
  • skisonicskisonic Joined: Posts: 1,131 mod
    Well I did a bunch a few more brawls with The Damned's snake and ended up figuring out something pretty useful.

    Snake vs. Sonic matchup info update

    I'm not sure if I mentioned it last time but sonic can actually easily detonate Snake's proximity mines. ... Sonic can get rid of it by simply running forward and canceling his run into a shield.

    I always jump over top and use a spring. Snake cant do anything to you about it as long as you position yourself correctly to either Dair back down or DI advantageously.
    Internationally known. East coast home.

    I bet some people thank god for the internet and the keyboard everynight when they pray. "NOW I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT!" - big|dave
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    That video had actually inspired me to start trying to use a lot of Sonic's bells and whistles. The timing on some of that stuff is insane, but it's so rewarding when you finally pull off a cancelling homing attack meteor smash.

    Instant-edgeguard is very nice too and it can be done with anyone, not just Sonic ^_^.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • Zan-kunZan-kun Joined: Posts: 293
    Yeah I posted it. Here it is. This should probably be on the first page.


    That vid makes me wanna up my Sonic game. That shit was banannas!
    Aka Malajax on GGPO and elsewhere.
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,931
    Instant-edgeguard is very nice too and it can be done with anyone, not just Sonic ^_^.

    This is true but sonic has such ridiculous run speed that it works really well for him
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,781 mod
    Yeah I posted it. Here it is. This should probably be on the first page.


    Very nice.

    This is actually what I was going to remind myself to PM you about, Sonichuman. I sort of want to more properly learn Sonic, especially since I still don't have a main, but this video kind of gets most things out of the way.

    Sorry about being such a lazy ass and not replying, but work and other forums have been taking up my attention.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • ReiGunReiGun aka Mr. Asstastic Joined: Posts: 217
    some info was useful..but still..if only there was a way to counter an ike and metaknight...*sigh*

    Maybe I can help you out a little. Here is Ike's entry in Sonic's swf match up guide.

    Ike:

    What to do:
    - Punish him after any whiffed attack
    - Use your speed and he shouldn't hurt you as much, he's pretty slow.
    - Gimp him, his recovery sucks. Don't be shy about spring spiking him either.
    - Mix it up with your grabs, this helps against his counter and super armor as well.

    Do not (The bad):
    - If your predictable or get cornered , SONIC WILL GET PWNED!!!
    - Be careful of his faster attacks (Nair, AAA combo, Ftilt, Utilt & Bair).
    - Be mindful, they will approach with Fairs. They will also camp with this too while you are approaching with any spin dashes.
    - Power moves will FAIL against Ike, use speed tactics instead.
    - ummmmm... range.
    - They will RAR their Bair as a approach tactic.


    Personally, I've never had much of a problem with Ike. The main thing I do never stop moving. Sonic's speed can throw Ike off balance pretty well. As for Metaknight, yeah, that shit's painful. The biggest tip I can give you is to stay unpredictable. I wish I could help more, but I havent fought too many Metaknights.


    About the vid: I've seen that guide a few times, but I havent been able to try anything in till recently (wii repairs and all *sigh*). Really the homing attack section alone helped sooo much. Using the HA to gimp and kill makes me feel all warm and tingly.
    "To a thing like me, a thing like you is....Well, imagine if a bacteria sat down next to you and started getting snarky." - Death from Supernatural.
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