Wolfkiller, post: 2123337 wrote:
Tips on how to avoid the double rape from Landmasters please!
Keits, post: 2123338 wrote:
This depends a LOT on the stage and your character. On stages like FD with a slow character, all you can really do is learn to live long enough that landmaster goes away before you drop off the respawn platform to avoid being 2 stocked.
Who do you play as? What stages are you having issue on?
Septimus Prime, post: 2123318 wrote:
The dragoon does 42% damage. I learned this because I got hit by it tonight and didn't die because I hit a couple of walls. I don't remember what stage I was playing on, though. I think it was Shadow Moses. I was playing Snake, at 0%, and I got hit.
Anyway, the dragoon, as it turns out, is not necessarily an instant-KO.
Next, I "plan" to somehow survive Marth's FS one day, since I'm just that "lucky," I guess.
EDIT: Oh, and I found something new with the fan, too.
Apparently, in Mushroomy Kingdom, certain characters (like Zamus) can stand on the right side of a pipe and swing leftward, locking down their opponent on the left side of the pipe to be scrolled off the screen. It works from the opposite side too, but you'll die. I'd like to thank Shade for "helping" me discover this and the dragoon thing.
EDIT 2: If Snake gets hit in mid-air while holding a grenade, he'll drop the grenade straight down, assuming his opponent doesn't touch the grenade. This is the only way for him to air drop a grenade, and he can't air dodge if he has a grenade out in mid-air.
Also, if Snake fires a Nikita missile in mid-air, he won't be able to drop it until he touches the ground. If you hit him, he loses control of it as usual. And, if the missile has a nearly vertical trajectory, it will come down later, after 15 sec or so.
If Snake primes a grenade while holding an item, he will drop whatever item he's holding.
xS A M U R A Ix, post: 2123355 wrote:
Any tips on avoiding snake's final smash?
Also have you guys noticed the smash ball sometimes avoids one player and heads towards another one? I wonder if when you're losing, a smashball has a tendency to move towards you more?
The Damned, post: 2123357 wrote:
Smash Ball seems erratic as hell, but there has to be some method to its madness.
Finally, the smashball is unique in its "random" hovering, which I discovered isn't random at all. The SB will spawn on random sides (as far as I can tell), but nearly immediately after spawning will hover around the loser for a bit almost every time before moving away.
I know it's true between Human and CPU players. CPU opponents will always be able to knock things out of you very quickly with even 1/2 soft hits. However, you can juggle the CPU across the stage and back and they'll hold onto it for dear life. (The scenario I'm using assumes the Human and CPU players are tied.) I've seen people on gamefaqs continually complain about this. I've also had plenty of experience with this first hard.
So if Sakurai implemented this between CPU and Human players, I don't anything preventing him from applying the same thing to winning vs. losing players. Especially since I've slowly begun to notice the trend as of late.
Ok, I just ran a few tests about Dragoon pieces and how they fall out. I went to Final Destination with Player 1 and Player 2 as Mario. I set the only item to Dragoon pieces on high. I had player 2 suicide right away (thus P2 is losing by the game standards). I waited for the 3 Dragoon pieces to spawn. I had P1 pick up 2 of the Dragoon pieces. P2 went over to P1 and did 1 jab. Nothing. Then I performed a second jab (just the first jab again, not the jab combo). This knocked out a Dragoon piece. A third single jab knocked out another Dragoon piece. Then I had P2 (who is still losing by a stock at this point with 0% while P1 is at sub-10%) pick up 2 Dragoon pieces. I had P1 do single jabs on P2, however this yielded NOTHING. I did this to 30%. At which point I decided to try a forward smash, still nothing. Then I did another forward smash. Still nothing. Then I did some more jabs. Nothing. Then I performed an up smash, still nothing. Needless to say, I got P2 to 150%+ and was not able to knock out the dragoon pieces.
I then repeated this experiment 2 more times. Neither time was P1 able to knock the dragoon pieces out of P2. However, P2 was always able to knock BOTH dragoon pieces out of P1 with single jabs. In one of the trials both dragoon pieces fell out with 1 jab.
Oh don't worry. It isn't just the dragoon pieces, it's the smash balls as well. I just ran a few tests with them, and was essentially faced with nearly identical results. The most it took in any trial for the losing player to knock the smash ball out of the winning player was 20% from jabs. I was unable to knock the smash ball from the losing player as the winning player, even when using various smash attacks after building damage while they held the smash ball for dear life.
Items are biased. At least in the case of these 2 in particular.
lamewadd, post: 2123360 wrote:
I doubt they have the exact same tendencies and idiosyncracies present in human vs CPU and human vs human play. But who knows?
SamuraiPanda001, post: 2123361 wrote:
And sorry Samurai, I honestly don't really care to test the stuff any more. I'm pretty much done with this whole thing. And honestly, if we somehow find out that items spawn closer to the loser or something, then we'd probably be faced with the 'theorycraft' of "Well then, you have to just be on top of the losing player." Somehow pro-item users 'theorycraft' automatically negates all anti-item users 'theorycraft' so I've given up trying to win an argument that was already lost before it began.
Well, due to a request earlier, I did a bunch of tests (you should thank me for these as they are incredibly time consuming, moreso than one would think) concerning dropping items. Well, it's not just smash balls and dragoon parts that drop out of you based on who's winning. It's any item that you can drop.
Basically, take my tests from, before 2 Marios, Final Destination, and a single type of item. I put 1 Mario in the losing position and let them both grab the item (such as a ray gun). Then have the Marios jab each other until they drop their items. Losing players can make winning players drop their items before winning players can make losing players drop their items. However, it is not as blatantly obvious as with the smash balls and dragoon. It's actually based on the power of the item.
Let me explain, the game thinks of Dragoon parts and Smashballs as really powerful and easily game-changing. Thus, it will make it very easy for a losing player to knock it out of a winning player and make it very hard for a winning player to knock it out of a losing player in hopes of evening things out.
However, the game doesn't really think of Fans and Fireflowers as a big of deal in that concern. So the amount of damage needed to knock the item out of the other player seems pretty equal. That is, until you make the advantage one player has over the other huge. Then it becomes obvious, the losing player simply won't drop their item when they are losing by a huge margin (a margin that will never be reached using our rules).
So it really doesn't matter, it won't effect things much since the most advantage we'll ever see is a 2 stock lead and that isn't enough for this to come into play for all items except Dragoon parts and Smash Balls.
However, the bias is still there. Items have been intended to favour the losing player. Which is dumb, but it's really only a big problem for Dragoon Parts and Smash Balls, I don't see it having any effect concerning the remaining items you can drop (that is unless we want to convert to 99 stock).
A side note: A little interesting fact is that you can group character specific items (such as Peach's turnips) into the Smash Ball and Dragoon Parts category concerning how easy it is for losing players to knock them out of winning players and vice versa.
SamuraiPanda001, post: 2123364 wrote:
Xiivi is at it again. I'm surprised ya'll haven't jumped at the opportunity and started doing tests yourselves yet. But anyways, here's Xiivi's newest stuff:
masher, post: 2123367 wrote:
Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?
Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?