Item Knowledge Database

13

Comments

  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    Hello!

    I'll elaborate on some details I've noticed for Jiggly's final smash;

    On small stages it is positively devastating. For example, she can fly underneath Final Destination/Battlefield, activate her final smash and it becomes incredibly difficult to dodge. It is possible to dodge (especially for characters with a lot of air control), but for certain characters like Ike it can be insanely difficult.

    The invincibility from clinging onto the ledge (when your flashing) prevents her from pushing you and also makes you immune to her smash effect when she 'pops'. So skillful use of vertical recovers and the ledge can feasibly lead you to dodge it even if she's right above you.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • COUMCOUM COUM Joined: Posts: 442
    Seeing as this thread was locked, I guess this is the place to discuss it...

    I'd be interested in how the observations Wobbles made change on different stages. Is the distribution of item spawn points roughly the same on all stages, or do some have a a higher concentration of spawn points in certain areas? That could affect stage controlling strategies pretty significantly.
  • SampleSample STAIRSTAIRSTAIRS Joined: Posts: 66
    I know that in Melee, items would always spawn at the same spots. It was most notable on Temple.

    Brawl might follow the same pattern.
  • WobblesWobbles I beat Ken once. Joined: Posts: 28
    I would totally test that out, Sample, if I hadn't given my copy of Brawl to my brother. From my other stuff it seemed that there were no set spawn points, at least on FD. Either that, or the number of spawn points were so high that there's no point learning them.

    More important is the spawn timer... for Medium, which is the EVO set, items spawn every 8-14 seconds. Two tests of 4 minute matches showed that they NEVER took longer than 14 seconds and NEVER came faster than 8 seconds apart. I'm guessing with a bit of practice you can get a feel for when items *should* drop.
    http://eskimosister.blogspot.com

    My blog about Melee, ICs, and competition in general.
  • COUMCOUM COUM Joined: Posts: 442
    someone in that smashboards thread thinks they've discovered that items are more likely to spawn at the spawn points close to the players, but i cant understand his research at all so i'll leave it to someone else to explain it
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,778 mod
    Not that this is an interesting tidbit compared to the above, but since Final Smashes were being talked about before this and I'm liking to forget....

    During the online tournament, I found that Snake will apparently exit the bottom of the screen instead of the top of the screen to initiate his Final Smash if he is closer to the bottom. He'll still return from the top of the screen, though (thankfully).

    Outside of that, I'm sure there's something I was going to mention last time that I've now forgotten. Hmmm....
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,305
    Any tips on avoiding snake's final smash?

    Also have you guys noticed the smash ball sometimes avoids one player and heads towards another one? I wonder if when you're losing, a smashball has a tendency to move towards you more?
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • ZoogstinZoogstin Joined: Posts: 1,021
    Honestly I doubt that.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,778 mod
    Any tips on avoiding snake's final smash?

    I don't play again Snake (or at least, the few times I play against Snake, the items are never on), so I'd have to say from my own experience that the best way to avoid Snake's final smash is to be reactive.

    Just wait until he fires. Seriously.

    Even if you have a really fast character, you'll likely to get hit once if you run around like a manic and get hit once allows him to juggle you with at least one more hit, which may kill you depending on how high the ceiling of the stage is.

    Spot dodging doesn't work and rolling is almost as bad. Holding on to the ledge can only save you so much as well. So either try to stay in the air the entire time (which is impossible) or just wait for him to fire and then get the hell out of dodge.

    Easier said then done, but I'm sure the people that play with items on could figure out the best ways to react with their characters.

    For instance, if I was still playing Luigi (GODDAMN TRACTION ISSUES!!! but I digress), I'd probably just react via Tornado on the ground since that has the greatest land speed.

    Stuff like that.
    Also have you guys noticed the smash ball sometimes avoids one player and heads towards another one? I wonder if when you're losing, a smashball has a tendency to move towards you more?

    I really haven't noticed that, though it wouldn't surprise me.

    Smash Ball seems erratic as hell, but there has to be some method to its madness.


    Anyway, I think the other thing that I was thinking was to not throw Bumpers if it will hit another solid item like a Freeze or a Mr. Saturn, but that seems kind of obvious....
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    Smash Ball seems erratic as hell, but there has to be some method to its madness.

    We're doing some item research on SWF, and this is what I personally found:
    Finally, the smashball is unique in its "random" hovering, which I discovered isn't random at all. The SB will spawn on random sides (as far as I can tell), but nearly immediately after spawning will hover around the loser for a bit almost every time before moving away.

    I haven't really tested it further than that, so I'm not positive that is true. Just use 2 marios on either side of FD, with one of the marios losing, and observe the results. I had bananas, starman, and the smashball on during that initial test.

    Also, a user by the name of Xiivi found this:
    I know it's true between Human and CPU players. CPU opponents will always be able to knock things out of you very quickly with even 1/2 soft hits. However, you can juggle the CPU across the stage and back and they'll hold onto it for dear life. (The scenario I'm using assumes the Human and CPU players are tied.) I've seen people on gamefaqs continually complain about this. I've also had plenty of experience with this first hard.

    So if Sakurai implemented this between CPU and Human players, I don't anything preventing him from applying the same thing to winning vs. losing players. Especially since I've slowly begun to notice the trend as of late.
    Ok, I just ran a few tests about Dragoon pieces and how they fall out. I went to Final Destination with Player 1 and Player 2 as Mario. I set the only item to Dragoon pieces on high. I had player 2 suicide right away (thus P2 is losing by the game standards). I waited for the 3 Dragoon pieces to spawn. I had P1 pick up 2 of the Dragoon pieces. P2 went over to P1 and did 1 jab. Nothing. Then I performed a second jab (just the first jab again, not the jab combo). This knocked out a Dragoon piece. A third single jab knocked out another Dragoon piece. Then I had P2 (who is still losing by a stock at this point with 0% while P1 is at sub-10%) pick up 2 Dragoon pieces. I had P1 do single jabs on P2, however this yielded NOTHING. I did this to 30%. At which point I decided to try a forward smash, still nothing. Then I did another forward smash. Still nothing. Then I did some more jabs. Nothing. Then I performed an up smash, still nothing. Needless to say, I got P2 to 150%+ and was not able to knock out the dragoon pieces.

    I then repeated this experiment 2 more times. Neither time was P1 able to knock the dragoon pieces out of P2. However, P2 was always able to knock BOTH dragoon pieces out of P1 with single jabs. In one of the trials both dragoon pieces fell out with 1 jab.
    Oh don't worry. It isn't just the dragoon pieces, it's the smash balls as well. I just ran a few tests with them, and was essentially faced with nearly identical results. The most it took in any trial for the losing player to knock the smash ball out of the winning player was 20% from jabs. I was unable to knock the smash ball from the losing player as the winning player, even when using various smash attacks after building damage while they held the smash ball for dear life.

    Items are biased. At least in the case of these 2 in particular.
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,305
    Wow good shit Panda, I've noticed that about "equipped" smashballs, dragoon pieces, and holding items. I'll get hit with something light as hell and lose my item, but they just have to touch me and mine drops. I was always like DAMN YOU SAKURAI WHAT IS THIS RANDOMNESS? But I guess it's not random then.

    Also for the smashball hovering to a losing player, I kind of expected that. Can you test and see if it avoids the winning player more then the losing one? Like last night in a match I was trying to get one that was above me, I jumped up and it moved up a proportional amount. I repeated to jump and have it do the same thing many times, and eventually ran out of jumps and had to fall back down, and then it IMMEDIATELY moved down to ground level next to the losing player right in front of him and made no attempt to dodge his attack.

    That's kind of messed up.

    The Damned: How about in lag though? You can't really react in time to avoid the shots. >_<
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I doubt they have the exact same tendencies and idiosyncracies present in human vs CPU and human vs human play. But who knows?
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    I doubt they have the exact same tendencies and idiosyncracies present in human vs CPU and human vs human play. But who knows?

    If you reread the post, he actually said it was human vs human that he ran the tests on.

    And sorry Samurai, I honestly don't really care to test the stuff any more. I'm pretty much done with this whole thing. And honestly, if we somehow find out that items spawn closer to the loser or something, then we'd probably be faced with the 'theorycraft' of "Well then, you have to just be on top of the losing player." Somehow pro-item users 'theorycraft' automatically negates all anti-item users 'theorycraft' so I've given up trying to win an argument that was already lost before it began.
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,305
    And sorry Samurai, I honestly don't really care to test the stuff any more. I'm pretty much done with this whole thing. And honestly, if we somehow find out that items spawn closer to the loser or something, then we'd probably be faced with the 'theorycraft' of "Well then, you have to just be on top of the losing player." Somehow pro-item users 'theorycraft' automatically negates all anti-item users 'theorycraft' so I've given up trying to win an argument that was already lost before it began.

    Yeah I noticed that too. I don't think there's any hope in those arguments, lol.
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • subt-Lsubt-L Cold Blooded Joined: Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    eh, this really isn't the thread for "guessing" so lets not go "theorycraft" on anyone.

    this is a knowledge database. its supposed to be about facts and tactics. not about someone testing something twice and proclaiming it truth. its not about arguing if items are shitty or not, its more if what you are saying is true.

    so, no items bashing in the items knowledge data base.

    it'd be like going on wikipedia and putting in stupid shit on the page of some actor you hate.
    O_o
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    Xiivi is at it again. I'm surprised ya'll haven't jumped at the opportunity and started doing tests yourselves yet. But anyways, here's Xiivi's newest stuff:
    Well, due to a request earlier, I did a bunch of tests (you should thank me for these as they are incredibly time consuming, moreso than one would think) concerning dropping items. Well, it's not just smash balls and dragoon parts that drop out of you based on who's winning. It's any item that you can drop.

    Basically, take my tests from, before 2 Marios, Final Destination, and a single type of item. I put 1 Mario in the losing position and let them both grab the item (such as a ray gun). Then have the Marios jab each other until they drop their items. Losing players can make winning players drop their items before winning players can make losing players drop their items. However, it is not as blatantly obvious as with the smash balls and dragoon. It's actually based on the power of the item.

    Let me explain, the game thinks of Dragoon parts and Smashballs as really powerful and easily game-changing. Thus, it will make it very easy for a losing player to knock it out of a winning player and make it very hard for a winning player to knock it out of a losing player in hopes of evening things out.

    However, the game doesn't really think of Fans and Fireflowers as a big of deal in that concern. So the amount of damage needed to knock the item out of the other player seems pretty equal. That is, until you make the advantage one player has over the other huge. Then it becomes obvious, the losing player simply won't drop their item when they are losing by a huge margin (a margin that will never be reached using our rules).

    So it really doesn't matter, it won't effect things much since the most advantage we'll ever see is a 2 stock lead and that isn't enough for this to come into play for all items except Dragoon parts and Smash Balls.

    However, the bias is still there. Items have been intended to favour the losing player. Which is dumb, but it's really only a big problem for Dragoon Parts and Smash Balls, I don't see it having any effect concerning the remaining items you can drop (that is unless we want to convert to 99 stock).
    A side note: A little interesting fact is that you can group character specific items (such as Peach's turnips) into the Smash Ball and Dragoon Parts category concerning how easy it is for losing players to knock them out of winning players and vice versa.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Didn't we already know that?

    I knew it.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    The mere ***posibility*** of rubberbanding built into the 'randomness' was one of the key reasons to play 2 STOCK matches in 3 out of 5 sets.
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • mashermasher Chun's booty itches Joined: Posts: 348
    Xiivi is at it again. I'm surprised ya'll haven't jumped at the opportunity and started doing tests yourselves yet. But anyways, here's Xiivi's newest stuff:

    Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?

    Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?:razz:
    Oct 17 2007 mark yo calender
    SF4 is coming!!!

    http://www.360elite4free.com/index.php?ref=4173787
    paying $15 for your referral
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?

    Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?:razz:
    obviously you've never played anyone like Ciernian (sp?). If you're gonna use it in "3 secs" your opponent could just count "3 secs" and then do said avoidance tactic
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • subt-Lsubt-L Cold Blooded Joined: Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?

    Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?:razz:
    well, for all the one hit fs'es (link, marth, zelda) it allows a person who is down in the game the confidence to try to combo into thier fs without worry of it being knocked out.

    my question is if someone is if player 1 is down 1 stock to 2 stock, and he gains the fs, k.o's the other person, if player 2 attacks player 1, will he be able to knock it out?

    i'd test it myself, but i've been moving all month.
    O_o
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?

    Yes, we know the dragoon is banned, asshole. We were doing some research on items in general, and I can tell you really appreciate other people going through the effort.
    Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?:razz:

    I would completely debunk your argument, but that doesn't matter anymore. Someone can just come over and say "lol quit it with the theory fighter" and suddenly I'm proven wrong. I can bring video evidence that will completely debunk everything argued against it. Then people will counter it with "they totally didn't know what they are doing, they shulda dun X then Y and they totally woulda won", and if I argue against that then people say "lol quit it with the theory fighter." Hell, I can give you videos from EVO tournaments, like the amazing one in 2k7 where Wong came back with just his Cyclops. I could say, "His opponent should've done X and Y and he would've beat Wong." But what the hell does that change? Those are top level players, right? What-if arguments are bullshit, yet when a pro-item player comes in to say it, they are automatically the ones who are right. And the best part about this is? The pro-item players whom everyone automatically agrees with despite the hypocrisy or idiocy of the arguments are NOT the top level players. The top level players are the ones who are anti-item and are brushed aside by everyone else. The Justin Wongs of the Smash world all weighed in on the subject, and were anti-item. Does that matter? Apparently not.

    And thats it. Thats my last post on SRK debating items. I'm not going to deal with it anymore. But I'm smart enough to not assume every SRK user is as pretentious as you are, so I will continue to share the knowledge and research that we gain with you guys. But as soon as I see you guys don't give a shit anymore, then I'll stop sharing. Because I don't have to. I'm just doing this because I can, and I feel that if you're going to use items and research them then you might as well be thorough about it. I'm just glad there are a few SRK users (seriously like 3) that have a head on their shoulders.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    This is not an items debate thread. Its for facts about items. So, putting researched stuff here is the right thing to do. NO items are banned in all-brawl, and Rank 4 brawl (the one we SHOULD be playing) has everything except heart/start/tomato/curry. All information is welcome in this thread.

    The fact that someone can say that a different course of action would have yielded different results simply shows the depth of items play. What you need to realize, Panda, is that SRK and SWF have different criteria for what warrants a ban and what constitutes as competitive. Items-On works. Trying to debate that is does not is a lost cause, and the sooner you can get your group to realize that they are arguing simply over a preference, the sooner they will stop jumping feet first into the stereotype they have had to deal with all these years from us.

    I feel like I must note, though, that Smash has no 'justin wongs'. Justin is Justin because he is great at every fighting game, not just one.
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • mashermasher Chun's booty itches Joined: Posts: 348
    obviously you've never played anyone like Ciernian (sp?). If you're gonna use it in "3 secs" your opponent could just count "3 secs" and then do said avoidance tactic

    like what? I use G&W,you can run but you can't hide!:tup:Tentacles all in up dat mouth,ass,and pussy!:tup:

    And thats it. Thats my last post on SRK
    thank god!:pray:
    Oct 17 2007 mark yo calender
    SF4 is coming!!!

    http://www.360elite4free.com/index.php?ref=4173787
    paying $15 for your referral
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    What you need to realize, Panda, is that SRK and SWF have different criteria for what warrants a ban and what constitutes as competitive. Items-On works. Trying to debate that is does not is a lost cause, and the sooner you can get your group to realize that they are arguing simply over a preference, the sooner they will stop jumping feet first into the stereotype they have had to deal with all these years from us.

    a) We aren't banning the items. Its a setting in the game. Why is EVO using stock instead of time? Time is the default, and time has plenty of depth, so why don't you use time? Oh wait, because you PREFER stock. Just like how we PREFER no items. Which leads to the next point,

    b) Realizing its a preference goes both ways, Keits. Only very, very few people on either side of the argument actually realize its a preference issue. I KNOW this is a preference on my part. A preference that determines whether or not I go to EVO (which I would love to do), which is why I tried to show people some of the reasons behind my preference.

    Oh yes, and the stereotypes that smashers had to deal with all these years far predated our community banning items. If you want to continue this discussion further, do it in the SWF thread (but keep it civil). This thread is not the place for these discussions, and mods seem to lock any thread on these boards that have the word "item" in the title.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Masher, you're incorrect. You have to aim every FS, outside of FSs like Snake's or Pit's, you're not going to just use it.

    Panda, you're stupid. The simple fact is if you don't fuck up, you're not going to die. If you don't put yourself in a position to be killed, you're not going to be killed. And just because it's a tourney vid with top-level players doesn't mean they're immune from having a mistake pointed out. I mean, in the 2006 Daigo vs. Afro match, you can't say "oh man, Ryu jHK tatsumaki crossup is so fucking broke and needs to be banned cuz it killed Afro and he's a top level player amirite?!?!?" You can say, in confidence, that Afro shouldn't have gotten crossed up twice. And if he hadn't gotten crossed up twice, he probably wouldn't have died. But really, I don't see why it took you so long to say "I'm done." With the way you've been running your mouth on Smashboards, I'm wondering why you even came here. And with the current wave of "oh man, hammers are SO BROKE," despite the fact that more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits' match vid against Doom Squirrel, where their forums' maturity and wit becomes obvious, and the clearly explosive, game-changing power of the hammer becomes clear with two hammers appearing in the match, yielding a total of zero hits.

    So yeah, post your research, because it's invaluable.
    a) We aren't banning the items. Its a setting in the game. Why is EVO using stock instead of time? Time is the default, and time has plenty of depth, so why don't you use time? Oh wait, because you PREFER stock. Just like how we PREFER no items.
    No. Wrong. It's because time battling leads to a blatantly dominant runaway strategy. Time gameplay breaks the game. I bust out Sonic. I kill you first. I run like hell. I win. Especially since you don't have shit on like the thunderbolt (or whatever it's called), which I think is going to be an issue at Evo.
    Which leads to the next point,

    b) Realizing its a preference goes both ways, Keits. Only very, very few people on either side of the argument actually realize its a preference issue. I KNOW this is a preference on my part. A preference that determines whether or not I go to EVO (which I would love to do), which is why I tried to show people some of the reasons behind my preference.
    No. It doesn't go both ways. Every fighting game ever has played with everything possible in the game unless it's proven broken. Now, just saying something's broken without experimentation, practice, tournies, or knowing what the fuck you're talking about might fly on Smashboards, but it doesn't here on SRK. Preference doesn't, shouldn't and has never mattered in serious fighting games. It shouldn't start with Brawl.
    Oh yes, and the stereotypes that smashers had to deal with all these years far predated our community banning items. If you want to continue this discussion further, do it in the SWF thread (but keep it civil). This thread is not the place for these discussions, and mods seem to lock any thread on these boards that have the word "item" in the title.
    What stereotypes? That they're stupid kids? Scrubs? Yeah, they've certainly shown everyone the error of their ways with this whole series of events.

    Edit: Didn't wanna sound like a jackass to Masher. Sorry :sad:
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    like what? I use G&W,you can run but you can't hide!:tup:Tentacles all in up dat mouth,ass,and pussy!:tup:


    thank god!:pray:
    never dealt with G&Ws. but most people, you do NOT want to use their moves the exact moment you get them
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    *sigh* lamewadd, seriously don't turn this thread into an item debate. I'll respond to you, but I don't want to continue this line of discussion in this thread.

    Panda, you're stupid, too. The simple fact is if you don't fuck up, you're not going to die. If you don't put yourself in a position to be killed, you're not going to be killed.

    What are you talking about? When did I say something like that?
    And just because it's a tourney vid with top-level players doesn't mean they're immune from having a mistake pointed out. I mean, in the 2006 Daigo vs. Afro match, you can't say "oh man, Ryu jHK tatsumaki crossup is so fucking broke and needs to be banned cuz it killed Afro and he's a top level player amirite?!?!?"

    So then you say that video analysis is stupid, yet you require everyone who has an argument that is against yours for video evidence? Yeah, that makes sense. And for the record, you're agreeing with me that analyzing a video and saying "Oh, he should've done X and Y" is bullshit.

    But really, I don't see why it took you so long to say "I'm done." With the way you've been running your mouth on Smashboards, I'm wondering why you even came here.

    Running my mouth? Again, what the hell are you talking about?
    And with the current wave of "oh man, hammers are SO BROKE," despite the fact that more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits' match vid against Doom Squirrel, where their forums' maturity and wit becomes obvious, and the clearly explosive, game-changing power of the hammer becomes clear with two hammers appearing in the match, yielding a total of zero hits.

    No comment on the match, as I've stated above that analyzing a video and saying what they SHOULD have done is stupid. And when did I ever say hammers are broken? Here's the answer: I didn't.
    So yeah, post your research, because it's invaluable.

    Lamewadd, I know you're just a troll that doesn't hold any respect, which is why I'm ignoring this.

    No. Wrong. It's because time battling leads to a blatantly dominant runaway strategy. Time gameplay breaks the game. I bust out Sonic. I kill you first. I run like hell. I win. Especially since you don't have shit on like the thunderbolt (or whatever it's called), which I think is going to be an issue at Evo.

    You are so right. In stock, you can't run the timer down at all because its decided by sudden death. Oh wait, EVO threw out SD as the deciding factor. Also, how can you say its a dominant strategy? Quit the theory fighter.


    No. It doesn't go both ways. Every fighting game ever has played with everything possible in the game unless it's proven broken. Now, just saying something's broken without experimentation, practice, tournies, or knowing what the fuck you're talking about might fly on Smashboards, but it doesn't here on SRK. Preference doesn't, shouldn't and has never mattered in serious fighting games. It shouldn't start with Brawl.

    See? This is what I was talking about. Very few people on either side of the argument realize this is a preference issue, and they throw out ignorance as fact like lamewadd just did there.



    And for the last time, I don't want to continue this discussion in this thread.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Panda - then stop it. And OF COURSE i know that both ways are preferences. Are you retarded? How many times have you seen me on SWF crying and telling them they are doing it wrong? Meanwhile, they invade my youtube videos and tell me I suck repeatedly. Wow, great group you have going over there. But you know that, and thats why you keep the backroom open, so you dont have to deal with most of your community's members. I've said it 100 times, and this is the last time in this thread, but...

    Some people like items off.
    Some people like items on.
    Some people just like brawl and will play however.

    Some people think its necessary to try to force every tournament to run the same ruleset. These are the people I loath
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    I was kind of hoping this wouldn't turn into an argument because it's a very useful thread :\.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • subt-Lsubt-L Cold Blooded Joined: Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    get the debating out of the thread. stop being retarded.

    you can be for items and you can be against items. that's fine.

    but even if you are against weapons, this isn't about bashing weapons... its about learning as much as possible about items. this isn't a debate or an argument thread. its about finding what possible defenses and offenses can be established with weapons.

    i wish i would have contributed to this more, but i'm busy... but regardless, it shouldn't have turned into a "swf guy found this, now you're item crusade is a wash" bullshit. and arguing with him is equally as bad. i would simply just get the debate posts deleted and get this !stickied! thread back to the reason why it was !stickied!...

    i enjoyed the bit about the item priority. it could be useful. but with all the controller priority shit going on, i'd like to run my own tests before even thinking that this is going to alter my strategy on dealing with fs'es anyways.
    O_o
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was kind of hoping this wouldn't turn into an argument because it's a very useful thread :\.

    For some reason if anyone who's recognizable from SWF posts research, others attack them thinking they're anti-item. The moderation here is about as bad as it is on SWF. Trolls like lamewadd should be banned. I'm not sure why he's still around.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits' match vid against Doom Squirrel

    Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.

    Those comments are pretty hilarious though, huh?
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    For some reason if anyone who's recognizable from SWF posts research, others attack them thinking they're anti-item. The moderation here is about as bad as it is on SWF. Trolls like lamewadd should be banned. I'm not sure why he's still around.
    Actually, even on the Spam boards like General Brawl Discussion, while moderation takes time, it's fairly consistent. Spam (even moderate such) and trolling and other rule breeches get you warnings. Threads are locked down if they're bad/useless (like, reaaaaally useless) and people are actually banned once in a while.

    It just takes time.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.

    I don't think you did anything wrong. But I don't think a bunch of random people who've never played Smash happened to congregate for a Keits hate fest.

    And it's funny how people who made threads specifically to bitch and say they're not going to Evo are calling me a troll. But hey, if Smashboarders were smart...they'd be on SRK.

    Anyway, BACK TO ITEM KNOWLEDGE.
  • nasirnasir Whup dat ass. Joined: Posts: 511 mod
    keep this thread on track please. all of you.
    Thanks to Quiche for the whupass avatar
    Tatsu: i trapped myself today http://tinyurl.com/mnprjp
    Tatsu: i was like wtf. who is that girl in the bottom left?? and i was like oh fuck
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    *Escape the FAN*
    *Avoid Assists* '
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,305
    Ok next we need "how to dodge final smashes" videos.

    I'd like to see wolf, falco, snake, sonic, and luigi on a really small level. I'll be happy to be the guy in control of the final smashes as well. Or maybe bean, he's really good with the landmasters, I have yet to avoid one of his Final Smashes.

    There's probably some other troublesome ones too but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Secret weapon for avoiding landmaster death? You can drop through the nozzle of the tank by simply smashing down, just like any thin platform.

    How did no one think of this in these last two months?

    The problem with you playing the final smashes is that we would have lag, and that makes everything harder and less legit. I will include clips from you if you want to do them with friends and send them to me.
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
Sign In or Register to comment.