Item Knowledge Database

13»

Comments

  • subt-Lsubt-L Cold Blooded Joined: Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?

    Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?:razz:
    well, for all the one hit fs'es (link, marth, zelda) it allows a person who is down in the game the confidence to try to combo into thier fs without worry of it being knocked out.

    my question is if someone is if player 1 is down 1 stock to 2 stock, and he gains the fs, k.o's the other person, if player 2 attacks player 1, will he be able to knock it out?

    i'd test it myself, but i've been moving all month.
    O_o
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    Ok the dragoon is banned,shame you guys can't read and whats the problem with the smashballs hits while winner having it?

    Yes, we know the dragoon is banned, asshole. We were doing some research on items in general, and I can tell you really appreciate other people going through the effort.
    Who isn't going to use their special within 3 sec after getting it? The only reason would be if you have the SB and your opponent is at 100%+ and you want to get rid of that stock without using your SB but thats taking a risk. So you just proved the game takes more skill with items on! Are you sure you're not pro-items?:razz:

    I would completely debunk your argument, but that doesn't matter anymore. Someone can just come over and say "lol quit it with the theory fighter" and suddenly I'm proven wrong. I can bring video evidence that will completely debunk everything argued against it. Then people will counter it with "they totally didn't know what they are doing, they shulda dun X then Y and they totally woulda won", and if I argue against that then people say "lol quit it with the theory fighter." Hell, I can give you videos from EVO tournaments, like the amazing one in 2k7 where Wong came back with just his Cyclops. I could say, "His opponent should've done X and Y and he would've beat Wong." But what the hell does that change? Those are top level players, right? What-if arguments are bullshit, yet when a pro-item player comes in to say it, they are automatically the ones who are right. And the best part about this is? The pro-item players whom everyone automatically agrees with despite the hypocrisy or idiocy of the arguments are NOT the top level players. The top level players are the ones who are anti-item and are brushed aside by everyone else. The Justin Wongs of the Smash world all weighed in on the subject, and were anti-item. Does that matter? Apparently not.

    And thats it. Thats my last post on SRK debating items. I'm not going to deal with it anymore. But I'm smart enough to not assume every SRK user is as pretentious as you are, so I will continue to share the knowledge and research that we gain with you guys. But as soon as I see you guys don't give a shit anymore, then I'll stop sharing. Because I don't have to. I'm just doing this because I can, and I feel that if you're going to use items and research them then you might as well be thorough about it. I'm just glad there are a few SRK users (seriously like 3) that have a head on their shoulders.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    This is not an items debate thread. Its for facts about items. So, putting researched stuff here is the right thing to do. NO items are banned in all-brawl, and Rank 4 brawl (the one we SHOULD be playing) has everything except heart/start/tomato/curry. All information is welcome in this thread.

    The fact that someone can say that a different course of action would have yielded different results simply shows the depth of items play. What you need to realize, Panda, is that SRK and SWF have different criteria for what warrants a ban and what constitutes as competitive. Items-On works. Trying to debate that is does not is a lost cause, and the sooner you can get your group to realize that they are arguing simply over a preference, the sooner they will stop jumping feet first into the stereotype they have had to deal with all these years from us.

    I feel like I must note, though, that Smash has no 'justin wongs'. Justin is Justin because he is great at every fighting game, not just one.
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • mashermasher Chun's booty itches Joined: Posts: 348
    obviously you've never played anyone like Ciernian (sp?). If you're gonna use it in "3 secs" your opponent could just count "3 secs" and then do said avoidance tactic

    like what? I use G&W,you can run but you can't hide!:tup:Tentacles all in up dat mouth,ass,and pussy!:tup:

    And thats it. Thats my last post on SRK
    thank god!:pray:
    Oct 17 2007 mark yo calender
    SF4 is coming!!!

    http://www.360elite4free.com/index.php?ref=4173787
    paying $15 for your referral
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    What you need to realize, Panda, is that SRK and SWF have different criteria for what warrants a ban and what constitutes as competitive. Items-On works. Trying to debate that is does not is a lost cause, and the sooner you can get your group to realize that they are arguing simply over a preference, the sooner they will stop jumping feet first into the stereotype they have had to deal with all these years from us.

    a) We aren't banning the items. Its a setting in the game. Why is EVO using stock instead of time? Time is the default, and time has plenty of depth, so why don't you use time? Oh wait, because you PREFER stock. Just like how we PREFER no items. Which leads to the next point,

    b) Realizing its a preference goes both ways, Keits. Only very, very few people on either side of the argument actually realize its a preference issue. I KNOW this is a preference on my part. A preference that determines whether or not I go to EVO (which I would love to do), which is why I tried to show people some of the reasons behind my preference.

    Oh yes, and the stereotypes that smashers had to deal with all these years far predated our community banning items. If you want to continue this discussion further, do it in the SWF thread (but keep it civil). This thread is not the place for these discussions, and mods seem to lock any thread on these boards that have the word "item" in the title.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Masher, you're incorrect. You have to aim every FS, outside of FSs like Snake's or Pit's, you're not going to just use it.

    Panda, you're stupid. The simple fact is if you don't fuck up, you're not going to die. If you don't put yourself in a position to be killed, you're not going to be killed. And just because it's a tourney vid with top-level players doesn't mean they're immune from having a mistake pointed out. I mean, in the 2006 Daigo vs. Afro match, you can't say "oh man, Ryu jHK tatsumaki crossup is so fucking broke and needs to be banned cuz it killed Afro and he's a top level player amirite?!?!?" You can say, in confidence, that Afro shouldn't have gotten crossed up twice. And if he hadn't gotten crossed up twice, he probably wouldn't have died. But really, I don't see why it took you so long to say "I'm done." With the way you've been running your mouth on Smashboards, I'm wondering why you even came here. And with the current wave of "oh man, hammers are SO BROKE," despite the fact that more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits' match vid against Doom Squirrel, where their forums' maturity and wit becomes obvious, and the clearly explosive, game-changing power of the hammer becomes clear with two hammers appearing in the match, yielding a total of zero hits.

    So yeah, post your research, because it's invaluable.
    a) We aren't banning the items. Its a setting in the game. Why is EVO using stock instead of time? Time is the default, and time has plenty of depth, so why don't you use time? Oh wait, because you PREFER stock. Just like how we PREFER no items.
    No. Wrong. It's because time battling leads to a blatantly dominant runaway strategy. Time gameplay breaks the game. I bust out Sonic. I kill you first. I run like hell. I win. Especially since you don't have shit on like the thunderbolt (or whatever it's called), which I think is going to be an issue at Evo.
    Which leads to the next point,

    b) Realizing its a preference goes both ways, Keits. Only very, very few people on either side of the argument actually realize its a preference issue. I KNOW this is a preference on my part. A preference that determines whether or not I go to EVO (which I would love to do), which is why I tried to show people some of the reasons behind my preference.
    No. It doesn't go both ways. Every fighting game ever has played with everything possible in the game unless it's proven broken. Now, just saying something's broken without experimentation, practice, tournies, or knowing what the fuck you're talking about might fly on Smashboards, but it doesn't here on SRK. Preference doesn't, shouldn't and has never mattered in serious fighting games. It shouldn't start with Brawl.
    Oh yes, and the stereotypes that smashers had to deal with all these years far predated our community banning items. If you want to continue this discussion further, do it in the SWF thread (but keep it civil). This thread is not the place for these discussions, and mods seem to lock any thread on these boards that have the word "item" in the title.
    What stereotypes? That they're stupid kids? Scrubs? Yeah, they've certainly shown everyone the error of their ways with this whole series of events.

    Edit: Didn't wanna sound like a jackass to Masher. Sorry :sad:
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    like what? I use G&W,you can run but you can't hide!:tup:Tentacles all in up dat mouth,ass,and pussy!:tup:


    thank god!:pray:
    never dealt with G&Ws. but most people, you do NOT want to use their moves the exact moment you get them
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • SamuraiPanda001SamuraiPanda001 Joined: Posts: 175
    *sigh* lamewadd, seriously don't turn this thread into an item debate. I'll respond to you, but I don't want to continue this line of discussion in this thread.

    Panda, you're stupid, too. The simple fact is if you don't fuck up, you're not going to die. If you don't put yourself in a position to be killed, you're not going to be killed.

    What are you talking about? When did I say something like that?
    And just because it's a tourney vid with top-level players doesn't mean they're immune from having a mistake pointed out. I mean, in the 2006 Daigo vs. Afro match, you can't say "oh man, Ryu jHK tatsumaki crossup is so fucking broke and needs to be banned cuz it killed Afro and he's a top level player amirite?!?!?"

    So then you say that video analysis is stupid, yet you require everyone who has an argument that is against yours for video evidence? Yeah, that makes sense. And for the record, you're agreeing with me that analyzing a video and saying "Oh, he should've done X and Y" is bullshit.

    But really, I don't see why it took you so long to say "I'm done." With the way you've been running your mouth on Smashboards, I'm wondering why you even came here.

    Running my mouth? Again, what the hell are you talking about?
    And with the current wave of "oh man, hammers are SO BROKE," despite the fact that more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits' match vid against Doom Squirrel, where their forums' maturity and wit becomes obvious, and the clearly explosive, game-changing power of the hammer becomes clear with two hammers appearing in the match, yielding a total of zero hits.

    No comment on the match, as I've stated above that analyzing a video and saying what they SHOULD have done is stupid. And when did I ever say hammers are broken? Here's the answer: I didn't.
    So yeah, post your research, because it's invaluable.

    Lamewadd, I know you're just a troll that doesn't hold any respect, which is why I'm ignoring this.

    No. Wrong. It's because time battling leads to a blatantly dominant runaway strategy. Time gameplay breaks the game. I bust out Sonic. I kill you first. I run like hell. I win. Especially since you don't have shit on like the thunderbolt (or whatever it's called), which I think is going to be an issue at Evo.

    You are so right. In stock, you can't run the timer down at all because its decided by sudden death. Oh wait, EVO threw out SD as the deciding factor. Also, how can you say its a dominant strategy? Quit the theory fighter.


    No. It doesn't go both ways. Every fighting game ever has played with everything possible in the game unless it's proven broken. Now, just saying something's broken without experimentation, practice, tournies, or knowing what the fuck you're talking about might fly on Smashboards, but it doesn't here on SRK. Preference doesn't, shouldn't and has never mattered in serious fighting games. It shouldn't start with Brawl.

    See? This is what I was talking about. Very few people on either side of the argument realize this is a preference issue, and they throw out ignorance as fact like lamewadd just did there.



    And for the last time, I don't want to continue this discussion in this thread.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Panda - then stop it. And OF COURSE i know that both ways are preferences. Are you retarded? How many times have you seen me on SWF crying and telling them they are doing it wrong? Meanwhile, they invade my youtube videos and tell me I suck repeatedly. Wow, great group you have going over there. But you know that, and thats why you keep the backroom open, so you dont have to deal with most of your community's members. I've said it 100 times, and this is the last time in this thread, but...

    Some people like items off.
    Some people like items on.
    Some people just like brawl and will play however.

    Some people think its necessary to try to force every tournament to run the same ruleset. These are the people I loath
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    I was kind of hoping this wouldn't turn into an argument because it's a very useful thread :\.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • subt-Lsubt-L Cold Blooded Joined: Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    get the debating out of the thread. stop being retarded.

    you can be for items and you can be against items. that's fine.

    but even if you are against weapons, this isn't about bashing weapons... its about learning as much as possible about items. this isn't a debate or an argument thread. its about finding what possible defenses and offenses can be established with weapons.

    i wish i would have contributed to this more, but i'm busy... but regardless, it shouldn't have turned into a "swf guy found this, now you're item crusade is a wash" bullshit. and arguing with him is equally as bad. i would simply just get the debate posts deleted and get this !stickied! thread back to the reason why it was !stickied!...

    i enjoyed the bit about the item priority. it could be useful. but with all the controller priority shit going on, i'd like to run my own tests before even thinking that this is going to alter my strategy on dealing with fs'es anyways.
    O_o
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was kind of hoping this wouldn't turn into an argument because it's a very useful thread :\.

    For some reason if anyone who's recognizable from SWF posts research, others attack them thinking they're anti-item. The moderation here is about as bad as it is on SWF. Trolls like lamewadd should be banned. I'm not sure why he's still around.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits' match vid against Doom Squirrel

    Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.

    Those comments are pretty hilarious though, huh?
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    For some reason if anyone who's recognizable from SWF posts research, others attack them thinking they're anti-item. The moderation here is about as bad as it is on SWF. Trolls like lamewadd should be banned. I'm not sure why he's still around.
    Actually, even on the Spam boards like General Brawl Discussion, while moderation takes time, it's fairly consistent. Spam (even moderate such) and trolling and other rule breeches get you warnings. Threads are locked down if they're bad/useless (like, reaaaaally useless) and people are actually banned once in a while.

    It just takes time.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.

    I don't think you did anything wrong. But I don't think a bunch of random people who've never played Smash happened to congregate for a Keits hate fest.

    And it's funny how people who made threads specifically to bitch and say they're not going to Evo are calling me a troll. But hey, if Smashboarders were smart...they'd be on SRK.

    Anyway, BACK TO ITEM KNOWLEDGE.
  • nasirnasir Whup dat ass. Joined: Posts: 511 mod
    keep this thread on track please. all of you.
    Thanks to Quiche for the whupass avatar
    Tatsu: i trapped myself today http://tinyurl.com/mnprjp
    Tatsu: i was like wtf. who is that girl in the bottom left?? and i was like oh fuck
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    *Escape the FAN*
    *Avoid Assists* '
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,304
    Ok next we need "how to dodge final smashes" videos.

    I'd like to see wolf, falco, snake, sonic, and luigi on a really small level. I'll be happy to be the guy in control of the final smashes as well. Or maybe bean, he's really good with the landmasters, I have yet to avoid one of his Final Smashes.

    There's probably some other troublesome ones too but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Secret weapon for avoiding landmaster death? You can drop through the nozzle of the tank by simply smashing down, just like any thin platform.

    How did no one think of this in these last two months?

    The problem with you playing the final smashes is that we would have lag, and that makes everything harder and less legit. I will include clips from you if you want to do them with friends and send them to me.
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    Ledge invincibility also works against a landmaster if you can get down there quickly.

    I can't record anything myself, but I'd gladly contribute some replays of Final Smash dodging if you'd have them.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    too dangerous IMO. I mean the tank could just park down there, then that'd force you off the ledge either by a hit or your own actions. If you jump, roll, simply get up, etc. I think that rolls you on top of the tank. Depending on who's playing, you might've just killed yourself
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • BlueTerroristBlueTerrorist Joined: Posts: 37
    This thread is pretty useful. Looking at EVO matches was fun to watch, unlike some of the recent Brawl videos I've seen (I saw the Ken Vs. SK92 one). Items has gotten my interest. I'll check Keits Youtube vids out sometime, it's good to see what other things smash has to offer.

    Hmmmm, a video about dodging Final Smashes is great. I don't have anyone to do it with though and my camera kinda sucks :rofl:.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    I'll be doing videos about countering both Hammers, as well as a primer for 'best practices' in hitting with AND evading final smashes (probably a few characters at a time).
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • DanielRGTDanielRGT Owner of Ram Gay Treasures Joined: Posts: 637
    Countering black hammer: Breath on the black hammer user.

    The hammer is seriously either falling off, or it gets outprioritized by simple moves. Kirby's bair beats it, and you can also grab people out of it.
    No Wiz, I will not be greyhounding to EVO.

    ---http://www.jamisontrumpets.com : My Website
    ---http://www.youtube.com/FRArcade/ : Final Round Arcade Stream Match Videos
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    The black hammer is pretty bad in this iteration of Smash. Getting it will either open you up for attack (as a ridiculous number of attacks beat it; if they have a setup move like Ness' PK Fire you are pretty much screwed), accomplish nothing, cause your death or any combination of the three. It's almost an instant liability just to get the dumb thing.

    Speaking of liabilities, the Metal Box isn't that great anymore either :\. Getting it opens you up for an down throw chaingrab from most characters that can last the duration of the item.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Black hammer is lol actually because of the fact they can't jump property with the hammer characters can chain grab you alot easier.
    Ok next we need "how to dodge final smashes" videos.

    I'd like to see wolf, falco, snake, sonic, and luigi on a really small level. I'll be happy to be the guy in control of the final smashes as well. Or maybe bean, he's really good with the landmasters, I have yet to avoid one of his Final Smashes.

    There's probably some other troublesome ones too but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

    I might do a vid in a few weeks but don't keep your hopes up I might forget but for now I can tell you how I do it.

    I can help you on all of these, wolf, falco and fox, just hope that you arn't a slow character and just run away alot and when they are falling on you just use edge but get off before they spin and get on top of them again, it works and you can do it all day.

    Snake, run in circles and dodge all day its hard not to never get hit but I normally only get hit 1-2 times in his 12 shot volley.

    Luigi on a small level damn pray that his move doesn't cover everything and just keep spamming roll, if it does, roll into shorthop air dodge and try TRY to use edge invunerablity, there isn't really much you can do.

    Sonic can be easy, if he is flying across the stage and its 1v1 just side step, seriously this is easy, if you are in FFA when he hits someone he stops for like 1/2 a second which WILL mess up your timing, however sonic can just float right next to you slow then try to trick you then combo you up to the top, but you can escape that and it does alot less knock back.


    personally I don't like items in tourneys cause it uses smash balls and I main ZSS, and I don't like dropping tiers :( , thats why I learned how to transform into ZSS instantly though :D , but I have had lots of experience with items, and most items are best thrown, and alot of items tosses can be linked after you connect hits, or as part of a mixup only to be grabbed in pretty much the next instant. Im sure this was mentioned earlier but you can grab items by air dodging. Also you can toss items up if you want to grab then grab them again before they hit the ground playing with items is very fun, and you can come up with all sorts of crazy stuff, I just don't like them in tournies for above reasons and it makes more of the matchups similar, plus star rod is retarded, its free zoning for a long time. And items are amazing for spikes, toss item then do your spike to hit them right when they finish dodge is epic, or if they are close to not being able to recover and a dodge would kill them, just toss an item either they get slammed down or airdodge and die.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    The Smash Ball swapping between Samus and ZSS just forced me to learn them both. I love the dynamic between the way the two play and it can really screw with your opponent's head.

    But that's just me, really.

    EDIT: Also, funny you mention the Star Rod. It's actually one of the items that work completely differently with most chars. Shiek for example releases two stars with her swipe and Captain Falcon is a freaking monster with it- he releases this 5 star barrage that's tough to see coming and you only get like two or three swings worth of them.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • MarKO XMarKO X StreetFightinSmasher Joined: Posts: 13
    The Smash Ball swapping between Samus and ZSS just forced me to learn them both. I love the dynamic between the way the two play and it can really screw with your opponent's head.

    But that's just me, really.

    EDIT: Also, funny you mention the Star Rod. It's actually one of the items that work completely differently with most chars. Shiek for example releases two stars with her swipe and Captain Falcon is a freaking monster with it- he releases this 5 star barrage that's tough to see coming and you only get like two or three swings worth of them.

    4 smash swings with Falcon, 10 smash swings with Shiek. You get 20 stars per rod, and you can still whack people with it and toss it for the semi-spike when your ammunition is done.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    I wasn't trying to be exact. I was just saying, Falcon's pretty beastly with the thing.

    Don't get me wrong, though, I appreciate the data.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • BlueTerroristBlueTerrorist Joined: Posts: 37
    Concerning Final Smashes and it's "Brokeness"

    You may wanna turn your attention to these vids if you haven't seen them already:
    How To Dodge FS'es

    Part 1-
    Part 2-
    Part 3-
    Extras-

    Watch it, learn it, use it for debates, love it. One of the best explanations you'll hear about defending against Final Smashes. I'm starting to think we jumped the gun when many players wrote off Final Smashes.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Those are decently produced videos, but they are missing a LOT of technique for USE of the final smashes that make some of them much harder to avoid, as well as many common techniques for avoiding.

    For instance, it never mentions the best way to get off the top of a flying landmaster (move to front of nozzle, drop through as you leave the top of the screen) and never warns you not to ever leave the ground vs Warioman (he WILL kill you).
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    The nozzle really is the best way to get off the tank. My friend learned a nasty trick where he'll try to follow me to keep me from falling off. If the Landmaster's moving backwards, you absolutely cannot run off the back of it. You'll get caught and then subsequently thrown offscreen :\.

    It may screw with your opponent's head if you dive through the nozzle onto the lower half of the landmaster, where he absolutely cannot take you offscreen without killing himself in the process.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I know FSs are dodgeable we played with them for months and because of this we can combo into the bloody things.

    Zelda: d-tilt , FS
    Sheik:f-tilt, FS.
    Ike:back/forward toss, FS.
    ZSS: neutral air, FS.
    up B, FS
    B, FS
    down smash,downsmash, FS.
    one of the links can combo into FS but I forget it.
    luigi/ganon for impossible edge guards, DK's sometimes, depends on how the music goes.

    maybes:(aka we just found these about when we stopped using FS's)
    MK: d-tilt,FS.
    Marth: up air-land cancel. FS (only low dmgs.)
    d-tilt FS \O_O/ (just a guess here I don't play marth).
    Olimar has one cause my bro did it too me all the time but I forget the move to do it, either that or its damn hard to escape.



    on another note: how come in every dodge sonic vid they show him going so fast, the trick with his FS if ppl know what the hell they are doing it to fly right next to them slowly, then after you hit just go up and hit them again, they can't airdodge in time, and if they do punish it.
    The nozzle really is the best way to get off the tank. My friend learned a nasty trick where he'll try to follow me to keep me from falling off. If the Landmaster's moving backwards, you absolutely cannot run off the back of it. You'll get caught and then subsequently thrown offscreen :\.

    It may screw with your opponent's head if you dive through the nozzle onto the lower half of the landmaster, where he absolutely cannot take you offscreen without killing himself in the process.

    thats when he turns around and follows peppy's advice and does a barrel roll.

    but yeah the landmaster isn't too bad, just fall though the cannon , and short hop on top of it repeatedly.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    thats when he turns around and follows peppy's advice and does a barrel roll.

    I should have clarified that this is all going on when the landmaster's in the air trying to send me off the top of the screen. On the ground, yeah, it can just barrel roll or shoot to stop that nice and quick.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I should have clarified that this is all going on when the landmaster's in the air trying to send me off the top of the screen. On the ground, yeah, it can just barrel roll or shoot to stop that nice and quick.

    yeah with landmasters unless its someone slow like ganon or the other slow ppls I just chill at the bottom cause you have to come down sometime.
  • CeirnianCeirnian Legendary Prosecutor Joined: Posts: 350
    Those are decently produced videos, but they are missing a LOT of technique for USE of the final smashes that make some of them much harder to avoid, as well as many common techniques for avoiding.

    For instance, it never mentions the best way to get off the top of a flying landmaster (move to front of nozzle, drop through as you leave the top of the screen) and never warns you not to ever leave the ground vs Warioman (he WILL kill you).

    Keep in mind the videos were made in July. With some updating (especially good players showcasing proper FS usage) I could see that video being a really solid addition to the items on crowd.

    I really need to start playing this game again more, shouldn't take me long to shake off some rust.
    Avatar by str[e]ak
13»
Sign In or Register to comment.