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  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    Ledge invincibility also works against a landmaster if you can get down there quickly.

    I can't record anything myself, but I'd gladly contribute some replays of Final Smash dodging if you'd have them.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028
    too dangerous IMO. I mean the tank could just park down there, then that'd force you off the ledge either by a hit or your own actions. If you jump, roll, simply get up, etc. I think that rolls you on top of the tank. Depending on who's playing, you might've just killed yourself
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
  • BlueTerroristBlueTerrorist Joined: Posts: 37
    This thread is pretty useful. Looking at EVO matches was fun to watch, unlike some of the recent Brawl videos I've seen (I saw the Ken Vs. SK92 one). Items has gotten my interest. I'll check Keits Youtube vids out sometime, it's good to see what other things smash has to offer.

    Hmmmm, a video about dodging Final Smashes is great. I don't have anyone to do it with though and my camera kinda sucks :rofl:.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    I'll be doing videos about countering both Hammers, as well as a primer for 'best practices' in hitting with AND evading final smashes (probably a few characters at a time).
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • DanielRGTDanielRGT Owner of Ram Gay Treasures Joined: Posts: 637
    Countering black hammer: Breath on the black hammer user.

    The hammer is seriously either falling off, or it gets outprioritized by simple moves. Kirby's bair beats it, and you can also grab people out of it.
    No Wiz, I will not be greyhounding to EVO.

    ---http://www.jamisontrumpets.com : My Website
    ---http://www.youtube.com/FRArcade/ : Final Round Arcade Stream Match Videos
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    The black hammer is pretty bad in this iteration of Smash. Getting it will either open you up for attack (as a ridiculous number of attacks beat it; if they have a setup move like Ness' PK Fire you are pretty much screwed), accomplish nothing, cause your death or any combination of the three. It's almost an instant liability just to get the dumb thing.

    Speaking of liabilities, the Metal Box isn't that great anymore either :\. Getting it opens you up for an down throw chaingrab from most characters that can last the duration of the item.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Black hammer is lol actually because of the fact they can't jump property with the hammer characters can chain grab you alot easier.
    Ok next we need "how to dodge final smashes" videos.

    I'd like to see wolf, falco, snake, sonic, and luigi on a really small level. I'll be happy to be the guy in control of the final smashes as well. Or maybe bean, he's really good with the landmasters, I have yet to avoid one of his Final Smashes.

    There's probably some other troublesome ones too but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

    I might do a vid in a few weeks but don't keep your hopes up I might forget but for now I can tell you how I do it.

    I can help you on all of these, wolf, falco and fox, just hope that you arn't a slow character and just run away alot and when they are falling on you just use edge but get off before they spin and get on top of them again, it works and you can do it all day.

    Snake, run in circles and dodge all day its hard not to never get hit but I normally only get hit 1-2 times in his 12 shot volley.

    Luigi on a small level damn pray that his move doesn't cover everything and just keep spamming roll, if it does, roll into shorthop air dodge and try TRY to use edge invunerablity, there isn't really much you can do.

    Sonic can be easy, if he is flying across the stage and its 1v1 just side step, seriously this is easy, if you are in FFA when he hits someone he stops for like 1/2 a second which WILL mess up your timing, however sonic can just float right next to you slow then try to trick you then combo you up to the top, but you can escape that and it does alot less knock back.


    personally I don't like items in tourneys cause it uses smash balls and I main ZSS, and I don't like dropping tiers :( , thats why I learned how to transform into ZSS instantly though :D , but I have had lots of experience with items, and most items are best thrown, and alot of items tosses can be linked after you connect hits, or as part of a mixup only to be grabbed in pretty much the next instant. Im sure this was mentioned earlier but you can grab items by air dodging. Also you can toss items up if you want to grab then grab them again before they hit the ground playing with items is very fun, and you can come up with all sorts of crazy stuff, I just don't like them in tournies for above reasons and it makes more of the matchups similar, plus star rod is retarded, its free zoning for a long time. And items are amazing for spikes, toss item then do your spike to hit them right when they finish dodge is epic, or if they are close to not being able to recover and a dodge would kill them, just toss an item either they get slammed down or airdodge and die.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    The Smash Ball swapping between Samus and ZSS just forced me to learn them both. I love the dynamic between the way the two play and it can really screw with your opponent's head.

    But that's just me, really.

    EDIT: Also, funny you mention the Star Rod. It's actually one of the items that work completely differently with most chars. Shiek for example releases two stars with her swipe and Captain Falcon is a freaking monster with it- he releases this 5 star barrage that's tough to see coming and you only get like two or three swings worth of them.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • MarKO XMarKO X StreetFightinSmasher Joined: Posts: 13
    The Smash Ball swapping between Samus and ZSS just forced me to learn them both. I love the dynamic between the way the two play and it can really screw with your opponent's head.

    But that's just me, really.

    EDIT: Also, funny you mention the Star Rod. It's actually one of the items that work completely differently with most chars. Shiek for example releases two stars with her swipe and Captain Falcon is a freaking monster with it- he releases this 5 star barrage that's tough to see coming and you only get like two or three swings worth of them.

    4 smash swings with Falcon, 10 smash swings with Shiek. You get 20 stars per rod, and you can still whack people with it and toss it for the semi-spike when your ammunition is done.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    I wasn't trying to be exact. I was just saying, Falcon's pretty beastly with the thing.

    Don't get me wrong, though, I appreciate the data.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • BlueTerroristBlueTerrorist Joined: Posts: 37
    Concerning Final Smashes and it's "Brokeness"

    You may wanna turn your attention to these vids if you haven't seen them already:
    How To Dodge FS'es

    Part 1-
    Part 2-
    Part 3-
    Extras-

    Watch it, learn it, use it for debates, love it. One of the best explanations you'll hear about defending against Final Smashes. I'm starting to think we jumped the gun when many players wrote off Final Smashes.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    Those are decently produced videos, but they are missing a LOT of technique for USE of the final smashes that make some of them much harder to avoid, as well as many common techniques for avoiding.

    For instance, it never mentions the best way to get off the top of a flying landmaster (move to front of nozzle, drop through as you leave the top of the screen) and never warns you not to ever leave the ground vs Warioman (he WILL kill you).
    Visit OneTrueGame.com for information on DIVEKICK, Tunnel, and future projects.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    The nozzle really is the best way to get off the tank. My friend learned a nasty trick where he'll try to follow me to keep me from falling off. If the Landmaster's moving backwards, you absolutely cannot run off the back of it. You'll get caught and then subsequently thrown offscreen :\.

    It may screw with your opponent's head if you dive through the nozzle onto the lower half of the landmaster, where he absolutely cannot take you offscreen without killing himself in the process.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I know FSs are dodgeable we played with them for months and because of this we can combo into the bloody things.

    Zelda: d-tilt , FS
    Sheik:f-tilt, FS.
    Ike:back/forward toss, FS.
    ZSS: neutral air, FS.
    up B, FS
    B, FS
    down smash,downsmash, FS.
    one of the links can combo into FS but I forget it.
    luigi/ganon for impossible edge guards, DK's sometimes, depends on how the music goes.

    maybes:(aka we just found these about when we stopped using FS's)
    MK: d-tilt,FS.
    Marth: up air-land cancel. FS (only low dmgs.)
    d-tilt FS \O_O/ (just a guess here I don't play marth).
    Olimar has one cause my bro did it too me all the time but I forget the move to do it, either that or its damn hard to escape.



    on another note: how come in every dodge sonic vid they show him going so fast, the trick with his FS if ppl know what the hell they are doing it to fly right next to them slowly, then after you hit just go up and hit them again, they can't airdodge in time, and if they do punish it.
    The nozzle really is the best way to get off the tank. My friend learned a nasty trick where he'll try to follow me to keep me from falling off. If the Landmaster's moving backwards, you absolutely cannot run off the back of it. You'll get caught and then subsequently thrown offscreen :\.

    It may screw with your opponent's head if you dive through the nozzle onto the lower half of the landmaster, where he absolutely cannot take you offscreen without killing himself in the process.

    thats when he turns around and follows peppy's advice and does a barrel roll.

    but yeah the landmaster isn't too bad, just fall though the cannon , and short hop on top of it repeatedly.
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    thats when he turns around and follows peppy's advice and does a barrel roll.

    I should have clarified that this is all going on when the landmaster's in the air trying to send me off the top of the screen. On the ground, yeah, it can just barrel roll or shoot to stop that nice and quick.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I should have clarified that this is all going on when the landmaster's in the air trying to send me off the top of the screen. On the ground, yeah, it can just barrel roll or shoot to stop that nice and quick.

    yeah with landmasters unless its someone slow like ganon or the other slow ppls I just chill at the bottom cause you have to come down sometime.
  • CeirnianCeirnian Legendary Prosecutor Joined: Posts: 350
    Those are decently produced videos, but they are missing a LOT of technique for USE of the final smashes that make some of them much harder to avoid, as well as many common techniques for avoiding.

    For instance, it never mentions the best way to get off the top of a flying landmaster (move to front of nozzle, drop through as you leave the top of the screen) and never warns you not to ever leave the ground vs Warioman (he WILL kill you).

    Keep in mind the videos were made in July. With some updating (especially good players showcasing proper FS usage) I could see that video being a really solid addition to the items on crowd.

    I really need to start playing this game again more, shouldn't take me long to shake off some rust.
    Avatar by str[e]ak
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