Official Samurai Shodown II Thread

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
Well considering the game will be getting a release on Xbox live arcade I figured it was about time we got some serious discussion going. Unfortunately I'm not really to familar with the game so i'll be limited in my contributions, however to the rest of you if you guys have any strats,combos,match ups,tiers, match videos, character primers or whatever for SS2 plz post it here. Alright lets get this thread going.
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Comments

  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    Was Ukyo THAT broken or did people just over-exaggerate? The game actually seems pretty balanced aside otherwise.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Actually if I'm not mistaken the game is easily one of the most balanced tittles of all time. The brackets between characters are marginal that it doesn't even feel like there are tiers in the game...at least thats what I heard.
  • chopachopa Joined: Posts: 932
    I've heard similar with the exception of ukyo who stands atop everyone
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  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,036
    Perhaps the question is how big are the gaps in the tiers? =o
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  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ukyo is good because he can punish a lot of stuff that really shouldn't be punishable, and he has the best fb in the game. The only thing he really lacks is the high damage some of the other characters can dish out, but again, the fact that he can punish you just for poking at him more than makes up for that. He probably has the fastest low AB punisher in the game. He can also runaway, rushdown or play high/low mixup games.

    IMO charlotte and jubei can fight him, but they still lose for the most part. Charlotte has long reaching fast normals and a really good j.AB. Jubei has the second best fb in the game, and the best jump in with j.A or j.B. I think Haohmaru does ok too since if you mess up, you're practically dead if he hits you.

    Tier list would probably be something like:

    Top:
    ukyo
    .
    .
    .
    Charlotte

    high:
    jubei
    hao
    genjuro* (I think he's a very high risk character and could be either high or mid)

    mid:
    galford
    hanzo
    gen an
    kyoshiro
    Earthquake
    nicotine

    Low:
    Nak
    cham cham
    wan fu
    Sieger

    Outside of ukyo and charlotte, i think the tiers are a little closer than they seem just because the game is full of gimmicky strategies. Everyone has sort of a fair chance at winning if you can get their gimmicks to work in disadvantaged matchups.
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  • ToyRobotTerrorToyRobotTerror Magnificent Bastard Joined: Posts: 2,078
    Caliagent raped me with nak :( .
    Anyway i think there are loads of fun shit in this game. Roll cancels, crossover command grabs, spd cancels etc.
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  • CarmenCarmen 三十六計,走為上策 Joined: Posts: 684
    I don't play Ukyo much, but I've heard Nako is pretty good against him, because a lot of his strats fall flat against her. As for damage his Rage gives him the most increase of all characters, and lasts a fair amount of time too. He takes a while to get angry though...

    But yea, it seems fair to me, according even to this tier list on a Nakoruru technique site http://www2q.biglobe.ne.jp/~tuc/samusupi/dg.htm games turn out to be fairly even when you look at the individual results!

    >> http://poormanweb.ddo.jp/~shinsamurai/SinSamurai_Main.htm TONS of info at this site, a lot of it very in-depth.

    My question: I remember reading Sieger had some sort of very good strat which involved guarenteed Vulcan shot on an opponent who was just recovering. I really don't remember the details but it'd seem weird to rank him next to Nako if that were the case.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hmmm, so outside of a few advantages from the top tiers the game is basically even. Although there are definitive tiers, the gap isn't significant enough that it completly disolves the viability of the the lower/mid characters. Would it be fair to assume this game is more balanced then SF2T?
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    I agree with Caliagent all the way..Charlotte can fight him but she loses..I know this as a Charlotte, Ukyo, and Haohmarue tournament player myself.

    Nak has been low tier in pretty much every game shes been in besides CVS1 lol.

    Also this will be hitting with the SS Collection (import) soon so I'm glad to see this thread. Nicotine has a infinite but I believe it can be mashed out of...

    Ukyo is just very safe hence he's God Tier....Charlotte is pretty much the same as SS1..but Ukyo is just that much better in this game..the ultimate low risk high reward character...
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  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    Also this will be hitting with the SS Collection (import) soon so I'm glad to see this thread. Nicotine has a infinite but I believe it can be mashed out of...

    It's with his chain grab move and won't work unless the person you're playing against has no idea what their doing. The move is pretty much worthless.
    Hmmm, so outside of a few advantages from the top tiers the game is basically even. Although there are definitive tiers, the gap isn't significant enough that it completly disolves the viability of the the lower/mid characters. Would it be fair to assume this game is more balanced then SF2T?

    Yeah high/mid/low tier fights can go either way because of the high damage output and depending on the match up. As far as balance goes, i dunno if i'd say it's more balanced than ST. Ukyo kinda skews it a bit because he can punish so many things that he shouldn't be able to.

    FYI to everyone SS2 has been on the ggpo test server for some time now
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  • CarmenCarmen 三十六計,走為上策 Joined: Posts: 684
    Charlotte is pretty much the same as SS1..but Ukyo is just that much better in this game..the ultimate low risk high reward character...

    Really? Cos I can't even begin to play her in 1. She just can't pressure quite as well in that game, whereas in two she can be pretty offensive if you want to go for the attack.

    Where is SS2 on GGPO? I don't see a room for it on the client.
    "老外的LEI很烦人"
    "yea get rid of that tekken three habit of using lei"

    "还是换人吧"

    "你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"

  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Really? Cos I can't even begin to play her in 1. She just can't pressure quite as well in that game, whereas in two she can be pretty offensive if you want to go for the attack.

    Where is SS2 on GGPO? I don't see a room for it on the client.

    It's on the test server. Go to #ggpo on IRC on the efnet server
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    So bascially Ukyo is like the CVS2 Sagat of the game....there always has to be that one character that completly ruins the game doesn't there lol.
  • JGD CHAOSJGD CHAOS Former Well Known Member Joined: Posts: 749
    Ukyo was fun to use with the backstep cancelling fireballs and 50% dizzy combos. GenAn and Nicotine have infinites too. Chain Grab, Standing AB, Repeat. Haohmaru has this one combo too where the standing AB cancels into his Tempa Fuuzin Zan secret move.

    This faq has good information too.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    http://heavenlyspirits.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132 it has some decent info, kind of covers the whole tier debate somewhat.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    This was my original tier listing:

    Top: Ukyo
    Mid: everyone else
    Bottom: Nic and Nak

    I think if I had to really break it down, I'd put it as:

    S: Ukyo
    A: Charlotte, Hanzo, Galford, Genjuro
    B: Jubei, Haohmaru, Earthquake, Kyoshiro
    C: Gen-An, Cham Cham, Wan Fu, Seiger
    D: Nicotine, Nakoruru

    Ukyo is unquestionably the best character in the game. No one matches his ground game and range. cr.B xx After Image Slice punishes 90% of all on the ground. And if a character has trouble dealing with Swallow Swipes, it's free annoyance to your hapless opponent (Charlotte comes to mind immediately). Not to mention Ukyo rages easiest, stays raged longest, and has a great anti-air in standing AB (if they can even get around smartly thrown, varying Swallow Swipes in the first place).

    Charlotte fights very well against everyone in the cast except Ukyo, which I think she dies horribly in, her absolute worst match. Ukyo's jumping AB beats Charlotte's standing AB, standing C, and Power Gradation uppercut cleanly for huge damage, and her anti-air game is where she shines. Ukyo outpokes her on the ground with cr.B (and missed anything with Charlotte = cr.B xx After Image). Then he can spend the whole round making her chase him from across the screen because it's difficult for her to get around varying Swallow Swipes. Against everyone else though, her normals (slashes and kicks, people usually whore her AB slashes and neglect the other buttons) are very high priority and she's 2nd best at annoying the enemy to death by poke.

    The ninjas, Galford and Hanzo, have the best 50/50 in the game that sets itself up again if successful. All it takes is one knockdown from a throw, a trip, SPD, and the nightmare will start for your opponent. Meaty SPD or meaty standing AB xx whatever's safe. If they don't jump and you SPD, they get grabbed. If they try to jump out and you standing AB, they get slashed and are likely dizzied. If they guess right, you can always cancel out into something else. They have better than average air-to-air priority with their jump kicks and jumping AB. On the ground they're not so hot with their normals. But that near safe 50/50 guessing game is what makes the Ninjas better than the rest (who might also have 50/50s, but are not safe).

    With Genjuro, everyone fears his AB slashes and his dizzy potential. All he has to do is fish around with cr.C and then link into his AB slash for an almost guaranteed dizzy. Repeat the combo, and the round is his. His Rekkas are not safe, but don't leave him as open as you would think. It's rather random. The Rekka Slashes are 50/50s in themselves because you can decide whether to make them block correctly or block backwards if you decide to do the crossup version. Plus even if they block correctly, you can spazz out on the remaining 2 and confuse them and you as to how to block. Genjuro's probably the best at fast kills and he does huge damage relative to the rest of the cast. Charlotte can make him eat 3-4 AB slashes, Genjuro gets raged, one cr.C --> standing AB slash, and ggpo Charlotte.

    Jubei can play a very easy game of just throwing his ground fireball and reacting to what they do because his fireball is one of the best in the game. If they jump in, counter with jumping B, it beats 90% of air-to-air moves and as a jumpin, it cleanly kills anti-airs. I do think Charlotte kills him really badly though because her standing AB anti-air will cleanly beat his jumping B, her jump kicks will beat it in the air, and she outpokes him on the ground. Vs. everyone else though, Jubei has solid normals and a very safe, but boring strategy of reacting to his fast ground fireballs.

    Haoh is like Genjuro lite, because everyone fears his AB slash too, which dizzies very quickly. He doesn't have as much mobility as Genjuro on the ground, lacking Rekkas. He does have that jumping overhead looking slash special move that is safe when blocked (the A version at least). And that secret Shoryureppa uppercut special that chips like 10% life, instant win if you knock them down and they are forced to block it. Haoh basically can counter almost any whiff or mistake with AB, get the dizzy, and end the round. But Genjuro lands his AB far easier and that's why Haoh's lower. Still solid.

    Earthquake can effectively control more than half the screen with his gigantic chain and sickle. Jump straight up AB will stop anyone trying to jump in, and his AB chains from a safe distance punish mistakes easily for big damage. His butt bounce and body splashes have a Jupiter sized hitbox on it, and is very hard to counter. To win vs. him, your opponent has to guess correctly when to jump in because Earthquake doesn't handle close up that well. But if he's at a distance, he can make it hell for his opponent to try to get in.

    Kyoshiro. Reach + damage = Kyoshiro's strategy. He has good chip on his Pogo Flame stick move. And his AB slashes are on the same level as Genjuro's as far as damage and dizzy potential. It's just his are a lot slower and he's slow in general. Dangerous overall due to those AB slashes of his, but not as scary as Genjuro.

    Gen-An... Poison Puff x infinity. Every fight a guy named Vietcong? That's his favorite strategy and it's annoying as hell. A lot of characters have trouble getting around smartly blown Poison Puffs, but the problem is that while the strategy is very annoying, it's not very rewarding damage wise. People with good reach can murder this strategy and Gen-An in general. Charlotte does very well vs. him. Sense a puff coming, cr.AB to either trade WAY in her favor or even hit it clean if you were fast enough. Good midtier character.

    Cham Cham could be lower, but her mixup does well vs. Ukyo and she fights him better than most of the cast. Her game is centered around her 50/50 mixup using her Jumping Scratch. It's ambiguous which side she'll hit on, and safer on block (at least the C version) than most people suspect. Her cr.CD slide is safe on block and covers huge ground range, setting up her 50/50 Jumping Scratch crossup all over again. And even if the Jumping Scratch is blocked, she can usually salvage it by getting a throw in afterwards.

    WanFu has: jumping pillar chip and crossup mixup, a good uppercut vs. jumpers, very high damage potential when raged, and a ghetto mixup in run-up uppercut or run-up cr.AB sweep which leads to the projectile crossup mixup (Haoh has the same one too I forgot). You can still salvage correctly blocked mixups and get your weapon back through butt bounces, which though not as good as Earthquake's planetary hitbox ones, it's still very high priority. It just if he loses his weapon and they keep you away from it, it's hard to come back.

    Sieger gets very good chip damage in his Vulcan Cannon, and a good hit confirm into his Back Breaker combo. His jumping C is pretty to get him in, but if they figure out how to keep him away and anti-air him cleanly, he's in trouble. His Flaming Body Splash crosses up, but it's way too slow and very easily punishable to do any kind of 50/50.

    Nicotine's strategy is throw a projectile, and anti-air. His normals have decent reach, but some other beat it, and the priority isn't spectacular either (cr.AB is a good anti-air though at most angles). If you get Confusion to work, it can be fun on your opponent. His Chain move is rather worthless. Even if it hits, he recovers very slowly so that all opponents can mash out of the dizzy and nail him before he gets to AB slash into his "infinite." The infinite is Chain, far standing AB xx Chain, repeat, but again the standing AB comes out very slow and Nicotine himself recovers slowly from the Chain (hit or blocked), so in reality the infinite never works (same with Gen-An too).

    Nakoruru's major flaws are she lacks range, lacks priority, lacks high damage options, and almost all of her moves leave her very unsafe. She has to somehow force her opponent to jump at her so she can pick the correct anti-air to nail them (most of the time it's a jumping AB slash, though it could be cr.AB, cr.CD, or airthrow; you just have to know which one to use to not get beat out cleanly). She is very speedy on the ground (like Cham Cham and the Ninjas), and can get away with a lot of runup throws, more than she should.

    That's my tier analysis of this game. My main is Charlotte, but I can play Cham. No one is ever on ggpo when I check though, and that's if I'm lucky enough to get to log in without crashing in the first place.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Excellent post Strike, if I had a prem account I'd rep u. So now that the tier thing is resolved I am sensing the tiering in this game to be a bit like CVS2 then. It appears that only S/A class are really viable from ur analysis....I wonder why peeps were going on about the balance in this game then?
  • ToyRobotTerrorToyRobotTerror Magnificent Bastard Joined: Posts: 2,078
    I dont think they are so far. And games being super balanced are usually boring.
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  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,149
    I disagree with Cham Cham being so low in both lists. Incredibly annoying ambiguous scratch (difficult to punish sometimes even if it misses because she's on a lay down state) which can anti-air too, super safe slide, boomerang goes through projectiles, that rising fireball thinghie that can be done on wakeup for lots of chip damage, etc.

    I love this game. I got into it not too long ago, and so far I'm really digging Jubei. Also, that site Carmen posted is all kinds of awesome, but sadly I can't understand most of it because it's all in Japanese.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG


    Cham Cham could be lower, but her mixup does well vs. Ukyo and she fights him better than most of the cast. Her game is centered around her 50/50 mixup using her Jumping Scratch. It's ambiguous which side she'll hit on, and safer on block (at least the C version) than most people suspect. Her cr.CD slide is safe on block and covers huge ground range, setting up her 50/50 Jumping Scratch crossup all over again. And even if the Jumping Scratch is blocked, she can usually salvage it by getting a throw in afterwards.

    Her slide is safe on block only from certain distances. Cham's mixup is good, but i think she dies fast to characters like ukyo, genjuro and hoah. Ukyo can punish her after the slide and when she tries to chip with the fireball after a knockdown and hao/genjuro can just AB slash her after blocking the scratch. And since they dizzy pretty fast it'll make her think twice about doing it. Just don't give her a chance to touch the floor or you'll get thrown or swept with the slide.

    i think sieger prob one of the worst in the game mostly because of his speed and when he whiffs it takes him a while to recover. His saving grace is his command grab and if he can land a crossup into his bnb which does about 50%.
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  • MUSOLINIMUSOLINI Joined: Posts: 1,533
    first of all, gen an and nicotine don't have true infinites. if you keep on pressing all buttons and gen or nico do the same, then the opponent will ALWAYS be the one to wake up first.

    also about tiers, god tier would be mizuki and kuroko. though only kuroko is choosable through a cheat.

    s-class. ukyo.

    a class. charlotte, hanzou, jubei, haoh, galford.

    the rest is b class.

    nico and nako as the worst.

    strike i just checked out your ranking. thats a pretty effective ranking. im impressed. you got the shit pretty damn right. this was my most played game back in 94/95. 5 hours or more a day weren't something special back then. though i doubt id be as good as i was back then. some training is always useful. then again, who would i play against nowadays. scene is pretty much dead. and i don't go on vacation that often to play at arcades in foreign countries.
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  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,416
    Why do people rank Gen-An so low when he's 2nd on the Japanese tier list that was posted?

    http://www2q.biglobe.ne.jp/~tuc/samusupi/dg.htm

    Then again, it's from 1999 so it might be outdated.
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  • MUSOLINIMUSOLINI Joined: Posts: 1,533
    no man, gen an is a fucking beast. just not as much as the nins, ukyo and charlotte.
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  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    I still think my initial ranking:
    Top: Ukyo
    Middle: everyone else
    Bottom: Nicotine, Nakoruru

    ...is probably the best. It's really hard to distinguish between A-C class characters, because a lot of them have counter matches with each other. People's opinions will always differ ranking anyone not Ukyo or Nakoruru.

    For instance, a lot of people rank Charlotte high because on paper, she does very well. Very high priority pokes/kicks, great anti-air game. But in a real match, I could be playing her very well, get a Haoh, Genjuro, or Kyoshiro down to eat 5 AB slashes a round, they get raged... they get one raged AB into dizzy, and a full life Charlotte goes down. Her comeback factor is low, and that might be a valid reason for someone to rank her B instead of A.

    Other people might not think so highly of the Genjuro's high risk-high reward playing style and comeback factor and would rate him lower. Valid too.

    On Cham Cham, her slide at max range can't be punished. If Ukyo can't cr.B to punish it after it's blocked, I call that safe. Obviously if she does the slide at point blank range or too close, she'll be vulnerable. But if you hit with just the tip of her extended foot, she'll always recover in time. Genjuro and Haoh can AB her blocked C Jumping Slash, which is why she loses bad to them. Ukyo's cr.AB is slow enough that she'll be able to block in time and counter slide leading to her mixup if she did the Jumping Scratch at the max distance. Her boomerangs go through his Swallow Swipes and can get him out of the air. Her boomerang throws (horizontal + verical), plus her Jumping Scratch takes his entire Swallow Swipe game out. Slide beats out After Image too, so as long as Cham can effectively distance her slides, she weakens Ukyo's dominating ground game too. Her disadvantage (vs. everyone) is that she dizzies fast, dies in fewer hits, and does less damage overall than others because she's a girl (all SS2 girl characters have these traits). But compared to how bad the rest of the cast faces vs. Ukyo, I think Cham does remarkedly well.

    Sieger's mostly chipping with Vulcan Cannon from a safe distance, and that move is pretty unpunishable if he combos it off of a cr.C. I don't think he's that high either, but not bottom, because his hit confirms off of a standing or crouching C into his 3-hit Back Breaker combo does like 50%. The key to beating him is just to learn how to anti-air him and what beats his air-to-air. Because if you can get the lead, his only way in is to jump in (he can't Body Splash because it's so slow). But since he has some jump moves that beat a lot of character's "standard" AAs (like if a regular Charlotte just tries to standing AB his jump ins rather than do standing C, which is more reliable vs. Sieger), he'll be able to get in, score the C, and hitconfirm into death, then turtle/chip the round to win.

    This game defined my mid-90s... 1994, 1995, 1996 were good times. And it seemed everyone was good at this game back then. Used to play on Kaillera, but that scene died. The good ones were Vietcong, legend, another guy I can't remember at the moment. Online lets you get away with run-up throws more than you really should though, and 50/50s are even more dangerous online since you have lag to deal with your reaction time. I hope SS2 gets picked for ggpo public release rather than beta.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Really? Cos I can't even begin to play her in 1. She just can't pressure quite as well in that game, whereas in two she can be pretty offensive if you want to go for the attack.

    Where is SS2 on GGPO? I don't see a room for it on the client.

    Shes top tier in SS1...her and Earthquake...Charlottes been top tier in almost every Sam Sho for the same reason...HER POKES + Priority.

    I got vids look up my ShinDarkGeese account on youtube to find how I play Charlotte in Sam Sho 1... (they are old but its an idea..I play her much much better now)

    You can play her the same way in SS2....Shes the Queen of pokes..
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    I still think my initial ranking:
    Top: Ukyo
    Middle: everyone else
    Bottom: Nicotine, Nakoruru

    ...is probably the best. It's really hard to distinguish between A-C class characters, because a lot of them have counter matches with each other. People's opinions will always differ ranking anyone not Ukyo or Nakoruru.

    For instance, a lot of people rank Charlotte high because on paper, she does very well. Very high priority pokes/kicks, great anti-air game. But in a real match, I could be playing her very well, get a Haoh, Genjuro, or Kyoshiro down to eat 5 AB slashes a round, they get raged... they get one raged AB into dizzy, and a full life Charlotte goes down. Her comeback factor is low, and that might be a valid reason for someone to rank her B instead of A.

    Other people might not think so highly of the Genjuro's high risk-high reward playing style and comeback factor and would rate him lower. Valid too.

    On Cham Cham, her slide at max range can't be punished. If Ukyo can't cr.B to punish it after it's blocked, I call that safe. Obviously if she does the slide at point blank range or too close, she'll be vulnerable. But if you hit with just the tip of her extended foot, she'll always recover in time. Genjuro and Haoh can AB her blocked C Jumping Slash, which is why she loses bad to them. Ukyo's cr.AB is slow enough that she'll be able to block in time and counter slide leading to her mixup if she did the Jumping Scratch at the max distance. Her boomerangs go through his Swallow Swipes and can get him out of the air. Her boomerang throws (horizontal + verical), plus her Jumping Scratch takes his entire Swallow Swipe game out. Slide beats out After Image too, so as long as Cham can effectively distance her slides, she weakens Ukyo's dominating ground game too. Her disadvantage (vs. everyone) is that she dizzies fast, dies in fewer hits, and does less damage overall than others because she's a girl (all SS2 girl characters have these traits). But compared to how bad the rest of the cast faces vs. Ukyo, I think Cham does remarkedly well.

    Sieger's mostly chipping with Vulcan Cannon from a safe distance, and that move is pretty unpunishable if he combos it off of a cr.C. I don't think he's that high either, but not bottom, because his hit confirms off of a standing or crouching C into his 3-hit Back Breaker combo does like 50%. The key to beating him is just to learn how to anti-air him and what beats his air-to-air. Because if you can get the lead, his only way in is to jump in (he can't Body Splash because it's so slow). But since he has some jump moves that beat a lot of character's "standard" AAs (like if a regular Charlotte just tries to standing AB his jump ins rather than do standing C, which is more reliable vs. Sieger), he'll be able to get in, score the C, and hitconfirm into death, then turtle/chip the round to win.

    This game defined my mid-90s... 1994, 1995, 1996 were good times. And it seemed everyone was good at this game back then. Used to play on Kaillera, but that scene died. The good ones were Vietcong, legend, another guy I can't remember at the moment. Online lets you get away with run-up throws more than you really should though, and 50/50s are even more dangerous online since you have lag to deal with your reaction time. I hope SS2 gets picked for ggpo public release rather than beta.


    With the Anthology coming out Strike dont worry Sam Sho II will be revived...

    I will be holding tournaments for it and I think one will happen at MWC..

    -Dark Geese
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    When the game comes out for live im picking it up for sure, im thinking of using one of the ninjas or whoever is a counter match for Ukyo.
  • ShinBlankaShinBlanka 神Blanka Joined: Posts: 7,165 mod
    Why do people rank Gen-An so low when he's 2nd on the Japanese tier list that was posted?

    http://www2q.biglobe.ne.jp/~tuc/samusupi/dg.htm

    Then again, it's from 1999 so it might be outdated.

    Shut up man! Don't tell people about gen an! The rankings posted throughout this thread don't sound right to me! You see I'm old enough to remember playing ss2 in the arcades and ukyo was the best, charlotte wasn't 2nd! Both ninjas are better than her imo. Oh shit I fell into this bullshit trying to make a tier list with people that didn't play the game. No one wants to play/learn how to play a game with the worst character, but atleast play the game 1st! I aint telling ya'll shit in this thread, but I will gladly play anyone on ggpo or nfba p2p and show them how to play! I would rather show you how to play than talk about it!
    (FinalRound) A staple in the Fighting Game Community!
    New FR site: http://www.finalround.org
    Rest in Peace: To my MOMMA , Auntie Toosie, Uncle Thon, Craig Dufour "MAXIMUS" and Brian "Mummy-B" Graham and my 2 unborn children.
  • CarmenCarmen 三十六計,走為上策 Joined: Posts: 684
    Quick question: how to do the unarmed weapon grabs in this game and in the original?
    "老外的LEI很烦人"
    "yea get rid of that tekken three habit of using lei"

    "还是换人吧"

    "你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"

  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Half-circle forward (no button) while weaponless in this game. Don't know about SS1.
  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    Vids plz....thank ya.
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • ShinBlankaShinBlanka 神Blanka Joined: Posts: 7,165 mod
    I do think both ninja's are better than charlotte, but she's is top tier. I think there are 5 top tier characters in ss2. No character sucks in ss2 imo. Everyone has ways to attack you and win. Gen-an is 2nd tier, along with everyone not the ukyo, hanzo, charlotte, galford, sieger! Those are the top tier imo. I know ukyo is 1st, but the others are prolly tied for 2nd depending on the skill level of the player. Charlotte is the easiest to use out of all of them, but the others have more tricky shit they can use. She is the chun li of ss2 imo.
    (FinalRound) A staple in the Fighting Game Community!
    New FR site: http://www.finalround.org
    Rest in Peace: To my MOMMA , Auntie Toosie, Uncle Thon, Craig Dufour "MAXIMUS" and Brian "Mummy-B" Graham and my 2 unborn children.
  • CarmenCarmen 三十六計,走為上策 Joined: Posts: 684
    Quick question: how to do the unarmed weapon grabs in this game and in the original?

    I've also found out it can be done just by running at an opponent (though it seems to be luck-based, as opposed to the normal weapons grab which always works provided the timing is right. STILL have no idea what is in the first game.

    EDIT: Geese, nice SS vids there!
    "老外的LEI很烦人"
    "yea get rid of that tekken three habit of using lei"

    "还是换人吧"

    "你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ukyo is good because he can punish a lot of stuff that really shouldn't be punishable, and he has the best fb in the game. The only thing he really lacks is the high damage some of the other characters can dish out, but again, the fact that he can punish you just for poking at him more than makes up for that. He probably has the fastest low AB punisher in the game. He can also runaway, rushdown or play high/low mixup games.

    IMO charlotte and jubei can fight him, but they still lose for the most part. Charlotte has long reaching fast normals and a really good j.AB. Jubei has the second best fb in the game, and the best jump in with j.A or j.B. I think Haohmaru does ok too since if you mess up, you're practically dead if he hits you.

    Tier list would probably be something like:

    Top:
    ukyo
    .
    .
    .
    Charlotte

    high:
    jubei
    hao
    genjuro* (I think he's a very high risk character and could be either high or mid)

    mid:
    galford
    hanzo
    gen an
    kyoshiro
    Earthquake
    nicotine

    Low:
    Nak
    cham cham
    wan fu
    Sieger

    Outside of ukyo and charlotte, i think the tiers are a little closer than they seem just because the game is full of gimmicky strategies. Everyone has sort of a fair chance at winning if you can get their gimmicks to work in disadvantaged matchups.

    Weird, Wan-Fu should be top. I know Wan-Fu sucks compared to the Samurai Spirits/Shodown 1 version but he's still a top character in this game.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Wow sorry I been away from this thread for a while guys...I been busy now I'm trying 2 get back on cycle etc..

    Carmen- Thanks for the props..which vids of mine are you looking at? I got vids all over lol.

    I agree with Larrys synopsis he makes good points about SS2.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This thread should be moved to the main section, since it is coming out on live anyways so it should get more attention.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    This thread should be moved to the main section, since it is coming out on live anyways so it should get more attention.

    I agree..but lets give it some more time..esp. w/ MWC coming this weekend and we anticipate having a Sam Sho II tournament at it..

    Should we have it guys I will post up the vids when I get back!

    -Dark Geese
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 2,023
    I just played this game competitively last night and..... it's not as good as I remember it when I was younger.

    The damage in the game is so inconsistent to the point that it's almost random.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Its a bit like SF2 in that respect, still good but the random factor is a bit unusual.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 2,023
    Unusual is putting it lightly.

    Screwed up is a better term.

    Sometimes Ukyos/Haohmarus/Genjuros Hard slash takes off 50% life
    Sometimes when the opponent's life is low, it seriously takes off like 5% life

    One time my opponent had about 0.5cm of life (about 3% life left) and Genjuro's throw took off about 1% life, and my opponent killed me.
    The only consistent throw is Genan's knee bash, which takes off a ton
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