Official Samurai Shodown II Thread

2»

Comments

  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Unusual is putting it lightly.

    Screwed up is a better term.

    Sometimes Ukyos/Haohmarus/Genjuros Hard slash takes off 50% life
    Sometimes when the opponent's life is low, it seriously takes off like 5% life

    One time my opponent had about 0.5cm of life (about 3% life left) and Genjuro's throw took off about 1% life, and my opponent killed me.
    The only consistent throw is Genan's knee bash, which takes off a ton

    The game has damage modifiers that give "seemingly random damage". Counter hits, at what point in the move you were hit etc. determine the damage output. Kinda like hitting a dp deep vs hitting it at the apex. But most of the high damage you see is most likely during some counter hit situation.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 2,023
    Yea, I kinda figured it was something like that, but I think that is more noticible when your opponent/yourself is at max life. At lower life, even with that counter system, I think there is damage scaling.

    There is throw damage scaling also, except with holds, I think (?)
  • rush downrush down AKA AAKurtz Joined: Posts: 1,019
    So anyone know when this is supposed to be on XBL? Might get into it before HD comes out.
    SSF4: Gen, Hawk, Gouken
    3s: Ibuki, Q, Elena
    BLazBLue: Litchi
    MvC2: Rogue, Sent, Blackheart
  • MrArcadePerfectMrArcadePerfect Leo Player! Joined: Posts: 480
    So anyone know when this is supposed to be on XBL? Might get into it before HD comes out.

    it came out this morning on XBLA
    Soul Calibur IV - Zasalamel
    Tekken 6 - Leo, King, Law, Lee, Kazuya, Murduk & Migual

    STREET FIGHTER 2 will never be the same :(. blame HD SHITMIX
  • m216xlegendxm216xlegendx samsho cluck Joined: Posts: 380
    well first of all, best 3 characters are charlot,genan,ukyo. In asia samsho2 is taken very seriously,Kinda like sf2 in usa. Get any knowledge you can from asian poeple. I have a online buddy named hunj. Hunj is from china, he is about 35, he has played ss2 since it came out. Since he moved to usa he has'nt found any one who can beat him. and the funny part is the best guy he has played in usa was also from china living inn usa,LOL.

    According to hunj ukyo,charlot and genan are illegal inn tournaments is asia. I dont know why genan is top tier , its possible cause his projectile that stuns, not to mention he has reach. If you cant see why ukyo and charlot are good then you have'nt played ss2 long enough. But genan is ushually the person people don't think is top tier, trust me in the hands of an expert he is very very good. I suck at ss2 so i use top tier only :) So don't not use ukyo,charlot,genan . But just know those 3 are better than any other character by far. And if you play other characters with them you are at advantage.

    every one else is as good as each other.
    You couldnt beat the shi& out a bag of shi%.
  • Blake&WhiteBlake&White keepin' it stylish Joined: Posts: 2,099
    I propose Hanzo > Galford. I don't think they're equally good.
    MAGNETO! WELCOME TO DIE
  • m216xlegendxm216xlegendx samsho cluck Joined: Posts: 380
    well every one else is close to each other, but no huge advantage. He does'nt know English well so thats actuly a quote :)
    You couldnt beat the shi& out a bag of shi%.
  • makstaksmakstaks Joined: Posts: 176
    Half-circle forward (no button) while weaponless in this game. Don't know about SS1.

    You do this with a weapon as well but the timing has to be perfect. Ever notice the knock-back animation where your opponent is kinda frozen for a second? Thats it right there.



    I actually helped balance, tune, design with SNK way back in the day when they were in Torrance. Japan implemented almost all suggestions by the time Samurai Showdown 2 showed up. The whole fighting game system came here from the USA. Running, rolling, back dash, back dash into run, small hops, ducking, multi-part throws (sieger), etc, etc, etc. I think its practically perfect and definitely ahead of all other games :bgrin:

    I can go on and on about this experience, it was great. But anyway i'll let you guys know one thing. We balanced it for at least 4 months and right from the start Ukyo was strong. I tried everything i could but japan wouldn't tune him. We sent the same suggestions every time and for every build...no change. I guess someone there loved him or just didn't agree. There were a few little things left but ukyo was the big one. And it only takes a small tweak to even ukyo out!!! Other than that...fantastic balance IMO. I have a different theory on balance and i'll share later.


    You guys should have seen Samurai Showdown 1. It was really bad at first and the damage was ridiculous :rofl: . There used to be 75% slashes. It was like bushido blade.
  • makstaksmakstaks Joined: Posts: 176
    And it only takes a small tweak to even ukyo out!!! Other than that...fantastic balance IMO. I have a different theory on balance and i'll share later.

    I just had this talk with jchensor so i'll get this off my chest now. hopefully i can articulate this well enough :bgrin:


    BALANCE

    Don't just think about our traditional "Character Tiers", lets consider the concept of "Player Tiers". In other words, the level of mastery YOU have over your chosen character and all the particular nuances of the game. Lets say there's 5.


    Tier 1 (You are a complete beginner with your chosen character)
    Tier 2
    Tier 3
    Tier 4
    Tier 5 (Daigo/Tomo/Valle/Choi level. Top ten at national tournies)


    Ukyo is beatable if you are a Tier 4 player with your particular character. I mained 8 characters and beat the best Ukyos in town with all of them. Matches become very even at the highest levels of play (ex. Tier 4 vs Tier 4). That's why "character tiers" are argued so much with this game.

    The problem with Ukyo is that it was too easy to understand him and jump up in the Player Tiers! After a month of play, an Ukyo player could be Tier 3 but everyone else is barely scratching Tier 2 with their characters. That Ukyo is owning everyone and thats the big problem with him. He's beatable at highest tiers but other than that he is godly :rofl:


    The killer thing about this game is that i've seen 50 game win streaks with almost every character...including nakoruru and nicotine (nic was really impressive). Thats great balance. This is because of player tiers, not character tiers.
  • NEBULOSONEBULOSO Joined: Posts: 275
    I actually helped balance, tune, design with SNK way back in the day when they were in Torrance. Japan implemented almost all suggestions by the time Samurai Showdown 2 showed up. The whole fighting game system came here from the USA. Running, rolling, back dash, back dash into run, small hops, ducking, multi-part throws (sieger), etc, etc, etc. I think its practically perfect and definitely ahead of all other games :bgrin:

    So did you help out on either SS3 & 4?
    I was just curious as to why SNK did such a drastic change with the mechanics or the set-up.. Especially when 2 is so damn GREAT!

    Like DJames with WeaponLord and Hyper Fighting, and Atari with Rage, it looks like the US had more to do with actually putting more or trying different ideas when designing 2d fighting games.. That's good to know that SNK-J actually implemented most of your ideas/suggestions. :tup:

    And like you, myself and Kazuya_nb (from Heavenly Spirits) base the Tiers on the individual player, rather than a specific character..
    ОМРАЧЕННЫЙ ЛЕОПАРД
  • makstaksmakstaks Joined: Posts: 176
    So did you help out on either SS3 & 4?
    I was just curious as to why SNK did such a drastic change with the mechanics or the set-up.. Especially when 2 is so damn GREAT!

    I went to work for Sega. SS2 and KOF95 were the last games i helped on. SNK would sometimes take our ideas and really run away with it. I think the bust/slash system is one example. World Heroes 2 is another. Chad aka GameLord brought myself and a friend named alex to critique World Heroes....so it all started with WH1. I suggested J.carn to have the ability to reflect projectiles. But they gave all characters the ability in WH2! Things like that would happen.

    Oh, Mudman is 100% designed here in the US by one of the product managers. I've seen some AV's so maybe they would like to know that :)

    Like DJames with WeaponLord and Hyper Fighting, and Atari with Rage, it looks like the US had more to do with actually putting more or trying different ideas when designing 2d fighting games.. That's good to know that SNK-J actually implemented most of your ideas/suggestions. :tup:

    I worked with james in 2000. You can't tell online just how hilarious and fun it is to work with him. Brilliant!

    Yeah, japan kept sticking with basic design back then. I would like to say we helped change the philosophy behind that. Its hard to compete with SF2 based on solid gameplay. Especially considering the track record at the time was AOF, FF, and WH. But you can beat them on character design...i feel like SF characters are bland. So i always thought snk should give characters alot of personality. Make a sound when you attack, stylish moves, win poses, attitude, etc. The way to compete is to make fans of characters.

    I always believed that fighting games should focus more on innovating character designs instead of innovating fighting game systems. In that way each character is more unique and each person has more pride in playing their main'd character. Overdoing the system alienates the mass audience and leads to exploiting the system....like custom combos in SF Alpha series or the overdone system in Guilty Gear. GG is too complicated for me to enjoy but i love the character designs. Venom is like the pinnacle of character design to me!


    And like you, myself and Kazuya_nb (from Heavenly Spirits) base the Tiers on the individual player, rather than a specific character..

    Its funny when someone starts owning with a character that everyone thought sucked....then the tiers get argued all over again. LOL. We had that all the time in SS2. Jubei, charlotte, genan, hanzo, ukyo, and kyoshiro all had their time at the top :rofl:
  • makstaksmakstaks Joined: Posts: 176
    You do this with a weapon as well but the timing has to be perfect. Ever notice the knock-back animation where your opponent is kinda frozen for a second? Thats it right there.

    Oops. Just to clarify, the Parry in Samurai Showdown II is to block at the very last second....not a half circle back. You can tap or hold back to get it off :sweat:


    I suck bad at this game now. Its been so long :sad:
  • danomightydanomighty WTFSRK Joined: Posts: 1,346
    Dude you help make Kof 95 and Sam Sho 2? you should write an article about this!:cool:
    I was hung over from both drinking and smoking yesterday so to clam down the smoking and hangover I smoked some more...
    HOLD DAT!
    Marn talking to Mike Ross @ FR14
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Yeah, no kidding. SRK is the perfect place for something like that.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • FallingEdgeFallingEdge Unblockable elbow Joined: Posts: 3,302
    For real man. I've always like the SS series and would love to hear some insight on the game. You should take it to FGD and just run with it.
    Microphone checka, swingin' sword lecture
    Closin' down the sector, supreme neck protector

    Extra Fresh League - Colorado fighting game scene
    http://www.extrafresh.net/forum/
    http://twitter.com/fallingedge
  • NEBULOSONEBULOSO Joined: Posts: 275
    Oh, Mudman is 100% designed here in the US by one of the product managers. I've seen some AV's so maybe they would like to know that :)

    Is Mudman the only character that was designed in the US?

    Since you worked for SNK, maybe you might know?
    I heard that Magician Lord 2 was made and finished by ADK? Is there any truth to this? As I'm a huge fan of ML.. Especially the monster designs!! Namely boss 4, HellHound and my all-time favorite: Incarnation of Az Atorse!!
    Its funny when someone starts owning with a character that everyone thought sucked....then the tiers get argued all over again. LOL. We had that all the time in SS2. Jubei, charlotte, genan, hanzo, ukyo, and Kyoshiro all had their time at the top :rofl:

    I always liked that. Someone saying a certain character is "no good" and you or someone else shows them a few tricks..
    And Genjuro's "Five Senses Barrage?" If you know its priorities? Is one of the best moves in the game..
    ОМРАЧЕННЫЙ ЛЕОПАРД
  • HcoHco Ragna=The=Kawaiiedge Joined: Posts: 148
    I have some problems playing as Cham Cham, most notably against Sieger, Gen-An, and Hanzo.

    Against Sieger, I find that I can't use my Jumping Scratch, because there's too many ways he can counter it. He can either do the jumping body slam which takes priority over my grab, or he can just block and kick - > slide kick -> uppercut -> backbreaker throw, which is like 2/5 of my life gone instantly. So I am effectively limited to the ground. The problem is that I don't really have many weapons in my arsenal to combat Sieger on the ground. If he hits me and I block he can combo into the Vulcan shot, which is pretty much guaranteed safe chip damage from 2 fucking miles away. I can only really damage him if he jumps at me and I jump up and hit him or if I get the Jumping Scratch off after guessing correctly. Then he can just safely chip me while I can do pretty much nothing.

    My problem against Gen-An is pretty much identical to the above, in that he can block and do a crouching slash and it will hit me just before I land. Then he can play keep-away because his reach is insane.

    Against Hanzo it's a problem of paper-scissors-rock, with his teleports and throws. When he teleports, I am presented with choices:

    a) Block low, or block high if it's an aerial teleport. What sucks about blocking aerial teleports is that it's perfectly safe for Hanzo because Cham Cham doesn't have anything that hits at the angle he jumps away, so he's getting free chip damage.

    b) Dash back and hope I did it in time to dodge a low teleport, and in time to make him miss me so that I can get back in and punish.

    c) Dash forward. If it turns out to be an aerial teleport, I've either gone far forward enough to make him miss entirely at which point I can punish with a slide kick, or he will get blocked and (hopefully) jump in the direction I dashed, opening him up for a close AB. If it's a low teleport I'm SOL.

    Anyway, this post was longer than I intended but I think I listed pretty much everything that I'm having a problem with in SamSho2. If anyone can offer specific or even general advice on how to play Cham Cham I'd sure be glad to hear it.

    Edit: I forgot to say that this game is great and I'm having a lot of fun playing it on GGPO.
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    I have some problems playing as Cham Cham, most notably against Sieger, Gen-An, and Hanzo.

    Against Sieger, I find that I can't use my Jumping Scratch, because there's too many ways he can counter it. He can either do the jumping body slam which takes priority over my grab, or he can just block and kick - > slide kick -> uppercut -> backbreaker throw, which is like 2/5 of my life gone instantly. So I am effectively limited to the ground. The problem is that I don't really have many weapons in my arsenal to combat Sieger on the ground. If he hits me and I block he can combo into the Vulcan shot, which is pretty much guaranteed safe chip damage from 2 fucking miles away. I can only really damage him if he jumps at me and I jump up and hit him or if I get the Jumping Scratch off after guessing correctly. Then he can just safely chip me while I can do pretty much nothing.

    My problem against Gen-An is pretty much identical to the above, in that he can block and do a crouching slash and it will hit me just before I land. Then he can play keep-away because his reach is insane.

    Against Hanzo it's a problem of paper-scissors-rock, with his teleports and throws. When he teleports, I am presented with choices:

    a) Block low, or block high if it's an aerial teleport. What sucks about blocking aerial teleports is that it's perfectly safe for Hanzo because Cham Cham doesn't have anything that hits at the angle he jumps away, so he's getting free chip damage.

    b) Dash back and hope I did it in time to dodge a low teleport, and in time to make him miss me so that I can get back in and punish.

    c) Dash forward. If it turns out to be an aerial teleport, I've either gone far forward enough to make him miss entirely at which point I can punish with a slide kick, or he will get blocked and (hopefully) jump in the direction I dashed, opening him up for a close AB. If it's a low teleport I'm SOL.

    Anyway, this post was longer than I intended but I think I listed pretty much everything that I'm having a problem with in SamSho2. If anyone can offer specific or even general advice on how to play Cham Cham I'd sure be glad to hear it.

    Edit: I forgot to say that this game is great and I'm having a lot of fun playing it on GGPO.

    Cham should NEVER jump at Sieger. That's the first problem you have.

    Use boomerangs, skulls, and flames to bait him to do something stupid.

    Sieger takes a lot of risks to get in on certain characters that often lead to his demise.

    Being a Sieg player and a Cham player, I had to learn this matchup just in case I got stuck with one against the other.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 2,023
    Hey guys, there are still 3 things I have no idea how to do, but I know they exist:

    -How do you do Haohmaru's 10hit uppercut?

    -How do you do Nakoruru's 10hit cape twirl thing?

    -How do you use Kuroko judge vs the CPU? I know this is possible, because I distinctly remember seeing someone use him vs the CPU back in the day, but the background looked like the background of the bonus stage in SS1...
  • JGD CHAOSJGD CHAOS Former Well Known Member Joined: Posts: 749
    Hey guys, there are still 3 things I have no idea how to do, but I know they exist:

    -How do you do Haohmaru's 10hit uppercut?

    -How do you do Nakoruru's 10hit cape twirl thing?

    -How do you use Kuroko judge vs the CPU? I know this is possible, because I distinctly remember seeing someone use him vs the CPU back in the day, but the background looked like the background of the bonus stage in SS1...

    Haos is HCB,HCF,HCB,D,DB, B and D.

    Kuroko is not playable in the arcade version.
    SsrkHd,df,f,+OfadcR2in1YsggkUuohKd,db,b+Ef,d,df+N
  • HcoHco Ragna=The=Kawaiiedge Joined: Posts: 148
    Cham should NEVER jump at Sieger. That's the first problem you have.

    Use boomerangs, skulls, and flames to bait him to do something stupid.

    Sieger takes a lot of risks to get in on certain characters that often lead to his demise.

    Being a Sieg player and a Cham player, I had to learn this matchup just in case I got stuck with one against the other.

    Sick, thanks. My friend mains Sieger and I main Cham so I have to play this matchup quite a bit. I'll work on the projectiles.
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Sick, thanks. My friend mains Sieger and I main Cham so I have to play this matchup quite a bit. I'll work on the projectiles.

    I also find that Cham crosses him up fairly easy on wakeup with the leaping grab.

    Also, work on running grabs. They really fuck with safe minded players bad.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • arstalarstal Joined: Posts: 2,968
    Haos is HCB,HCF,HCB,D,DB, B and D.

    Kuroko is not playable in the arcade version.

    Someone used Kuroko on me in XBLA. He's playable in this.
    --- The folks who oppose progress in fighters are the Tea Partiers of the FGC.
  • desynkdesynk Joined: Posts: 19
    Someone used Kuroko on me in XBLA. He's playable in this.

    He's only available in multiplayer according to gamefaqs.
    Play as Kuroko, the referee

    In 2P matches (offline and online) only, you can play as Kuroko by inputting up, down, left, up, down, right+X at the character selection screen.
  • Hanzo_HasashiHanzo_Hasashi Primal Rage rules Joined: Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If makstaks write an article it should do a GREAT read!

    Sadly I couldnt get in touch anymore with Steve (from Primal Rage design team), that game innovated so much at his time!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Anyone wanna play Samurai Shodown 1 at Final Round?
  • FoldoutChairFoldoutChair Smiley Joined: Posts: 180
    Just picked this game up. It's fun as hell. But why don't people play it on GGPO? I check both that room and Jojo's occasionally. They're pretty much both completely barren. It's a crying shame too because they're both great fun.

    Anyone wanna show me how to play better? I main Kyoshiro and he doesn't seem to be getting much love in this thread.

    Forgive the thread necromancy but let's not forget SS2!
  • pootnanniespootnannies mr. negative Joined: Posts: 3,141
    Haos is HCB,HCF,HCB,D,DB, B and D.

    i tried it that way and couldn't get it. this is the way i did it:

    :df::hcf::bdp: B+C


    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

    psn: pootnannies
    ggpo: whodat?
    CFN: JawnPolygon
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I've been messing around with SSII on the 360 and am wondering what the heck Ukyo's teleport slash is, mentioned in this guide http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/583618/780 At first I thought maybe they mean his mirror special attack, but then they have combos like this...

    Crouching C, Standing A, Teleport Slash with A (3 hits)


    I have no idea how to interpret this since the mirror attack is C, D, or CD, and there's no "A" version of it so the teleport slash must be something wholly different, yet they don't actually explain it in the guide.

    Anyone who can shed some light on this quandary will have my gratitude.
  • FoldoutChairFoldoutChair Smiley Joined: Posts: 180
    Genjuro players keep raping me. Genjuro dizzies everyone way too easily...

    Also anyone have advice for Earthquake? Picking him up as an alt.
  • Alex X TizocAlex X Tizoc I don't always HP subs, but when I do, I say MUUN! Joined: Posts: 217
    I didn't at first, but I actually came to like the drastic changes they did in part 3. They knew that they struck gold with SS2, so instead of trying to repackage the game, they made it play completely different so both would be viable.

    Where SNK went wrong was with 4. The more 'realistic' or foreign woodcut style of 3 was made completely pointless by the twins, and the emphasis on high damage - the sword fight style - was made pointless by the super-combos of 4.

    2 is still a great game, but 3 is my favorite and the one I had the most fun playing against other people in the arcade. Anything after it is more dead to me than its dead mother.
  • James_OJames_O Joined: Posts: 14
    Anyone still play this on GGPO? I've barely played the game since I was in school, but it's been one of my favourites for the longest time. I wouldn't mind getting like a monthly GGPO tournament going on, even if it's only a few players.. could be round-robin style or something.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    James_O wrote: »
    Anyone still play this on GGPO? I've barely played the game since I was in school, but it's been one of my favourites for the longest time. I wouldn't mind getting like a monthly GGPO tournament going on, even if it's only a few players.. could be round-robin style or something.

    There were a couple of really good american/mexican players playing a couple of months back, but i'm not sure if they're on anymore since i haven't been on SS2 for a bit. I'll probably start popping back in the room from time to time.

    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • zombiefxckzombiefxck Joined: Posts: 6
    Ill be on at some point. I will look for you.
  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    Anyone still play? Game is very fun. Ask in #snkplaymore for games.
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • dubcldubcl Joined: Posts: 2
    edited October 2015
    hey!, keep alive this topic!!! join us in fightcade!!!

    edit: sorry for revive the topic :(
  • DEZALBDEZALB "Yamazaki Nigari" Joined: Posts: 600
    is there still a scene on fightcade? I want to start playing this, i remember playing it in the arcades back in the day. Would really like to play this again, looks fun
  • luckyjimluckyjim Joined: Posts: 117
    I see a decent amount of people in the room regularly, definitely worth checking out!

    Recent SS2 World Tournament at Mikado for inspiration :)

  • DEZALBDEZALB "Yamazaki Nigari" Joined: Posts: 600
    edited November 2015
    Ive been watching tournament vids last couple of days. I tend to get hype over older games and it sucks since there aren't any local players. I'll Def check it out

    Edit- I thought ukyo was banned from asian tournaments
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.