Alpha 3: Q & A

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  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ask him if he could rapidshare the notes/videos in one big zip or something, because I'd like to see them as well.
    I dunno if you're gonna be able to get a hold of him though. His last post was in like 2005. Who knows if he even comes here anymore.
    .
    if yall dont get a hold of him let me know and il ask him over the phone:wonder:
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Just to confirm. Classic/No ISM is banned in competitive play right? Shit is annoying as hell. I'm assuming it is, because I've never seen anyone use it.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    Can anyone get me started on Juni? I pick her and have no clue what I should be aiming to do, or her best normals etc
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    @R o c k L e e
    As for some normals basics ..., she got the same good far s. and c.RK like Cammy with nice range and damage. Sadly, she doesn't have Cammy's far s.SP, but still got the c.SP with good priority. Her SK's are not bad, you often can easy chain 2 of them + a special as comboender. Her s.SK sucks IMHO, so better stay away from it. Well, her c.MK has good range too and is very fast. So another nice poking tool. At least that is the stuff I can remember from her. I dunno for real her BnB, but when I use her once in a while I go very often for j.FP (stuns longer then the other jump ins), c.JP, c.SK, d,u+RK.:sweat: Her j.SK is her cross up and it comes out pretty fast. I hope this short info got you started with her.^^

    Better ask Middlekick per PM or so, he knows a lot about Cammy and her Clones. For VC's there is a lot of stuff in some Xenozip vid. :)

    Btw, anyone, who can help me here? http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3376477&postcount=54
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Classical Mode isn't banned in SFA3 (not to be confused with the CE/SF2' characters in Hyper SF Alpha), it's just that nobody plays them since they're basically X-ISM characters without supers.

    About the Guy thing, there are only two things I can think of as far as the chaining goes. Timing may be a little different if you're canceling a far standing Strong vs a close one, and also IIRC Guy's chains won't work if you're holding away on the joystick, and maybe down also.

    About Chun's jumping short, I have no clue. You can maybe jump straight up and meet her in the air with something (Roundhouse?), but you'd have to be able to see that coming. I don't play Guy really, but from my very limited experience, that match seems to be a pain in the ass. Roundhouse hurricane kick, maybe? Either that or jump and block.
  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216
    TS wrote:
    Classical Mode isn't banned in SFA3 (not to be confused with the CE/SF2' characters in Hyper SF Alpha), it's just that nobody plays them since they're basically X-ISM characters without supers.

    Iirc you can't juggle characters in classic mode ... that would fuck me up BIG TIME :lol:
    always coming back
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I'm more messed up by the fact that you can't guard crush classic mode characters. Wouldn't that give certain characters a big advantage since they can essentially block indefinitely? That would hurt someone like Blanka since he's very dependant on his high guard damage.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    About the Guy thing, there are only two things I can think of as far as the chaining goes. Timing may be a little different if you're canceling a far standing Strong vs a close one, and also IIRC Guy's chains won't work if you're holding away on the joystick, and maybe down also.

    About Chun's jumping short, I have no clue. You can maybe jump straight up and meet her in the air with something (Roundhouse?), but you'd have to be able to see that coming. I don't play Guy really, but from my very limited experience, that match seems to be a pain in the ass. Roundhouse hurricane kick, maybe? Either that or jump and block.

    Today the jump up and block or air throw safed me the most. However the hurricane kick never worked for me there, maybe it's just my timing. Btw, thx for the help.^^
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Iirc you can't juggle characters in classic mode ... that would fuck me up BIG TIME :lol:

    You can still VC them like normal chars, but yeah CH crouch cancel juggles are out
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
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  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    You can still VC them like normal chars, but yeah CH crouch cancel juggles are out


    If it's a true juggle, be it an air-to-air counter hit or a VC shadow hit set-up, Classical characters can still be juggled.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I'm having serious problems with Dhalsim players.
    I know you're supposed to attack the limbs and not him directly, but it seems like a game of luck more than anything. Half the time he hits me instead, and I can't seem to punish any of the spears he does.

    This is with V-Cody, so I can avoid guard damage at least, but as soon as I start to get in, he teleports away.
    Christ, even V-Akuma and V-Sakura aren't this retarded.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    dhalsim is fuckin broken.

    not only is he the only character that can fight from 3/4 of the screen away, its near impossible to hit him when hes sliding.

    and theres that stupid ass close c.mp and close c.hp, which beats everything you throw at him. the c.mp and c.hp also gives him an eternity to hit confirm.

    dont even try jumping at him. his back+lp and back+mp beats like nearly everything you do air to ground, and thats if you manage to get close enough while not getting owned by his standing mk, mp, hp.

    and if you some how got around all that, he still has that retarded air throw or back+hp in the air, which also beats almost everything you throw at him.

    drills have stupid retarded priority, and sets up his 50/50 with his inferno super, which is safe on block, instant and good chip damage.

    and the most retarded thing about him, the yoga escape. half of the VCs in the game dont work on him, since he can just escape that shit although u can reset him.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    If I try to wait, I lose by timeout. If I get impatient and try to get in, I end up paying for it fast. If I sit back and try to hit his limbs, it's 50-50 90% of the time.
    It's actually sort of pissing me off, because mediocre 'Sim players are beating me and talking shit.

    Even if I do manage to get a lead, they start mass drill/spearing me, and it turns into this huge guessing game. If I try to punish, I get supered or stuffed.
    If I don't, I get GC'ed eventually.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Lv.32 Z-Ism RoseLv.32 Z-Ism Rose Soul Spark! Joined: Posts: 342
    This is a very simple question, so dont laugh:

    At which point is Cammy's counter (hcb+p) active? I have gotten it twice (on accident--getting crossed up while using a punch button gets taht stupid move out wayyy to frequently). It isnt instant like Geese's CVS2 counter, but it lags like 10X more:(
    SFA3: V-Cammy, A-Rose, A-Zangief (pad)
    SF3-3S: Hugo (SA1) stick, Yang (SA2) pad, Ryu (SA1)

    Pad>Sticks :lol:
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Indeed, the command counter is essentially useless and far too easy to accidentally execute. It's a shame they didn't just leave her with the spin knuckle.

    Be that as it may, to answer your question..

    8 frame start-up, 9th frame is a catch frame (all three strengths)

    The active frames and recovery frames depend on the strength used. JP having the least active frames and least recovery. The active frames are basically when her arms are spread and she has her fist in the air.

    Yeah. Pretty huge contrast to Geese's 0 frame startup (1st frame is a catch frame). Hell, Geese can even catch supers with his. Geese also can't whiff *after* the catch, unlike Cammy who *can* whiff. >.<
    Let's play.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    That and Sodom's counter have to be the most useless moves in the game.
    Next to some of those reversal only moves anyway.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • tolkientolkien tolkaNo Joined: Posts: 163
    Can someone compile a small list outlining the best normals to use in crouch cancels?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    How do you work footsies with Cody? His standing MK seems to be his only good long range poke. His ground game doesn't seem to be able to keep up with people who have long range low pokes.

    Also, how do you get in on characters who have raised sweeps that hit you out of the hop. ie. Guy, Chun', etc. With most characters you'd play footsies, but Cody can't really do that since most of his lows are short range. I end up almost totally relying on my VC's when I fight these people.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216
    How do you work footsies with Cody? His standing MK seems to be his only good long range poke. His ground game doesn't seem to be able to keep up with people who have long range low pokes.
    Cody's footsies aren't good, he works best up close and at a distance where he can capitalize on his projectile and strong anti airs.

    If they poke away on you and beat your f HK and s.MK consistently, patience is the key. If you see an opportunity, c.MP beats most pokes that aren't low, c.LK takes care of the rest, both combo into qcf LK on ch for the important knockdown. It's not the easiest thing in the world, but the priority is really high on both of them and they are pretty fast moves in Cody's arsenal. Eventually they will get more careful if you start to counter them, allowing you to play your game with f HK and early j.HK again to get close.
    always coming back
  • Daidoji KageDaidoji Kage Unsafe on hit... Joined: Posts: 1,944
    If I try to wait, I lose by timeout. If I get impatient and try to get in, I end up paying for it fast. If I sit back and try to hit his limbs, it's 50-50 90% of the time.
    It's actually sort of pissing me off, because mediocre 'Sim players are beating me and talking shit.

    Even if I do manage to get a lead, they start mass drill/spearing me, and it turns into this huge guessing game. If I try to punish, I get supered or stuffed.
    If I don't, I get GC'ed eventually.

    Well, if you're that much better otherwise, pick Sim yourself, stomp them off the machine and move on.

    Or pick Balrog and see how often they like to trade. ;)
    "What's wrong with emo and loli characters? "

    Not a thing...

    If you're playing Tentacle Rape Fighter 2: DP Edition with the stage set to 'Hot Topic' and the desperation meter at 'MAX!!!'.
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Results of Ultimate Zero Direction 6:

    http://a-cho.com/ac/200607_12/uz620061007.html


    1 on 1 tournament:
    1. Krusher (Sodom)
    2. Tosa (Dhalsim)
    3. VER (Cody)
    4. Kenji (Chun-li)
    76 entrants

    Unsure which -ISMs Dhalsim and Chun were in, I would guess V for Chun.


    Exhibition tournament:
    1. Machi Nash (Charlie)
    2. Sassa (Akuma)
    3. Ikushin (Karin)
    4. YUK (Charlie)
    64 entrants

    Rules for exhibition tournament:
    -Dhalsim and Zangief were banned
    -Chun-li was banned in A/V-ISM
    -Shotos, Sak, Karin, Sodom, Sagat, Rolento, Charlie, and Cody were banned in V-ISM
    -Gen and Guy were banned in A-ISM

    Not sure on ISMs for that tournement either, though I would guess all were A-ISM.



    http://a-cho.com/ac/200607_12/uz620061008.html

    3-on-3 tournament:
    1. Masami Super Hayashi(?, Sakura), Fujigo (Akuma), ZM (Akuma)
    2. Rokko Ken (Ken), Shiba (Dhalsim), Fuchi (Ryu)
    3. (tie) Imakichi (Ken), Maki (Chun), Tabatake (Sakura) // Kayaman-sensei (Blanka !), ???, (DAN?!?!), Igari (Ryu)
    4. (tie) (Team Romance of the 3 Kingdoms?) Magical (Sakura), TOMA (Charlie), Nike (Rolento) // Crusher (Sodom), Romii (Vega), DARK (Gen)
    29 teams, 86 players


    East vs West tournament
    East: 19 (W)
    West: 11 (L)
    38 entrants, 19 on each side.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Crasher has the best Sodom I've seen for sure.
    -Chun-li was banned in A/V-ISM

    Haha.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm having serious problems with Dhalsim players.
    I know you're supposed to attack the limbs and not him directly, but it seems like a game of luck more than anything.

    I have no actual constructive advice, but I just wanted to say this usually isn't the best plan. It's good to be able to counter Dhalsim's limbs from far away, but if you're just trying to sit across the screen and trade, you'll lose, unless you do big damage. Hitting him out of his far attacks is a good thing because it changes momentum and will give you a shot to get in closer, but Dhalsim has the upper hand in that guessing game (which is why he's good from far away).
  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216
    A team of Blanka-Dan-Ryu got 3rd ? Weeeeeeee :bgrin:

    The exhibition tounament has very interesting rules. An A-Karin on 3 :tup:
    always coming back
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Great info TS, thx a lot.

    That team with Dan is for sure something to look out for. Anyone got vids of that Dan. I just want to see how he might fought an Akuma or so ...^^

    Btw, besides playing Guy and Shotos I play lots of V-Charlie since today onwards again. Anyone with a hint vs Sakura (A/V). I meet an ugly poker recently. I can't get sak in the corner for real. That b+FP is faster then the backfist, f+RK and some other stuff, jumping is a no no anyway. Also her SK's are better then Charlies lows. Maybe I should turtle like crazy? But well, I just don't trust that when I lost my meter ...:sweat: c.FPing and air throwing is so so ... Finally a match were I think Guy is better then Charlie and Shotos, but maybe it is just me.
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • Lv.32 Z-Ism RoseLv.32 Z-Ism Rose Soul Spark! Joined: Posts: 342
    Here is one that had me scratching my head today: when are air throws counted as part of a combo? I have been getting air counterhits against the CPU, and when I air throw them, it doesnt count as a combo. For example, my Cammy's jump fierce counterhits Ryu out of his jumping fierce. He goes in his counter reel animation and I land. I jump up and air grab him (usually the punch grab) and he gets thrown (sometimes he techs, sometimes he doesnt), but most of the time, it doesnt say "2-hit combo". Yet I have seen in the combo vids where they air grab them after a CC series, and even if they tech, the grab still counts as a combo.

    On a somewhat unrelated note, Cammy is NOT safe from Zangief if he techs her throw attempt into the corner. Even her punch grab leaves her close enough for him to SPD her....
    SFA3: V-Cammy, A-Rose, A-Zangief (pad)
    SF3-3S: Hugo (SA1) stick, Yang (SA2) pad, Ryu (SA1)

    Pad>Sticks :lol:
  • Daidoji KageDaidoji Kage Unsafe on hit... Joined: Posts: 1,944
    My V-Cody uses this ground VC:

    VC3 activation (HP, HK) ->qcf.mk->qcf.hk->((hp->qcf.hk)xN) reaching the corner, finishing it with kk.throw

    I tend to use this upon catching an opening or poorly placed poke that Cody dodges through.

    So my question is, is this decent? can I up the damage? I've stuck with it because over all it has been practical and easy to pull off even in tense situations, but I'm open to improvement.

    thanks
    "What's wrong with emo and loli characters? "

    Not a thing...

    If you're playing Tentacle Rape Fighter 2: DP Edition with the stage set to 'Hot Topic' and the desperation meter at 'MAX!!!'.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    There's no reason to use VC3 over VC2 for that I don't think.
    It makes it harder to set-up the CC infinite as well.

    The problem with that one is that it's slow because you're not starting with a normal, and it's basically a much more basic version of some of the ones already listed in the V-ISM topics.
    You'll never get to the corner in time with that one, and the damage isn't great.
    The only thing it's good for is Dhalsim, because if he ports out of it, he gets hit again right away.

    The two most widely used ones are:

    VC2: c. MP, qcf+MK > f+RH, qcf+MK > c.MP, qcf+MK > FP, qcf+MK ('till corner), FP/RH, qcb+LP x n (Whiff FP) CC jump LK

    VC2: c. MP, qcf+MK > c. MK, qcf+MK ('till corner), FP/RH, qcb+LP x n (Whiff FP) CC jump LK
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs

    random stuff from a few years ago. Camera work is terrible, video quality is questionable, but some of the matches are OK.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    is lp shoryuken in the corner inescapeable? I ask this cos I recently got a(nother) ps2, and started screwing around in training mode with ryu. I was able to do double lp srk's (a la 3S Ken) in the corner on the ground. i've never heard of this before. But it should mean that if you get one your guaranteed a second.

    if they tech flip, catch them on the way down.
    if they dont, 2 hit combo.
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    is lp shoryuken in the corner inescapeable? I ask this cos I recently got a(nother) ps2, and started screwing around in training mode with ryu. I was able to do double lp srk's (a la 3S Ken) in the corner on the ground. i've never heard of this before. But it should mean that if you get one your guaranteed a second.


    Jab Shoryu can be tech escaped.

    if they tech flip, catch them on the way down.
    if they dont, 2 hit combo.

    The reality of the situation is that you have to commit to one decision from those two choices. It's simply another mix-up for the Ryu player, where he can still be in an unfavourable position from either choice if he is incorrect in his reading (of the opponent).
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    Jab Shoryu can be tech escaped.

    The reality of the situation is that you have to commit to one decision from those two choices. It's simply another mix-up for the Ryu player, where he can still be in an unfavourable position from either choice if he is incorrect in his reading (of the opponent).

    I think I didn't ask correctly.

    jab shoryuken can be tech, I knew that already.

    what I mean is if you do something like c.mp, lp dp, dp again. the second DP one is what I'm refering to. If you don't flip you get hit and even if you do, you still get hit on the second one.
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • SF_crazySF_crazy Acquiring bike money Joined: Posts: 125
    I think I didn't ask correctly.

    jab shoryuken can be tech, I knew that already.

    what I mean is if you do something like c.mp, lp dp, dp again. the second DP one is what I'm refering to. If you don't flip you get hit and even if you do, you still get hit on the second one.

    If they tech the first DP and come out with an attack, it all comes down to which has more priority.

    It's not guaranteed but it's not uncommon either.
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    If you don't flip you get hit and even if you do, you still get hit on the second one.

    That's the theory, yes. But only one of those is going to happen; you must decide and commit to DP'ing immediately after the first DP if that's what you've chosen to do. And if you do that the opponent can, of course, air-recover. If you decide to wait for the air recovery, you lose the DP x 2 (as a combo) chance.

    My point is that none of those are guaranteed, but you'll have most success in landing either by how well you read the opponent.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    That's the theory, yes. But only one of those is going to happen; you must decide and commit to DP'ing immediately after the first DP if that's what you've chosen to do. And if you do that the opponent can, of course, air-recover. If you decide to wait for the air recovery, you lose the DP x 2 (as a combo) chance.

    My point is that none of those are guaranteed, but you'll have most success in landing either by how well you read the opponent.

    I figured as much, but the thing about the double shoryuken is that it is tight. buffer the motion too soon, it doesn't come out. start to late you miss. there's is no time to decide to commit, if you wait to watch to see if the other guy will flip before you throw out a second one, you've missed it already. it's a small window to get the move in.


    now here's the kicker.

    if you hit them once time and try to hit them again because you assume they won't flip, even if they do, it still hits. this is because (I assume) of the small period of recoil you go through before the games system allows you to tech recover. and that small period is just long enough that the second shoryuken would be in it's attacking frames.


    Edit: What I mean is in

    Recorded Ryu inputs and re-ran them, one with no tech. the second with "instant" tech (on autofire).

    back to FM2007 =x
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    Ito late you miss. there's is no time to decide to commit, if you wait to watch to see if the other guy will flip before you throw out a second one, you've missed it already.

    You commit during the first DP.
    now here's the kicker.

    if you hit them once time and try to hit them again because you assume they won't flip, even if they do, it still hits. this is because (I assume) of the small period of recoil you go through before the games system allows you to tech recover. and that small period is just long enough that the second shoryuken would be in it's attacking frames.

    Yes, the back ( :l: :2p: ) air-recovery after a corner Jab DP leaves the opponent unable to block the immediate second DP. However, the forward air-recovery (:r: :2p:) allows you to block in time. Granted, it's a quick :r: :2p: :l:
    motion, but it's not difficult. This this type of recovery can also be used to escape situations such as Akuma's corner, post VC standing Jab-> vertical jumping Short to CC series and probably his (non-vc) corner Fierce Demon Flip grab-> Fierce Goushoryu combo.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    bleh, I'll just take your word for it. it was only something like 7 extra points in the end. but I did those by buffering on the way down i didn't press punch until I recovered otherwise it doesn't come out. commit free =)

    now on to something else.

    1.)sometimes I see things that shouldn't combo (like a non-meaty cr.mp, cr.mk) actually comboing/linking. Is this a counter hit only thing or is distance and hit boxes invovled.

    1.b)I also see people comboing/linking into activation (cr.mp, activate, fireball, hopkick etc) does that follow the same rule?


    2.)Is the invincibility for every character the same upon activation? (assuming a full meter on 100%). I ask because every character has a different personal action/taunt when they activate but I don't know if the invicibility frames are also different.

    2.b) When does the invinciblity stop? I often I can walk for like 0.5 secs through a fireball or poke and VC the other guy. Other times if I activate and immediately press an attack button,I sometimes get caught by the other player. Are you only invincible if you are neutral (standing still) or using the directions and not the attack buttons?
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    bleh, I'll just take your word for it. it was only something like 7 extra points in the end. but I did those by buffering on the way down i didn't press punch until I recovered otherwise it doesn't come out. commit free =)

    now on to something else.

    1.)sometimes I see things that shouldn't combo (like a non-meaty cr.mp, cr.mk) actually comboing/linking. Is this a counter hit only thing or is distance and hit boxes invovled.

    1.b)I also see people comboing/linking into activation (cr.mp, activate, fireball, hopkick etc) does that follow the same rule?

    Most likely a counter-hit. It may also be possible depending on the character, just with a smaller window for the link to work.
    2.)Is the invincibility for every character the same upon activation? (assuming a full meter on 100%). I ask because every character has a different personal action/taunt when they activate but I don't know if the invicibility frames are also different.

    2.b) When does the invinciblity stop? I often I can walk for like 0.5 secs through a fireball or poke and VC the other guy. Other times if I activate and immediately press an attack button,I sometimes get caught by the other player. Are you only invincible if you are neutral (standing still) or using the directions and not the attack buttons?

    Pretty sure invincibility time activation is the same universally. However, some non-charge characters are at an advantage, since they can start doing special move motions when the screen is still frozen. So for example, Sodom gets be invincicible while moving almost all the way across the screen (FP Jigoku Scrape), and most other characters can't. So even if all characters are invincible for the same amount of time, some characters get more use out of it.

    Charge characters can't do that, but they can cancel a regular move into a special. The Vega player(s) in the a-cho vid appear to be doing the flipkick immediately after activation for anti-air, but if you pause the vid you can see that he actually cancels a crouching Short ASAP. Flipkick has invincibilty at the start anyway, so even if it were a slower move, it would be pretty safe.

    Like with the Sodom example, you have to take speed of movement into acount, and also distance traveled. Like, wallking through fireballs- if you attack instead, you may get hit, even if your attack reaches. a) time stops a little when you hit someone, and b), the attack (fireball in this case) is still there, and your invincibilty has run out.

    On the other side, if someone does an attack, but the move doesn't actually begin until after the screen unpauses, or continues for a long time anyway (like 'Gief's splash or Gen's hand slap move), your invincibility can run out. Likewise, there are some moves which hit later/for longer than they appear... Let's say Shoto sweep is 5(5)9... hits on it's 6th frame and can hit up to the 10th, but after that has 9 frames of recovery.

    So you walk forward and activate V-ISM (with 50% meter) on it's 1st frame. You're invulnerable for 12 frames after that, so you can do whatever- let's say the BAS OTG, which starts with Akuma's sweep, which also has 5 frames of startup. Basically, you're safe up until the 12th frame, and he can only hit you up until the 10th...because you activated V-ISM a frame later than he started the sweep, you have 3 frames to spare instead of one.

    But Guy's sweep is 7(19)18. You can still activate-sweep, but if you activate at the same time as Guy sweeps, that only leaves you with a two-frame window to actually hit- and that's assuming you did the sweep as soon as possible, hitting the button on the first possible moment it would register. The attack isn't over, is the point. So if you're off by a milisecond or have to walk forward or something, Guy's attack is still active, and you can be hit or trade. Even if you activate one frame late like in the example vs shoto sweep, that only gives you a 3-frame window which is really small- if press jab with most characters, the time between when the attack starts and when they actually get hit is about 3 frames.

    Yeah, anyway, short version: sometimes you have to activate late. Using quick attacks helps, like crouching Short xx sweep into the OTG.

    Invincibilty time after activation does vary depending on how much meter you have, though. Starting from 12 frames if you activate with 50% meter, up to 18 frames if you're at 100%.(**)

    For examples of time in frames- there are roughly 60 frames in a second, but since the game is played with Turbo 2 as the default setting, it gets harder to tell, I think.

    -Sodom's sweep is 43 frames
    -whiff Jab DP with Ryu is 48 frames
    -when you activate V-ISM, the screen goes dark for 30 frames
    -Sakura's whiffed b+FP is 20 frames
    -Ryu's hopkick doesn't hit until the 20th frame
    -hitstun/blockstun from a Jab is about 13 frames
    -when you throw a fireball with shotos, it takes about 12 frames before it can hit. A regular fireball with Akuma is 12 frames before it hits, the red one, which seems like it takes forever, is 18.
    -Most standing/crouching Jabs hit on the 4th or 5th frame



    **(you have 144 "dots" in your super gauge, altogether- To find out how many frames of invincibilty you get, the equation is that number divided by 16 plus 8 (n / 16 + 8). So for example if you activate at 50% (72 dots out of 144), you get 12.75 frames, but rounded down to 12. At 100% you should only get 17 frames (144 / 16 = 9, +8 is 17), but you get an extra frame thrown in for being at 100%, I guess.)
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    wow, thx alot for all info :tup:
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Charge characters can't do that, but they can cancel a regular move into a special. The Vega player(s) in the a-cho vid appear to be doing the flipkick immediately after activation for anti-air, but if you pause the vid you can see that he actually cancels a crouching Short ASAP. Flipkick has invincibilty at the start anyway, so even if it were a slower move, it would be pretty safe.
    I think the actual minimum charge time is 5 frames during VC mode. So that makes sense to buffer it off a 5-frame Jab/Short post-activation freeze.
    Let's play.
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