Alpha 3: Q & A

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    -I believe Charlie can actually cc his air throws, so that combo someone mentioned earlier would actually be legit...if not for the fact that you could escape the actual throw, that is.

    O_O

    So he has an airthrow infinite? (they could tech like you said tho)

    If anything, free crouch cancel combo after an airthrow? Anyone else have this?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Still no luck on trying Charlie CC's airthrow.I have try all what I'm know,but the opponent still can flip.Even at training mode.So,I think CC airthrow is impossible.(Maybe)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Still no luck on trying Charlie CC's airthrow.I have try all what I'm know,but the opponent still can flip.Even at training mode.So,I think CC airthrow is impossible.(Maybe)
    Of course other people has other opinions, but I will repeat here, this Charlie combo is not possible. Let me expalin why. Charlie lands and goes automaticly into a neutral stance you just can't avoid. It's like Ryu coming down from a Shoryuken. He will have a automatic neutral stance you just can't avoid.

    So the "Charlie throw CC" is not legal.

    If he would recover completely like X-ism Akuma after a high air hurricane, that would be another story, but Charlies does not do this. After the air throw, he will go into the crouching stance. Crouching and standing are both neutral stances so your opponent can flip.
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hm, maybe I was wrong? I remember seeing some old combo video that said it was legit. Basically all non-normal jumping moves have a neutral state, but I though Charlie's throw was the exception.

    edit:
    Sigh.. misleading combo/tutorial videos are always a shame. :|

    A little bit, but at least in this case it's interesting.

    Charlie does have a neutral state after his air throw, so repeated air throws isn't legit. However, it seems to reset the juggle limit. So if you turn air recovery off in training mode, you can do an infinite number of air throws.

    Guile also.
  • SlideSlide Inactive Member Joined: Posts: 3,084
    Also after reading your post I tested today the FPes of Rol vs Guy normals, well they all can be interupted with c.JP into pressure string, even if you don't react that fast, sometimes I traded but well ... I'll just use this more then c.SP in the future.

    I guess after taking your hints in mind, I should play more aggresive and force mistakes. I usually play Guy balanced or turtle style so I see what happens.

    Wait you were testing Rolento's fierces vs Guy's normals on the ground?

    Anyway yeah you dont' want to be turtling or being super defensive with Guy. His problematic match ups have him playing that way. i.e. V-Cody, A/V-Sim etc. cause his options get cut off.

    Guy's moves don't really cater to being able to put instant stops to what's coming at him. Cause it's hella unsafe in his case. You'll find out how much of his stuff is truly unsafe, when you're constantly getting hit with CC infinites.

    Guy is extremely good on whiff punishing.
    Throws actually help with that, it puts your opponent in a constant mode of having to actually move and do something so you can have it whiff.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hm, maybe I was wrong? I remember seeing some old combo video that said it was legit. Basically all non-normal jumping moves have a neutral state, but I though Charlie's throw was the exception.

    ..and Akuma's air hurricane! :wgrin:
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    is there any reason why you can't hold in charge direction on activation but if you are neutral there's no problems?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Dear TS,

    That video I also saw before.I think at combovideo.if I turn air recovery off in training mode,then sure I can throw again and again.And Ryu after Shoryuken will
    automatic going into neutral stance?Or all Shoryuken also like this?I remember I see people use KEN always setup the CC after LP Shoryuken then crouch MP,CC's
    FP.

    Thank you.
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Both Ryu's Shoryuken and Chalie/Guile's air throws (PP for Charlie, KK for Guile) have a neutral state after them. The difference with those 2 air throws, though, is that they reset the corner juggle limit. So without air recoveries, it's just counted as 1 juggle in the corner, over and over. With Ryu, and pretty much every other juggle in the corner, you're only allowed to hit them with one juggle after they're already in the air, like normal.

    HOWEEEEEVER. If that were strictly true, you would be able to air throw someone, they would air recover afterwards and air throw them again and either

    A) They get to recover again, or
    B) The corner juggle limit rule is broken, but the limit on air recoveries stay, so you can keep throwing them, since they used up their one air recovery.

    Neither one of those things happens. When you air throw someone, and they recover, and you air throw them again...that's it. You can't hit them again, and they can't flip again, either. They become invincible on the way down, and you can't hit them again until they stand up.


    To actually answer your question, you can cancel most neutral states when V-ISM is active. So while you normally couldn't do a crouching attack after a Shoryuken without them being able to escape in between, it works for V-ISM characters during VCs.
    is there any reason why you can't hold in charge direction on activation but if you are neutral there's no problems?

    Probably because Capcom hates Charlie. I can't think of anything really abusive you could do with it, so it's probably just an oversight on Capcom's part...when you activate V-ISM, it resets the state of whatever you were doing before, and just like you would stop crouching and stand up if you activated while crouching, I guess it just cancels your charge.
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    I guess Capcom probably wanted the charge characters to maintain some semblance of their handicap. So even though, once in the full throes of V-ISM, there is no charge time for special moves, the initial activation prevents nearly all charge characters from going directly onto a charge special.
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    A Christmas gift at a-cho...A-Charlie and V-Adon in the same vid..???!

    Unbrockable.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    That one dude had a pretty sloppy Cody. No way A-Charlie should be beating V-Cody like that. Charlie can't zone Cody for shit since he just dodges all his sonic booms, and if he tries to follow them up too many times, you can easily just VC through it or get a counter hit off it.
    Dude missed a ton of opportunities for hopkick pressure as well and he was wayy too anxious to activate. Even when he landed one, he ended up dropping him every time. If you're patient, the Charlie player can't really force anything on you.

    Only thing he did that was alright was the counter hit air cross-up :mk: into walk cancel,
    :hp: > :qcf::hk:
    Hadn't thought of using it like that.

    I'm surprised V-Ken made it to the final though.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The biggest weakness I saw in the Charlie player was, because of his character, he relied on a normal move for anti-air. So characters could jump in on him and activate, since everyone else in the vids but Dhalsim was playing a V-ISM character. He was pretty good about it, though...he did early c.FP which is hard to VC through unless you know he's gonna do it early, and he also didn't anti-air 100% of the time.

    He was sorta limited by the character. Judging by the ability displayed in the videos, he could have done a reversal super vs almost all of the VCs he ended up getting hit by, if it weren't a charge motion. I'm sure he could have activated V-ISM, too.




    What struck me more was the Adon player. Tried to do crouching Fierce into Jaguar Kick to push Vega into the corner, but it didn't come out. Tried to activate V-ISM in the middle of the third round, after getting air thrown, didn't come out. Tried to reset his VC in the corner, paid for it. And then got himself reset...

    I liked the way he played, though. He was looking good when he got his mojo working.
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm surprised V-Ken made it to the final though.

    Me too, however I liked it ... :)

    Anybody, who still got some old V-Cammy A-Cho vids (was it from 2004)? I recently found out, I lack these since my harddrive crash.

    Btw, merry christmas folks, hope you all had a good time. I wish you all da best for the new year.
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Anybody here can tell me,in what situation can use Sodom's "Shirraha Catch"?Is it
    the anti-air?I have see the faq on gamefaq and just see "When the opponent jump attacks you or tries an overhead,this will catch them and throw them in the air for damage"But everytime in this situation,I only get hit by opponent.....Is it useless?Better someone can give me the vids link if possible.Please help.

    Thank you very much...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It will grab command overheads pretty easily..... Jump attacks are a completely different matter. Don't even bother.

    Unless you can read an overhead coming (you won't be doing it on reaction) it's useless. If you do see an overhead coming, you have better, less risky options anyhow. It sucks.

    EDIT: Here's a Sodom related Question:

    I think I remember seeing Sodom on an A-cho vid use a sacrifice reversal that puts him airborne. What special is he using? the 360+P?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Probably. Nothing else would pop him up like that.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SlideSlide Inactive Member Joined: Posts: 3,084
    TS: Is there a character match-up flowchart by any chance?

    You know, like so and so and beats so and so 6-4, loses to so and so 7-3 etc.?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    http://vegascup.fc2web.com/daiyapage.htm

    This is missing a lot of characters unfortunately, but it's the only one that I've found.

    Some are obvious like Guy, Vega, Valog, Cherry Tree, Spring, Soviet Union and Dull Shim (Oral Dull Shim? The fuck's he been doing with his powers?)
    If you click on a name, it shows a picture of the character.
    One question though.

    Who the hell is Rice Field?

    I figured out that Origin is Gen and I think Mosquito is Mika and Sagat is Moth.

    OC = Original Combo/VC on that page by the way.

    Some hilarious shit though in the match-up specifics like:
    When cat revision, it flies, it dies
    I guess that means don't jump? Lol.
    V Nash "2.5"
    Impossible opposition that 1. We would like to doing being done, the end

    Translation: You're totally fucked. Pray the match ends quickly.
    It is to be defeated
    Others are more straight forward like that.
    Flying it cannot return, the terrestrial excessiveness, the ???? excessiveness and triple woes
    Speed of the foot, other than safe position it seals stone

    Some end up sounding zen as shit.
    Translation:If he jumps or flips, he knows he'll get VC'ed, so he's forced to stay grounded.
    Translation:She walks under your rocks, so you can't throw 'em.

    Some of it is pretty much how I expected though.
    I was right about all of Cody's bad match-ups.

    Some stuff is surprising though. Like Sodom seems to have a ton of match-ups in his favour including VS Cody which I thought was Cody's.
    Dan's match-ups are hilarious though if not entirely unexpected.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • JackTenrac!JackTenrac! Dollar Yen - Level 304 Joined: Posts: 2,808
    ^ how about something in English?

    ..btw..I'm feeling Aism Rose and adding her to my useful character roster. Where is she teir wise?
    Brett at T7- "Bearrama?!"
    ओये! सौभाग्य!
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I believe the last Japanese list was something like this.
    MiddleKick posted it as well but I can't check since the topic has been purged.

    V-Akuma
    V-Dhalsim
    V-Sakura
    V-Zangief

    V-Sagat
    V-Chun-li
    V-Charlie
    V-Vega (Claw)
    V-Ryu
    V-Sodom
    V-Karin

    V-Cody
    V-Rolento
    V-Juni
    A-Guy/A-Gen
    V-Cammy
    A-Bison (Dictator)
    A/V-Ken
    V-Adon
    A-Balrog (Boxer)
    V-Honda

    A/V-Rose
    V-Birdie
    A-Blanka
    V-R. Mika

    V-Juli
    V-Dan
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • JackTenrac!JackTenrac! Dollar Yen - Level 304 Joined: Posts: 2,808
    ...all Vism?
    Brett at T7- "Bearrama?!"
    ओये! सौभाग्य!
  • DSDS Hell Revealed Joined: Posts: 4,904
    ...all Vism?


    Yup. V-Ism dominates this game pretty harshly because that's how most of the lower tier characters can stand a chance of competing against the likes of Dhalsim, Guy, Charlie or Chun when they're A-ism characters.

    I still think crouch cancel infinites are entertaining to watch though. Much hate towards Kyokuji's V-Cody. It's too good.
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  • SlideSlide Inactive Member Joined: Posts: 3,084

    This was posted before. It's got some characters listed more than once. Player A's V-Ryu has match ups like X. And Player B's V-Ryu has match ups like Y.

    Can't really follow that, in addition to me not even understanding the language anyhow.

    Nobody ever translated it.

    The one i looked at for Guy was just upsetting on how much it's an uphill every single fight though. Maybe it's cause he's just so inherently unsafe.

    I'm glad I "dropped" A-Guy for favor of using V-Charlie/Nash now.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Just to make it clear. This match up chart is only counting inside the Vegascup arcade.

    Two Goukis on #1 and 2#

    VER is 2 times in it. With Sodom and Cody. But the list isn't updated since december 05. So hopefully it will get an update now. ^^

    So the list ins't really representive. VER has with Sodom against some charas there a better much up ranking then Sodom should have. So this count's only for the Vegasplayers because they know each other and their behaviors.

    Please read this list carefully. It's still very interesting, because it doesn't show the game tiers, but the Vegascup tiers. (But the modern players there, like the new Dhalsim, ZM or the Sakura player called "S" aren't in there. Like I said, it's not updated.)

    PS: "Rice field" is E.Honda.
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It's a pretty good matchup chart, though it doesn't work strictly as a tier list (though fairly close, I think).

    28 characters from the arcade version are in the top row, players/characters are along the side.

    About "oral" Dhalsim, one of the V-Sim players (???????, Nishikawaguchi) has a name that means something like "western mouth of the river," or "mouth of the western river." And apparently, the expression for the mouth of a river is the the same in Japanese, so translated it comes out a bit too literally as "oral," I guess.

    The thing about the cat revision I'm guessing refers to Nekonohi, the V-Sagat player from the a-cho vids ("neko" means cat in Japanese). More specifically, his VC reset in the corner. Meaning if you jump, GGPO.

    Book Ricefield (best name ever) is Honda. The first character in his name (?) means to come or rise from (sorta) but also means book. The second character (?) means rice field. So I guess the name would mean "from the fields" or "of the fields" etc, but, you know...Babelfish.

    The "mosquito" and "moth" stuff is more simply a glitch. When "ga" appears in a character name, babelfish translates it to "moth"- Sagat, Vega, Guy (ga-i). When "ka" appears, it gets changed to "mosquito"- Blanka, Karin, Mika. A "so" sound gets changed to "The Soviet Union," which seems decidedly more random than the other two- Sodom, Bison.

    If you babelfish stuff Chun Li will usually come up as "spring," Akuma (Gouki) as "it is the great ogre" or something like that, Karin will sometimes get changed to "temporary," Sakura to "cherry blossom" of course, and Gen to "origin."

    http://vegascup.fc2web.com/linktugurose.htm
    Character names in the first row, in pink, from left to right:
    Ryu, Ken, Chun, Sagat, Adon, Birdie, Guy, Sodom, Charlie, Rose, Bison, Akuma, Dan (A1 people), Dhalsim, Zangief, Gen, Rolento,, Sakura (A2 addtions), Blanka, Honda, Vega, Cammy, Cody, Mika, Karin (A3 additions), then Balrog, Juli and Juni (A3 secret characters). All in V-ISM except for Chun, Guy, Gen, Blanka, Bison, Mika and Balrog.


    In the column to the left on the main ranking page, the characters are:
    Akumax2, Dhalsim, Sodom, Sakura, Dhalsim, Karin, Vega (claw), Karin, Vega, Charlie, Ryu x2, Sakura, Ken, Cody, Rose, Juni, Blanka, Guy, Bison, Vega, Dan. All V-ISM except for Blanka, Guy, Bison, and the last Vega player.


    Interesting to see the character notes that some of the players added...the Juni player gives Juni a 1/10 vs Zangief....

    edit: damn you lomooooo!!!!!!
  • thumbs_upthumbs_up Joined: Posts: 125
    When with V Cody during his VC with s.fierce into criminal upper is there a way to stay in the corner , and also example : im facing the corner and I VC should I just do a few criminal uppers then CC ??
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Am I the only who found the fact that Mika is mosquito and Blanka is mosquito net amusing? Like if those names are unintentional, that's a hell of a coincidence.
    ...all Vism?

    Don't see why that's so surprising. CC's dominated in Alpha 2 as well, and they're much better in Alpha 3, because they have a ton of invincibility upon activation, even if they're a lot harder to do.

    A-ISM struggles big time against V, because V characters can activate at any time and land anywhere from 50-90% damage. Plus CC infinites. Maybe Ryu has a great an anti-air on A with his DP, but what if I start jumping in and and activating? All of a sudden you're scared to DP me, and I'm getting free jump-ins on you. Add the fact that V builds meter really fast, and I can essentially just VC, runaway, then VC you again and you're dead.

    The only A characters who can really hold their own due to having way too much range and priority are Chun' and Dhalsim, and both are better in V anyway if your execution is down pat.
    The idea that V-'Sim gets owned by cross ups is outdated. People on V will always have more meter, and V-'Sim can easily just anti-air VC you if you try one on him. It may not be as scary damage wise as his level 3 kick super, but he can do it a hell of a lot more often. Not to mention the fact that A-'Sim has no defense against cross-up activations outside of ACing.
    I still think crouch cancel infinites are entertaining to watch though. Much hate towards Kyokuji's V-Cody. It's too good.

    Lol, that's likely only because I throw all those other random normals in there to entertain myself and because I wasn't doing it for very long. If it was a tournament situation, I'd probably just do straight jump LK's after a certain point, which would be much less amusing, and I would have no qualms about juggling you 80 times in a row from the start of the match if I have to. I could gaurantee you, you wouldn't be enjoying them then, lol.
    When with V Cody during his VC with s.fierce into criminal upper is there a way to stay in the corner , and also example : im facing the corner and I VC should I just do a few criminal uppers then CC ??

    If you're just talking about doing the :hp: > :qcb::lp: repetition. Just delay each :hp: so they don't go past you.

    If you're talking about the CC set-up, it depends what side you're on. If you're P1 side, you can be almost to the edge and still hit it. If you're P2 side, you're better off starting it early. That's why VER stops his VC's so quickly sometimes.

    One quick unrelated question. In a recent a-cho video, I saw Crasher walk cancel from Sodom's
    :l::mp:. I've heard that you can't flip out of Sodom's CC set-up if he does it properly. Why is that?
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • thumbs_upthumbs_up Joined: Posts: 125
    thanks!
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Someone mind shedding some light on Cody's invincible bad spray? It's been anything but invincible when I've used it. Gotten sweeped out of it a lot, so I only use it in emergency situations these days.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • ButtermakerButtermaker Joined: Posts: 301 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It's only invincible if you use it while you're invincible.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    So off a reset or something then?
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • ButtermakerButtermaker Joined: Posts: 301 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    When you got anti-aired without a counter hit or when the corner juggle rule prevents you from getting hit.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I could swear people have hit me out of it after resets, but alright.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Anyone have any good V-Rolento videos? Can never find any.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • thumbs_upthumbs_up Joined: Posts: 125
    I also would like some V rolento , on another note if anyone has seen Cody nibor video he uses a whiffed c.fierce or something like that to start his CC could someone explain ?

    Also during the end of my VC (around 5%) I do a s.strong then CC jump with short but they always recover ,what am I doing wrong ?

    Ive been thinking of learning V-Karin but she seems so hard and I cant find much about her especially her VC(so many).

    One last question (for now) could anyone give me the details of walk cancelling? I have no clue on how to do it ,mostly for karin.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I actually much prefer Cody's VC1 stuff, since you have way more options getting into/out of them, but the VC2/3 stuff does do slightly more damage.

    What he's doing is whiffing c. FP so they can't flip while they're falling, but doing it late enough that they get hit by the shadow and then quickly jump LKing before they can air block. He's the only one I've seen use c. FP though. Everyone else seems to use a late c. MP.

    s. MP won't work, because it knocks them too far upwards and it hits too high and too early for you to be able to let them fall down far enough to be in range of your early jump LK.
    With the VC 2/3 set-ups, you want the shadow of the normal to hit, not the normal itself.

    I never use that set-up though. I stick with the jab one VER uses since it's much easier to guarantee. Plus, I see Nibor fuck up his set-up a ton.

    Xenozip did a 6 minute video detailing all of Karin's VCs. Don't think you really need a transcript since most of it's pretty self explanatory. Maybe for the strength of the rekkas.

    Walk cancelling is just crouching cancelling as soon as you land and then quickly transitioning into a forward or backwards walk. You can do this by doing a :qcf:/:qcb: motion as soon as you land and then holding the direction.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • thumbs_upthumbs_up Joined: Posts: 125
    What is his Jab VC ? Its not in the Vc reborn list.

    And il chek that karin vid and if I need anything il post up .. is there a good Karin thread?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Is there a way to set auto-flip on P2? Sorry if it was alredy answered, tried to search already. I cant find it in cheat list.
  • ButtermakerButtermaker Joined: Posts: 301 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    is there a good Karin thread?
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