"Get Ready...Survive!" The New Garou: Mark of the Wolves Thread

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  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    Added some matches between Howard Arena players Wata (Rock) vs Charle's Wain (Kain) . The video link for it can be found here:

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5218463&postcount=280

    Enjoy.
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  • timmytheturtletimmytheturtle Just Defend this ! Joined: Posts: 88
    That was essential, you did it. Thanx a lot Noc for all your implication on spreading the word about this awesome game. It seems to work ;)

    NTW, great shodown you posted just above, Wata's Rock is gorgeous !
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  • Chipp Zanuff v5Chipp Zanuff v5 Tell me where it hurts.... Joined: Posts: 917
    is there someone in this game that ISNT execution intensive? every character i pick seems to be heavy on execution and my hands dont move that fast to cancel and break everything...
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  • DarkNecridDarkNecrid look up = gain meter Joined: Posts: 310
    Gato.

    He doesn't even need feints or breaks at all unless you want to be fancy.
  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    Would Marco be somebody else for somebody who doesn't have fast fingers? =/
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  • Diet SNK With LimeDiet SNK With Lime BUTTxROCK Joined: Posts: 226
    Marcos break move is crucial to playing him well, and it can be hard to learn at first. That being said, hes one of the easier characters to play/learn IMO.
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    Easiest character to really learn would have to be Grant mainly because he has no feint cancels and his combos aren't hard to do. Besides doing his :d: + :snka: + :snkb: (first hit) cancel into his specials/supers he is pretty simple to use.
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  • OmertaOmerta Joined: Posts: 243
    Added some matches between Howard Arena players Wata (Rock) vs Charle's Wain (Kain) . The video link for it can be found here:

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5218463&postcount=280

    Enjoy.

    Oh?my GOD. Those were some of the best matches I?ve seen an a long time. Wain really impresses me with his knowledge of all the quirks in the Garou engine. Perfect use of the black-screen bug for pressure, Nice unblockables and the occasional double JD into Flash Kick guard cancel (which are really hard to do). And Wata is just as good with Rock as he is with Hoku. It really doesn?t surprise me how well he?s doing with Rock, the guys Hoku has some of the best mix-up and mind-games I?ve seen in HA matches, so it?s a natural transition to a character like Rock. He?s an absolute blast to watch (but I?m guessing a pain to play).

    Props for getting these vids uploaded Noc :tup:


    PS:
    I agree with Noc about Grant. Most of his combos are really easy to execute and he has one of the easiest breaks in the game. But just be careful not to think of Grant as one of the slow, lumbering big guys you often see in fighters. Grant's one of the fastest characters in the game (arguably the fastest) and can dash, tackle and dive circles around 90% of the cast.
  • FlikFlik Team Detroit Joined: Posts: 46
    Great HA vids Noc, I really love Wata, one of the best players around in my opinion. I've been goofing around with Rock lately and these vids really inspired me to keep trying.
  • DarkNecridDarkNecrid look up = gain meter Joined: Posts: 310
    black screen bug??

    please explain Omerta :(
  • DivemanDiveman Loli-zoning Joined: Posts: 2,657
    very nice thread nocturnal, ive wanted to lear how to play with the Kim brothers for a long time, thanks man.

    theres something I dont get about Dong, after an air qcf x2 + P, I cant get the timing for another one...do I have to do a TK method? because ive tried that but i cant do it
  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    very nice thread nocturnal, ive wanted to lear how to play with the Kim brothers for a long time, thanks man.

    theres something I dont get about Dong, after an air qcf x2 + P, I cant get the timing for another one...do I have to do a TK method? because ive tried that but i cant do it

    Yeah, you have to tiger knee the move. It works, just keep trying =P
    Do it too soon though, and you'll miss x.x
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  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    black screen bug??

    please explain Omerta :(

    There's a state in Garou during supers start up when the background turns black. In that state no inputs are registered which means anything you do in that moment wont come out. If you watch the Wata vs Charle's Wain matches you can see that Wain uses it many times agains't Wata during a knock down. So to explain this in a match situation, when Kain does his charge :l:, :r: + :snkb: special, it knocks you down. The thing is you can roll recover after that special move hits all the time. So what Kain can do is do his :qcf:x2 + :snkb: super at the same moment they hit the ground. They wont be able to roll recover from the special move this way. You have to do the super as they hit the ground so the black screen situation occurs so no inputs can register for them to roll recover.

    This is really good for Kain since it keeps them on the ground longer, while the ball super heads their direction. So the only option you have is to JD the ball super but Kain can mix in things to throw off the JDing if they try to JD the super. There are a lot of situations where supers become unblockable because of the blackscreen bug.
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  • DarkNecridDarkNecrid look up = gain meter Joined: Posts: 310
    wow, thats some good info I didn't know.

    Thanks!
  • TeaTea Aces Wild Joined: Posts: 375
    For Tizoc anti-air you can go for f+A+C (i think, might be d+A+C), then any throw you want after you evade the attack with the feint since it has upper body invincibility. Most people go for f_b+D because the close D is a pretty good option if they sense the throw.
    Stuff for first post...
    I don't think normals can counter-hit. Only specials, supers, A+B, c.A+B, and TOP moves can.
    Also a not on super jumps. If you have difficulty doing it, try down, neutral, up-back/up/up-forward. Another note is that you cannot JD while super jumping.

    Dong super...
    I do qcf~uf, qcf+P. Others have said that 360 motion works for them.
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  • MUSOLINIMUSOLINI Joined: Posts: 1,533
    just wanna ad a small list of easy characters to use without too many feints.

    rock

    grant

    kim jae hoon

    hotaru


    list of characters that are little bit harder to learn:

    terry

    hokutamaru

    marco

    jenet

    gato

    completely mastering these characters is harder but getting good with them is still rather easy.


    characters you need skillz with to win:

    kevin

    dong hwan

    kain

    tizoc

    feeman.

    maybe kain should be one higher? a lil easier to learn.
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  • DarkNecridDarkNecrid look up = gain meter Joined: Posts: 310
    ^how does Kevin require skillz to win with? :rofl:

    He's like the easiest character in the game to play next to Gato / Terry imo.
  • MUSOLINIMUSOLINI Joined: Posts: 1,533
    ^how does Kevin require skillz to win with? :rofl:

    He's like the easiest character in the game to play next to Gato / Terry imo.

    uhuh, playing kevin or gato at the highest levels is easy, mastering these characters in easy? using the character in the bnb way is easy, using these characters to their full extend is another thing.
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  • Festival6667Festival6667 iTowerBridge Joined: Posts: 509
    Actually I think it comes down mainly to your style of playing : even considering Kain who is arguably the most user-friendly charge character ever if you don't have the habits and reflexes you will suffer. So I think about all characters are as easy or difficult to learn depending on your preferences. Grant is probably a bit easier overall though as Nocturnal pointed.

    Anyway, except for Grant and The Griffon for obvious reasons you'll need (long) feint chains at high level and it's a pain to pull them off consistently. It's also why the game is very balanced : the best weapon is shared by (nearly) everyone since it's in the engine. (Grant and The Big Bird aren't really at a disadvantage though since Grant can really abuse his hit-confirms and can really hurt and The Griffon deals already enough damage without feint chains ^^)

    It really depends who you're playing against. I mean, against beginners I can abuse Freeman like he's the best character ever in a fighting game. But against real opposition I'll probably curse his lack of a good anti-air...
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  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    uhuh, playing kevin or gato at the highest levels is easy, mastering these characters in easy? using the character in the bnb way is easy, using these characters to their full extend is another thing.

    I agree with this... esp with Kevin and Gato using them at the highest level takes skill...
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  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    Oh how nice, a tier for character feints =P
    Now what about a tier for character breaks? =x
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ^how does Kevin require skillz to win with? :rofl:

    He's like the easiest character in the game to play next to Gato / Terry imo.

    Damn.... I actually play Gato and Kevin, makes me feel like I'm not as skilled(and maybe I'm not) as other Garou players.
  • OmertaOmerta Joined: Posts: 243
    It really depends who you're playing against. I mean, against beginners I can abuse Freeman like he's the best character ever in a fighting game. But against real opposition I'll probably curse his lack of a good anti-air...

    This is a common misconception that I also used to believe until I really started digging deep into Freeman arsenal. While it?s true that he doesn?t have a useful dp or Cr. :snka: :snkb: to use for anti air purposes, his normal by themselves are more than enough to deal with Jumpers. His far :snkc: is the best non Cr. :snka: :snkb: anti air normal in the game. While it?s obviously not useful for multiple short hops at close range (his close :snkc: is active at that distance), it?s amazing for any other jump-ins or Air specials. Hell, it even beats out Dongs air super.

    When in close range, his stand A is one of your best options. It?s range is deceptively long and fast for a normal with so much priority, AND you can cancel it into his :snka: or :snkc: super. It?ll beat most hops the moment get off the ground, but usually loses if you wait too long.

    Freeman has a good anti air game. But it isn?t like Terry or Dong, who have plenty of all purpose AA?s. With Freeman it?s very situational. Sometimes it?s best to stand A xx super, other times you should dash underneath them and combo when they land (another great strat), and much of the time you can use his far :snkc: to stuff anything in range of it. You have to really know Freemans distance game when you go into a match against a heavy jumper.
    Anyway, except for Grant and The Griffon for obvious reasons you'll need (long) feint chains at high level and it's a pain to pull them off consistently. It's also why the game is very balanced : the best weapon is shared by (nearly) everyone since it's in the engine. (Grant and The Big Bird aren't really at a disadvantage though since Grant can really abuse his hit-confirms and can really hurt and The Griffon deals already enough damage without feint chains ^^)

    I?ll disagree here on a few points. There are only a few characters who really need feints to be competitive. Freeman, Griff, Terry, Jae and Dong are the only characters I?ve seen who, seemingly, absolutely need to use feints if they want to do well at high levels. Everyone else either uses them to lengthen certain flashy combos and guard strings, or just plain never uses them enough to warrant any cries about your person execution deficiencies. I think with Rock I?ll use maybe one or two feints a single round, and that?s only to lower the recovery on his far D when I use it as an anti-air. And Kain? I think he only has one combo that uses his feint, and it only adds about 15 damage or so.

    Also, with my playstyle and many that I?ve seen, Griff absolutely needs to use his feints. Besides the fact that his F + :snka: :snkc: has full upper body invincibility (his best anti jump in), his F + :snka: :snkc: feint moves him forward so much that he can use it for tick-throw purposes. Stand :snka: -> (feint) -> 360 :snka: / :snkc: is one of his main sources of damage on the ground, and can lead to his air throw (When some see the feint, they automatically jump?right into his air throw if you?ve set it up correctly).

    So yeah, everyone in the game doesn't rely on feints. There's only a handful that seem to need them, for others it's just an added bonus when there's an opening.
    ^how does Kevin require skillz to win with? :rofl:

    He's like the easiest character in the game to play next to Gato / Terry imo.

    I agree with Musolini on this. Kevin and Gato are both easy to learn, but easy to win with? I?m not sure I can see it. I think it comes down to playstyle. If Kevin and Gato were both easy to win with, my transition from maining Freeman to Kevin would have been easy, but it wasn?t. Hell, I?ve pretty much dropped Kevin because I just couldn?t use him. I win more often and more consistently when I?m using the characters I?m familiar with (Freeman, Griff, Kain), than X-copying the playstyle of top level Kevins.

    No characters easy to win with. Everyone requires you put in a lot of time and a lot of effort into learning their quirks and learning their match-ups. Even a character like Grant, who?s easy to learn, becomes exceedingly difficult to win with when you?re playing against someone who knows that match-up.

    PS:
    Freemans Cr. :snkb: -> :hcf: :snkb: beats Grants Guard Cancel :dp: :snkc:. Nocturnal, you're officially in for a world of hurt. Grants gonna raped :badboy:
  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    :u: Uh oh =x
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  • timmytheturtletimmytheturtle Just Defend this ! Joined: Posts: 88
    Gato and Kevin can actually be the easiest chara to win with if you master the instant gauge building, turtle (or not) then wait for an opening and score a Ppower...
    I remember one ranbat @ HA full of Kevins and Gatos like that, that was pretty lousy.

    Another great AA for Freeman, his jump in B. At least as good as Rocks, even better i think.
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  • $hAoLIn$hAoLIn Joined: Posts: 127
    Yo Noc, excellent way to begin a new thread. Props to the contributors as well.

    I was going to ask about Dong Hwan info as the thread was held in the strategy section, but I see that it has already been sorted out.
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  • nGumannGuman The Goofy Nguboy Joined: Posts: 1,212
    Yo Noc, excellent way to begin a new thread. Props to the contributors as well.

    I was going to ask about Dong Hwan info as the thread was held in the strategy section, but I see that it has already been sorted out.

    Yes the new Garou thread is very organized because of Noc
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  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    PS:
    Freemans Cr. :snkb: -> :hcf: :snkb: beats Grants Guard Cancel :dp: :snkc:. Nocturnal, you're officially in for a world of hurt. Grants gonna raped :badboy:

    You're welcone :wink:
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  • Festival6667Festival6667 iTowerBridge Joined: Posts: 509
    Also, with my playstyle and many that I?ve seen, Griff absolutely needs to use his feints. Besides the fact that his F + :snka: :snkc: has full upper body invincibility (his best anti jump in), his F + :snka: :snkc: feint moves him forward so much that he can use it for tick-throw purposes. Stand :snka: -> (feint) -> 360 :snka: / :snkc: is one of his main sources of damage on the ground, and can lead to his air throw (When some see the feint, they automatically jump?right into his air throw if you?ve set it up correctly).
    While I agree on a few things, I'll have to disagree on others. Griff needs his feints to some extent but their use is very predictable. I'm sure you've seen alot but I did too and my experience says that you're not gonna tick-throw all day, especially since not all people jump when they see that feint. Maybe your opponents do but Mine tend to crouch, backdash (cancel), etc. All I'm saying is you're right but you're as biased as I am by what you've experienced, which is why I don't really buy the 'if you've set it up correctly' part.

    As for the rest of your comments, I'll believe you since it's been way too long since I last played seriously anyone other than The Griffon.
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  • EmptyShikiEmptyShiki 絶望 Joined: Posts: 786
    This is really good for Kain since it keeps them on the ground longer, while the ball super heads their direction. So the only option you have is to JD the ball super but Kain can mix in things to throw off the JDing if they try to JD the super. There are a lot of situations where supers become unblockable because of the blackscreen bug.

    are there other uses aside from kains special?
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    are there other uses aside from kains special?

    Kains fb super also gives you time if they sit back and try to JD to Flash Kick Break (3-4 depending on what your opponent is doing) a few times to build your meter back up pretty much..
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  • GibyGiby SoCal SNK Joined: Posts: 742
    Kains fb super also gives you time if they sit back and try to JD to Flash Kick Break (3-4 depending on what your opponent is doing) a few times to build your meter back up pretty much..

    That's kind of pointless since the best thing to do during the super is rush the hell out of the opponent. If they're JDing it, you try to throw off their timing, if they aren't JDing it, you try to get in a few hits to help crush them.
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge The Age of Murder and Storm Joined: Posts: 16,229
    Is it just me or does Garou require fast ass inputs? I can't pull off Kain's 21 hit combo for shit.:sad:
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    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

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  • Festival6667Festival6667 iTowerBridge Joined: Posts: 509
    I'd say it's more a problem of rather strict timings than fast inputs. Some inputs need to be fast but not faster than in most fighting games, especially the more recent ones with all that trend to make games faster and faster. I mean judging from your av you play/have played GG and the inputs in that game need to be at least as fast. input windows are kinda bigger though...
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  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge The Age of Murder and Storm Joined: Posts: 16,229
    The ability to chain together attacks in GG is easier because they use a gatling combo system. So Sol can easily do P>K>S>HS>2D. I can get more into it but this is a Garou thread. I'm getting better now though.
    Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

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  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    Also been practicing lately and enjoying every bit of it =3
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  • Jimmy BonesJimmy Bones U know the deal gee! Joined: Posts: 1,588
    Any tips on Jae Hoon?
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  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    That's kind of pointless since the best thing to do during the super is rush the hell out of the opponent. If they're JDing it, you try to throw off their timing, if they aren't JDing it, you try to get in a few hits to help crush them.

    Hmmm okay..
    Any tips on Jae Hoon?

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5212347&postcount=2

    See Jae section.
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  • Jimmy BonesJimmy Bones U know the deal gee! Joined: Posts: 1,588
    See Jae section.

    Wooops!
    Missed it, thanks to both of ya'll.
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  • DarkNecridDarkNecrid look up = gain meter Joined: Posts: 310
    Yo, any of you ballas got this shit for the nFBA? I wouldn't mind hookin up with some of ya guys on AIM or whatever for games. I'm probably a mid level player. :rofl:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sweet thread guys, I just noticed this today heh. Anyhow I have a tier related question that I don't think has been asked yet. How big is the gap between someone like janet as opposed to griffon and are all characters viable at high level.
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    Sweet thread guys, I just noticed this today heh. Anyhow I have a tier related question that I don't think has been asked yet. How big is the gap between someone like janet as opposed to griffon and are all characters viable at high level.

    Everyone has their own tier lists though I myself dont believe much on tier lists at all. I always tell people to just stick to who you like even if some characters give those characters a hard time. Jenet is a tough match up for Tizoc but it all just depends on how well both players know their characters. Tizoc has to play smart and not let Jenet get him in the corner for the most part. I would say Tizoc has to have a good mix of offense and defense to win the match over Jenet. If you make a mistake on Jenet it can cost you the round and or get you stuck in the corner.

    In high level play all the characters have the tools to compete in any mathc up situation. A good example of would be how Freeman has been winning a lot of the recent japanese tournaments lately. Freeman is considered by many close to
    bottom tier but in the right hands he can take on any character. So for the most part in the recent tournaments no one person/character always wins the tournaments.
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  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    In short, it could be said that the gap isn't that big at all =P
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  • BaSiK_TeKniKBaSiK_TeKniK Joined: Posts: 1,365
  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    good games alternate :tup:

    A thanks and same to you :tup:
    Can't wait to play again =3
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Does anyone have a link to these recent jap tournies?
  • ace_unoace_uno It's My Time! Joined: Posts: 110
    Nocturnal always puts up the newest tourneys. Here's the link to his page.

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  • EmptyShikiEmptyShiki 絶望 Joined: Posts: 786
    I saw a match up chart a while ago, but i can't find it, does anybody have it.
  • KeitsKeits OneTrueGame.com Joined: Posts: 8,765 mod
    id like to see one too. I finally got Hoku's break down! im going to get beastly soon!
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  • Alternate275Alternate275 ★TOURNEY HOST★ Joined: Posts: 1,035
    I saw a match up chart a while ago, but i can't find it, does anybody have it.

    Here you go =3

    garoumatchupchartla7pb2.png
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