• whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503
why do you DO it?

I do it for the haters! thanks for the avatar and new sig ouchi!
I don't have it but watch me get it.
• Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
I watch them to learn and am not at all surprised that I am subsequently entertained.

Older post, but is Lilith top tier?? http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2009/12/vampire-savior-tourney-round-up.html

I'd be awesome to get this in English: http://blog.livedoor.jp/iamddsas23/archives/1069602.html
Casually playing:
SFIV: Fei, Yun
ST: Ryu, Deejay
SG: Valentine
• Violent Sumo Joined: Posts: 1,567
Not the right approach to watching matchvideos, IMO.

If you're learning new things, then absolutely it's the wrong approach to watch match videos. But I've been playing for a while and trying to ferret out new information out of every match video is almost counter-productive at this point. When you get to a certain point in your game-play, all it boils down to is making good decisions, maximizing on your opportunities and just outplaying your opponent. I watch videos to know what went on in them, MAYBE analyze them and substitute what I'd do or why they did something, but overall just to have a good time and enjoy the footage for what it is.
lilith is top tier?

Hahaha....no. That's just Kaji. But as it's been said SO MANY times before, tiers are present in this game, but by no means do they dominate what goes on. In this game, the better player will most likely win. Not the best character.
Now you have learned the meaning of SUMO! DOSUKOI!! PSN id: KoreyKore USF4: Honda
• whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503
if you stay away from mummy, you'll do fine. The game is incredibly balanced, possibly one of capcoms most balanced games of all time. lilith is like one of the worst characters in the game but kaji plays so smart\perfect that she looks top tier lol.

pick anyone but mummy and watch the best players run that character over and over. @ first I would copy pressure strings, combos, AA options, follow ups. Once you understand the character and can do some of the bnbs, you should be ready for matchups.

lastly, there is always jumping on srk and asking kajoq for tips with any character.
I don't have it but watch me get it.
• *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343
Haha, forgive my wording. Maybe I put it a little too strong.
I don't think he cares. And I don't see why you (or anyone) cares what he does/doesn't do.

Why shouldn't I care? There's lots of people that miss out on deeper strategies because they watch matchvideos casually all the time. And although it didn't come off as it, I actually wanted to help. If he would have replied "how do you watch em then?" (or something around those lines lol) I would have told him so and so. I now know that he doesn't need it, and he gave some plausible reasons as to why so it's fine. No offense, really.
"You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
• Judi-licious Joined: Posts: 74
if you stay away from mummy, you'll do fine.

You can play Anak. and still win. That's all Chikyuu plays I believe, and he's one of the best players out there.
• Tenraiha Joined: Posts: 919
Chikyuu is a very good player... Hes far from one of the best. Theres a ton of matches out there that really do a great job illustrating Anak's shortcomings.

Lilith d.LP c.LP x N
Bishamon has a 2 hit dash string... i forget exactly what that he can rep endlessly
BB hood can lock him down with d.MP c.LP
Sas can lock him down with c.LP c.LP d.HK
Etc.
Like - Anak has tools, but hes also got a lot working against him. 23 frame overhead (vs Q-bees 9 frame IAD LK). No Tech hit, No regular throw, MASSIVE receiving hitboxes, etc.

I still play Anak a good bit, but once you put any time into him its massively obvious why hes considered bottom tier (but as was said, that doesnt mean he can't win)
<mef> kajoq your leilei is like knife
<O-Bee> Mr. Kajoq you have very funky leilei. good vs. thx
• what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
Why shouldn't I care? There's lots of people that miss out on deeper strategies because they watch matchvideos casually all the time. And although it didn't come off as it, I actually wanted to help. If he would have replied "how do you watch em then?" (or something around those lines lol) I would have told him so and so. I now know that he doesn't need it, and he gave some plausible reasons as to why so it's fine. No offense, really.
Right, he did not ask a question, he made a statement. You interjected. But your opinion isn't going to change how he feels about the subject, whatever, it's cool.
Let's play.
• Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
I am surprised that Zabel doesn't dominate more, honestly.

Chikyuu did go 13/20 vs some of the best in last weeks exhibition. That's near a 6.5/3.5 vs all other players. If that's not top tier

Nohoho had this list and it seems Kosho is really killing them atm with no Gallon or Bee placings:

2010 Winningest Players Through June

DD has been keeping track of who got the most first place finishes.

Total Wins
7 - Kosho (Bulleta)
3 - Kuma (Sasquatch), DD (Sasquatch), Shimatsuya (Jedah)
2 - bow (Aulbath), Kaji (Lilith), Dara (Demitri)
1 - Atsua (Lei-Lei), Umi no Ko (Aulbath), Osakana (Aulbath), Oboro (Victor), Nan (Bulleta), Ouchi (Jedah), Komemaru (Zabel), Nakanishi (Bishamon), Orekon (Felicia)

Singles Victories
5 - Kosho (Bulleta)
3 - Kuma (Sasquatch)
1 - Atsuta (Lei-Lei), DD (Sasquatch), Nakanishi (Bishamon), Orekon (Felicia
Casually playing:
SFIV: Fei, Yun
ST: Ryu, Deejay
SG: Valentine
• Tenraiha Joined: Posts: 919
I think if you look at it on paper, Zabel definitely is tops. He has a very safe, high damage option, for basically every situation.

The problem is that realistically its very difficult to acknowledge and apply these options in every situation because of the speed of the game and the preciseness of the inputs required for him. Hence why we see so many beastly Sas players vs Zabel.

Sas is just a lot easier to beast with, even if his overall potential is slightly lower
<mef> kajoq your leilei is like knife
<O-Bee> Mr. Kajoq you have very funky leilei. good vs. thx
• *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343
Right, he did not ask a question, he made a statement. You interjected. But your opinion isn't going to change how he feels about the subject, whatever, it's cool.

Just because someone makes a statement it means that it can't be ill-built and thus be corrected? For instance, if a newbie (not saying he is, just an example) says he doesn't kara throw with SSFIV Ken because he thinks it's a bug that shouldn't be used, is it not right to point out to him how much of Ken's gameplay he's leaving out?
Maybe (and that was my crucial mistake here) I should have directly elaborated on why I think it's not the right way instead of waiting for him to reply (which was my plan to begin with). But whatever.

Back to VS! I have a question now. What is the definition of a 'stagger'? The V-Sav wiki says Lilith's gameplan consists partly of staggers into LI. Does that mean hitconfirms?
"You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
• Violent Sumo Joined: Posts: 1,567
Haha, forgive my wording. Maybe I put it a little too strong.

Heck, I even wrote this long post on here about how to watch match videos, lol. You can find it if you search for threads that I've created or w/e. But don't worry at all man, I'm not in the slightest bit upset or offended.
Now you have learned the meaning of SUMO! DOSUKOI!! PSN id: KoreyKore USF4: Honda
• Tenraiha Joined: Posts: 919
Staggering people basically just means catching them mashing during a frame trap. Its more common in Tekken than most fighters, but because of the way tech hit works in this game, its a pretty valid tactic. Lilith and Bishamon are really good at is, as are most of the ground dash characters.
<mef> kajoq your leilei is like knife
<O-Bee> Mr. Kajoq you have very funky leilei. good vs. thx
• ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
Basically, if you play a character with a pressure-based rushdown (Lilith, Bish, Talbain, Felicia, BB Hood, Rikuo) as opposed to a High/Low Rushdown character, you need to learn how to stagger your attacks very effectively. It is important to learn with all characters to a certain extent, though.

If you want to read a bit more about it, I've written about it briefly in the AG Section of the Tutorial; search for "Variable Blockstun Pressure".
http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

• Pagua Sonfa Joined: Posts: 3,087
lets start a petition to tell ono/capcom to stop asking for petitions

this is bullshit
I think some ppl should join the madden community
• Judi-licious Joined: Posts: 74
lets start a petition to tell ono/capcom to stop asking for petitions

this is bullshit

Agreed. Any asshat can sign a petition or hold up money. Doesn't mean they care about the series, or that they'll even buy the game if it comes out. I'm willing to bet that 80% of the people who signed the Darkstalkers 4 petition haven't even so much as tried Savior or Hunter.

/sounding like an elitist prick and complaining about stupid shit
• EX MagMan™ Joined: Posts: 6,697
Chikyuu is one of the best. Just because he plays a shit character, and loses because of it sometimes, doesn't take away from the player himself. He's always been like that, though. He picks the absolute worst character and tries to beat people with it. Since I didn't always play top tier, I know how that goes. You just can't always win if your opponent plays solid enough. It's hard to force human errors on the best of players.
凸 (⊙▃⊙) 凸 Hold that
Team "Get that shit outta here"
So, do YOU know the match-up?! - team gdlk
• whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503
for strictly learning purposes, I never give a new player one of the hardest characters to learn\use. Its much easier to learn the game when you have a character who can properly utilize the engine and is balanced in terms of matchups.
I don't have it but watch me get it.
• Judi-licious Joined: Posts: 74
for strictly learning purposes, I never give a new player one of the hardest characters to learn\use. Its much easier to learn the game when you have a character who can properly utilize the engine and is balanced in terms of matchups.

I agree completely. It's just that the way you worded it made it seem like Anak. can't win, and I just wanted to point out that that's not the case.
• whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503
I agree completely. It's just that the way you worded it made it seem like Anak. can't win, and I just wanted to point out that that's not the case.

to even prove my point further about new players, this is a little bit of what I run into from new players. I probably get a few of these a week but this just happened today.

<shoultzula> pussy ass new players
<shoultzula> 4 games and you quit?
<-59> congrats on spamming low kick combos non stop
<-59> its boring
<shoultzula> LOL!!!!!!
<-59> every player i fight is a low kick spamming queer
<shoultzula> you fucking suck, that wasn't even my main character
<-59> durp
<shoultzula> durp durp scrub
<shoultzula> whats a pushblock durp
<shoultzula> how do i use FB properly
<shoultzula> durp drup
<-59> 10 year old fighting game that requires everyone to spam low kick combos
<shoultzula> lol!!!!!
<-59> congrats retard
<shoultzula> durp, i lost
<shoultzula> durp durp durp
<-59> thou furius
<Komazou> unkounkounko
<Komazou>
<-59> atleast i got you in midnight bliss
<shoultzula> fuck outta here with your sorry ass
<-59> hahaha your mine baby ; )
<shoultzula> and you still lost!!!!
<shoultzula> @ least I heat with you c.lk
<shoultzula> and won
<shoultzula> hit*
<-59> when i was actually trying i got you down to 30% health on your last bar
<-59> that was probably my second game online
<shoultzula> lol, you don't even realize I was barely trying lol

every new player is just like this guy. Straight up crying fest, like he's being paid by the tear or something. New players simply can't grasp this game because its extremely complicated and thats part of the main reason you don't give them mummy. Along with that new player terrible attitude, they lack the proper execution techniques and offensive\defensive strategies to even remotely begin to playing effective.

I see all these SF players walk into the room thinking they can compete. I've been playing hard for 5 years now and SF isn't even the most difficult game to play on the market. Its not even top 3, as to why there are 10,000$tournaments for a mid level fighting game is beyond me. Why can't the players with the most skill get paid in a skilled fighting game? I don't have it but watch me get it. • Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227 Super turtle fighter 4 scrubs can't handle dat rushdown, shoultz. It's a skill thats getting phased out . I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games • OVAHDRIVE! Joined: Posts: 330 Beating up new players I am frowning so hard at you right now. HNGGGGG. You're gonna scare all the new players away, man. Some of us (also) new-players like myself need people to beat up! Obviously we simply have different philosophies. • OVAHDRIVE! Joined: Posts: 330 edit: ugh doublepost • whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503 I am frowning so hard at you right now. HNGGGGG. You're gonna scare all the new players away, man. Some of us (also) new-players like myself need people to beat up! Obviously we simply have different philosophies. I was a new player @ one time too and I didn't cry after 4 games and quit. Granted that I do get frustrated sometimes but I hold my L's and get better. Only the cream will rise to the top! I don't have it but watch me get it. • Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227 Fayk, he was taking it easy on him. I've been in room alot on ggpo even if you tell the scrubs what is wrong with their game they still get butthurt most of the time. I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games • whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503 yea, I was taking it pretty easy on him and he STILL quit. If I wanted to be hella mean, I would of ran bee and just made sure he never had a chance to move. I don't have it but watch me get it. • likes Saturn pads. Joined: Posts: 1,807 every new player is just like this guy. I take my losses in stride, thank you very much. "This is a perfectly balanced VS." - PTX-40A, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom • Violent Sumo Joined: Posts: 1,567 yea, I was taking it pretty easy on him and he STILL quit. If I wanted to be hella mean, I would of ran bee and just made sure he never had a chance to move. He just needs to plactice moar. Now you have learned the meaning of SUMO! DOSUKOI!! PSN id: KoreyKore USF4: Honda • カースヘッド Joined: Posts: 1,393 to even prove my point further about new players, this is a little bit of what I run into from new players. I probably get a few of these a week but this just happened today. Yikes, makes me feel better that the things I'd bitch about were my horrible stolen internet connection and my inability to pushblock correctly against a strong rushdown character in said connection. New era gamers are just as terrible as first generation fighting gamers. "Throws are cheap stop spamming same move omg that move is so overpowered id kill you if you didnt have it" Why can't the players with the most skill get paid in a skilled fighting game? Marvel ;] Jimmyjtran: shang tsundere • OVAHDRIVE! Joined: Posts: 330 yea, I was taking it pretty easy on him and he STILL quit. If I wanted to be hella mean, I would of ran bee and just made sure he never had a chance to move. Yeah. I'm partly just hassling you man. I know we don't know eachother too too well, but we've chatted a bit on GGPO, so I figured I could give you a hard time. For me (esp since jojos is generally even less populous on ggpo than vsav) I just worry that anyone scared off is one fewer potential future players. Plus I didn't see how easy you were taking it on him since I wasn't present. Sorry! That said, as others pointed out, some people are uncorrectable, even when you try to help them. I suspect for a lot of people, a game with as high a skill ceiling as vsav, it's probably very, very disarming to play vs good players. I mean, the game has a wide enough skill that there are players/newbies who I can just throw all day long with my scrubby Aulbath, but then when I play (esp. the first time) Shoultzula, my first 5 rounds start with me being pushed to the corner, and it's just a matter of how long I live if I guess right on my blocks, getting in a single jab or something if I'm lucky. It wasn't until round 10 or something that I started actually getting some spacing and a few hits (and still losing). It's like pre-internet FPSes, everyone thinks they're hot shit because thye can kick all their friend's asses, then they play a wider group and get utterly crushed. • fuccboi Joined: Posts: 7,643 More JoJo's players should play Vsav, and more Vsav players should play JoJo's :v Add me on steam for ye olde Dota 2 - Tweleve3s (hookers and blow) • Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG shoultzula wrote: Why can't the players with the most skill get paid in a skilled fighting game? Because paying 10,000$ to the winner of a 4 player turnout tournament is suicidal?
More JoJo's players should play Vsav, and more Vsav players should play JoJo's :v

I would but each time I go into jojo's room, it's empty or there's only US players (more than 90 ping on jojo is suicidal).
• whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503
Yeah. I'm partly just hassling you man. I know we don't know eachother too too well, but we've chatted a bit on GGPO, so I figured I could give you a hard time.

=p !!!!
Because paying 10,000\$ to the winner of a 4 player turnout tournament is suicidal?

Do amateur professional athletes get paid more bucks than the pro's because they're playing @ a lower level? Pretty much anything that involves a good bit of money will always be towards the highest level possible. But for ssf4, the community is so big that an average game is getting the most money.

Mainstream is here folks and they like bad games.
I don't have it but watch me get it.
• fuccboi Joined: Posts: 7,643
TSF strangely enough even on 100ish ping JoJo's doesn't seem to run bad at all. Even though both JoJo and 3s are CPS3 games, JoJo seems to run much smoother.

Rare gbursine sighting! ggs sir
Add me on steam for ye olde Dota 2 - Tweleve3s (hookers and blow)
• Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
shoultzula wrote:
But for ssf4, the community is so big that an average game is getting the most money.

That's what I was saying. Size of the crowd willing to pay > skill. Pretty much always. But I don't know about bad games, I think mainstream players are simply too lazy and/or lack dedication. And they like to whine too.

Tweleve, I used to play jojo in the room actually but the incredibad frameskip made me quit. It was already quite bad with euro players.
• OVAHDRIVE! Joined: Posts: 330
More JoJo's players should play Vsav, and more Vsav players should play JoJo's :v

I actually agree 100% to be honest. They're quite different games, but there's just enough similarity that I think they should appeal to eachother.
I would but each time I go into jojo's room, it's empty or there's only US players (more than 90 ping on jojo is suicidal).

Keep trying, or post in the jojo's thread (the active, many-page one) here on SRK. There's at least 2 semi-regular players in France, 2-3 in portugal, several in the UK, and there used to be a ton (well, relative to the games' popularity) in Germany.

Sadly I might be counting you among the french players (unless there's one named TCF or something instead)
• Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
Yes, that was me. I try every day at random times but no luck yet. Can't even find ATG or Toki nowadays.
• whatsyoursismines! Joined: Posts: 4,503
this is what I did to hampster last night

I stepped all over his top tier japanese shit like I was godzilla!

soooooo, I got to thinking how we could get new players to understand this game and here it is.

Its a programmable pad basically in PC form. What I would like to do is create little exercises for new players to practice. For instance, you can create a save state where both players are in the corner. CPU is facing the corner, the human player is in it. I can program a character to do a triple low poke so someone can practice push blocking so that would be level 1. Level 2 would be a 2 hit push block and level 3 would be a single tech. Gradually progress it. This same setup could also be used to practice alpha counter timing. These are 2 crucial factors to the game. I believe if new players were given exercises, especially push blocking ones, the entry level for the game would be reduced slightly. If you can pusblock 50% of the time, you'll half as much pressure. Pretty simple.

Eventually, it could go into dealing with strings but that becomes some what tricky. For instance, I can have cpu bee facing the corner, the human player is in it once again. Here, I can program, high\low strings and the goal is to simply react to bee doing her high\low game. Now since the opponent is in the corner, the hit stun won't slide them out and w\e sequence I program should be ok. If you were to start practicing some mid screen sequences, you have to determine between left\right side while programming the stuff and that gets complicated.

however for the time being, I think this program is an EXCELLENT way to practice push blocking in all its form. That tool is incredibly important to have in this game.

there is a video on the link that demonstrates the programming, its rather simple. If anyone else has any other ideas, you're helping new players enter the game much easier.
I don't have it but watch me get it.
• Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
lets set up some paste-bins (or hand out in some way) of basic bnb's for each of the characters

Edit: i mean for auto macro.

I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

[8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

• EX MagMan™ Joined: Posts: 6,697
lets set up some paste-bins (or hand out in some way) of basic bnb's for each of the characters

First page.
凸 (⊙▃⊙) 凸 Hold that
Team "Get that shit outta here"
So, do YOU know the match-up?! - team gdlk