The 2nd KOFXII Thread (debuting at AM Show in September)

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    We already know that they're going to play it safe.

    After all, among other things, they announced that the game will be taking it back to the 94-98 style of 3v3 (no tagging, no strikers, etc), and that the roster will be one that will utilize fan favorites from across the KOF/AOF/FF lineages.

    You don't get too much safer than that.

    As for marketing? I think it's safer to say that they can afford to do more or less like Capcom is doing with TC. The game will do more to advertise itself as people see more of it (especially through future loke tests), and word travels around.

    After all, KOF is big business in pretty much every other place in the world besides the US. Any more extensive marketing campaigning will probably be one of the things that SNK can afford to worry about later on.

    I see what you mean. Even people who aren't regularly into fighting games drool in threads over this "2D Goddess". The only thing that has me worried is how SNK hasn't cleared up Kotaku's "rotoscoping" scandal. This reminds me of how some sites claimed that Guilty Gear XX ^ Core on the Wii all had delayed FRC because Arc didn't further explain that it was simply an option to have and not a standard.

    That saying it will be interesting to as of when SNK picks a release date for this game as its going up against 3 other behemoths.
  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ゆうしょう よゆうッチ! MOTHAF**CKA!! Joined: Posts: 3,569
    Early KOF designers were hired by Capcom. One of their games is SFIII.
    Not joke, this is a fact.

    and so, some sf2 designers are still working with snk.
    Like the creator of art of fighting, he was the character designer of SF2(I can be wrong don't flame me) he is working in kof xii right now so I heard.
    The only thing that has me worried is how SNK hasn't cleared up Kotaku's "rotoscoping" scandal.

    yeah WTF is that I've been hearing it a lot lately
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  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    in the end is just a matter if this appeals to the casual player or not. That's where the money is at. Overcomplex gameplay is meaningless

    pretty sure that this will be a niche title again

    snk marketing sucks, they dont have any money and the casual player doesnt even know kof exists

    still im hoping this title is good. i might have to head to the am show to play this.
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  • WellmanWellman Joined: Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the characters look amazing, hopefully the background characters will have more mannerisms than a goldfish this time

    Given how colorful and purposely ugly the people are in the background, I would hope they wouldn't waste the time on background characters. Now if you have a stage like Terry's from MOTW on top of the train I wouldn't complain. But yeah, it still looks VERY early in the development cycle. Athena finally appears to have motion beyond standing still but the characters we see actually on screen are ones we have seen at least bits of from the original trailer.

    Any marketing that SNKP does for KOF will be small, their best bet would be to have demos available on PSN or Live to reach more than just the fans that are already aware of KOF existence.
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  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    pretty sure that this will be a niche title again

    snk marketing sucks, they dont have any money and the casual player doesnt even know kof exists

    in the US you mean

    im not sure snk cares all that much about this market anymore tbh. what fighting-game developers do? just capcom, and maybe arc b/c of aksys
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  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ゆうしょう よゆうッチ! MOTHAF**CKA!! Joined: Posts: 3,569
    pretty sure that this will be a niche title again

    snk marketing sucks, they dont have any money and the casual player doesnt even know kof exists

    still im hoping this title is good. i might have to head to the am show to play this.

    this is a problem, snk really needs to go all out and market this game like there's no tomorrow, a commercial like that of KOFMI will help a lot
    jae hoon wrote: »
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  • ChopperManChopperMan Joined: Posts: 640
    in the US you mean

    im not sure snk cares all that much about this market anymore tbh. what fighting-game developers do? just capcom, and maybe arc b/c of aksys

    Well most of SNK's releases have been old collections.

    I'm sure when this is ready to come out it will get pushed as hard as the other developers are pushing their taito X2 titles
  • TaygetaVendettaTaygetaVendetta HDR Joined: Posts: 562
    Blowing this pic up, I think the character on the far right looks like Yamazaki. Most of the characters revealed so far have their classic outfits, but what I can make out of that portrait of the far right, it reminds me of the 2k3 Yamazaki.
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  • LantisLantis Can you fly, Bobby? Joined: Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    snk marketing sucks, they dont have any money and the casual player doesnt even know kof exists
    in the US you mean

    Then, does that mean KOF is like soccer? :xeye:
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  • YinYin fun fun fun Joined: Posts: 3,396
    yeah WTF is that I've been hearing it a lot lately

    Rotoscoping just means you use a real life reference for drawing animation (but in XII's case it's simple(?) 3d models instead). For example, really old Prince of Persia and Flashback both used this technique, drawing the sprite on top of a filmed real life person(completely replacing it with drawn art) doing the animations. That's why they're so smooth.

    It's still all hand drawn, and it's just to make animating easier... So I don't really see how this is a scandal, except to people who might think rotoscoping means prerendered I suppose.
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  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    Blowing this pic up, I think the character on the far right looks like Yamazaki. Most of the characters revealed so far have their classic outfits, but what I can make out of that portrait of the far right, it reminds me of the 2k3 Yamazaki.

    pretty sure thats ralf
  • pootnanniespootnannies mr. negative Joined: Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Rotoscoping just means you use a real life reference for drawing animation (but in XII's case it's simple(?) 3d models instead). For example, really old Prince of Persia and Flashback both used this technique, drawing the sprite on top of a filmed real life person(completely replacing it with drawn art) doing the animations. That's why they're so smooth.

    It's still all hand drawn, and it's just to make animating easier... So I don't really see how this is a scandal, except to people who might think rotoscoping means prerendered I suppose.

    it means they traced over it. yes technically that's hand drawn but don't get it confused with traditional hand drawn animation which takes a lot of skill and talent to look good. anybody can trace over an image


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  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ゆうしょう よゆうッチ! MOTHAF**CKA!! Joined: Posts: 3,569
    it's still hand drawn 100% so whatever


    Then, does that mean KOF is like soccer? :xeye:

    I couldn't have put it better:party::bgrin:
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Affinity is just a rouge program sent out by the bot program known as Emil.
  • YinYin fun fun fun Joined: Posts: 3,396
    anybody can trace over an image

    I think it takes a bit talent to draw the sprite itself over the basic 3D...
    And besides, they have 3d animators to make the reference material. Not anyone can do that well, trust me.
    Sure, there are probably some things that can only be done the traditional way, I guess. But is that important for this game?
    Judging from Ash's animations in the short trailer, I'd say it looks pretty damn good.

    And as long as the animation is smooth and looks good, who cares how it was made except for maybe 2d animators.

    Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this game... Here's hoping for Vanessa and Chris(I guess he's dead, but I'm sure they can think of something clever to bring him back :P)
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  • SNK FanSNK Fan Joined: Posts: 396
    It's not the rotoscoping that makes rotoscoping look bad; it's how they tweak/add/subtract frames by hand after the rotoscoping is done.

    Can't wait. Vids should start trickling in from the AM show.
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    Then, does that mean KOF is like soccer? :xeye:
    Ahahah, I thought the same thing and I'm delighted to know I wasn't the only one. You are now officially my funk soul brother. :smile:
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,235
    anybody can trace over an image

    Tell that to Udon.
  • MUSOLINIMUSOLINI Joined: Posts: 1,533
    guy who made yamazaki comment, that wasnt even the pic. are you talking about ralph? either way, in one of the pics we see him (or ryo sakazaki) with orange hair. it looks like yama, but could be ryo as well. glad its playable after ALL.
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  • arstalarstal Joined: Posts: 2,968
    Blowing this pic up, I think the character on the far right looks like Yamazaki. Most of the characters revealed so far have their classic outfits, but what I can make out of that portrait of the far right, it reminds me of the 2k3 Yamazaki.

    2k3 Yamazaki was supposed to look like FF3/RB1 Yama, which would be his classic move.

    As for SNK and the US, of course SNK would like to open up to the US, they just are incompetent at it.
    Most of the rest of the world just pirates.

    My thing is I really wonder about the animation of the game- I'm just hoping it isn't choppy like GG. I can see SNK doing that, and I have real fears about the direction KOF is going in after XI.
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  • *Onslaught**Onslaught* Truly Outrageous Rushdown Joined: Posts: 900
    Tell that to Udon.

    :rofl: That's cold.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    and so, some sf2 designers are still working with snk.
    Like the creator of art of fighting, he was the character designer of SF2(I can be wrong don't flame me) he is working in kof xii right now so I heard.



    yeah WTF is that I've been hearing it a lot lately


    I don't feel like telling the story in much detail again.

    Long story short Kotaku misreported from their usual unreliable sources that King of Fighters XII was going to be 3D graphics on a 2D plane (much like Capcom's new entrys). However as usual they are too stubborn to admit that they were wrong even holding the claim that the game was still 3D graphics on a 2D plane when they saw the official trailer (even posted a screenshot to prove it *obviously it was 2D*). About a week later Kotaku posted that the game was rotoscopped and was first done in 3D then copied into 2D. Basically they then said "Ohhhhh see it wasn't our fault at all, we were right all along, it's just that the game was made with 2D graphics later as our original sources lied to us." This is also why you don't see any other site claiming these things.

    So far the only thing confirmed to be rotoscopped are they lighting effects (which are obvious and have been done with many other 2D games before). Though if time of animating was an issue then why would they have used pixel art to begin with? I mean technology for 2D graphics and animation have increased substantially since the hey day of 2D fighters. I'm surprised that they didn't and have an animation studio do the 2D graphics. Then again I think this probably has to do with something of SNK's fanbase as well as SNK's ego.

    Personally I'm going to SNK's site and asking them about this.

    EDIT: If people would like I will post the sources of how Kotaku progressed their BS.
    It's still all hand drawn, and it's just to make animating easier... So I don't really see how this is a scandal, except to people who might think rotoscoping means prerendered I suppose.

    As an animator and animation fan myself rotoscoping (usually) takes the whole "artist" and "human" feel away from the animations. In comparison it is much like how people prefer to have the coloring done by human ink or cels like in Akira as opposed to being completely computerized. Even though I think that KoFXII isn't rotoscoped I wouldn't be surprised if many games start to use this in the future. I mean most 3D games use motion cap.


    :rofl: That's cold.

    :rofl: Agreed.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    it means they traced over it. yes technically that's hand drawn but don't get it confused with traditional hand drawn animation which takes a lot of skill and talent to look good. anybody can trace over an image

    It still takes all day to do one frame so it takes something. A matter a fact aren't these new character models taking more time anyway?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What I remember reading about the spriting is that they make a 3D model of the character, animate it, trace over the character and the animations(rotoscoping).

    I really don't see a problem since (A) The characters and 3D models are probably still designed by SNK so I don't see any loss of originality, and (B) Tracing over 3D models still doesn't solve the problem of coloring which is probably more important as far as getting a "human" feel to the sprites.

    Oh and Cronopio is win.
  • makstaksmakstaks Joined: Posts: 176
    Marketing the game in the US is now up to Ignition Entertainment. I actually interviewed for a PR position there a few months back and KOFXII is one of their projects. I had a background at SNK so they wanted to speak with me about this and other SNK titles they will be doing. AFAIK, they are very small and don't have "SNK-heads" there. I'm not sure they understand the community that is behind this game. Catching inconsistencies in ports is another matter.

    THE CEO is supposed to be a fan but i really don't think much is going to go into developing the scene here. If there is money in it, they will do it but that doesn't seem to be the case.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It still takes all day to do one frame so it takes something. A matter a fact aren't these new character models taking more time anyway?

    I think SNK reported that it took 12 hours to create a single frame. That may sound ridiculous but one must remember that they are referring to frames that are made ground up (most frames in animations are just slightly moved place by place).

    Marketing the game in the US is now up to Ignition Entertainment. I actually interviewed for a PR position there a few months back and KOFXII is one of their projects. I had a background at SNK so they wanted to speak with me about this and other SNK titles they will be doing. AFAIK, they are very small and don't have "SNK-heads" there. I'm not sure they understand the community that is behind this game. Catching inconsistencies in ports is another matter.

    THE CEO is supposed to be a fan but i really don't think much is going to go into developing the scene here. If there is money in it, they will do it but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    What other games has Ignition worked on for marketing?
  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ゆうしょう よゆうッチ! MOTHAF**CKA!! Joined: Posts: 3,569
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Affinity is just a rouge program sent out by the bot program known as Emil.
  • Violent By DesignViolent By Design Joined: Posts: 319
    no tagging in and out? what the? What's the point of buying KOF98 UM and this then if they both have such similar styles of game play?
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    no tagging in and out? what the? What's the point of buying KOF98 UM and this then if they both have such similar styles of game play?

    yeah and why would anyone play guilty gear when they have super turbo? i mean theyre both 1 on 1 fighters!!
  • Violent By DesignViolent By Design Joined: Posts: 319
    yeah and why would anyone play guilty gear when they have super turbo? i mean theyre both 1 on 1 fighters!!

    Man good one, you must be the funny one in your group :rolleyes:

    on another note, if it was a dream bout i could understand. But if the Ash saga games were tagging so far, why change it :amazed:
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,235
    why change it :amazed:

    I'd tell you why but some people would get upset.
  • Lvl.3Lvl.3 MvC3? Joined: Posts: 375

    i might have to head to the am show to play this.

    Please do, we need someone to capture all the madness.
  • oohappytofuoooohappytofuoo Bloody High Claw!!!! Joined: Posts: 191
    athena's legs are thicker than ash's. Perfect. ;] no, not really.

    IIRC, didn't snk say they were targeting the hardcore fans? Or am i just confusing myself with their other statement, to make the ultimate 2d fighting game. prove me wrong people, prove me wrong.
  • DJ EtherDJ Ether Send them to the cementary. Joined: Posts: 236
    no tagging in and out? what the? What's the point of buying KOF98 UM and this then if they both have such similar styles of game play?

    The point is cause its the next evolution of the series. You do know that KOF started with no bullshit tagging? It's going back to its roots. Fuck that tagging BS. Fucks wrong with you? Stupidass statement. :arazz:
  • MalfredsMalfreds Secret... Joined: Posts: 141
    The point is cause its the next evolution of the series. You do know that KOF started with no bullshit tagging? It's going back to its roots. Fuck that tagging BS. Fucks wrong with you? Stupidass statement. :arazz:

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  • Kane317Kane317 Joined: Posts: 223
    ...

    still im hoping this title is good. i might have to head to the am show to play this.


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  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,419
    The point is cause its the next evolution of the series. You do know that KOF started with no bullshit tagging? It's going back to its roots.

    Please explain how you evolve AND go back to your roots at the same time.
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  • arstalarstal Joined: Posts: 2,968
    Please explain how you evolve AND go back to your roots at the same time.

    Evolving- new graphical engine, new gameplay elements due to that graphical engine. If this game had SFIII-levels of animation, that would redefine KOF.

    Going back to the roots- getting rid of some of the stuff KOF had added over the years- such as tagging, maybe the combo system will change, etc...

    We won't know how optimistic we should be about this game until we see it in beta. This is SNK's biggest gamble ever, so I will know if SNK deserves my support after this game comes out.
    --- The folks who oppose progress in fighters are the Tea Partiers of the FGC.
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge No Ningens Allowed Joined: Posts: 16,609
    Evolving- new graphical engine, new gameplay elements due to that graphical engine.
    Better graphics is evolution? As for these new gameplay elements, I say give it some time before the floodgates open and mass ignorant jackasses start bitching about it. "OMG! Clashing?! SNK is trying to turn KOF in Guilty Gear!!!"

    If the game is GOOD I'm playing it. I won't reject it because it's not exactly like 98. My support goes for good games. That's what matters to me.
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  • arstalarstal Joined: Posts: 2,968
    Seems someone didn't get what I meant, so I'll explain it.

    KOF doesn't have very many frames of animation,similar to GG. If you add animation frames, that's going to slow some things down, and reduce of power of things like hops. That would change how KOF is played.
    --- The folks who oppose progress in fighters are the Tea Partiers of the FGC.
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge No Ningens Allowed Joined: Posts: 16,609
    If things get slowed down can't that just be fixed with a slight boost in game speed?
    Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

    "You don't know what it's like to hate. To have your entire life become nothing more than an expression of hate. Nothing else matters. Nothing else can compare. Or taste as sweet."
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