Why are wake-up supers frowned upon?

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
Let's face it. I play Hugo. and I play Hugo with Gigas Breaker. Now as you all know, it is already hard to land, and it becomes nearly impossible to set up if people are playing to avoid it. I notice people's playing style changes when my meter is full. So anyways, I was playing and I did a wake up gigas on someone, in which he yelled "Oh wow, a WAKE UP super". I don't see why is is so bad, considering I may never land it otherwise since his routine would consist of ex tatsumaki x infinity.

Anyone care to clarify for me? Are all wake up supers frowned upon? or is it just gigas? If there's a valid reason i'll admit I suck shit.
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Comments

  • HenakiHenaki Joined: Posts: 2,661
    if it works it works. more power to you.
  • FiForceFiForce Be afraid. Joined: Posts: 82
    Everything is fair game. It's the scrubs that make excuses for everything. This is cheap, that is lame...just shut the fuck up and play.
  • SF3LPSF3LP Nica K.O Joined: Posts: 3,496
    Let's face it. I play Hugo. and I play Hugo with Gigas Breaker. Now as you all know, it is already hard to land, and it becomes nearly impossible to set up if people are playing to avoid it. I notice people's playing style changes when my meter is full. So anyways, I was playing and I did a wake up gigas on someone, in which he yelled "Oh wow, a WAKE UP super". I don't see why is is so bad, considering I may never land it otherwise since his routine would consist of ex tatsumaki x infinity.

    Anyone care to clarify for me? Are all wake up supers frowned upon? or is it just gigas? If there's a valid reason i'll admit I suck shit.

    imo thats just that guy complaining about something that he can do himself to you....its that persons own fault if they get caught with a wake up super...besides playing hugo is hard enough compared to tryin to land that super
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  • miomio You have no dignity. Joined: Posts: 552
    People who frown upon wake-up supers are just noobs who think that you need to sggkcancelkaraunblockablehitconfirmdashcross-up in every single situation in order to be considered a good or legitimate player. Little do they know, this mind set will always prevent them from doing well in tournaments or stepping their game up to the next level. Ignore these idiots and play how you want. Even if they don't like you for it, fuck em because you get to keep playing on the machine and they'll have to keep pumping in quarters if they want to prove to you how much better they are. And like other people have said, any player that falls for a wake up Gigas on Hugo deserves to fail at 3s. The #1 rule of playing against Hugo is to avoid standing in front of him on the wake-up, especially if he has full meter (unless you're feeling like a risky son of a bitch).
  • whooisodiswhooisodis Joined: Posts: 183
    right on mio, right on!
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 52,405 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Lemme guess...you were playing some guy on the internet?

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  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,068
    shit people talks shit, so why listen to a shit?
  • Spinning BeatSpinning Beat Mr. creampie your girl Joined: Posts: 3,973
    IMO wakeup supers are bad if you're too predictable with them. I think a wakeup super can actually be apart of a mixup plan. How it can be used is. You can just block on wakeup all day and then when your opponent is going for that meaty once more. AKA being predictable...YOU WHIP IT OUT! Most of the time though it is generally a waste of meter that you could have used for something else. Like a punish, some EX pressure and things of that nature. Also most uses of the wakeup super are generally put into action in the most predictable situations. Like your opponent is low on health, or you have no health. So yeah, after peoples experiences of what they have seen this what they feel about wakeup supers.

    Example:

    You're Yang and your opponent is Ryu. Ryu has full stocked shin shoryuken with 10% health. You have half life and you're Yang. Shin shoryuken generally does half life on most characters. So on someone with less than average health like Yang. Chances are he will go for it. Alot of wakeup supers people use have invincibility on start up or just have god like startup in general and will blow through alot of things used for wakeup pressure.

    Like:
    Shin shoryuken (sa2 ryu)
    Tenshin Senkyutai (Sa2 Yang)
    Corkscew Blow (sa3 dudley)
    Rocket Uppercut (sa1 dudley)
    Seichuusen Godanzuki (sa1 Makoto)
    Hammer Mountain (sa3 Hugo)
    Boomerang Raid (sa2 Alex)
    Gigas (HAHAHA)
    Shoryu Cannon (sa2 Sean)
    Shippu Jinrai Kyaku (sa3 Ken)

    Those are not all the supers that are like that. But thats just a sample of what you may expect.
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  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Wake-up supers are generally just a bad idea because:

    A) If it gets blocked, you're probably eating a huge combo, or at the very least, you just blew a full bar of super that probably took you a while to build.
    B) It's a shenanigan and not something you should rely on. Relying on stuff like that will prevent you from learning how to win using a consistent strategy

    That being said , it's a legitimate tactic. Just not a great idea against anyone good unless it's 95% safe against a lot of characters like corkscrew blow -- and even then, you usually just end up wasting a bar for a bit of block damage.

    Most good players in any game will either safe jump after a knockdown, delay their attack to avoid wake-up reversals/supers, or in the case of 3S, just walk in and guess parry. Generally, you see more meaties in games where reversals are either difficult to do consistently (ST) or in high level matches where people can generally expect their opponent not to try something so obvious/unsafe (even though it still happens, obviously). Better players are trained to assume that you're gonna try something desperate when your life gets low, especially when it's someone they haven't played before. Admittedly, everyone forget sometimes when they've got a crazy amount of momentum going, and they've got you at 20% when they have 90.

    The only character (other than Hugo for obvious reasons) I can think of where it's a consistent part of their gameplan is SA2 Makoto because she can end the round if she lands it, so it's something that's worth going for. Plus, most people are paranoid about it, so it gives you a big advantage in a bad situation.

    If you've got a super that's dangerous on wake-up, you're better off using that fear for mindgames rather than actually doing it.
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  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Anyone care to clarify for me? Are all wake up supers frowned upon? or is it just gigas? If there's a valid reason i'll admit I suck shit.

    Um it's kind of the opposite. Gigas is one of those supers that should not be frowned upon if done on wakeup. Why? Because when you are going for it, you're doing it because you are reacting to the fact that he is right in front of you (or in some cases, he might have empty jumped right in front of you on your wakeup). This can be considered a good super attempt, but it depends...are they going to jump out or not?

    Most other supers such as 3S Ken supers, rush supers (kof), etc are bad to do on wakeup. For one, you aren't really reacting to anything, just guessing that he's going to attack. Random supering on wakeup usually shows that you aren't paying attention to what's really going on in the match. In addition, it shows your lack of patience and your lack of effort in actually trying to see if there's anything you should be reacting to. These are the lazy people that just want damage but don't want to actually earn it.

    If you're going to do a random super on wakeup, at least make sure it is for the most part, safe...
    The #1 rule of playing against Hugo is to avoid standing in front of him on the wake-up, especially if he has full meter (unless you're feeling like a risky son of a bitch).

    But if it is the #1 rule to not be standing right in front of him on wakeup, then most people would expect that their opponent would jump away in the last moment...which means that standing right in front of Hugo and not jumping away, would not be so stupid. A lot of the pro players will attack right in the face of Hugo because the Hugo player is aware of how bad they will punish him if he assumes the player is not going to jump away, tries to grab and misses. That said, this is only in high level gameplay...standing in front of a Hugo who is not a high level player, will probably get you thrown, ironically.
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  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    First of all, if you're opponent gets hit by wake up Gigas, it's his own fault, not yours. Your opponent should know better than hand round Hugo on wake up because even without meter, Hugo can just 360 anyway. Gigas is an exception to what I have below, which is my general opinion about wake up super.

    I'll admit, I frown upon wake up super. Wake up super has such a bad risk:reward ratio that that it's rarely used in high level play. If you want an invincible attack usually you will go for uppercut. Gigas is an exception because 720s are hard, Hugo has no good wake up move, and it's pretty easy to avoid wake up 720. I also frown upon wake up super because I still get hit by it, which means I'm not playing at a high enough level to avoid getting hit by it. I know I should get hit by pure random chance, but I feel that I should be playing at a level where wake up super never connects either because my mix up game prevents them from trying even thinking about wake up super, or because I should be making use of delayed attacks. Honestly, your opponent was probably just disappointed that he didn't avoid the wake up gigas. People say dumb things when they're frustrated. I know I do.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that if wake up super keeps working against a specific player, keep doing it. It's your opponent's fault for not adjusting. However, it's not something you should learn to rely on, especially with other characters.
  • miomio You have no dignity. Joined: Posts: 552
    Wake-up supers are generally just a bad idea because:

    A) If it gets blocked, you're probably eating a huge combo, or at the very least, you just blew a full bar of super that probably took you a while to build.
    B) It's a shenanigan and not something you should rely on. Relying on stuff like that will prevent you from learning how to win using a consistent strategy.
    I agree and disagree with this. Although you should never rely on wake-up supers in any/every situation as a consistent strategy, you should be prepared to punish anyone who gets in your face and thinks he can get away with it. Sometimes you might guess poorly and use it at the wrong time, but there are several scenarios where you just need to scare your opponent off you with a tactic that will try to keep him on the ropes. And there are very good ways of making it unpredictable and successful, you just have to pick and choose the right times to execute.
  • SanchezSanchez Needs More Powerbomb Joined: Posts: 3,156
    Wake up super is just wake up parry but with more commitment.

    True players use wake up sweep.
    Passion and Gradualness.
  • shooshoo t('.' )t Joined: Posts: 5,455 mod
    theyre so easy to avoid
    since 2005
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,879 mod
    Wakeup focus attack into ultra
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  • LostintheflurryLostintheflurry KM Joined: Posts: 441
    pick chun and wake up standing close roundhouse like a REAL thug

    and when you play hugo you gotta give em that wake up shoot down back breaker so they learn themselves
  • coreografocoreografo dd-younghou Joined: Posts: 681
    weak up necro sa3..is good
  • HenakiHenaki Joined: Posts: 2,661
    fyi here is the #1 reason wakeup super isnt used:

    wakeup block does practically everything wakeup super does, for less meter and less risk.
  • MihaiMihai umeshoryu Joined: Posts: 1,697
    -wake up super is good if your opponent likes to use a lot of meaties or is just aggressive overall.

    -wake up c. short xx super is good vs opponents who will walk back a bit to block that reversal wake up super/uppercut

    -wake up throw is also good vs these people

    -wake up block is good vs everyone

    -wake up parry is good vs people with lack of high/low options

    -wake up UOH is good vs throw happy players...follow up with a super for easy bait out!
  • BustaWolfeBustaWolfe Joined: Posts: 218
    i don't think it was ever frowned upon. check who you're playing instead of making assumptions on the whole community. this is the first i've heard of it
  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,068
    your best wakeup move is denjin hadoken, do this all the time, the oponent wont even be able to block, lethal wakeup move, frankie 3s does this watch his videos, wakeup denjin hadoken.
  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    your best wakeup move is denjin hadoken, do this all the time, the oponent wont even be able to block, lethal wakeup move, frankie 3s does this watch his videos, wakeup denjin hadoken.

    We're talking about the other way around, dude. Denjin after knock down isn't going to get you anywhere unless your opponent has one Denjin hit of stun left.
  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,068
    We're talking about the other way around, dude. Denjin after knock down isn't going to get you anywhere unless your opponent has one Denjin hit of stun left.


    no really, it works all the time, you can even do it on evry kncokdown if you have bar, why do you think frankie 3s is that good?

    its the best wakeup move because the oponent cant block:tup:

    and does decent damage
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Wake up super is just wake up parry but with more commitment
    Yeah, this is how I've always looked at it. A lot of characters don't need wakeup super, like there's no reason for Ken to ever do it because he can just do dragon punch instead. But to be successful your opponent has to have a little fear that he's going to guess wrong on your wakeup and do an attack when you do a parry or an invincible wakeup move. For some characters, the only way to get that is with the threat of wakeup super. I used to use wakeup super as Q occasionally, just as much for actual effect in the game as for the impact it has on the opponent's guessing games. This is a trick you should only bring out very rarely, but it has to be at least somewhere in your bag.
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  • miomio You have no dignity. Joined: Posts: 552
    no really, it works all the time, you can even do it on evry kncokdown if you have bar, why do you think frankie 3s is that good?

    its the best wakeup move because the oponent cant block:tup:

    and does decent damage

    What we're talking about is when YOU get knocked down... not when you knock your opponent down. But if you want to money match me $20 trying wake up denjins to show me how good it is then I am SO down.
  • ActionhankActionhank ERRBODY GOT OBAMAPHONE Joined: Posts: 2,117
    Pretty sure if the guy didn't understand that you DON'T stand next to Hugo on wake-up, especially with meter, he's dumb.
  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,250
    Reversal Supering after a reset or knockdown is a viable strategy that occasionally works at even high level play, but generally they see a meaty done early or just guess that it's a good idea from how aggressive the player is. The fact it is an effective strategy is proven by how most people change their game based around whether you have meter for it or not.

    Just got to use it intelligently.
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  • MihaiMihai umeshoryu Joined: Posts: 1,697
    I think the main reason wakeup anything isn't that great is cause there's an easy way to beat all that, and that's walking back a split second right when they get up, and this is the reason why regular wakeup uppercuts are better than wakeup EX's/supers. An EX or a super has that flash or freeze frame which basically gives away your intention, but an uppercut doesn't give itself away. That's why sometimes you will see someone parry the first hit of an uppercut, then walk into the rest. They assumed they parried a low short or something, and they can start their combo.
  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,068
    What we're talking about is when YOU get knocked down... not when you knock your opponent down. But if you want to money match me $20 trying wake up denjins to show me how good it is then I am SO down.

    no seriously, participate in serious matchs and pick up denjin ryu. Evry time YOU wakeup and have bar trow a denjin. By using denjin evrytime YOU wakeup with bar you increase your chance of winning way more then a Yun who does gaynay jin 3 times in a match, that is why they should ban denjin from tourneys.

    ask frankie.
  • coreografocoreografo dd-younghou Joined: Posts: 681
    weak up super/shoryuken /parry ..etc when you know what he is waiting or when you need a risky move for make a big come back ..
    for example i remember a yun player who grab me and go for genei jin . i see this stun meter he have about half and he have a lot of life.
    i have like 1/10 of me life meter and 2 supers (necro electric snake)
    if i block and if he go for the command grab i lose.
    if i block and if he go for low short /s.forward/wait a bit ..etc i lose maybe because he can pressure me whit t.forward or c.short, s.strong strings intro command grab
    if i go for parry/or risk move (weak up b.forward x strong hook xx sa3) and if i have lucky he is in stun and i win
    anyway ..he go for command grab (he wait a bit and try this) and i weak up whit b.forward x strong hook xx sa3 ..and i win this fight

    after that this guy say ...wtf ..if i do c.short x palm you are owned...
    i say ..you have more to lose in this guessing game

    thats is why i say "sa3 necro super is good in weak up" ..is because the most of people not think you can do some crazy shit like this .... this super can trade vs meaty moves (and lose vs throws ) is really good if he have not meter (for chip damage) of course you can't do this all time ..but some rarely times work and work really well
    excuse me english
  • miomio You have no dignity. Joined: Posts: 552
    no seriously, participate in serious matchs and pick up denjin ryu. Evry time YOU wakeup and have bar trow a denjin. By using denjin evrytime YOU wakeup with bar you increase your chance of winning way more then a Yun who does gaynay jin 3 times in a match, that is why they should ban denjin from tourneys.

    ask frankie.

    My best character is denjin Ryu, and I play at FFA on a monthly basis. I learned Third Strike from two people that play exactly like Frankie3s (risky, random, offensive and parry happy) and although I've never met/played him, people often try to mimic his play style. But I think it's common knowledge that the best time to do a denjin is on the wake-up of your opponent, either by cancelling from a srk or using a fireball that will hit them on the wake-up and throw their parry timing off. Using denjin at any other time is often situational, risky and unreliable.
  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,068
    My best character is denjin Ryu, and I play at FFA when possible. I learned Third Strike from two people that play exactly like Frankie3s (risky, random, offensive and parry happy). The ideal time to do a denjin is on the wake-up of your opponent, either by cancelling from a srk or using a fireball that will hit them on the wake-up and throw their parry timing off. Using denjin at any other time is often situational, risky and unreliable.

    then you are missing what makes ryu most lethal in this game, there is more to denjin then what you mentioned.

    many players in japan use this fatal technique, but unfortanatly they are not the ones you see evryday on youtube or wtv.

    some places are starting to ban ryu just for that, its to much of an advantageous wakeup move, start putting it in your arsenal and your friends will call you cheap and beat you up and piss on ur face
  • severinseverin customest user title Joined: Posts: 419
    some places are starting to ban ryu just for that,

    wut.
    words
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    some places are starting to ban ryu just for that, its to much of an advantageous wakeup move, start putting it in your arsenal and your friends will call you cheap and beat you up and piss on ur face

    I think you might be over-exaggerating juuuust a little. Denjin is a very good super when used correctly, but when you wake up and do it you get maybe one hit off of it, and unless they're already pretty high up there, their stun meter isn't going to dramatically raised. Save it for when you can charge it.
  • MackinzieMackinzie Team Scrub Joined: Posts: 1,524
    wake-up supers are tyte i do it all day never lose!!!!1!!!!1111!!

    but i'm allowed to do it, because i count frames.
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  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    some places are starting to ban ryu just for that, its to much of an advantageous wakeup move, start putting it in your arsenal and your friends will call you cheap and beat you up and piss on ur face

    I can't tell if you're joking or not. Just in case you are being serious, I'll respond.

    Wake up Denjin is a lose lose situation for Ryu. If the opponent meaties a move, Ryu gets hit out of Denjin (unless it has invincibility that I don't know about). Even if Ryu isn't hit out of Denjin on wake up, your opponent can just combo Ryu. Two things can happen at that point. Either Ryu doesn't release the fireball and eats the combo, or Ryu releases the fireball, gets one hit worth of denjin, then eats a combo anyway. Thus why I said wake up Denjin isn't useful unless your opponent is one Denjin hit away from being stunned.
  • BustaWolfeBustaWolfe Joined: Posts: 218
    then you are missing what makes ryu most lethal in this game, there is more to denjin then what you mentioned.

    many players in japan use this fatal technique, but unfortanatly they are not the ones you see evryday on youtube or wtv.

    some places are starting to ban ryu just for that, its to much of an advantageous wakeup move, start putting it in your arsenal and your friends will call you cheap and beat you up and piss on ur face

    Jesus people, he's just trolling and only now someone calls him on that.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Wake-up Healing FTW, trust me, it's even better than wake-up Denjin!!!
  • VI The SixthVI The Sixth Dudley>You Joined: Posts: 332
    Wake up cross counter is where it's at.
  • drobizhdrobizh Joined: Posts: 416
    Wake up cross counter is where it's at.

    Yeah get hit low.
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  • De4dEyEDe4dEyE Getting Higher. Joined: Posts: 1,906
    You guys are getting baited by a scrub. Really.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Nothing is wrong with a wake up super.
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  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    Wake up cross counter is where it's at.

    Does wake up Blue Nocturne fit this idea, too?
  • Riot GuardRiot Guard Old School Joined: Posts: 3,903
    Let's face it. I play Hugo. and I play Hugo with Gigas Breaker. Now as you all know, it is already hard to land, and it becomes nearly impossible to set up if people are playing to avoid it. I notice people's playing style changes when my meter is full. So anyways, I was playing and I did a wake up gigas on someone, in which he yelled "Oh wow, a WAKE UP super". I don't see why is is so bad, considering I may never land it otherwise since his routine would consist of ex tatsumaki x infinity.

    Anyone care to clarify for me? Are all wake up supers frowned upon? or is it just gigas? If there's a valid reason i'll admit I suck shit.

    Because you don't see top players doing it, but most top players don't play Hugo so in reality it doesn't apply to them. You're not going to see a genei jin or Chun li SA2 wake up super because it's useless. The real reason they are making fun of it in your situation because somebody got their feelings hurt.

    Personally, if you play Hugo SA1 which I do as well learn to parry/red parry into gigas. Why? Because you will not land a wakeup gigas on a good player. They just won't fall for it.
  • oDaSoDaS Joined: Posts: 584
    no seriously, participate in serious matchs and pick up denjin ryu. Evry time YOU wakeup and have bar trow a denjin. By using denjin evrytime YOU wakeup with bar you increase your chance of winning way more then a Yun who does gaynay jin 3 times in a match, that is why they should ban denjin from tourneys.

    ask frankie.


    you only think denjin is sooo good because you learned to play online. that shit is free parry 90% of the time in real street fighter
  • humbaghumbag Team IFD Joined: Posts: 7,403
    Few supers are actually sometimes worth it on wakeup.

    For example Dudleys SA3. Against certain characters unless they parry it they cant really punish it.

    Other example: Wake up EX Aegis with Urien. Sometimes its his only way outta some pressures although it still aint really safe.
  • HenakiHenaki Joined: Posts: 2,661
    EX Aegis is actually a really specific, viable wakeup, if they approach you from the air without a meaty, its almost impossible to parry properly and not get hit by an anti-air. If an Akuma is super cocky and tries to raw chip you to death, its a good way to not be stuck in a semi-checkmate.
  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,068
    you only think denjin is sooo good because you learned to play online. that shit is free parry 90% of the time in real street fighter

    no when i used to main denjin ryu in my local area I used to own in tournaments because of wakeup denjin until I had to switch my main because they decided to ban ryu:sad:
  • Spinning BeatSpinning Beat Mr. creampie your girl Joined: Posts: 3,973
    no when i used to main denjin ryu in my local area I used to own in tournaments because of wakeup denjin until I had to switch my main because they decided to ban ryu:sad:

    What the fuck?
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  • LaishinLaishin Joined: Posts: 54
    no when i used to main denjin ryu in my local area I used to own in tournaments because of wakeup denjin until I had to switch my main because they decided to ban ryu:sad:

    now I see why there's so little ryus in tourneys...they literally wtfbanned him into oblivion :looney:

    /s*****m
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