Warriors Fate: Street Fighter story thread, revived

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  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    my favorite Ultras

    1 Guy's second Ultra



    2 Guy's first Ultra



    3 Adon's first Ultra



    4 Adon's second Ultra



    5 Deejay's second Ultra ( Fist of the Sobat Star)



    Ai wo Torimodose - Masaaki Endoh version



    6 Dudely's first Ultra



    7 Fei Long's second ultra



    8 Gen's second Ultra 1 ( You are already dead ultra)



    Ai Wo Torimodose



    9 Gen's second Ultra 2



    10 Gen first ultra



    11 Ryu's second ultra



    12 Bison's second ultra



    13 T.Hawk's Second Ultra



    14 Juri's second ultra



    15 Cody's first ultra



    16 Cody's second Ultra



    ( Cody could actually do this, give that he was in area filled with sand like a beach and happen to have a wrench and a steel pipe with him. but yeah Cody diffienlty has the striking power to pull something like this off.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    7 at the most.
    Ouch... sucks for those of us that don't know Japanese. :(

    Still, I kinda know what you're talking about... I noticed in Ibuki's SSF4 ending that she said "Gomen!!" (or something similar that I don't know how to spell, but it was along those lines), but the English subs said "Not again!!" What in the name of Cammy's non-existent pants is up with that? Last I checked, "sorry" =/= "not again"... the original stayed in line with her cuteness factor. :<

    That's the problem with translating stuff, though... not everything translates over, so sometimes the "spirit" of what was being said needs to be taken over what the literal translation is. Additionally, when you got something like voice-overs, then you also have to take into consideration the number of syllables so as not to make it look like an old Godzilla film (note I did not say Gojira.)
    my favorite Ultras

    I've personally been fond of Ryu's Shin Shoryuken and Makoto's Seichuusen Godanzuki... they're two of the more probable Ultras in the game and they look so darn powerful both in SSF4 and SF3:TS. On the subject of TS, I also love Yang's Raishin Mahaken... oh the days of 2D, how I miss you. :(
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Talk of ultras made me think of SGS, when will we finally see what happens when the screen is blacked out? I've always been a fan of the multiple hadoukens inside the body take on it, which would make it too bloody to show perhaps? Then again, Dictator's dealing his death-hand Punisher is somewhat similar in premise, energy blast inside the body but it isn't censored.

    Also what exactly is Ryu's dramatic super from CFAS that's from Ryu Final? Could someone describe it or show a video?
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    Talk of ultras made me think of SGS, when will we finally see what happens when the screen is blacked out? I've always been a fan of the multiple hadoukens inside the body take on it, which would make it too bloody to show perhaps? Then again, Dictator's dealing his death-hand Punisher is somewhat similar in premise, energy blast inside the body but it isn't censored.

    Here's some excerpts from the Plot Guide about the Shungokusatsu:

    "What happens during the shungokusatsu is that the user and victim are held by the "other side" as AAC labels it, jigoku (literally earth prison) or Japanese for hell..."

    "The SSGS's opening with Gouki saying "Isshun sengeki!" is a tribute from Nakahira-sensei's SF3 manga Ryu Final. It means "In an instance a thousand (myriad of) blows!" With Gouki's analysis of the SGS it's the equivalent of saying when the SGS or SSGS connects it doesn't dish out 15 or 27 hits only, but 15,000 or 27,000 hits, with a thousand hits per instance."

    "The demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or not. They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil characters, their past sins will also haunt on top of the demons attacking them for that split second."

    In a nutshell, both Gouki and his opponent are trapped in Hell for a second and both are attacked by demons. We'll probably never see it, and even if we do, the attack will lose its power... things that are mysterious and left up to the imagination are more powerful than things we see, because our minds can imagine something more sinister and powerful than what is shown. This is why many horror movies don't actually show the killings, they are implied and left up to the imagination because it is scarier to imagine it than to see it. The Shungokusatsu has always been a thing of mystery and thus is a powerful storytelling tool in the SF games... showing what actually happens would cheapen that.
    Also what exactly is Ryu's dramatic super from CFAS that's from Ryu Final? Could someone describe it or show a video?

    fistoftheryustar made a blog entry that he linked to in a previous post that shows it from Ryu Final: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

    Think of his Saving Attack/Focus Attack with much more power behind it... kinda like Gouki's punches and stuff where he can sink islands and destroy mountains, except this is concentrated on a person rather than an object in nature.
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The whole trapped in hell scenario sounds like a metaphor for the tremendous pain that is being inflicted onto the opponent. I know SF has demigods etc, but much of it is based on martial arts and science and not really myth. Is this an absolute or could it possibly be just a metaphor?
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the ultra's that i didn't listed a the spininng ones, because one spinining physics don't work that way and two it's impossible for someone to create a mini cyclone no mattter how powerful he or she is. now the reason Cody's cyclone ultra is on my list is cause I just chuck that up as him using Ki to create the cyclone rather him create the cyclone just through sheer force alone.

    1 Guy's second Ultra

    yeah it's possblie for Guy to do this outside of the game, since well in most manga's and comics the reflex speed of a character diffrentants from his running speed.

    2 Guy first Ultra

    Guy can also do this giving his abilities.

    3 Adon first Ultra

    yeah it's possbile for Adon to do this as well as his second Ultra outside of the game.

    4 Deejay's second Ultra

    it is in fact possible for Deejay to do this outside of the game because, well he already has the super fast machine gun upper to begin with.

    5 Dudely's first Ultra

    it's possible for Dudley to do this because he's faster then a normal person, i mean what can of normal person can do the freaking Machine gun blow. you would need to have super human speed just to pull something like that off.

    6 Gen

    it's possible for Gen to do his first, Third and Fourth Ultras because well Gen is just that fast.

    note: however Gen's third Ultra outside of gameplay would mostly likey ended in death for the person Gen's fighting once he hits them on the temple. this would also go for his first ultra as well.

    note 2: infact Gen has actually dodged submachine gun fire outside of gameplay and this was mention in the plot guide.

    7 T.Hawk's Second Ultra

    well Zangief can go toe to toe with grizzly bears so I wouldn't be surprise if T.Hawk could pull something like this off outside of the gameplay. also out of gameplay the ground would likey have cracks into it from were T.hawk is pound his opponet into the ground so hard.

    8 Fei Long's second Ultra

    this is possible for Fei Long to do, infact outside of the game this move would be so fast that the average person wouldn't be able to see it. yeah those a entry in the plot guide about Fei Long's Reekaken being so fast that when he did it for a movie it was cut out because it was so fast that the camaras the stuido he was were using, couldn't even capture it.

    9 Cody

    I have no doubt in my mind that Cody can do his second ultra outside of gameplay since the man can punch through a 50cm concrete wall. of course unlike in gamplay if Cody did that outside of the game Guy or the person he is fighting would mostly like either go straight through the wall if there was one, or just crash into a create large dent in it.

    edit: also i frogot to mention C.Viper Ultras yeah but it is also possbile for her to do her ultras outside of gameplay given her abilites. also besides cyclone effects on Balrog's violent bufflo ultra Balrog could actually do that outside of gameplay because well he killed one of Dhalsim's previous elephants with a punch.

    hajime no ippo - Dempsey Roll

    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Adon's noteable speed
    Letting out a roar, countless fists rip through the air.
    That young one's move challenging Muay Thai's legendary emperor Sagat,
    was frankly the gushing of fighting spirit, with the howl of a wild beast.
    "......Ho, not a bad technique."
    The emperor even without withstanding all the young one's strikes and
    kicks, was such that he was being pressed by vigor. And so, extremely
    savoring the long gap he wasn't satisfied with the chewing feeling.
    For the bout, it was of course the emperor's total victory, even when the
    young one bowed down to the ground still a sharp discernment was pointing
    towards the emperor.
    "Let me hear your name once more. My thanks for having entertained me in
    such a long time......."
    "I am Adon. Having challenged you, to win, furthermore to someday surpass
    you is my dream......!"
    The emperor smiled, as Adon spoke.
    "Then that technique, will be good to polish up more and more. To your
    degree as a man, that dream isn't necessarily foolishly conceited..."
    And so many years later......the emperor challenged, in order to surpass
    the emperor with the thoroughly tempered move, with disappointment and rage
    seemingly released, Adon himself didn't expect that.
    "Sagat!, already you're not the emperor. To atone for my dream trampled
    underfoot, as was expected will be on the basis of this techniique!"

    edit: from the two words countless and fists, I can imagine that Adon much have been punching the air really freaking fast.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    The whole trapped in hell scenario sounds like a metaphor for the tremendous pain that is being inflicted onto the opponent. I know SF has demigods etc, but much of it is based on martial arts and science and not really myth. Is this an absolute or could it possibly be just a metaphor?

    Welcome to my world... :/ I poured over BigMex's How to Design a Street Fighter Character series of blogs for a long time (I'm still looking through his older ones), and he pointed out a lot of things I had a hunch about but didn't fully realize. As much as I love SF, the series stopped becoming realistic after a while and became something straight out of anime. Street Fighter and Street Fighter II were great, in my opinion... they had the right balance of realism and fantasy that we all loved back in the early 1990's. They started taking some missteps in Super Street Fighter II, which weren't as noticeable, but were still there. Then we had the different versions of Zero and III, which I thought drifted farther away from series conventions as they went on, reaching an exploding point with Zero 3 and III: Third Strike. I often find myself playing the first versions of SF2, SFZ, and SF3 over the latter ones, because I enjoy simplicity and some realistic ground. This is the direction I'm taking with my Street Fighter RPG project, and given the wackiness that sprung up in a lot of the games, it has been difficult tugging it back to reality.

    To answer your question... yes, that is the way it is. It specifically states in the Plot Guide that Gen lived through the Shungokusatsu because he emptied his mind and heart and stuff. I don't care how calm you are, a physical beating will still be brutal... but a supernatural one can be lessened through focus.

    I've been a fan of Kairi from Street Fighter EX's (the first one, not after he got white hair) version of the "Shungokusatsu"... the attack had the same input motion, but it was just a combo where he ran at you and beat you down mercilessly. I always envisioned the Shungokusatsu like that, but more severe... but what we desire does not change the canon. However, this is partly why I'm working on my SFRPG project... to re-write the canon to shape what I've learned worked in SF1 and 2, with a disclaimer of what I've done, of course.
    the ultra's that i didn't listed a the spininng ones, because one spinining physics don't work that way and two it's impossible for someone to create a mini cyclone no mattter how powerful he or she is. now the reason Cody's cyclone ultra is on my list is cause I just chuck that up as him using Ki to create the cyclone rather him create the cyclone just through sheer force alone.

    A lot of the Ultras were a bit too over-the-top, in my opinion... they had to be perceived as better than the Supers, which is admittedly hard to do, but some of the things they did seriously broke the suspension of disbelief... Abel's Ultra I, Cammy's Ultra I, Chun-Li's Ultra I, and both of Hakan's Ultras are some culprits that come to mind. Admittedly, I haven't played enough of SSF4 to formulate a proper opinion on whose Ultras make sense or not (which is why I listed a bunch of Ultra I's since I played a lot more Vanilla SF4), but I just know that being able to chuck an opponent in the air and striking/grabbing them mid-air is something I would expect to see more in the Versus series rather than actual Street Fighter. We know the cast are skilled fighters, but that's taking it to a whole new extreme.

    Personally, rather than outdo the Supers, I think they should have done an alternative, kind of what they did with many of Vanilla SF4's Ultra II's. Ryu could have had the Shinkuu Hadouken as a Super and the Shin Shoryuken as an Ultra and it would have made sense still, though the Metsu Hadouken through discussion has been proven to be valuable plot-wise, so I'm not discrediting it. Notice that the SF3 characters have one Super Art as a Super, and their other ones as their two Ultras, which I think worked better, even if some of those were exaggerated from what they originally were...
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I had play enough SSF4 and in my opioion here are the Ultras that were not possible to due even for the meta human status that the SF fighters have.

    1 Guren Senpukyaku

    edit: I cucked this up to gameplay mechincs , since if Ken did this move out side of game he would mostly likey switch his legs doing it.

    2 Corkscrew Cross

    edit: only the Torndo effect

    3 Akuma's second Ultra

    edit: first hit is something AKuma could actually do out side of gamplay but then after that it goes all Tamaziana devil.

    4 Hakan's first Ultra

    5 Hakan's second Ultra

    6 Abel's second ultra

    edit more Spinining , the only thing possible for Abel to do in this Ultra is the toss, since I suspect that able has some dergee of super human strength.

    7 Zangief's second ultra

    8 Rufus's second ultra

    9 Elfurte's second ultra

    10 Gen's second Ultra

    11 Chun-li's Ultra

    and that's all i can think of right now. now he's Feilong's speed feat as well as Gen's
    As of SF2, he's never used his shienkyaku in a movie scene. He did use a
    rekkaken once, but the scene was cut due to the move's intensity unable to
    be seen on the big screen.
    slip into the haze.
    "Unpolished isn't it. For with lead bullets that be the principle to not kill
    one another."
    Abruptly, at the neighboring wharf a boat goes down.
    His name is Gen. Through the Hong Kong dark streets no one knows not that
    name, not one person non-fearful of it.
    A notorious assassinist boasting a assassination rate of 180% being a Chinese
    kenpo expert.
    Surpassing the climax of 70 furthermore in a moment's fist to increase
    sharpness wily he is.
    From within the haze, moss-green suited men having prepared Steyrs (bullpup
    submachine guns) approach. 5 persons in number.
    Here a 2-years'span, suddenly in Hong Kong's undersurface society arose to
    power an Italian lineage's mafia group. In time the large business and
    several people's family's lives Gen's work consequently is plundering.
    As with the Hong Kong society, the matter of requesting assassinations to Gen
    a success rate of above 100% is definitely promised so to speak. If stalked
    there is no path of escape. Therefore resistance is meaningless. Rather, to
    Gen being the value of stalking and, it's said that he feels dignified.
    Obliviated to that "common sense" the young villains are, even in complete
    recklessness it is that they must clear away grudges in stalking to pursue
    after Gen's life.
    "Gen......quite the hard time you've given us haven't you. To one who
    obstructs our dealings, equally we'll make him take death's punishment."
    "Strange......you all don't recall your own obstructing."
    "Stuff it!"
    The Steyrs open fire. Gen's figure is already unseen.
    "For today's friend is tomorrow's enemy. Reversal again to be so. As with
    our daily's it must be rare."
    The storehouse's roof's Gen says.
    The man replies.
    "In other words......your existence is such a so-called matter of obstruction.
    For hurdles are to thoroughly remove. Failure in our business will not be
    permitted."
    "............To go also death, even to return to death eh. In that case
    you'll scatter!, the bloody battle's flower......"
    Once again a jumbo jet's whirring. Glimmering light and wind.
    The impacting noise paralyzing the eardrum. For the world filled with
    silence.
    The hour of death even again mixed in the sound of a whir, goes to dissolve.
    "......The weak doomed to perish, this be nature's reason......"
    At the end for the assassins was just one alone standing.
    The sound of waves returns and, for the old man feeling things brought to a
    close, and he had vanished to the undersurface alleys.

    noteable sentences: The Steyrs ( Submachine guns) open fire. Gen's figure is already unseen.

    edit: now some of the ultras invole the character launching himself into the air, and i have seen comics and manga before were martial artists have indeed jump 20 feet into the air. note Ryu is also noted as being a bullet timer outside of gameplay by capcom besides Gen, so they might be other characters in SF who are bullet timers as well. these are the diffrent types of reflex speeds in fiction from slowest to fastest, 1 sloth like speed, 2 Normal human speed, 3 Aim dodging speed, 4 low end bullet timing speed, 5 Mid end bullet timing speed, 6 High end bullet timing speed 7 lightining speed, 8 near light speed , 9 light speed , 10 FTL ( faster than light) speed.

    only a character who can going FTL can do a tornado effect as shown by Flash.



    edit: as able tossing somebody up into the air, hey maybe he was some dergee of super human strength, as for grabbing a person mid air it depends on how fast the character in question is. hell even Ryu has super human strength because in his SF3 ending he's holding up a 10 ton boulder.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    3 Akuma's second Ultra

    edit: first hit is something AKuma could actually do out side of gamplay but then after that it goes all Tamaziana devil.

    ^ This just made my day. XD Something tells me this was inspired by his SF3:TS ending in some weird, cosmic way, though.

    As far as bullet-timers go, though... I wouldn't suspect anybody below Tier 3 in the power tiers established in the Plot Guide to be capable of such feats. Everyone from Tier 3 - 1 make sense for this, but I'd have a hard time believing anybody in Tier 4 could dodge bullets... which leaves Gouki (Akuma), Vega (M. Bison), Sagat, Ryu, Gouken, Ken, Gen, Rose, Guy, and Seth.

    Most of the culprits of the unbelievable Ultras fall below Tier 3, which actually makes a lot of sense, because you wouldn't believe these characters are doing these things and they are to make them seem like they're on par with their upper-tier bretheren. Fei-Long and Adon may be fast, but that doesn't mean their punches have the power that comes with those above them in the tiers, who are both fast and powerful. Compared to normal people, even the feats of those in Tier 8 and above seem impressive... just remember that everybody you play as in SF has a degree of power much higher than the average martial artist (as shown by how they can flatten any nameless martial artist in one attack), as they represent the best in the world. However, this does not excuse many of them from doing the improbable or impossible... yes, Abel is strong, but I doubt he could throw Zangief, E. Honda, or Rufus into the air with as much ease as he does in his Ultra.
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ok they are characters in Tier 4 like Guile who can toss out a projectile that go faster then speed of sound, Barlog who can one punch a elephant and Cody who can puching through 50 cm concrete walls.

    My speed tier list again

    Rank S+ Akuma, Gen ( just a guess)

    Rank S. SFA3 Bison, Gouken ( guesses)

    Rank A+. Ryu, SNH Ryu, Dudley, Bison ( SF4 / SSF4) , Adon

    Rank A. Sagat, Charlie, Guile , Dee Jay , Ken, Q , Makoto ,Juri , Guy

    Rank B+ Cody, Chun-li, Rolento, Fei Long , E.Honda , Ibuki , Rufus ( fast hand speed maybe?)

    Rank B. C. Viper, Cammy, Vega , Sakuara , Elena , Yun, Yang , Able

    Rank C+ Balrog, Sodom , Blanka , Karin , Hakan , El Fuerte

    Rank C. the Twelve dolls,R. Mika , Sean , Dan , Alex

    Rank D+ Nerco, Remy

    Rank D T.Hawk, Zangief, Hugo

    basically: according to me speed is basically everywhere on the tiers as some of the characters may be fast but wouldn't necessarly be as powerful as the upper tier ones. which would actually start at Tier 4 and not Tier 3 . and maybe even Tier 5 since that's where you get to Balrog who can one punch a elephant.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Juri's Counter and Ex Counter





    dashing under a sonic boom



    dashing under other projectiles



    Juri's counter move again



    - gootecks (Guile) vs. Ed Ma (Juri) - [Part 1

    - gootecks (Guile) vs. Ed Ma (Juri) - [Part 2

    Dudely cross counter



    note : in the plot guide it is state that Birde had lifted up a huge train chassis that was half buried, then Rufus who is in tier 9 is able to push his 1,000 pound + motorcycle across the desert in hot and dryed weather.

    Rufus SSF4 ending takes place after his SF4 ending.

    note : a side car would be half the weight of the motorcycle it's attached to.

    Safe weight motorcycle calculator

    note 2: the heaviest of motorcycles can weigh up to 1,500lbs.

    note 3: basically the side car Candy is in in Rufus opening and endings would weigh about 500lbs at best.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    I'm not discrediting anybody below Tier 3, those are very impressive feats, as I said in my previous post, but let's face it... having great ki manipulation or showing great feats of strength toward immobile or practically immobile objects does not equate to having the skills to dodge bullets. To dodge bullets, you not only need superhuman speed, but you also need superhuman reaction time and reflexes. I just don't see anybody below Tier 3 having that... I even questioned Tier 3 at first...

    A bullet is a small object that travels at a speed most cannot comprehend... saying that just anybody within the SF universe can dodge them is a bit ludicrous, amazing feats such as throwing trains and killing elephants aside...
  • mikrosmikros Yo, Joe! Joined: Posts: 1,010
    I imagine that the military/law enforcement characters would be able to deal with bullets easily. That's their job, after all.

    While we're at it, I'd also like to recall that deflecting a bullet takes less energy than moving a human body out of its way in time.

    Lol, I recall watching that CFAS video back in the day, the one where the guy gets in front of the camera just when Ryu is doing his finisher. Damm guy! XDD
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I say that Juri , Adon, Guy, Cody , Dudely, Rolento and maybe Fei Long can dodged bullets.

    bullet speeds

    Speed of a Bullet

    .22 rimfire cartridge 1200?1500 fps ( 818 miles per hour / 1,022 miles per hour)

    .22 centerfire cartridge 2400?3000 fps ( 1636 miles per hour / 2,045 miles )

    .22 Swift 4,000 fps ( 2,727 miles per hour)

    .38 Special 600 fps ( 409 miles per hour)

    note Deejay's Air Slasher goes at lest 721 miles per hour.

    .221 Fireball ( 1,806 miles per hour)

    Submachine guns

    Steyr MPi 69 1,250 fps ( 852 miles per hour)

    Steyr MPi 69 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Steyr TMP 1,214 fps ( ( 827 miles per hour)

    Austen submachine gun 1,200 fps ( 818 miles per hour)

    Austen submachine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Beretta M12 1,247 fps ( 850 miles per hour)

    Beretta M12 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Beretta Model 38 1,407 Fps ( 959 miles per hour)

    Beretta Model 38 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    M3 submachine gun 920 fps ( 627 miles per hour)

    M3 submachine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Uzi 1280 fps ( 872 miles per hour)

    Uzi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Machine Guns

    CETME Ameli 2,871 fps ( 1,957 miles per hour)

    CETME Ameli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Degtyaryov machine gun 2,755 fps ( 1,878 miles per hour)

    Degtyaryov machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle 2822 fps ( 1,924 miles per hour)

    M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Stoner 63 3,250 fps ( 2,215 miles per hour)

    Stoner 63 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    M60 machine gun 2,800 fps ( 1,909 miles per hour)

    M60 machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    M61 Vulcan 3,450 fps ( 2,352 miles per hour)

    M61 Vulcan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    GAU-8 Avenger 3,500 fps ( 2,386 miles per hour)

    GAU-8 Avenger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Smith_&_Wesson_Model_10 755 fps ( 514 miles per hour)

    Smith & Wesson Model 10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    note: this likey the gun that Edi E uses.

    M14 rifle 2,800 fps ( 1909 miles per hour)

    M14 rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    M16 rilfe - 3110 fps ( 2,120 miles per hour)

    wikpedi.org - Wiki Resources and Information.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Cody has beating Edi E before in Final Fight so he may have infact dodge bullets from Edi E's gun which wouldn't translate into him dodging bullets from a M60 because bullets fire from a M60 would travel faster then bullets fire from Edi E's gun.





    note: Rolento is the only boss in Final who actually does goes around having does this. no other boss in Final Fight does what Rolento does in the game.

    note 2: Guy is the only person in Final Fight who fought Rolento.

    note 3 : dodging a bullet would required a person to use his whole body, so this wouldn't just be hand speed.

    note 4: Guy and Cody have sparring with each other before
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • fistoftheryustarfistoftheryustar Joined: Posts: 2,170
    Time to catch up
    -Thanks, either way is fine... I'm not really much of a glory-seeker, I just enjoy contributing something useful to my SF-fan bretheren (and sisteren). :)

    -Being able to search in Japanese helps a lot... I ran into something similar when I was looking up information on Shin, the only original character from Street Fighter Online: Mouse Generation (and technically the first Taekwondo fighter in the series, making an appearance even before Juri.)

    -I don't find cosplay silly at all... I see it as an art form. As an artist myself, I see a lot of things as art that most others don't, such as my significant other's makeup

    -I looked at the video, and from what I can tell, yes, it's the fabled Fist of the Wind. From the little bit I can see, it does look like Ryu is doing a punch, and considering it is his Dramatic Finish (it says so at the end of that segment), and it even showed in the flyer that his Dramatic Finish is the Fist of the Wind-esque punch, I'm sure that's it.


    -or if they got ridiculous like most character's Ultras in S/SF4...

    - That's very cool, thanks though. Either way Capcomunity seems to be a little dead or jaded at this time for some reason. I see lots of blogs about "remove the block button" by new guys and constant upload of pictures we've seen billions of times. Not too much new and insightful stuff, thats why I love it here in this thread.

    - Very interesting about Mouse Generation. Theres got to be lots of positives to knowing even basic Japanese. I definitely want to learn very soon.

    - Well I found cosplay VERY silly at first. May be it was my area, but it would always be grown men dressed up as Sailor Moon all the time and talking about hentai and yaoi. I come from a very small cosplay scene. But once you're in the world, you can become majorly impressed by the craftsmanship. Strange but it was a big honor to get a comment back from Jiro a widely known and popular cospalyer in Japan. On topic, I plan to cosplay, Gouken, Akuma, Sean, and my own ideas for Ryu.

    - The flyer gave me great peace of mind. To say its not Kaze no Kobushi in the clip, would be pushing it.

    - Dont remind me of the SSF4 Ultras aha. Tornado Fighter 4


    -"The SSGS's opening with Gouki saying "Isshun sengeki!" is a tribute from Nakahira-sensei's SF3 manga Ryu Final. It means "In an instance a thousand (myriad of) blows!"

    -fistoftheryustar made a blog entry that he linked to in a previous post that shows it from Ryu Final: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

    Think of his Saving Attack/Focus Attack with much more power behind it... kinda like Gouki's punches and stuff where he can sink islands and destroy mountains, except this is concentrated on a person rather than an object in nature.

    I didnt know Masahiko Nakahira was the first to mention one thousand with the SGS. Very nice if Capcom did reference him again for that. There are a lot of artists out there, but not always ones that can contribute in the storyline like that. Very smart artist who definitely knew the character well.

    Thanks for the blog mention. The link does work even though the hyperlink says it doesnt. Here that new update, but its very small: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

    I've personally been fond of Ryu's Shin Shoryuken and Makoto's Seichuusen Godanzuki... they're two of the more probable Ultras in the game and they look so darn powerful both in SSF4 and SF3:TS.

    Before I used to see them all as equally liked. But recently Shin Shoryuken has made its way to #1 with me. Have been playing the CPU for about a year and its the one I can consistently use to win. (Managed to beat the game on Highest CPU Difficulty, without losing a round, fighting Q, beating Gill twice with the lovely Shin Shoryuken attack, and without using hadoukens! Very happy about finally getting this!)

    Out of the Ryu's SF3 Supers, which do you guys think is the strongest?
    If it happens to be Shin Shoryuken, does that mean Hugo is able to withstand Ryu's strongest technique?

    my favorite Ultras

    Ai wo Torimodose - Masaaki Endoh version


    I like how you randomly have that in there aha

    Lol, I recall watching that CFAS video back in the day, the one where the guy gets in front of the camera just when Ryu is doing his finisher. Damm guy! XDD

    Oh God, haa dont remind me! I've even analyzed the angles that he covers the screen. He did it in the worst way possible. Still some animations peeking out, to peak interest and mystery.

    ^ This just made my day. XD Something tells me this was inspired by his SF3:TS ending in some weird, cosmic way, though.

    Me too. Gouki's ending in 3S has that mysterious move in his ending. I think it was hard to come up with a Super/Ultra that involved a spin kick, that was ALSO different and unique to the Shinkuu Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku. I believe SSF4's U2 was somehow a try at filling in the gaps for that move. I would say very interesting concept, but in terms of the specifics and execution of that move design... ugh!



    All caught up. Will post a new question soon
    My drawing:
    Mai cheats on Ryu - "Shin Shoryuken!"

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7115525&postcount=252
  • fistoftheryustarfistoftheryustar Joined: Posts: 2,170
    Time to catch up
    -Thanks, either way is fine... I'm not really much of a glory-seeker, I just enjoy contributing something useful to my SF-fan bretheren (and sisteren). :)

    -Being able to search in Japanese helps a lot... I ran into something similar when I was looking up information on Shin, the only original character from Street Fighter Online: Mouse Generation (and technically the first Taekwondo fighter in the series, making an appearance even before Juri.)

    -I don't find cosplay silly at all... I see it as an art form. As an artist myself, I see a lot of things as art that most others don't, such as my significant other's makeup

    -I looked at the video, and from what I can tell, yes, it's the fabled Fist of the Wind. From the little bit I can see, it does look like Ryu is doing a punch, and considering it is his Dramatic Finish (it says so at the end of that segment), and it even showed in the flyer that his Dramatic Finish is the Fist of the Wind-esque punch, I'm sure that's it.


    -or if they got ridiculous like most character's Ultras in S/SF4...

    - That's very cool, thanks though. Either way Capcomunity seems to be a little dead or jaded at this time for some reason. I see lots of blogs about "remove the block button" by new guys and constant upload of pictures we've seen billions of times. Not too much new and insightful stuff, thats why I love it here in this thread.

    - Very interesting about Mouse Generation. Theres got to be lots of positives to knowing even basic Japanese. I definitely want to learn very soon.

    - Well I found cosplay VERY silly at first. May be it was my area, but it would always be grown men dressed up as Sailor Moon all the time and talking about hentai and yaoi. I come from a very small cosplay scene. But once you're in the world, you can become majorly impressed by the craftsmanship. Strange but it was a big honor to get a comment back from Jiro a widely known and popular cospalyer in Japan. On topic, I plan to cosplay, Gouken, Akuma, Sean, and my own ideas for Ryu.

    - The flyer gave me great peace of mind. To say its not Kaze no Kobushi in the clip, would be pushing it.

    - Dont remind me of the SSF4 Ultras aha. Tornado Fighter 4


    -"The SSGS's opening with Gouki saying "Isshun sengeki!" is a tribute from Nakahira-sensei's SF3 manga Ryu Final. It means "In an instance a thousand (myriad of) blows!"

    -fistoftheryustar made a blog entry that he linked to in a previous post that shows it from Ryu Final: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

    Think of his Saving Attack/Focus Attack with much more power behind it... kinda like Gouki's punches and stuff where he can sink islands and destroy mountains, except this is concentrated on a person rather than an object in nature.

    I didnt know Masahiko Nakahira was the first to mention one thousand with the SGS. Very nice if Capcom did reference him again for that. There are a lot of artists out there, but not always ones that can contribute in the storyline like that. Very smart artist who definitely knew the character well.

    Thanks for the blog mention. The link does work even though the hyperlink says it doesnt. Here that new update, but its very small: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

    I've personally been fond of Ryu's Shin Shoryuken and Makoto's Seichuusen Godanzuki... they're two of the more probable Ultras in the game and they look so darn powerful both in SSF4 and SF3:TS.

    Before I used to see them all as equally liked. But recently Shin Shoryuken has made its way to #1 with me. Have been playing the CPU for about a year and its the one I can consistently use to win. (Managed to beat the game on Highest CPU Difficulty, without losing a round, fighting Q, beating Gill twice with the lovely Shin Shoryuken attack, and without using hadoukens! Very happy about finally getting this!)

    Out of the Ryu's SF3 Supers, which do you guys think is the strongest?
    If it happens to be Shin Shoryuken, does that mean Hugo is able to withstand Ryu's strongest technique?

    my favorite Ultras

    Ai wo Torimodose - Masaaki Endoh version


    I like how you randomly have that in there aha

    Lol, I recall watching that CFAS video back in the day, the one where the guy gets in front of the camera just when Ryu is doing his finisher. Damm guy! XDD

    Oh God, haa dont remind me! I've even analyzed the angles that he covers the screen. He did it in the worst way possible. Still some animations peeking out, to peak interest and mystery.

    ^ This just made my day. XD Something tells me this was inspired by his SF3:TS ending in some weird, cosmic way, though.

    Me too. Gouki's ending in 3S has that mysterious move in his ending. I think it was hard to come up with a Super/Ultra that involved a spin kick, that was ALSO different and unique to the Shinkuu Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku. I believe SSF4's U2 was somehow a try at filling in the gaps for that move. I would say very interesting concept, but in terms of the specifics and execution of that move design... ugh!




    All caught up. Here are my questions for anyone who wants to answer:


    1) Out of the Ryu's SF3 Supers, which do you guys think is the strongest? If it happens to be Shin Shoryuken, does that mean Hugo is able to withstand Ryu's strongest technique?

    2) If you beat someone with a Yagyu Oodama Super in SF3, Oro will engulf himself in his own Yagyu Oodama and float up off screen, as his "victory animation." Is it safe to say this is how he travels from place to place? But in SF3:NG we see him hitch a ride on a plane's wing to travel. Perhaps he does both. He often boredom not wanting to be bored. Perhaps he does the plane method of transportation sometimes because it keeps it exciting and keeps from boring him.

    3) Whenever we see Ryu with a big boulder over his head and Oro on top, we might think this is Oro's idea of training and he's forcing Ryu to do this to get better. But doesnt Ryu say something like, I think I sense that old man around here? (Meaning Oro sneaks on top of Ryu's rock at first, without Ryu knowing this.) Does this mean that Ryu training with the big boulder was actually his own idea / method of training? That's pretty rigid training!
    My drawing:
    Mai cheats on Ryu - "Shin Shoryuken!"

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7115525&postcount=252
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    1) Out of the Ryu's SF3 Supers, which do you guys think is the strongest? If it happens to be Shin Shoryuken, does that mean Hugo is able to withstand Ryu's strongest technique?

    2) If you beat someone with a Yagyu Oodama Super in SF3, Oro will engulf himself in his own Yagyu Oodama and float up off screen, as his "victory animation." Is it safe to say this is how he travels from place to place? But in SF3:NG we see him hitch a ride on a plane's wing to travel. Perhaps he does both. He often boredom not wanting to be bored. Perhaps he does the plane method of transportation sometimes because it keeps it exciting and keeps from boring him.

    3) Whenever we see Ryu with a big boulder over his head and Oro on top, we might think this is Oro's idea of training and he's forcing Ryu to do this to get better. But doesnt Ryu say something like, I think I sense that old man around here? (Meaning Oro sneaks on top of Ryu's rock at first, without Ryu knowing this.) Does this mean that Ryu training with the big boulder was actually his own idea / method of training? That's pretty rigid training!

    1. Shin shoryuken most likely. Hugo is able to wake back up from it; it's not as if he can take it without everything going black.

    2. Possibly. Senjutsu is literally along the lines of wizardry, so Oro may very well be able to travel via projectile among other things.

    3. More or less. Even by the end of 3S, Ryu has little to no interest to start training with Oro. It's been the other way around since the end of 2I with Oro's ending there. In other words, both of Oro's SF3 endings have his sights set on Ryu, but in both of Ryu's SF3 endings, just as with both of Ryu's SF4 endings, no future interest with Oro or past interactions with Gouken are indicated.
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    On the subject of bullet-dodging, let's think of this from a logical point of view, like I touched on a little bit in a previous post. From the numbers Sagatryu posted, the bullets seem to average around the 1,000 MPH mark... that's 16 miles a minute... which is 0.27 miles a second. One mile is 5,280 feet... 27% of that is 1,425.6 feet in a second... in ONE SECOND. An American Football field is 360 feet on the long side... which means a bullet practically travels over three Football fields in ONE SECOND. That is incredibly fast... you have to have a reaction time of a small fraction of a second and divine reflexes to match to dodge one of these things if the shooter is a competent marksman. Saying anybody below Tier 3 can dodge bullets seems ludicrous to me, and I even had difficulty accepting some of those in Tier 3 would be able to...

    It doesn't matter how fast a character can punch, or even move... if you can't react, you can't dodge. You have a very small fraction of a second to react when the trigger is pulled, which means you practically have to have Spider-Sense in order to dodge it, something a lot of the characters even in Tier 3 I have trouble believing, but will accept given how powerful they really are. Deflecting bullets is similar, but you also need something to deflect the bullet (such as extremely tough skin or something to guard it, like a thick glove or something along those lines), otherwise a small, rounded object traveling at that velocity would go straight into the target's skin, or perhaps even through it if they are even more frail.

    I'm just asking everyone to think outside the realm of anime and comics and think about the science behind this claim, especially how fast a bullet truly travels and the amount of skill it would take to actually dodge one.

    Let's not forget that Nash is Tier 3 and even he couldn't dodge the bullets in his Zero 2 ending... I'll give him the benefit of the doubt of being distracted and surprised, but even then, it's just more fuel to the argument that even Tier 3 is questionable at times for bullet-dodging.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention about Edi.E... it's not too surprising that the Final Fight cast (especially Guy, who is Tier 3) was able to dodge his bullets... Edi.E is... not too bright, I'm sure he wasn't the most competent marksman. He's certainly no Chun-Li in that department, I'm sure.
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    well not everyone below Tier 3 just a few, infact I think that Cody and Rolento belong in Tier 3 and not Tier 4. Now Dee Jay's Climax beat Ultra just show Deejay moving his arms really fast which would just be hand speed.

    edit: at lets that forget the fact that the gun Chun-li would used would be a lot better then the gun Edi. E would have.

    electricity Ultras

    Lightning Cannonball



    Ground shaver





    Burst Time



    Burning time



    Denjin Hadoken



    edit: the only character with a electricty attack who's average voltage we know is Blanka's , the voltage for C.Viper's electricty attacks and the Denjin Hadoken are unknown.
    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • Doctrine DarkDoctrine Dark Giving your waifu the pipeu Joined: Posts: 6,984
    3. More or less. Even by the end of 3S, Ryu has little to no interest to start training with Oro. It's been the other way around since the end of 2I with Oro's ending there. In other words, both of Oro's SF3 endings have his sights set on Ryu, but in both of Ryu's SF3 endings, just as with both of Ryu's SF4 endings, no future interest with Oro or past interactions with Gouken are indicated.

    This is something that annoys be a bit about the whole Oro/Ryu/Gouki stuff.

    Most people claim that Oro and Ryu are more powerful than Gouki by Third Strike because Oro senses Gouki's Chi and has a good feel for his power, yet places more emphasis on Ryu as a warrior instead--believing he'll force him to fight with both arms in about 15 yrs or so with the proper training, while ignoring Gouki in the process. Most even believe Oro defeated Gouki, even though it was clear that it wasn't a real battle.

    I try to compare it to Dictator's obsession with Ryu, due to Ryu's fighting spirit and potential he shows when he fights. Only difference is Oro doesn't have evil intentions. Would that be a fair comparison?

    What's your take on those power comparisons, Vas? And anyone else?
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
    PSN: SP_Wesker215/XBL: SP Wesker215
    Super Street Fighter Plot Guide II
    Street Fighter V: Cammy Marvel: Jill/Dante/Magneto
    Guilty Gear Revelator: Venom King of Fighters XIV: Hein/Mature/Kyo
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    This is something that annoys be a bit about the whole Oro/Ryu/Gouki stuff.

    Most people claim that Oro and Ryu are more powerful than Gouki by Third Strike because Oro senses Gouki's Chi and has a good feel for his power, yet places more emphasis on Ryu as a warrior instead--believing he'll force him to fight with both arms in about 15 yrs or so with the proper training, while ignoring Gouki in the process. Most even believe Oro defeated Gouki, even though it was clear that it wasn't a real battle.

    I try to compare it to Dictator's obsession with Ryu, due to Ryu's fighting spirit and potential he shows when he fights. Only difference is Oro doesn't have evil intentions. Would that be a fair comparison?

    What's your take on those power comparisons, Vas? And anyone else?

    I completely disagree with Ryu being more powerful than Gouki... both are exceptional fighters, but Gouki does have a greater amount of power than Ryu, even in TS. Ryu does some exaggerated Mas Oyama-esque things like carrying heavy boulders, but he doesn't have the sheer power to destroy mountains or stay submerged in the ocean, where the pressure would crush any normal being. Gouki destroyed an island in one punch during Z2, just think of how much time elapsed and how much better he became come TS.

    Between Gouki and Oro, that's up in the air... Oro does some pretty amazing things as well, such as defeating Ryu, which by SF3, is a feat most other characters cannot do. Though, I do have to wonder if Oro used both hands or not... this would give us a good indication of how powerful he truly is.

    The thing about choosing Ryu over Gouki is a matter of character. We all know Ryu travels around, and though he is difficult to track, it is still possible. From what I can tell from Gouki's endings, he seems to stay hidden away until wind of a worthy opponent catches him, which already makes him less accessible. Let's also not forget that Ryu is constantly trying to better himself as a fighter, where as Gouki is unruly and already a master in his own right, making him unteachable from Oro's perspective, as he would just reject it.

    Vega's (dictator) obsession with Ryu is equally as logical. Ryu during the Zero series was confused and vulnerable, debating on whether to give into SnH or not, not even fully understanding what it is. This uncertainty would make him an easy target for Shadaloo to capture, and would probably make him more vulnerable to the effects of Psycho Power. Gouki, on the other hand, is difficult enough to find, let alone capture. Though he is more powerful than Ryu, he at the least has a stronger will at the time, and would probably be much more resilient to Psycho Power than Ryu, if he could even be captured in the first place.

    I find that answering these complex questions become much easier when multiple viewpoints are examined... much like the bullet-dodging discussion, where others were focused on sheer speed, I found that reaction time and reflexes also needed to be considered... and in this case, rather than focusing on who is more powerful, it becomes a question of who is more willing to accept Oro's teachings and Vega's brainwashing, the answer to both of those is the open-minded for the former and confused for the latter Ryu.
  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    off topic fan made team Ultras

    Psycho Killer Head Ram



    Sobat Symphony



    Yoroitoshi Muso Renge



    Bushin Goraisenteiga



    Nightmare Dankairaku



    Tiger Avalanche



    Hashinamikudaki



    Burst Ryukoha



    Buffalo Atomic Buster



    Gyro Drive Burst



    Nightmare Destruction

    "you may have the Ultimate Shield , but I have the Ultimate eye , and my ultimate eye can see your weakness" - King Bradley / Wrath to Greed.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This is something that annoys be a bit about the whole Oro/Ryu/Gouki stuff.

    Most people claim that Oro and Ryu are more powerful than Gouki by Third Strike because Oro senses Gouki's Chi and has a good feel for his power, yet places more emphasis on Ryu as a warrior instead--believing he'll force him to fight with both arms in about 15 yrs or so with the proper training, while ignoring Gouki in the process. Most even believe Oro defeated Gouki, even though it was clear that it wasn't a real battle.

    I try to compare it to Dictator's obsession with Ryu, due to Ryu's fighting spirit and potential he shows when he fights. Only difference is Oro doesn't have evil intentions. Would that be a fair comparison?

    What's your take on those power comparisons, Vas? And anyone else?

    Yes, that's an accurate comparison.

    Ryu even by 3S is a long ways from Oro and Gouki. It's Ryu, nearly successfully having completely conquered satsui no hadou plus knocking a 440-pound giant wrestler unconscious versus a 140+ year-old bored sage with ki manipulation and telekinesis of wizarding levels versus a 50+ year-old earth-stomper who splits Ayers Rock, not only withstands submarine-level water pressure but also blasts out of the watery surface as if it's a shallow wading pool, and despite graying hair will not allow his insides to decay him into a total fiery oblivion no matter how many times he breaks the ancient ban on a suicidal technique.

    Ryu is Ryu. Gouki and Oro are monsters. As for which monster would prevail, as of 3S we don't know. Both feel each other, both hold back, and both stop caring about each other after their brief episode because they're both unimpressed with each other's first impression.
  • The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feminist Joined: Posts: 3,781
    I'm not discrediting anybody below Tier 3, those are very impressive feats, as I said in my previous post, but let's face it... having great ki manipulation or showing great feats of strength toward immobile or practically immobile objects does not equate to having the skills to dodge bullets. To dodge bullets, you not only need superhuman speed, but you also need superhuman reaction time and reflexes. I just don't see anybody below Tier 3 having that... I even questioned Tier 3 at first...

    Tier 3 characters can do some pretty amazing things, though...

    Somewhere in this thread is an Zero/Alpha account provided by vas describing a fight between Birdie and the dolls.

    The dolls had him suurounded, and some of them had firearms trained on Birdie. Before they could shoot him, he was able to LIFT A TRAIN and crush a bunch of the dolls and make an escape.

    Maybe not quite bullet dodging (perhaps the element of surprise prevented the dolls from shooting immediately), but this incident demonstrates ridiculous speed and strength from a "lower tiered" character. A large, "slow", unpopular character, no less.

    (Although Birdie is one of my absolute favorite characters, personally. Hakan, Hugo, Big Z, Birdie, Darun...those are my boys.)

    Ultras that are not Beefed up verisons of Supers used in SSF4 for the SF2 and Alpha cast

    If an ultra isn't a beefed up super, then it usually just turns out to be a beefed up special/normal move. Or a combination of special/normal moves.
    1 Guren Senpukyaku ( this move is totally new for Ken and isn't a beefed up verison of any of his other supers)

    Beefy Tatsu
    2 Haoh Gadoken

    Beefy Gadoken with a touch of SNK flair.

    Yoga Catastrophe

    Actually, this can be seen as a beefy super.

    5 Yoga Shangri-La.

    Yoga Noogie combined with his close fierce punch.

    6 Psycho Punisher

    Headstomp plus any of his numerous Pyscho infused punches

    7 Cammy Quick Combination.

    Just more grappling from a character who is know to grapple.

    I guess you could say it's a beefed up version of Cammy's regular grabs.

    8 Last Dread Dust.

    Beefy Bad Spray + FF nostalgia (pipe).
    9 Bushin Goraisenpujin

    Beefy Izuna drop.
    10 Shout of Earth ( this move is new in canon as it had only been seen the non cannon game Capcom vs. SNK 2)

    Beefed up Electricity.
    11 Siberian Blizzard ( complete diffrent from Mech Zangeif's Siberian Blizzard in marvel vs Capcom 2)

    REALLY Beefy Lariat.
    12 Bloody High Claw

    Beefy Sky High Claw

    13 Dirty Bull.

    Beefy regular grab. After all, his regular grab is an illegal headbutt. Dirty bull is an illegal headbutt + and illegal foot stomp + illegal elbow. (illegal in boxing, I mean)

    Etc, etc.

    So, in general, some of the more "over the top ultras" really aren't all that random. They all make sense in the context of their movesets. Abel's Ultra 1 is a beefy EX Sky Fall. Viper's Burst Time U1 is just a combination of her 3 specials.

    Even Akuma's infamous, supposedly shark-jumping "ROFLcopter" is just a beefy Messatsu Gou Rasen.
    Watch Porkchop 'n Flatscreen: Episode 2 on Youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Z4Kj1Etrk
    VIEW my animations and music: http://emezie.com
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  • fistoftheryustarfistoftheryustar Joined: Posts: 2,170
    1. Shin shoryuken most likely. Hugo is able to wake back up from it; it's not as if he can take it without everything going black.

    2. Possibly. Senjutsu is literally along the lines of wizardry, so Oro may very well be able to travel via projectile among other things.

    3. More or less. Even by the end of 3S, Ryu has little to no interest to start training with Oro. It's been the other way around since the end of 2I with Oro's ending there. In other words, both of Oro's SF3 endings have his sights set on Ryu, but in both of Ryu's SF3 endings, just as with both of Ryu's SF4 endings, no future interest with Oro or past interactions with Gouken are indicated.

    Thanks for the reply!

    1.) Whenever I hear about the move online, people say Hugo is the only one that isnt KO'd by the Shin Shoryuken, though I really wonder how many Shin Shoryukens hes really done to begin with.

    2.) Well I dont see why not. I mean chances are they did it to look cool. But he's not hurt by his own energy and it moves him upward. But its one of those things we dont have much info on.

    3.) In all probability, I do believe Ryu would accept Oro's training, though he'd be reluctant to it at first. I just found it cool that Ryu does that kind of hardcore training. I'll have a question for everyone regarding Ryu's training.


    This is something that annoys be a bit about the whole Oro/Ryu/Gouki stuff.

    Most people claim that Oro and Ryu are more powerful than Gouki by Third Strike because Oro senses Gouki's Chi and has a good feel for his power, yet places more emphasis on Ryu as a warrior instead--believing he'll force him to fight with both arms in about 15 yrs or so with the proper training, while ignoring Gouki in the process. Most even believe Oro defeated Gouki, even though it was clear that it wasn't a real battle.

    I try to compare it to Dictator's obsession with Ryu, due to Ryu's fighting spirit and potential he shows when he fights. Only difference is Oro doesn't have evil intentions. Would that be a fair comparison?

    What's your take on those power comparisons, Vas? And anyone else?

    I both agree and disagree with what you said.

    All your views and points I agree with, except, you mention "most" people think this. I think the view that Oro and Ryu are stronger than Gouki, is new to me. Most of the time people say Oro and Gouki's skills are even and comparable. But most people I've seen online often say that Gouki is stronger than Ryu. Even the uninformed tend to say that. It depends on where you go online I guess :)

    The people that say Ryu is stronger because Oro sought him out... arent thinking about all aspects. Like we said, Akuma doesnt seem like the likely candidate to accept Oro's training. Also, perhaps Oro realizes if he taught Akuma, he'd kill lots of people and maybe morally thats not what tickles Oro's fancy. It could also just be a personal preference. He expressed interest in training Ryu in SF3:NG, something he sees in Ryu. It doesnt have to be justified really. Like we've all said, just because Oro chose Ryu, doesnt mean he's stronger than Akuma.




    Random stuff from the SFII Animated Movie:


    These are the endings from the SF II Animated Movie psx game. I saw these a few years ago and they got taken down. Glad to see them back.

    Also for fanart Ive been drawing alt costumes for Ryu. In one idea, I have Ryu with a cloak for traveling in harsh weather. I've seen it / Got inspiration from: SFII live action commercial from Japan, Ken from Animated movie, Ikeno drawing it as an alternate design for another Capcom character, and now in this game.
    My drawing:
    Mai cheats on Ryu - "Shin Shoryuken!"

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7115525&postcount=252
  • The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feminist Joined: Posts: 3,781
    Watch Porkchop 'n Flatscreen: Episode 2 on Youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Z4Kj1Etrk
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  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    Tier 3 characters can do some pretty amazing things, though...

    Somewhere in this thread is an Zero/Alpha account provided by vas describing a fight between Birdie and the dolls.

    The dolls had him suurounded, and some of them had firearms trained on Birdie. Before they could shoot him, he was able to LIFT A TRAIN and crush a bunch of the dolls and make an escape.

    Maybe not quite bullet dodging (perhaps the element of surprise prevented the dolls from shooting immediately), but this incident demonstrates ridiculous speed and strength from a "lower tiered" character. A large, "slow", unpopular character, no less.

    (Although Birdie is one of my absolute favorite characters, personally. Hakan, Hugo, Big Z, Birdie, Darun...those are my boys.)

    As I stated, I'm not discrediting the lower-tiered characters at all. Heck, I'd be impressed seeing Sean do what he does in person. The higher up you go, the more the feats they're capable of seem like something exaggerated, then up to something that would be believed to only be in fiction, to something improbable, all the way up to the seemingly impossible feats the Tier 1 characters can do. These guys represent the best martial artists in the world, and even some of the lower-tiered characters can do amazing things.

    Bullet-dodging is another thing altogether... it's rare when anybody can do it, as you basically have to react within a fraction of a second, which is why I do not see anybody but Tier 3 and above doing that. Sure, the other ones are capable of lifting heavy objects, killing large animals, and throwing punches not being able to be picked up on camera. These feats have been achieved by actual people... heck, Mas Oyama killed bulls in one punch. It seems like generally, those in Tier 3 and above push the bar beyond that, to the point where no actual person does a lot of the things they do, but is possible within the constraints of the SF universe. How many real people have honest-to-goodness dodged a bullet coming straight at them without it being sheer luck or dodging before the trigger was pulled?
    If an ultra isn't a beefed up super, then it usually just turns out to be a beefed up special/normal move. Or a combination of special/normal moves.

    Supers are also beefed up Special Moves as well, in most cases. This has been this way since they were introduced in SSF2X. It was the same way with Zero, but this convention was broken in SF3 where a lot of Super Arts were unique from the rest of their regular movesets. The Ultras just took it a step farther in most cases. Let's look at a few examples:

    Ryu: Hadouken -> Shinkuu Hadouken -> Metsu Hadouken
    Ken: Shoryuken -> Shoryu Reppa -> Shinryuken
    Cammy: Spiral Arrow/Cannon Spike -> Spin Drive Smasher -> Gyro Drive Smasher
    Zangief: Spinning Piledriver/Atomiic Suplex -> Final Atomic Buster -> Ultimate Atomic Buster

    Etc. Basically what I was trying to say when I originally made the comment is that they basically made the Ultras a more powerful version of their Supers, rather than, for instance, making Ryu's Super the Shinkuu Hadouken and his Ultra the Shin Shoryuken. Or Ken's Super as the Shoryu Reppa and his Ultra as the Shippu Jinrai Kyaku.

    EDIT:
    For those (like me) who missed this: The Super Street Fighter IV Character Relationship Chart (andriasang.com, 07.08.2010)

    Great find, thanks. :D I just wish it were in English, I'm curious to know what's up with some of these relationships... like what does Nash have to do with C. Viper? :/

    Still, whether you can read Japanese or not, you can see which characters are useless and/or out of place in the storyline.

    For those who can't read it, there are some characters that are linked that do not contain pictures... in the middle (below Ryu) is Nash (AKA Charlie), above Guy is Haggar, and above Cody is Jessica.
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    @FistoftheRyuStar

    One would argue that Dictator and Oro seek out Ryu not just because he is open-minded/confused but because Ryu's fighting potential is even greater than that of Akuma or any other character and they are able to recognize that. Remember, Dic doesn't want Ryu to be a psycho powered soldier, rather he wants Ryu's body to become host to his soul/psycho power because he recognizes Ryu as the fighter with the most potential capacity for power. Oro might've recognized the same feat and deemed Ryu worthy of his knowledge. With this information, one could say that Gouki is more powerful than Ryu presently but Ryu potential power is far greater than anything Gouki could imagine, hence why Gouki wants Ryu to give in to SNH so he could have a worthy opponent.

    Ideally I would love to see what happens if Oro did end up becoming Ryu's master for a while then dying knowing that he trained him well, very reminiscent of Yoda/Luke and a good prologue to a post-SF3 SF.
  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    One would argue that Dictator and Oro seek out Ryu not just because he is open-minded/confused but because Ryu's fighting potential is even greater than that of Akuma or any other character and they are able to recognize that. Remember, Dic doesn't want Ryu to be a psycho powered soldier, rather he wants Ryu's body to become host to his soul/psycho power because he recognizes Ryu as the fighter with the most potential capacity for power. Oro might've recognized the same feat and deemed Ryu worthy of his knowledge. With this information, one could say that Gouki is more powerful than Ryu presently but Ryu potential power is far greater than anything Gouki could imagine, hence why Gouki wants Ryu to give in to SNH so he could have a worthy opponent.

    Ideally I would love to see what happens if Oro did end up becoming Ryu's master for a while then dying knowing that he trained him well, very reminiscent of Yoda/Luke and a good prologue to a post-SF3 SF.

    From a storyline standpoint, you're probably spot on... it is often implied that Ryu has limitless potential as a martial artist in the plot.

    However, from a personal standpoint, I disagree that Ryu has more potential than Gouki. I believe in infinite human potential: if somebody wants something bad enough and they work hard for it, they can make it happen. Just look at the upper-tier characters who have achieved astounding feats by sheer training and focus... Gouki's nature-destroying fists, Oro's ability to live over a century, and Gen fighting off his disease as long as he did. Gouki, like Ryu, is always bettering himself... he's always becoming more powerful and inventing new techniques to decimate his opponents. SnH seems like a different moral code that was taken to an extreme in the SF plotline... rather than a set of principals in achieving victory at any cost, even if it means taking your opponent's life, it turned into a literal loss of humanity and becoming something of a demon (not literally, though the glowing eyes and purple ki may make people think otherwise.) They're two sides of the same coin: they both practice the same fighting art, both constantly better themselves, and they both desire worthy opponents to challenge. Ryu doesn't care if he wins or loses, he just wants to experience the fight... Gouki takes pride in vanquishing worthy foes, especially in death matches. From a general standpoint, they're really not too different aside from the morals they exhibit. Saying Gouki has less potential than Ryu because of SnH seems bogus to me, but then again, I didn't write the canon...

    I'm sure if we get a proper SF4 (as in, one that takes place after SF3), whether merely a story or in an actual game, Oro's training will show in Ryu and the day will come where he will have to face Gouki in a death match. It was touched on in Udon's SF comic that Ryu would have to choose whether to do things on Gouki's level by not holding back at all, even if it means killing Gouki, or to continue on his righteous path, even if it means the death of Ryu. Either way, they'll have to face each other someday, it's just a question of when and what Ryu will bring to the fight. We know that Gouki is a monster, and Ryu is pretty beastly as well, what with things like the Shin Shoryuken and Fist of the Wind... who knows what else he would learn from Oro? Perhaps Ryu's Shinkuu Hadouken would be more in line with what it is in the Marvel Versus series.

    We'll probably never see it happen except in Ryu Final and fanfiction, but personally, I think Ryu defeating Gouki and dying of his injuries afterward would be a worthy way for his legacy to end and to make way for the next generation of fighters.
  • Doctrine DarkDoctrine Dark Giving your waifu the pipeu Joined: Posts: 6,984
    http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1927/sf4relationshipstransla.jpg

    A translated version of the chart.

    Thanks for the feedback on Oro/Gouki/Ryu, guys. I agree with all of your points.
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  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1927/sf4relationshipstransla.jpg

    A translated version of the chart.

    Thanks for the feedback on Oro/Gouki/Ryu, guys. I agree with all of your points.

    Oh, thank you so much for that. :D I love the random thoughts and comments that are around... XD

    And I see once again, Dee Jay has no purpose in the story... Cammy's friend is a fan of his? What in the name of mohawk-braids does that have to do with anything? I noticed a lot of the relationships reference rival battles, many of which are also useless.

    How is it that C. Viper and Nash would've known each other, though?

    And you're welcome, Doctrine Dark... I'm glad to see my long tangents were not ignored. :D
  • ShockdingoShockdingo Freelance voice actor & Reploid.PHD in Q speculation. Joined: Posts: 1,647
    Wait, Nash and Viper knew each other? Is that at all true?
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  • SagatryuSagatryu Joined: Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    well if she's CIA agent she probably just knows Nash from his military files, and probably doesn't actually know him personally.
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  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    From a storyline standpoint, you're probably spot on... it is often implied that Ryu has limitless potential as a martial artist in the plot.

    However, from a personal standpoint, I disagree that Ryu has more potential than Gouki. I believe in infinite human potential: if somebody wants something bad enough and they work hard for it, they can make it happen. Just look at the upper-tier characters who have achieved astounding feats by sheer training and focus... Gouki's nature-destroying fists, Oro's ability to live over a century, and Gen fighting off his disease as long as he did. Gouki, like Ryu, is always bettering himself... he's always becoming more powerful and inventing new techniques to decimate his opponents. SnH seems like a different moral code that was taken to an extreme in the SF plotline... rather than a set of principals in achieving victory at any cost, even if it means taking your opponent's life, it turned into a literal loss of humanity and becoming something of a demon (not literally, though the glowing eyes and purple ki may make people think otherwise.) They're two sides of the same coin: they both practice the same fighting art, both constantly better themselves, and they both desire worthy opponents to challenge. Ryu doesn't care if he wins or loses, he just wants to experience the fight... Gouki takes pride in vanquishing worthy foes, especially in death matches. From a general standpoint, they're really not too different aside from the morals they exhibit. Saying Gouki has less potential than Ryu because of SnH seems bogus to me, but then again, I didn't write the canon...

    I'm sure if we get a proper SF4 (as in, one that takes place after SF3), whether merely a story or in an actual game, Oro's training will show in Ryu and the day will come where he will have to face Gouki in a death match. It was touched on in Udon's SF comic that Ryu would have to choose whether to do things on Gouki's level by not holding back at all, even if it means killing Gouki, or to continue on his righteous path, even if it means the death of Ryu. Either way, they'll have to face each other someday, it's just a question of when and what Ryu will bring to the fight. We know that Gouki is a monster, and Ryu is pretty beastly as well, what with things like the Shin Shoryuken and Fist of the Wind... who knows what else he would learn from Oro? Perhaps Ryu's Shinkuu Hadouken would be more in line with what it is in the Marvel Versus series.

    We'll probably never see it happen except in Ryu Final and fanfiction, but personally, I think Ryu defeating Gouki and dying of his injuries afterward would be a worthy way for his legacy to end and to make way for the next generation of fighters.


    Good points but what if Ryu's potential is not just a mental feat, his ambition and dedication could allow him to fulfill his alleged great potential but what if Ryu's potential is also a biological feat? Dictator is known to manipulate fighters and host bodies genetically, biologically and even cybernetically to achieve great power. I mean Dictator has mastered psycho power but even he recognizes that power is limited by biological boundaries and he has strived to genetically create the perfect host body in terms of power potential, the capacity to control and coexist with such tremendous power levels seems to be biologically linked in the SF universe (not only mentally, morally etc.). Otherwise why would Dictator want Ryu's physical body? Why would Gill and the Illuminati move forward with something like the G-Project? Why would Seth and Juri be cybernetically enhanced? Is it not to maximize the power levels of the fighters biologically as well? Augmenting a fighter, genetically (Abel, Seth, Cammy, Necro, 12, Dictator) or technologically (Seth, Juri, Viper) certainly has aided said fighters in the proverbial canon SF tier list.

    This beckons the question of why shouldn't Dictator just clone Ryu? And use the clone body? Unless something is lost in the cloning process or the technology is not perfect yet to be able to flawlessly duplicate. Then again, Dictator's body in SF4 is able to withstand the full extent of his psycho power apparently, which would make it more powerful potentially than his Alpha body? Though he still is after Ryu, implying that nothing he can create in a lab is as great as the natural thing.

    Going back to Ryu and Gouki, if Ryu's fighting/power potential equal to Gouki's mentally, would a biological difference account for Ryu having possibly greater potential? Basically do the top tier SFers have not only better skill, technique, stronger ambition and drive, do they also have a biological/genetic advantage? If I were to go by Dictator, Seth and Gill and their respective agendas/organizations the answer seems to be a resounding yes.
  • Doctrine DarkDoctrine Dark Giving your waifu the pipeu Joined: Posts: 6,984
    Can't Dictator gain more power through his Psycho Power? I know he wants to take Ryu's body, but his win-quote "My Psycho Power knows no limits!!", and Gouki's dialogue from his HD Remix ending seem to imply Dictator could improve his Psycho Power manipulation.

    I also recall the plot-guide even mentioning he trained hard before the Street Fighter 2 tournament.

    Daemos, the official Street Fighter 4 Training Guide implies Dictator's new body>Final Bison, but his opening Vanilla Prologue seems to imply he got out before his body was able to be modified to withstand the full-extent of his Psycho Power.
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  • SuperCapComSuperCapCom Joined: Posts: 164
    well if she's CIA agent she probably just knows Nash from his military files, and probably doesn't actually know him personally.

    ^ You're probably right about that, actually. Sorry, that was my mistake... I saw a link between Viper and Nash and jumped the gun a bit... the relationship only goes one way, with Viper's arrow pointing to Nash, indicating she knows of him, but not the other way around, it seems.

    Nash's reputation seems to have reached pretty far as it is, to the point where it said in the stuff about Alex Vas posted a while ago that he heard of him, if I remember right.
    Good points but what if Ryu's potential is not just a mental feat, his ambition and dedication could allow him to fulfill his alleged great potential but what if Ryu's potential is also a biological feat? Dictator is known to manipulate fighters and host bodies genetically, biologically and even cybernetically to achieve great power. I mean Dictator has mastered psycho power but even he recognizes that power is limited by biological boundaries and he has strived to genetically create the perfect host body in terms of power potential, the capacity to control and coexist with such tremendous power levels seems to be biologically linked in the SF universe. Otherwise why would Dictator want Ryu's physical body? Why would Gill and the Illuminati move forward with something like the G-Project? Why would Seth and Juri be cybernetically enhanced? Is it not to maximize the power levels of the fighters biologically as well?

    This beckons the question of why shouldn't Dictator just clone Ryu? And use the clone body? Unless something is lost in the cloning process or the technology is not perfect yet to be able to flawlessly duplicate. Then again, Dictator's body in SF4 is able to withstand the full extent of his psycho power apparently, which would make it more powerful potentially than his Alpha body?

    Going back to Ryu and Gouki, if Ryu's fighting/power potential equal to Gouki's mentally, would a biological difference account for Ryu having possibly greater potential? Basically do the top tier SFers have not only better skill, technique, stronger ambition and drive, do they also have a biological/genetic advantage? If I were to go by Dictator, Seth and Gill and their respective agendas/organizations the answer seems to be a resounding yes.

    That's a good point, though realistically, I think anybody could condition their body to any level they see fit. Maybe SF conventions are different where even in the possibility of endless training, each person can only reach a certain point from a biological point of view. I don't know if we know that for sure, but it's very plausible.

    Ryu's already pretty darn strong by Zero standards, since he defeated Sagat, albeit barely and with the aid of SnH. I can't help but feel as though it's a combination of everything that Vega (dictator) would want Ryu as his next body: his already impressive physical prowess for his age, his mental vulnerability at the time, the potential to tap into SnH due to his fighting style, etc. I mean, Ryu became famous overnight by being known as the guy that toppled Sagat... did Vega even know of Gouki's existence in SFZ? We know he knows Gouken, but Gouken's dead by then... and I know Juni scanned Gouki in Z3 or something, but did anything from that go back to Vega? Even then, would he care being focused on other things? Lots of questions I don't have answers to, at the moment...

    On the subject of enhancements, the philosophy on that is two-fold, much like a lot of other things in life. They can be used to make an already impressive physical specimen better, or to make a weak specimen on-par with non-enhanced beings who have conditioned their bodies naturally... a shortcut, if you will. Which of those each enhanced character applies to is really up to what you believe about the character... some may argue both sides for each one, especially without the necessary information. Take Juri, for instance, who is enhanced with the Feng Shui engine. Was she an already skilled fighter and just made beastly with that fake eye, or was she weak until S.I.N. picked her up and gave her that? Without solid proof of the state of being before the enhancements, it's left up to speculation.

    As far as making a Ryu clone... I'm assuming the technology is not perfected in the Zero series, judging how his second body is weaker than the first. However, one can argue that it has no logical significance and only exists as a device to add interest to the plot... then again, I think it'd be interesting to see Ryu vs. Vega in a Ryu body, ala the Udon comic only with SnH Ryu-hallucination being a sort of Psycho Ryu instead.

    For your last paragraph, let's also not forget that many times, those in Tier 1 have some sort of external and fantastic force pushing their abilities beyond that of humans and into the range of gods. SFZ3 Vega has the Psycho Drive, Gouki has fully-embraced SnH, Seth (who is not even Tier 1) is an artificial being to begin with but further enhanced by the Tanden Engine, Gill has powers from being one of the candidates to become a ruler of his organization (his fire, ice, and miracle powers) which was from genetic manipulation IIRC, and Ingrid for what she's worth actually is a goddess. Oro is the only one who really sticks out in this group, though as Vas mentioned, Senjutsu is essentially like wizardry, so perhaps that gives him an edge over somebody who follows the normal martial arts conventions.

    If you look at the tiers, you notice that those in Tier 2 really don't have access to special powers like that, they just got that way from being exceptional martial artists, aside from SF2 Vega and who-knows-what with Q. Mixed in with the rest of them are some exceptional powers as well (Rose's Soul Power, Juri's FS Engine, Dhalsim's Yoga, Blanka's electricity manipulation, etc.), but they're not the kinds of things you'd expect the guys in Tier 1 to do, which are basically unnatural at times.
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    A fighter's potential cannot simply be unlimited in and of itself, we are made of energy, you simply can't create energy from thin air in terms of physics, this means that there has to be some boundaries to how big of a hadouken Ryu can fire at any single time. Now are these boundaries related to Ryu's training and discipline alone? Or is there a biological aspect to the manipulation of ki in the SF universe.

    Dictator has mastered his psycho power, ruthlessly intelligent and an ambitious martial artist/fighter before he ever intended on ruling the world. Yet he recognized that even though he has mastered psycho power, he knew that his ability to manipulate this energy by sheer will and thought IS limited by his physical form. Bison was able to manipulate in Alpha 3 absurd amounts of power but his physical form simply could not handle it, no matter how strong our bodies get, human tissue is still fragile relative to other objects in the universe and inevitably it comes back to you. Now perhaps a fighter CAN train their bodies to withstand absurd amounts of power, but there has to be a threshold, the human factor has to kick in at one point.

    This is where the science in SF comes in; to be a great fighter you can either be disciplined, train hard all your life and sacrifice everything possibly in some cases your morality and humanity and if your hunger for power is absolute, you would use ANY means to achieve said power, even augmenting on a genetic level or something as simple as a cybernetic implant or two. The choices are endless for the fighters, in the case of Dictator at some point he either grew lazy or accepted the reality that no matter how hard he or anyone trains, there are certain obstacles that simply cannot be overcome, like laws of physics and he chose to bend the rules rather than break them, this the same character who has mastered the ability, be it martial arts or wizardry like Oro to pop out of one body and possess the body of another, in essence a poor man's immortality.

    Ninja Edit-

    I completely forgot about the goddess Ingrid (and with good reason) perhaps she interfered because Dictator was about to break one of "rules" and he took his bending too far? Though I still personally don't see her as an SF character (pure denial really).

    Also Gill and Urien were candidates because they displayed exceptional skill and intelligence but were further cultivated into great fighters with the use of martial arts, genetic manipulation etc. Dictator is the same really in a way, a martial artist like Gouki hungry for power and he dismembered his morality and humanity because he saw them as expendable and burdens to his agenda eventually his path lead him to the pursuit of power in general be it political, criminal and anything that would further enhance his power. Yet even though his organization is hellbent on world domination, Dictator still wants to be a great martial artist and still is focused on Ryu for this purpose. I would say he took the long winded path of training AND pursued shortcuts (mostly to overcome his humanity, the obstacle of body, aging, decay and time) as well unlike Seth for example whose very existence is a shortcut.

    Juri was cultivated into a fighter by SIN/Shadaloo, the cybernetic enhancements I think are intended to amplify her abilities exponentially, without them one could argue that she would be on par with Cammy and the Dolls, who did not receive these latest enhancements developed by SIN in Dic's absence.

    I think a better way of looking at tiers is not necessarily by comparing fighters to each other, rather by looking at their real, perceived or possible extraordinary abilities based on what we know of the said fighter. This very system is employed to categorize and rate extraterrestrial civilizations relative to us, where a category 0 civilization has just begun to tap natural resources (us) and a category 3 civilization would harness the power of entire galaxies and colonize them. Getting back on topic, this is a better way of understanding tiers of fighters in the SF universe, where a category zero fighter is a real life martial artist, while a category 2 fighter for example could destroy islands with a punch, or survive the pressure of deep sea or outer space, is seemingly immortal etc. a category 3 fighter for example would be able perhaps to destroy the entire planet (no SF yet to fill this category).
  • ArtayesArtayes Tiny Toon Joined: Posts: 1,116
    Though, I do have to wonder if Oro used both hands or not... this would give us a good indication of how powerful he truly is.

    obviously not. Oro stated in his ending with proper training from him that Ryu would be strong enough for him to use both hands in FIFTEEN years. Oro would not have needed to use both hands in the tourney against him.
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