Warriors Fate: Street Fighter story thread, revived

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  • ScissormanScissorman Neal D. Anderson Joined: Posts: 1,167
    Hey all, I probably haven't visited here in at least a few years, but I wanted to ask a favor.

    I'm aware(at least I think) that a couple of you own Gamest Mook World Series No. 4 Street Fighter III fan book. I've been buying some mooks lately, but I'd like to know what's in them, especially since shipping prices from Japan are absurd. When I looked up this particular Mook, a couple of auctions mentioned that illustrator Katsuya Terada contributed some art to the book. Is this true? If so, can I possibly see a scan of it? He's one of my favorite comic artists, and if he did fanart of my favorite game, well, that's exciting to me.

    Thanks in advance guys!
  • Lord VegaLord Vega Joined: Posts: 298
    Sorry Scissorman, I can't help with this particular mook. Pretty sure someone here will be more helpful. But since you mentioned that you're buying mooks/books and want to know what's in them, I think first you could decide what you want from them. Character's stories? Artwork? Interviews? I think that would be easier to indicate a book/mook for you....


    Changing the subject..... does anyone have the japanese version of Street Fighter Zero 1 and 2 for either Sega Saturn or Playstation 1? I have a question about the manuals. I remember when I rented Alpha 1 for SS, the characters (only the 10 playable ones, not the 3 secrets) had their moves displayed as drawings (instead of in-game captions) just like in the Super Famicon/Nintendo manuals. But, at least for the SS Alpha 1, those were black and white. My questions are:
    1: Are those drawings in color in the jap version of those manuals (either SS or PS1)?
    2: Do the Zero 1 ones have all the 13 characters?
    3: Does the Zero 2 manual also have the moves shown as drawings? Or are they in-game captions? (If memory serves me right, SFC manual has in-game captions).
    I'm planning to buy those and scan those small pictures, I always thought they were really cool back in the 90's.

    Any info would be really appreciated.
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 438
    Lord Vega wrote: »
    (If memory serves me right, SFC manual has in-game captions).
    The above is incorrect. The Japanese manuals for SF2 and SF2T for the Super Famicom have full color drawings of the special moves. The American manuals have monochrome drawings for SF2 and the same full color drawings for SF2T as the Japanese manual.

    About "Street Fighter Zero 2" for Sega Saturn:
    http://www.loveroms.com/extras/m/Sega%20Saturn/street%20fighter%20zero%202%20%5Bjapanese%5D.pdf
    Looks like this specific manual only has in-game screenshots. There are a handful of generic artworks, though.
  • ScissormanScissorman Neal D. Anderson Joined: Posts: 1,167
    Just looking for artwork. Do Vasili10 or Sano still post on here? I thought they had a copy of it.
  • Lord VegaLord Vega Joined: Posts: 298
    DRW wrote: »
    Lord Vega wrote: »
    (If memory serves me right, SFC manual has in-game captions).
    The above is incorrect. The Japanese manuals for SF2 and SF2T for the Super Famicom have full color drawings of the special moves. The American manuals have monochrome drawings for SF2 and the same full color drawings for SF2T as the Japanese manual.

    I was talking about the SFZ2 manual for Super Famicon.
    DRW wrote: »
    About "Street Fighter Zero 2" for Sega Saturn:
    http://www.loveroms.com/extras/m/Sega%20Saturn/street%20fighter%20zero%202%20%5Bjapanese%5D.pdf
    Looks like this specific manual only has in-game screenshots. There are a handful of generic artworks, though.

    The SFZ2 manual for Super Famicon is the same with in-game captions.... so I think that they did the drawings only for Zero 1.... Thanks DRW,
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,842
    Scissorman wrote: »
    Hey all, I probably haven't visited here in at least a few years, but I wanted to ask a favor.

    I'm aware(at least I think) that a couple of you own Gamest Mook World Series No. 4 Street Fighter III fan book. I've been buying some mooks lately, but I'd like to know what's in them, especially since shipping prices from Japan are absurd. When I looked up this particular Mook, a couple of auctions mentioned that illustrator Katsuya Terada contributed some art to the book. Is this true? If so, can I possibly see a scan of it? He's one of my favorite comic artists, and if he did fanart of my favorite game, well, that's exciting to me.

    Thanks in advance guys!

    I have All About SFIII New Generation and Gamest Mook 185 SF III
    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

    Visit us at the Street Fighter story thread! Click here!
  • ScissormanScissorman Neal D. Anderson Joined: Posts: 1,167
    I have All About. Is there any artwork, developmental or otherwise, unique to Gamest Mook 185?

    All About SF3 The Fighting Bible has a group shot sketch by Nishimura Kinu that isn't in any other book to my knowledge.
    tumblr_npecnmBesU1qhrwxqo1_500.jpg
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Remember me now, Yipes? Joined: Posts: 7,389
    ^Who dat above Ken? Mel Masters?
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yup
  • UltimaUltima Retired SF Aristocrat Joined: Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 2015
    Been a while. Sorry to dredge up a couple month old conversation, but it's not as though anything else exciting is going on right now (i.e. no real SFV story info yet and I don't feel like speculating; I'm just elated that Capcom has finally updated the weight values for their characters to more realistic values).

    ON the canonicity of OVAs, Capcom lolstupid, etc:
    The OVA's are not the best representations of any events because there's no reason to believe its events ever happened in the first place, if we go by the same logic any of the million comic books related to Street Fighter happened too.

    Note: I have not seen any of the SFIV OVAs despite having them all on my HDD. I also don't know SFIV's story that well - I had a good handle on what the game's story was supposedly like before the game was released (i.e. back when Gouken was basically a Jedi ghost), but since then, it's generally been a huge mess that I haven't bothered to follow seriously. That, and Vasilli's guide became unreadable. I have only seen a handful of endings and prologues, etc.

    I do not know if the OVAs are canon or not. They may or they may not be. I don't think it matters too much for the reasons that YagamiFire said. But it's not so much that it's a case of Capcom being "incompetent" per se. There are a couple things at work here:

    1) Unlike, say, a Mortal Kombat or a Metal Gear Solid, there is no ONE head honcho in control of Street Fighter. At least not with regards to story. Ono's in charge now (well, as of SFIV), but he's not a story guy. He's more of a hype man. There have been different teams and different story writers working on the various Street Fighters at different points in time. These writers, who may not all have the same competency, may or may not coordinate with each other fully, so stuff gets re-written, glossed over, or outright ignored. This is especially prevalent when the IP went dormant for so goddamn long.

    Furthermore, commissioning different companies to work on different media is different than doing stuff in-house. worstfighter is right: Canon or not, the real purpose of the OVAs (and comics) was to hype the SFIV games themselves. Capcom probably gave them a basic story framework to use and that's it. They could also have given them story info early then changed things later on. Any actual bearing on events depicted in-game is probably coincidence.

    2) While there is a general framework for the story, no one at Capcom cares enough about canon to be really strict about enforcing it. As I said, no one person is sufficiently in charge of the entire IP like Boon is for MK or Kojima is (was? :( ) for Metal Gear Solid. So whoever wants to do something with the IP is given fairly free reign to do what they want as long as they're respectful of the source material. See also: Udon comics.

    In addition, I think this is apparently a JPN cultural thing: When it comes to story, they seem to dislike explaining things in detail much. Especially in-game. It's not just Street Fighter, though SF is especially bad since they don't like to explain anything in-game. Final Fantasy games have a LOT of crap in them that's not explained that only get real attention in their Ultimania books, though at least the games are generally better at conveying their stories than SF games have done to date. Of course, that's most likely because the story is a focus in FF, not so in SF.
    Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,842
    Basic Street Fighter rule is: Unfortunately Capcom sucks at putting together competent stories for Street Fighter.

    Hopefully they get better at this. They should get their shit together and get both a series bible (doubt they have one) and a story director. Tighten this shit up STAT.
    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

    Visit us at the Street Fighter story thread! Click here!
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ultima wrote: »

    Furthermore, commissioning different companies to work on different media is different than doing stuff in-house. worstfighter is right: Canon or not, the real purpose of the OVAs (and comics) was to hype the SFIV games themselves. Capcom probably gave them a basic story framework to use and that's it. They could also have given them story info early then changed things later on. Any actual bearing on events depicted in-game is probably coincidence.

    I generally agree with everything you said but I am inclined to comment on this.

    Capcom do not make anime, but they chose anime as the primary medium to relate the stories of SF4 - They could've chosen CGI or they could've gone with still images, but they chose anime this time round. They commissioned Studio 4C, like they commissioned Dimps, like the commissioned the voice actors, to all work in tandem to co-create 1 game. The final product and all the OVAs were ultimately produced by Yoshinori Ono, and released BY Capcom to the public, alongside and inside their game. They share too many of the same writers, animators, directors, actors, and other staff to simply be dismissed. If the argument that third party = not canon is to be believed, then SF4 by default is NOT canon because it was co-developed by a third party and so is SF5. But that doesn't make sense now does it?

    All the story related OVA have a chronological order for their events given to them BY Capcom in relation to their games. Why would Capcom do this if these things weren't meant to be part of the whole? I think many people dismiss the OVAs because they didn't like the character portrayals, people expected more I guess after such a long absence, and also because they equate something like TTTB or the Juri OVA with other animes that were licensed out (but not released by or for Capcom). Well Capcom tried, they put the most effort in SF4's story but lo and behold how quick people dismiss it as non-canon or worse, completely incoherent. Like you said, the Japanese don't like explaining things too much, and that is lost on many people observing SF4 and SF's story in general (which is in bad shape, but no where near as what some people want to make it out to be).

    Anyway, you said it yourself that you haven't seen the story OVAs. If you manage the time watch them in order (Chun-Li/Sakura/Viper Aftermath OVAs > TTTB > Juri > SF4 Prologues > SF4 Endings) and perhaps you will see the sense in it all.
  • ToreyBeansToreyBeans I'mma make u buy me lunch later! Joined: Posts: 713
    Sooooo.... Who here feels that SF5 is before or after SF3? Makes sense to have it before SF3 so we can get some closure on the SF4 story. Besides, Shadaloo is still around in 5 and during 3rd Strike Urien mentioned that Chun-Li defeated "that organization". Thoughts?
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    We had confirmation a few weeks ago actually from one of the Capcom staff that the game takes place before SF3 but after SF4.

    A lot of the story discussion has moved to the sf5 story thread in the sf5 forum.
  • ToreyBeansToreyBeans I'mma make u buy me lunch later! Joined: Posts: 713
    Good to know - looks like I've got some digging to do!
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,842
    Still waiting desperately for a full-on reboot
    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

    Visit us at the Street Fighter story thread! Click here!
  • True TatsuTrue Tatsu Senpuu or Seppuku Joined: Posts: 1,655
    So... I was playing USFIV arcade mode with Makoto and beat Ryu. She said something about her grandfather having told her all about him... who is this over 60 year elder that told her about this nearly 30 year old world warrior?
    :sad: tier bending :bluu: the saltiest of techniques :shake:
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    Hey idk if anybody could be able to help on this, but I'm trying to figure out what Seth's stage is all about. I've been curious as to what the crazy contraption was at the center of the stage, and to what were in the tanks hooked up to the contraption.
    I've recently come across some concept sketches I hope someone would be able to translate if they had the time.
    Interesting to point out that one of the sketches has the center piece hands replaced with a Shadaloo symbol suggesting the stage was intended to be directly related to Shadaloo instead of S.I.N.
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_15.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_20.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_16.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_18.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_17.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_21.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_19.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_07.jpg
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • AJ1AJ1 Joined: Posts: 85
    For all those who think SF1 isn't a tournament plot, I have this to ask: Are you allowed to have a street fight in the following locales:

    1. Mount Rushmore (Mike's stage).

    2. Any of the five likes near Mount Fuji (one of which is Geki's stage).

    3. The Great Wall of China (Lee's stage).

    4. Royal Palace, Bangkok (Sagat's stage).

    Because I'm pretty sure you can't unless they've been rented out as revenues for a tournament, and the only for stages like that to work is that there has to be a tournament.
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    Street Fighter Alpha 2 is confirmed not to take place in a tournament setting, and you've got a stage for a street fight in the middle of Osaka.
    sfz-guy.gif
    To my knowledge street fighting anywhere is illegal, but I don't think you would title a game Street Fighter, if all the fights are officially sanctioned like in a tournament.
    If anything, the matches in the original Street Fighter follows Ryu on a series of Mutual combat meetings against fighters he meets throughout his travels.
    For the title of the game to be called "Mutual Combat" to describe the events taking place makes the game sound too much like a PG version of Mortal Kombat.
    Therefore the game is called Street Fighter, and for good reason.
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • AJ1AJ1 Joined: Posts: 85
    bakfromon wrote: »
    Street Fighter Alpha 2 is confirmed not to take place in a tournament setting, and you've got a stage for a street fight in the middle of Osaka.
    sfz-guy.gif
    To my knowledge street fighting anywhere is illegal, but I don't think you would title a game Street Fighter, if all the fights are officially sanctioned like in a tournament.
    If anything, the matches in the original Street Fighter follows Ryu on a series of Mutual combat meetings against fighters he meets throughout his travels.
    For the title of the game to be called "Mutual Combat" to describe the events taking place makes the game sound too much like a PG version of Mortal Kombat.
    Therefore the game is called Street Fighter, and for good reason.

    Actually, that's from Zero/Alpha: Warrior's Dreams. And in the case of all of those games, not all stages are arenas. Like for instance, Cammy's stage in Super Street Fighter II-X/Turbo.

    Also, I'm using stages as evidence because of DRW's insistence SF1 was no tournament.
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 438
    AJ1 wrote: »
    For all those who think SF1 isn't a tournament plot, I have this to ask: Are you allowed to have a street fight in the following locales
    I don't think you can apply real world logic to explain a plot detail in "Street Fighter".
    In reality, fighting in a temple or in a palace wouldn't be allowed even if the setting is a tournament. So, in this regard the "Street Fighter" games are unrealistic anyway.

    In reality, you wouldn't be allowed to fight in a palace. But likewise, in a sanctioned tournament you would still not be allowed to fight in a Buddhist temple.
    Furthermore, a sanctioned tournament wouldn't be held in the market district of a Chinese town with people on bicycles driving by.

    By the way, the fact that "Street Fighter Alpha" has the Chinese Wall as well, even though this game isn't a tournament either, pretty much proves that in the "Street Fighter" universe, fighting in these areas is not an uncommon thing.

    So, sorry, but this logic just doesn't work. You cannot prove a plot point about canon by pointing out that this or that detail wouldn't be possible in the real world.
    In the real world, a tournament wouldn't take place all over the world either. But that still doesn't mean "Street Fighter II" isn't a tournament. In the same way, your arguments don't prove that "Street Fighter I" has to be a tournament.

    But answer me this, which is a question not based on real world logic, but that is valid even in the "Street Fighter" universe: If it is a tournament, why do the "Street Fighter I" battles have no audience at all? There are no people in the backgrounds watching the fights. Why?
  • AJ1AJ1 Joined: Posts: 85
    DRW wrote: »
    AJ1 wrote: »
    For all those who think SF1 isn't a tournament plot, I have this to ask: Are you allowed to have a street fight in the following locales
    I don't think you can apply real world logic to explain a plot detail in "Street Fighter".
    In reality, fighting in a temple or in a palace wouldn't be allowed even if the setting is a tournament. So, in this regard the "Street Fighter" games are unrealistic anyway.

    In reality, you wouldn't be allowed to fight in a palace. But likewise, in a sanctioned tournament you would still not be allowed to fight in a Buddhist temple.

    Furthermore, a sanctioned tournament wouldn't be held in the market district of a Chinese town with people on bicycles driving by.

    By the way, the fact that "Street Fighter Alpha" has the Chinese Wall as well, even though this game isn't a tournament either, pretty much proves that in the "Street Fighter" universe, fighting in these areas is not an uncommon thing.

    So, sorry, but this logic just doesn't work. You cannot prove a plot point about canon by pointing out that this or that detail wouldn't be possible in the real world.

    In the real world, a tournament wouldn't take place all over the world either. But that still doesn't mean "Street Fighter II" isn't a tournament. In the same way, your arguments don't prove that "Street Fighter I" has to be a tournament.

    But wouldn't public locales be able to earn mullah by hosting fights? And in the case of using the Royal Palace in Thailand, the reason that happened was because to the Thai people, their Emperor included, Sagat's a hero for winning the Muay Thai Settlement Wars 17 times.

    But answer me this, which is a question not based on real world logic, but that is valid even in the "Street Fighter" universe: If it is a tournament, why do the "Street Fighter I" battles have no audience at all? There are no people in the backgrounds watching the fights. Why?

    Probably because Capcom didn't think much for the story when they made it back in 1987, and that there were limitations on drawing the 2D planes. It's also like how both Mortal Kombat and Tekken did the whole "you have to wait until the next installment to find out how the current installment ends" gimmick. In Street Fighter's case, All There in the Manual.
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 438
    AJ1 wrote: »
    But wouldn't public locales be able to earn mullah by hosting fights?
    Again: It does not matter.

    We're discussing a question about "Street Fighter" canon here and you try to backup your idea with questions about what real world tournaments would work like. This is totally unimportant. It's pure conjecture and doesn't help us at all.
    Ryu Hayabusa in "Ninja Gaiden" walks through an American city and slices people, yet they never address this in the cutscenes.
    You cannot apply real world rules to this and call it a day.

    And by the way: I already showed you that fighting in any random area is a common occurence in the "Street Fighter" universe. So your argument that SF1 has to be a tournament because otherwise it wouldn't be allowed to fight in these locations is absolutely null and void. This statement is disproven by the many games that have equally unlikely stages and that are not tournaments.
    AJ1 wrote: »
    Probably because Capcom didn't think much for the story when they made it back in 1987
    Which basically proves my point, kind-of. If Capcom didn't think much of the story, then where does the whole "This is a tournament" come from?
    AJ1 wrote: »
    and that there were limitations on drawing the 2D planes.
    This is bullshit. It doesn't matter whether you fill your background with tiles that look like objects or with tiles that look like people. Especially in a game like "Street Fighter I" where the background seems to be one layer and not a collection of separate objects.
    If this was a tournament, they could at least have included one token stage with some audience. But there's nothing. The big final battle of this famous worldwide tournament is held in front of no people at all.

    And the ending explicitly says that you cannot rest in your glory since there's always someone trying to take away your title. Which would be an impossibility if it was an actual tournament since you couldn't lose your title until the next tournament.
    AJ1 wrote: »
    It's also like how both Mortal Kombat and Tekken did the whole "you have to wait until the next installment to find out how the current installment ends" gimmick. In Street Fighter's case, All There in the Manual.
    This paragraph has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is a completely different thing.
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    DRW wrote: »
    But answer me this, which is a question not based on real world logic, but that is valid even in the "Street Fighter" universe: If it is a tournament, why do the "Street Fighter I" battles have no audience at all? There are no people in the backgrounds watching the fights. Why?
    To be fair, there is an audience during the first bonus round before leaving Japan.

    31bonuslevels-9c.jpg
    Strange they all would be watching Ryu chop through a stack of tiles, instead of watching one of his fights.

    I still don't think that SF1 represents a tournament, there's just nothing to go on that would suggest it. The distinction between Ryu and Ken has always been; Ken: the U.S Martial Arts Champ, and Ryu: the man who defeated Sagat. Ryu is never referenced as any sort of "Champion" throughout the story, but the endeavor of defeating Sagat is so note worthy in itself that he garners fame from just that act alone. This is why Ken wasn't included in the story of SF1, because he's off fighting in a tournament becoming a champion, while Ryu is off proving himself to challengers from around the world, "no-holds-barred".

    Ryu has always been in reference to the old ways of martial arts, in contrast to Ken's new. During old times very few matches between masters of an art took place in a ring, but they did so in the streets. It wasn't unheard of for a fighter to travel from place to place challenging different schools and disciplines of Martial Arts in order to test themselves against another. During these times there weren't a whole ton of fighting tournaments going around, if any. If someone were to challenge another to a fight it would more than likely take place in a public area, the most common being the streets.
    AJ1 wrote: »
    And in the case of using the Royal Palace in Thailand, the reason that happened was because to the Thai people, their Emperor included, Sagat's a hero for winning the Muay Thai Settlement Wars 17 times.
    I actually like this point, it's not too dissimilar to the reason why someone like Zangief would be able to hold a fight in the middle of a steel processing factory during work hours.
    AJ1 wrote: »
    Actually, that's from Zero/Alpha: Warrior's Dreams. And in the case of all of those games, not all stages are arenas. Like for instance, Cammy's stage in Super Street Fighter II-X/Turbo.

    Lol I always get the Alpha games confused. Anyways, Cammy's "Tubo" stage is actually a bridge that's only a meter wide, and that's fought on during a tournament!
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,842
    Pretty confirmed that SF1 is Ryu's travels post-Gouken-training culminating in his match against Sagat. While this is happening, Ken is in the US whooping ass in the US championship
    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

    Visit us at the Street Fighter story thread! Click here!
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    edited November 2015
    bakfromon wrote: »
    Hey idk if anybody could be able to help on this, but I'm trying to figure out what Seth's stage is all about. I've been curious as to what the crazy contraption was at the center of the stage, and to what were in the tanks hooked up to the contraption.
    I've recently come across some concept sketches I hope someone would be able to translate if they had the time.
    Interesting to point out that one of the sketches has the center piece hands replaced with a Shadaloo symbol suggesting the stage was intended to be directly related to Shadaloo instead of S.I.N.
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_15.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_20.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_16.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_18.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_17.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_21.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_19.jpg
    SFIV_Stages_Concept_Art_07.jpg
    Well guys, I've found some answers to a good portion of my questions, if you want to check them out I've compiled them below.
    bakfromon wrote: »
    The diagram of a body is actually a depiction of the Qi Gong meridians, and the four symbols next to it are listed as; Ājñā, Viśuddha, Svādhiṣṭhāna, and Mūlādhāra are 4 out of the 7 Chakra's of Hindu tantra. Next to each listing is कुण्डलिनी; which is Sanskrit for Kundalini which is a "spiritual awakening" where one can reach enlightenment. It was once said in the Super Street Fighter II manual for SNES that a Kundalini was how Dhalsim acquired his power, he also references this in the Street Fighter II V animated series. So whatever the machine is doing it's keeping track of those aspects of spiritual energy. I think it's fair to mention for people who don't want to watch the video to provide a brief synopsis of the scene I speak of.
    Dhalsim sits under a tree, focusing on his breathing. One of the camera angles briefly makes it look like he's levitating, but as Ken and Ryu watch they do not act like anything is unusual. I'm going to assume its either just an odd angle, or a subtle sight gag.
    Dhalsim continues to breathe, and after a few moments he gets the same flame and glowy effect that Yo Sen Kai got back in episode 6. After a few moments of funky effects, a line of energy shoots skyward from Dhalsim. There's a quick cut to Ryu, as he displays a similar discharge. He is clearly surprised by it. Ken does not react, so I assume this is something that the audience gets to see, but those not sensitive to Hadou do not. Dhalsim goes on to explain that this breathing technique allows one to focus their Ki, and in turn they can turn it into Hadou. This technique is called Kundalini, but he is not sure if this is the Hadou Ryu and Ken seek, as there are other forms.
    At this point Ryu yells out to Dhalsim with an uncharacteristic amount of panic in his voice. Something is wrong with his body. He feels like his body is going to explode at any moment, raw energy building up in his stomach, ready to burst. In what I think is a first for the series, he admits to being scared.

    Ryu thinks this sensation is Hadou, and his instincts are telling him that he has to shoot it out of himself, somehow. Cue some dramatic violin. Ken and Dhalsim look on as Ryu throws his hands in the air and waves them like he just doesn't care.
    Listed directly under the Qigong meridian diagram is "PuraaNa", or Purāṇas (belonging in old or ancient times, ie. mythology) with the Sanskrit text पुराण next to it and partially below it (although what follows after I have yet to decipher as it is mirrored and flipped). The large wall terminal in the back is what I assume are Shadaloo/ S.I.N stations around the globe. The reason I say this is because the marked locations correspond to places like the Secret Laboratory, The Historic Distillery, The Small Airfield, and among others (Southeast Asia) which have some connection with Shadaloo or S.I.N.
    The analog clock thing in the sketch is numbered in Japanese from 1-10, so I assume it's a meter to measure something on the center piece machine.

    *EDIT: There are three meters under each of the four Kundalini symbols that correspond to one of the Eight Trigrams, or Bagua. The concept art for the "clocks" has the kanji 氣 for "Qi" listed on the them, but the in game model has something totally different. Although this kanji does appear within the bottom left corner of the Qigong meridian diagram, both in game and in concept art. The in game versions of the "clock" appear to be in the style of Taoist talisman, or Fulu.
    PlayStation28R29Home_Picture_26-01-2013_19-02-27.jpg
    TaoistCosmologicalDiagram.jpg
    PlayStation28R29Home_Picture_26-01-2013_19-01-46.jpg
    mingdangdo-small.jpg08fd2ed66bb592c77b0b7fd87db89eeb_640.jpg
    mZ2Qyai.jpg
    aDFSC6E.jpg
    Post edited by bakfromon on
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    edited November 2015
    Did Adon ever get to challenge Akuma after the Alpha series like he wanted to?
    He seems to completely given up on this during SF4, although it's kinda ironic Akuma's double roundhouse is identical to Adon's during SF1.
    adon-o.gifakuma-o.gif
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Remember me now, Yipes? Joined: Posts: 7,389
    bakfromon wrote: »
    Did Adon ever get to challenge Akuma after the Alpha series like he wanted to?
    He seems to completely given up on this during SF4, although it's kinda ironic Akuma's double roundhouse is identical to Adon's during SF1.

    He finds Akuma during Alpha, but Akuma doesn't consider him worthy.
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    bakfromon wrote: »
    Did Adon ever get to challenge Akuma after the Alpha series like he wanted to?
    He seems to completely given up on this during SF4, although it's kinda ironic Akuma's double roundhouse is identical to Adon's during SF1.

    He finds Akuma during Alpha, but Akuma doesn't consider him worthy.

    Does he truly find Akuma? His win quote to him in SSF4 suggests he would want nothing to do with SnH or Akuma. Where as his Alpha counterpart was almost as infatuated with the idea of defeating Akuma and claiming SnH, to the point where it rivaled his obsession with defeating Sagat. I just find it ironic that the attack Akuma uses in SF4, in a way, originated with Adon way back in SF1.
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 438
    I've got a new story-related question and as mostly, it refers to SF2:

    What is actually the nature of the SF2 tournament? (In the way it was seen pre-SF4 where its final battle was merged with the end of SFA3.)

    Bison hosts it, right? But it isn't held on his personal ground like "Mortal Kombat", but all over the world.

    So, did he announce this tournament to the public and then it was a major event? Or was it some private thing where he sent invitations to all participants and they duked it out among themselves like they always do? And the spectators maybe don't even know that they're specifically watching a tournament fight instead of just a regular fight.

    The backstories of the fighters seem to suggest that this tournament has a certain popularity. For example, Honda participates to make sumo more famous. And Zangief even gets visited by Gorbachev in the end.

    But on the other hand, none of the background graphics suggest that this is anything but a regular street fight between two combatants.
    Even the final battle takes place in front of some palace/tourist attraction site, with maybe 20 people in the audience. At least this final battle could have been held in a stadium to show that this is really a major event. But instead, it looks like your average fighting place where two protagonists just happened to meet each other.

    Another thing: In how far was Bison's involvement common knowledge? I mean, he's the final opponent, so it must have been known somehow, right? But he's a criminal. How would the public react to that?
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2015
    DRW wrote: »
    I've got a new story-related question and as mostly, it refers to SF2:

    What is actually the nature of the SF2 tournament? (In the way it was seen pre-SF4 where its final battle was merged with the end of SFA3.)

    Bison hosts it, right? But it isn't held on his personal ground like "Mortal Kombat", but all over the world.

    So, did he announce this tournament to the public and then it was a major event? Or was it some private thing where he sent invitations to all participants and they duked it out among themselves like they always do? And the spectators maybe don't even know that they're specifically watching a tournament fight instead of just a regular fight.

    The backstories of the fighters seem to suggest that this tournament has a certain popularity. For example, Honda participates to make sumo more famous. And Zangief even gets visited by Gorbachev in the end.

    But on the other hand, none of the background graphics suggest that this is anything but a regular street fight between two combatants.
    Even the final battle takes place in front of some palace/tourist attraction site, with maybe 20 people in the audience. At least this final battle could have been held in a stadium to show that this is really a major event. But instead, it looks like your average fighting place where two protagonists just happened to meet each other.

    Another thing: In how far was Bison's involvement common knowledge? I mean, he's the final opponent, so it must have been known somehow, right? But he's a criminal. How would the public react to that?

    Here's my take:

    There was definitely and absolutely a worldwide 'World Warrior' fighting tournament (Dan remarks to Blanka in his SF4 prologue how he is bitter for not being invited to it, Fei Long made a movie about his experience mentioned in his SF4 prologue).

    Shadaloo's involvement as the sponsors was most likely secret. Some had their suspicions like Guile/Chun-Li and they joined to find out the truth. Others joined purely for the fight, completely oblivious to Shadaloo. I doubt Bison was officially part of this tournament either, rather he was overseeing things because he had his own agenda. Originally, his motivation was to look for fighters to kidnap and brainwash into Shadaloo soldiers. By the time Alpha 3 came into the picture, that motive evolved and included a more personalized motive of finding a perfect host body (one that only the strongest fighters can provide). These motives had to be secret otherwise no one would've joined. Only those investigating Shadaloo or are personally aware of Bison would've known or strongly suspected his involvement or that the tournament set up was criminal in nature.

    The final opponent wasn't fixed either, because this is a tournament so 2 fighters would fight their way to the top as the finalists then duke it out for the title. In reality, there was no 'final boss'. Bison would've likely only intervened at the end to claim his prize, the winning fighter's mind and body. He would also likely want to test the champion himself before committing to the abduction.

    There was likely personalized invites to make sure certain fighters are aware of it, but also they probably did what SIN did and just advertised into through public means. Flyers, ads, word of mouth etc. It was definitely an international affair much like SIN's tournament, and there was certainly prestige associated with winning it.

    The tournament likely took place all over the world and only moved to Thailand because that would probably be the point of convergence for many stories. Even without Shadaloo's involvement we can assume it was going to end up in Thailand because Sagat would likely have been in the final stages and I suspect they would fight in his hometown. The Shadaloo aspect of course also plays into the Thailand situation because little did anyone know that there lies their main base of operations, and that an international armed force was just waiting to strike.



  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 438
    Pretty interesting thoughts.
    Daemos wrote: »
    Others joined purely for the fight, completely oblivious to Shadaloo.
    Funny little side note: While the game reflects what you say, the art and story book "Complete File Street Fighter II" gave every fighter a connection to M. Bison.
    Daemos wrote: »
    Originally, his motivation was to look for fighters to kidnap and brainwash into Shadaloo soldiers.
    Is it mentioned somewhere that this was true before "Alpha" came out? Because as far as I see, the whole brainwashing thing was invented for Masaomi Kanzaki's manga. The game itself gives no indication that Bison wants to brainwash the fighters. It's more that those are the opponents that he needs to overcome before world domination.
    Daemos wrote: »
    The final opponent wasn't fixed either, because this is a tournament so 2 fighters would fight their way to the top as the finalists then duke it out for the title. In reality, there was no 'final boss'.
    But the four grand masters do have a special place in the tournament after all. So, maybe it wasn't just a regular single elimination tournament. It could just as well have been a tournament where they fight until only three fighters remain. Those fight against the first three grand masters. Then the winner of the Balrog fight vs. the winner of the Vega fight. Then that winner against the winner of the Sagat fight. And then that winner against M. Bison.
    Daemos wrote: »
    Bison would've likely only intervened at the end to claim his prize, the winning fighter's mind and body. He would also likely want to test the champion himself before committing to the abduction.
    At least in the actual SF2 games, Bison seems to be a regular participant: Ryu's and Dhalsim's ending both show him on the winners' podium. So, it's not like Bison just jumped in and challenged the tournament winner. He was a participant himself.
    Either he was a regular fighter and just happened to be the one to get to the finals. Or he, as the host, reserved the right to fight in the final, Shang Tsung-style. But it was definitely not some surprise thing, like in: The last remaining fighter had just defeated Sagat and now Bison steps out of the shadows and challenges that fighter right here.
    I mean, the fight against Bison takes place on a separate background. So, the battle was planned. The question is, though: When did it become known that Bison would be the final opponent?
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    edited December 2015
    Would anyone know the story behind this picture?
    I know its from a Secret File. It's reminiscent to the R.Mika and Nedeshiko faux magazine cover for SFA3 Secret File.
    IP5CBxe.jpg?2
    rmika-ex11.jpg

    All's I got from it was the blonde guy's name, I think it's "Haugen"
    10016602.jpg
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 535 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Omg that fake newsletter is SOOO cute. I'm only here for a quick Visit, so I'm just gonna say Ummmm I think that's a play on Hulk Hogan's name and it sounds like Pulk Hogan. Lemme see, in a fight between Gief and Hogan, Gief knocked him off the ring with his double lariat. Then Hogan went berserk and was just going around, I think theres something about a woman who couldn't get away from Hogan's berserking fast enough, when Sean jumped kicked and knocked him out (Poor Pulk) Everyone there didn't know it was Sean they were just saying he reminds them of Ken Masters. ok bye see ya guys in a while!
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
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  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,324
    Come on guys, no talks about the new Story Mode trailer?

    Also, anyone following SF Unlimited? The latest issue seems to imply that Ken Masters is a racist.
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 438
  • ShockdingoShockdingo Freelance voice actor & Reploid.PHD in Q speculation. Joined: Posts: 1,562
    Wait what? Ken's implied to be a racist?!
    "Bison drinks DELICIOUS expired milk on tuesdays while driving trucks into wandering fighters." - m121akuma

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  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,324
    Shockdingo wrote: »
    Wait what? Ken's implied to be a racist?!

    The gist is that Ken and Guile came to Balrog's new company that he started following Shadaloo's demise under suspicion that now he was tied to the Illuminati. Balrog welcomed them into the office and told them that he was willing to keep the past in the past for the sake of business, then Ken reveals that he bought his company earlier in the day and now Balrog was his underling. Balrog threw a fit and they fought, all the while Ken was rubbing his boss status over Balrog in his face. Balrog gains the upper hand until Ken hits Guren Senpukyaku and knocks Balrog out the window. Cammy manages to catch Balrog and so the interrogation begins. Throughout the interrogation, Ken messes with Balrog's stuff for absolutely no reason other than that he can.

    So basically, three white blond folks gang up unprovoked on Balrog and then play the victim when he gets upset over it. Oh, and shoutouts to Sean being Ken's personal driver and bagboy.
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 1,932
    .
    Psychoblue wrote: »
    Shockdingo wrote: »
    Wait what? Ken's implied to be a racist?!

    The gist is that Ken and Guile came to Balrog's new company that he started following Shadaloo's demise under suspicion that now he was tied to the Illuminati. Balrog welcomed them into the office and told them that he was willing to keep the past in the past for the sake of business, then Ken reveals that he bought his company earlier in the day and now Balrog was his underling. Balrog threw a fit and they fought, all the while Ken was rubbing his boss status over Balrog in his face. Balrog gains the upper hand until Ken hits Guren Senpukyaku and knocks Balrog out the window. Cammy manages to catch Balrog and so the interrogation begins. Throughout the interrogation, Ken messes with Balrog's stuff for absolutely no reason other than that he can.

    So basically, three white blond folks gang up unprovoked on Balrog and then play the victim when he gets upset over it. Oh, and shoutouts to Sean being Ken's personal driver and bagboy.

    So you're implying that Ken, Guile, and Cammy were all made out to be racist, or just Ken?
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,815
    Everyone's a little bit racist.
  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,324
    bakfromon wrote: »
    .
    Psychoblue wrote: »
    Shockdingo wrote: »
    Wait what? Ken's implied to be a racist?!

    The gist is that Ken and Guile came to Balrog's new company that he started following Shadaloo's demise under suspicion that now he was tied to the Illuminati. Balrog welcomed them into the office and told them that he was willing to keep the past in the past for the sake of business, then Ken reveals that he bought his company earlier in the day and now Balrog was his underling. Balrog threw a fit and they fought, all the while Ken was rubbing his boss status over Balrog in his face. Balrog gains the upper hand until Ken hits Guren Senpukyaku and knocks Balrog out the window. Cammy manages to catch Balrog and so the interrogation begins. Throughout the interrogation, Ken messes with Balrog's stuff for absolutely no reason other than that he can.

    So basically, three white blond folks gang up unprovoked on Balrog and then play the victim when he gets upset over it. Oh, and shoutouts to Sean being Ken's personal driver and bagboy.

    So you're implying that Ken, Guile, and Cammy were all made out to be racist, or just Ken?
    Guile and Cammy were dragged into it, Ken was the primary aggressor.
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ken is not a white blond though. Ken is a mixed race half Caucasian, half Asian man who spent a big part of his life in Japan away from the racist culture of the United States. His natural hair is dark and he dyes it blond. Don't project your own distorted view of the world onto these fictional characters.

    Ken treated Balrog like shit because Balrog is a "villain" with an extensive and likely terrifying criminal history.
  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,324
    edited February 2016
    Daemos wrote: »
    Ken is not a white blond though. Ken is a mixed race half Caucasian, half Asian man who spent a big part of his life in Japan away from the racist culture of the United States. His natural hair is dark and he dyes it blond. Don't project your own distorted view of the world onto these fictional characters.

    Ken treated Balrog like shit because Balrog is a "villain" with an extensive and likely terrifying criminal history.
    It was meant to satirical to highlight how awful Udon's writing has become the past few years. I get what they were TRYING to do, but the way they contrived them fighting was so bad that Ken came off as the bad guy more than Balrog did. It wouldn't have been as bad if Balrog didn't come up front with saying he was willing to let bygones be bygones for the sake of business.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Remember me now, Yipes? Joined: Posts: 7,389
    You're missing the part where Balrog tried to lie/avoid giving information to Ken/Guile
  • I<iShiDoI<iShiDo MVP Joined: Posts: 161
    edited February 2016
    Ok playing through the story mode of Nash. So is his Alpha 2 ending now the true one and he was actually dead in Alpha 3 already?

    Edit
    Found this. They are even talking about A2

    http://heavy.com/games/2016/01/street-fighter-v-full-launch-roster-breakdown-from-associate-producer-peter-rosas-capcom/11/

    So how is Aloha 3 fitting in the whole story?

  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I<iShiDo wrote: »
    Ok playing through the story mode of Nash. So is his Alpha 2 ending now the true one and he was actually dead in Alpha 3 already?


    Alpha 2 is true now, and Alpha 3 (like a lot of that game's story details) has been retconned out.

    We're also discussing story more actively here if you're interested.
  • I<iShiDoI<iShiDo MVP Joined: Posts: 161
    Thanks will go over there. But could You answer just one more... What has be rectonned as well from Alpha 3 or better... What can be considered as canon

  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I<iShiDo wrote: »
    Thanks will go over there. But could You answer just one more... What has be rectonned as well from Alpha 3 or better... What can be considered as canon

    That's a really loaded question.

    Basically, there are a few big changes you have to come to terms with for Alpha 3 to be canon.

    1- Alpha 3 and SF2 are basically retellings of the same basic story. Yes, SFA3 = SF2. They in fact occupy the same point in the timeline of the Street Fighter series and involve many of the same characters. SFA3's story being the newer and most update-to-date version of these events overrides many SF2-introduced plots it contradicts (Sagat for example). When no contradiction occurs, both SFA3 and SF2 stories end up being true (for example, Ken, Hawk, and Chun-Li's SFA3 and SF2 endings can all be true with little contradiction between them).

    2- SF4 is a sequel to SF Alpha 3 AND SF2 (see #1). This is evidenced by many things but most pertinent is the depiction of SF2's conclusion in the Viper Aftermath Trailer. In that portrayal, the final battle of SF2 is an amalgamation of several SFA3 endings put together with a little something extra added. Much of the prologue in SF4 follows the endings of SFA3 rather than SF2, for example Ryu, Guile and Fei Long (there's a ton of these that I can go into detail if needs be).

    3- By far the key thing to ignore in all of this is the question of who killed Bison. Alpha 3 and SF2 shows us how everyone and their mother fought Bison and perhaps even killed him. We know from SF4 that none of them did. What remains after that in each character's ending could be canon. For example, Fei Long's SFA3 ending involves him killing Bison then making a movie about his experience with Shadaloo. In SF4 we find out that Fei Long did indeed make a movie about his experience with Shadaloo, but also that he did not kill Bison obviously. To understand which parts of the SFA3 endings made it into the canon, your best gauge is to see the character in question's respective SF4 prologue (i.e. their story in the sequel). Capcom did a good job of remembering many endings in their SF4 prologues and do give a sense continuity between the chapters.

    This is a loaded subject, so there is a lot of details that I left out to save time, but this is the fastest way I can answer your question.
  • I<iShiDoI<iShiDo MVP Joined: Posts: 161
    OK thank you very much... Now I will go to the other thread =)

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