Cannon Spike! The Cammy Thread

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  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    C'mon, she ain't that bad...normals are good...hooligan is good...cannon spike is at least decent...super is not useless...good foot speed...just needs a way around those fireballs is all!
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  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,211
    She's the worst for sure. Her "mix-ups" boil down to using the Hooligan but the setups can become so predictable that you can counter if you're ready. Her knuckle is useless, I don't even use it all unless its a jab going through fireballs at max distance to build meter. ONCE in a blue moon I'll whip it out just to catch the opponent by surprise. Her throw range isn't good enough. The effectiveness of her cr. mk is hampered by the fact that its hard for her to get in versus turtles in order to use it. Her jump is very floaty and makes it much harder to catch fireballers with a diagonal jump. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I diagonal-jumped in a match (though I guess that's better for me as a player since I don't need to jump to get in). Yadda yadda.

    Why is she worse than the other supposed lesser-tier characters?

    T-Hawk: He has better damage potential, awesome and far-reaching normals, and it can be hard for people to escape ticks.
    Blanka: Unorthodox style, an annoying jump, and rolls which can catch people by surprise.
    Fei-Long: Rekka can deal massive damage, very fast. He has an overhead and that awesome cr. fp.
    Zangief: Damage potential, is good versus some top-tiers.

    /$0.02
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I agree; worst character in the game.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Kara'ing whatever normal you like into hooligan/drill can be a good way to turn someone's reactions against them. I like using low moves, people often respond to these by crouch blocking or trying to trip ya with a rh or something.

    Mostly I hooligan first to set up the drill after putting the idea that I telegraph my hooligans into their head. This also makes it easier to land random, untelegraphed hooligans later on, too.

    Fake hooligan'ing in certain situations can be pretty pro, too - situate yourself in a crouching position within hooligan range of a reversal happy opponent, then stand and crouch again real fast to mimic the hooligan motion. You'll often be rewarded with a nice, punishable srk/flash kick/whatever by your opponent.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    If you take the drill aside, ST or HDR, you get some interesting data which I think explains better why she is (ST/HDR standards) weak in real competitive matches. I think the issue is somewhat relatively straightforward way to counter her stuff:

    vs Guile:
    Hooligan combination: flash kick.
    Diagonal jump: flash kick.
    Spinning backfist: flash kick.

    vs Ken:
    Hooligan combination: shoryuken.
    Diagonal jump: shoryuken.
    Spinning backfist: shoryuken.

    vs Ryu:
    Hooligan combination: shoryuken.
    Diagonal jump: shoryuken.
    Spinning backfist: shoryuken.

    vs Honda:
    Hooligan combination: headbutt.
    Diagonal jump: headbutt.
    Spinning backfist: headbutt.

    vs Boxer:
    Hooligan combination: cr.fierce/headbutt.
    Diagonal jump: cr.fierce/headbutt.
    Spinning backfist: cr.punch(any)/headbutt.

    vs Sagat:
    Hooligan combination: tiger uppercut.
    Diagonal jump: tiger uppercut.
    Spinning backfist: tiger uppercut.

    vs Fei Long:
    Hooligan combination: flame kick.
    Diagonal jump: flame kick.
    Spinning backfist: flame kick.

    vs Dee Jay:
    Hooligan combination: cr.fierce/upkicks.
    Diagonal jump: cr.fierce/upkicks.
    Spinning backfist: cr.anything/upkicks.

    vs Chun:
    Hooligan combination: st.forward/upkicks.
    Diagonal jump: st.forward/upkicks.
    Spinning backfist: sweep.

    vs Cammy (LOL):
    Hooligan combination: cannon spike.
    Diagonal jump: cannon spike.
    Spinning backfist: cannon spike.

    All these actions can be done on reaction. I suck with the other characters and will not pretend I do not, but I believe the counters will not be too complicated.
  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    WISDOM

    A hilarious... but truly sad statement on Cammy. But like Miles said, that's why we have to use all the tools, including fake hooligan to bait and PUNISH!
    I wanted to put something witty about Economics and E-Sports here... but all I can say is wow... the people who signed up to take my class on E-Sports... fail.
  • CauldrathCauldrath Joined: Posts: 617
    vs Chun:
    Hooligan combination: st.forward/upkicks.
    Diagonal jump: st.forward/upkicks.
    Spinning backfist: Any ground combo you want, including jabx3xxSuper,Upkicks for 80% damage.
    Fixed that for you. Please don't use Spinning Backfist against Chun.
    My blog where I try to break games: http://cauldrath.blogspot.com/
    My videos of me trying to break games: http://www.youtube.com/user/Cauldrath
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    please don't use spinning backfist against a standing opponent.
    fify.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Blockstring/combo every Cammy should learn:

    St.jab - st.jab - cr.short - thrust kick

    Fantastic against shotos, fatsos, Guile and Dic - give your opponent two and a half chances to think you're going to tick them!

    Not so hot vs. Vega, Chun or Rog.

    Works in ST as well, but you gotta hit confirm off the second st.jab or you'll run out of input window for the thrust kick.

    And of course you can substitute the thrust kick for a super.
  • KyonKyon Member of SOS 団 Joined: Posts: 25
    I wish Cammy has a fireball so she won't get turtles to death by shotos and headbutt :P
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,211
    So hey, played some good Guiles the other day. I don't main Cammy but I still use her when the mood hits me. Anyway, Guile's cr. mk gets priority over Cammy's. What a "great" match, gotta love neutral-jumping booms all day and having zero options.
  • KyonKyon Member of SOS 団 Joined: Posts: 25
    Pretty much how I felt when I fight Guile, DJ, and Chun-li, but Cammy is fun to use nevertheless. IMO anyway! :P
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Cr.mp can stuff Guile's cr.mk. It's hard to follow up on without risking a flash kick, but at least it's better than being pushed back into donkey kong range.
  • Big OBig O Joined: Posts: 366
    Guile cr. mk has terrible priority. Cammy's cr. mk has more priority and is a lot safer to spam. At worst yours will trade with Guile's. The only way you get hit by his mk is if he tags you during your startup frames. Also donkey kong range is awesome :tdown:
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    Cr. mk will be stuffed if you're right outside of your range, but still in his range. It may have crap priority, but Guile's cr. mk still has longer range than your own and he'll hit you on your recovery frames. Cr. mp works well, but only outside of his cr. mk range or much closer where you can tag his startup frames.
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  • Big OBig O Joined: Posts: 366
    It actually doesn't get stuffed, even outside your range and inside his. By stuffed I mean both hitboxes are out, but you get hit and they don't. He only has a 3 frame window to hit you while your cr. mk recovers and 4 frames during your startup vs 8 frames of his startup and 9 frames of recovery where he will get hit. Although your cr. mk has a 7 frame recovery, his cr. mk extends his hurtbox 4 frames before his hitboxes come out (enough to get himself hit instead). If you are out of the normal range of your cr. mk, the first 4 frames of Guile's cr. mk won't get hit, but he is still much more likely to get hit than you are.

    Basically, the odds are pretty stacked in your favor for using your cr. mk vs his. If Guile is spamming it while you are out of range his range, just cr. mp instead for free damage.
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    You're right, I didn't mean to say stuffed. But I do get hit with it more often than you think after I throw out cr. mk. Either impeccable timing or lots of luck on the opponent's part.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    All of Dhalsim's extended limbs have shit as priority, but they still own you from a distance the same way. Guile's cr.forward is similar, if used in a similar fashion. It is a losing strategy to go for trades with longer range moves, even for boxer, I would say.
  • Big OBig O Joined: Posts: 366
    Dhalsim is more of an extreme case and his priority isn't really that bad for his good pokes (at least in comparison to Guile). I actually go for trades as Zangief vs. Dhalsim and Vega because at some point they get stuffed by sweep or you trade heavily in your favor. Even if I only successfully stuff it like 1/3 times, it more or less breaks even damage wise and I get a knockdown.

    Imo you have to go for trades or you just give them free reign to poke from far away all day. At the very least you should make them weary of counterpokes.
  • intangiBLZintangiBLZ can't touch this Joined: Posts: 100
    I want to talk about an alternate use of Cammy's back-fist move that many players are unfamiliar with. The properties of this move are extremely complicated. Therefore, I'll only talk about the applications of this move in the Ryu match-up. The move works differently against all characters. I just performed this experiment on an ST emulator (on my computer) but it should work on HDR as well.

    Here's a little experiment for everyone to try: go to training mode and pick Ryu and Cammy. Throw Ryu with Cammy's fierce throw and then immediately do the jab back-fist move. If you hit the other opponent, you're doing the back-fist too late. If you performed the back-fist as soon as possible, the move will barely whiff your opponent body while waking up. After your back-fist whiffs, attempt to throw your opponent. Most likely your throw will whiff, and you'll get a poke like standing fierce instead. At that range, you're also in the perfect range to perform a cross-up.

    Now try that experiment with the fierce back-fist. Immediately after the fierce back-fist whiffs, wait a split second and then try to throw them. You will be in range, and your throw will connect.

    So why do i consider that mix-up good? What are some applications of that mixup?

    First off, using the back-fist move is a lot easier than manually walking inside/outside Cammy's throw range. Since it's so easy, you'll rarely ever mess up.
    Secondly, and IMO more importantly, this mix-up is much more ambiguous than simply walking inside/outside Cammy's throw range because the move has unique properties. As Cammy's character is performing the jab/fierce backfist, her front leg extends further forward; As the move is ending, her front leg retracts backward. When you're performing the jab/fierce backfist, it always looks like you're closer to the opponent than you really are. It's not until much later -when the backfist has completely recovered- that your opponent can determine weather you performed the jab or fierce version of the move.

    Whenever I feel my opponent is going to try to tech throws, I perform the jab version of the back-fist. Immediately afterwards I usually will combo crouching medium kick into a cannon drill. If I think my opponent will try to reversal me (say Ryu's dragon punch), I'll do the fierce version, then block, and go for the throw break (late throw). I'll also occasionally do the back-fist late for a meaty backfist, just to mix things up.

    I personally think that this is the original purpose of the move-the reason the original programmers added this move to the code. But, I'll concede that I've never seen a Cammy player use the back-fist in this way in SF2. Although, in later games, lots of other players use similar setups, with different characters. Interestingly enough though, this back fist mix-up doesn't work on many charcters. For example, the mix-up doesn't work on E. Honda which I consider odd lol but it does work well on Ryu.
    ..
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Sounds promising. Thanks for sharing!

    EDIT - ... I keep forgetting to play with the concept. My play style has pretty much ossified, this is gonna be tough.
  • Business MouseBusiness Mouse Joined: Posts: 4
    I'm a new player and I like Cammy a lot. I like her fighting style and feel the most comfortable using her (yes even moreso than Chun). She is taking a lot of work but for two weeks worth of playing I finally won my first match against a good Akuma player. I won back to back rounds. I'm really proud, I've been putting a lot of work into her. Goes to show the Akuma player might have been uspet to loose to a Cammy and picks M.Bison (NA) for the next match. My Cammy (and my skillz) did not have a chance against him . lol

    Thanks everyone for all the tips and tricks. What it ultimately boils down to is just practice and building confidence for me. I need the most help in my defense, avoiding fireballs, learning to read the moves of my opponent. I do realize that Cammy is a probably more underskilled than most of the characters but I take it as a great challenge to become better. I guess I realized that too when I played against NO Cammys in my brief stint online.

    I try not to play open online matches too much cos I'm not giving you guys easy wins yet. lol. :rofl:
  • BlueMary69BlueMary69 If I Drown let me Sink Joined: Posts: 749
    hey miles i'll be at devastation i'll be repping that cammy so better bring that A game son!!! :) i mostly use cammy now i hate HDR chun

    -Mongolorobokop
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Right on, man!

    I'll do my best - gonna get me a PS3 and grind some strings just for the tournament. See ya'll there!
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    Oh snap, maybe I can get my PS3 back up and running in time so I can do some Cammy practice with you guys.
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    2. Receive hatemail
    3. ???
    4. Profit
  • Master zEAloUSMaster zEAloUS The guy who's not good but wins a lot. Joined: Posts: 86
    I just found out an amazing combo that stuns practically all the time; however, I don't know if somebody's posted it before, so don't prolapse if you think I stole this:

    Jumping:lk:, standing:mp:, crouching:mk:, cancel into light Cannon Drill. It works more consistently on cross-up.
    Winning with turbo/Akuma/a lag switch is like winning in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a drooling, smelly retard.
  • TNBTNB Bye. Joined: Posts: 1,180
    complaining when she has perfectly safe drills. whatever.
    kinda stinks that the other moves besides drill/spike were nefred here, that was unnecessary.
    If you really want, you can hack hdr/st.

    "I just found out an amazing combo that stuns practically all the time; however, I don't know if somebody's posted it before, so don't prolapse if you think I stole this:

    Jumping:lk:, standing:mp:, crouching:mk:, cancel into light Cannon Drill. It works more consistently on cross-up."

    That's a classic super turbo link combo. Cammy is weird, even in ST she feels more like an sf4 character with all those links.
    Skills and attitude prove worth as a player, not the internet.
  • Master zEAloUSMaster zEAloUS The guy who's not good but wins a lot. Joined: Posts: 86
    @TNB Didn't know about that, sorry. Haven't ever seen that combo online.
    Winning with turbo/Akuma/a lag switch is like winning in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a drooling, smelly retard.
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,211
    Yeah, the combo you posted is her main BnB. You can always mix in Hooligan if they block or you want to mix it up.
  • Master zEAloUSMaster zEAloUS The guy who's not good but wins a lot. Joined: Posts: 86
    Boy, do I feel foolish.
    Winning with turbo/Akuma/a lag switch is like winning in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a drooling, smelly retard.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Cammy sucks. Keeping the thread alive.
    she does indeed, hardcore.

    I dont know what was Sirlin thinking when "balanced" her, cuz he didnt achieve it, honestly, Cammy suffers mostly becuz of her crappy jump ins, her jump in is so floaty that its so easy to react to them (and punish accordingly)

    The only change could make her a great choice, give her Vega's jump in, same jumping in arch and speed, and voilá, u would make her mix ups really worthy n lethal
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    Cammy kara ♥

  • PSN_ExdelsiorPSN_Exdelsior Joined: Posts: 5
    Been awhile since this thread was active but im not sure else where to go for suggestions and what not.
    First thing: what does it mean when the guide in the OP is saying "crouching forward, s. strong, Strong forward"?
    Next question, I use the dualshock 3 dpad to play and there is only a few combos i can get away with. The majority of the combos listed on here do not want to chain for me and is always blocked on the 2nd or 3rd hit.
    I feel like im a good cammy player but doing combos isnt really apart of my game. If i can add it then i would be better. Is my timing seriously that bad that im unable to get a chain going?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    Been awhile since this thread was active but im not sure else where to go for suggestions and what not.
    First thing: what does it mean when the guide in the OP is saying "crouching forward, s. strong, Strong forward"?
    Next question, I use the dualshock 3 dpad to play and there is only a few combos i can get away with. The majority of the combos listed on here do not want to chain for me and is always blocked on the 2nd or 3rd hit.
    I feel like im a good cammy player but doing combos isnt really apart of my game. If i can add it then i would be better. Is my timing seriously that bad that im unable to get a chain going?

    cr.forward = crouching medium kick
    st.strong = standing medium punch

    Not sure where you read or saw strong forward, unless they mean a series of attacks.

    Don't focus on the combos. Focus on your basic moves. ST/HDR isn't a combo-intensive game, and you really don't need to learn them until you start playing at higher intermediate levels. You can very easily net a lot of your wins with little to no combo use.

    A lot of these combos require precise timing and practice. You can't mash it out or phone it in. You'll have to learn to adjust the timing of your attacks until these combos work on your opponent. Keep in mind that a lot of these combos are range, and sometimes character, specific.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    edited October 2013
    Cammy's always for me been a character to test my opponent with. She's the only 100% honest character in the game. What do I mean by that? She has nothing abusable. She's 100% skill and mind games. There is no reason why anybody who knows what they're doing should ever take a hooligan from Cammy unless you condition them. Almost everything Cammy does is unsafe except for her footsie and poking tools. Her safe cannon drill requires very specific spacing which you have to fight for. And you can't abuse the c.Mk trick to get the right distance because if you don't mix it up, you're eating a srk like move.

    That being said you can definitely still in with Cammy (unless you're facing a Honda who knows to just turtle)
    It just takes a lot more skill and concentration and mind games. James chen is my cammy inspiration. Even just from testing people with Cammy I've gotten a lot better with her and better at the game overall. She's a very rewarding character because of the challenge and the skills you gain which are transferable other games and characters. Yes she does suck. But no don't give up on her. You can make it work. I almost have. I would go as far saying my Cammy is one notch away from being à legitimate threat

    Edit: oh yeah, she's fun as hell to play too

    Edit2: oh yeah, and that @$$
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    All the low tiers are fun to play. Why? For the same reasons you mentioned. They're all pretty honest, have nothing abusable, and their weaknesses force you to stay on-point with your fundamentals. You can get away with sloppy Boxer play and do well, but a sloppy Blanka, Cammy, Gief, Fei? Hell, no. You really gotta focus and work hard to get those Ws, which makes winning so much more rewarding and enjoyable.

    Usually winning bad matchups makes the game fun and rewarding, of which low tier characters have in SPADES.

    Cammy simply requires a lot of patience and a strong knowledge of the ground game.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    edited October 2013
    IMO Cammy is much more demanding than the other low tiers when you are getting started with them. Fei and gief you can land a random super relatively easily compared to blank a or cammy. blanka's balls are much safer in many more situations than Cammy's drills and he has that multi hit grab too. Fei basically kils s you off of one rekka. Gief is the closest to Cammy in tier(worst) and honesty (not a coincidence, I know). But in terms of getting into the groove with Cammy in low and mid level play I think she has it hardest and people need more encouragement. (At least with gief you can just butter churn all day at low levels)

    I think that's the difference with Cammy and why she's so rare to see. (From my own personal experience Cammy's are extremely rare compared to the other low tiers) is that she has no obvious advantages / methods of attack/game plans for low level players and they give up before beginning that exploration.

    I wasn't saying the low tiers aren't fun. But you sort of killed my intention of encouraging more people to stick with Cammy by saying, "well the other low tiers are fun too". ... Well yeah. So are the high tier characters. But this is a thread for Cammy. And Cammy is much less popular than the other low tiers by far. She needs the support

    On that note I would also like to point out one of the best characters in the game : Sim . is also a rare sight. For much the same reason as Cammy. I would do more to encourage people to play Sim (I REALLY am starved of Sim matches) but I don't play him myself and I wouldn't want to be called out on that.

    You DO play Sim, If you were to give reasons to play Sim I certainly wouldn't degrade it by saying. "Well. Xxx characters are like that too".

    I know that wasn't your intention with your post but that's how I feel. I also feel like I'm being talked down to like I don't know why people play low tier characters.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
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