Cannon Spike! The Cammy Thread

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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Really? I find that even at full range, Ken can just walk up and sweep you as you're landing without any problems...

    Yes that's true, but only if it's a Jab Hadoken. You're fine if you cancel Jab Hooligan on a Strong or Fierce Hadoken. You're better off neutral jumping Jab Hadokens anyway.
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    Will Ken be able to connect with a fierce SRK after a neutral jump over a jab fireball?
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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Will Ken be able to connect with a fierce SRK after a neutral jump over a jab fireball?

    Pretty sure not from full screen. Maybe from half screen, but it takes some serious reflexes to hit Cammy neutral jumping. Even from quarter screen only extremely good players would be able to hit that, I've never seen it happen yet, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    Pretty sure not from full screen. Maybe from half screen, but it takes some serious reflexes to hit Cammy neutral jumping. Even from quarter screen only extremely good players would be able to hit that, I've never seen it happen yet, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

    To put that into perspective, the only person who has done it to me consistently is Damdai... so... yeah.
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  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    *sigh* Am I the only one who has trouble with her easier matchups (Gief, Hawk)? It seems like I know what to do vs. fireball characters or anyone else for that matter, but I can't seem to find an easy way to beat these characters. I've read that cr. mk beats these guys pretty easily, but it just doesn't work for me. So what I tend to do is stay far away and let them come to me, using normals to push them back out (my zoning game sucks, hence I am using Cammy, ha). All they need is that one knockdown and then I'm kinda screwed (this is especially true with Gief). Could anyone lend me any tips?
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  • TheloThelo Holdin' down-back Joined: Posts: 1,144 mod
    Not that I'm much of an expert on Cammy, but when I'm screwing around with her vs T.Hawk, mostly I just do a bajillion thrust kicks. He jumps? Thrust kick. Get in range for it on the ground, thrust kick. I knock him down, meaty thrust kick. I get knocked down somehow and he moves anywhere near me, reversal thrust kick. As far as I know, it's safe on block (!) and most of the time it beats his Rising Hawk (!!) so it's pretty damn good.
    Keeping your cool is always the winning move.
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    Naw, Rising Hawk has more invincibility frames than Thrust Kick, so it will beat it nearly every time. And Sirlin's balance to the Thrust Kick included worse recovery so Hawk could retaliate with standing roundhouse. Even at max range I think she could still get hit. But that was the answer originally in vanilla ST...you could Thrust Kick all day and he couldn't do anything about it.
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  • CorrosiveCorrosive The Starting Over Joined: Posts: 1,352
    Medium kick. Standing medium kick and crouching medium kick tend to ruin T.Hawk and Zangief. Just DP them when you see them jump and footsie with medium kick. If they block Cammy's DP up close, you're going to get punished as you said, so don't hesitate and don't let yourself get put in a block situation. "Safer" spiral arrows can be Tomahawk Buster'd so make sure you're not putting any obvious rhythms out there if you're relying on that bootleg pressure.

    Cammy has other great buttons in some situations. Far standing MP is good, just don't get swept. Medium kick sets up everything, though. If you aren't DPing obvious jumps, there's your problem.
    It's best that you remain close to the "Ls", Joe.
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    Ya, my DP reaction needs a bit of work. I like to think that pressuring Hawk with walk forward cr. mk would work well? St. mk is sometimes decent, but that one lariat that manages to knock me down when I'm doing it just completely screws me for the rest of the match.
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  • BlueMary69BlueMary69 If I Drown let me Sink Joined: Posts: 749
    I love cammy just throwing my two cents since i have been maining her alot more now... i'll try and give some tips of what I do personally do against certain match ups

    Against hawk thrust kicks are your best weapon besides that i just mix up the hooligan game up alot..
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    I love cammy just throwing my two cents since i have been maining her alot more now... i'll try and give some tips of what I do personally do against certain match ups

    Alright cool! Would love to hear some feedback from ya :)
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  • SlowJoe0SlowJoe0 Joined: Posts: 11
    As a Zangief main, a lot of Cammy players try to get too fancy. Beating Zangief with Cammy is about two things: poking and reflexes.

    Standing mk and c.mk are two great pokes. Standing mk comes out very fast and beats most of Zangief's ground normals, while c.mk has great range and good recovery. Thrust kick is good chip damage, and Zangief can't reliably punish on block. Max range cannon drills are usable and only punishable if you miss or if Zangief counters with a psychic sweep. If you train Zangief to go on the defensive to avoid your mk pokes, you can slip some hooligan throws in... even if Zangief lariats on reaction, half the time you can throw him through the lariat anyway.

    You have three main things to react to. First, thrust kick all of Zangief's jump-ins. You might trade with the knee drop if the timing is just right, but Zangief doesn't have anything that'll cleanly hit a properly spaced thrust kick. Second, use your standing mk if Zangief hops in for a piledriver. The hitbox on the hop is wretched, so as long as you time the mk properly, you'll hit him cleanly. Finally, thrust kick Zangief's green hand attempts. If he gets close enough to tick you with it, the SPD is coming so you'll need to reversal thrust kick. If he whiffs in an attempt to get closer, thrust kick on reaction.

    95% of this match is going to be Zangief trying to get in on you, and you keeping him out with your mk pokes and your reactions. Don't jump offensively. Don't use your backhand. Don't cannon drill from anywhere except max range, or you'll get punished with the SPD.

    As Zangief, I spend most of the fight hoping you'll make a mistake. I'm looking for you to cannon drill too deeply or screw up your attack chain after a jump-in so I can SPD you. I'm throwing out empty sweeps, whiffed lariats, and vertical jumps hoping that I can psychically catch you sticking something out that will lead to a knockdown. I'm hoping you'll be so preoccupied with my little sweep/lariat dance that I can sneak a hop/green hand past your reversals and score a SPD. I'm hoping you go easy on the hooligan throws, because they're tough to react to.

    Most of all, when you knock me down, I'm hoping you snuggle up and try silly meaty attack shenanigans. That makes my job so much easier, because you voluntarily put yourself right where I want you -- in SPD range :)
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I hear most Cammy players say that Ryu is tougher than Ken. What do you guys think of Cammy vs Sagat? Tougher than Ryu or easier than Ken? IMO Sagat is easier than Ken for Cammy players. Weaker Uppercut that is less safe on block, longer limbs after fireballs. The only things that Sagat has over Ryu or Ken in this matchup IMO is his High Tigers that Cammy can't Backfist through unless it's Fierce and Tiger Knees that are good as a surprise attack for advancing Cammy players. I'm curious what Cammy players think of this matchup.
  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    I hear most Cammy players say that Ryu is tougher than Ken. What do you guys think of Cammy vs Sagat? Tougher than Ryu or easier than Ken? IMO Sagat is easier than Ken for Cammy players. Weaker Uppercut that is less safe on block, longer limbs after fireballs. The only things that Sagat has over Ryu or Ken in this matchup IMO is his High Tigers that Cammy can't Backfist through unless it's Fierce and Tiger Knees that are good as a surprise attack for advancing Cammy players. I'm curious what Cammy players think of this matchup.

    I disagree. I think Ken is tougher than Ryu. You can't even surprise backfist through Ken's fireball. Ken's jab fireball is so slow it can totally screw up neutral jumping over it. Farther range on fierce DP makes anti-airing even easier...

    I agree Sagat is easier than either of those two in HDR. Sagat doesn't have near as many invulnerability frames on TU and certainly takes the longest to recover making punishing easier. The trick for Sagat is to mix up the high / low tiger shot game to get Cammy to take a couple square in the face. Tiger Knee juggles do suck, but I feel this matchup while in Sagat's favor is less so than say Ken or Ryu.
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  • BlueMary69BlueMary69 If I Drown let me Sink Joined: Posts: 749
    I think Sagat is harder that both ryu and ken i have played against Stiffpeter, lightsout, and sirlins sagat and its not easy at all. They know how to zone out cammy very well which makes me scared off even throwing out any moves because they punish with tiger knee for like 50% of my life...

    Ken is harder than ryu for sure and i find the ryu match very fun unless your up against DGV i'll see how i do this weekend at Ranbats with cammy
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Thanks for the input guys, Silver and Mongolo. I have heard some Cammy players say that Ken is tougher than Ryu, but, yeah, there are a lot of different opinions. I'm just deciding whether to main Sagat or stick with Ryu or Ken. He does have an even more difficult time vs Dhalsim, which is a big dealbreaker for me, but Vega and Balrog are kinda easier, IDK the weaker Uppercut really throws me off, but Sagat is really growing on me. = J

    We need more Cammy players yo! Good luck at the ranbats Mongolo.
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Why are Chun Li's fireballs so big and fat and slow? Why are all the holes in her blockstrings chock full of lightning legs? Why is her throw range a million miles wide?
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    I disagree. I think Ken is tougher than Ryu. You can't even surprise backfist through Ken's fireball. Ken's jab fireball is so slow it can totally screw up neutral jumping over it. Farther range on fierce DP makes anti-airing even easier...

    Yes. Ken is tougher than Ryu exactly for these reasons.
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  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    Hey Milo, good to see ya again. BTW, anytime you want to agree with me, feel free. :D Disagree, and I revoke your membership to the Sarah Palin fanclub. lol j/k
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  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    Hey Milo, good to see ya again. BTW, anytime you want to agree with me, feel free. :D Disagree, and I revoke your membership to the Sarah Palin fanclub. lol j/k

    You've got mail.
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  • jactiafjactiaf Down, but Never out Joined: Posts: 31
    Why are Chun Li's fireballs so big and fat and slow? Why are all the holes in her blockstrings chock full of lightning legs? Why is her throw range a million miles wide?

    her fireballs are useless when you are both at the opposite sides of the screen. If you're chasing chun you are already treading on a very dicey path. Anticipating her kikokens with your spinning axle knuckle is another solution too. Lightning legs can also be beat with hooligans at the right distance. If they can't be beat due to distance then don't force it and bail out, reset the spacing. Her throw range is wide, but it also requires her to leave her defensive crouch which means you have to beat her grabbing with a low forward or standing forward, crouching strong, whatever will work. Make no mistake, Chun can be a pain in the ass if you chase, which is exactly why you shouldn't. Let her come to you. Be patient, then when she does come to you, strike like a viper with a knockdown then let her have fun figuring out your knockdown mix up game. This is a fight of discipline much like Honda, which basically means that if you adhere to discipline adamantly, you will have the power to control success. Don't force attacks, be patient, know when to sneak in an attack and know when to hold your ground.
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  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    Thx for the advice.

    I don't mind staying max screen while I'm ahead, but the fireballs become a huge problem for me once Chun gets a life lead. It's hard to avoid chasing her down at that point!

    Neutral jump is depressingly ineffective vs. jab fireball, so I guess blocking and closing to mk/hooligan distance is what I should be doing.
  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    Chun's fireball has the same problem as Ken's fireball. It's too slow and the hitbox is too akward to knuckle through it. Legs beats Hooligan about 90% of the time unless Cammy has perfect spacing and it has to be a light or medium because the hard punch hooligan is just too low to get over the LL hitbox. Don't forget to look at the speed of the fireball, if its too fast and you are at full screen you know it won't reach, if its really slow you have time to walk up and block the fireball and still gain ground.

    But I do agree with you on the necessity of patience and getting that first knockdown. Cammy vs. Chun up close is a very winnable fight. The problem is catching up to her. Whenever i play someone like Zass (who's Chun is top notch) I find myself actually taking a guess and throwing a couple TKs out there to get that cheap anti air knockdown and close distance and if Cammy gets chun into the corner... that fight is over.

    @Milo: You've got mail too!
    I wanted to put something witty about Economics and E-Sports here... but all I can say is wow... the people who signed up to take my class on E-Sports... fail.
  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    in my experience i found ken more difficult to deal with. right now i'm crap vs shotos but hopefully another opportunity will come up to play with a good one in person since i barely feel like going online to play this anymore and i heard a lot less people play online now anyway
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Actually the slower the fireball the better
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    Actually the slower the fireball the better

    How so?

    In my experience, a slow fireball requires tighter timing to avoid, and gives the opponent time to walk forward and sweep you if you jump over it or backfist through it (since you have to react later to get around it).

    A lot of times, I actually prefer a fast projectile for closing distance. Bulldogging (i.e. block projectile, creep forward, repeat) is overrated (for Cammy, anyway); projectiles push you so far back in this game (almost half a screen) that a good turtler can keep you out almost indefinitely if that's your game plan. You have to be able to get in otherwise, and fast projectiles are usually better for that.

    Just my opinion.
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  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    I dislike the Ryu matchup more than the Ken matchup, personally. I seem to have an easier time stuffing Ken's fireballs with either mk than I do Ryu's.

    Spin knuckle is as worthless vs. good Ryus as it is vs. Ken. You have to be psychic, pretty much, and as long as you're being psychic, why not land a jump in rh combo?

    Plus, you have to get to the very top of the Ken player pool before you stop getting whiffed supers and fp shoryukens to play with.
  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    See, versus Ryu, the trick if you're going to use the knuckle is to set up your distances well and make sure you that you hit with the tip of the hitbox on the second hit of the knuckle otherwise its a free sweep. But Ken can make even neutral jumping his fireballs a non option. It's not quite as psychic as you think, but knuckle is definetly one of the hardest moves in the game to use correctly.

    And with Chun and Ken's fireballs you can NOT knuckle through their jab versions because its in your space too long and you don't have enough invulnerability frames to get through and even if that worked, often times the fireball can hit the tip of the vulnerable hitbox for your head! No problem with that versus Ryu or Dhalsim or Sagat's low tiger shot (high tiger shot = free pain)

    In my personal experience on paper Ken is harder for Cammy, but there are more good players who play Ryu which makes that matchup more difficult in reality because there are simply more good Ryus then Kens but a Max Tier List type Ken I believe would beat Cammy more often than a Max Tier List type Ryu. (Aniken would beat Nakamura more than Daigo would beat Nakamura)

    but lets be honest, every shoto matchup is bad for cammy :(
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  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,224
    Ken is a bigger hell than Ryu if he's abusing fireballs, as the knuckle really is completely useless in this matchup (as if it wasn't already useless against elite players).
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    Spin knuckle is as worthless vs. good Ryus as it is vs. Ken. You have to be psychic, pretty much, and as long as you're being psychic, why not land a jump in rh combo?

    If you're wrong with a backfist, generally the worst that happens is that you get tripped. You take a HK's worth of damage, and you get knocked back a bit. Maybe you'll get hit with a projectile, but that usually won't even knock you down. Either way, you just built up your super meter.

    If you're wrong with a jump-in, you take special damage, you get knocked the fuck back, and you might even get juggled. Plus, now the opponent can jump in on you and start with meaty/wake-up/throw games, if he sees fit.
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  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    I'll happily reexamine SK vs. Ryu, because lord knows what I'm doing now isn't exactly a winning strategy.
  • Silver Rain 007Silver Rain 007 Professional Economist Joined: Posts: 2,108
    Well sadly, there's not a whole lot of winning strategies... hence they're 6.3-3.5 7-3 matchups for the shotos...

    We Cammy players picked a long tough road to hoe.
    I wanted to put something witty about Economics and E-Sports here... but all I can say is wow... the people who signed up to take my class on E-Sports... fail.
  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    I used to think the Ken match was easier than Ryu for Cammy due to his slower fireball startup which you could more easily stuff, but damn, closing in on him is much much worse since that slower fireball and faster walk speed makes it impossible to do anything but block and get pushed back. I haven't faced a Ken who could fierce SRK my neutral jump over a fireball yet, but I could imagine the nightmares I would have... maybe her worst matchup tied with Honda now? Haha, I actually have more fun facing a Honda....
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  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Slow fireball allows for way more mixups, especially if uses same animation, look at guile's jab boom.

    Fast fireballs are easy for me to get around, slow ones own me.

    imagine if kens jab fireball was like, 6 frames slower crossing the screen, you would like never be able to dp through it
  • ShadedWolfShadedWolf Joined: Posts: 352
    Slow fireball allows for way more mixups, especially if uses same animation, look at guile's jab boom.

    Fast fireballs are easy for me to get around, slow ones own me.

    imagine if kens jab fireball was like, 6 frames slower crossing the screen, you would like never be able to dp through it

    So true, and another deciding factor in Ken or Ryu (as harder) is Ken's chain grab. Also considering Ken's AA rapes spike, you're left in a hard place.
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  • TragicHeroTragicHero Cammy...that is all. Joined: Posts: 730
    so guys what's some good combos to do after landing a lk cross up? preferably one that works in ST, not just HDR.
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  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    If you're wrong with a backfist, generally the worst that happens is that you get tripped. You take a HK's worth of damage, and you get knocked back a bit. Maybe you'll get hit with a projectile, but that usually won't even knock you down. Either way, you just built up your super meter.

    If you're wrong with a jump-in, you take special damage, you get knocked the fuck back, and you might even get juggled. Plus, now the opponent can jump in on you and start with meaty/wake-up/throw games, if he sees fit.

    Cr Mk xx fireball =/. Can even be cr mp, cr mk xx fireball depending how close you knuckle.....dont use knuckle. lol
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  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    so guys what's some good combos to do after landing a lk cross up? preferably one that works in ST, not just HDR.

    Crouching medium punch, crouching medium kick xx cannon drill (strength is character and standing/crouching dependent). This will frequently dizzy.
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  • SLEZZYSLEZZY NOT Sleazy Joined: Posts: 326
    Crouching medium punch, crouching medium kick xx cannon drill (strength is character and standing/crouching dependent). This will frequently dizzy.

    cr. mp, cl. hp xx cannon drill also works. cr. mp, cr. hk if unsure if drill won't combo and is unsafe upon blocking.
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  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    Cammy sucks. Keeping the thread alive.
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