Chun-Li HD Remix

skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!?Joined: Posts: 961
Feel free to post older chun strats as they apply, but I'm interested in knowing what people come up with for the new stuff. Here's a few things I've come up with:

A. New Super Combo:


(Note, I've only tried this on Ryu so far. If I find that it's drastically different against anyone else, I'll post up here).

So, Chun's super does less damage, and it seems you can only get about one hit with the upkicks afterwards. According to what I read on Sirlin's article, it sounds like there are some characters she can't tag with upkicks at all. However! I did find a combo that is a little better, if not a bit situational:

When your opponent is near the corner: Super, tag with Lk SBK.

This combo is very specific on your opponent's distance from the corner. If they're too close, they don't fly nearly as far in the air as you need them to. If they're too far from the corner, they'll fly too far outwards (or at least, too much for my untechnical ass :/). To see about how far they need to be, Dhalsim's stage is a good test - get your opponent about one character length past the carpet. This causes your opponent to be too far backed into the corner to fly outward, but they're not technically pressed against the corner, so they fly all the way up as well.

Why is this combo better than the new nerfed combo? At worst, you'll get one hit off the SBK, which makes it do comparable damage to the upkicks variation. At best, you'll get all three hits, which does a good deal of damage more (I'd say you net about 60% damage this way).

The downsides of this combo are:

1. Much harder to time: To get all the hits, you have to perform the SBK almost immediately after the super animation is finished.

2. If you whiff the move, you'll cross over to the other side of your opponent, i.e you'll be in cornered and at point blank range. This might fool an opponent all of one time, but afterwards, it's a pretty crappy situation to be in.

As for the strength of the SBK I chose, I've never had any luck landing two hits with the Mk or Hk version. If you can do it, let me know, so I can stop being a wuss and just practice more :P

---

B. New SBK

The start up time is a HELL of a lot faster, and since it goes in a curving arc now, it will hit opponents on the way down. It has very limited use as a way of evading fireballs, because the startup time is still too slow to do it on reaction to faster fireballs; in fact, if you try to do this at closer ranges, it's slow enough to just wait a second and punish with a different attack, or even fireball it on reaction.

Also, from as much as I've tested, the Mk and Hk versions are frequently unsafe on hit or block. I would strongly suggest that, if you do this move at all, to just use the Lk version.

The new SBK is also harder to use as a reversal escape move, because the actual time that she stays completely invulnerable is shorter now.

The new SBK is also pretty useless as AA, mostly because the startup time is too slow for you to AA someone on reaction with it.

New info 11/27: So, I noticed that Buktooth mentioned that you could combo in Chun's super off of her SBK if you anti-air someone with it. So, I thought I'd check out what can be done. Unfortunately, there's not much.

1. SBK \/ Super. Just as it was stated in the other thread, you can only get one hit off the super, so it's kind of a bullshit combo.

2. SBK \/ Upkicks. This is pretty situational; basically, if you AA someone with SBK and it only hits once or twice, you can juggle them for a few more hits with Upkicks. This doesn't do a lot of damage, but it's worth it to know for those 1/100 matches where you actually AA someone with SBK.

Overall, I can't find an incredibly good use for SBK. The only thing I like about it is its situational use after landing a super.

---

C. New Air SBK+New Input

So, the new Air SBK works a lot more like...well, I don't actually remember if Chun's Air SBK was ever like this before, but it acts an awful lot like Ryu and Ken's air Hurricane Kicks from Hyper Fighting, in that it goes entirely horizontal. You can also charge with a down+up motion, now. You can also do them incredibly low to the ground - low enough that her legs can actually hit crouching characters!

Here's a few new things you can do with the New SBK - both because of the new arc and the new input:

1. You can now perform Air SBKs after a headstomp...not exactly the most useful thing, but it's neat. There are a few limited uses, though:

- If you headstomp a standing opponent, you can get enough altitude that you could activate an SBK that's too high for some characters to reversal SRK you afterwards. This is actually kind of hard to do, but possible. I think the reason why it's probably difficult is because Chun doesn't actually gain enough altitude to evade some attacks. Overall, you're a sitting duck if you use the headstomp in certain situations, so you might as well try to use it.

- It certainly does extend the amount of time she's in the air, which can be a good thing if your opponent doesn't suspect it, I guess.

- Also, it's a way of building meter. Any new trick is good to know about, I suppose...

2. This isn't necessarily a new thing you can do, but now, when you're cornered against a fireball character, you can use the Air SBK to evade the fireballs and build meter. However, it's much harder to do this before, because the Air SBK hangs in the air, leaving you more open to counter-attack. Also, you have to execute the Air SBK at the right height; if you do it too low, you'll get hit by fireballs anyways. If you do it too high, they will recover from their fireball in time to do something else.

Also, this method of building meter, I suspect, is no longer safe against Sagat; the threat of high fireballs will force you to do it much higher in the air, leaving you completely defenseless.

At best, it MIGHT be good for using the forward-moving version to evade and counter, effectively giving her something to escape those fireball traps. It's worth it to look into this.

3. You can perform SBK instantly off the ground, like an Instant Air Dash attack or something. IADSBK is performed by charging down, then up and wait a split second (to avoid having upkicks come up), then press kick. I'm not sure of the practical uses for this yet...it might be good for baiting shit, but I'm not smart enough to think of a situation for it. It IS a damn good runaway tool though, if you're fighting someone where you want to keep your distance. Lastly, you can do it low enough to the ground to punish crouching attacks, but this is - in my opinion - hard to do, and can be REALLY dangerous if you whiff, since she isn't going to fall low enough to hit her opponent.

Some other last things to note about IADSBKs:

1. IADSBK will whiff characters as Chun falls to the ground, so don't think to use it as some sort of tricky overhead.

2. IADSBK has either little or no invulnerability on startup; however, as Chun-Li is landing (the animation where she lands on her hands) is COMPLETELY invulnerable - no hitboxes at all. I wonder if anyone can make use of this:

New info 11/28: So, here are my predicted matchup changes. These aren't full-on matchup analyses, because a lot of stuff that applied in ST applies here. This is just a short list of what I think has changed, and whether or not I think the match is harder. If you want to know more about a matchup, look it up on the ST wiki, or ask NKI. In fact, special thanks to NKI for giving me most of base matchup knowledge to begin with! Without further ado:

Ryu - A bit worse now. It's harder to build meter if you're fireball trapped, and the fake fireball can be outright brutal. This HAS to be 6-4 Ryu.


Ken - I haven't played a single good Ken player online that I can remember. I imagine it'll be a little trickier now that he has a lot of the best tools from both O Ken and New Ken. Still, I don't think it's enough that it will change the matchup drastically - Chun just has to be more careful now.


Honda - I might be hasty saying this, but for now, my impressions are that it's a little easier. Honda is much less scary when he finally gets in, and his Jab Torpedo isn't really that scary versus Chun...yet. I admit it could be, but in my experience, all you need to do now is throw fireballs from 3/4 screen away instead of fullscreen, so that you can walk up and punish Jab Torpedos. So far, I'm saying 6-4 Chun.


Dhalsim - In theory, this one should be a little easier, but I'm gonna say it's about the same. The slide noogie trap is supposed to be nerfed, but other than the damage, it seems like it's still pretty easy to land. Maybe I've just sucked it up every time I've fought Dhalsim. Either way, both sides recieved a damage nerf to one of their most powerful offensive tools, so I'd say this one remained 6-4 Chun.


Guile - This one could be really sticky. I have yet to fight a Guile that has taken really good advantage of his new tricks. I'm predicting that this one will get a fair amount harder for Chun, but we'll see.


Blanka - Blanka balls are safe now, but you couldn't really punish them with anything substantial, if at all. The only thing now is that no one will be crazy enough to do a meaty Blanka ball now. Other than that, if you play the matchup properly, Blanka's changes don't help him, and Chun's changes don't hurt her. 6-4 Chun.


Zangief - This one could get a bit tougher with the new and improved Green Hand. The new hop might help a little, but other than that, I'm not sure. I need to play better Zangief players before making my decision.


Balrog - Rog's throw has been nerfed, and unlike Sim's, I think it's more obvious in this case. Couple this with the less safe Jab Headbutt and Super, and I'd say this match is slowly tipping in Chun's favor (and depending on who you ask, it already was in Chun's favor). I wanna play more, but I'd say it's 5.5-4.5 Chun, or 6-4 Chun at this point.


Vega - I wish I could say this was definitively easier, but I don't know if I can. I've been been WallDive Thrown out of my Upkicks many times in ST, and I've already had it happen to me a fair amount in STHD. Also, the fact that Vega WallDives don't knock you down doesn't mean shit, because if you go for reversal Upkicks and the WallDive beats it, you get knocked down. Chun can still keep the pressure easy enough, but you still have to play this one as smart as ever. I'd say it's 5-5.

Sagat - I haven't played a really good Sagat player, and I don't want to. This was already one of Chun's hardest matchups, and Sagat is even more solid now. At the very least, you don't get Tiger Uppercut'd for free when you successfully anticipate and jump over one of his fireballs from far ranges. This does help Chun close the gap, but I predict that Sagat's new toys are going to maintain the balance of this match in Sagat's favor.


M.Bison - I don't think this one moved at all. The only change that even slightly matters in this case is that Bison's neutral J.Mp can initiate juggles. I don't honestly think any of Bison's other new tricks help him in this match because they don't help get Chun off his ass. This one is at LEAST 6-4 Chun, maybe 7-3.


Fei-Long - I haven't played any great Fei-Long players yet, but I have a feeling that THIS will be the one match that changes pretty drastically. This matchup was basically good for Chun until she got cornered, because it was very hard for her to escape. Now, Fei-Long's corner bullshit isn't quite as scary...but he's definitely scarier in midscreen, what with the new range for his Rekka punches. I think this will force Chun players to think twice about being hyper rushdown, but there will be a much-reduced "oh shit" factor when you get cornered. This match is already a pretty disputed matchup from everywhere I've seen (As high as 6-4 Chun to as low as 6-4 Fei), so I'm really interested in seeing where this one ends up.


Thawk - I think this one got a little easier. One of the biggest threats in this match overall was the fear of being knocked down by the dive. Not only can Thawk no longer do this, but his 360 loop is gone. I'm gonna wait until I play some better Thawks, but I think this one just got a lot worse for him.


Cammy - I'm conflicted about this one. The new Hoppy punch will probably make Chun think twice about throwing fireballs at close range, and the safer Cannon Drills are definitely nice. On the other hand, the incredibly safe Cannon Spike was the biggest thorn in Chun's side during this match, and that's gone, now. I have no idea how this one is going to turn out.


Dee Jay - I'm predicting that this one is going to get harder for Chun. Chun's entire gameplan revolved around not rushing at all until she got her Super, but now her Super does quite a lot less damage. On the other hand, it sounds like Dee Jay's moves are much more combo friendly. This one might not turn out as bad as I think, but it's still at least a teensy bit harder for Chun. I'm still calling 5-5 at this point.


Akuma - This one is probably going to be really tough. He has all the tools that Ryu uses to make Chun's life hard, along with some heavy damage combos and an invincible DP to boot. Thank god Akuma takes poor damage. Still, I'm calling 6-4 Akuma at this point.
http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

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Comments

  • GoryusGoryus Joined: Posts: 232
    Why is this combo better than the new nerfed combo? At worst, you'll get one hit off the SBK, which makes it do comparable damage to the upkicks variation. At best, you'll get two hits, which does a good deal of damage more (I'd say you net about 60% damage this way).

    At best, you get 3 additional air hits, not just 2. :lovin:

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  • GureguGuregu M@ssHole Joined: Posts: 46
    Thanks man, this is exactly what I've been looking for. I've had a hard time getting SBK after Chun's super. I'm going to mess around against Gief when I get home from work.
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Yeah wow, I just got the three hits on Ken. So uh...wow, lol!

    Also, a note on using the new Air SBK to avoid fireball corner traps: Be VERY aware of your distance. If your opponent is too close or too far from you, and you Air SBK over it, they can just react by throwing another fireball! This shouldn't be too big of an issue in the corner, but I was definitely wrong about it being MORE safe than before, lol.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

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  • vxninevxnine Joined: Posts: 70
    I got all 3 hits of lk sbk on sagat. super must hit them when they are spaced half a screen away from the corner so that theyll hit the wall properly.

    i tested on ken also but ive only gotten 2 hits with the same spacing
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Here's my day 1 impressions. Keep in mind that while I'm pretty good, I'm not a top player, NOR do I have extensive knowledge of the game after one day. Impressions only:

    I believe that Chun got nerfed through and through. Her better matches are slightly more difficult, and even her worst weakness in my opinion - handling corner fireball traps - has gotten harder to do.

    Now, this sounds really dramatic. Let me say that Chun-Li is still really fucking good. But, I'll be damned if most of her matches aren't worse off. That's bound to happen when you take away a lot of her cheap stuff, like Cross-Up Neckbreaker and the ridiculous Super damage. Her Lightning Legs priority was reduced, too. Now, I fully agree with all these changes - don't get me wrong...

    ...Well, I wouldn't have minded keeping the Crossup Neckbreaker; 99% of everyone I played today got hit by it like six or seven times in a row and a few even threatened to - GOD FORBID - disconnect if I didn't stop. This makes me believe that people just flip out and panic when Chun does that move to begin with. The more I play, the more I think that no one ever bothered to clearly learn how to block the Crossup Neckbreaker in the first place, so the cry for nerfing the Neckbreaker feels really uneducated.

    ...But besides that, I agree wholeheartedly with all those changes. I even really like (hell, I LOVE) the removal of the DF+MK move. Good riddance!

    However, the new SBKs are pretty disastrous overall. The ground SBK starts up faster, but not fast enough to hop fireballs on reaction. In fact, it's still slow enough that characters from about one or two character lengths away can walk up and hit it - hell, in a Chun mirror, Chun can walk up and THROW her before she takes off! Beyond that, it's not an incredibly useful AA unless your opponent doesn't see it coming a mile away. Lastly, it's not incredibly useful for pressure because of how slow the cooldown time is. There were some occasions where I landed a clean hit from a pretty good distance away, and my opponent was able to hit me before I could recover and block.

    Now, you might be saying "well, Chun didn't use the SBK for any of this stuff in the first place, so who cares", right? Well, there may be one problem as a result of the new, 'improved' SBK: The SBK is invulnerable until just before Chun leaves the ground. Now that Chun leaves the ground faster, her invulnerability is shorter. This makes Chun's primary use for the SBK - avoiding crossups - a little HARDER to do than before. I hope I'm wrong, and that the invulnerability isn't shorter as a result, but I don't think I am. I know it doesn't matter now, but I really think the best way to have made the SBK useful was to make it hit during startup (like O Chun), and make it invulnerable to throws. Oh well. It's still usable for it's most important purpose, and it has a few neat gimmicky tricks. I just think that for all intents and purposes, it hurts Chun's game more than it helps.

    More importantly are the Air SBKs. One of Chun's biggest problem was that she couldn't handle fireball traps very effectively unless she had meter for her super. So, how did she build meter in the corner? Air SBKs, of course! If a fireball character was at their sweet spot for a fireball trap, it was perfectly safe for Chun to Air SBK over fireballs to gain meter. If her opponent closed in any further, she could stuff fireballs with her normals; if they gave ground, she could get out of the fireball trap without such problems.

    But now, her new SBK makes it VERY hard to do this safely. It's not even the new motion (charge down+up), it's the new horizontal arc. Now, you have to time how far off the ground you want to do it. If you do it too quickly, you don't go over the fireballs at all. If you go too high, you hang in the air too long, allowing you to be punished for it.

    That being said, I didn't play a lot of incredibly good players that used fireball characters, except one match with David Sirlin (which was awesome by the way!), where he used Ryu. This certainly did prove to me that it was still possible to use the Air SBK for this particular function, but you had to have the timing down really well to use it. I still have no idea how this will fare when I play a good Sagat player.

    So overall, her matches against characters with good fireball traps are a little harder, and her matches against characters without good fireball traps are also a little harder with a few exceptions, mostly due to nerfing of other characters' powerful strategies (like Vega's walldives that no longer knock down).

    I'll still be using Chun, no doubt. It's still not hard to win with her - her rushdown is still incredible. However, I believe that she is even worse off when she gets put on the defensive now. I hope I'm wrong about that :/
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

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  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    :lovin:
    However, I believe that she is even worse off when she gets put on the defensive now. I hope I'm wrong about that :/

    You're not wrong about that. As my experience has been thus far, I have had seriously rough times getting out of throw loops from Sim or meaty cross ups from Guile or Dee Jay. Even Blanka's jumping short to chomp is tough for me to get out of.

    I think Chun is at her best when on the offensive. Good news is her charge is so short that she can walk forward do two quick pokes and kikkoken 2n1 of the second move, I love that.

    I can't rushdown all characters so if I can keep Blanka and Honda at bay I stand a decent chance. I absolutely love when my opponent is in the corner, headstomping them and bouncing back to air SBK backwards to safety.

    Right now nether Ryu or Ken's have been too much of a problem but honestly, that's because the only people really using them haven't been playing them for the passed 4 months. Once the real Shoto players return I imagine the challenge will increase. I learned Chun Li mainly from fighting shotos so really imagine the match ups haven't really changed all the much.

    There are two gian posts already up so I won't go much further. I will say however that it bothers me that Chun can't 2n1 into her stored super from a punch. See you guys back in there. GG's to those I have come across.
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • Warrior's DreamsWarrior's Dreams 梅原 > Wong Joined: Posts: 1,292
    One thing I accidentally did was an IASBK backwards. It looked like an old school SBK, but backwards. Dont know how practical it is, but I thought it looked cool.
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  • KINGKING あなたの母親の膣 Joined: Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    One thing I accidentally did was an IASBK backwards. It looked like an old school SBK, but backwards. Dont know how practical it is, but I thought it looked cool.

    taken from Sirlin.net:


    It turns out that this does have some interesting uses. If you are on the ground and charge down, the go up, then hesistate a moment, then press kick, you can do the aerial version (which travels horizontally, not in an arc) very low to the ground.

    You can even choose whether to do this move toward the opponent, mostly in place, or away from the opponent depending on which way you jumped. I?ve been able to use this move in many tricky situations to go over sweeps, to escape attacks, bait dragon punches, and so on.




    basically, charge down, then ub/u/uf, delay for her to jump, then press kick. your direction of your jump determines what version you get.
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  • VicioustaleVicioustale Slicin Dat Bread Joined: Posts: 336
    How exactly would one go about describing Chun's playstyle?
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  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    ^^ Attack attack attack unless fighting Gief the... RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Basically, if an opponent can wreck you at close range (Gief, Thawk. Blanka, Honda), then keep them out all day. Otherwise, rush them the hell down. Chun does both effectively, but she does hardcore to qcf fireballs if she's put on the defensive.

    EDIT: To keep this thread hot, I added some SBK juggle information that Buktooth posted on another thread. Good job to me for not thinking to do those things in the first place.
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  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    Skankin I just read through your SBK ideas from your first post so I thought I would add my 2 cents on the Air SBK.

    I use this mainly versus Blanka or Gief but in the middle of the screen I will headstomp to SBK. If done at the right time, when Blanks jumps after me I SBK and the few frames of invulnerablility usually save me and blanka takes the hit. Gief on the other hand has a really long way to walk to actch Chun on the way down. it is pretty safe for her to do. I never headstomp a shoto.

    I will also headstomp an opponent (non shoto) when they are in the corner which makes Chun bounce back where she came from. Which in urn if I am playing runaway, I can SBK to go even further back. Or if a Headbutt, Blank Ball, Psycho Crusher or projectile is following me I will SBK to avoid landing on them.

    Lastly, and this is more gimmick against bad player than anything else but I will also jump back, wall jump while holding down forward then SBK on the way down. Back in the day I could avoid SRK's with this but haven't really had opportunity to do so yet in HDR. If anything it's kind of pretty and no one ever really understands how I did it. This is not a tactic I use more than really just to show off.
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Yo, I can see what you're saying about the Air SBK...but I swear I've been hit clean out of the startup. I wanna test it more, but I suspect that Air SBK doesn't have startup invulnerability. Strangely enough, I've found that there are certain parts of the landing that are completely invulnerable, but I don't know which parts.

    My biggest problem with the new SBKs are that it just makes it harder for Chun to get out of certain things when she's on the offensive. I found a match that exemplifies what I want to show perfectly, as it demonstrates two very important uses of the Old SBKs:



    There are two points of interest here:

    A. 0:33 - Ryu goes in for safe jump Hk, and Chun SBKs out of it.

    Crossups and safe jumps are tricky shit for Chun to deal with. Especially in the case of a potential crossup, Upkicks can easily whiff in the wrong direction, so SBK is pretty necessary for that. However, with the quicker startup comes shorter invulnerable time, so it's def harder to do this.

    B. 1:06 - Ryu does a fireball corner trap against Chun; Chun builds meter with Fireballs AND Air SBKs, so that she has leverage to escape the corner with her super.

    Chun used to very easily be able to jump out of a fireball and Air SBK. Now, it's quite a bit harder, for many reasons:

    1. The Air SBK needs to be done at a very specific height; if it's too low, she'll get nailed by the fireballs. If it's too high, well...

    2. She stays in the air longer, making it very easy to punish, since her lower body is completely vulnerable, unlike before, where she could jump up and react accordingly to whether or not Ryu threw a fireball.

    Thankfully, she still HAS options. She can still Air SBK at the right height and be just fine. She can just omit them against other opponents who would otherwise destroy her for using her new Air SBK like Sagat. Hell, she can even omit them against Ryu, but I think that's a very shitty situation, as Chun's only safe option to get out of the corner trap is to super, and she needs to build meter as fast as possible.

    I'm really glad for some of the new situations that arose out of her new Air SBK and motion, but if I could choose between one or the other, I'd definitely choose the old SBKs.

    ...oh yeah. And sometimes, do to the charge down+up motion, I sometimes try to AA with neutral jumping kicks and get Air SBKs, which is really frustrating. I even get them really high into my jump sometimes. This causes me to have to engage in the ridiculous technicality of letting go of the down button during her normals on occasion.
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  • KonqrrKonqrr My wand is ready... Zatanna. Joined: Posts: 1,135
    I will say however that it bothers me that Chun can't 2n1 into her stored super from a punch. See you guys back in there. GG's to those I have come across.

    I was messing around with it and you can combo her super off a ducking Strong, but I wasn't able to get it from a close Fierce punch ;_;
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  • Sirlin Snake ShirtSirlin Snake Shirt Joined: Posts: 303
    Thanks to the new air SBK motion doing jump straight up RH is a real pain if you were charging :/
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  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    I hear what you are saying Skankin but truth be told for me, I don't use the SBK to help me out of fireball traps. That is just my play style but I kneckbreaker to advance a little closer and over fireballs then go into footsies games when in reach.

    As for getting out of cross ups, here is where my game lacks. I never tried using SBK's to get out of them, even back when ST came out. When an opponent would do a real meaty cross up I would block the cross up and immediately start going for a reversal throw. If they throw I have a chance to get a reversal, if they combo my initial block will block the rest of the combo and if they screw the combo up chances are I threw them instead.

    This of course is not the best defense in the world in fact it is lucky at best, so my main strategy, is not to get into a situation where I am easily crossed up.
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • ChunnerChunner Joined: Posts: 137
    well her new sbk is quite ok... dunno which one i prefer, her old one of this one but its not that bad. damage is great too.

    but the thing is i cant combo the super into the sbk yet! i dont like the fact that the upkicks wont combo anymore (or just 1 hit) but oh well...

    do u guys use the 360-pad? i am ;p the d-pad really sucks but the stick is not that bad! at least no probs with charge moves.

    btw pls add me if u wanna fight my chun! im a newbie and using the 360-pad might not be the best combination but i like fighting against chun! :)
    「また遊んであげるわ」♬
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    I hear what you are saying Skankin but truth be told for me, I don't use the SBK to help me out of fireball traps. That is just my play style but I kneckbreaker to advance a little closer and over fireballs then go into footsies games when in reach.

    As for getting out of cross ups, here is where my game lacks. I never tried using SBK's to get out of them, even back when ST came out. When an opponent would do a real meaty cross up I would block the cross up and immediately start going for a reversal throw. If they throw I have a chance to get a reversal, if they combo my initial block will block the rest of the combo and if they screw the combo up chances are I threw them instead.

    This of course is not the best defense in the world in fact it is lucky at best, so my main strategy, is not to get into a situation where I am easily crossed up.

    I getcha...I dunno. The old SBKs were a huge part of my game, so I'm feeling the burn.

    Anyhow, before I stop playing this game for about 2-3 weeks (fucking finals and final projects), I've posted up a 'matchup changes' list. It's not a matchup analysis, but rather, a list of what I think has changed from ST to STHD. I will still do my rounds on the MBs, so if you guys find anything new, I'll still be updating the main post. Someone find something cool with Chun's new stuff whil I'm gone plz :(
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Not liking new SBKs at all. Messes up my on reaction AA jump up HK. I get SBK instead ...


    Also, old SBK, as was mentioned, was way better for getting out of tight situations.


    I cant even do lk SBK after Anti air Upkicks now (to get close, build meter AND stay safe outside of DP range). Utter fail if I try new SBK.


    Looks like a scrub gimmick tool atm. Great for WTF moments, nothing more.


    This chun is sad. New SBK doesnt not equate more fun. Just leave the old one and give me extra input for headstomp and short start up and maybe shorter fall down arc after headstomp (so I can do jMK cross up) or wider hitbox on headstomp (so I could overhead jump back stomp)

    Overhead headstomp gimmick was a lot more fun in SF2.


    I hope somebody (sirlin, Backbone, God) reads this and if we ever get a patch, change this good awful move or put the old SBK back. For change, I recommend that the start up is much faster or goes faster up AND come down faster, shorter range. Kinda like Hondas short/LK down up splash butt drop charge special.



    chun_li1
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • KonqrrKonqrr My wand is ready... Zatanna. Joined: Posts: 1,135
    I was messing around with it and you can combo her super off a ducking Strong, but I wasn't able to get it from a close Fierce punch ;_;

    I tried this today and it wouldn't combo ;_; But for some reason I was able to land a cr.strong, st.forward into the super.
    Injustice - Killer Frost, Zatanna, Hawkgirl; MK9 - Kitana, Kabal; KI - Orchid, Spinal
    SC - Ivy; AE - Chun Li, Balrog, Cammy; TTT2 - Nina, Baek, Jun
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Holy shit, Akuma has the scariest lockdown I've ever seen. I played Sirlin today - not because we're buddies mind you :( but by chance- and he did the coolest thing (for Akuma, not for Chun :P) :

    Once he got me in the corner and knocked me down, he got just outside the range of my longest range air attack (Neutral J.Hk) and did this:

    Neutral Jump Jab Fireball \/ C.Mk xx ?p fireball (not sure which one, but I'm guessing Lp), Tk Fireball \/ C.Mk xx fireball xN.

    The neutral jump fireball makes sure that Chun can't reverse it, and it's intentionally not meaty, so as to allow Chun to try and jump out of it. A forward jump will cause you to hit the air fireball, and a neutral jump will leave you in a spot of trouble, too. Afterwards, the TK fireball is the only spot where you can reversal, and it's still risky. Even if you land the reversal, it'll be a trade, and if you mess up, you eat a combo or get reset.

    Another thing that I didn't think to try until the match was over is to simply triangle jump out of it, but that could also be risky. If someone gets stuck in this lockdown pattern, try triangle jumping out of it and see how safe it is. Any knowledge against Akuma is worth noting, since there's no matchup knowledge against him in the first place.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • ChunnerChunner Joined: Posts: 137
    finally played a match against a srk forumer! it was cool. hope to play u more chunbelievable!

    well the new sbk... just use it at random. i just wish that the start up was quicker and less recovery haha ;p

    oh i discovered one thing that i REALLY dislike!!! its her super move... i know the damage has been reduced by a LOT (i think they should have allowed chun to do her upkicks as a follow up like in ST), but this doesnt count when you are facing against chun.

    in a mirror match against chun, her super will cause around 55-60% damage. its still a 6 hit super, unlike against other characters where it is a 5 hit super along with less damage. argh and i hate playing against sagat as the super usually hits 4 times, the damage is -_-"

    and how do u guys use the sbk as a follow up? i havent be able to do this.
    「また遊んであげるわ」♬
  • CaliLifeStyleCaliLifeStyle C Style Joined: Posts: 437
    So what is a good strategy for fighting against Ryu and Akuma? Those are my two toughest matchups.
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Chun-Li_%28ST%29#Vs._Ryu

    This is a matchup analysis of Chun v Ryu in ST. There's only two considerable differences:

    1. When trying to punish fireballs from fullscreen with J.Foward (J.Mk), know that Ryu can always fake out by either doing Short Hurricane \/ DP, or NOW, he can just do a fake fireball. Be careful trying to do this.

    2. It's no longer safe to whiff Air SBKs when in Ryu's corner trap.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Thawk - I think this one got a little easier. One of the biggest threats in this match overall was the fear of being knocked down by the dive. Not only can Thawk no longer do this, but his 360 loop is gone. I'm gonna wait until I play some better Thawks, but I think this one just got a lot worse for him.

    This match is still retarded in Hawk's favor, and I think even more so now that Dive leaves him so close. Now that Hawk has O. Hawk's d+fp splash, Chun can barely do anything against any Hawk player spamming that move. The only place she's "safe" from repeated cross-up splash is in the corner, which lends it self to tick throw mania. The only reason this Chun mismatch isn't well known is because O. Hawk was barely played until recently with Toutanki and K bringing the pain
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Close S.Mk pretty much beats every jumping Hawk normal, including that splash. In fact, it's pretty easy to beat that splash even with other moves, like Upkicks and even Far S.Hk. Honestly, even if it didn't, the fight is much easier. There were two very scary aspects of this fight, New or Old Hawk (And, by the way, I used O Hawk and had studied this match quite a bit in ST):

    1. Hawk Dive knocked down. If you get knocked down, it's a very good chance you're getting 360'd.

    2. Chun has absolutely NO way to avoid option select 360. If you're cornered, you're dead.

    Now, Hawk can't do either. It's pretty much impossible for Hawk to close the gap on the ground, because C.Mk keeps him at a a distance to where his DP can't hit her - in fact, she's STILL at a safe distance after a Hawk Dive. Thankfully, due to this, the threat of Hawk Dives are no longer there. Hell, I'll even try trading with a few, just for shits and giggles.

    So, Thawk has to jump. This isn't even scary, because S.Mk beats every single jumping attack that Thawk has. Thus, Hawk has to get in close and mind game his way into a knockdown or walkup 360 to get something going now, or catch Chun looking on one of his Jump-ins.

    The match versus O Hawk was already in 5-5 at best - now it's definitely got to be worse.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Close S.Mk pretty much beats every jumping Hawk normal, including that splash. In fact, it's pretty easy to beat that splash even with other moves, like Upkicks and even Far S.Hk. Honestly, even if it didn't, the fight is much easier. There were two very scary aspects of this fight, New or Old Hawk (And, by the way, I used O Hawk and had studied this match quite a bit in ST):

    1. Hawk Dive knocked down. If you get knocked down, it's a very good chance you're getting 360'd.

    2. Chun has absolutely NO way to avoid option select 360. If you're cornered, you're dead.

    Now, Hawk can't do either. It's pretty much impossible for Hawk to close the gap on the ground, because C.Mk keeps him at a a distance to where his DP can't hit her - in fact, she's STILL at a safe distance after a Hawk Dive. Thankfully, due to this, the threat of Hawk Dives are no longer there. Hell, I'll even try trading with a few, just for shits and giggles.

    So, Thawk has to jump. This isn't even scary, because S.Mk beats every single jumping attack that Thawk has. Thus, Hawk has to get in close and mind game his way into a knockdown or walkup 360 to get something going now, or catch Chun looking on one of his Jump-ins.

    The match versus O Hawk was already in 5-5 at best - now it's definitely got to be worse.

    I've played a lot of Chuns on ggpo, and nothing consistently beat O. Hawk's splash right on top of her. Upkicks don't beat splash very consistently, and at least in HD remix, splash beats far st. mk. Granted its going to be harder to land a "meaty" splash since dive doesn't knock down, but once you get Chun to block one, its pretty much a lockdown because nothing animates in time to stop the splash. I was playing against smoothcat on ggpo, and he tried every normal, including close st. rh and close st. mk to knock me out and both got stuffed.

    Its really only useful once Hawk has a lead because the Chun could decide not to panic and just block all of the splashes as they leave Hawk too far away to land cr. jab->SPD or anything remotely scary
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • KerseyKersey Cyrax Wins Joined: Posts: 504
    Wow, Vega roll > legs.

    To me, that just doesn't make sense, its like if he walked up into my legs and threw me.
  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    Granted I am certainly not that good of a Chun player but I will say this about Hawk. I generally have a real problem playing against other Chun players. I was able to abuse a pretty good Chun player with Hawk for the "Masters" achievement. There can be a ton of reasons why this happened but I got two perfect rounds by keeping her pinned.

    I could really used help with her defense. When playing as Chun if I get pinned down I am pretty much screwed. Blanka jumping short, Bison standing short when I got backed into the corner... I can't get out of it. I win because I don't often let myself get into those situations and I do the rushing down, even a little against Gief. But it is when I do get backed up and pinned that the round is over.
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    Wow, Vega roll > legs.

    To me, that just doesn't make sense, its like if he walked up into my legs and threw me.

    That happened to me like three times today and it wasn't command throws, this needs to be fixed as far as I am concerned. I realize if the Lightning Kick combo'd for multiple hits it would be completely retarded but I should be able to be thrown in the middle of it after the first hit has already connected.
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    I've played a lot of Chuns on ggpo, and nothing consistently beat O. Hawk's splash right on top of her. Upkicks don't beat splash very consistently, and at least in HD remix, splash beats far st. mk. Granted its going to be harder to land a "meaty" splash since dive doesn't knock down, but once you get Chun to block one, its pretty much a lockdown because nothing animates in time to stop the splash. I was playing against smoothcat on ggpo, and he tried every normal, including close st. rh and close st. mk to knock me out and both got stuffed.

    Its really only useful once Hawk has a lead because the Chun could decide not to panic and just block all of the splashes as they leave Hawk too far away to land cr. jab->SPD or anything remotely scary

    I'm intrigued; I really want to see if I'm wrong or right. Care to friend me or invite me to a match? My gamertag is Skankin Garbage.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    I'm intrigued; I really want to see if I'm wrong or right. Care to friend me or invite me to a match? My gamertag is Skankin Garbage.

    I'll add you, probably can't play until later tonight I should warn you that I"m pretty garbage on the EX2 compared to my ps3 controller options, In the meantime check out at 0:35 and [url] at 0:12. I can't say that I've ever been thrown after hitting with an early splash though.[/url]
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • VicioustaleVicioustale Slicin Dat Bread Joined: Posts: 336
    Well I'm kind of new to ST overall and I played some games today, I had some trouble with Claw,Boxer, and Sagat(I won this one, but it was hard fought and the guy was clearly new, I realized if he was slightly better I probably would've lost) anyone care to elaborate on these 3 matches?
    Hank Pym=Chris Brown?
    GamingVice.net- What's your vice?
  • ChunnerChunner Joined: Posts: 137
    Well I had some probs with Claw too. I lost the first 2 rounds and I thought it was over but in the end I won the match by throwing Claw all the time. Just be sure not let him do his wall jump and if he does... triangle jump mk or air throw.

    Against Rog I will just keep throwing fireballs and jump back mk, fireball, jump back mk, fireball... and if he is too close I will headstomp him and air SBK to get some space.
    「また遊んであげるわ」♬
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    basically, chun's ground sbk is the only new point of interest for her in this game

    uses:

    - has lower body invul on landing. if you do it outside of dp range, the move is basically safe to use to advance forward... as long as you went through a fireball

    - allows chun to safely advance through a fullscreen fireball while still storing super. this is kind of a big deal, because in her biggest problem matches (ryu sagat) even after you built a full bar you still had to find a way to get into midrange with it. this is probably chun's biggest buff

    - (untested) new sbk is probably a good counter to vega's wall dive, which is something she really lacked before. theoretically, you should be able to just sbk as soon as you see vega go to the wall

    lightning legs is basically nerfed; them being easier doesn't really amount to anything, since most chun players got them whenever they wanted anyway. lower damage and having a vulnerable hitbox in the middle area strictly lessens the potential of the move

    air sbk is pretty useless for the most part. backwards air sbks is ok for going over low tigers while still keeping a horizontal charge for a fireball, but i cant find much other use for it

    it's also a nerf compared to the previous sbk, which was useful for building meter jumping back against ryu and sagat (her main problem matches)

    df+roundhouse got a huge nerf. now instead of setting that up after a knockdown you now have to go for a jumping crossup (not possible in a lot of cases) or meaty low forward (risky)

    overall chun is worse than her st incarnation, though possibly a bit more interesting depending on if more uses for her ground sbk appear
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • *Onslaught**Onslaught* Truly Outrageous Rushdown Joined: Posts: 900
    Her sbk is a sick anti-air. I generally use it once I've conditioned my opponent to jump over my fireballs.
    Rushing your ass down one truly outrageous dive kick at a time.
  • chunbelievablechunbelievable Old AF Joined: Posts: 1,351
    I do the same, I'll even cancel off a low forward once my opponents figure out they can jump over a jab kikkoken cancelled off the same move. The sooner the move is done there is a better chance of an anti air.
    CFN: CHUN_SHOW or fikCHUN
  • zasszass Da 'Mizer Joined: Posts: 1,122
    For me, I feel that Chun has gotten nerfed "on paper", but has gotten stronger for players like me. Why? Because easier to mash lightning legs.

    In old ST, I couldn't do stand fierce XX RH Legs , or low forw xx legs consistently. Now I can.

    So if you're buktooth, NKI, Nuki, or someone that could do all of those things before, she's way weaker. But if you're like me, and couldn't do them, she's effectively much stronger. Now I have options I simply didn't have before.

    My XBLA ranking is probably shit now (trying to learn blanka), but I was able to get #1 on ranking a couple of days ago by playing regular ST chun li style and adding LL combos to my repertoire.
    Taking shit back to the RESERVOIR
    http://tea-hawk.blogspot.com

    SF2 Code v1.0: t+ c+ T+ r+(-) f g+ m+ s+ v+ M+(-) n+:++ o+ (av by Tat Guy)
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  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    I figured out a fun tricky use for her new SBK. Jump in RH, st.MP, cr.MK xx RH SBK. The SBK doesn't really combo, but it can make the opponent go WTF. And if they do anything other than block or SRK, it'll probably hit them for the dizzy. If it dizzies, repeat this combo and then walk up throw instead of SBK FTW.

    Certainly not solid, but it's a fun mixup when you get the chance for a clean jump-in :wgrin:
  • GoryusGoryus Joined: Posts: 232
    Straight jumping horizontal SBK has some weird properties. It's hard to do, but it seems to be just better than her old jump-back-over-fireballs-to-charge-meter version.
    I contend we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
    When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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