Chun-Li HD Remix

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  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    basically, chun's ground sbk is the only new point of interest for her in this game

    uses:

    - has lower body invul on landing. if you do it outside of dp range, the move is basically safe to use to advance forward... as long as you went through a fireball

    How exactly are you using it to go safely through fireballs? I can't really figure out how to use it effectively for this :/ Here's the problems I'm having:

    1. You can't use it to actually go OVER fast fireballs on reaction. Seriously, she still doesn't leave the ground in time, so you have to anticipate a fireball. For this reason, I find that I get beat by fireball guessing games, where if Ryu throws a jab fireball, and I anticipated a fierce fireball, I just SBK right into the hadouken.

    2. The Short SBK has enough invulnerability to go through a Fierce fireball, but I have trouble getting it through Jab fireballs. The other ones don't have much of a chance. Even then, if you go through a fireball from a range where you won't get Anti-air'd, the fireball will leave the screen fast enough for a fireball character to simply throw another fireball and knock you down.

    I would love to know how you're using it, cos I'm having a lot of trouble thinking of any other way to use it :(



    - allows chun to safely advance through a fullscreen fireball while still storing super. this is kind of a big deal, because in her biggest problem matches (ryu sagat) even after you built a full bar you still had to find a way to get into midrange with it. this is probably chun's biggest buff

    Actually, I disagree with this. This may have been a problem against Sagat in ST, where you could anticipate a fireball, jump over it, and STILL not land in time to avoid a Tiger Uppercut. But, it was never a problem with Ryu, and it's not so much of a problem for Chun anymore. The way you do this with Chun is to just hit one of their fireballs with a Chundouken, while buffering your super. Then, hold towards your opponent and see what they do. If they throw another fireball, you can jump over that shit and hit them with J.Forward. If they do anything else, usually some sort of maneuver to put them in range for a DP, just continue to walk towards them until they try to do something to stop you. It's a pretty safe guessing game. At this point, I feel like Chun's SBK is too volatile to rely on for this.
    - (untested) new sbk is probably a good counter to vega's wall dive, which is something she really lacked before. theoretically, you should be able to just sbk as soon as you see vega go to the wall

    This is a really good idea :O I wanna try this, but my internet is being stupid and every match I find has really high ping. I can't even do a ghetto test on the CPU Vega because he treats walldives like the antichrist. In twenty minutes of waiting for Vega to walldive, he did two: The first one he did the Walldive throw, which beat it clean (I did the SBK pretty early, so that Vega was right above me when he did this, and we were both really high off the ground), and he did the punch walldive, which the SBK beat clean. If there is a braindead way to time this, it might be good.

    EDIT: So, I tested this against a few Vega players, and unfortunately, the new SBK ain't shit against walldives. It does beat the punch walldives clean, but then again, so did fireballs. Vega can hit the SBKs clean AND throw them, no problem. Also, it doesn't work to catch fakeouts from far away, because he'll land before you. I'd say, continue with what works in this matchup: Use fireballs if you think Vega is gonna do a fake out or punch walldive, and otherwise, your best tactics are J.Short, J.Forward. Neutral J.Roundhouse, or Upkicks.
    df+roundhouse got a huge nerf. now instead of setting that up after a knockdown you now have to go for a jumping crossup (not possible in a lot of cases) or meaty low forward (risky)

    It's still useful for setting up a guessing game. If you do a meaty df+roundhouse, you can tick with either Jab or Strong, and then either throw, C.Mk, C.Hp chain (if this doesn't dizzy the opponent, they'll only be one hit away), or wait, to bait reversal DPs. You can also do a meaty fireball (better against most characters anyways), or meaty C.Lk at the very farthest range; this will actually cause some DPs - like Ryu's - to whiff, leaving you in a really good position to punish them.

    Lastly, if you're amazing (not me :/ ), you can do safe jump J.Lk against some characters.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Could some1 test following?


    Use SBK on a jump in opponent, normal jump attacks, Air fireball, hondas down up move (time late just like Hondas up down move)?


    Use SBK on wake up to avoid meaty jump in or cross up?


    Also, note if SBK hits, whiffs, geets knocked out.


    I think it might not work cuz I got the feeling invulnerabilty got lessened, but you never know.


    chun_li1
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • sonny8988sonny8988 Beastin Fields Joined: Posts: 40
    Question about the neck breaker. Does it need to be meaty in order to start the pressure game with it? I know Ive been doing it late when opponents wake up, and they can throw me instantly after I land from the neckbreaker, but my gut is saying that even if i meaty they will still have a chance to throw me. Are there only specific moves you can do after, eg would a c.mk be too slow to do afterwards?
    More Hood Than Little Red Riding
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    How exactly are you using it to go safely through fireballs?
    you go through fireballs. yes, they have to be non-jab fireballs, but if you take away their option to throw fierce fireballs that's a big deal
    Actually, I disagree with this. This may have been a problem against Sagat in ST, where you could anticipate a fireball, jump over it, and STILL not land in time to avoid a Tiger Uppercut. But, it was never a problem with Ryu, and it's not so much of a problem for Chun anymore. The way you do this with Chun is to just hit one of their fireballs with a Chundouken, while buffering your super. Then, hold towards your opponent and see what they do. If they throw another fireball, you can jump over that shit and hit them with J.Forward. If they do anything else, usually some sort of maneuver to put them in range for a DP, just continue to walk towards them until they try to do something to stop you. It's a pretty safe guessing game. At this point, I feel like Chun's SBK is too volatile to rely on for this.
    if you could reliably jump over every ryu fireball on reaction (with chun!), then the wouldn't be a problem match at all. without the new sbk, to get into range to threaten with the super you have to make 1-2 correct guesses (1 if you jump, 2 if you go the ground route)

    the point i was making with the new sbk is that it allows you to safely advance forward while still storing the super. you go through a fireball, and if they stick out anything when you land, they get supered
    It's still useful for setting up a guessing game. If you do a meaty df+roundhouse, you can tick with either Jab or Strong, and then either throw, C.Mk, C.Hp chain (if this doesn't dizzy the opponent, they'll only be one hit away), or wait, to bait reversal DPs. You can also do a meaty fireball (better against most characters anyways), or meaty C.Lk at the very farthest range; this will actually cause some DPs - like Ryu's - to whiff, leaving you in a really good position to punish them.

    Lastly, if you're amazing (not me :/ ), you can do safe jump J.Lk against some characters.
    it doesn't let you do anything that you couldn't with a simple meaty low forward. after a meaty df+roundhouse, your next attack is going to go the wrong way unless you wait a split second. this really minimizes the frame advantage that you have here, so you basically have a watered-down low forward situation with a much greater chance of getting thrown or dp'ed

    i still use it because people are still trying to block it as a cross up, but for all intents and purposes there's one less option open to chun on wakeup now
    So, I tested this against a few Vega players, and unfortunately, the new SBK ain't shit against walldives.
    that's a shame. i kind of figured anyway from playing yesterday, since all sorts of jump ins were beating sbks
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    In old ST, I couldn't do stand fierce XX RH Legs , or low forw xx legs consistently. Now I can.
    i'm pretty sure fierce -> rh legs doesn't combo. you have to do short or forward legs

    in old st, the jump fierce -> fierce -> legs combo is braindead easy:

    jump -> mash fierce+short

    now you kind of have to finesse it. i actually just do fierce fierce fireball instead now

    being able to just pull out low forward -> legs out of nowhere is kind of interesting, but it's not really all that useful except for chip damage. if you can hit low forward -> legs, you can also jump low forward into sweep (knockdown) or low fierce (possible dizzy)
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    you go through fireballs. yes, they have to be non-jab fireballs, but if you take away their option to throw fierce fireballs that's a big deal


    if you could reliably jump over every ryu fireball on reaction (with chun!), then the wouldn't be a problem match at all. without the new sbk, to get into range to threaten with the super you have to make 1-2 correct guesses (1 if you jump, 2 if you go the ground route)

    the point i was making with the new sbk is that it allows you to safely advance forward while still storing the super. you go through a fireball, and if they stick out anything when you land, they get supered

    To each their own, I suppose...I still can't figure out how to SBK through a fireball safely. My biggest problem is that even if I SBK right through a fireball, the fireball will leave the screen in time that my opponent can AA me with another fireball. This is especially true from fullscreen more than anything, because they'll be able to throw another fireball just as you're leaving the ground - more than enough time to hit you. Is there a particular range that you do it from to avoid this?
    it doesn't let you do anything that you couldn't with a simple meaty low forward. after a meaty df+roundhouse, your next attack is going to go the wrong way unless you wait a split second. this really minimizes the frame advantage that you have here, so you basically have a watered-down low forward situation with a much greater chance of getting thrown or dp'ed

    You only get a backwards attack if you do your attack, like, immediately as you land. The only time I ever get backwards attacks with consistency are when I try DF+Roundhouse \/ Lightning Legs. But yeah, DF+Roundhouse \/ Jab/Strong puts you in a lot better of a position to try things than a meaty low Forward, like you can throw them more easily, or do any sort of link combo more easily. This is, in my opinion, what keeps meaty DF+Roundhouse useful.

    i still use it because people are still trying to block it as a cross up, but for all intents and purposes there's one less option open to chun on wakeup now

    ...I didn't really have anything substantial to say about this, other than I love that people panic to this shit :P
    that's a shame. i kind of figured anyway from playing yesterday, since all sorts of jump ins were beating sbks

    It's really a terrible anti-air, unless you use it as a surprise move at the beginning of the round. It's not very safe to do so, though.

    Something else I think I noticed about SBKs, is that I think the recovery on all three are slightly different. So far, I rarely get punished for blocked Short SBKs, but it's virtually a free hit when I do the forward and roundhouse version. This makes me think there's not much reason to do any other version:

    - All three versions travel about the same distance, and all of them land three hits for about the same amount of damage

    - Short SBK is the only one you can use to get all the hits of that really situational super juggle

    - Short SBK is safest on block

    - And, Short SBK has the longest startup invulnerability.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Here's another weird use for the Air SBK...

    This is REALLY hard to do. But it is possible, and I can't put it past anyone to get really good at ridiculously hard things. But if you "Juice Kick" the SBK (Juice Kick being like Ken's Air Hurricane Kick at the lowest point possible), the Air SBK will actually hit crouching people and it is almost compeltely safe after blocking. I did it to my friend who was using Balrog and I got two Blocked hits, he did a Reversal Balrog Super, and I blocked it.

    But again, it's super hard, and if you miss it, you fly above their head pretty much to die.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Sounds like the new SBK is mostly just situational shenanigans. Sigh.


    I actually used a lot of O.Chun in ST (you know, the one with a very usefull SBK) so i am hating on Remix Chun so far :(.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Heh, that's rough to have to go from O Chun SBK to this one, lol. Honestly, I think if they at LEAST made the SBK invulnerable to throws, it would have been useful. I was hoping for that change more than anything, so these new fubar SBKs are just killing me!
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Here's another weird use for the Air SBK...

    This is REALLY hard to do. But it is possible, and I can't put it past anyone to get really good at ridiculously hard things. But if you "Juice Kick" the SBK (Juice Kick being like Ken's Air Hurricane Kick at the lowest point possible), the Air SBK will actually hit crouching people and it is almost compeltely safe after blocking. I did it to my friend who was using Balrog and I got two Blocked hits, he did a Reversal Balrog Super, and I blocked it.

    But again, it's super hard, and if you miss it, you fly above their head pretty much to die.

    - James


    Doesnt always hit, whiffs more then hit on crouch. tried this on cammy and gief, sagat. (tried it in trainings mode, could be wrong about it in actual play)


    chun_li1
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 513 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    IMO new SBK ruined Chun Li, she depends on her instant jumping moves to counter. Now it's always Spinning birda kick = eat a shawerma combo !.
    The old motion never effected her AA game like the new SBK.
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    Super Combo finisher

    Does chun's SBK as the super combo finisher only work in the corner??

    If you're doing the super combo mid screen is it best to use upkicks rather than SBK as the finisher?
  • vxninevxnine Joined: Posts: 70
    Does chun's SBK as the super combo finisher only work in the corner??

    If you're doing the super combo mid screen is it best to use upkicks rather than SBK as the finisher?

    it only works in the corner. they have to hit the corner in a specific way that will allow sbk to connect
    IMO new SBK ruined Chun Li, she depends on her instant jumping moves to counter. Now it's always Spinning birda kick = eat a shawerma combo !.
    The old motion never effected her AA game like the new SBK.

    this
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    Here's another weird use for the Air SBK...

    This is REALLY hard to do. But it is possible, and I can't put it past anyone to get really good at ridiculously hard things. But if you "Juice Kick" the SBK (Juice Kick being like Ken's Air Hurricane Kick at the lowest point possible), the Air SBK will actually hit crouching people and it is almost compeltely safe after blocking. I did it to my friend who was using Balrog and I got two Blocked hits, he did a Reversal Balrog Super, and I blocked it.

    But again, it's super hard, and if you miss it, you fly above their head pretty much to die.

    LOL, yeah, if you're referring to the "breakdance SBK" where she's essentially SBK'ing in place with her head on the ground, that is a blast (if you can do it).

    I did that accidentally a couple of times, and it rocked. Too bad it's so hard to perform.
    "MiloDC is quite cute. I'm gay." -- Shari
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    LOL, yeah, if you're referring to the "breakdance SBK" where she's essentially SBK'ing in place with her head on the ground, that is a blast (if you can do it).

    I did that accidentally a couple of times, and it rocked. Too bad it's so hard to perform.

    lmao! I'm stealing that name and pretending I came up with it :P You can actually do a BDSBK that moves forward or backward though.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • C/J/FC/J/F Red Dragon Edition Joined: Posts: 365
    I think the lightning legs are pretty good, considering you can do

    walk up low short XX lightning legs

    really easily.... this is really good I think cause low short hits pretty quickly. Good for throw mixups.
    SF4: Sagat
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    im pretty sure low short is actually slower than low forward

    i find it weird that you guys are using jumping moves as anti air... when you have a down charge

    if they're at a weird angle and you're so used to jumping at them, why not just airthrow instead
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Upkicks aren't reliable anti-air all the time, and if you're rushing someone, you probably don't have a down charge.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    then there's no chance of you getting air sbk on accident
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Doesnt always hit, whiffs more then hit on crouch. tried this on cammy and gief, sagat. (tried it in trainings mode, could be wrong about it in actual play)


    chun_li1

    It whiffs only because it's timed wrong. Again, I swear you only have a 1 or 2 frame window to get the right timing. Otherwise, you do it on the ground or too high. If you can get good at it, I honestly think it'll be REALLY good, because it's a good attack and is virtually 100% safe and does chip damage, and the start up is invincible.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    lmao! I'm stealing that name and pretending I came up with it :P You can actually do a BDSBK that moves forward or backward though.

    Heh, yeah, although those are actually simpler to do. In fact, I often get those whenever I try to do the in-place version.
    "MiloDC is quite cute. I'm gay." -- Shari
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Upkicks aren't reliable anti-air all the time, and if you're rushing someone, you probably don't have a down charge.


    100% correct. Upkicks are garbage compared to all other types of upkicks (DJ, Guile). At least it has fewer downsides on block, whiff.


    Lots of stuff beats its. I had upkicks whiff a jump in cuz the person wasnt pressing anything or better yet, a certain character jumps in with Jab, I do upkicks and get 1. first hit whiffs, second gets blocked cuz theyre on the ground by then. 2. upkicks get beaten out since I did it too early.

    Shit like that doesnt happen w/ DJ or Vegas upkicks.


    And whats wrong w/ jump up RH? Otochun uses it, he is notorious for doing it as Anti Air. Payoff is also very good since comes out fast, far hitbox, and KNOCKDOWN!

    eg. upkick Vegas wall dive? LMAO. Right ... Youre better off doing jump up RH.

    Besides, Chuns anti air game is all about mixing it up. Some1 wants to upkick every jump in, go ahead. Just wait until you fight Shotos who do Air tatsus on you (as in, they know youre gonna upkick)


    And whats this about airthrows? lol Im 100% sure, instant jump up RH is faster then airthrow attempt. Oh yeah, I Airthrow on occasion, but try that on Hawk dive, j. Jabs, Gief lol, just to name a few, have fun.


    Chuns j. up RH = 3 f start up. 3 FRAMES!!! 13 f active


    Chuns upkkicks, forward vers = 4 f start up, 4 active for 1. hit of it

    short vers. 6 f start up


    And dont get me started on the hitbox of upkicks, pls.


    @ skankin garbage

    Good posts so far. Keep it up.


    chun_li1
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    It whiffs only because it's timed wrong. Again, I swear you only have a 1 or 2 frame window to get the right timing. Otherwise, you do it on the ground or too high. If you can get good at it, I honestly think it'll be REALLY good, because it's a good attack and is virtually 100% safe and does chip damage, and the start up is invincible.

    - James


    Yes, you are correct. I just realised my buttons are messed up, couldnt even do LLs decently. Switched to a old stick and I got it more consistent. And yes, very hard to do cleanly.

    Also, doesnt work against crouch Blanka. But thats no suprise.


    chun_li1


    PS. If any1 practices this, turn off the guard, otherwise dummy will always slightly block high while in crouch.
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    yes, chuns anti airs are spotty. upkicks are definitely the most consistent though. jump straight up roundhouse/short loses to a lot more things than upkicks, and you also have to factor in jumping attacks that people tend to stick out early in the jump, like thawk or fei jump jab

    and saying one move is faster than the other is pretty irrelevant, when one move has invincibility

    there is a place for both, for sure, but the vast majority of the time if you have a charge, you're better off doing upkicks
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    That's it, fuck air SBK.JRZKZHRKLNKLRAN
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    I actually find Upkicks to be the least reliable AA in a normal situation. Except for a select few matches, I try to use the Upkicks as a reversal only. The big irony is that a lot of matches where Chun has to keep an opponent out, Upkicks are too volatile to use against (Thawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Zangief, Honda etc.). On other matches, the situations where Upkicks would be useful are rare (Dhalsim, Boxer).Most of the time, I find her most reliable AAs are Standing Forward (especially the close version), Neutral/Normal Jumping Short, or Neutral Jumping Roundhouse.

    The few matches where I always go for Upkicks if I have the charge are Ryu, Chun, and Claw. For Ryu and Chun, they simply have jump-ins that can't reliably be beat by any ground AA but Upkicks, and for Claw, well, Claw just kicks the crap out of all of Chun's normals, lol. I just get right outside of his C.Mp range and pressure with C.Mk, Fireballs, and Lightning Legs while holding d/b as much as possible. It's easy to beat any of Claw's jump-ins with Upkicks (not counting walldives).
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    What beats honda torpedos on the ground? What about the air? Only lightning legs?

    Also buttslam is a pain now, neutral jumping roundhouse works but i'm always scared shitless of doing the gay orgy i mean air SBK instead.
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    There's not much of a reason to crouch unless he gets really close, and to offset the Air SBKs, you can let go of down during the animations of your crouching attacks.

    The way I generally play Honda is really simple: Fireball all day from about a half screen distance away (just outside the max range of his Jab Torpedo), and see what he does. This will make it hard for him to close the gap by simply Torpedo'ing, and if you're tricky, you can AA him with the fireballs. Anyhow, try to make him land on fireballs, but:

    - If he does Jab Torpedo, walk up and punish.

    - If he buttslams through your fireballs from far away, walk up and punish.

    - If you think he's gonna jump over a fireball and be close enough to pressure you, Jumping Fierce will beat pretty much everything he does in the air. Just be careful, because a good Honda player will bait you (or learn to start baiting you).
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    I see, thanks. I've been doing a little better against him since i started turtling more. Alot of jumping back, alot of neutral j.lk and just safe safe and patient poking. Jab torpedo is a mystery to me so far so i don't fireball much, i'll try to walk up and punish it more.

    Vega was also very tricky to deal with at first due to air SBK, but same as honda i started going into super turtle mode and it's better now.
    The matchup that gives me the most trouble is sagat. Once he gets in his jumpins are very hard to stop for me unless i predict one, let go the charge then do the neutral j.HK.
    As a result i have to keep him at a distance, where sagat is also very good.
    Not to mention that jumping randomly can make me eat a knee, which is doom.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    I actually find Upkicks to be the least reliable AA in a normal situation. Except for a select few matches, I try to use the Upkicks as a reversal only. The big irony is that a lot of matches where Chun has to keep an opponent out, Upkicks are too volatile to use against (Thawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Zangief, Honda etc.). On other matches, the situations where Upkicks would be useful are rare (Dhalsim, Boxer).Most of the time, I find her most reliable AAs are Standing Forward (especially the close version), Neutral/Normal Jumping Short, or Neutral Jumping Roundhouse.

    thawk and fei jump jabs beat chun's jumping normals, but lose to deep upkicks. blanka jump short beats chun air normals, but will also beat upkicks usually. i generally try to trade with a fireball in that matchup

    gief and honda splashes beat upkicks 100% of the time if they're right over her. close standing forward usually works in that situation, jumping up with normals usually arent fast enough unless youre just jumping up and throwing it out randomly and not on reaction. that's news against gief (free sweep), but not so much against honda
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

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  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    thawk and fei jump jabs beat chun's jumping normals, but lose to deep upkicks. blanka jump short beats chun air normals, but will also beat upkicks usually. i generally try to trade with a fireball in that matchup

    gief and honda splashes beat upkicks 100% of the time if they're right over her. close standing forward usually works in that situation, jumping up with normals usually arent fast enough unless youre just jumping up and throwing it out randomly and not on reaction. that's news against gief (free sweep), but not so much against honda

    Against Hawk, you can beat pretty much every jump in with a Standing Forward. If you're pretty close up (my favorite spot for that matchup is just outside the range for the first hit of his sweep), you might have to do the S.Forward early, but it can definitely beat everything. As for Fei, I don't know if I've ever had any Fei player try jump jab against me, but I generally AA with S.Forward, Neutral J.Short (mostly to beat the Chicken Wing), and rarely with Short Upkicks.

    The only air normal I don't regularly beat with Chun's J.Short (neutral or no) is Blanka's J.Mp. You can beat that with something or other, I forgot what exactly, because I don't fight a lot of good Blankas on STHD :( I'm beginning to get really scrubby in that match

    And yeah, you're in a lot of trouble against Gief or Honda if they get that close to you in the first place...I find that as long as Gief isn't on top of you, S.Forward will beat pretty much anything, and if you can anticipate jumps (not incredibly hard vs Gief :P), Neutral J.Roundhouse wins if you do it early enough. You can even nail him if he's the first to jump.



    For Honda, I just don't know any way to reliably AA Honda but J.Fierce. A lot of his normals at close range just seem to beat a lot of Chun's.
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  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    I actually find Upkicks to be the least reliable AA in a normal situation.

    Most important thing to know: Use SHORT (LK) version ONLY. It has easily the most number of invincible frames. Jump Jab from Hawk, for example, beats both the Roundhouse and Forward versions. But it loses to the Short vesion. Make sure you do it deep. But the Short version is the ONLY one you should ever use as anti-air.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Could someone please list some cross-up set ups, and maybe some touch of death combos?
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Most important thing to know: Use SHORT (LK) version ONLY. It has easily the most number of invincible frames. Jump Jab from Hawk, for example, beats both the Roundhouse and Forward versions. But it loses to the Short vesion. Make sure you do it deep. But the Short version is the ONLY one you should ever use as anti-air.

    - James


    Yeah, true, which kinda sux, less damage/hits.

    Im often tempted to do Forward for more damage cuz of the slight more forward movement, but end up doing short after all to be save.


    @ AAs


    jump up Short in advance is also good for AA. works against anything honda throws at you (his specials etc.) and also against chuns j. short.

    VS. Fei. If you ever get to upkick his jump in, Fei is doing everything wrong. The Fei I play with, if he sees u charged down, hes gonna Chicken wing you. You have nothing against it from crouch block if youre within range of CW.

    I try to zone him, be mobile and stay out of CW range so I can sweep him if he goes for it. If he gets too near, random/anticipated jump up Fierce to kill CW (or rekka lol), get some space again. Sitting on your upkick charge is a big mistake in that match. Not like Guile or DJ.


    Upkicks dont work always against Hawks j. Jab. If he can space it perfectly, your gonna not hit. Also, Chun jump up Fierce beats j. jab, can beat Dive (or you both miss each other lol)

    And I dont feel comfortable sitting on my charge VS hawk. With guile or DJ you can just sit there, duke it out with normals and projectiles. But with chun, smart Hawks will sucker you in if they know youre always going for upkicks when they jump.


    Agreed, upkicks when theyre on top of you, go for it. But smart players dont always jump on you from close. And btw, why are they jumping on you in the first place? :confused: What are you gonna do if you throw kikoken and they jump? Upkicks?:amazed:


    Also, no one doing crouch forward+kikoken (for pushback) as AA? Helps me a lot against eg. Blanka. Makes him guess more.


    Like, if he does j. short, I cr. forward+kikoken. Next time he jumps in and thinks Ill do it again, he will use j. Fierce to beat my cr. forward (which he has to do late, almost at ground level). Instead I do early forward, RH or even better, jump up RH.

    Keep her AA game mixed up. (I just noticed, SF4 chun has the same kind of "diverse" AA game lol)


    chun_li1


    PS. Goddamn breakdance Air SBK is too difficult to get it to hit crouch people consistent. I thought instant j.+down forward pogo was hard. But I get way more pogo overheads out then I get breakdance SBK:rofl: And thats just trainings mode. No idea how its gonna be in online play or regular offline.
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  • VicioustaleVicioustale Slicin Dat Bread Joined: Posts: 336
    This may sound obvious but Chun aas seem to be situational, so far in my play time as Chun which may be a little limited due to me also trying to play Cammy,Ken, and Claw, but I've noticed for far jumps in, early j.short or jump straight up RH seems to work, st.forward or early st. roundhouse seems to work for close and short up kicks for weird angles. These have worked very consistently for me against all characters.

    Any ideas on building a solid offense with Chun? I feel limited to basic stuff such as either cr.forward or st.strong followed by either throw, fireball, another poke, predict their jump over a fireball and anti-air, or block. Does Chun have anything more creative?
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  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    In my opinion, Chun has a lot of rushdown options compared to most people.

    Her most basic options are S.Mp and C.Mk, of course. With S.Mp, you use it to force them to block, and then you can follow it with a number of things. C.Mk is best used just outside of the range where it will hit your opponent, because it makes it dangerous for them to stick out many things; it can also be used as an AA from very far ranges (make the opponent land on it).

    The biggest problem with just sticking to these two options are that you are VERY susceptible to sweeps and DP attacks. You want to mix it up by adding a few other things to your arsenal:

    1. Lightning Legs. This should be a pretty easy one. Do at a range where the Lightning Legs will barely whiff. This will kill just about any ground normal in the game. Best of all, you can charge while doing Lightning Legs. So, you can charge d/b, and get ready to cancel your Lightning Legs to throw out something else. If you're playing a fireball character, or a character with a good DP move, you can just stick out the lightning legs for a split second before cancelling them and throwing a fireball to pressure them, or go right into super (will blow through just about anything, but don't be reckless). Otherwise, most people just try to jump over it, in which case you can cancel it and do Short Upkicks (most invulnerability) or Roundhouse Upkicks (fastest startup) immediately. Oh, and you also build meter while doing this. Cool, huh?

    2. S.Mk. This is an oft-overlooked move for rushing down, in my opinion. This one is a good move for anti-air while rushing down (suppose your opponent just tries to jump over you), but it's also a VERY important rushdown move in Shoto matchups. When you are just outside of a Shoto's sweep range, S.Mk will stuff fireballs and Hurricane Kicks effortlessly. Also, unlike S.Mp (which admittedly stuffs fireballs, too), it won't leave you susceptible to foot sweeps. In fact, if you throw out a S.Mk and see your opponent try and sweep you, you can immediately counter with your own sweep. So, while this move is important in all of three matchups, they're a VERY important key to those matchups.

    3. S.Lp. This one isn't exactly for pressure, but this one is for setting off DP characters. For example, lets say you just anti-air'd someone, so they're gonna get reset you have about three or four options:

    - You can go in and do some sort of meaty attack, which runs a big risk of getting DP'd

    - You can throw a meaty fireball, which is safe, but widens the gap between you and your opponent (unless you're in the corner, in which case, do this)

    - You can try to walk up and then stop, which is kind of awkward to do sometimes, because your opponent will already be reset really close to you, or

    - You can, as they're landing, throw out a S.Lp (while holding back) to make them react with something. This is my favorite one, because it leaves you in a good position to do a lot of things: You can hit them back with a fireball, you can walk up and hit them with a combo as they land (C.Mk, C.Hp or C.Mk, C.Hk), or you can just throw them.

    And, here's some more situational moves:

    - If you are positive that your opponent won't reversal (or you're playing M.Bison), meaty close S.Hp is pretty excellent.

    - C.Lk is nice against DPers, because the hitbox doesn't extend forward like C.Mk does. So, you can use it as a meaty from max range and usually avoid DPs.

    - S.Hk is good if you anticipate that your opponent will jump, cos it'll hit them out of the air immediately. I wouldn't try this TOO often, though. The only situation where I would even use this is if you have just pushed yourself out of the range for most of your attacks by forcing your opponent to block a few. This is the most likely time your opponent will jump, but there's still probably better options.

    - C.Hk of course is useful because its your foot sweep, but don't use it unless you're sure you're going to connect (hit or block), because it's easy to counterattack.

    There's also a bunch of Chun AA's that we've discussed at length in this thread. Go ahead and check those out - you have to learn new ones for almost every match, anyways :P
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • VicioustaleVicioustale Slicin Dat Bread Joined: Posts: 336
    sounds diverse enough, I'm definitely one of those that forgot about st.mk. Thanks for the extra mixup tips, perhaps I won't be dropping Chun-Li.
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  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    Anti sagat strats PLEASE.
    The only matchup where i feel i loose because i picked the wrong character. Seriously i can't do shit.
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Anti sagat strats PLEASE.
    The only matchup where i feel i loose because i picked the wrong character. Seriously i can't do shit.


    Im a lazy guy, so just some words.


    Dont get involved in a prolonged fireball battle. cover the space to get near.

    When you are not yet very near, eg. outside of his sweep range still, dont always go for frontal ground attack. You might run into tiger shot. Instead, do sometimes jump up straight + RH or Fierce when you come down.

    RH for low tiger shot, Fierce for High and Low ones.

    Thats one way of making Sagat hesitate throwing shots out, since his fists extend very far forward when he shoots them. So you can be outside of his Uppercut and normals range, but can still hit his limbs when he fires.


    Also, do not try to low forward his low shot like you would shoto hados. It will whiff. Instead, do something "higher" hitting like crouch RH.


    Also, a good sagat does not stay as far away as he can from you and shoot you up. If he does, do the same and jump in. Not much options there for sagat.


    chun_li1
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  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    Thanks. I tried getting close but that's the whole flaw of the matchup, once i'm close it gets even worse. I'm scared of random neutral jumping RH because of the damn knees. If i evr block just one jumping RH sagat can just jump over and over and there's not much i can do. At that point i'm trapped in blocksun so jumping moves don't come out fast enough to stop him, her normals just loose and i don't have charge for upkicks. It's friggin horrible. I'm sure there's something to stop that but i haven't found it.
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