Chun-Li HD Remix

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  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 483 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    IMO new SBK ruined Chun Li, she depends on her instant jumping moves to counter. Now it's always Spinning birda kick = eat a shawerma combo !.
    The old motion never effected her AA game like the new SBK.
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    Super Combo finisher

    Does chun's SBK as the super combo finisher only work in the corner??

    If you're doing the super combo mid screen is it best to use upkicks rather than SBK as the finisher?
  • vxninevxnine Joined: Posts: 69
    Does chun's SBK as the super combo finisher only work in the corner??

    If you're doing the super combo mid screen is it best to use upkicks rather than SBK as the finisher?

    it only works in the corner. they have to hit the corner in a specific way that will allow sbk to connect
    IMO new SBK ruined Chun Li, she depends on her instant jumping moves to counter. Now it's always Spinning birda kick = eat a shawerma combo !.
    The old motion never effected her AA game like the new SBK.

    this
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    Here's another weird use for the Air SBK...

    This is REALLY hard to do. But it is possible, and I can't put it past anyone to get really good at ridiculously hard things. But if you "Juice Kick" the SBK (Juice Kick being like Ken's Air Hurricane Kick at the lowest point possible), the Air SBK will actually hit crouching people and it is almost compeltely safe after blocking. I did it to my friend who was using Balrog and I got two Blocked hits, he did a Reversal Balrog Super, and I blocked it.

    But again, it's super hard, and if you miss it, you fly above their head pretty much to die.

    LOL, yeah, if you're referring to the "breakdance SBK" where she's essentially SBK'ing in place with her head on the ground, that is a blast (if you can do it).

    I did that accidentally a couple of times, and it rocked. Too bad it's so hard to perform.
    "MiloDC is quite cute. I'm gay." -- Shari
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    LOL, yeah, if you're referring to the "breakdance SBK" where she's essentially SBK'ing in place with her head on the ground, that is a blast (if you can do it).

    I did that accidentally a couple of times, and it rocked. Too bad it's so hard to perform.

    lmao! I'm stealing that name and pretending I came up with it :P You can actually do a BDSBK that moves forward or backward though.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • C/J/FC/J/F Red Dragon Edition Joined: Posts: 365
    I think the lightning legs are pretty good, considering you can do

    walk up low short XX lightning legs

    really easily.... this is really good I think cause low short hits pretty quickly. Good for throw mixups.
    SF4: Sagat
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    im pretty sure low short is actually slower than low forward

    i find it weird that you guys are using jumping moves as anti air... when you have a down charge

    if they're at a weird angle and you're so used to jumping at them, why not just airthrow instead
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Upkicks aren't reliable anti-air all the time, and if you're rushing someone, you probably don't have a down charge.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    then there's no chance of you getting air sbk on accident
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Doesnt always hit, whiffs more then hit on crouch. tried this on cammy and gief, sagat. (tried it in trainings mode, could be wrong about it in actual play)


    chun_li1

    It whiffs only because it's timed wrong. Again, I swear you only have a 1 or 2 frame window to get the right timing. Otherwise, you do it on the ground or too high. If you can get good at it, I honestly think it'll be REALLY good, because it's a good attack and is virtually 100% safe and does chip damage, and the start up is invincible.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    lmao! I'm stealing that name and pretending I came up with it :P You can actually do a BDSBK that moves forward or backward though.

    Heh, yeah, although those are actually simpler to do. In fact, I often get those whenever I try to do the in-place version.
    "MiloDC is quite cute. I'm gay." -- Shari
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Upkicks aren't reliable anti-air all the time, and if you're rushing someone, you probably don't have a down charge.


    100% correct. Upkicks are garbage compared to all other types of upkicks (DJ, Guile). At least it has fewer downsides on block, whiff.


    Lots of stuff beats its. I had upkicks whiff a jump in cuz the person wasnt pressing anything or better yet, a certain character jumps in with Jab, I do upkicks and get 1. first hit whiffs, second gets blocked cuz theyre on the ground by then. 2. upkicks get beaten out since I did it too early.

    Shit like that doesnt happen w/ DJ or Vegas upkicks.


    And whats wrong w/ jump up RH? Otochun uses it, he is notorious for doing it as Anti Air. Payoff is also very good since comes out fast, far hitbox, and KNOCKDOWN!

    eg. upkick Vegas wall dive? LMAO. Right ... Youre better off doing jump up RH.

    Besides, Chuns anti air game is all about mixing it up. Some1 wants to upkick every jump in, go ahead. Just wait until you fight Shotos who do Air tatsus on you (as in, they know youre gonna upkick)


    And whats this about airthrows? lol Im 100% sure, instant jump up RH is faster then airthrow attempt. Oh yeah, I Airthrow on occasion, but try that on Hawk dive, j. Jabs, Gief lol, just to name a few, have fun.


    Chuns j. up RH = 3 f start up. 3 FRAMES!!! 13 f active


    Chuns upkkicks, forward vers = 4 f start up, 4 active for 1. hit of it

    short vers. 6 f start up


    And dont get me started on the hitbox of upkicks, pls.


    @ skankin garbage

    Good posts so far. Keep it up.


    chun_li1
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    It whiffs only because it's timed wrong. Again, I swear you only have a 1 or 2 frame window to get the right timing. Otherwise, you do it on the ground or too high. If you can get good at it, I honestly think it'll be REALLY good, because it's a good attack and is virtually 100% safe and does chip damage, and the start up is invincible.

    - James


    Yes, you are correct. I just realised my buttons are messed up, couldnt even do LLs decently. Switched to a old stick and I got it more consistent. And yes, very hard to do cleanly.

    Also, doesnt work against crouch Blanka. But thats no suprise.


    chun_li1


    PS. If any1 practices this, turn off the guard, otherwise dummy will always slightly block high while in crouch.
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    yes, chuns anti airs are spotty. upkicks are definitely the most consistent though. jump straight up roundhouse/short loses to a lot more things than upkicks, and you also have to factor in jumping attacks that people tend to stick out early in the jump, like thawk or fei jump jab

    and saying one move is faster than the other is pretty irrelevant, when one move has invincibility

    there is a place for both, for sure, but the vast majority of the time if you have a charge, you're better off doing upkicks
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    That's it, fuck air SBK.JRZKZHRKLNKLRAN
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    I actually find Upkicks to be the least reliable AA in a normal situation. Except for a select few matches, I try to use the Upkicks as a reversal only. The big irony is that a lot of matches where Chun has to keep an opponent out, Upkicks are too volatile to use against (Thawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Zangief, Honda etc.). On other matches, the situations where Upkicks would be useful are rare (Dhalsim, Boxer).Most of the time, I find her most reliable AAs are Standing Forward (especially the close version), Neutral/Normal Jumping Short, or Neutral Jumping Roundhouse.

    The few matches where I always go for Upkicks if I have the charge are Ryu, Chun, and Claw. For Ryu and Chun, they simply have jump-ins that can't reliably be beat by any ground AA but Upkicks, and for Claw, well, Claw just kicks the crap out of all of Chun's normals, lol. I just get right outside of his C.Mp range and pressure with C.Mk, Fireballs, and Lightning Legs while holding d/b as much as possible. It's easy to beat any of Claw's jump-ins with Upkicks (not counting walldives).
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    What beats honda torpedos on the ground? What about the air? Only lightning legs?

    Also buttslam is a pain now, neutral jumping roundhouse works but i'm always scared shitless of doing the gay orgy i mean air SBK instead.
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    There's not much of a reason to crouch unless he gets really close, and to offset the Air SBKs, you can let go of down during the animations of your crouching attacks.

    The way I generally play Honda is really simple: Fireball all day from about a half screen distance away (just outside the max range of his Jab Torpedo), and see what he does. This will make it hard for him to close the gap by simply Torpedo'ing, and if you're tricky, you can AA him with the fireballs. Anyhow, try to make him land on fireballs, but:

    - If he does Jab Torpedo, walk up and punish.

    - If he buttslams through your fireballs from far away, walk up and punish.

    - If you think he's gonna jump over a fireball and be close enough to pressure you, Jumping Fierce will beat pretty much everything he does in the air. Just be careful, because a good Honda player will bait you (or learn to start baiting you).
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    I see, thanks. I've been doing a little better against him since i started turtling more. Alot of jumping back, alot of neutral j.lk and just safe safe and patient poking. Jab torpedo is a mystery to me so far so i don't fireball much, i'll try to walk up and punish it more.

    Vega was also very tricky to deal with at first due to air SBK, but same as honda i started going into super turtle mode and it's better now.
    The matchup that gives me the most trouble is sagat. Once he gets in his jumpins are very hard to stop for me unless i predict one, let go the charge then do the neutral j.HK.
    As a result i have to keep him at a distance, where sagat is also very good.
    Not to mention that jumping randomly can make me eat a knee, which is doom.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    I actually find Upkicks to be the least reliable AA in a normal situation. Except for a select few matches, I try to use the Upkicks as a reversal only. The big irony is that a lot of matches where Chun has to keep an opponent out, Upkicks are too volatile to use against (Thawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Zangief, Honda etc.). On other matches, the situations where Upkicks would be useful are rare (Dhalsim, Boxer).Most of the time, I find her most reliable AAs are Standing Forward (especially the close version), Neutral/Normal Jumping Short, or Neutral Jumping Roundhouse.

    thawk and fei jump jabs beat chun's jumping normals, but lose to deep upkicks. blanka jump short beats chun air normals, but will also beat upkicks usually. i generally try to trade with a fireball in that matchup

    gief and honda splashes beat upkicks 100% of the time if they're right over her. close standing forward usually works in that situation, jumping up with normals usually arent fast enough unless youre just jumping up and throwing it out randomly and not on reaction. that's news against gief (free sweep), but not so much against honda
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    thawk and fei jump jabs beat chun's jumping normals, but lose to deep upkicks. blanka jump short beats chun air normals, but will also beat upkicks usually. i generally try to trade with a fireball in that matchup

    gief and honda splashes beat upkicks 100% of the time if they're right over her. close standing forward usually works in that situation, jumping up with normals usually arent fast enough unless youre just jumping up and throwing it out randomly and not on reaction. that's news against gief (free sweep), but not so much against honda

    Against Hawk, you can beat pretty much every jump in with a Standing Forward. If you're pretty close up (my favorite spot for that matchup is just outside the range for the first hit of his sweep), you might have to do the S.Forward early, but it can definitely beat everything. As for Fei, I don't know if I've ever had any Fei player try jump jab against me, but I generally AA with S.Forward, Neutral J.Short (mostly to beat the Chicken Wing), and rarely with Short Upkicks.

    The only air normal I don't regularly beat with Chun's J.Short (neutral or no) is Blanka's J.Mp. You can beat that with something or other, I forgot what exactly, because I don't fight a lot of good Blankas on STHD :( I'm beginning to get really scrubby in that match

    And yeah, you're in a lot of trouble against Gief or Honda if they get that close to you in the first place...I find that as long as Gief isn't on top of you, S.Forward will beat pretty much anything, and if you can anticipate jumps (not incredibly hard vs Gief :P), Neutral J.Roundhouse wins if you do it early enough. You can even nail him if he's the first to jump.



    For Honda, I just don't know any way to reliably AA Honda but J.Fierce. A lot of his normals at close range just seem to beat a lot of Chun's.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    I actually find Upkicks to be the least reliable AA in a normal situation.

    Most important thing to know: Use SHORT (LK) version ONLY. It has easily the most number of invincible frames. Jump Jab from Hawk, for example, beats both the Roundhouse and Forward versions. But it loses to the Short vesion. Make sure you do it deep. But the Short version is the ONLY one you should ever use as anti-air.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Could someone please list some cross-up set ups, and maybe some touch of death combos?
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Most important thing to know: Use SHORT (LK) version ONLY. It has easily the most number of invincible frames. Jump Jab from Hawk, for example, beats both the Roundhouse and Forward versions. But it loses to the Short vesion. Make sure you do it deep. But the Short version is the ONLY one you should ever use as anti-air.

    - James


    Yeah, true, which kinda sux, less damage/hits.

    Im often tempted to do Forward for more damage cuz of the slight more forward movement, but end up doing short after all to be save.


    @ AAs


    jump up Short in advance is also good for AA. works against anything honda throws at you (his specials etc.) and also against chuns j. short.

    VS. Fei. If you ever get to upkick his jump in, Fei is doing everything wrong. The Fei I play with, if he sees u charged down, hes gonna Chicken wing you. You have nothing against it from crouch block if youre within range of CW.

    I try to zone him, be mobile and stay out of CW range so I can sweep him if he goes for it. If he gets too near, random/anticipated jump up Fierce to kill CW (or rekka lol), get some space again. Sitting on your upkick charge is a big mistake in that match. Not like Guile or DJ.


    Upkicks dont work always against Hawks j. Jab. If he can space it perfectly, your gonna not hit. Also, Chun jump up Fierce beats j. jab, can beat Dive (or you both miss each other lol)

    And I dont feel comfortable sitting on my charge VS hawk. With guile or DJ you can just sit there, duke it out with normals and projectiles. But with chun, smart Hawks will sucker you in if they know youre always going for upkicks when they jump.


    Agreed, upkicks when theyre on top of you, go for it. But smart players dont always jump on you from close. And btw, why are they jumping on you in the first place? :confused: What are you gonna do if you throw kikoken and they jump? Upkicks?:amazed:


    Also, no one doing crouch forward+kikoken (for pushback) as AA? Helps me a lot against eg. Blanka. Makes him guess more.


    Like, if he does j. short, I cr. forward+kikoken. Next time he jumps in and thinks Ill do it again, he will use j. Fierce to beat my cr. forward (which he has to do late, almost at ground level). Instead I do early forward, RH or even better, jump up RH.

    Keep her AA game mixed up. (I just noticed, SF4 chun has the same kind of "diverse" AA game lol)


    chun_li1


    PS. Goddamn breakdance Air SBK is too difficult to get it to hit crouch people consistent. I thought instant j.+down forward pogo was hard. But I get way more pogo overheads out then I get breakdance SBK:rofl: And thats just trainings mode. No idea how its gonna be in online play or regular offline.
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • VicioustaleVicioustale Slicin Dat Bread Joined: Posts: 336
    This may sound obvious but Chun aas seem to be situational, so far in my play time as Chun which may be a little limited due to me also trying to play Cammy,Ken, and Claw, but I've noticed for far jumps in, early j.short or jump straight up RH seems to work, st.forward or early st. roundhouse seems to work for close and short up kicks for weird angles. These have worked very consistently for me against all characters.

    Any ideas on building a solid offense with Chun? I feel limited to basic stuff such as either cr.forward or st.strong followed by either throw, fireball, another poke, predict their jump over a fireball and anti-air, or block. Does Chun have anything more creative?
    Hank Pym=Chris Brown?
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  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    In my opinion, Chun has a lot of rushdown options compared to most people.

    Her most basic options are S.Mp and C.Mk, of course. With S.Mp, you use it to force them to block, and then you can follow it with a number of things. C.Mk is best used just outside of the range where it will hit your opponent, because it makes it dangerous for them to stick out many things; it can also be used as an AA from very far ranges (make the opponent land on it).

    The biggest problem with just sticking to these two options are that you are VERY susceptible to sweeps and DP attacks. You want to mix it up by adding a few other things to your arsenal:

    1. Lightning Legs. This should be a pretty easy one. Do at a range where the Lightning Legs will barely whiff. This will kill just about any ground normal in the game. Best of all, you can charge while doing Lightning Legs. So, you can charge d/b, and get ready to cancel your Lightning Legs to throw out something else. If you're playing a fireball character, or a character with a good DP move, you can just stick out the lightning legs for a split second before cancelling them and throwing a fireball to pressure them, or go right into super (will blow through just about anything, but don't be reckless). Otherwise, most people just try to jump over it, in which case you can cancel it and do Short Upkicks (most invulnerability) or Roundhouse Upkicks (fastest startup) immediately. Oh, and you also build meter while doing this. Cool, huh?

    2. S.Mk. This is an oft-overlooked move for rushing down, in my opinion. This one is a good move for anti-air while rushing down (suppose your opponent just tries to jump over you), but it's also a VERY important rushdown move in Shoto matchups. When you are just outside of a Shoto's sweep range, S.Mk will stuff fireballs and Hurricane Kicks effortlessly. Also, unlike S.Mp (which admittedly stuffs fireballs, too), it won't leave you susceptible to foot sweeps. In fact, if you throw out a S.Mk and see your opponent try and sweep you, you can immediately counter with your own sweep. So, while this move is important in all of three matchups, they're a VERY important key to those matchups.

    3. S.Lp. This one isn't exactly for pressure, but this one is for setting off DP characters. For example, lets say you just anti-air'd someone, so they're gonna get reset you have about three or four options:

    - You can go in and do some sort of meaty attack, which runs a big risk of getting DP'd

    - You can throw a meaty fireball, which is safe, but widens the gap between you and your opponent (unless you're in the corner, in which case, do this)

    - You can try to walk up and then stop, which is kind of awkward to do sometimes, because your opponent will already be reset really close to you, or

    - You can, as they're landing, throw out a S.Lp (while holding back) to make them react with something. This is my favorite one, because it leaves you in a good position to do a lot of things: You can hit them back with a fireball, you can walk up and hit them with a combo as they land (C.Mk, C.Hp or C.Mk, C.Hk), or you can just throw them.

    And, here's some more situational moves:

    - If you are positive that your opponent won't reversal (or you're playing M.Bison), meaty close S.Hp is pretty excellent.

    - C.Lk is nice against DPers, because the hitbox doesn't extend forward like C.Mk does. So, you can use it as a meaty from max range and usually avoid DPs.

    - S.Hk is good if you anticipate that your opponent will jump, cos it'll hit them out of the air immediately. I wouldn't try this TOO often, though. The only situation where I would even use this is if you have just pushed yourself out of the range for most of your attacks by forcing your opponent to block a few. This is the most likely time your opponent will jump, but there's still probably better options.

    - C.Hk of course is useful because its your foot sweep, but don't use it unless you're sure you're going to connect (hit or block), because it's easy to counterattack.

    There's also a bunch of Chun AA's that we've discussed at length in this thread. Go ahead and check those out - you have to learn new ones for almost every match, anyways :P
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • VicioustaleVicioustale Slicin Dat Bread Joined: Posts: 336
    sounds diverse enough, I'm definitely one of those that forgot about st.mk. Thanks for the extra mixup tips, perhaps I won't be dropping Chun-Li.
    Hank Pym=Chris Brown?
    GamingVice.net- What's your vice?
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    Anti sagat strats PLEASE.
    The only matchup where i feel i loose because i picked the wrong character. Seriously i can't do shit.
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Anti sagat strats PLEASE.
    The only matchup where i feel i loose because i picked the wrong character. Seriously i can't do shit.


    Im a lazy guy, so just some words.


    Dont get involved in a prolonged fireball battle. cover the space to get near.

    When you are not yet very near, eg. outside of his sweep range still, dont always go for frontal ground attack. You might run into tiger shot. Instead, do sometimes jump up straight + RH or Fierce when you come down.

    RH for low tiger shot, Fierce for High and Low ones.

    Thats one way of making Sagat hesitate throwing shots out, since his fists extend very far forward when he shoots them. So you can be outside of his Uppercut and normals range, but can still hit his limbs when he fires.


    Also, do not try to low forward his low shot like you would shoto hados. It will whiff. Instead, do something "higher" hitting like crouch RH.


    Also, a good sagat does not stay as far away as he can from you and shoot you up. If he does, do the same and jump in. Not much options there for sagat.


    chun_li1
    Space Nazis Incoming : http://www.ironsky.net/
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    Thanks. I tried getting close but that's the whole flaw of the matchup, once i'm close it gets even worse. I'm scared of random neutral jumping RH because of the damn knees. If i evr block just one jumping RH sagat can just jump over and over and there's not much i can do. At that point i'm trapped in blocksun so jumping moves don't come out fast enough to stop him, her normals just loose and i don't have charge for upkicks. It's friggin horrible. I'm sure there's something to stop that but i haven't found it.
  • chun_li1chun_li1 Joined: Posts: 147
    Thanks. I tried getting close but that's the whole flaw of the matchup, once i'm close it gets even worse. I'm scared of random neutral jumping RH because of the damn knees. If i evr block just one jumping RH sagat can just jump over and over and there's not much i can do. At that point i'm trapped in blocksun so jumping moves don't come out fast enough to stop him, her normals just loose and i don't have charge for upkicks. It's friggin horrible. I'm sure there's something to stop that but i haven't found it.


    Close forward (if his rejump is done from close). Has a high hitting hitbox.


    In case it gets stuffed, go for Sacrifice throw. Chances are he is doing the j. RH early in first place to prevent you from airthrow, jump attack/away.
    So in case he stuffs your close forward (if you did it early enough), his jump in wont combo and you can throw him.

    Hope that helps


    chun_li1


    PS. If sagats like to jump up RH a lot, see how he does it, does he jump and do RH at peak/while going up of jump or on the way down? If hes doing it very early, crouch RH/forward it (j.Rh would whiff if you crouched in advance)

    If hes doing it late, on the way down, you have a little time to jump up RH, airthrow, etc him, depending where you are.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Unrelated, but has anyone noticed how it looks like chun has..something..on her face when she loses? I mean, I know it's tears but..yeah.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    (long post) i approach the sagat fight from a different angle:

    get meter with as little sacrifice to life as possible, then advance and threaten with the super

    the building meter part involves you doing special moves and avoiding fireballs while sagat slowly backs you into the corner

    jumping at fullscreen isn't advised, because the mix up for sagat at that point isn't fireball or dp, it's fireball or walk forward. walking forward both puts him in range for a dp if you jump (since chun's jump is so huge), and lets sagat get you farther into the corner

    so on your end, you just want to throw fireballs for the most part. the problem is, you cant keep up with sagat doing repeated roundhouse tiger shots. you have two options here, throw a fireball to nullify one, then either:

    a) block and take a little chip, then throw another fireball, or
    b) jump back over the fireball, then throw another fireball when you land

    (you could also air sbk backwards over a low tiger. it's pretty good actually)

    it would seem like jumping is always the best option here, but sagat can counter that with a slow tiger shot. you'll take full damage from landing on it and sagat gets to throw a fast tiger that you have to block.

    however, if you block and sagat throws a slow tiger, then you can just throw a fireball to nullify that one on reaction

    so basically, throw fireballs, pay attention to sagat's fireball speeds. block most of the time when unsure, jump back when you're absolutely sure he's going to throw a fast fireball

    if you've built a full meter and have lost less than 25% life then you're in pretty good shape. if you've lost a good deal more than that, then you almost definitely did too many bad guesses with your jumps. block more

    once you have meter, the focus then changes to getting within midrange while still having the super stored

    this is the tricky part. if you're really good at doing stuff while still keeping the stored super, then you can get in relatively safely by jumping straight up over fireballs and walking forward (watch out for slow fireballs)

    jumping straight up randomly gets countered by sagat doing anti-air low tiger on reaction though, so be careful with that. getting knocked down puts you all the way across the screen all over again

    if you're not good at storing the super while slowly advancing forward, your main options are:

    1) read a fireball and jump forward, while storing super
    2) try and get away with a spinning bird kick while storing super
    3) establish midrange with straight up jumps, walking forward and df+roundhouse, then start storing the super

    the pros and cons of jumping at sagat are obvious. be ready to lose 25% of your life (plus chip damage on waking up)

    if you manage to land from a spinning bird kick, the entire time chun is flipping back up is invincible. if sagat does anything to try to push you away during that time you can just super him right when you get out of the sbk

    slowly getting in range, then storing the super is generally the most consistent way. get to about halfscreen distance, start charging. block a fireball probably, then throw a jab fireball and start storing. if sagat throws another fireball you can walk forward super him. if not, you can start bullying sagat with the threat of the stored super

    unfortunately, sagat can now tech throws, and if he has super he doesn't even need to walk forward to anti-air you from full screen. chun's super also went from nearly insta-win to 45%ish. on the bright side, sagat no longer has standing short -> low tiger to push you out when close

    still, though. sagat has a big advantage in the fight until you get meter. trying to bring the fight to sagat without meter is usually a losing proposition
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Buk, excellent post. I do have a quick q though. What about SBKing over fireballs going forward? I've done this to some 'Gat players a couple of times now with some success. Obviously you have to be within range, but the SBK has pretty decent range anyway.

    Am I just playing garbage players?
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    Wow great suggestions guys, thanks. Haven't played a single sagat with chun since tho lol.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    if you go over a fireball (as opposed to going through it), then you should get a free hit. otherwise, they should be able to dp you unless you're at the very tip of the sbk's range. they possibly can still punch you or something though
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks very much Buk.
  • GonzalesGonzales Half Crazy Joined: Posts: 465
    i dont know what it is about HD but i keep having a lot of trouble anti-airing some normals, like Shoto J.RH and their J.Shorts they beat all her normals and they eat upkicks alive its really irritating controlling the whole macth guessing wrong once they get in and start to jump around and force me to block and just trow me to death.I never had that problem in ST it was easier to smack people out of the air when they jumped impatiently. In HD i have to be afraid of some jump-ins, it could be my laggy connection or something because it seems weird that i would have that problem in HD and not in ST.
    ST-Guile
    TMNT Tournament Fighters- Armaggonz
    SF4-Dictator
    "You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I know I'm a little late on this but skankin garbage - i really feel hawk vs chun is in hawks favor (i know in a lot of threads i make it sound like hawk is a lot better than he is but people really underestimate him. i cant count the times ive played solid players online who when they lose a round or two they're always like oh man i underestimated you cause you picked t.hawk)
    if hawk jumps in from the right angle j.jab beats st.mk and splash (if its o.hawks, i havent messed with it too much cause i thought it was N.Hawks) wrecks chun all day. i cant get into it too much right now cause ive got a math final soon but id love to play you and see if you can give hawk a hard time with your chun.
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    I'll add you, but it might be quite a while - I'm trying to restrict myself from playing very frequently, because it's the last week of classes and I have a LOT of shit due this week, not to mention finals coming up...

    Anyhow, if this helps, I can tell you that the sweet spot for Chun in this match is just a little outside the max distance of the first hit of Hawk's sweep. This way, Hawk can't score any knockdowns on you easily. If Chun freaks out on C.Mk, all DPs will whiff, and you can stop doing C.Mk on reaction to his foot sweep and block the second hit. Also, if Hawk jumps at you, you're in a good position to AA his moves because you're very close/under him, where most of Chun's AA will beat Hawk's jump-ins clean.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • Skatan MillaSkatan Milla Firecracker Thighs Joined: Posts: 2,094
    New SBK: I hate it, basically in every stiuation where I would use SBK in ST I get royaly f-cked instead, so Chun has gotten a lot more "Don't get into this situation no matter what" than she was before (read: the low tiers in ST).

    New Lightning: The nerf on both damage and hitbox has affected my play a lot since I used to use it for zoning and it gave good payoff, now it's risky to have it out there since you're risking getting hit without them jumping. It just doesn't feel like as much of a viable choice as in ST, and the change from 5 to 3 presses doesn't affect much since now that they nerfed the damage there's just no reason not to go for c.hk/c.hp combos instead of LL.

    On the topic of AA: I agree with Skankin that in a lot of situations that her lk upkicks will either whiff/get blocked unless it's an obvious jump in. I prefer using straight up HK because it lets me be mobile and poking without having to think that I don't have an anti-air.
    Sure, in some matchups it does lose/trade in air-to-air but at the same time in those matchups I don't enjoy going into a poking match either since Blanka/T.Hawk and I know I'm forgetting some just seem to beat her at both.
    That is not to say that lk upkicks is useless as an AA, there are some situations where it's the only option you have for it like after someone jumps your lightning legs or on wakeup. Some jumpins will beat/trade with straight up hk but lose to lk upkicks.
    So I think the point we can all agree on is that Chun does not have a surefire AA like a SRK it requires the Chun to switch it up depending on the matchup.

    Another anti-air tactic I didn't see mentioned here is when they try to go for air to ground pressure you can always walk under for a free throw, maybe even s.mp, cr.hk/hp combo.

    Vs. Sagat: I usualy play it like Buktooth wrote it because guessing right or reacting right one single time with the super is really all Chun needs to win the game, after that guess has landed I resort to what Chun Li1 wrote. I can also use the same strategy if I've managed to get in and just need to close that final distance to be able to apply some pressure.
    Twitter: @TruthFaceSkatan

    Swedish Firecracker
  • CHiNeSeDrAgOnSTCHiNeSeDrAgOnST Joined: Posts: 23
    i was wondering if there are any tips on playing Chun-Li against Honda? i tend to have difficulties there for some reason....
  • GonzalesGonzales Half Crazy Joined: Posts: 465
    i keep getting owned by T-Hawks jumping jab its just as bad as it was in ST execpt now hawks can whore out dive then jumping jab after they recover since its safe, a lot of machtups have gotten really hard for chun in HD. :( I've been thinking of swicthing
    ST-Guile
    TMNT Tournament Fighters- Armaggonz
    SF4-Dictator
    "You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
  • Skatan MillaSkatan Milla Firecracker Thighs Joined: Posts: 2,094
    Is it possible to do air sbk reversal?
    i.e. someone does deep jump in on oki I can do reversal air sbk?
    Twitter: @TruthFaceSkatan

    Swedish Firecracker
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    It can possibly evade the attack, but it won't actually hit your opponent, if that's what you want to happen. Best use for SBK: Reversal against crossups. You might still take some damage that way (your opponent might land and throw a fireball or something), but it's way better than having to 50/50 guess on a crossup which will not only lead to a damaging combo, but likely set you up for the crossup again.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • Skatan MillaSkatan Milla Firecracker Thighs Joined: Posts: 2,094
    But if I have to eat a fireball or something then then it might just be prolonging my death in some cases, which sucks.
    That's why I want air SBK to be able to get out of there if it's basically the same as ST, but maybe it recovers slower than ST SBK?

    --

    Akuma:
    c.mk, mk tatsu
    cl.hp, mk tatsu
    c.mk, hp srk
    cl.hp, hp srk
    c.mp, mk tatsu
    + more

    Basically, I could only get jab to combo into mk tatsu so Chun won't have to eat his max damage combos -I think-. However, this doesn't change the fact that she will get raped for free by crossover air hado on wakeup.
    Also, I think that if Akuma does a 3-hit combo ending with hp hado it seems Chun has to block qcb+hp hado on wakeup, that sucks.
    Twitter: @TruthFaceSkatan

    Swedish Firecracker
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    But if I have to eat a fireball or something then then it might just be prolonging my death in some cases, which sucks.
    That's why I want air SBK to be able to get out of there if it's basically the same as ST, but maybe it recovers slower than ST SBK?

    Nah, I'm sure the recovery, if anything, is faster. The main problem with the new SBK (aside from the fact that, in my opinion, it's not really good for anything new) is that the startup is faster, meaning the invulnerability window is much smaller. And, sure, you're prolonging your death, I suppose...I like to think of it more like "You're avoiding an even worse situation" but there are definitely times when I don't use it.

    ---

    Maybe I'm just the last person to figure this out, but I figured how the new super reduces damage, cos it isn't actually by lessening the damage of each hit - or at least, that's not the ONLY factor.

    So, the super is looks like two dashing kicks followed by some lightning kicks, right? The original super is six hits long, but for the most part, you get five hits in STHD. Also, you can only tag on one hit of the Upkicks afterward at most - sometimes, you can't hit them with any at all. What gives?

    All the hitboxes are actually still there, and it doesn't LOOK like any of them have changed. The real difference lies in when your opponent leaves the ground. in ST, your opponent was grounded until the very last hit. In STHD, all the lightning kicks (everything past the first two attacks) causes your opponent to leave the ground, so all the last hits are actually juggling, it seems.

    For this reason, almost the entire cast flies too high to be hit by the last hit. Some characters, like Guile, Sagat, and Fei-Long (maybe more, can't remember) will only take FOUR hits at certain ranges. The only person who still eats the entire super is - ironically - Chun-Li.

    This new property to the super also clearly explains how the Upkick juggle doesn't work, while not weakening the move at all: By the time you can do the Upkicks, your opponent is much higher off the ground than they were in ST. In the case of using the super against Chun herself, the fact that she gets hit by all six hits has her launched so high that it's impossible to land any Upkicks afterwards.

    So, yeah. Maybe this isn't new information, but it's worth writing down somewhere.
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

    "Jesus would be MAD if he had to fight Ivan Ooze."
    "*I'd* be mad if Jesus had to fight Ivan Ooze.
  • Skatan MillaSkatan Milla Firecracker Thighs Joined: Posts: 2,094
    Super chart:

    Upkicks connects -
    Akuma
    Cammy
    Dee Jay
    Dhalsim
    Dictator
    Guile
    Fei Long
    Ken
    Ryu
    T.Hawk

    Upkicks whiff:
    Blanka
    Boxer
    Chun Li
    (super is 6 hits)
    Claw
    Honda
    Sagat
    Zangief


    I don't know if others have noticed but it seems that comboing into super seems to lower the damage reduction off of it.
    Twitter: @TruthFaceSkatan

    Swedish Firecracker
  • Carbunkle FluxCarbunkle Flux Joined: Posts: 748
    Any tips on a Chun mirror match? I fought my first good Chun last night and I literally could not touch her. Well, okay- I could; but nowhere near enough to win the match. Pokes and free-throws and jump-ins.

    The most I figured out is that I can punch a close jump in just by walking underneath and throwing her on landing. But she caught on to that.
    PSN: CarbunkleFlux
  • TVGTVG Joined: Posts: 376
    I know the complaining about the nerf will get old eventually, but who agrees that chun is just plain much less fun to play now?

    I don't even see the reason for the nerfs, bison was in a kinda comparable tier (if you don't count the japanese tier lists because they always rate from virtual potential, not actual power, i've seen that in many games now and i don't like looking at j-tier lists much anymore) and he got nothing but buffs.
    Yeah i'm kinda sad now, i don't know who my main is anymore.
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