720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • B.L. PanchoB.L. Pancho Resilient Defeatist. Joined: Posts: 877
    what are some strats against cammy? she corners me with her strings and when i try to reversal 360 i get cannon spiked


    Hawk is nutoriously weak to cannon spike on block, so there's not a lot he can do about it if he blocks it. One solution I like is to not stand right at the max range of cannon spike and jump back > Hawk Dive in anticipation (sometimes you can see they did it and get a free one on reaction). It worked like a charm for me. Once they start getting wise you can jump up or back and do nothing. Cannon Drills = free 360 as someone stated so it's not to much of a factor. Normal to normal Im not sure what beats what though so you will probably have to ask someone else.

    gridman: Thx for the advice man. By the time I read your post I had already owned Scizzors kicks with 360s, not hard at all. It was really about an erroneous perception I had about how the move (Scizzors Kick) worked.
    "Hope, the quintessential human delusion that is simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness" - The Architect, The Matrix Reloaded

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  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Here's 3 things to learn and remember to easily get round Hawk's super command bugs:

    1) Always do this command for super: 2 half circle downwards from forward to back then forward + P. (That's 2 different commands to learn.)
    2) When ticking into super from a jump-in, always start from holding back position, even if you're not safe jumping - it'll get you into the right habit for safe jump-ins into super.
    3) Always do crouching ticks into super from holding down-back position.

    The best bet would be ending the SUPER by holding b + release punch buttons of choice, since his SUPER luckily still doesn't have a whiff animation.
    J.jab hold strong and fierce -> hcf,hcf, b + fierce~strong

    I'm having trouble doing j.jab, st.jab hold strong fierce, hcf, hcf, b + release fierce~strong. Gotta practice I guess.
  • inthestointhesto Guilty what? Joined: Posts: 151
    How useful is the crossup splash, s.mk, fierce DP?

    That shit does as much damage as super on crouchers and has a good chance for full stun. Follow it up with a 360 and that's 95% right there.

    Dunno how easy it is to land in a real match, though.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    How useful is the crossup splash, s.mk, fierce DP?

    That shit does as much damage as super on crouchers and has a good chance for full stun. Follow it up with a 360 and that's 95% right there.

    Dunno how easy it is to land in a real match, though.

    substitute the cr. lk for s. mk and a dizzy is practically guaranteed. Probably even a better chance in HDR since the fierce dp's 2nd hit would often whiff against certain chars in vanilla ST.
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  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    ^ Try substituting the s.mk for standing short.

    Standing short almost does as much damage as standing medium kick. It also helps you get the two hits of the DP.

    Dizzies a lot. Good setup is roundhouse elbow bash throw, then hold up-towards to get the jump-in.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm having an issue with Typhoon whiffs. It seems that on certain characters (I noticed Blanka and Ken tonight) even though I'm in range after xup d fierce -> d jab x 2 the Typhoon will whiff. I know I'm in range because my hand in the whiff animation is almost above their head (they are ducking of course).

    Is this just a limitation to Hawk's Typhoon or am I doing something wrong here?
  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    I'm having an issue with Typhoon whiffs. It seems that on certain characters (I noticed Blanka and Ken tonight) even though I'm in range after xup d fierce -> d jab x 2 the Typhoon will whiff. I know I'm in range because my hand in the whiff animation is almost above their head (they are ducking of course).

    Is this just a limitation to Hawk's Typhoon or am I doing something wrong here?

    This happens to me too. I think we may be doing it while the opponent is still in hitstun.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    I find it harder to do his typhoon after ticks consistently, since I use multiple buttons when I negative edge. Sometimes I end up like you guys, doing a whiff animation point blank. Also I've got a hard time toning down my typhoon attempts, since I attempt it whenever I whiff something in ST, like jab rising hawk whiffs then fierce~strong, 360, end in d/b + release fierce~strong. Now I just end up getting slapped in the face ;___;
  • BronzefistBronzefist Spews random garbage Joined: Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm having an issue with Typhoon whiffs. It seems that on certain characters (I noticed Blanka and Ken tonight) even though I'm in range after xup d fierce -> d jab x 2 the Typhoon will whiff. I know I'm in range because my hand in the whiff animation is almost above their head (they are ducking of course).

    Is this just a limitation to Hawk's Typhoon or am I doing something wrong here?


    Omg I'm having this EXACT same issue, even though I'm within range. The characters will simply duck and my typhoon will whiff over them. It happens to me frequently after crossing up with d+fierce and doing the typhoon afterwards.

    Anyone have any tips on fighting Honda and Blanka? They are my hardest matches so far. I'm an ST noob, so I dunno their relative weaknesses. Honda's headbutt is killing me and he seems to build super meter VERY quickly (faster than any other character I fight) and I end up worrying about eating his super. The jab headbutt is stuffing my air attacks. HHS is doing crazy chip damage. Ughhh I hate this match. Blanka is not as difficult for me, but it's still a tough match. Turtling Blankas in particular give me the most trouble.

    Also, how do you guys execute his typhoon after blocking attacks (standing and crouching)?
    THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FIGHT TO THE DEATH...
    MvC3: She Hulk, Thor, Hulk, Haggar lariat assist, Arthur dagger assist
    SSF4: Gen, Makoto, Adon...all at scrub level :sad:
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Also, how do you guys execute his typhoon after blocking attacks (standing and crouching)?

    I always press and hold fierce~strong and rotate from d/b, b, u/b, u, u/f, f, d/f, d, d/b + release fierce~strong an old habit from ST. However you can press fierce~strong hcf, b + release fierce~strong or the opposite with hcb, f + release fierce~strong.
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    For you guys with the typhoon whiffing it's VERY likely you're just doing it too early. Tons of moves have frame advantage after them in this game, especially after meaty attacks. If they're still in blockstun, your throw will whiff. Just try waiting a bit longer before you throw.

    Although, I have had one instance where I thought I had blatantly whiffed a 360 for no good reason. It was against Guile.. but, I'm probably just imagining things. (I hope)

    Anyone have any tips against Akuma? I actually think Hawk has decent tools against the other shotos, but the dark hadou might simply be too strong.

    Midscreen fireballs and stuff, I can deal with. Hawk should be always able to get into sweep range against the shotos. But the air fireballs are not fun! DPing through those air FBs is a pain in the ass, but even a trade is way way in my favour if I can get one. Blocking them is not something I want to do if I can help it. The last thing I need is Akuma up in my face with the advantage. I thought crossup hurricane from ryu was annoying after knockdown, but this air fireballs business sucks and Akuma's hurricanes juggle to boot..

    If he uses Hurricane to escape a throw it's not like the other shotos where you get hurt. With Akuma you get HURT. (and wake up into an air fireball/crossup hurricane into shenanigans)

    He can use ANY special to get out of Hawk's ticks. Pick one, it will work.

    Demon also is an issue, as you HAVE to get in close, and if he catches you hitting a button, he's got you. It's not all that dominating or anything, but it will counter all ticks, and it sucks that when I finally get in I am hesitant to hit a button if he has meter. The other shotos don't have the option of sliding through ALL of my attacks and throwing me when I get in close.

    Also, can you throw his teleport? It has a hitbox right? I'm guessing it can't be thrown though.. :(
  • BronzefistBronzefist Spews random garbage Joined: Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thanks for the Typhoon tips. Can T.Hawk use the Typhoon as a reversal when someone is sticking out meaty attacks? I tried using his DP as a reversal instead and I can NEVER get it to work. It's possible that my timing sucks, but I'd like to know if the Typhoon can work instead. I've completely give up on Honda vs T.Hawk...just impossible for me.
    THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FIGHT TO THE DEATH...
    MvC3: She Hulk, Thor, Hulk, Haggar lariat assist, Arthur dagger assist
    SSF4: Gen, Makoto, Adon...all at scrub level :sad:
  • deadontime101deadontime101 THIS GAME IS OVER!!! Joined: Posts: 525
    Yeah you can Typhoon as a reversal

    as for what Nos is saying...I'm 100% with you on that. I've tried to get out of the wake up shenanigans but to no avail, the lesson here...don't get knocked down. So is there any clue as to what to do in this fight or are we completely dependent on an Akuma player being stupid to win this?
    "DOOM rules everything around me, D.R.E.A.M! Get the money, dollar dollar bill y'all.''
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    blanka is a pain in the ass

    electricity is too good vs hawk and the only move that i know that beats electricity is his elbow drop (d+mp) in the air
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • SwmmrManShenSwmmrManShen The Left Ventricle Joined: Posts: 573
    you can just sweep electricity right?
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    you can just sweep electricity right?

    You can just *anything* electricity. It has horrible hit-boxes except above Blanka's body. Any time you're on the ground it's a free whatever you want. There's pretty much no move in the game that won't hit electricity clean on the ground from max distance. Maybe Blanka's low sliding fierce.

    I'm not seeing the awesome new T. Hawk. The new motions only help if you were bad at the old motions - the new 360 motion only helps bad players. Ability to do walk-up 720 is nice but realistically most of the time you are getting a 720 after you force them to block, after you block, on wakeup, etc. I love the part of Sirlin's blog where he says that standing 360 used to be really hard to do - really? I'm using a xbox pad and it's easier for me than a fireball. (Pro-tip: press jab before you get to the up part of the motion)

    The problem I'm having is that none of his harder matchups have not gotten easier and perhaps have gotten harder with the addition of the whiff 360. In particular characters like Cammy, Chun and Vega. The dive changes are nearly irrelevant against these characters and the whiff animation hurts against characters who dance in and out of range. If you are trying to 360 between poke strings instead of getting a low jab or a low block if you're too far instead you get a whiff that really throws off your rythm. I think Cammy's new drill may be safe at some ranges though I'm not 100% certain.

    In general the whiff makes it a lot harder to get random throws off blocks or at max distance, especially against characters who throw out moves that get them off the ground.

    I'd be curious to hear how other people are faring against chars like Chun and Cammy.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    wow why would you ever sweep electricity? free walk up 360.

    chun is a joke. such an easy matchup. dp beats everything she has clean. walk up meaty cl.forward x 360 gg. jump jab kills her upkicks and everything else. one knockdown match is over. you can 360/720 her on hit / out of SBK lol.

    cammy is 50/50. she can spam cannon spike all day but who cares. one knockdown and gl to cammy. once shes in the corner she has nothing. cr.jab and f/b.jab stuffs drills. cr.forward punishes poorly spaced drills. dp that shitty hooligan and dont lose to scrubs spamming her dp.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    bad news fellow hawks. his old dp bug is still there. basically, whatever strength dp you do last will come out if you do a reversal dp, regardless of what button you hit for the reversal.

    it just happened for me vs a sim player

    i missed his dizzy combo and whiffed the fierce dp. little bit later in the same round i was in the corner and did reversal dp and i HIT JAB and fierce dp still came out.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    For you guys with the typhoon whiffing it's VERY likely you're just doing it too early. Tons of moves have frame advantage after them in this game, especially after meaty attacks. If they're still in blockstun, your throw will whiff. Just try waiting a bit longer before you throw.

    Thanks for the advice! Tonight I tried not doing the piano method and instead just going with one button. Seems the extra split second helped as 90% of the time I got the Typhoon.

    Playing Hawk is so addicting. Walk up 360s are my new favorite thing. :lovin:

    Scott
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Two random tidbits:

    1: Hawk's fierce rising hawk does hella damage.

    2: I was able to replicate juggling people with the fierce rising hawk in the non-normal way. If you hit someone in the air close to the corner you land before they do and can tack on a second hit by doing another fierce rising hawk. The easiest way to see this is to pick Dictator in training mode and have him jump about one character width away from a corner. Try to hit him at the very top of his arc, almost as if he is landing on your head rather than you plowing into him.

    Probably not very useful but interesting nonetheless.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I just stumbled across ultradavid's post about the glitched (?) new 720 motion and I thought I'd give it a try tonight.

    Wow.

    Basically just doing two half circles back and then hitting up back is too good. Much easier than having to hit forward. I don't think it makes Hawk drastically better but with a full super meter he's even more dangerous to make a mistake against...

    So much fun!

    Scott
  • IcegeIcege Scott f'n Summers Joined: Posts: 2,327
    Having difficulty vs. Dictator, Claw, and Honda. Dictator primarily just running away the whole match and as soon as I get close jumping over me to safety unless I psychic DP him. Claw isn't too bad. I started c.hp wall dives and seemed to have pretty good success.

    I hate me some Honda
    Rest in Peace Kevin "Gohan" Craft
    March 2, 1986 - April 7, 2010
    "Dude yea"
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    honda is a pain in the ass. the only thing i can think of is psychic dp/dp on reaction to his headbutts and HHS and psychic dp when he tries to counter throw you. its a losing battle but if you scare him with enough psychic dps, you can get some storm hammers and crossups in and win.

    bison. corner him and he can't do much about your splash (j. d+hp). his throw range is pretty big so watch out for that if you're going for ticks into storm hammer.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    bison cant do much about j.jab. j.jab 360. or wait for him to be stupid and scissor or space a PC bad and reversal 360.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    bison cant do much about j.jab. j.jab 360. or wait for him to be stupid and scissor or space a PC bad and reversal 360.

    Much to the dismay of T.Hawk players, I'll give away Bison's secret. Low Forward beats Hawk's Jumping Jab. He lands in it, and Bison, if timed well, can even Combo Stand Roundhouse off of it, since you can make it act like a Meaty.

    Of course, then Hawk can change to Down + Splash to nail the Low Forward, but as Sirlin showed me, a well timed Crouch Fierce or Stand Jab beats Hawk's splash... but not Hawk's J.Jab!

    Mind games... BEGIN!

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    woah woah woah, you must be playing some REALLY bad hawks to be jumping in from that far that youll land on his cr.mk. holy jesus. only time i jump in against bison or chun is if its going to hit his head.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    woah woah woah, you must be playing some REALLY bad hawks to be jumping in from that far that youll land on his cr.mk. holy jesus. only time i jump in against bison or chun is if its going to hit his head.

    If you don't believe me, try it for yourself. Doesn't have to be far away at all. I'm pretty sure it still works if you are on top of Bison.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 513 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Actually a Hawk that knows how to play against Bison will never jump from far, Bison wins with just a meaty low foward into anything (another low forward-scissors combo, standing short-rh combo). the only place T.Hawk should be jumping is from close range or against a cornered Bison.

    Never jump with Jab beyond the corner against Bison, jump with either a well timed fierce, down+fierce or just short which beats any low attack. Also take note that the Dive works wonders here in HD Remix, the match is somewhat reversed to Hawk's favor now if he gets in with a dive.

    Aside note, after switching on hit boxes I noticed that O.Hawk/R.Hawk has a really big box on his jumping strong (not elbow). When I tried it to my shock it was as good as Cammy's from OG ST if not better priority, not only that but you can also cross-up with it !!
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Actually a Hawk that knows how to play against Bison will never jump from far, Bison wins with just a meaty low foward into anything (another low forward-scissors combo, standing short-rh combo). the only place T.Hawk should be jumping is from close range or against a cornered Bison.

    Never jump with Jab beyond the corner against Bison, jump with either a well timed fierce, down+fierce or just short which beats any low attack. Also take note that the Dive works wonders here in HD Remix, the match is somewhat reversed to Hawk's favor now if he gets in with a dive.

    Aside note, after switching on hit boxes I noticed that O.Hawk/R.Hawk has a really big box on his jumping strong (not elbow). When I tried it to my shock it was as good as Cammy's from OG ST if not better priority, not only that but you can also cross-up with it !!

    The first two paragraphs are exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah you can Xup with jab too hahah. problem with jump strong is that it doenst stay out long
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Radpid-fire low jab stuffs Honda's headbutts.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I played Gief today and had a little bit of a rough time.

    What would you suggest against KKK lariats? Seems that timing has to be pretty good to counter legs otherwise he can easily use a piledriver to punish.
  • GonzalesGonzales Half Crazy Joined: Posts: 465
    lol who would have trouble beating Chun as T-Hawk. All you need to do is make her block a hawk dive then just use j.jab you win :(
    ST-Guile
    TMNT Tournament Fighters- Armaggonz
    SF4-Dictator
    "You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    lol who would have trouble beating Chun as T-Hawk. All you need to do is make her block a hawk dive then just use j.jab you win :(

    You can Crouch Block the Hawk Dive. Which leaves you still charged. And Chun Li's Short Razor Kick beats T.Hawk's J.Jab. So it's not QUITE as easy as you say it is.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    I played Gief today and had a little bit of a rough time.

    What would you suggest against KKK lariats? Seems that timing has to be pretty good to counter legs otherwise he can easily use a piledriver to punish.

    Against Gief you really have to mix it up. I tend to use a fair amount of low roundhouse, jumping straight up roundhouse, an occasional stand rh (but this can be lariated pretty easily so watch out), a decent amount of jumping around outside of range of any attack, etc. The second hit of low roundhouse has pretty good range, you have to learn both the range and the timing on it. It seems to go farther than Gief's low roundhouse and someone using the kick lariat to go through and throw is not something that's ever happened to me I don't think.

    This match actually feels pretty similar to playing against Gief as Blanka in that if you mix it up you're in good shape and can really frustrate him. Hawk's jumping straight up roundhouse has tremendous range and doesn't get beaten air to air very often.

    That said I don't have a good handle on this match. One thing I do know is that the dive is pretty friggin worthless unless you need one last hit.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Actually a Hawk that knows how to play against Bison will never jump from far, Bison wins with just a meaty low foward into anything (another low forward-scissors combo, standing short-rh combo). the only place T.Hawk should be jumping is from close range or against a cornered Bison.

    So I tested it out, and it's interesting. Basically, T.Hawk's Jump Jab CANNOT HIT a Crouching Bison. That's why the Bison Low Forward works. There is no distance in which Hawk's Jump Jab will hit a Crouching Bison. However, EVERY OTHER MOVE hits him, which is why if Bison tries to counter with a Low Forward, he can get REALLY mopped up. But, yes, a Low Forward is 100% guaranteed anti-air to Hawk's Jumping Jab.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    So I tested it out, and it's interesting. Basically, T.Hawk's Jump Jab CANNOT HIT a Crouching Bison. That's why the Bison Low Forward works. There is no distance in which Hawk's Jump Jab will hit a Crouching Bison. However, EVERY OTHER MOVE hits him, which is why if Bison tries to counter with a Low Forward, he can get REALLY mopped up. But, yes, a Low Forward is 100% guaranteed anti-air to Hawk's Jumping Jab.

    - James

    Im gonna have to try this out later. Seems really interesting. Thanks for letting me know. If bison keeps doing it then do the tactic that gets EVERYONE AT LEAST once and early whiff j.hk land 360 :D
  • GonzalesGonzales Half Crazy Joined: Posts: 465
    You can Crouch Block the Hawk Dive. Which leaves you still charged. And Chun Li's Short Razor Kick beats T.Hawk's J.Jab. So it's not QUITE as easy as you say it is.

    - James

    what i mean to say that its really hard to do that because you have to wait till j.jab is about to hit you for the short upkicks to beat it. Its too stric to be able to do consistently especially online i've lost to a lot of T-Haws who kept whoring j.jab out because the reward is well worth the risk. Even in St tourney's i've always had a hard time with that macthup but in ST:HD it seems harder
    ST-Guile
    TMNT Tournament Fighters- Armaggonz
    SF4-Dictator
    "You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    Gotta say, I think the new 360 motions might be too easy. :P

    You can start and down-back, or down-towards, and do a half-circle and punch and get the 360. (down-back, curl to up-towards+punch for example). That's a half circle. Half 360. lol.

    Hell, tap down-back, towards, then back + punch really quickly and you can get 360s. (I think you have to go to neutral down too, but you know what I mean)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    what i mean to say that its really hard to do that because you have to wait till j.jab is about to hit you for the short upkicks to beat it. Its too stric to be able to do consistently especially online i've lost to a lot of T-Haws who kept whoring j.jab out because the reward is well worth the risk. Even in St tourney's i've always had a hard time with that macthup but in ST:HD it seems harder


    Seriously. Hawks jab kills her upkicks like EVERY time unless you do it at the latest point possible and with the heavy startup on upkicks, good luck doing it every time.

    I just played against a solid chun (and player) and the first and last round were just brutal. She still cant do nearly anything about [now old] hawks splash. What I know beats it is jump straight up lk, which works only if hawk is jumping from far and not on top of her, and a lucky air throw (and i stress lucky). If someone can tell me what else can beat his splash id love to know, just for curiosity sakes. As far as i know, once hawk is on top of her with his splash, its gonna tkae a huge mistake for hawk to lose.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Played a decent Honda tonight and it wasn't fun.

    Spamming HHS after a knockdown or a jumping roundhouse (which often beat or traded with my Rising Hawk) seemed to work wonders in the chip damage department.

    And much to my dismay, I found that even when my low strong and low forward pokes hit he was able to retaliate with the HHS for a free hit. :amazed:

    KM
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