720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,651
    For you guys with the typhoon whiffing it's VERY likely you're just doing it too early. Tons of moves have frame advantage after them in this game, especially after meaty attacks. If they're still in blockstun, your throw will whiff. Just try waiting a bit longer before you throw.

    Although, I have had one instance where I thought I had blatantly whiffed a 360 for no good reason. It was against Guile.. but, I'm probably just imagining things. (I hope)

    Anyone have any tips against Akuma? I actually think Hawk has decent tools against the other shotos, but the dark hadou might simply be too strong.

    Midscreen fireballs and stuff, I can deal with. Hawk should be always able to get into sweep range against the shotos. But the air fireballs are not fun! DPing through those air FBs is a pain in the ass, but even a trade is way way in my favour if I can get one. Blocking them is not something I want to do if I can help it. The last thing I need is Akuma up in my face with the advantage. I thought crossup hurricane from ryu was annoying after knockdown, but this air fireballs business sucks and Akuma's hurricanes juggle to boot..

    If he uses Hurricane to escape a throw it's not like the other shotos where you get hurt. With Akuma you get HURT. (and wake up into an air fireball/crossup hurricane into shenanigans)

    He can use ANY special to get out of Hawk's ticks. Pick one, it will work.

    Demon also is an issue, as you HAVE to get in close, and if he catches you hitting a button, he's got you. It's not all that dominating or anything, but it will counter all ticks, and it sucks that when I finally get in I am hesitant to hit a button if he has meter. The other shotos don't have the option of sliding through ALL of my attacks and throwing me when I get in close.

    Also, can you throw his teleport? It has a hitbox right? I'm guessing it can't be thrown though.. :(
  • BronzefistBronzefist Spews random garbage Joined: Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thanks for the Typhoon tips. Can T.Hawk use the Typhoon as a reversal when someone is sticking out meaty attacks? I tried using his DP as a reversal instead and I can NEVER get it to work. It's possible that my timing sucks, but I'd like to know if the Typhoon can work instead. I've completely give up on Honda vs T.Hawk...just impossible for me.
    THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FIGHT TO THE DEATH...
    MvC3: She Hulk, Thor, Hulk, Haggar lariat assist, Arthur dagger assist
    SSF4: Gen, Makoto, Adon...all at scrub level :sad:
  • deadontime101deadontime101 THIS GAME IS OVER!!! Joined: Posts: 525
    Yeah you can Typhoon as a reversal

    as for what Nos is saying...I'm 100% with you on that. I've tried to get out of the wake up shenanigans but to no avail, the lesson here...don't get knocked down. So is there any clue as to what to do in this fight or are we completely dependent on an Akuma player being stupid to win this?
    "DOOM rules everything around me, D.R.E.A.M! Get the money, dollar dollar bill y'all.''
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    blanka is a pain in the ass

    electricity is too good vs hawk and the only move that i know that beats electricity is his elbow drop (d+mp) in the air
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • SwmmrManShenSwmmrManShen The Left Ventricle Joined: Posts: 573
    you can just sweep electricity right?
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    you can just sweep electricity right?

    You can just *anything* electricity. It has horrible hit-boxes except above Blanka's body. Any time you're on the ground it's a free whatever you want. There's pretty much no move in the game that won't hit electricity clean on the ground from max distance. Maybe Blanka's low sliding fierce.

    I'm not seeing the awesome new T. Hawk. The new motions only help if you were bad at the old motions - the new 360 motion only helps bad players. Ability to do walk-up 720 is nice but realistically most of the time you are getting a 720 after you force them to block, after you block, on wakeup, etc. I love the part of Sirlin's blog where he says that standing 360 used to be really hard to do - really? I'm using a xbox pad and it's easier for me than a fireball. (Pro-tip: press jab before you get to the up part of the motion)

    The problem I'm having is that none of his harder matchups have not gotten easier and perhaps have gotten harder with the addition of the whiff 360. In particular characters like Cammy, Chun and Vega. The dive changes are nearly irrelevant against these characters and the whiff animation hurts against characters who dance in and out of range. If you are trying to 360 between poke strings instead of getting a low jab or a low block if you're too far instead you get a whiff that really throws off your rythm. I think Cammy's new drill may be safe at some ranges though I'm not 100% certain.

    In general the whiff makes it a lot harder to get random throws off blocks or at max distance, especially against characters who throw out moves that get them off the ground.

    I'd be curious to hear how other people are faring against chars like Chun and Cammy.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    wow why would you ever sweep electricity? free walk up 360.

    chun is a joke. such an easy matchup. dp beats everything she has clean. walk up meaty cl.forward x 360 gg. jump jab kills her upkicks and everything else. one knockdown match is over. you can 360/720 her on hit / out of SBK lol.

    cammy is 50/50. she can spam cannon spike all day but who cares. one knockdown and gl to cammy. once shes in the corner she has nothing. cr.jab and f/b.jab stuffs drills. cr.forward punishes poorly spaced drills. dp that shitty hooligan and dont lose to scrubs spamming her dp.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    bad news fellow hawks. his old dp bug is still there. basically, whatever strength dp you do last will come out if you do a reversal dp, regardless of what button you hit for the reversal.

    it just happened for me vs a sim player

    i missed his dizzy combo and whiffed the fierce dp. little bit later in the same round i was in the corner and did reversal dp and i HIT JAB and fierce dp still came out.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    For you guys with the typhoon whiffing it's VERY likely you're just doing it too early. Tons of moves have frame advantage after them in this game, especially after meaty attacks. If they're still in blockstun, your throw will whiff. Just try waiting a bit longer before you throw.

    Thanks for the advice! Tonight I tried not doing the piano method and instead just going with one button. Seems the extra split second helped as 90% of the time I got the Typhoon.

    Playing Hawk is so addicting. Walk up 360s are my new favorite thing. :lovin:

    Scott
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Two random tidbits:

    1: Hawk's fierce rising hawk does hella damage.

    2: I was able to replicate juggling people with the fierce rising hawk in the non-normal way. If you hit someone in the air close to the corner you land before they do and can tack on a second hit by doing another fierce rising hawk. The easiest way to see this is to pick Dictator in training mode and have him jump about one character width away from a corner. Try to hit him at the very top of his arc, almost as if he is landing on your head rather than you plowing into him.

    Probably not very useful but interesting nonetheless.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I just stumbled across ultradavid's post about the glitched (?) new 720 motion and I thought I'd give it a try tonight.

    Wow.

    Basically just doing two half circles back and then hitting up back is too good. Much easier than having to hit forward. I don't think it makes Hawk drastically better but with a full super meter he's even more dangerous to make a mistake against...

    So much fun!

    Scott
  • IcegeIcege Scott f'n Summers Joined: Posts: 2,327
    Having difficulty vs. Dictator, Claw, and Honda. Dictator primarily just running away the whole match and as soon as I get close jumping over me to safety unless I psychic DP him. Claw isn't too bad. I started c.hp wall dives and seemed to have pretty good success.

    I hate me some Honda
    Rest in Peace Kevin "Gohan" Craft
    March 2, 1986 - April 7, 2010
    "Dude yea"
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    honda is a pain in the ass. the only thing i can think of is psychic dp/dp on reaction to his headbutts and HHS and psychic dp when he tries to counter throw you. its a losing battle but if you scare him with enough psychic dps, you can get some storm hammers and crossups in and win.

    bison. corner him and he can't do much about your splash (j. d+hp). his throw range is pretty big so watch out for that if you're going for ticks into storm hammer.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    bison cant do much about j.jab. j.jab 360. or wait for him to be stupid and scissor or space a PC bad and reversal 360.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    bison cant do much about j.jab. j.jab 360. or wait for him to be stupid and scissor or space a PC bad and reversal 360.

    Much to the dismay of T.Hawk players, I'll give away Bison's secret. Low Forward beats Hawk's Jumping Jab. He lands in it, and Bison, if timed well, can even Combo Stand Roundhouse off of it, since you can make it act like a Meaty.

    Of course, then Hawk can change to Down + Splash to nail the Low Forward, but as Sirlin showed me, a well timed Crouch Fierce or Stand Jab beats Hawk's splash... but not Hawk's J.Jab!

    Mind games... BEGIN!

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    woah woah woah, you must be playing some REALLY bad hawks to be jumping in from that far that youll land on his cr.mk. holy jesus. only time i jump in against bison or chun is if its going to hit his head.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    woah woah woah, you must be playing some REALLY bad hawks to be jumping in from that far that youll land on his cr.mk. holy jesus. only time i jump in against bison or chun is if its going to hit his head.

    If you don't believe me, try it for yourself. Doesn't have to be far away at all. I'm pretty sure it still works if you are on top of Bison.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 486 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Actually a Hawk that knows how to play against Bison will never jump from far, Bison wins with just a meaty low foward into anything (another low forward-scissors combo, standing short-rh combo). the only place T.Hawk should be jumping is from close range or against a cornered Bison.

    Never jump with Jab beyond the corner against Bison, jump with either a well timed fierce, down+fierce or just short which beats any low attack. Also take note that the Dive works wonders here in HD Remix, the match is somewhat reversed to Hawk's favor now if he gets in with a dive.

    Aside note, after switching on hit boxes I noticed that O.Hawk/R.Hawk has a really big box on his jumping strong (not elbow). When I tried it to my shock it was as good as Cammy's from OG ST if not better priority, not only that but you can also cross-up with it !!
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Actually a Hawk that knows how to play against Bison will never jump from far, Bison wins with just a meaty low foward into anything (another low forward-scissors combo, standing short-rh combo). the only place T.Hawk should be jumping is from close range or against a cornered Bison.

    Never jump with Jab beyond the corner against Bison, jump with either a well timed fierce, down+fierce or just short which beats any low attack. Also take note that the Dive works wonders here in HD Remix, the match is somewhat reversed to Hawk's favor now if he gets in with a dive.

    Aside note, after switching on hit boxes I noticed that O.Hawk/R.Hawk has a really big box on his jumping strong (not elbow). When I tried it to my shock it was as good as Cammy's from OG ST if not better priority, not only that but you can also cross-up with it !!

    The first two paragraphs are exactly what I was thinking.

    Yeah you can Xup with jab too hahah. problem with jump strong is that it doenst stay out long
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Radpid-fire low jab stuffs Honda's headbutts.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I played Gief today and had a little bit of a rough time.

    What would you suggest against KKK lariats? Seems that timing has to be pretty good to counter legs otherwise he can easily use a piledriver to punish.
  • GonzalesGonzales Half Crazy Joined: Posts: 465
    lol who would have trouble beating Chun as T-Hawk. All you need to do is make her block a hawk dive then just use j.jab you win :(
    ST-Guile
    TMNT Tournament Fighters- Armaggonz
    SF4-Dictator
    "You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    lol who would have trouble beating Chun as T-Hawk. All you need to do is make her block a hawk dive then just use j.jab you win :(

    You can Crouch Block the Hawk Dive. Which leaves you still charged. And Chun Li's Short Razor Kick beats T.Hawk's J.Jab. So it's not QUITE as easy as you say it is.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    I played Gief today and had a little bit of a rough time.

    What would you suggest against KKK lariats? Seems that timing has to be pretty good to counter legs otherwise he can easily use a piledriver to punish.

    Against Gief you really have to mix it up. I tend to use a fair amount of low roundhouse, jumping straight up roundhouse, an occasional stand rh (but this can be lariated pretty easily so watch out), a decent amount of jumping around outside of range of any attack, etc. The second hit of low roundhouse has pretty good range, you have to learn both the range and the timing on it. It seems to go farther than Gief's low roundhouse and someone using the kick lariat to go through and throw is not something that's ever happened to me I don't think.

    This match actually feels pretty similar to playing against Gief as Blanka in that if you mix it up you're in good shape and can really frustrate him. Hawk's jumping straight up roundhouse has tremendous range and doesn't get beaten air to air very often.

    That said I don't have a good handle on this match. One thing I do know is that the dive is pretty friggin worthless unless you need one last hit.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Actually a Hawk that knows how to play against Bison will never jump from far, Bison wins with just a meaty low foward into anything (another low forward-scissors combo, standing short-rh combo). the only place T.Hawk should be jumping is from close range or against a cornered Bison.

    So I tested it out, and it's interesting. Basically, T.Hawk's Jump Jab CANNOT HIT a Crouching Bison. That's why the Bison Low Forward works. There is no distance in which Hawk's Jump Jab will hit a Crouching Bison. However, EVERY OTHER MOVE hits him, which is why if Bison tries to counter with a Low Forward, he can get REALLY mopped up. But, yes, a Low Forward is 100% guaranteed anti-air to Hawk's Jumping Jab.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    So I tested it out, and it's interesting. Basically, T.Hawk's Jump Jab CANNOT HIT a Crouching Bison. That's why the Bison Low Forward works. There is no distance in which Hawk's Jump Jab will hit a Crouching Bison. However, EVERY OTHER MOVE hits him, which is why if Bison tries to counter with a Low Forward, he can get REALLY mopped up. But, yes, a Low Forward is 100% guaranteed anti-air to Hawk's Jumping Jab.

    - James

    Im gonna have to try this out later. Seems really interesting. Thanks for letting me know. If bison keeps doing it then do the tactic that gets EVERYONE AT LEAST once and early whiff j.hk land 360 :D
  • GonzalesGonzales Half Crazy Joined: Posts: 465
    You can Crouch Block the Hawk Dive. Which leaves you still charged. And Chun Li's Short Razor Kick beats T.Hawk's J.Jab. So it's not QUITE as easy as you say it is.

    - James

    what i mean to say that its really hard to do that because you have to wait till j.jab is about to hit you for the short upkicks to beat it. Its too stric to be able to do consistently especially online i've lost to a lot of T-Haws who kept whoring j.jab out because the reward is well worth the risk. Even in St tourney's i've always had a hard time with that macthup but in ST:HD it seems harder
    ST-Guile
    TMNT Tournament Fighters- Armaggonz
    SF4-Dictator
    "You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,651
    Gotta say, I think the new 360 motions might be too easy. :P

    You can start and down-back, or down-towards, and do a half-circle and punch and get the 360. (down-back, curl to up-towards+punch for example). That's a half circle. Half 360. lol.

    Hell, tap down-back, towards, then back + punch really quickly and you can get 360s. (I think you have to go to neutral down too, but you know what I mean)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    what i mean to say that its really hard to do that because you have to wait till j.jab is about to hit you for the short upkicks to beat it. Its too stric to be able to do consistently especially online i've lost to a lot of T-Haws who kept whoring j.jab out because the reward is well worth the risk. Even in St tourney's i've always had a hard time with that macthup but in ST:HD it seems harder


    Seriously. Hawks jab kills her upkicks like EVERY time unless you do it at the latest point possible and with the heavy startup on upkicks, good luck doing it every time.

    I just played against a solid chun (and player) and the first and last round were just brutal. She still cant do nearly anything about [now old] hawks splash. What I know beats it is jump straight up lk, which works only if hawk is jumping from far and not on top of her, and a lucky air throw (and i stress lucky). If someone can tell me what else can beat his splash id love to know, just for curiosity sakes. As far as i know, once hawk is on top of her with his splash, its gonna tkae a huge mistake for hawk to lose.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Played a decent Honda tonight and it wasn't fun.

    Spamming HHS after a knockdown or a jumping roundhouse (which often beat or traded with my Rising Hawk) seemed to work wonders in the chip damage department.

    And much to my dismay, I found that even when my low strong and low forward pokes hit he was able to retaliate with the HHS for a free hit. :amazed:

    KM
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Honda is a frustrating matchup, and more importantly an annoying and often boring matchup.

    Remember that when you do a DP you can pause on DF for quite a while before you have to press punch. This should help you get deeper DPs and maximize the chance of getting the fierce DP to hit twice. It's especially important because Hawk is so damn tall that without pausing on DF you have to start the motion very early to avoid getting kicked in the face. You can wait literally a half second between DF and punch which allows your opponent to get lower to the ground and hopefully into the invulnerable part of the DP animation.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ya Honda hasn't changed much as far as bad matchup goes. If not the worst in vanilla, it hasn't seemed to get much better in HD.

    Really they just have to charge back and do jab headbutts to keep you at bay, and it becomes almost impossible to overcome against a good Honda player. But the Typhoon being a lot easier now has opened up a lot of in with standing 360's.

    I haven't ran into any skilled Honda players as of yet to be honest so I can't attest to the prowess of his Butt Slam, but that used to be effective against Hawk also in ST with the right set-ups. I know odd since we want them close but good Honda players used it well.

    Off Topic: Is the wiki still being used by players and not messed up by griefers? I wrote most of T.Hawks stuff on there but someone came in and constantly jumbled it to the point I gave up. Looks like someone named Decca cleaned it up though.

    If your out there good job Decca :D
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    If your out there good job Decca :D

    Thanks dude, I really appreciate it, especially from another T.Hawk player.

    Props to the guy who included the new HDR inputs. It doesn't seem like many people utilize the wiki, however I love reading about other's than Hawk.

    I really feel like the whiff animation is destroying my old T.Hawk strategy, not it was complicated at all :"keep spinnin' them 360s and release fierce~strong". Now I have to carefully guess when peeps won't reversal, which means never. Honda, Blanka and Cammy can just keep me away.

    Am I the only one still using the old d/b~360~d/b + release method? Yeah the new motion works wonders for walk-in Typhoons, but after cr.jab or cr.short it's just in my mind to spin. I can't seem to do the walk-in SUPER consistently, and
    cr.jab -> cr.jab -> safe SUPER attempt is impossible for me in HDR.

    SIDENOTE:
    From my point of view they should let us try out T.Hawk without a whiff animation, but his Typhoon should rebound much like SFZ3 Zangief's SPD, so you have to work your way in again after each succesful Typhoon.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    hawks whiff animation feels like it changes ticking. sorry. situations where you would be able to walk up 360 after a bounce back or something DONT seem to work anymore. the whiff animation seems to have really really weird properties as well. i swear i cant count the times ive seen the whiff animation come out and then all of a sudden just grab them.


    if anyone wants, i can write up some strategy (what i do) against honda and whoever else if you want
  • gkrohwongkrohwon 7XL Joined: Posts: 1,682
    However his whiff animation charges meter.

    Jab whiff recovers really fast. i think 9 or 10 jab whiffs builds to full.
    I got a present and it come with a banana clip
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  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    However his whiff animation charges meter.

    Jab whiff recovers really fast. i think 9 or 10 jab whiffs builds to full.

    It takes 10 Typhoon whiff's no matter if it's jab, strong or fierce.
  • armaganarmagan Joined: Posts: 70
    A question about new Hawk: j.jab->360 throw doesn't work sometimes. I jump in, do the 360 and Hawk does throw whiff animation, like he can't do the throw. I'm exactly next to the opponent and Hawk doesn't throw. And this is in training mode. What gives?
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Seriously. Hawks jab kills her upkicks like EVERY time unless you do it at the latest point possible and with the heavy startup on upkicks, good luck doing it every time.

    I just played against a solid chun (and player) and the first and last round were just brutal. She still cant do nearly anything about [now old] hawks splash. What I know beats it is jump straight up lk, which works only if hawk is jumping from far and not on top of her, and a lucky air throw (and i stress lucky). If someone can tell me what else can beat his splash id love to know, just for curiosity sakes. As far as i know, once hawk is on top of her with his splash, its gonna tkae a huge mistake for hawk to lose.

    I swear I'm not trying to be the downer against T.Hawk, but a patient Chun can Short Upkicks everything Hawk does from the air... splash, Hawk Dive, and J.Jab. Granted, you can jump from varying distances to make it miss, but it IS a reliable enough anti-air that she can hit these moves with it if she's got good timing and patience.
    A question about new Hawk: j.jab->360 throw doesn't work sometimes. I jump in, do the 360 and Hawk does throw whiff animation, like he can't do the throw. I'm exactly next to the opponent and Hawk doesn't throw. And this is in training mode. What gives?

    Just timing. Before, you would jump, and think you just missed it. The the truth is, you are doing the code while they are still in block stun, so they cannot be grabbed. Wait a fraction of a second, and then do it.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • armaganarmagan Joined: Posts: 70
    Just timing. Before, you would jump, and think you just missed it. The the truth is, you are doing the code while they are still in block stun, so they cannot be grabbed. Wait a fraction of a second, and then do it.

    - James

    Wait. You can't grab while they're in block stun? I remember watching a tutorial video of Zangief in SSF2T grabbing in block stun. Is this Hawk only or did something change in hd remix? Also, I use s.mk->grab a lot, doesn't happen it in block stun?
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Wait. You can't grab while they're in block stun? I remember watching a tutorial video of Zangief in SSF2T grabbing in block stun. Is this Hawk only or did something change in hd remix? Also, I use s.mk->grab a lot, doesn't happen it in block stun?



    If this is the video your referring to then your wrong, Guile was just coming out of block stun while Gief still had some frames before he actually grabbed him.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Yes, you are correct. You CANNOT grab anyone out of Block Stun. If you could, you could just buffer Low Jab into SPD, and it'll grab. No, you HAVE to wait until they come out of it to grab.

    Now, the odd thing is that Gief feels like he has a WINDOW of grabbing, so even if you did it slightly early, it'll start to whiff and THEN grab. You've seen it before when it looks like Gief twitches and THEN grabs. Now, I have NO scientific proof of this concept. It just feels that way from years of using Gief.

    It doesn't seem to work that way for Hawk. I don't think he has that window, again, it might just be how it "feels". But in any case, I too have found myself whiffing his throw a LOT, but that just tells me that in the days of ST, that's probably why I ended up jumping so much when I tried to SPD with Hawk... I was actually doing it too early.

    So just put a fraction of a second delay before trying the SPD, ESPECIALLY with the easier codes that take less time to perform. I find myself whiffing a TON with Hawk just because I do the SPD from D/F to U/B a lot now, and it's SO fast.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    I've seen T Hawk start his whiff animation then go into a throw plenty of times, including in offline play IIRC. At first I thought I was getting the standing jab animation but I'm 95% certain it's the whiff throw animation.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    I swear I'm not trying to be the downer against T.Hawk, but a patient Chun can Short Upkicks everything Hawk does from the air... splash, Hawk Dive, and J.Jab. Granted, you can jump from varying distances to make it miss, but it IS a reliable enough anti-air that she can hit these moves with it if she's got good timing and patience.
    - James

    Once Hawk is on top of her with one close range splash, Chun cannot do upkicks anymore as they get beat for free.

    Explanation: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5795173&postcount=28

    Videos : http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5796065&postcount=33
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    Thanks dude, I really appreciate it, especially from another T.Hawk player.

    Props to the guy who included the new HDR inputs. It doesn't seem like many people utilize the wiki, however I love reading about other's than Hawk.

    I really feel like the whiff animation is destroying my old T.Hawk strategy, not it was complicated at all :"keep spinnin' them 360s and release fierce~strong". Now I have to carefully guess when peeps won't reversal, which means never. Honda, Blanka and Cammy can just keep me away.

    Am I the only one still using the old d/b~360~d/b + release method? Yeah the new motion works wonders for walk-in Typhoons, but after cr.jab or cr.short it's just in my mind to spin. I can't seem to do the walk-in SUPER consistently, and
    cr.jab -> cr.jab -> safe SUPER attempt is impossible for me in HDR.

    SIDENOTE:
    From my point of view they should let us try out T.Hawk without a whiff animation, but his Typhoon should rebound much like SFZ3 Zangief's SPD, so you have to work your way in again after each succesful Typhoon.

    To do the walk in super the easy way hold forward, press light kick from max range and immediately do a half circle back. Then wait a milisecond and do another half circle back and end with up + punch. It's easier to go straight up + punch then to press forward + punch. Less distance to travel, and yeah it works.

    Other fucked up shit I found was that you don't even have to do a full half circle for the 360. You can do it from DF or DB. Personally, I like to start at defensive crouch DB, go to D, DF, F, and back + punch. I can even tick them with a max range jab this way, and I can go to block quicker if I fuck up the motion or just plain whiff. (not to mention block anything that tries to hit me before I get started)

    BTW, to the person having trouble with honda hitting back your normals, have you tried standing middle punch and standing hard kick? Those might work better than the crouching moves.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    snip

    I always try to execute SUPER's without a whiff animation the safe way, so I always end with back + release fierce~strong.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I swear I'm not trying to be the downer against T.Hawk, but a patient Chun can Short Upkicks everything Hawk does from the air... splash, Hawk Dive, and J.Jab. Granted, you can jump from varying distances to make it miss, but it IS a reliable enough anti-air that she can hit these moves with it if she's got good timing and patience.


    I know you're not trying to be the downer on hawk. I'm glad someone is actually arguing with me and helping me prove that i'm not just spewing bullshit.

    Regardless, going off what ive seen, chuns upkicks BLOW. I may be wrong and if someone can prove me wrong be my guest but their startup is fucking slow and the invincibility seems to be slim to none on ALL versions.

    I think its just that a lot of chuns arent patient. a lot of chuns seem to wanna just be like up in your face rush down and what not. its the same thing that cost hondas a lot of matches against hawk. if honda doesnt move from downback, hawk cant do anything, and the match is over. fortunately no one plays like this.


    honestly i guess what im just trying to say is that upkicks are ridiculously hard to hit ANYONE out of the air with, not just hawk


    i <3 hawk
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Man I hate Akuma.

    I had a kid tonight play keepaway spamming fireballs and air fireballs and I couldn't get close. His fireball recovery time is too quick and both his standing and jumping roundhouses have great priority. Jump jab was neutralized and the Hawk Dive was completely useless.

    Ugh.

    KM
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ya but whether Chun can or cannot do that is irrelevant. We will find a way...we as Hawk players always do.

    Everyone here has been through the struggles...we found horrible stuff out 10 years after this game came out...we're used to it...in fact I think a lot of people here hope Hawk is classed as low tier with bad matchups. We enjoy the challenge, hence why we play him.

    But no matter what is said here...I think we have all learned that no matter what tier people think a character is for years...it doesn't matter with someone who puts the time and effort in.

    Everyone thought T.Hawk was a lost cause till a player named Toutanki (Totanki, Tutanki) came along. We...well not all, but me and a lot of other T Hawk players, learned that with practice we can dominate...not overcome...but dominate.

    Shit ask Balrog after Toutanki's SBO video came out...his ass is still sore.

    P.S. I hope T. Hawk stays tier wise where he was from...keeps the riff raff out.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    I remember Toutanki rushing Chun Li down with some j.d+fierce splashes there wasn't much she could do. We discussed this matter in the ST Hawk thread, however one mentioned that O.Chun's SBK can counter the splash rushdown. I don't know much about Chun Li's new changes and neither have I faced a decent Chun Li yet.
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Man, Hawk RAPES Sagat if played right!
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
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