720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    The problem with that strat against guile is that guiles will start to move forward and pressure you to where if you jump straight up over a boom, you're eating a jump roundhouse. Maintain a reasonable distance but dont all of a sudden become honda and sit across the screen.

    If you manage to get in, keep pressing him. Learn to safe jump.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    If Dictator keeps rapid jabbing, slowly walk towards him. That alone will pressure him. Be careful that he doesn't PC or SK when you walk foward. A good Dictator will be expecting it.

    As for Guile, first thing is get the health advantage. Doesn't matter how much, just get it. Stand at the other side of the screen and start jumping STRAIGHT UP over SB's. Throw in a Dive here and there. Upon landing from the Dive, throw out a Cr.Forward or a Cr.Roundhouse. It will beat Guile's Cr.Forward clean. Master safe jumping, otherwise you'll have no chance. One knock down should be enough to end it.

    Also haven't I seen you around on Live?

    Him and his bro play on both systems I believe. His bro is hadoken696969.

    Fear their shotos :confused:
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    The problem with that strat against guile is that guiles will start to move forward and pressure you to where if you jump straight up over a boom, you're eating a jump roundhouse.
    When that happens, wait like an extra split second, jump back and Dive. Its really obvious that they're gonna jump at you as the walk foward. Or you can take the SB and DP afterwards.

    You'll learn how to predict it.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    When that happens, wait like an extra split second, jump back and Dive. Its really obvious that they're gonna jump at you as the walk foward. Or you can take the SB and DP afterwards.

    You'll learn how to predict it.

    Mindcontrol? :looney:

    Is hawk's primary way of getting in neutral jumping and j.lp and dive. His speed kills me when I try to get around fireballs.
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    When that happens, wait like an extra split second, jump back and Dive. Its really obvious that they're gonna jump at you as the walk foward. Or you can take the SB and DP afterwards.

    You'll learn how to predict it.

    I could be mistaken but doesn't the jump jab beats the RH anyway? It's the jumping strong and fierce you have to watch out for. But yes, the jump back-dive strategy works great. :karate:
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I could be mistaken but doesn't the jump jab beats the RH anyway? It's the jumping strong and fierce you have to watch out for. But yes, the jump back-dive strategy works great. :karate:

    I've had mixed results with J.Jab vs. J.Roundhouse.
  • numberVIIXIIInumberVIIXIII Seven Thirteen Joined: Posts: 299
    Nice, now if I can find some good guiles to test this out on. Also was wondering how would like to know how you would stop a heavily defended Honda. Is there any safe form of jumping in? I usually beat the impatient ones but when they are willing to sit with me all day, it becomes a prob. I know rapid jabbing helps, butthe smart ones don't torpedo into it
    I am team "Reversal Attack"
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Nice, now if I can find some good guiles to test this out on. Also was wondering how would like to know how you would stop a heavily defended Honda. Is there any safe form of jumping in? I usually beat the impatient ones but when they are willing to sit with me all day, it becomes a prob. I know rapid jabbing helps, butthe smart ones don't torpedo into it

    I can't provide any links since my school blocks off YouTube right now, but search some of my fights with Thelo. Those should be excellent examples of what you should (or what you can do at least) against Honda.

    Hit up Marsgatti2009. He's an awesome Guile player.
  • boingymanboingyman Joined: Posts: 66
    VIIXIII

    the way I deal with turtle hondas is mix up of rapid cr.jabs and jump back fierce on ocassion, especially if i'm cornered. if timed right you can jump back fierce against a torpedo and combo. if he walks forward sometimes I'll do a dive or just attack. if I have a super, i'll jump tick to a super if he's moving forward. if I do get a knockdown I may go for a tick to a dp. if I get a knockdown again then I may mix it up with a tick to a 360. it just really depends on the honda player. sometimes I'll throw in some baiting pyschic dp or walk up 350, but it just depends. bottom line the cr.jab and mixing it up or attacking when possible with patience is what it takes.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    VIIXIII

    the way I deal with turtle hondas is mix up of rapid cr.jabs and jump back fierce on ocassion, especially if i'm cornered. if timed right you can jump back fierce against a torpedo and combo. if he walks forward sometimes I'll do a dive or just attack. if I have a super, i'll jump tick to a super if he's moving forward. if I do get a knockdown I may go for a tick to a dp. if I get a knockdown again then I may mix it up with a tick to a 360. it just really depends on the honda player. sometimes I'll throw in some baiting pyschic dp or walk up 350, but it just depends. bottom line the cr.jab and mixing it up or attacking when possible with patience is what it takes.

    But what if the Honda player does what he asked? What if he just sits there in :db:? Will inching forward with cr.:lp: help you get close enough to force Honda to do something?

    Please note that the only reason why I'm asking this is because you qualified a lot of your strategy with "if he's moving forward". That's not what he asked. He asked what to do against Honda players that DO NOT move forward...except when they're in a move that will hit you out of whatever you're doing to get close. It is critical when answering questions about difficult matchups and/or scenarios to simply stick to what's been asked...'cause I don't have much to offer here, either...not that I'm an awesome Hawk player by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm also at a loss and I was looking forward to a good detailed answer on this.

    I'm definitely going to look up Jiggly's videos against Thelo and see what happens there. The last Hawk vs. Honda match I saw involved both players spamming cr.:lp: until the last 5 seconds of the round...and then Hawk did only what he could...which was incredibly risky compared to what Honda had to do to get his hits in and win the round. :) It was the most exciting match I've seen indeed...not! :) (Y'all know what I'm talking about.)

    Edit: After viewing a fight that was taped in June on Thelo's page, I just have to say that if Thelo's Honda had a cold, he's all better now because Jiggly's Hawk comboed the snot out of him! :) It's not hopeless. You just gotta be *real* tricky.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    VIIXIII

    the way I deal with turtle hondas is mix up of rapid cr.jabs and jump back fierce on ocassion, especially if i'm cornered. if timed right you can jump back fierce against a torpedo and combo. if he walks forward sometimes I'll do a dive or just attack. if I have a super, i'll jump tick to a super if he's moving forward. if I do get a knockdown I may go for a tick to a dp. if I get a knockdown again then I may mix it up with a tick to a 360. it just really depends on the honda player. sometimes I'll throw in some baiting pyschic dp or walk up 350, but it just depends. bottom line the cr.jab and mixing it up or attacking when possible with patience is what it takes.



    Even then, its still a very difficult match for Hawk. He can only win that fight purely by guessing correctly every time.
  • boingymanboingyman Joined: Posts: 66
    I know it's extremely difficult. that video in general is how most of the matches end up when you put a good hawk and a good honda together. the guessing game is right and unfortunately it's tough.

    freshoj the way I like to see it is what can honda do to force hawk to do something? there has to be some give and take.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I know it's extremely difficult. that video in general is how most of the matches end up when you put a good hawk and a good honda together. the guessing game is right and unfortunately it's tough.

    freshoj the way I like to see it is what can honda do to force hawk to do something? there has to be some give and take.
    It all revolves around who has the health advantage.
  • boingymanboingyman Joined: Posts: 66
    It all revolves around who has the health advantage.

    yes indeed. if you have the health advantage it forces honda to attack, however the other way around makes it much more difficult.
  • numberVIIXIIInumberVIIXIII Seven Thirteen Joined: Posts: 299
    dang, i know ive been sounding needy, but ive been murdering offensive chuns, but it seems the defensive ones are killing me....there was a match where i couldnt get in without getting hit by a safe jump lk and and kikouken zoning.
    I just feel like I've been winning because people get impatient.....i kinda wanna win one where I'm rushing in.

    I've gotten pretty decent at fighting Hondas after reading the advice, but yet again...it took my pychic prowess and impatience on the other part.

    also I'm still having trouble blocking crossovers. i still dunno if its the xbox part or the ps3 part
    I am team "Reversal Attack"
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    If most cross-ups with Hawk need to be blocked holding back.

    As for Chun, just focus on getting a knock down, and safe jump jab Typhoon for the win.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    yes indeed. if you have the health advantage it forces honda to attack, however the other way around makes it much more difficult.

    You've missed the point, though. Who has an easier time getting that crucial health advantage? Jiggly already answered that question: Honda. Why? Because the Hawk player has to guess in order to get in on Honda and do damage. Honda has many more easily implemented defensive strategies and moves to keep Hawk out of striking distance. The *only* two ways that Hawk can get safe damage on a blocking opponent is with the walk-up Typhoon and the new Hawk Dive. Anything else he does will result in either pushing Honda right back out of his own effective range without doing any damage or will leave him wide open for punishment (if he doesn't actually hit with the Rising Hawk (or Thunderstrike, whichever name you prefer...I can't remember which one's official right now). Even with those two ways of getting safe damage, you still have to actually get close enough to use them without getting hit by the Sumo Headbutt.

    So, as you can see, it's a bit more complicated than "get the health advantage".

    Well...okay...it's not so complicated if you just "try harder". :)
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • boingymanboingyman Joined: Posts: 66
    You've missed the point, though. Who has an easier time getting that crucial health advantage? Jiggly already answered that question: Honda. Why? Because the Hawk player has to guess in order to get in on Honda and do damage. Honda has many more easily implemented defensive strategies and moves to keep Hawk out of striking distance. The *only* two ways that Hawk can get safe damage on a blocking opponent is with the walk-up Typhoon and the new Hawk Dive. Anything else he does will result in either pushing Honda right back out of his own effective range without doing any damage or will leave him wide open for punishment (if he doesn't actually hit with the Rising Hawk (or Thunderstrike, whichever name you prefer...I can't remember which one's official right now). Even with those two ways of getting safe damage, you still have to actually get close enough to use them without getting hit by the Sumo Headbutt.

    So, as you can see, it's a bit more complicated than "get the health advantage".

    Well...okay...it's not so complicated if you just "try harder". :)

    I know exactly what you mean no need of a explanation, I was just trying to add in some confidence when playing against honda. :)

    I'm more interested in other peoples strategies against a really good gief or cammy.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I gotta find a way to record some Hawk vs. Gief matches I have with Kuroppi. I'm telling you all, the Earth shakes when we fight. :P
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Wish I could still play this game, even online. Too occupied with a shitty game that somehow has a scene unfortunately. Really hard to have motivation to play when no one around here wants to try and play a GOOD game and just wants to play sf4. :(
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    I gotta find a way to record some Hawk vs. Gief matches I have with Kuroppi. I'm telling you all, the Earth shakes when we fight. :P

    I'd believe it. :) Get those vids up.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I gotta find a way to record some Hawk vs. Gief matches I have with Kuroppi. I'm telling you all, the Earth shakes when we fight. :P

    Oh yes, I love me some good grappler on grappler action. :rofl:
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    I gotta find a way to record some Hawk vs. Gief matches I have with Kuroppi. I'm telling you all, the Earth shakes when we fight. :P

    I have an inexpensive usb capture device that I was using before but it's not working now. I think I might know the problem though and might be able to get it working soon.

    I'll definitely start recording our matches if I can get it working again.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

    www.strevival.com | STR Facebook | Twitter
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I have an inexpensive usb capture device that I was using before but it's not working now. I think I might know the problem though and might be able to get it working soon.

    I'll definitely start recording our matches if I can get it working again.
    Good. We should make a T.Hawk vs. Zangief tutorial video. :P
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    So after fighting Aqua Snakes Fei Long (gg's dude), I've confirmed that you can't reversal his CW every time. MK CW is safe on hit or block from your Typhoon range. Just stay wary of that Hawks.
  • Aqua SnakeAqua Snake Never Outskilled... Joined: Posts: 1,325
    So after fighting Aqua Snakes Fei Long (gg's dude), I've confirmed that you can't reversal his CW every time. MK CW is safe on hit or block from your Typhoon range. Just stay wary of that Hawks.

    He's lying!

    Don't fall for his trickz!
  • vladgdvladgd bear wrestler Joined: Posts: 76
    Good. We should make a T.Hawk vs. Zangief tutorial video. :P

    i would totally look forward to watching those

    i always have a smile on my face every time i fight another grappler
    st- dictator
    usf4- honda
    sfv- dictator
  • JehoediJehoedi making ALL KINDS of gains Joined: Posts: 257
    Hi. So I've been playing some Hawk lately. God is he fun to play with. It can be a bitch finding an opening, but when you do the satisfaction of making your opponent one with the ground is great. However I do have a few questions about his gameplay. Firstly when doing the combo jump-in/crossup into st.mk xx Rising Hawk. Do some of you press towards when hitting the mk so that you can finish the Rising Hawk with a QCF + P? When I don't use the shortcut I sometimes whiff the Rising Hawk 'cos I'm not quick enough doing motion. With Ryu I can DP out of a c.MK easy though. So does this have to do with musclememory or that the st.MK into Rising Hawk is just more difficult? Secondly, is there some magic way that you can tell when you're going to whiff a 360 or not? Too often have I whiffed a 360 in a blockstring or after blocking a blockstring myself.
  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    snip

    1) Ignore this

    2) If you're wiffing off of a tick set up that most likely means you're executing the 360 to soon and you're, in game, trying to grab them out of block stun. Try waiting a bit longer before executing the 360.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Firstly when doing the combo jump-in/crossup into st.mk xx Rising Hawk. Do some of you press towards when hitting the mk so that you can finish the Rising Hawk with a QCF + P?
    1) I just leave my stick in neutral and do a SRK motion really quickly.
    You can't do a QCF+P Rising Hawk no matter how hard you try first of all. The motion is :r::d::df:+:p:.

    Secondly if you leave your stick in neutral for the standing medium kick then you are making things much harder on yourself.

    Here's the combo done properly starting from the 2P side:

    Crossup :d:+:hp:, :r:+:mk:, :d::df:+:hp:

    You combine the first motion of the Risking Hawk (:r:) into the standing medium kick. This is known as a 2-in-1 and is pretty basic.

    Here it is from the 1P side:

    Crossup :d:+:hp:, :l:+:mk:, :d::db:+:hp:

    You overlap the first input of the Rising Hawk into the standing medium kick to eliminate one of the directional inputs.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    If you do f, qcf punch fast enough, you will get Hawk's DP. You can even get a Shoryuken that way with Hadoken characters, if you do it fast enough.
  • JehoediJehoedi making ALL KINDS of gains Joined: Posts: 257
    snip

    If you cared to have read my post properly. You would have seen that that is exactly what I'm referring to. So I was correct then. Good to know.

    blitzfu knows what I'm getting at. :arazz:

    Edit: I seriously got bad repped for telling someone they didn't read my post? Even though it's true? Geez. Tough effing crowd. Didn't know we all had sand in our vagina's.
  • TschesaeTschesae Joined: Posts: 178
    Nobody cares about rep and so should you. Sorry for ot - as soon as I get my stick I will probably be posting useful stuff in this thread.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Edit: I seriously got bad repped for telling someone they didn't read my post? Even though it's true? Geez. Tough effing crowd. Didn't know we all had sand in our vagina's.

    Don't even worry about neg rep, and don't worry about VF4. He's known around here as the neg rep dude. I would rather somebody debate my point with a post of their own, instead of just neg repping. That's some passive aggressive behavior. Not that I care about neg rep either, I got neg repped by VF4 for my last post, and prolly for this one too (I luvs me some neg rep! :cool:), but all I'm saying is, better to debate civilly rather than go behind somebody's back.
    Secondly if you leave your stick in neutral for the standing medium kick then you are making things much harder on yourself.

    No you're not. It works.
    1) I just leave my stick in neutral and do a SRK motion really quickly.

    See? I do that sometimes too.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Why go to neutral in the first place? That doesnt really make any sense.

    I love how everyone bashes / hates VF4 when in reality he makes the most sense out of a lot of people. Especially in THIS thread
  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    I do it to avoid sloppy execution after Hawk splash. I could explain it, but everyone's better off listening to Gridman anyway since he actually plays T Hawk seriously.
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Why go to neutral in the first place? That doesnt really make any sense.

    I love how everyone bashes / hates VF4 when in reality he makes the most sense out of a lot of people. Especially in THIS thread

    I agree.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    I combo into the Rising Hawk either way...because I can. :) I do tend to hold the joystick forward when using standing moves that I intend to cancel into DP-like moves, though.

    Oh...and yes, blitzfu is also right. :r::d::df::r:+:p: will just about always allow you to execute :r::d::df:+:p: moves in this game. That's been true since World Warrior.

    And.....while I'm generally not a fan of telling people that they didn't read your post, it's interesting that the person doing the neg repping once told me that I didn't read their post. Pot. Kettle. Black. If you're going to apply a standard to someone else, it's a good idea to apply it to yourself first. I just gotta tell the truth, mayne...and if I get neg repped for doing that...so be it. Look under my name or look in my signature and you'll see where I get my rep from.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I love how everyone bashes / hates VF4 when in reality he makes the most sense out of a lot of people. Especially in THIS thread

    I love how VF4 hates/bashes on everybody, when in reality, they are actually making sense. See post # 789 and 790 for proof, as well as my neg rep record:

    reputation_neg.gif 720s FTW!! (T-Hawk... 11-14-2009 06:06 PM ....
    Why go to neutral in the first place? That doesnt really make any sense.

    For some people, that's the only way they can reliably execute the dragon punch command. The DP command is not easy to execute, and for some people it just depends on how they trained themselves to learn it. For others, they can only do it while holding f first, or from a db position first. Personally, I can do DPs from any position, but the fastest way to execute is when I'm holding f. When I used to play on stick, the fastest way was from a db position, but as I'm on pad now, I can still do it from a db position, but I can only do it really slow. 2nd fastest way for me on pad is from a neutral position. I'm just saying everybody's different, don't hate on me. :annoy::rofl:
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Does hawk's far standing hk hit a crouching shoto?
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
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