720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Does hawk's far standing hk hit a crouching shoto?
    Why don't you test this out yourself and post? Stuff like this should be done on your own really.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Does hawk's far standing hk hit a crouching shoto?
    Only if they're close or somewhat close.
  • GrogGrog discombobulatingly Joined: Posts: 3,617
    Does hawk's far standing hk hit a crouching shoto?

    This kick is so awesome (asthetically) that it should, and hit even on block. Also it needs Balrog's "FINAL!" damage.
    no one cares syxx

    www.dontblowthis.com
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Only if they're close or somewhat close.

    Ok, I thought it whiffed, so that means the CPU wasn't cheating.
    Why don't you test this out yourself and post? Stuff like this should be done on your own really.

    I don't have the time usually, and this forum is kinda dead anyway.

    Its cool though I'd hate to just spark some convo or anything.
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    streetfighterdojo.com: ST T. Hawk Page

    I finally got the ST T. Hawk section up at streetfighterdojo.com.

    The link is:
    http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/thawk/thawkmatches.html

    Yes, it's ST and not HDR, but some of it is similar and I expect HDR players will get some use out of the matches and extras.

    Akuma is next in line.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I finally got the ST T. Hawk section up at streetfighterdojo.com.

    The link is:
    http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/thawk/thawkmatches.html

    Yes, it's ST and not HDR, but some of it is similar and I expect HDR players will get some use out of the matches and extras.

    Akuma is next in line.

    How the hell did you give Blanka-Hawk a 2/10?
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    How the hell did you give Blanka-Hawk a 2/10?

    I used the Sagat page as a template and forgot to update the numbers to T. Hawk's. :)

    All good now.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Yeah that's more reasonable. :P

    Although Honda-Hawk is 8/10. Don't see how Blanka could be harder than Honda.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Yeah that's more reasonable. :P

    Although Honda-Hawk is 8/10. Don't see how Blanka could be harder than Honda.

    For matchup #'s I'm using the "New Arcadia Diagram" chart from Nohoho's site:
    http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/11/super-turbo-new-arcadia-diagram.html

    It's a "peer review" chart (opinion based), so numbers are gonna come down to personal bias vs. other top player/character matchups.

    I this case, I guess K fears Komoda's Blanka more than Kusumondo's Honda. (chart does not rate Super versions of characters so Shogatsu's O.Honda isn't considered)
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    For matchup #'s I'm using the "New Arcadia Diagram" chart from Nohoho's site:
    http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/11/super-turbo-new-arcadia-diagram.html

    It's a "peer review" chart (opinion based), so numbers are gonna come down to personal bias vs. other top player/character matchups.

    I this case, I guess K fears Komoda's Blanka more than Kusumondo's Honda. (chart does not rate Super versions of characters so Shogatsu's O.Honda isn't considered)

    Interesting. I'd like too see what K see's that I don't.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Interesting. I'd like too see what K see's that I don't.

    Yeah, I'd love to have the input of the Japan ST Pros.

    K has beaten both Kusumondo and Komoda, though he did use O.Hawk to do it and O.Hawk wouldn't be considered for that tiering chart.

    Not sure how the matchups change for ST Hawk.
    Also, maybe things like Blanka's back dash to escape traps is a factor.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Yeah, I'd love to have the input of the Japan ST Pros.

    K has beaten both Kusumondo and Komoda, though he did use O.Hawk to do it and O.Hawk wouldn't be considered for that tiering chart.

    Not sure how the matchups change for ST Hawk.
    Also, maybe things like Blanka's back dash to escape traps is a factor.
    Ochio and Jab Headbutt are hella more threatening than the backdash IMO.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Well you cant safe jump blanka anyways too. Above Average/Really Great blanka players who know how to fight t.hawk are REALLY hard to play against. However, most of them dont and try to play the matchup the wrong way. Id think in theory honda could be harder if he sits on a downback charge the whole time.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Well you cant safe jump blanka anyways too. Above Average/Really Great blanka players who know how to fight t.hawk are REALLY hard to play against. However, most of them dont and try to play the matchup the wrong way. Id think in theory honda could be harder if he sits on a downback charge the whole time.

    You can't really safe jump Blanka, but you can a pretty sick mix-up on him after he's down, and I do this too Antonio ALL the time. After Blanka is knocked down, jump and do fierce early. If he Up Balls, it'll beat Blanka's Up Ball clean. The only Blanka can avoid this is too just block and allow Hawk to get close, or back dash.

    In the case that Blanka back dashes, Dive. Get the mix-up going on him, and if you Dive instead of doing a J.:hp:, and Blanka back dashes, he's knocked down and you can repeat the cycle again.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    You can't really safe jump Blanka, but you can a pretty sick mix-up on him after he's down, and I do this too Antonio ALL the time. After Blanka is knocked down, jump and do fierce early. If he Up Balls, it'll beat Blanka's Up Ball clean. The only Blanka can avoid this is too just block and allow Hawk to get close, or back dash.

    In the case that Blanka back dashes, Dive. Get the mix-up going on him, and if you Dive instead of doing a J.:hp:, and Blanka back dashes, he's knocked down and you can repeat the cycle again.

    If you do your jump attack early can't he just wait and then up ball right before you land?

    I don't think I'm picturing what you are saying correctly.
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    If you do your jump attack early can't he just wait and then up ball right before you land?

    I don't think I'm picturing what you are saying correctly.

    No dude. You throw out the fierce right as you begin to fall from your jump and there's no way Blanka can hit you with the Up Ball.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    If you do your jump attack early can't he just wait and then up ball right before you land?

    The jumping fierce can hit Blanka out of the ball clean. If the jump is just too late, then it might trade with a reversal up-ball.
    You can't really safe jump Blanka, but you can a pretty sick mix-up on him after he's down, and I do this too Antonio ALL the time. After Blanka is knocked down, jump and do fierce early. If he Up Balls, it'll beat Blanka's Up Ball clean. The only Blanka can avoid this is too just block and allow Hawk to get close, or back dash.

    IIRC you can't do the dive after the peak of the jump, which - on paper - gives the blanka player enough time to choose the correct response.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
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  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Found the solution to the "DP bug when trying to 720": Negative Edge the Super. You'll almost never get a DP. You can all stop complaining now.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Found the solution to the "DP bug when trying to 720": Negative Edge the Super. You'll almost never get a DP. You can all stop complaining now.

    Great let me modify how I do a super motion because of sloppy programming!
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Found the solution to the "DP bug when trying to 720": Negative Edge the Super. You'll almost never get a DP. You can all stop complaining now.
    Great let me modify how I do a super motion because of sloppy programming!
    Sadly, while this works on the 360 version, I just tested it on the PS3 version and managed to get a dragon punch instead of the SUPER a few times while only using negative edge.

    So the bug affects both the 360 and PS3 versions but seems to occur noticeably more often on the PS3 version.

    :lame: Backbone sucks!
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    How are you guys doing the Super motion? 720, I know, but are you ending in df or db or what exactly are you doing? I do TK motion (db, d, df, f, uf) x 2 and I have never gotten the DP to come out, 100% Super and nothing but. And that's on PS3, and every other Hawk I've played, especially jeffhizzle and TrueOldSchool, don't seem to have any problems with this either. And no need for NE either.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    How are you guys doing the Super motion? 720, I know, but are you ending in df or db or what exactly are you doing? I do TK motion (db, d, df, f, uf) x 2 and I have never gotten the DP to come out, 100% Super and nothing but. And that's on PS3, and every other Hawk I've played, especially jeffhizzle and TrueOldSchool, don't seem to have any problems with this either. And no need for NE either.
    :hcb::hcb::ub:+:p:
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    :hcb::hcb::ub:+:p:

    Ah ok, my bad. nvm :rofl: If NE doesn't fix that motion's bug on PS3, then that does suck. Just one more reason to move the tourney standard to 360.
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    :lame: HDR sucks!

    Fixed.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    merry christmas bros. i got my own xbox in my room + sf4 stick so add my new account and we'll get some games
  • Quick ManQuick Man Joined: Posts: 497
    I want to start using this guy in HDR. Does anyone know of a beginners guide for him?

    I'm reading the wiki but wonder if the info is too old since its ST.
  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    Yeah, Hawk had some fundemental changes in HDR, the same basic priciples apply, but some key stuff acts differently.
    AV provided by Savaii
  • Quick ManQuick Man Joined: Posts: 497
    Anyway to counter vega rolling claw attack?
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Anyway to counter vega rolling claw attack?

    Psychic DP.
  • Quick ManQuick Man Joined: Posts: 497
    Psychic DP.

    SRK is on fire tonight. How about a real response though?
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    SRK is on fire tonight. How about a real response though?

    Reactionary DP.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    Psychic DP.

    That's a perfectly legitimate response. If they roll all the time, just throw out a DP or similar move. You can also DP on reaction if they like to start a roll attack early.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    SRK is on fire tonight. How about a real response though?

    Wtf do you mean? That was a real response. That's the most practical way of beating it.
  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    SRK is on fire tonight. How about a real response though?

    Here's a real response. DP. If you think you're badass you can try and do a 360. But what else do you fucking want?

    Here's how to play T.Hawk in HDR. You die because even if Hawk got better in HDR, pretty much everyone that beat him got way better (and everyone he beat the shit out of he does it even better...because the chars got nerfed)

    A real response to play T.Hawk? Learn footsies, he has really good pokes. st.rh against shotos in good range for their fireball, but don't become too predictable to get umeshoryu'd. Most of the time if st.rh doesn't stuff the fb it trades and round resets to neutral (which is the best thing you can hope for) Learn how to space st.mp and how to use it as AA, it still activates way too far leaving you whacking air when they jump in combo you.

    Dive sucks, it leaves you at neutral now instead of giving you a knockdown which was essential for a lot of his shitty matchups. You don't have O.Hawk's throw loop in the corner anymore, aka no more option select because Sirlin thought it was a cool idea to give him a whiff animation.

    Versus chars like shotos you just have to pray you poke them to death, get random sweep for knockdown or walk up shoryu against their fb and you have to capitalize off that way more than you would have to in original st because you don't have os j.jab into 360 and you don't have a dive that knocks down.

    Against Deejay, you have to just hope that he has shitty reactions and just doesn't know the matchup. You can't move forward, you can't jump in without getting fucked up.

    It's even worse in Guile Matchup, you can't even neutral jump over fireballs safely at most distances because of rh.fk (dumb fucking idea)

    Matchup vs Sim is godawful just because of the fact that he already suffered horribly in the matchup in original st, and by taking away throw loop and knockdown dive you're just going to eat pokes all day.

    You still lose in Honda matchup, not even bothering to explain why.

    Vega matchup is pretty much the same. Wait for him to come to you. j.jab his dive attempts, reaction dp versus ball.

    Bison matchup is gay as shit since he has houdini hitbox on cr.mk that beats most j.jab attempts, and Bison's unneeded changes were dumb giving him a bit more advantage than he did in ogst.

    Chun matchup is actually one of the matches where you're in favor pretty much all of the time, now that she's pretty much the worst char in the game. Poke her to death and jump in on her a lot, she really can't do much vs splash other than if you do bad spaced one she can neutral j.rh you.

    Rog matchup is still the same from ogst. Don't jump in on him unless its for oki. Sit and wait for him to come at you with 360 his fullscreen dash punches, whiff cr.jabs to stop him from coming in, dp his slow jumping. cr.strong can do the same as jab if u wanna be fancy.

    Blanka matchup is the same, get balled to death no matter what and you can't punish, maybe st.rh I don't remember on badly timed balls. DP his jumpins. It's a matter of who can get in who's head faster in this match.

    I'm sure I'm missing some chars, but I'm sick so I don't give a shit atm. If you have more questions I can answer them later.
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  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    It's even worse in Guile Matchup, you can't even neutral jump over fireballs safely at most distances because of rh.fk (dumb fucking idea)

    Not really. The Guile match-up is 6-4 in HDR. Blocked or hit, Dive, land and throw out Cr.MK is pretty bullet-proof. You couldn't neutral jump over a fireball in ST at RH Flash Kick range either very well because of Guiles J.RH.

    Matchup vs Sim is godawful just because of the fact that he already suffered horribly in the matchup in original st, and by taking away throw loop and knockdown dive you're just going to eat pokes all day.
    Wrong again. Sim is still f'd in the corner, throw whiff or no throw whiff.
  • The OspreyThe Osprey Bird Brain Joined: Posts: 296
    I'm no expert, but I main Blanka, and I NEVER use balls in the Hawk match. The rapid fire c.jabs stop them cold, and holy crap does it suck getting dp'd out of a ball. (j.jab will also stop them BTW)

    Trying to reversal a 360 tick is about the only time the ball seems usefull in this match, but its definitely a last ditch, I hope this works kind of thing. Basically if Blanka is up against the wall trying to guess the reversal, the round is over. (I've played Jiggly enough times to know that.)
    "One does not simply flowchart into Mordor." - Tuna Fish Riot
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,223

    Chun matchup is actually one of the matches where you're in favor pretty much all of the time, now that she's pretty much the worst char in the game.
    Not attacking you or anything but I'd really like to hear your justification for this. I would argue that Cammy, Fei-Long, and Zangief are the worst - but at least with 'Gief you have the potential to deal massive damage.
  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    Not attacking you or anything but I'd really like to hear your justification for this. I would argue that Cammy, Fei-Long, and Zangief are the worst - but at least with 'Gief you have the potential to deal massive damage.

    I concur, I cannot even fathom Chun being "the worst char in the game", heck most/all tier lists put her over Guile. And I know, tier lists arent everything, esp. in HDR, where even low tier chars have won at tourny level. I dont think I have EVER heard anyone call Chun gutter tier in HDR/ST ever.
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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Don't bother Mizuki is just a ST troll.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
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