720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    CWheezy, ST Hawk is more footsies than R. Hawk because R. Hawk can rely more on safe dive and gauranteed DP knockdown.

    Shari, the question was asked. The difference is I address the issues at hand with knowledge and reason, whereas you and several others only attack and criticize.

    Oh don't worry i posted a thread asking for a definitive answer regarding that attitude and if it could be considered trolling and warrant for an infraction.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    For everyone else out there riding the wave of easy execution, you will find that there's nothing at the end of that rainbow but the realization of what ST is all about.

    :facepalm:

    There's a really good chance that most people who like HDR don't really care about "easy execution". As Sirlin said, most of the easy execution stuff was for attracting new players. The meat of HDR is the balance. It seriously sounds like you rail on HDR because you don't like the possibility of losing matchups in HDR that you normally wouldn't in ST.
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  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    CWheezy, ST Hawk is more footsies than R. Hawk because R. Hawk can rely more on safe dive and gauranteed DP knockdown.

    That isn't what you said you said st is good because it is hard to play without mentioning other reasons.

    That is why it is called grandmaster challenge tactics suck execution is the real game
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Damdai, all respect to you, I think your answer was fine (especially the misinformation about Honda's loop being 100% "safe", saved me from responding, LOL), you gave your informed opinion and gave reasons for them. But that last paragraph of your initial post (the one about the wave of easy execution) was really uncalled for and served no purpose but to cause trouble, especially in the HDR forum. Everyone knows where you stand on the HDR v. ST thing, you don't have to throw a barb in on every post, LOL. I was with you until that part, LOL.
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  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    It seriously sounds like you rail on HDR because you don't like the possibility of losing matchups in HDR that you normally wouldn't in ST.

    3 of my mains, Ryu, Ken, and Zangief were all buffed in HDR. Most of their matches are easier to win now, so I don't think that's it.

    Madpossum, you're right, I'll remove it.
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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Why are you guys letting Damdai derail the T-Hawk thread with his trolling ?

    Just ignore him.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    Why are you guys letting Damdai derail the T-Hawk thread with his trolling ?

    Just ignore him.

    Shari, you are guiltier than I am. At least I actually contributed something. And as Madpossum pointed out, I was wrong to include that last paragraph in my initial post, so I removed it.
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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Shari, you are guiltier than I am. At least I actually contributed something. And as Madpossum pointed out, I was wrong to include that last paragraph in my initial post, so I removed it.

    And here we go with the derailing again.

    You indeed contributed drama.

    I know i kinda screw with the whole point of not letting him derail the thread with his trolling by responding but i am just illustrating my point.

    Therefore that shall be the last response Mr Trolldai gets from me in this thread.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    So, I did some testing last night, and I only get one active frame of Typhoon, and I can't get any SPD->SPD cancel that people claim is possible. Does anyone know what the technique or context for that sort of thing is?
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Just to clear up some misinformation, ST Honda's loop is not risk free. The thing that makes Hawk's loop risk free is the safe jump. Without that, you can be reversaled or thrown out of the ground tick.

    To answer DNGR S PAPERCUT's bump, having won a tournament with R. Hawk and nearly mastering O. Hawk, I can confidently say that O. Hawk is better and more fun. His throw loop is the most powerful thing in the game, but also arguably the most difficult to execute. Take that away, and I don't see how you can call that character better.

    this is the only thing lost. but aside from that its like giving ST o. hawk a super which is great for comebacks. you can still safe jump tick and bait reversals if your playing someone that likes to reverse a lot. I am fine with giving up that throw loop for an extra option of getting in using the dive. and your not really giving it up, you just have to mix things up now. its not any different then how gief would play.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    So, I did some testing last night, and I only get one active frame of Typhoon, and I can't get any SPD->SPD cancel that people claim is possible. Does anyone know what the technique or context for that sort of thing is?

    Are you talking about cancelling the wiff animation into SPD? I'm confused.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    So, I did some testing last night, and I only get one active frame of Typhoon, and I can't get any SPD->SPD cancel that people claim is possible. Does anyone know what the technique or context for that sort of thing is?

    this might be roll back. Its happened to me before. I chalk it up to lag. it probably lag right after the whiff, not showing you the recovery frames so it looks like you whiff and then go straight into spd after.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • TheloThelo Holdin' down-back Joined: Posts: 1,144 mod
    Are you talking about cancelling the wiff animation into SPD? I'm confused.
    Yeah that's what he's talking about. Where for instance, if you input SPD 2 frames too early, but then repeat a punch input 2 frames after the initial whiff (when the opponent becomes throwable), it would go from whiffing-SPD to grabbing-SPD. I actually don't remember who mentioned that that exists but I do remember someone claiming that.

    ***

    Edit: for a Zangief visual aid.
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  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    this might be roll back. Its happened to me before. I chalk it up to lag. it probably lag right after the whiff, not showing you the recovery frames so it looks like you whiff and then go straight into spd after.

    This appears sometimes in offline ST with Zangief's grab. He kind of does a double take. I think it's because of active frames during the whiff animation.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    The thing that makes Hawk's loop risk free is the safe jump. Without that, you can be reversaled or thrown out of the ground tick.
    Are you positive? Recently, many T. Hawk masters have switched to cr.jab ticks against many characters.* It looks like it is possible to measure the distance such that their reversals will whiff against it, or only reach Hawk by the time he will be blocking or doing the rising Hawk from the option select typhoon.

    *VF4 posts a bunch of Hawk videos in the ST section.
  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    Are you positive? Recently, many T. Hawk masters have switched to cr.jab ticks against many characters.* It looks like it is possible to measure the distance such that their reversals will whiff against it, or only reach Hawk by the time he will be blocking or doing the rising Hawk from the option select typhoon.

    *VF4 posts a bunch of Hawk videos in the ST section.

    His neutral standing jab is great against most character's wakeup options, but leaves him too far to grab without taking an unsafe step forward. The main point was that Honda cannot do the loop without risk.
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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Are you positive? Recently, many T. Hawk masters have switched to cr.jab ticks against many characters.* It looks like it is possible to measure the distance such that their reversals will whiff against it, or only reach Hawk by the time he will be blocking or doing the rising Hawk from the option select typhoon.

    *VF4 posts a bunch of Hawk videos in the ST section.

    you would only do meaty ticks if you couldn't set up the safe jump on time. the safe jump is hawks bread and butter.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • CauldrathCauldrath Joined: Posts: 617
    Balrog's throw range was definitely reduced. I'm not an experienced Balrog player, so I'm not 100% sure if it was both Strong and Fierce that got reduced, or if it was just Strong. I've heard some Balrog players say it's just Strong, but obviously an experienced Balrog player will be able to confirm this. The Fierce throw already had less range than Strong in ST so this is fine. There is definitely a difference though, even from my perspective of having to beat a Balrog player, I can reversal throw his loop more easily than in ST (where I had to rely on reversal Shoryukens only). And that's the whole point of the nerf (same for Ken, can't speak for the damage reduction without empirical evidence), but more characters can reversal throw Ken, Balrog and Dhalsim in Remix, which makes the loop that much less abusive and mindless, and less difficult to deal with, instead of only having to rely on reversal attacks, most can now reversal throw too.

    I'm quite aware of what the intended changes were, and checked them against what is actually true in classic versus HD mode. R. Boxer's throw range for fierce is the same as N. Boxer's throw range for fierce, and R. Boxer's throw range for strong is the same as N. Boxer's throw range for strong. I guess I could concede that the throw range was reduced by an amount imperceptible to me (like 1 pixel), but I doubt it. Ken's throw range nerf was described as "an extremely tiny amount," but was still obvious. Go test it yourself if you don't believe me.
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  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    I'm quite aware of what the intended changes were, and checked them against what is actually true in classic versus HD mode. R. Boxer's throw range for fierce is the same as N. Boxer's throw range for fierce, and R. Boxer's throw range for strong is the same as N. Boxer's throw range for strong. I guess I could concede that the throw range was reduced by an amount imperceptible to me (like 1 pixel), but I doubt it. Ken's throw range nerf was described as "an extremely tiny amount," but was still obvious. Go test it yourself if you don't believe me.

    I have a much easier time setting up the Honda Fierce bear-hug, safe-jump Roundhouse, Fierce bear-hug loop on Boxer in HDR than in ST. In ST I have to do the follow-up throw at the very exact max distance of Honda's throw range or I would get reversal thrown. In HDR it seems I have a small amount of more room to play with (not much, but it's noticable to me). So it seems to me his range is very slightly less in HDR.

    Don't know what any of this has to do with T.Hawk, though. LOL.

    Rufus I get the wiff cancelling into SPD all the time. I don't play a lot of Hawk and my timing's not the greatest so I'll get the beginning of the wiff animation and then the SPD after a tick a lot, and it happens offline as well so it's not rollback. I will frequently piano or double tap two buttons after the motion so I think the reason it happens is like what Thelo explained (hit one button to early, then they're throwable as I hit the button again).

    I would assume it would pssible to cancel the wiff into other special moves, like his SRK? Would that actually be usefull for baiting/mix-up purposes? I think it would happen to fast (and a reversal would hit the first few frames of the wiff anyway) to be anything but very situational.
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  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    I would assume it would pssible to cancel the wiff into other special moves, like his SRK? Would that actually be usefull for baiting/mix-up purposes? I think it would happen to fast (and a reversal would hit the first few frames of the wiff anyway) to be anything but very situational.

    Not likely. Special-special canceling is weird in HDR.
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  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    We had a discussion on Sirlin's forums about R.Hawk's cancellable whiff into working command grab. Basically, Sirlin verified what I had discovered accidentally way back in HDR: T.Hawk can, in fact, cancel a whiff into his Typhoon so long as the button presses after the whiff still occur within the command grab's frame window. It's noticeable too, even offline, if you piano the inputs properly.

    I wouldn't imagine the whiff would be realistically cancellable into other specials since the command input would have to be different. (Anyone with a programmable controller, feel free to verify this.) It may well be the case (and this is purely speculation, mind you) that cancelling his whiff follows rules similar to how cancelling many normals works; it would have to be within the first five frames or so of start-up. This would allow just perfectly for all six possible grabbing frames on a perfect piano if the first input whiffed as well.

    One more thing...posting a personal preference as to whether or not O.Hawk from ST is better than HDR Hawk, no matter what your skill level or tournament results are, doesn't belong in the HDR Hawk strategy thread. Didn't that precedent get set last year once the Fei thread got remade?
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    We had a discussion on Sirlin's forums about R.Hawk's cancellable whiff into working command grab. Basically, Sirlin verified what I had discovered accidentally way back in HDR: T.Hawk can, in fact, cancel a whiff into his Typhoon so long as the button presses after the whiff still occur within the command grab's frame window. It's noticeable too, even offline, if you piano the inputs properly.

    I wouldn't imagine the whiff would be realistically cancellable into other specials since the command input would have to be different. (Anyone with a programmable controller, feel free to verify this.) It may well be the case (and this is purely speculation, mind you) that cancelling his whiff follows rules similar to how cancelling many normals works; it would have to be within the first five frames or so of start-up. This would allow just perfectly for all six possible grabbing frames on a perfect piano if the first input whiffed as well.

    The thing is when I try to get an SPD cancel with my programmable controller, there is none. It's possible that there's some key component that's off, but I can assure you that high frequency pianoing by itself is insufficient.
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  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    That's...odd! Are you attempting it off a standard tick attempt, or during an open wakeup situation? The more you can describe the scenario, the better the chance we could get to the bottom of it.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    That's...odd! Are you attempting it off a standard tick attempt, or during an open wakeup situation? The more you can describe the scenario, the better the chance we could get to the bottom of it.

    Off hitting ticks. For example jab -> typhoon.
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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    try off the wake up without ticks. I think thats when I've seen it when its happened.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Just to clear up some misinformation, ST Honda's loop is not risk free. The thing that makes Hawk's loop risk free is the safe jump. Without that, you can be reversaled or thrown out of the ground tick.
    standing[/URL] neutral jab, far crouching short kick, far crouching jab, [URL=" , all safe meaty attacks against reversal attacks against a good portion of the cast. The only one of those that directly loses to anything is close crouching jab against reversal throws, but close crouching jab with dragon punch is the mostly useful against Sagat and no one else so there's no point in going for it unless you have Sagat cornered.

    Most of the time with Hawk you need the safe jump (possible built in dragon punch), hit-confirm low jab, negative edge 360, and then another built in dragon punch or delayed dragon punch. This throw loop is about as difficult execution wise as anything you'll find in any fighting game but it's also quite possibly the most satisfying thing to master in all of SFII. N.Ryu, Honda, Boxer, Guile, Cammy, Fei, and Claw, are who to use the full loop on (or a small variation of the loop). Dictator can't be jumped in on (he's the only character who can simply jump or even mash out of the throw loop reliably) so you have to use a far meaty that is out of Dictator's throw range (Lt. Dan showed me this but it's really hard to do consistently and I've seen the Japanese barely use it). Dhalsim just do a jumping attack, one or two standing or crouching light attacks, and then throw. Zangief you use a jumping attack and then mix in your ticks into either throw or bait an SPD and counter with a dive (never bait and counter an SPD with a dragon punch because if you are wrong you will get wrecked). Of course diving on Zangief in ST gets you a knockdown and HDR it gets you nothing direct.

    DJ, Ken, O.Shotos, Sagat, O.Sagat, and Chun, they don't have strong answers for safe meaty into negative edge walking 360. Sagat has specific throw loops that are very, very hard to use. DJ has specific loops as well that start with safe meaty attacks and you can even throw him out of his reversals. With Blanka you can't safe jump or safe meaty, you just go for an unsafe meaty usually, then negative edge and dragon punch in one motion. Hawk mirrors are entirely guessing games.

    And I can already see posts from the HDR camp saying that Hawk in ST was "one dimensional" and that you had to throw loop to win. touch of death[/URL] and [URL=" . Not to mention that O.Hawk has some of the best normals in the game and N.Hawk has a massive damage super throw.

    Might as well throw these in when people are going to start claiming that walking and standing 720s in ST are impossible with Hawk in ST and that HDR was a true step forward for Hawk (and not fifty steps backwards).



    Blitzfu, It's hard to blame someone for being wrong when they truly believe they are right. But when you are consistently wrong over a long period, maybe it's time to take a step back and reevaluate everything it is that you think you know.
    His neutral standing jab is great against most character's wakeup options, but leaves him too far to grab without taking an unsafe step forward. The main point was that Honda cannot do the loop without risk.
    You think the regular safe jump throw loop is hard? You actually can do a safe far meaty into safe walking 360 with Hawk (not against Honda though if that's what you meant). Watch more Japanese Hawk play and see that they step forward, negative edge, and then end in defensive crouch off of safe meaty attacks. Sako created the safe meaty into safe walking 360 several years ago but I hadn't seen anyone use it on anyone but Chun until last year when VIPER basically started rewriting the book on N.Hawk.

    - - -

    Edit: I see some other wrong information in this thread.

    I tested R.Hawk's negative edge 720 with a step sequencer and got a whiff animation every single time. If you do a negative edge 720 on the PS3 version then you should always get a whiff. If you do a 720, negative edge, and get nothing, it means that you failed to 720 properly. So if you tick, negative edge 720 with R.Hawk, and your opponent reverses and you end in defensive crouch...that was not an option select, that was HDR's new 720 motion causing nothing to come out at all, had your opponent literally done nothing then you wouldn't have gotten a 720. I tested this quite thoroughly a year ago, so anyone claiming that R.Hawk's 720 doesn't whiff needs to program a controller and post their results and methods.

    Also I've seen R.Hawk's whiff cancel into another whiff before. The new whiff 360 has supposedly one active frame. But I've played offline matches where I can clearly see Hawk's whiff animation changing into a successful command throw. Only two ways for that to be possible, R.Hawk has more than one active grab frame, or the command throw can be stacked. Again I see this all on the PS3 version so it might be different on the 360.
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  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    standing[/URL] neutral jab, far crouching short kick, far crouching jab, [URL=" , all safe meaty attacks against reversal attacks against a good portion of the cast. The only one of those that directly loses to anything is close crouching jab against reversal throws, but close crouching jab with dragon punch is the mostly useful against Sagat and no one else so there's no point in going for it unless you have Sagat cornered.

    I'm not sure if you've seen me play hawk lately, but I've nearly mastered the loop using various normals, most common being neutral standing jab, crouching jab, and crouching short. From what I've found so far, only far neutral standing jab is a safe poke on wakeup. It will stuff or whiff on everyones reversal, including blankas. Everything else has been reversaled, or has left me too far for a safe spd attempt, but it's possible I just haven't mastered those yet. Sagat is very annoying because of how he bounces in the corner, makes it hard or impossible to get into position on time. Crouching jab option select dp is too risky because if they block, you dp and can be punished easily.
    Most of the time with Hawk you need the safe jump (possible built in dragon punch), hit-confirm low jab, negative edge 360, and then another built in dragon punch or delayed dragon punch. This throw loop is about as difficult execution wise as anything you'll find in any fighting game but it's also quite possibly the most satisfying thing to master in all of SFII. N.Ryu, Honda, Boxer, Guile, Cammy, Fei, and Claw, are who to use the full loop on (or a small variation of the loop). Dictator can't be jumped in on (he's the only character who can simply jump or even mash out of the throw loop reliably) so you have to use a far meaty that is out of Dictator's throw range (Lt. Dan showed me this but it's really hard to do consistently and I've seen the Japanese barely use it). Dhalsim just do a jumping attack, one or two standing or crouching light attacks, and then throw. Zangief you use a jumping attack and then mix in your ticks into either throw or bait an SPD and counter with a dive (never bait and counter an SPD with a dragon punch because if you are wrong you will get wrecked). Of course diving on Zangief in ST gets you a knockdown and HDR it gets you nothing direct.

    I agree with hawk being the most satisfying character to play. He has boosted my interest in ST significantly. As for characters that can escape the loop midscreen, because of the way they bounce or their reversal properties, I would list fei, cammy, dhalsim, claw, sagat, gief, guile, ken, and blanka. With honda, I get a lot of trades with jump jab option select dp. If they block my jab, I often find that I'm too far away after a low jab to spd. Honda's grabbable hitbox is far back, very annoying. There's a very tiny sweetspot that puts u out of range of his grab yet still within range of yours. Very hard to get this consistently.

    If you have any insight that could help any of my current difficulties, I'll try them out this sunday on the dontblowthis stream.

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    good info VR4, I play both games so I can appreciate this post.

    I can tick 720 the same way in ST as I can in HDR. The last arsenal to finish my ST hawk is the walking 720. Its coming along but the percentage is no where near usable in game yet.

    PS. The whiffed 720 should not have a whiff animation. I would like to have someone test this on a macro control as well.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    I'm not sure if you've seen me play hawk lately, but I've nearly mastered the loop using various normals, most common being neutral standing jab, crouching jab, and crouching short.
    Considering that we just played on GGPO I can safely say that I've seen your Hawk. :woot: I know a lot of HDR players think that they know all about ST and Hawk in general, I've seen the delusional posts too many times, but there isn't a Hawk player outside of Japan who is as good as Damdai. If there was a Hawk player in the HDR scene as good as Damdai then he would be very high profile.
    From what I've found so far, only far neutral standing jab is a safe poke on wakeup. It will stuff or whiff on everyones reversal, including blankas.
    I think with Hawk that if you go for far meaty jab against Blanka he can just mash hop and get away cleanly (unless he is cornered). I'll try to contact Lt.Dan or VIPER or some other Hawk player and see what I can figure out.
    Everything else has been reversaled, or has left me too far for a safe spd attempt, but it's possible I just haven't mastered those yet. Sagat is very annoying because of how he bounces in the corner, makes it hard or impossible to get into position on time.
    It's not how he bounces that is the problem with Sagat. He has the fastest rising animation from being knocked down in the game and he has one of if not the tallest standing hitbox in the game. Combine those two together and most characters can't jump fast enough and come down in time to get a safe jump or even a jumping attack that is low to the ground.
    Crouching jab option select dp is too risky because if they block, you dp and can be punished easily.
    It's also impossibly difficult to execute. I faced a few Japanese Hawk players on GGPO last week and they basically failed every attempt. I've never been able to do it three times in a row and even twice in a row is almost miraculous for me.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Considering that we just played on GGPO I can safely say that I've seen your Hawk. :woot: I know a lot of HDR players think that they know all about ST and Hawk in general, I've seen the delusional posts too many times, but there isn't a Hawk player outside of Japan who is as good as Damdai. If there was a Hawk player in the HDR scene as good as Damdai then he would be very high profile.

    who are those delusional hawk players?
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    Ah shit..    
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  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Anyone who is not damdai or glorious japanese obv.

    Also that is just vf4, he makes up opinions of other people and then argues against that as his basis, same as always
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I almost fed the troll. silly me.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    Sagat is very annoying because of how he bounces in the corner, makes it hard or impossible to get into position on time. Crouching jab option select dp is too risky because if they block, you dp and can be punished easily.

    You should be able to 'dp install' on meaty attacks more or less the same way that it works on jump ins. Though you'd have to be a little careful that you don't 'kara' cancel or whiff. Then you'll only get the dp if they reversal.

    Blanka cannot be safe jumped, but his reversals all have poor priority, so IIRC he's vulnerable to 'unsafe' advances with jumping fierce punch.

    Also, crouching MK should provide more frame advantage as a meaty attack than crouching lk and recovers just as fast - though it will cause more pushback, and may require more distant spacing to be safe.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I tested R.Hawk's negative edge 720 with a step sequencer and got a whiff animation every single time. If you do a negative edge 720 on the PS3 version then you should always get a whiff. If you do a 720, negative edge, and get nothing, it means that you failed to 720 properly.

    I confirmed this to be wrong. If you do the 720 properly on neg edge and the other player jumps or reverses, nothing will come out just like in ST. It will not whiff. 100%
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    Ah shit..    
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  • Aqua SnakeAqua Snake Never Outskilled... Joined: Posts: 1,328
    I confirmed this to be wrong. If you do the 720 properly on neg edge and the other player jumps or reverses, nothing will come out just like in ST. It will not whiff. 100%

    I decided to mess around with Hawk today with both the 720 and the shortcut motion using negative edge (And with the standard button press) and realized this is true. I originally thought 720 would give the whiff animation, but it doesn't!

    This is good news.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Also don't forget the whiff builds meter.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    The whiff building meter is more a gimmick than anything. You never want your opponent to know your building your super like that. I only use it to build super when I'm totally out of options.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I use the whiff all the time. it acts as a taunt and usually gets the other player to come at you, making he's options limited as he is advancing. "tomo" strategy's.

    ps. thanks aqua, I felt like I was talking crazy pills cuz no one believed me.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • mcw00tymcw00ty Joined: Posts: 92
    Zangief can already do that in ST, so T.Hawk now has that same ability. You have a certain window to press the button to activate an spd. If you press the button and whiff but still have time left in the window, you can press again and still get the spd.

    from Sirlin's forum regarding the "whiff but still command throw them" thing.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    zangief can do that? i know he has active grab frames, but i thought cancelling whiff into typhoon was a remix only thing with hawk.
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