720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    i think its a whiff glitch that originated from ST. I remember reading from another thread about this. originally I thought it was just roll back. but some other guys said they confirmed it was not roll back.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    I haven't been able to replicate the SPD cancel thing with my programmable controller.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    So I was right all along, the super doesn't whiff. Yet another reason to play this game on the 360.
  • Big OBig O Joined: Posts: 381
    Yeah the SPD whiff canceling thing is how Zangief's SPD has active frames. It technically doesn't actually grab on any frame except the first frame unless you press or release punch buttons. I confirmed it by tested it out in emulator (kawak's frame-by-frame mode in ST). If you try meaty grabbing the CPU set to jump, you will notice you can't grab them by timing the SPD early unless you mash buttons/piano (ps3 version).

    T. Hawk's super also has no whiff if done correctly on the ps3 too. I'm assuming whoever tried it on the ps3 did 720's instead of the new motion.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    on the topic of ticking into super, i've found an anomoly in the way hawk's 720 behaves in remix.

    i've been playing a lot of hawk lately in st, and hearing about how his super doesn't have a whiff animation in remix, i got excited with the possibility of having his crouch jab x2 --> super still be safe on reversal if it were negative edged. unfortunately, this isn't the case. i can do this on an st cab, emulator, and classic mode probably 8 or 9 times out of 10, but when i went into remix to try it out, it just wouldn't happen. out of like 20 or so attempts, absolutely zero worked. i didn't get a whiff after the 720, which is cool but pointless because for some reason the game just won't let the super come out. i tried it on both sides, rotating in both directions.

    to clarify the motion (from 1p side):

    1) start in crouch-block, tick with jab
    2) rotate 360 clockwise, returning to crouch-block (jab animation keeps him grounded)
    3) tick another jab, holding it down along with strong and fierce
    4) rotate 360 clockwise, again returning to crouch block
    5) release all 3 punches to get the negative edged super

    papercut or jiggly, throw me a bone here
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    don't do old 360 motion in HDR. try this instead. tick, tick, forward up position roll back to down back position twice then end in back position. if the super doesn't come out you will end up walking back or stand blocking back. if you want to end in down back position after the second tick start from up position and do 2 half circles and end in down back position.

    the super can be done with 2 half circles forward ending in forward jump position or 2 half circles back ending in back jump position. you can control where you end your motion by starting the motion at different angles.

    even though the game says you can do hawks super using the old 360 and 720 motions, I don't' think this is true. I think using the old commands will screw things up.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    i see, i'll give that a try. it's weird that the 720 motion will work on a jump in, though.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    The only way I know of to be able to do a 720 is by starting and ending in up. Otherwise, I'm pretty certain there's no other way of doing it the old way. So with that being said, you cannot NE a Super in dowb+back in HDR. The closest you can get to being safe is doing :hcf:x2, and holding back while releasing punch. You'll block standing.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    The only way I know of to be able to do a 720 is by starting and ending in up. Otherwise, I'm pretty certain there's no other way of doing it the old way. So with that being said, you cannot NE a Super in dowb+back in HDR. The closest you can get to being safe is doing :hcf:x2, and holding back while releasing punch. You'll block standing.

    No reversal i can think of hits low so why does that matter ?
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    Only actual reversal that hits low that I can think of is Cammy's Super (I think).

    But other than that, I don't know how negligible it is that you can't block in down+back.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    you're right jiggly, HDR doesn't take the commands I suggested in my previous post. you end up jumping instead.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    i guess i'm out of luck. aqua snack is able to safe negative edge the super off of a safe jab jump-in, i wonder exactly how he's doing it.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I know how, I'll show you in person. its pretty easy actually. hard to explain how ever.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    we'll put in some work in the lab tomorrow, i got some new shit to show you.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,204
    So I already knew Bison's juggling MP bullshit rapes Hawk whenever he leaves the ground, but last night I was playing a really good Ryu (Ken Mexicano) that proved to me over and over that Ryu's jumping MP has the same effect (beats Hawk's jumping LP, hawkdive, etc). What do the Timothy Hawk masters do when they are playing Ryus that posses this knowledge? Kind of throws off my "neutral jump outside of sweep range until I get a good angle to dive" strategy.

    Thankfully I rarely run into Ryus that know how handy that damn MP juggle is...
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    as tempting as jumping is, you'll realize that putting out solid ground pressure is the way to go. bait that sweep and stuff those pokes. jump-ins are cool when you score a knockdown, preferably with a crossup, but hawk's ground game is too sick. i win a lot more matches when i force myself not to be jump happy. you gotta make THEM feel uncomfortable being in your ground space.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,204
    I have a decent ground game with hawk, but against master zoners it is really damn hard to get in without dat hawk dive or neutral jump antics.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    if you're trying to dive on reaction to fireballs you gotta stay just outside of their jump arc. sounds obvious i guess. otherwise if you're just outside of sweep range you have a lot of shit to stuff most everything they have. i throw out an occassional crouch strong for the guys that like to mash on hurricane. throwing out random ass roundhouse hurricanes seems to be a new trend.
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    St.MP, St.RH, and psychic DP through fireball are key against Ryu and Ken.
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,224
    i guess i'm out of luck. aqua snack is able to safe negative edge the super off of a safe jab jump-in, i wonder exactly how he's doing it.
    I came for this :lol:

    Against shotos I also like to use st. mk as a fake and then go into sweep, though that can be applied to almost anyone.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    I came for this :lol:

    Against shotos I also like to use st. mk as a fake and then go into sweep, though that can be applied to almost anyone.

    You could always substitute sweep for something a little more damaging. Like this.





    No harm intended from me posting an ST video in here fellas. I just wanted to show whats posible in match. Im also a little tippsy. I already have to pee. Few more and Im gonna want sex. Few more after that and the wife will be pissed.


    *edit*

    This video was givin to me by bmn. Full credit to him. It's from some Jap T-Hawk players blog. Thnks big homie.
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,204
    Oh my god that has nasty range. Some day I'll learn to use Hawk super effectively lol.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • KacomKacom Joined: Posts: 268
    Im also a little tippsy. I already have to pee. Few more and Im gonna want sex. Few more after that and the wife will be pissed.

    Hahahaha too much info brotha.
  • Sweet PoisonSweet Poison Knowledge is power. Joined: Posts: 981


    I thought I would put this here since it is a T.Hawk thread. Some nasty and nice walk up supers, etc.
    My hunger's never satisfied. Knowledge is what fuels me.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,204
    Scary stuff. I'd probably use more sweeps when Hawk is close and use a lot less psychic SRKs. Tough match that I don't see a lot.

    Also, I'd probably try reversaling more on wake up since he tried to meaty/jump in on you like every single time you were on the ground (something you typically don't do to sagat).
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • Doktor42Doktor42 Joined: Posts: 78
    Hey, I'm fairly new to T.Hawk in HD Remix, but I'm really hoping to main him after liking him so much in SF4.

    I apologize for not reading the entire thread, 21 pages seemed daunting, so hopefully I don't ask a repeat question.

    From what I saw in that video, when T.Hawk jumped he did LP, is that good for stuffing Anti-airs like Dragon Punches?

    How easy is it to throw somebody out of block stun, that vid had him look like he was throwing right out of block stun, but for all I know he waited a few seconds. Is there a specific poke that's good to use to set up tick throws?

    Are there any big combos for T.Hawk outside of "Body Splash > S.MP > H.TB"?

    Any other random tips you can give to a newbie T.Hawk?

    Thanks in advance for any advice or help, I'd like to stop getting beat down by Ryu all the time. xD
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    if you go to this website: http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/ , you can see the hitboxes of moves, which shows you that the jump jab is very high priority.

    Crouch jab is probably your best poke, he looks like he is throwing him out of blockstun because he has played hawk for a long time so he knows the timing very well
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    From what I saw in that video, when T.Hawk jumped he did LP, is that good for stuffing Anti-airs like Dragon Punches?

    No it doesn't stuff DPs, but it's his best jumping normal and has very good priority. Other good jumping normals are Fierce and Forward.

    How easy is it to throw somebody out of block stun, that vid had him look like he was throwing right out of block stun, but for all I know he waited a few seconds. Is there a specific poke that's good to use to set up tick throws?

    You can't actually throw somebody who's in blockstun, you have to wait a split second and time your throw so that it happens right as blockstun ends. With a little practice it's not very hard to get the timing down. You can use any normal (or even special like Dive into throw) to setup a tick throw, but most Hawk players use crouching Jab or standing Jab.

    Are there any big combos for T.Hawk outside of "Body Splash > S.MP > H.TB"?

    There's also Splash, st Forward, DP and Jump Forward, cr Jab, st Jab, DP. There are online FAQs that can give you a whole list of combos to try: HDR Combo FAQ
    Any other random tips you can give to a newbie T.Hawk?


    Thanks in advance for any advice or help, I'd like to stop getting beat down by Ryu all the time. xD


    Good luck, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, there are plenty of good Hawk players in this forum.
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 323
    Bumping. I have two questions about Hawk I hope I can be helped with.

    1) How can Hawk defend against Dhalsim? I'm just sorta playing around with Hawk but it's no fun because I get locked down hard by allmanner of stretch attacks. Even if I manage to avod them or counter, I get set on fire with his torch (up and forward both). I can't find a strategy around him.

    2) On the opposite end, Hawks jumping jab is stuffing everything from my Chun; far standing m.k as well as h.k, medium and heavy punch, obviously Upkicks too (Deejay tripped me out of them with Medium crouch kick once!). Ah yes, it also beats jumping light kick and heavy, probably medium also. Notsure about jump punches but we'll see...
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    edited July 2014
    vs Dhalsim:
    You can beat or trade his long range limbs with crouching Strong.
    You have to advance slowly on him and block his limbs and once in a while throw out a cr Strong.
    If he does fire or flame you have to quickly do the Condor Dive or jump on him with j Fierce (not the splash).
    If timed right his j Fierce can beat his limbs and slides.
    The goal is to get him into the corner and tick Typhoon him mercilessly.
    If you are having trouble getting in on him, you have to intimidate him by doing Jab DP once in awhile, which will beat his limbs and go through the fires.
    Don't overdo the DP tho, just make him a little scared so you can get in.
    A good way to start the round is walk up and do a quick sweep or jump on him with Fierce.


    vs Chun:
    To beat Hawk's jump Jab, use close Forward if he's right on top of you.
    If his jump is a little farther out, use sweep. Far forward also works, but it usually trades, which is fine. Time it late.
    You can beat or trade the Condor Dive with far Forward too, but time it early.
    If you have Upkicks charged you can beat jump Jab and splash, but you have to time it very late, just before he lands, and always use the Short version.
    His jump Jab is very good in air to air vs Chun so don't try to use neutral jump kicks.
    Instead jump back with Forward, and if you have to neutral jump use her jump Fierce.
    The game plan is to force him to jump by throwing fireballs.
    Once he starts jumping, stop throwing fireballs and keep him out with cr Forward, cr sweep and Lightning Legs.
    Once in a while you can surprise him by walking up and throwing him or jumping on him, but do it rarely.
    A good way to start the round is walk up cr Forward. If he jumps, close Forward or sweep. If he doesn't jump, use fireballs and LL.
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 323
    edited July 2014
    blitzfu wrote: »
    vs Dhalsim:
    You can beat or trade his long range limbs with crouching Strong.
    You have to advance slowly on him and block his limbs and once in a while throw out a cr Strong.
    If he does fire or flame you have to quickly do the Condor Dive or jump on him with j Fierce (not the splash).
    If timed right his j Fierce can beat his limbs and slides.
    The goal is to get him into the corner and tick Typhoon him mercilessly.
    If you are having trouble getting in on him, you have to intimidate him by doing Jab DP once in awhile, which will beat his limbs and go through the fires.
    Don't overdo the DP tho, just make him a little scared so you can get in.
    A good way to start the round is walk up and do a quick sweep or jump on him with Fierce.

    Okay, I'll try. Do I just psychic some cr.strongs? I can't imagine reacting to those sneaky stretch hits.

    You mentioned jumping on him with Fierce to start. What do I do about up fire? Does that beat it?
    blitzfu wrote:
    vs Chun:
    To beat Hawk's jump Jab, use close Forward if he's right on top of you.
    If his jump is a little farther out, use sweep. Far forward also works, but it usually trades, which is fine. Time it late.
    You can beat or trade the Condor Dive with far Forward too, but time it early.
    If you have Upkicks charged you can beat jump Jab and splash, but you have to time it very late, just before he lands, and always use the Short version.
    His jump Jab is very good in air to air vs Chun so don't try to use neutral jump kicks.
    Instead jump back with Forward, and if you have to neutral jump use her jump Fierce.
    The game plan is to force him to jump by throwing fireballs.
    Once he starts jumping, stop throwing fireballs and keep him out with cr Forward, cr sweep and Lightning Legs.
    Once in a while you can surprise him by walking up and throwing him or jumping on him, but do it rarely.
    A good way to start the round is walk up cr Forward. If he jumps, close Forward or sweep. If he doesn't jump, use fireballs and LL.

    Sweep will work if he's jumping in from far? Feels like I tried that (for example, it works on Ryu almost always but not so much on Ken). Far standing forward doesn't seem to work on jumping jab either, nor roundhouse. Could I just be timing is wrong or something?

    That definitely works, the far standing forward vs Condor Dive. Lovely trick, usually grounds decent Hawks through fear but good ones resort to jump Jab.

    Upkicks has beat Spash around 2% of the time in my experience, always very shocked when it works (I stubbornly do it evey time) and not once have I seen it beat Jab. It seems to fail consistently to it, much like Blanka's jumping light kick or whichever kick it is Vega uses when he jumps straight up in front of Chun (luckily it doesn't work at an angle).

    Haha, yeah, learned that the hardway, that her jumping light kick loses air to air. The easiest matches for me are ones where from most angles that attack wins. So neutral jump fierce? Thank you, I haven't tried that yet. Only recently have I begun using jumping punches, very effective in some situations instead of jumping l.k, which is just force of habit for me.

    Okay, thank you very much for the info! Hopefully I can apply it correctly. Sorry for some of the points I question, they just haven't worked in my experience (maybe it's me, or lag or something). I think I can fare better as Hawk vs Sim now, and as Chun vs Hawk. Also, sorry for the new questions.

    Been a long time since I saw you on PSN! Still around? Looking forward to playing you again sometime.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Yes, you have to psychic some cr Strongs.
    Upflame will beat j Fierce, but if you start with sweep he will be wary of starting with Upflame, which allows you to start with j Fierce the next round.
    Mix it up.

    Chun's sweep will beat j Jab but only from the farthest range, meaning Hawk has to land on the tip of Chun's boot.
    For closer jumps far Forward will sometimes beat it, sometimes trade and sometimes get stuffed.
    It depends on timing and range. But it does work.
    And close Forward always beats j Jab when he's right above you.
    Roundhouse never works in my experience, only if you do it super early before he even jumps.

    Short Upkicks will always beat Hawk's j Jab and splash (and Zangief's splash) 100% of the time.
    As long as he's right on top of you, and you time it late, and you do the Short Upkick.
    Short Upkick also beats Blanka's diagonal j Short, but it's no good vs neutral jump attacks, because like you said it doesn't go up on an angle.

    You can catch me on XBL. Good luck.



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