720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    yeah it was me, but KFK, it's cuz i like the band Slayer, so i just made it an alias or what ever, anyway, i do more reading than i do posting and i hope to have some good matches with you guys

    i've had a good ammount of trouble with guile, he angers me to no end, i haven't played too many Dee Jay's though

    Akuma is annoying as balls too, i feel all of his normals out prioritize me on the ground or in the air, and his DP is just stupid beyond all belief, as long as i can get him to mess up it's not a bad match at all though

    im posting a tourney for any who are interested, prize is a SF2 CE arcade cabinet
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ill post a list of who can be meatied with a cross up d+fp after a RH throw. RH throw, hold uf, meaty cross up spalsh, s.mk xx dp ownz. And if they block, tick again.

    Something I like to do mid screen instead of 360. If the corner 360 all day lol. Also seems to be some situations where after a dive you are in 360 range, we should make a list.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Cross up fp, instant condor dive leave you in range to 360 vs chun
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    gridman i dunno how long it'll be till i get on, my stick is totally fucked up, i can't pull shit off. i may still play, but i'll be uber bad, sometimes with blanka, blanka balls wouldn't come out, neither would electricity..... don't even try a 360 it ain't happening
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Arcade stick execution trouble.
    Is this your first stick? I remember cursing and doubting if my investment was good, however hang in there buddy - you'll get accustomed fast if you want to.

    I couldn't execute anything but 360's, until I got an octagonal restrictor in my stick.
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    nah i've had it for a while, since like august, it worked great before, but one day i got really pissed off after a series of events due to lag on SC4 and threw it against my wall hahahahaha, ever since then it's been on a decline, and for like the past 2 days it's been going in the crapper, im gonna just replace the stick and the buttons wither better quality after the holiday, but i was ticking really well before, not missing, but now i can't even get a reversal DP off and it just gets me mad so i punch the housing, that prolly doesn't help the situation either. and im not getting mad because i'm losing, it's because i'm losing to something i can't control, a janky stick, or unbearable lag (much more of the first)
  • MURPHAGATOR!MURPHAGATOR! Go! Go! Zeppeli! Joined: Posts: 676
    Ill post a list of who can be meatied with a cross up d+fp after a RH throw. RH throw, hold uf, meaty cross up spalsh, s.mk xx dp ownz.

    This got me curious, so I decided to try it out myself. As far as I can tell, you can only do that to shotos and blanka, and sort of sim. Shotos get crossed up every time, but blanka is a bit odd. Against him, it seems like if you are doing the throw when you are on your starting side, you can get the splash to cross up if you do it early, and to not cross up by doing it later in the jump, but if you are doing the throw when on the opponents side, you can NEVER get it to cross up.

    I have to test this particular oddity against more characters, but as of right now it looks like just blanka for side specific crossups.

    In addition, against Blanka and Sim, you can walk forward just a hair before jumping to make the splash (always) cross up and still be pretty meaty.

    Edit: Misunderstood what was happening at first.

    Edit again: More stuff.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    This got me curious, so I decided to try it out myself. As far as I can tell, you can only do that to shotos and blanka, and sort of sim. Shotos get crossed up every time, but blanka is a bit odd. Against him, it seems like if you are doing the throw when you are on your starting side, you can get the splash to cross up if you do it early, and to not cross up by doing it later in the jump, but if you are doing the throw when on the opponents side, you can NEVER get it to cross up.

    I have to test this particular oddity against more characters, but as of right now it looks like just blanka for side specific crossups.

    In addition, against Blanka and Sim, you can walk forward just a hair before jumping to make the splash (always) cross up and still be pretty meaty.

    Edit: Misunderstood what was happening at first.

    Edit again: More stuff.

    I tend to do j. mk more than d+fierce after RH throw
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I tend to do j. mk more than d+fierce after RH throw

    That works also, I just go for most damage and splash has a sick hitbox.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Is negative edging Typhoons with more than one button really that useful any more? I've come to think the opposite, since from my point of view it's easier sticking to one button when you negative edge Typhoon now, fierce.

    Back in ST I'd release fierce~strong with a noticeable gap between the two, so if lag/ too fast release made the fierce not register it granted me a strong Typhoon.
    This however will backfire in HD Remix, it has for me at least.
  • LogosLogos Mountain Beast Joined: Posts: 754
    No real point with the whiff animation.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The whiff doesn't end Hawk...yes it's frustrating if you played vanilla ST and learned the 100% win .

    Honestly there was and is one person really who can all of the time pull it off, Toutanki.

    Even K and Mayakon had problems being perfect. We have been given a lot of life here with the new Hawk. O. Hawk was way better than N.Hawk...but now we have the best of Hawk all together.

    Hawks super should be a deterrent enough to play the mind games. I know not everyone here agrees with my liking of the new dive...but it get's me closer a lot...where I NEED to be.

    Hawk is badass now...he may not be top tier but fuck, without re-hauling the whole character, he is for sure legit now.

    Ask the top players...ask them what Sirlin has been doing to them with Hawk in private rooms so far. Hawk is legit now. I know a lot of people here don't really want him to be so they can say they play a bad character...but facts, he's nasty.

    We will learn the nuances of his new game. May take awhile, but he's going to be a force in the hands of the skilled that's for sure.

    Just believe Hawkanites...he is improved and dear god he is more dangerous than ever.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    guiles cr.mk is such horse shit. i mean, the hitbox is so dumb. ive had guiles to xup lk cr.jab x2 cr.mk and i reversal dp'd and the cr.mk went straight through my dp and hawk went right up and got flashkicked. please please please please please improve the hitbox on this thing. It happens on more than just guiles cr.mk than you think.

    other than that (which has been there since vanilla st :P) and the new dive, R.Hawk is dirty buff and i love it.

    one note i dont know if you hawks know: there is a LOT of time for you to do the 360 input. like, you can do hcb, walk forward a step or two, and hit punch and the 360 will come out. ive hit a few people with things like j.fierce (hits) [do one 720 motion in the air] land finish motion and walk forward 2 steps, hit punch, 720.


    i fell in love with j.fierce, move is gdlk
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ya grid that damn mk from Guile is terrible...it seriously should have been fixed.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Just some stuff to do vs people good at reversals.

    1. Try to always mix up your 360 timing, ex:

    j.lp then 360

    j.lp, s.lp then 360

    c.lp x1-3 then 360

    2. do a delayed dp, ex. s.mk, wait a split second, then dp. This will generally beat out their dp, but is probably his riskest option.

    3. Ive done this alot to good ryu players when they have super since they are generally good at reversing. Just fake tick, then jump up and 360 their recovery.

    4. Fake tick, then walk back. Dp whiffs, then 360 recovery.

    Now with midscreen 360's:

    Some characters I have timed a dive to where I can meaty c.lk then tick again. Slower wake up speed I guess.

    Other characters the dive recovers around the same time. Here you either immediately dp, or 360/720.

    Corner stuff:

    Pretty much you win, just repeat meaty s.mk, then 360. If you are getting dp'd out, you might be doing 360 late or they are good at reversing, see up top. No need to do j.lp loops since their is no more safe option select 360/block.

    Reversal 360:

    Try to end motion at db. That way you wont get hit by lows if in block stun. Ex. bison doing s.lk/throw or s.lk/c.mk.

    720:

    If its like ST it grabs some dps, but you should always land this when close (duh)

    KKK Condor:

    So many people try to jump or swing after hit/block. Just lp dp. Once they get scared, walk up 360. Or repeat another instant Condor.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I really love how fucked up ticking has become. Im timing my ticks exactly like ST and people are able to JUMP out of them REVERSAL throw out of them ELECTRICTY/HANDS/MASH move out of them and other random shit that should not work at all. people saying that nothing has changed (remixed mode, i havent tried classic too much) never played hawk seriously in ST
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You are just mistiming it if they are mashing out, reversing it isnt impossible. Alos they are jumping b4 you reversal, they cant actually jump out of the grab its instant, and yes you will still get a reversal message. Also take into account you are online. Ive had minimal problems ticking.
  • lseelbalseelba You must defeat ShengLong Joined: Posts: 870
    I think T Hawk is not worth learning online. The timing on his tick throw is so precise that if you learn it online then play offline you are going to be screwed.
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    You are just mistiming it if they are mashing out, reversing it isnt impossible. Alos they are jumping b4 you reversal, they cant actually jump out of the grab its instant, and yes you will still get a reversal message. Also take into account you are online. Ive had minimal problems ticking.

    Also the timing for the fierce 360 is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY different than the jab 360. They arent jumping before i reversal. Theyre jumping from a cr.jab.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    I think T Hawk is not worth learning online. The timing on his tick throw is so precise that if you learn it online then play offline you are going to be screwed.

    Well I can certainly agree about learning him in HD Remix, since most of us PS3 users are lagging or having connection problems. However playing him on GGPO or 2DF is a really different feeling, not only is the game different but versus people with a decent ping, your Typhoons won't magically vanish.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Also the timing for the fierce 360 is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY different than the jab 360. They arent jumping before i reversal. Theyre jumping from a cr.jab.

    I only use hp version, online also. I never had that problem. Both grabs are not jumpable unless you are mistiming it or some glitch that makes it jumpable.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I know they arent suppose to be jumpable. What im trying to say is that the timing for a tick has changed. Hp version you have to like legit wait a whole second then do it.
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Online even on ggpo SPD like moves are always jumpable, well not 100% but with online especially with fast jumpers like Chun/Bison/Vega its a lot easier to jump than try and reversal the command throw.

    Today I was watching some Mikado streamed matches, man there was one T.Hawk that was very good with the Typhoon and super, he was always doing it at Max range (neutral S.jab hit distance).
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I know they arent suppose to be jumpable. What im trying to say is that the timing for a tick has changed. Hp version you have to like legit wait a whole second then do it.

    I just just realized my comment hold no wieght, I don't play Hawk in vanilla ST, so I wouldn't noticed a difference, I just know the only time they jump out is if I mess up and get a fp or something. Stupid ass pad.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Also after rh throw, you can walk under some characters or do meaty jumping jab ala ken. Then 360 from there. Hawk is so fun. I love having no health then getting one knockdown and winning vs someone with full health XD.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Today I was watching some Mikado streamed matches, man there was one T.Hawk that was very good with the Typhoon and super, he was always doing it at Max range (neutral S.jab hit distance).

    I'm pretty convinced the N.Hawk you're referring to is Inomata, this guy can walk-in 360 like Mayakon. He is insanely aggressive and pretty much the most innovative and different N.Hawk right now.
    Komoda vs. Inomata is a very entertaining match, a must watch.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I'm pretty convinced the N.Hawk you're referring to is Inomata, this guy can walk-in 360 like Mayakon. He is insanely aggressive and pretty much the most innovative and different N.Hawk right now.
    Komoda vs. Inomata is a very entertaining match, a must watch.



    dirty

    absolutely dirty
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I just just realized my comment hold no wieght, I don't play Hawk in vanilla ST, so I wouldn't noticed a difference, I just know the only time they jump out is if I mess up and get a fp or something. Stupid ass pad.

    Yeah man, Ive been playing hawk since Ive started ST. I dont care what Sirlin or anyone says, timing FEELS alot different than good ol st. I mean i still do it 100%, props to sirlin for making a sick game and everything, but i dont care who you are, you cant sit there and look me in the eye and tell me the timing for ticks is the same (for hawk). it feels the same for gief. that whiff animation totally fucking changed shit. I cant tell you how many times ive seen the animation whiff and then all of a sudden grab them (and no, its not lag because its a very smooth animation and all fluid). The whiff animation as of right now, is really changing the way you tick with hawk.
  • LogosLogos Mountain Beast Joined: Posts: 754
    I actually agree with Gridman. Dunno what it is, but the timing for ticks just feels weird now.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Online, offline, or both?

    Anyway Honda is a bitch, I have to walk up dp to get a knock down, then from there I never can tick lol Idk what it is but vs honda I always get s.fp, never a whiff animation. Beats me.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    As far as remixed mode goes, both. I havent played much of classic
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sorta combined my old post with this.

    Just some stuff to do vs people good at reversals.

    1. Try to always mix up your 360 timing, ex:

    j.lp then 360

    j.lp, s.lp then 360

    c.lp x1-3 then 360

    2. do a delayed dp, ex. s.mk, wait a split second, then dp. This will generally beat out their dp, but is probably his riskest option.

    3. Ive done this alot to good ryu players when they have super since they are generally good at reversing. Just fake tick, then jump up and 360 their recovery.

    4. Fake tick, then walk back. Dp whiffs, then 360 recovery.




    Now with midscreen 360's:

    Some characters I have timed a dive to where I can meaty c.lk then tick again. Slower wake up speed I guess.

    Other characters the dive recovers around the same time. Here you either immediately dp, or 360/720.




    Corner stuff:

    Pretty much you win, just repeat meaty s.mk, then 360. If you are getting dp'd out, you might be doing 360 late or they are good at reversing, see up top. No need to do j.lp loops since their is no more safe option select 360/block.




    Reversal 360:

    Try to end motion at db. That way you wont get hit by lows if in block stun. Ex. bison doing s.lk/throw or s.lk/c.mk.




    720:

    If its like ST it grabs some dps, but you should always land this when close (duh)




    KKK Condor:

    So many people try to jump or swing after hit/block. Just lp dp. Once they get scared, walk up 360. Or repeat another instant Condor. I like to whiff j.hp to bait AA.




    HK Throw fun:

    Versus Shotos, or Blanka on his side (if he's 2nd player, he must be on 2nd player side on this a no go).

    HK throw, hold up, meaty Splash

    If it hits follow up with s.mk xx HP dp for dizzy.

    if blocked

    c.lk tick, HK throw (throw loop) or
    c.mk, 360/720

    Versus any other characters:

    hold up during throw, meaty j.lp, tick 360/720, add a standing lp to mix it up.

    meaty j.lp, hk throw

    walk forward a bit, let them get close to landing, x-up d+fp (wont be meaty)

    I don't like walk under shit too much online, but offline its really good.

    Hk throw, walk under, s.mk tick 360




    Normals:

    s.hk- Geez I love this, awesome damage, range and dizzy. Great to trade with fireballs (way in your favor), and punish dps. Start the round with this to trade vs fireball.

    c.hp- Imo, the best normal anti-air in the game. Beats anything Chun, Gief, Shotos do, Vega wall dives, all that shit. Anti-Cross up like hell. Beats lows, well at least I was beating cammy's c.mk with it.

    c.mk- I like to walk up and do these and occasional, condor. One thing I'll do on opponents wake up is c.mk, jump back condor to hit a dp and knock'em back down. Can link a c.lk after. Good meaty.

    s.mp- good ass poke with good range.

    c.lk- I like this tick, cause it has short range and 90% of the time you are in range to 360. Beats out Guile's c.mk.

    close s.mk- I think its his best meaty, gives good frame advantage, but sorta hard to tick after.

    c.mp- I use this alot to tick with cause it seems easy to me idk lol. Use this to tick vs Honda and you 360 whiffs if he standing lol.

    j.lp- godly hit box, main jump in.

    j.hp- good hit box, beat Blanka's electricity.




    I was successfully walking up 360 DJ and Guile's today. Shit makes me happy lol.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    id just like to say ragingstormx that in the corner, you cant just keep doing meaty cl.mk its really important to mix up ticks and be able to safe jump against every character (besides like akuma and i dont think you can against blanka since upball or whatever hits on first frame).

    also dont bother using cr.fp against vegas wall dives. easiest thing to do is just jump back jab.

    jump fp is such an awesome jump in. its even better goin air to air against some characters who can jump higher than you (like chun and vega). because you cant really see it unless you hit with it, but there is a huge hitbox above his head and it stuffs so much shit.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    id just like to say ragingstormx that in the corner, you cant just keep doing meaty cl.mk its really important to mix up ticks and be able to safe jump against every character (besides like akuma and i dont think you can against blanka since upball or whatever hits on first frame).

    also dont bother using cr.fp against vegas wall dives. easiest thing to do is just jump back jab.

    jump fp is such an awesome jump in. its even better goin air to air against some characters who can jump higher than you (like chun and vega). because you cant really see it unless you hit with it, but there is a huge hitbox above his head and it stuffs so much shit.

    Yeah i know just didnt write it XD
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    T.Hawk 101 - All these strategies are for O.Hawk and some work for aswell N.Hawk

    Be aware this is based on O.Hawk and N.Hawk, which means negative edge tactics are not feasible (god damn whiff), everything else is incredibly good.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/T._Hawk_(ST))
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4141634&postcount=10 = r3ko
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=1424723&postcount=3 = Drunken Master
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=1425924&postcount=7 = Crayfish
    http://super-turbo.net/data/ybh/hawk.html = Yoga Book Hyper T.Hawk section translated
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What normals does Hawk have to stuff a Psycho Crusher? Crouching jab doesn't seem consistent.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    it really isnt. i think (oddly enough) that f.jab is more consistent...i dont really recall to be honest but it stuffs so much shit it wouldnt surprise me. i bet neutral jab stuffs it..yeah actually now that i think about it, it should but its difficult because it isnt rapid fire.
  • MoxManiacMoxManiac Haggar!!! Joined: Posts: 343
    What about c.mp? I find it useful against blanka balls and headbutts. Haven't tested it against crusher though. I actually run across very few bisons online :/

    DP might actually be better since you'll get a knockdown if it does beat crusher.
    SSF4: Haggar | HDR: Haggar | 3s: Haggar | Tekken 6: Haggar | Smash Bros: Haggar
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    cr.mp will work but its hard to time. i dont use that to stuff torpedos and blanka balls..its too difficult. just mash cr.jab for those.
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    gridman is super good, he gave me the rape stick in the brown eye last night >.< it's really odd playing against T Hawk only because i don't play many at all, even though i got beat pretty badly i learned a lot of neat stuff, thanks for the matches man
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